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Mister Pittsburgh
04-28-2010, 07:28 AM
Sorry if already posted....

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic ... ma/2496843 (http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/Report_Big_Ben_Problems_Tied_To_Head_Trauma/2496843)

Report: Big Ben’s Drama Tied To Head Trauma?
Posted by Brooks on Apr. 26, 2010, 10:21am
Carl Prine of the PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW recently examined the possibility that Ben Roethlisberger’s alleged anti-social behavior could be connected to head trauma suffered during NFL games and as the result of a motorcycle accident.



People who suffer repeated head injuries often exhibit signs of aggression, childishness, impaired self-control, inappropriate sexual activity and alcohol abuse, according to the National Institutes of Health.

“Ben Roethlisberger is a guy with a lot of concussions,” said famed forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht. “It would be a very wise decision, a very appropriate one, for the NFL to test him for damage related to them. That’s being very fair to Ben. It’s conceivable to think that there is a possibility that those concussions have led to some behavioral issues.“

This isn’t the first time that unfortunate social behavior by Pittsburgh Steelers has been linked to brain injuries.

Post-mortem examinations of the brains of Steelers Terry Long, Justin Strzelczyk and Hall of Fame center Mike Webster found evidence of the syndrome chronic traumatic encephalopathy - a degenerative brain condition that affects cognition and player conduct, eventually leading to dementia.

With Roethlisberger’s documented head trauma, four concussions, 242 career sacks and a severe motorcycle accident, it’s hard to dismiss out of hand that it didn’t play a role in his antisocial behavior. But the problem with that idea is quantifying just how much Roethlisberger’s past brain injuries had to do with what happened March 5 in Milledgeville.

While doctors appear to be closing in on the emotional after-effects of NFL-wrought concussions, there’s still no direct linkage between specific brain injuries and specific behaviors.

Roethlisberger probably wouldn’t mind, at least legally, attributing his recent behavior to head injuries, but that prospect is an extremely dangerous one for the NFL. If hard medical evidence pointed to alleged criminal behavior as a result of NFL game play, you can imagine the social and financial impact it would have on the league.

Never has a sport been caught in such an ironic position. The more aggressive the NFL is about studying head injuries, the more likely the league will learn that the only way to avoid irreparable brain injury to players is to outlaw the violence that makes the sport so popular - and lucrative.

For that reason, the last thing the NFL would ever admit to publicly is that the very nature of its game not only leads to brain injury, but possible criminal behavior.

That means Roethlisberger’s six-game suspension isn’t likely to be reduced. At least as it pertains to any medical findings from NFL-affiliated doctors.

rpmpit
04-28-2010, 07:38 AM
This is an easy one to answer. Was he a doosh in high school and/or college? If so, you can't blame the head trauma.

My wife actually brought this up when the latest assault accusations came up. And I quote Mrs. Armpit, "That motorcycle accident really screwed him up!"

Mister Pittsburgh
04-28-2010, 07:56 AM
i have said the same thing. might be something to it. :2c

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-28-2010, 08:05 AM
This is an easy one to answer. Was he a doosh in high school and/or college? If so, you can't blame the head trauma.

My wife actually brought this up when the latest assault accusations came up. And I quote Mrs. Armpit, "That motorcycle accident really screwed him up!"

I've read quotes from his high school and college coaches, and teachers, that he was not a doosh at all, but a real nice guy.

And also quotes that when he first got to the Steelers and went out with the guys he just drank ice water.

And of course the "Play for Jesus" Sharpied in on his sneakers, and the crew cut.

As you might know, I'm all in favor of giving Ben one more chance. Having said that, the difference between the "old" Ben and the "new" Ben could be due to old-fashioned not handling fame and celebrity well - no need to bring head trauma into it.

steelblood
04-28-2010, 08:11 AM
I think Ben will be forced to retire in 2-3 years (because of concussions).

Notleadpoisoned
04-28-2010, 08:22 AM
If we were talking about Bret Michaels I'd probably say yes. But Ben, probably not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc2kjaNyfes

cruzer8
04-28-2010, 11:07 AM
It certainly shouldn't be ruled out.

I've seen stories of people suffering head trauma and after the trauma only being able to speak a language they've never spoken in their lives. Or suddenly speaking english but with some type of foreign accent.

fezziwig
04-28-2010, 11:08 AM
As a matter of fact weeks ago I was talking to a news reporter for channel 11 and I asked him about Ben and all the rumors/stories you hear about the guy. The reporter said they are all true and that Ben is a tool. He went on to say that it wasn't always that way and he used to be a nice guy until he had the accident. He wasn't putting that out as an excuse for Ben, just when he noticed Ben becomming a less than favorable person.
You never know, with what the doctors said and this guys saying this long before the reports maybe, Ben does suffer from too much physical abuse.

rpmpit
04-28-2010, 11:13 AM
This is an easy one to answer. Was he a doosh in high school and/or college? If so, you can't blame the head trauma.

My wife actually brought this up when the latest assault accusations came up. And I quote Mrs. Armpit, "That motorcycle accident really screwed him up!"

I've read quotes from his high school and college coaches, and teachers, that he was not a doosh at all, but a real nice guy.

And also quotes that when he first got to the Steelers and went out with the guys he just drank ice water.

And of course the "Play for Jesus" Sharpied in on his sneakers, and the crew cut.

As you might know, I'm all in favor of giving Ben one more chance. Having said that, the difference between the "old" Ben and the "new" Ben could be due to old-fashioned not handling fame and celebrity well - no need to bring head trauma into it.


I remember the "PFJ". And you're right, it could just be him not handling fame and celebrity well. But hearing these other stories, you can't just rule out the head trauma.

ramblinjim
04-28-2010, 11:43 AM
if it's head trauma, i hope he gets the help he needs. by all accounts, Ben used to be a pretty good guy.

feltdizz
04-28-2010, 11:43 AM
I think the head trauma, fame and celebrity are all to blame. Early on in Ben's career he was still the "kid" in the locker room and Bettis and Porter were running the locker room. I'll never forget Porter saying the vets had a poker night and Ben walked in and Peezy was like "what the?" then saw he was with Bettis and shut is trap. Bettis ran our team and ran it well.

I think the absence of those vets and Cowher leaving have just as much to do with the change in Ben's off field behavior as the head trauma.

Shawn
04-28-2010, 11:48 AM
This is an easy one to answer. Was he a doosh in high school and/or college? If so, you can't blame the head trauma.

My wife actually brought this up when the latest assault accusations came up. And I quote Mrs. Armpit, "That motorcycle accident really screwed him up!"

I think you nailed it. People that knew Ben before the accident are shoked by the behavior...very atypical for Ben etc. He was described as the guy that would go to the bar with friends and drink ice water.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-28-2010, 11:55 AM
If Porter called Ben out after the 4th game of the season after his motorcycle wreck, that sets the timeline of when he started the douchebaggery cause most accounts say he was pretty normal and friendly before that. You would think a near death experience would humble him and make him closer to his teammates.

RussBII
04-28-2010, 12:06 PM
I'm going to need scientific evidence that this is the cause. Specifically when all of that early success and the millions of dollars could just as easily be the issue...


I can't even imagine what an arrogant prick i would be if all of that stuff came to me as easily/quickly as Ben...

feltdizz
04-28-2010, 12:08 PM
If Porter called Ben out after the 4th game of the season after his motorcycle wreck, that sets the timeline of when he started the douchebaggery cause most accounts say he was pretty normal and friendly before that. You would think a near death experience would humble him and make him closer to his teammates.

Maybe the accident was the trigger... by all accounts EVERYONE in the organization wanted him to park the bike. The accident could have made him bitter...plus losing his college coach/mentor could have turned the demons loose.

When you lose someone so close to you it can cause a "me against the world" type attitude.

feltdizz
04-28-2010, 12:10 PM
I'm going to need scientific evidence that this is the cause. Specifically when all of that early success and the millions of dollars could just as easily be the issue...


I can't even imagine what an arrogant prick i would be if all of that stuff came to me as easily/quickly as Ben...

all the wins... all the fame.. your mentor passed on and most of the vets have left and you run the team...

:Agree

Mister Pittsburgh
04-28-2010, 12:12 PM
Wonder what the chances are, if any, that the professionals that Ben is going to see look into this scenario, the head trauma trigger so to speak. If it is found his melon is messed up is there any chance they could say that he shouldn't play football anymore?

flippy
04-28-2010, 12:15 PM
Could also be using drugs and/or alcohol to mask pain.

RussBII
04-28-2010, 12:16 PM
Wonder what the chances are, if any, that the professionals that Ben is going to see look into this scenario, the head trauma trigger so to speak. If it is found his melon is messed up is there any chance they could say that he shouldn't play football anymore?

It'll become a HUGE catch-22 for the league and I doubt we ever hear about if it's related in anyway.

If it is, anyone who gets in trouble can say "It's my brain.. its messed up from the football."

AngryAsian
04-28-2010, 12:21 PM
Wonder what the chances are, if any, that the professionals that Ben is going to see look into this scenario, the head trauma trigger so to speak. If it is found his melon is messed up is there any chance they could say that he shouldn't play football anymore?

It'll become a HUGE catch-22 for the league and I doubt we ever hear about if it's related in anyway.

If it is, anyone who gets in trouble can say "It's my brain.. its messed up from the football."


Years from now we'll here players being diagnosed with RS.... Roethlisberger Syndrome

Mister Pittsburgh
04-28-2010, 12:52 PM
Wonder what the chances are, if any, that the professionals that Ben is going to see look into this scenario, the head trauma trigger so to speak. If it is found his melon is messed up is there any chance they could say that he shouldn't play football anymore?

It'll become a HUGE catch-22 for the league and I doubt we ever hear about if it's related in anyway.

If it is, anyone who gets in trouble can say "It's my brain.. its messed up from the football."

I think there would need to be some history of concussions. In Ben's case, going 40mph face first into the side of a mini van with no helmet catapults him above others in the old head trauma department. When a paramedic is pinching an artery in your neck closed so you don't bleed to death on the ride to the hospital due to your face exploding, and now half your head is metal plates, you have a decent case that head trauma might impact your personality.

My sister got in a car accident where a cement truck crossed into her lane and crushed her car. She had a head injury. At first seemed just like some short term memory loss but is much worse. She was a specialized nurse and now can never do that again. She isn't mentally retarded or anything that drastic but coudl never hold a real job because she forgets everything. Her personality is totally different now. Used to get along with her fairly well but can't stand talking to her or being aroudn her now she is so crazy. Not joking here, I think it caused her to have some sort of schitzophrenic problem or something. She goes to see a doctor but he has no real answers. She is F'ed for life now due to the wreck.

birtikidis
04-28-2010, 01:14 PM
If Porter called Ben out after the 4th game of the season after his motorcycle wreck, that sets the timeline of when he started the douchebaggery cause most accounts say he was pretty normal and friendly before that. You would think a near death experience would humble him and make him closer to his teammates.
even dookie said in outside th lines that prior to that season he would hang out with the guys and have dinner with their families and stuff... may be more to it we think.

RuthlessBurgher
04-28-2010, 01:50 PM
Wonder what the chances are, if any, that the professionals that Ben is going to see look into this scenario, the head trauma trigger so to speak. If it is found his melon is messed up is there any chance they could say that he shouldn't play football anymore?

It'll become a HUGE catch-22 for the league and I doubt we ever hear about if it's related in anyway.

If it is, anyone who gets in trouble can say "It's my brain.. its messed up from the football."


Years from now we'll here players being diagnosed with RS.... Roethlisberger Syndrome

And most of the regular posters on this board will be diagnosed with RuthlessBurgher Syndrome. :P

hawaiiansteel
04-28-2010, 02:14 PM
i suffer from Roethlisberger Syndrome...

whenever i hit my head a little bit i immediately start thinking of women's boobs.

RuthlessBurgher
04-28-2010, 02:16 PM
i suffer from Roethlisberger Syndrome...

whenever i hit my head a little bit i immediately start thinking of women's boobs.

You need to hit your head first for that?

:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

rpmpit
04-28-2010, 03:04 PM
i suffer from Roethlisberger Syndrome...

whenever i hit my head a little bit i immediately start thinking of women's boobs.

You need to hit your head first for that?

:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Yeah for me, thinking about boobs is usually associated with breathing :lol:

flippy
04-28-2010, 03:06 PM
The dr must have drop me on my head the day I was born.

RuthlessBurgher
04-28-2010, 03:12 PM
i suffer from Roethlisberger Syndrome...

whenever i hit my head a little bit i immediately start thinking of women's boobs.

You need to hit your head first for that?

:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Yeah for me, thinking about boobs is usually associated with breathing :lol:

So if a woman who is well-endowed in the chesticle region stops by for a chat, you must hold your breath in order to maintain eye contact? :wink:

rpmpit
04-28-2010, 03:36 PM
i suffer from Roethlisberger Syndrome...

whenever i hit my head a little bit i immediately start thinking of women's boobs.

You need to hit your head first for that?

:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Yeah for me, thinking about boobs is usually associated with breathing :lol:

So if a woman who is well-endowed in the chesticle region stops by for a chat, you must hold your breath in order to maintain eye contact? :wink:

The breath holding serves two purposes:

1. As you pointed out, not breathing allows me to focus on something other than the fun bags.

and

2. Armpit is addicted to caffeine. So there's a good chance I'll have coffee breath at any given time throughout the day :oops:

Jom112
04-28-2010, 04:26 PM
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse:



@bmp21: ESPN seeking Dr. Phil's take on Ben Roethlisberger

RuthlessBurgher
04-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse:



@bmp21: ESPN seeking Dr. Phil's take on Ben Roethlisberger


http://www.momssoapbox.com/wp-content/uploads/0906_tv_01_drphil.jpg

Chadman
04-28-2010, 07:16 PM
There would be so many 'causes and effects' throughout an athlete's life to go from 'good guy' to 'bad guy' that it'll be hard to gauge any real definate reasoning.

That being said- when you factor in all the events over the last so many years in Ben's life, it's easy to see how a young guy could 'go off the rails', so to speak.

That's not an excuse- in the end, regardless of what Ben has had to endure- it's his responsibility to act in a respectable fashion. But it could be a reason.

One thing that may come from this is a renewed importance on teams to keep steady, quality leaders in the organisation instead of looking for 'the next new young athlete' to replace them.

fordfixer
04-29-2010, 12:13 AM
i suffer from Roethlisberger Syndrome...

whenever i hit my head a little bit i immediately start thinking of women's boobs.

You need to hit your head first for that?

:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
:Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Yeah for me, thinking about boobs is usually associated with breathing :lol:

So if a woman who is well-endowed in the chesticle region stops by for a chat, you must hold your breath in order to maintain eye contact? :wink:

The breath holding serves two purposes:

1. As you pointed out, not breathing allows me to focus on something other than the fun bags.

and

2. Armpit is addicted to caffeine. So there's a good chance I'll have coffee breath at any given time throughout the day :oops:

3. It also makes his chest appear larger, stomach smaller, and makes him look like he has a neck :lol:

rpmpit
04-29-2010, 06:35 AM
The breath holding serves two purposes:

1. As you pointed out, not breathing allows me to focus on something other than the fun bags.

and

2. Armpit is addicted to caffeine. So there's a good chance I'll have coffee breath at any given time throughout the day :oops:

3. It also makes his chest appear larger, stomach smaller, and makes him look like he has a neck :lol:

Thanks for the early morning laugh! Needed it today! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2010, 06:45 AM
There would be so many 'causes and effects' throughout an athlete's life to go from 'good guy' to 'bad guy' that it'll be hard to gauge any real definate reasoning.

That being said- when you factor in all the events over the last so many years in Ben's life, it's easy to see how a young guy could 'go off the rails', so to speak.

That's not an excuse- in the end, regardless of what Ben has had to endure- it's his responsibility to act in a respectable fashion. But it could be a reason.

One thing that may come from this is a renewed importance on teams to keep steady, quality leaders in the organisation instead of looking for 'the next new young athlete' to replace them.

I agree. I will add that there is no hope for him if the head bangs were the main cause. A person can't turn off an area of the brain if something is wrong up there. I don't believe talking about it will help either. He will go back to the same behavior and won't be able to control himself. The extent of brain damage would be a factor. Pre and post analysis of his brain would probably be necessary to determine if the concussions were the main cause.

I believe that alcohol and poor judgement are the main causes of Ben's issues. Those are issues that Ben can get help.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 08:01 AM
There would be so many 'causes and effects' throughout an athlete's life to go from 'good guy' to 'bad guy' that it'll be hard to gauge any real definate reasoning.

That being said- when you factor in all the events over the last so many years in Ben's life, it's easy to see how a young guy could 'go off the rails', so to speak.

That's not an excuse- in the end, regardless of what Ben has had to endure- it's his responsibility to act in a respectable fashion. But it could be a reason.

One thing that may come from this is a renewed importance on teams to keep steady, quality leaders in the organisation instead of looking for 'the next new young athlete' to replace them.

I agree. I will add that there is no hope for him if the head bangs were the main cause. A person can't turn off an area of the brain if something is wrong up there. I don't believe talking about it will help either. He will go back to the same behavior and won't be able to control himself. The extent of brain damage would be a factor. Pre and post analysis of his brain would probably be necessary to determine if the concussions were the main cause.

I believe that alcohol and poor judgement are the main causes of Ben's issues. Those are issues that Ben can get help.

There are plenty of experts out there who disagree with you.

Have a look: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... 7b1c79523e (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=head+injury+behavior+change&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=a86c207b1c79523e)

Shawn
04-29-2010, 10:36 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1fh9qoru]Wonder what the chances are, if any, that the professionals that Ben is going to see look into this scenario, the head trauma trigger so to speak. If it is found his melon is messed up is there any chance they could say that he shouldn't play football anymore?

It'll become a HUGE catch-22 for the league and I doubt we ever hear about if it's related in anyway.

If it is, anyone who gets in trouble can say "It's my brain.. its messed up from the football."

I think there would need to be some history of concussions. In Ben's case, going 40mph face first into the side of a mini van with no helmet catapults him above others in the old head trauma department. When a paramedic is pinching an artery in your neck closed so you don't bleed to death on the ride to the hospital due to your face exploding, and now half your head is metal plates, you have a decent case that head trauma might impact your personality.

My sister got in a car accident where a cement truck crossed into her lane and crushed her car. She had a head injury. At first seemed just like some short term memory loss but is much worse. She was a specialized nurse and now can never do that again. She isn't mentally retarded or anything that drastic but coudl never hold a real job because she forgets everything. Her personality is totally different now. Used to get along with her fairly well but can't stand talking to her or being aroudn her now she is so crazy. Not joking here, I think it caused her to have some sort of schitzophrenic problem or something. She goes to see a doctor but he has no real answers. She is F'ed for life now due to the wreck.[/quote:1fh9qoru]

I have to 100% agree. To foo foo the notion of his head trauma playing with his personality is short sighted at best. People underestimate the amount of personality changes that come through head trauma.

I also have personal experience with this...my dad was in a major motor vehicle accident with head trauma. He has never been the same person. For at least a year he was inappropriate, anti-social, anxious, depressed etc. That was nothing like the dad I knew before the accident. He has improved greatly but won't ever be the same guy.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 10:39 AM
There would be so many 'causes and effects' throughout an athlete's life to go from 'good guy' to 'bad guy' that it'll be hard to gauge any real definate reasoning.

That being said- when you factor in all the events over the last so many years in Ben's life, it's easy to see how a young guy could 'go off the rails', so to speak.

That's not an excuse- in the end, regardless of what Ben has had to endure- it's his responsibility to act in a respectable fashion. But it could be a reason.

One thing that may come from this is a renewed importance on teams to keep steady, quality leaders in the organisation instead of looking for 'the next new young athlete' to replace them.

I agree. I will add that there is no hope for him if the head bangs were the main cause. A person can't turn off an area of the brain if something is wrong up there. I don't believe talking about it will help either. He will go back to the same behavior and won't be able to control himself. The extent of brain damage would be a factor. Pre and post analysis of his brain would probably be necessary to determine if the concussions were the main cause.

I believe that alcohol and poor judgement are the main causes of Ben's issues. Those are issues that Ben can get help.

I'm not sure where you get your information but none of that is correct. People with brain injuries can re-route connections and are greatly improved with physical and psychological rehab. Some injuries are too great that they can't be overcome but that isn't the case with many head trauma victims.

ANPSTEEL
04-29-2010, 12:00 PM
It is extremely difficult to quantify the exact effects brain trauma has upon an individual's behavior.

One of the main problems with the diagnosis- is that for the most part - the patient doesn't have any real objectivity regarding the changes. To the patient - everything is normal.

I would not be at all surprised to find out that Ben's head trauma has played a role in the anti-social behavioral traits he has exhibited over the past few years....

but you can not rule out the influence of:

- incredible and historic success at a very young age
- continued and staff supported development as a player- who "does what he wants" and calls most of the shots on game day. (the perception that he is above the team.)
- overwhelming money
- unfathomable idolization - particularly within Pittsburgh * W.PA.
- fame- constant media attention
- constant attention from women who were previously out of Ben's league
lastly
- continued grow and separation from the grounding and influences of his family. These likely being replaced with very different influences.

So- while Ben's healthy almost certainly has impacted his behavior- there is no way to get around all the other "outside" influences that are more likely at root.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 12:14 PM
It is extremely difficult to quantify the exact effects brain trauma has upon an individual's behavior.

One of the main problems with the diagnosis- is that for the most part - the patient doesn't have any real objectivity regarding the changes. To the patient - everything is normal.

I would not be at all surprised to find out that Ben's head trauma has played a role in the anti-social behavioral traits he has exhibited over the past few years....

but you can not rule out the influence of:

- incredible and historic success at a very young age
- continued and staff supported development as a player- who "does what he wants" and calls most of the shots on game day. (the perception that he is above the team.)
- overwhelming money
- unfathomable idolization - particularly within Pittsburgh * W.PA.
- fame- constant media attention
- constant attention from women who were previously out of Ben's league
lastly
- continued grow and separation from the grounding and influences of his family. These likely being replaced with very different influences.

So- while Ben's healthy almost certainly has impacted his behavior- there is no way to get around all the other "outside" influences that are more likely at root.

You were doin' good up until that point.

No one here is in a position to know that, just as no one here is in a position to know if head trauma is the cause.

Slapstick
04-29-2010, 12:25 PM
It is extremely difficult to quantify the exact effects brain trauma has upon an individual's behavior.

One of the main problems with the diagnosis- is that for the most part - the patient doesn't have any real objectivity regarding the changes. To the patient - everything is normal.

I would not be at all surprised to find out that Ben's head trauma has played a role in the anti-social behavioral traits he has exhibited over the past few years....

but you can not rule out the influence of:

- incredible and historic success at a very young age
- continued and staff supported development as a player- who "does what he wants" and calls most of the shots on game day. (the perception that he is above the team.)
- overwhelming money
- unfathomable idolization - particularly within Pittsburgh * W.PA.
- fame- constant media attention
- constant attention from women who were previously out of Ben's league
lastly
- continued grow and separation from the grounding and influences of his family. These likely being replaced with very different influences.

So- while Ben's healthy almost certainly has impacted his behavior- there is no way to get around all the other "outside" influences that are more likely at root.


Perhaps you are right, but if that were commonly the case, there would be far more players in trouble with the law/NFL...


Considering the fact that many NFL players deal with the same issues on a daily basis and are not accused of sexual misconduct, you can't rule out the head trauma...

aggiebones
04-29-2010, 01:41 PM
My first thoughts when I heard about this was the concussions, then I remembered the motorcycle trauma.
After his last concussion he played with a dazed look in his eyes.
My take is that he is suffering from 2 things:
Head trauma issues and big fat cash issues. Neither is to be taken likely and the combination of the 2 can be very corrosive on a person. I don't care who you are.

Fact is that he's gonna have to deal with what he's done, regardless of the factors that led to it. And if he can't overcome it, then he'll be out of the league, either legally or physically.

But I don't think all can be put on Big Ben fairly in the manner it has been. But he'll be the one having to deal with it. Luckily he'll be getting a full on pshych evaluation while also getting his melon reviewed for damage. I feel for him a bit, since I'm not jealous of big stacks of cash. He speed through life over the last 8 years and its hard to keep control of the wheel in those circumstances. With his brain mushy, it probably felt much faster to him. I hope time slows down a bit for him and others will help him manage things.

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2010, 01:57 PM
There would be so many 'causes and effects' throughout an athlete's life to go from 'good guy' to 'bad guy' that it'll be hard to gauge any real definate reasoning.

That being said- when you factor in all the events over the last so many years in Ben's life, it's easy to see how a young guy could 'go off the rails', so to speak.
/
That's not an excuse- in the end, regardless of what Ben has had to endure- it's his responsibility to act in a respectable fashion. But it could be a reason.

One thing that may come from this is a renewed importance on teams to keep steady, quality leaders in the organisation instead of looking for 'the next new young athlete' to replace them.

I agree. I will add that there is no hope for him if the head bangs were the main cause. A person can't turn off an area of the brain if something is wrong up there. I don't believe talking about it will help either. He will go back to the same behavior and won't be able to control himself. The extent of brain damage would be a factor. Pre and post analysis of his brain would probably be necessary to determine if the concussions were the main cause.

I believe that alcohol and poor judgement are the main causes of Ben's issues. Those are issues that Ben can get help.

I'm not sure where you get your information but none of that is correct. People with brain injuries can re-route connections and are greatly improved with physical and psychological rehab. Some injuries are too great that they can't be overcome but that isn't the case with many head trauma victims.

Maybe I should had stated probably no hope. How long does it take for people with brain injuries to re-route connections? Especially, a person that continues to get "bumped" on the head? I believe it takes many years for connections to be re-routed. It may depend on the individual's own abilities to heal. Not sure if anyone has the answers to many questions regarding the brain. So much is not understood.

So none of my information or opinions are correct? Thanks Mr. all knowing.

I got my information from my life experiences and working with people with mental issues. Most people with mental issues are difficult to treat. That is because they believe their behavior is normal. There are also chemical imbalances that come into play. There are times they can't control their behavior no matter the prescribed therapy.

My opinion is that Ben needs to retire if his issues are from the concussions. He will suffer more bumps on the head/concussions as a result of playing football. The people that believe the Steelers fortunes revolve around Ben better hope the concussions are not the cause of his behavioral issues. Ben will most likely resort back to his old behavior if the concussions were the cause of his issues.

I believe that the alcohol, enablers, fans, poor judgement, and fame are the cause of Ben's issues. Outside of the apparent alcoholism, I think those issues are easier to overcome. It is possible the bumps on the head contributed. Living though that accident may have contributed. Maybe he believes he should live each day as his last. I would never rule anything out. I don't believe I would ever tell someone none of their information/opinions were incorrect.

ANPSTEEL
04-29-2010, 02:00 PM
In reply to Slap & Cruzer-

I guess where I was going with my point was, IMO, most of Ben's behavior seems to stem from a sense of entitlement - or a god complex.

From everything we read, Ben appears to put himself at a level above all others, in most everything he does.

On the field, in the locker room, with the coaches, and off the field in his interpersonal relationships and social behavior towards others.

I tend to think this behavior stems more from the "superstar" status he has achieved, which includes all the things I outlined in the prior post, and less from any physical after effects from his head injuries.

Make no mistake- money changes people in bizarre ways- add to it all the other "influences" - and there you find the root, I believe.

I say this, in part, from personal experience-

While I have never been in Ben's position- I have suffered 3 grade 1, 1 grade 2, and 1 grade 3 concussion (the last I was unconscious for a bit over 3 days) - I am sure that these injuries had an affect on me- but I can not quantify the change.

I have also had professional success- again not on Ben's level, but enough that I started earning pretty significant money- and have since had that wiped out. Only in having the money and "things" gone did I recognize the changes. I'd suggest to you that the monetary success had more of an impact on me than the physical injuries.

just my thoughts.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 02:07 PM
There would be so many 'causes and effects' throughout an athlete's life to go from 'good guy' to 'bad guy' that it'll be hard to gauge any real definate reasoning.

That being said- when you factor in all the events over the last so many years in Ben's life, it's easy to see how a young guy could 'go off the rails', so to speak.
/
That's not an excuse- in the end, regardless of what Ben has had to endure- it's his responsibility to act in a respectable fashion. But it could be a reason.

One thing that may come from this is a renewed importance on teams to keep steady, quality leaders in the organisation instead of looking for 'the next new young athlete' to replace them.

I agree. I will add that there is no hope for him if the head bangs were the main cause. A person can't turn off an area of the brain if something is wrong up there. I don't believe talking about it will help either. He will go back to the same behavior and won't be able to control himself. The extent of brain damage would be a factor. Pre and post analysis of his brain would probably be necessary to determine if the concussions were the main cause.

I believe that alcohol and poor judgement are the main causes of Ben's issues. Those are issues that Ben can get help.

I'm not sure where you get your information but none of that is correct. People with brain injuries can re-route connections and are greatly improved with physical and psychological rehab. Some injuries are too great that they can't be overcome but that isn't the case with many head trauma victims.

Maybe I should had stated probably no hope. How long does it take for people with brain injuries to re-route connections? Especially, a person that continues to get "bumped" on the head? I believe it takes many years for connections to be re-routed. It may depend on the individual's own abilities to heal. Not sure if anyone has the answers to many questions regarding the brain. So much is not understood.

So none of my information or opinions are correct? Thanks Mr. all knowing.

I got my information from my life experiences and working with people with mental issues. Most people with mental issues are difficult to treat. That is because they believe their behavior is normal. There are also chemical imbalances that come into play. There are times they can't control their behavior no matter the prescribed therapy.

My opinion is that Ben needs to retire if his issues are from the concussions. He will suffer more bumps on the head/concussions as a result of playing football. The people that believe the Steelers fortunes revolve around Ben better hope the concussions are not the cause of his behavioral issues. Ben will most likely resort back to his old behavior if the concussions were the cause of his issues.

I believe that the alcohol, enablers, fans, poor judgement, and fame are the cause of Ben's issues. Outside of the apparent alcoholism, I think those issues are easier to overcome. It is possible the bumps on the head contributed. Living though that accident may have contributed. Maybe he believes he should live each day as his last. I would never rule anything out. I don't believe I would ever tell someone none of their information/opinions were incorrect.

Right...none of your original opinions are correct despite your massive experience in the field. All knowing? No need to get personal...I'm attacking your ideas not you as a person. I don't claim to be all knowing...nor am I a neurologist but I deal with brain injuries frequently in the emergency room. I do have a solid base knowledge in brain injury. Probably is also the wrong word. People OFTEN get better from brain injuries...significantly better. Many people live fairly normal lives but many suffer from chronic personality changes that can indeed improve with therapy and cognitive training.

I mean what kind of mental issues are you dealing with? Many times people with these types of brain injuries realize their personalities have changed, that their personality is off etc. If you are dealing with MRDD, schizophrenics etc then I would agree.

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2010, 02:11 PM
In reply to Slap & Cruzer-

I guess where I was going with my point was, IMO, most of Ben's behavior seems to stem from a sense of entitlement - or a god complex.

From everything we read, Ben appears to put himself at a level above all others, in most everything he does.

On the field, in the locker room, with the coaches, and off the field in his interpersonal relationships and social behavior towards others.

I tend to think this behavior stems more from the "superstar" status he has achieved, which includes all the things I outlined in the prior post, and less from any physical after effects from his head injuries.

Make no mistake- money changes people in bizarre ways- add to it all the other "influences" - and there you find the root, I believe.

I say this, in part, from personal experience-

While I have never been in Ben's position- I have suffered 3 grade 1, 1 grade 2, and 1 grade 3 concussion (the last I was unconscious for a bit over 3 days) - I am sure that these injuries had an affect on me- but I can not quantify the change.

I have also had professional success- again not on Ben's level, but enough that I started earning pretty significant money- and have since had that wiped out. Only in having the money and "things" gone did I recognize the changes. I'd suggest to you that the monetary success had more of an impact on me than the physical injuries.

just my thoughts.

I hope that the concussions are not the cause of Ben's issues. I don't think he will ever be the same again if the concussions are the cause. It will only be another sexual assault, showing poor judgement/behavior, or time bomb waiting to happen.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 02:12 PM
In reply to Slap & Cruzer-

I guess where I was going with my point was, IMO, most of Ben's behavior seems to stem from a sense of entitlement - or a god complex.

From everything we read, Ben appears to put himself at a level above all others, in most everything he does.

On the field, in the locker room, with the coaches, and off the field in his interpersonal relationships and social behavior towards others.

I tend to think this behavior stems more from the "superstar" status he has achieved, which includes all the things I outlined in the prior post, and less from any physical after effects from his head injuries.

Make no mistake- money changes people in bizarre ways- add to it all the other "influences" - and there you find the root, I believe.

I say this, in part, from personal experience-

While I have never been in Ben's position- I have suffered 3 grade 1, 1 grade 2, and 1 grade 3 concussion (the last I was unconscious for a bit over 3 days) - I am sure that these injuries had an affect on me- but I can not quantify the change.

I have also had professional success- again not on Ben's level, but enough that I started earning pretty significant money- and have since had that wiped out. Only in having the money and "things" gone did I recognize the changes. I'd suggest to you that the monetary success had more of an impact on me than the physical injuries.

just my thoughts.

At this point do you believe you are incapable of change? With realization of your issues were you able to address them and adjust your behavior?

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2010, 02:16 PM
There would be so many 'causes and effects' throughout an athlete's life to go from 'good guy' to 'bad guy' that it'll be hard to gauge any real definate reasoning.

That being said- when you factor in all the events over the last so many years in Ben's life, it's easy to see how a young guy could 'go off the rails', so to speak.
/
That's not an excuse- in the end, regardless of what Ben has had to endure- it's his responsibility to act in a respectable fashion. But it could be a reason.

One thing that may come from this is a renewed importance on teams to keep steady, quality leaders in the organisation instead of looking for 'the next new young athlete' to replace them.

I agree. I will add that there is no hope for him if the head bangs were the main cause. A person can't turn off an area of the brain if something is wrong up there. I don't believe talking about it will help either. He will go back to the same behavior and won't be able to control himself. The extent of brain damage would be a factor. Pre and post analysis of his brain would probably be necessary to determine if the concussions were the main cause.

I believe that alcohol and poor judgement are the main causes of Ben's issues. Those are issues that Ben can get help.

I'm not sure where you get your information but none of that is correct. People with brain injuries can re-route connections and are greatly improved with physical and psychological rehab. Some injuries are too great that they can't be overcome but that isn't the case with many head trauma victims.

Maybe I should had stated probably no hope. How long does it take for people with brain injuries to re-route connections? Especially, a person that continues to get "bumped" on the head? I believe it takes many years for connections to be re-routed. It may depend on the individual's own abilities to heal. Not sure if anyone has the answers to many questions regarding the brain. So much is not understood.

So none of my information or opinions are correct? Thanks Mr. all knowing.

I got my information from my life experiences and working with people with mental issues. Most people with mental issues are difficult to treat. That is because they believe their behavior is normal. There are also chemical imbalances that come into play. There are times they can't control their behavior no matter the prescribed therapy.

My opinion is that Ben needs to retire if his issues are from the concussions. He will suffer more bumps on the head/concussions as a result of playing football. The people that believe the Steelers fortunes revolve around Ben better hope the concussions are not the cause of his behavioral issues. Ben will most likely resort back to his old behavior if the concussions were the cause of his issues.

I believe that the alcohol, enablers, fans, poor judgement, and fame are the cause of Ben's issues. Outside of the apparent alcoholism, I think those issues are easier to overcome. It is possible the bumps on the head contributed. Living though that accident may have contributed. Maybe he believes he should live each day as his last. I would never rule anything out. I don't believe I would ever tell someone none of their information/opinions were incorrect.

Right...none of your original opinions are correct despite your massive experience in the field. All knowing? No need to get personal...I'm attacking your ideas not you as a person. I don't claim to be all knowing...nor am I a neurologist but I deal with brain injuries frequently in the emergency room. I do have a solid base knowledge in brain injury. Probably is also the wrong word. People OFTEN get better from brain injuries...significantly better. Many people live fairly normal lives but many suffer from chronic personality changes that can indeed improve with therapy and cognitive training.

I mean what kind of mental issues are you dealing with? Many times people with these types of brain injuries realize their personalities have changed, that their personality is off etc. If you are dealing with MRDD, schizophrenics etc then I would agree.

I apologize if I took offense. I am not going to go through the back and forth. So much is not understood in regards to brain injuries, healing of those injuries, and personality changes.

We just better hope his personality changes are not because of the repeated concussions.

ANPSTEEL
04-29-2010, 02:24 PM
In reply to Slap & Cruzer-

I guess where I was going with my point was, IMO, most of Ben's behavior seems to stem from a sense of entitlement - or a god complex.

From everything we read, Ben appears to put himself at a level above all others, in most everything he does.

On the field, in the locker room, with the coaches, and off the field in his interpersonal relationships and social behavior towards others.

I tend to think this behavior stems more from the "superstar" status he has achieved, which includes all the things I outlined in the prior post, and less from any physical after effects from his head injuries.

Make no mistake- money changes people in bizarre ways- add to it all the other "influences" - and there you find the root, I believe.

I say this, in part, from personal experience-

While I have never been in Ben's position- I have suffered 3 grade 1, 1 grade 2, and 1 grade 3 concussion (the last I was unconscious for a bit over 3 days) - I am sure that these injuries had an affect on me- but I can not quantify the change.

I have also had professional success- again not on Ben's level, but enough that I started earning pretty significant money- and have since had that wiped out. Only in having the money and "things" gone did I recognize the changes. I'd suggest to you that the monetary success had more of an impact on me than the physical injuries.

just my thoughts.

At this point do you believe you are incapable of change? With realization of your issues were you able to address them and adjust your behavior?

People "changing" is a very nebulous concept.

I do believe people can change- I do not think it is either easy or fully understood.

I would imagine that these psychological changes are more readily addressed than physiological brain trauma/damage.

Not sure- its an interesting concept either way.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 02:26 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2010, 02:30 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

Ben would have to lay off the alcohol if that is the case. I don't think he should be bar hoping anytime soon. He should get better people around with his best interests at heart. A person or people that will always keep him in line.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 02:33 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

That is money. It's a sort of cognitive training. We do it for all sorts of issues from antisocial and addictive behaviors to those with brain injuries. These people can change if they become self aware. That self awareness comes in a variety of ways and with many it comes with a "bottom". I hope Ben's was these recent events. Ben will also be given experts to help him sort it all out and given tools to change behavior. His impulses could always be there but they will become manageable if he is willing to change.

I do believe this is multifactoral...wealth, fame and brain injury. I also believe he might have some substance abuse issues as well. He needs some help...but he can get better...significantly better.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 02:35 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

Ben would have to lay off the alcohol if that is the case. I don't think he should be bar hoping anytime soon. He should get better people around with his best interests at heart. A person or people that will always keep him in line.

I think you make a good point. He very well might have a substance issue that needs to be looked at.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 02:41 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

Ben would have to lay off the alcohol if that is the case. I don't think he should be bar hoping anytime soon. He should get better people around with his best interests at heart. A person or people that will always keep him in line.

Of course. What we have to assume up to this point is that Ben has not undergone any kind of procedures to determine whether or not his behavior is related to head trauma. But it sounds like he will be undergoing just such procedures now.

I would never assume that someone has substance abuse issues. There were many people at the various bars Ben visited that night who stated Ben was only seen nursing a beer.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 02:41 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

Ben would have to lay off the alcohol if that is the case. I don't think he should be bar hoping anytime soon. He should get better people around with his best interests at heart. A person or people that will always keep him in line.

Of course. What we have to assume up to this point is that Ben has not undergone any kind of procedures to determine whether or not his behavior is related to head trauma. But it sounds like he will be undergoing just such procedures now.

I would never assume that someone has substance abuse issues. There were many people at the various bars Ben visited that night who stated Ben was only seen nursing a beer.

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2010, 02:49 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

Ben would have to lay off the alcohol if that is the case. I don't think he should be bar hoping anytime soon. He should get better people around with his best interests at heart. A person or people that will always keep him in line.

I think you make a good point. He very well might have a substance issue that needs to be looked at.

For the good of himself, his family, women, the NFL, organization, and Steelers fans, I lay my hopes that his issues are more with the alcohol and other issues then with the concussions. Concussions are a different animal to tackle. We may never know the real cause of his issues. Whatever the case, I hope he emerges as a better person.

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2010, 02:58 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

Ben would have to lay off the alcohol if that is the case. I don't think he should be bar hoping anytime soon. He should get better people around with his best interests at heart. A person or people that will always keep him in line.

Of course. What we have to assume up to this point is that Ben has not undergone any kind of procedures to determine whether or not his behavior is related to head trauma. But it sounds like he will be undergoing just such procedures now.

I would never assume that someone has substance abuse issues. There were many people at the various bars Ben visited that night who stated Ben was only seen nursing a beer.

Head trauma may be a contributing factor. Mental professionals may or may never know if the head trauma was/is the cause of his issues. What we do know is alcoholism causes poor judgement and contributes to poor behavior. I think it would be best if Ben lays off the alcohol. I think it may be a contributing factor to his poor judgement and behavioral issues. It appears to me that he likes to get "blitzed" and not in the football sense.

So you believe the reports that Ben was only nursing a beer? How many bars did they visit? Did he take the same beer to each bar? Do you believe all the other reports of what happened that night?

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 03:36 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

Ben would have to lay off the alcohol if that is the case. I don't think he should be bar hoping anytime soon. He should get better people around with his best interests at heart. A person or people that will always keep him in line.

Of course. What we have to assume up to this point is that Ben has not undergone any kind of procedures to determine whether or not his behavior is related to head trauma. But it sounds like he will be undergoing just such procedures now.

I would never assume that someone has substance abuse issues. There were many people at the various bars Ben visited that night who stated Ben was only seen nursing a beer.

Head trauma may be a contributing factor. Mental professionals may or may never know if the head trauma was/is the cause of his issues. What we do know is alcoholism causes poor judgement and contributes to poor behavior. I think it would be best if Ben lays off the alcohol. I think it may be a contributing factor to his poor judgement and behavioral issues. It appears to me that he likes to get "blitzed" and not in the football sense.

So you believe the reports that Ben was only nursing a beer? How many bars did they visit? Did he take the same beer to each bar? Do you believe all the other reports of what happened that night?

What I'm saying is I don't make assumptions about a guy like Ben because I don't know him and have never interacted with him. He could be a raging alcoholic, he could be a binge drinker, he could be a social drinker who occasionally has a bit too much or he could be the guy who has one or two but buys for everyone else. I don't know because I'm not around him.

That's what I'm saying.

RuthlessBurgher
04-29-2010, 03:41 PM
I think it is merely a case of chronic entitlement with some acute douchebaggery mixed in. He needs to grow up and learn how to be a respectful gentleman off the field.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 03:45 PM
I think it is merely a case of chronic entitlement with some acute douchebaggery mixed in. He needs to grow up and learn how to be a respectful gentleman off the field.

I will LMAO if his evaluation shows head trauma is the cause of his personality change.

flippy
04-29-2010, 03:47 PM
I wonder if the accuser decided to go to police because she regretted what happened after she hit her head.

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2010, 04:09 PM
I think it is merely a case of chronic entitlement with some acute douchebaggery mixed in. He needs to grow up and learn how to be a respectful gentleman off the field.

I will LMAO if his evaluation shows head trauma is the cause of his personality change.

It is highly doubtful that type of information will be divulged.

If it is true, I don't think it will be so funny. Maybe you will enjoy it because your opinion was correct. I think that may be the worst case scenario. That type of diagnosis could affect Ben's life in more then one way. He may ultimately have to give up his football career. Repeated concussions could make his situation worse. That diagnosis may make Ben a ticking time bomb. It may only be a matter of time before that poor judgement or behavior exhibits itself again.

Makes me wonder if he treats everyone in a bad manner. Does he treat the Rooneys, his teammates, or Tomlin the same way? Appears he likes BA. Does he only treat women that way? How about his sister? Is it a selective problem? Ben mental state appears to be an interesting case study. lol

Shawn
04-29-2010, 04:24 PM
I have also read that people who suffer from personality changes due to traumatic head injuries can learn to remain "conscious" of themselves, which helps them to control urges, impulses, sudden flashes of rage, etc.

Of course they have to be open and accepting of the idea that their personality did change and they have to be willing to work at remaining focused on the task at hand.

Ben would have to lay off the alcohol if that is the case. I don't think he should be bar hoping anytime soon. He should get better people around with his best interests at heart. A person or people that will always keep him in line.

Of course. What we have to assume up to this point is that Ben has not undergone any kind of procedures to determine whether or not his behavior is related to head trauma. But it sounds like he will be undergoing just such procedures now.

I would never assume that someone has substance abuse issues. There were many people at the various bars Ben visited that night who stated Ben was only seen nursing a beer.

Head trauma may be a contributing factor. Mental professionals may or may never know if the head trauma was/is the cause of his issues. What we do know is alcoholism causes poor judgement and contributes to poor behavior. I think it would be best if Ben lays off the alcohol. I think it may be a contributing factor to his poor judgement and behavioral issues. It appears to me that he likes to get "blitzed" and not in the football sense.

So you believe the reports that Ben was only nursing a beer? How many bars did they visit? Did he take the same beer to each bar? Do you believe all the other reports of what happened that night?

What I'm saying is I don't make assumptions about a guy like Ben because I don't know him and have never interacted with him. He could be a raging alcoholic, he could be a binge drinker, he could be a social drinker who occasionally has a bit too much or he could be the guy who has one or two but buys for everyone else. I don't know because I'm not around him.

That's what I'm saying.

Just for clarification sake...there's really no difference between a "raging alcoholic", "functional alcoholics" and "binge drinkers". I know quite a few alcoholics who only drank a few times a month. Most people think of under the bridge drunks when they think of an alcoholic...or someone who has to drink everyday. That's just not the case.
There might be some earlier in the disease process as others but it's the same disease with the same treatment. The only reason I bring that up is because many in society get confused on the topic. By medical standards many people that don't think of themselves as an alcoholic are indeed alcoholics. It's a progressive illness that only worsens with time and rarely improves without treatment.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 05:37 PM
Just for clarification sake...there's really no difference between a "raging alcoholic", "functional alcoholics" and "binge drinkers". I know quite a few alcoholics who only drank a few times a month. Most people think of under the bridge drunks when they think of an alcoholic...or someone who has to drink everyday. That's just not the case.
There might be some earlier in the disease process as others but it's the same disease with the same treatment. The only reason I bring that up is because many in society get confused on the topic. By medical standards many people that don't think of themselves as an alcoholic are indeed alcoholics. It's a progressive illness that only worsens with time and rarely improves without treatment.

Clinically speaking you are correct.

In the real world I've been around all types, as most of us have, and there's definitely a difference in behaviors between them.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 05:39 PM
Just for clarification sake...there's really no difference between a "raging alcoholic", "functional alcoholics" and "binge drinkers". I know quite a few alcoholics who only drank a few times a month. Most people think of under the bridge drunks when they think of an alcoholic...or someone who has to drink everyday. That's just not the case.
There might be some earlier in the disease process as others but it's the same disease with the same treatment. The only reason I bring that up is because many in society get confused on the topic. By medical standards many people that don't think of themselves as an alcoholic are indeed alcoholics. It's a progressive illness that only worsens with time and rarely improves without treatment.

Clinically speaking you are correct.

In the real world I've been around all types, as most of us have, and there's definitely a difference in behaviors between them.

flippy
04-29-2010, 07:35 PM
Just for clarification sake...there's really no difference between a "raging alcoholic", "functional alcoholics" and "binge drinkers". I know quite a few alcoholics who only drank a few times a month. Most people think of under the bridge drunks when they think of an alcoholic...or someone who has to drink everyday. That's just not the case.
There might be some earlier in the disease process as others but it's the same disease with the same treatment. The only reason I bring that up is because many in society get confused on the topic. By medical standards many people that don't think of themselves as an alcoholic are indeed alcoholics. It's a progressive illness that only worsens with time and rarely improves without treatment.

I watch dr drew"s show on addiction and in laymens' terms they've said it doesn't matter how often you drink, but rather if there are negative consequences when you drink.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 07:49 PM
Just for clarification sake...there's really no difference between a "raging alcoholic", "functional alcoholics" and "binge drinkers". I know quite a few alcoholics who only drank a few times a month. Most people think of under the bridge drunks when they think of an alcoholic...or someone who has to drink everyday. That's just not the case.
There might be some earlier in the disease process as others but it's the same disease with the same treatment. The only reason I bring that up is because many in society get confused on the topic. By medical standards many people that don't think of themselves as an alcoholic are indeed alcoholics. It's a progressive illness that only worsens with time and rarely improves without treatment.

Clinically speaking you are correct.

In the real world I've been around all types, as most of us have, and there's definitely a difference in behaviors between them.

There are merely those further along in the disease process. The further you go the more negative actions and consequences. That's what you observe. Some progress faster...some it takes 20-30 years but an alcoholic is an alcoholic and treatment is the same.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 07:55 PM
Just for clarification sake...there's really no difference between a "raging alcoholic", "functional alcoholics" and "binge drinkers". I know quite a few alcoholics who only drank a few times a month. Most people think of under the bridge drunks when they think of an alcoholic...or someone who has to drink everyday. That's just not the case.
There might be some earlier in the disease process as others but it's the same disease with the same treatment. The only reason I bring that up is because many in society get confused on the topic. By medical standards many people that don't think of themselves as an alcoholic are indeed alcoholics. It's a progressive illness that only worsens with time and rarely improves without treatment.

I watch dr drew"s show on addiction and in laymens' terms they've said it doesn't matter how often you drink, but rather if there are negative consequences when you drink.

I think that is completely accurate. I know a guy who only drank 2-3 times a month but when he drank he blacked out and found himself beaten up, in jail, in peoples homes he didn't know. This is a highly educated, highly successful individual who is very good at what he does. But, he can't drink successfully. It had horrible consequences when he drank. He has been sober for about 2 years now and has reclaimed his life.

And believe me...I'm not a guy who preaches to those who drink. I know many people that can have a couple and enjoy their drinking experience. I just don't believe Ben is one of those people.

HeHateMe
04-29-2010, 09:46 PM
I think Ben's problems began with TOO MUCH EARLY SUCCESS. The Head Trauma crap is an excuse. If that was the case boxers like Muhammad Ali, Tex Cobb and others would have similar behavior. Ben had issues with Whizenhunt and Cowher before the accident. Why hasnt Steve Young or Trent Green suffered irrational behavior? This is a crock. Ben is who he is because that is HIM, not due to any head injuries. The more success you have the cockier you get. He got cockier once Cowher and Whiz left. Do you think he REALLY respects Tomlin or Arians?

Yeah right.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 10:02 PM
I think Ben's problems began with TOO MUCH EARLY SUCCESS. The Head Trauma crap is an excuse. If that was the case boxers like Muhammad Ali, Tex Cobb and others would have similar behavior. Ben had issues with Whizenhunt and Cowher before the accident. Why hasnt Steve Young or Trent Green suffered irrational behavior? This is a crock. Ben is who he is because that is HIM, not due to any head injuries. The more success you have the cockier you get. He got cockier once Cowher and Whiz left. Do you think he REALLY respects Tomlin or Arians?

Yeah right.

And the trolls come out to play in the offseason. We need to bring back QB...if I could only convince John to unban him. :lol:

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 10:05 PM
Just for clarification sake...there's really no difference between a "raging alcoholic", "functional alcoholics" and "binge drinkers". I know quite a few alcoholics who only drank a few times a month. Most people think of under the bridge drunks when they think of an alcoholic...or someone who has to drink everyday. That's just not the case.
There might be some earlier in the disease process as others but it's the same disease with the same treatment. The only reason I bring that up is because many in society get confused on the topic. By medical standards many people that don't think of themselves as an alcoholic are indeed alcoholics. It's a progressive illness that only worsens with time and rarely improves without treatment.

Clinically speaking you are correct.

In the real world I've been around all types, as most of us have, and there's definitely a difference in behaviors between them.

There are merely those further along in the disease process. The further you go the more negative actions and consequences. That's what you observe. Some progress faster...some it takes 20-30 years but an alcoholic is an alcoholic and treatment is the same.

I know people who do their weekend drinking. They've been doing it for years. Clinically you can call them what you want, but they don't cause problems nor do they hurt anyone or themselves. And they seriously let loose on the weekends. Not everyone who does that is someone who needs help.

HeHateMe - you're off to a bad start here already.

HeHateMe
04-29-2010, 10:07 PM
I'm no troll I'm a diehard fan. Shall you ask the mods to ban me because I put the STEELERS over Ben Roethlisberger? Our team is a JOKE because of this guy. Sorry, I'm sick of what he has done to OUR TEAM. If you aren't then so be it. I am. Head trauma has nothing to do with this. Its arrogance begat by a fat contract. Funny RICH guys for the most part seem to be arrogant. Perhaps THAT'S the problem and not the head injuries.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 10:08 PM
I'm no troll I'm a diehard fan. Shall you ask the mods to ban me because I put the STEELERS over Ben Roethlisberger? Our team is a JOKE because of this guy. Sorry, I'm sick of what he has done to OUR TEAM. If you aren't then so be it. I am. Head trauma has nothing to do with this. Its arrogance begat by a fat contract. Funny RICH guys for the most part seem to be arrogant. Perhaps THAT'S the problem and not the head injuries.

Strike three.

HeHateMe
04-29-2010, 10:12 PM
Funny when T.O acts like this, he is labled a cancer. Ben is forgiven. At least T.O doesnt have cops and judges blowing up his butt.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 10:15 PM
Just for clarification sake...there's really no difference between a "raging alcoholic", "functional alcoholics" and "binge drinkers". I know quite a few alcoholics who only drank a few times a month. Most people think of under the bridge drunks when they think of an alcoholic...or someone who has to drink everyday. That's just not the case.
There might be some earlier in the disease process as others but it's the same disease with the same treatment. The only reason I bring that up is because many in society get confused on the topic. By medical standards many people that don't think of themselves as an alcoholic are indeed alcoholics. It's a progressive illness that only worsens with time and rarely improves without treatment.

Clinically speaking you are correct.

In the real world I've been around all types, as most of us have, and there's definitely a difference in behaviors between them.

There are merely those further along in the disease process. The further you go the more negative actions and consequences. That's what you observe. Some progress faster...some it takes 20-30 years but an alcoholic is an alcoholic and treatment is the same.

I know people who do their weekend drinking. They've been doing it for years. Clinically you can call them what you want, but they don't cause problems nor do they hurt anyone or themselves. And they seriously let loose on the weekends. Not everyone who does that is someone who needs help.

HeHateMe - you're off to a bad start here already.

Not saying they are. The whole concept about consequences is what we are talking about.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 10:16 PM
I'm no troll I'm a diehard fan. Shall you ask the mods to ban me because I put the STEELERS over Ben Roethlisberger? Our team is a JOKE because of this guy. Sorry, I'm sick of what he has done to OUR TEAM. If you aren't then so be it. I am. Head trauma has nothing to do with this. Its arrogance begat by a fat contract. Funny RICH guys for the most part seem to be arrogant. Perhaps THAT'S the problem and not the head injuries.

Strike three.

:lol:

HeHateMe
04-29-2010, 10:24 PM
Bad start? Because I voice my opinion and its contrary to the masses? I'm a Steeler fan. I was a fan BEFORE Ben came and will be one when he leaves. You root for another team while he is suspended. I'll root for the Steelers, thank you.

Shawn
04-29-2010, 11:29 PM
Bad start? Because I voice my opinion and its contrary to the masses? I'm a Steeler fan. I was a fan BEFORE Ben came and will be one when he leaves. You root for another team while he is suspended. I'll root for the Steelers, thank you.

:lol:

Good stuff.

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 08:26 AM
Thanks bro. Steeler fans need to wake up. Had this been Dixon the 2 time SB champion with 2 allegations in a year, the Steeler faithful wouldnt be so forgiving. Now I have to go to work and hear all this RAPE crap all the time because our IDIOT qb can't stay out of trouble. There is NO excuse for this kind of behavior. Period. Funny EVERYONE close to the guy says the same thing about him. Pittsburgh business owners, Bradshaw, Whiz, Porter, Logan, Dookie, Sepulveda etc. And its Telling that NONE of the Steeler players are coming to his defense in regards to his character.

cruzer8
04-30-2010, 08:36 AM
Thanks bro. Steeler fans need to wake up. Had this been Dixon the 2 time SB champion with 2 allegations in a year, the Steeler faithful wouldnt be so forgiving. Now I have to go to work and hear all this RAPE crap all the time because our IDIOT qb can't stay out of trouble. There is NO excuse for this kind of behavior. Period. Funny EVERYONE close to the guy says the same thing about him. Pittsburgh business owners, Bradshaw, Whiz, Porter, Logan, Dookie, Sepulveda etc. And its Telling that NONE of the Steeler players are coming to his defense in regards to his character.

Again, so many fallacies. Several CURRENT players have already come forth on this topic.

You're obviously 1) a fan who shoots his mouth off about how great the Steelers organization is and your coworkers hate you for it so now they are paying you back and 2) a troll.

There is no sense reading anymore of your drivel. To the ignore list with you.

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 08:39 AM
Thanks bro. Steeler fans need to wake up. Had this been Dixon the 2 time SB champion with 2 allegations in a year, the Steeler faithful wouldnt be so forgiving. Now I have to go to work and hear all this RAPE crap all the time because our IDIOT qb can't stay out of trouble. There is NO excuse for this kind of behavior. Period. Funny EVERYONE close to the guy says the same thing about him. Pittsburgh business owners, Bradshaw, Whiz, Porter, Logan, Dookie, Sepulveda etc. And its Telling that NONE of the Steeler players are coming to his defense in regards to his character.

Again, so many fallacies. Several CURRENT players have already come forth on this topic.

You're obviously 1) a fan who shoots his mouth off about how great the Steelers organization is and your coworkers hate you for it so now they are paying you back and 2) a troll.

There is no sense reading anymore of your drivel. To the ignore list with you.

SHOW ME ONE player to come forward and say "Ben is not like that etc" I have seen them speaking in terms of him as a teammate. Being there as a teammate is different than them saying "Ben is not rapist. He is a stud with women. He has women all over him" Where are those comments? THEY DONT EXIST. TELLING.
Dont read anymore of my posts.
TRANSLATION: I CANT REFUTE THIS GUY SO I WILL BOW OUT GRACIOUSLY
LOL

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 08:40 AM
Troll LOL
Thats the CLASSIC defense machanism LOL

feltdizz
04-30-2010, 09:04 AM
Well... I was in an interview and the girl was cute... somehow Pittsburgh cam up and she is talking about Steeler bars and how her family's friend works for the Steelers so her family is "kinda Steeler fans"

I suggested she should become a full time Steeler fan and feel like a winner. She responds "ehhh not with that Ben Rapistburger.. I don't know about him"

Now, I know some blame the yinzers but after 2 allegations... Ben has work to do.
Trying to argue or justify Ben's situation to a pretty girl in a work situation will lead to nothing but problems.

One other thing... I find it odd how the bad in the report is all lies damn lies... but Ben nursing a beer at 3 to 4 bars is accepted as the absolute truth. Talk about homerism at it's finest. There is a report that the cops with Ben scrubbed the cameras with photos of him drinking. They are in trouble now as well...

The punishment has been handed down and accepted... to fight for Bens honor that night is a losing battle. He isn't a killer, he isn't a rapist... but he damn sure is perceived as a bad person who needs to redeem himself. Those who root for other teams in his absence or boycott the games he misses aren't helping his situation IMO... we need wins and we need momentum when he returns.

ikestops85
04-30-2010, 12:05 PM
Well... I was in an interview and the girl was cute... somehow Pittsburgh cam up and she is talking about Steeler bars and how her family's friend works for the Steelers so her family is "kinda Steeler fans"

I suggested she should become a full time Steeler fan and feel like a winner. She responds "ehhh not with that Ben Rapistburger.. I don't know about him"

Now, I know some blame the yinzers but after 2 allegations... Ben has work to do.
Trying to argue or justify Ben's situation to a pretty girl in a work situation will lead to nothing but problems.

One other thing... I find it odd how the bad in the report is all lies damn lies... but Ben nursing a beer at 3 to 4 bars is accepted as the absolute truth. Talk about homerism at it's finest. There is a report that the cops with Ben scrubbed the cameras with photos of him drinking. They are in trouble now as well...

The punishment has been handed down and accepted... to fight for Bens honor that night is a losing battle. He isn't a killer, he isn't a rapist... but he damn sure is perceived as a bad person who needs to redeem himself. Those who root for other teams in his absence or boycott the games he misses aren't helping his situation IMO... we need wins and we need momentum when he returns.

Felt ... here is the problem. Those who aren't crucifying Ben don't believe that the good things said about him are "the absolute truth". We just believe that there are 2 sides to the story. What I believe about the night is as follows

1) Ben went bar-hopping with some friends and body guards
2) Fans (including said party girls) followed Ben's group from bar to bar
3) They let Ben into the VIP room at the last bar
4) Ben asked the manager to let hot girls back into the VIP room
5) Ben bought drinks/shots for the group
6)Ben met girl in back hallway -- at who's suggestion we don't know. It could of been Ben's, the girls or a 3rd party.
7) The girls friends accuse Ben of sexually assaulting the girl

Now, aside from the VIP room and the report of sexual assault this senario plays out thousands of times a night in the U.S. We do not KNOW that Ben has done something evil. We do not KNOW that he hasn't. Our country was founded on the principles that you must be proven guilty. Ben has not been proven guilty.

That's the legal aspect. Is Ben a douchebag? Does he act like the perverbial BMOC? He might ... but who cares. I don't know anyone on this board who deals with him on a personal level. A lot of stars were/are arrogant asses. Many say Marino was. Warren Moon was known for knocking around his wife periodically. Even Bradshaw wasn't known as a good locker room guy. Steve Young is an insufferable arse NOW, as a TV analyst. I can only imagine how bad he was as a player.

I really don't care if the QB on my favorite team acts like an arse. I'll still root for the team and him. Now if he is ever convicted or admits to assault it will be a different story (see James Harrison).

cruzer8
04-30-2010, 12:13 PM
Well... I was in an interview and the girl was cute... somehow Pittsburgh cam up and she is talking about Steeler bars and how her family's friend works for the Steelers so her family is "kinda Steeler fans"

I suggested she should become a full time Steeler fan and feel like a winner. She responds "ehhh not with that Ben Rapistburger.. I don't know about him"

Now, I know some blame the yinzers but after 2 allegations... Ben has work to do.
Trying to argue or justify Ben's situation to a pretty girl in a work situation will lead to nothing but problems.

One other thing... I find it odd how the bad in the report is all lies damn lies... but Ben nursing a beer at 3 to 4 bars is accepted as the absolute truth. Talk about homerism at it's finest. There is a report that the cops with Ben scrubbed the cameras with photos of him drinking. They are in trouble now as well...

The punishment has been handed down and accepted... to fight for Bens honor that night is a losing battle. He isn't a killer, he isn't a rapist... but he damn sure is perceived as a bad person who needs to redeem himself. Those who root for other teams in his absence or boycott the games he misses aren't helping his situation IMO... we need wins and we need momentum when he returns.

Felt ... here is the problem. Those who aren't crucifying Ben don't believe that the good things said about him are "the absolute truth". We just believe that there are 2 sides to the story. What I believe about the night is as follows

1) Ben went bar-hopping with some friends and body guards
2) Fans (including said party girls) followed Ben's group from bar to bar
3) They let Ben into the VIP room at the last bar
4) Ben asked the manager to let hot girls back into the VIP room
5) Ben bought drinks/shots for the group
6)Ben met girl in back hallway -- at who's suggestion we don't know. It could of been Ben's, the girls or a 3rd party.
7) The girls friends accuse Ben of sexually assaulting the girl

Now, aside from the VIP room and the report of sexual assault this senario plays out thousands of times a night in the U.S. We do not KNOW that Ben has done something evil. We do not KNOW that he hasn't. Our country was founded on the principles that you must be proven guilty. Ben has not been proven guilty.

That's the legal aspect. Is Ben a douchebag? Does he act like the perverbial BMOC? He might ... but who cares. I don't know anyone on this board who deals with him on a personal level. A lot of stars were/are arrogant asses. Many say Marino was. Warren Moon was known for knocking around his wife periodically. Even Bradshaw wasn't known as a good locker room guy. Steve Young is an insufferable arse NOW, as a TV analyst. I can only imagine how bad he was as a player.

I really don't care if the QB on my favorite team acts like an arse. I'll still root for the team and him. Now if he is ever convicted or admits to assault it will be a different story (see James Harrison).

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

HeHateMe
05-01-2010, 02:17 AM
What he means is its ok for the white guy to get a charge but when the black guy does and admits it, I DRAW THE LINE. Ben had ample opportunity to tell his side of the story. HOW MANY OF US would let the media drag our name through the mud IF we didnt do what was being alleged? Goodell read that report WHY do you think he acted as such? WHEN have you heard of a suspect getting as LUCKY as Ben got? Surveilance tape erased. Crime scene destroyed. Victim backs out at the last minute. That's not suspicious? Again, IF you are not guilty you come out and SCREEM IT AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS. NONE of Ben's actions were that of an innocent man. Sorry, I'm a Steeler fan, not a Homer.