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Sugar
04-26-2010, 05:31 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/04/26/cowher- ... d-by-team/ (http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/04/26/cowher-says-roethlisberger-was-respected-by-team/)

There are varying reports that Ben Roethlisberger was not very popular with his teammates. Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher does not necessarily agree with that.

Cowher — who coached the enigmatic quarterback for three seasons — joined Boomer Esiason on WFAN in New York on Monday morning (via Sports Radio Interviews) and said that Roethlisberger was liked by his teammates. Of course, winning had a lot to do with it.

But his suspension could hurt that.

“You know what Boom, I think we like anybody that can help us win football games,” Cowher said. “I think there’s no question that this guy, on the football field is tremendously respected by his teammates and he’s respected by opponents. He’s a talent. The guy is an unbelievable competitor.

“He’s got a great feel for the game, but certainly with some of the things that have been brought on in the last couple of years, it kinda puts a damper on it. I think again, as you know, the bottom line is trying to win football games. …

“The one thing you want to make sure the players do is they don’t do anything to dampen your ability to win football games. What Ben has done is put himself in a situation where he’s gonna miss six games. Hopefully he’ll do the right thing and minimize that to four.”

Cowher added that he thought the suspension would be good for Roethlisberger and that this should be an eye-opener for the quarterback. And because of that, Cowher does not believe that Roethlisberger will be traded.

hawaiiansteel
04-26-2010, 06:16 PM
ON the football field, but definitely not off the field.




http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/04/26/cowher-says-roethlisberger-was-respected-by-team/

There are varying reports that Ben Roethlisberger was not very popular with his teammates. Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher does not necessarily agree with that.

Cowher — who coached the enigmatic quarterback for three seasons — joined Boomer Esiason on WFAN in New York on Monday morning (via Sports Radio Interviews) and said that Roethlisberger was liked by his teammates. Of course, winning had a lot to do with it.

But his suspension could hurt that.

“You know what Boom, I think we like anybody that can help us win football games,” Cowher said. “I think there’s no question that this guy, on the football field is tremendously respected by his teammates and he’s respected by opponents. He’s a talent. The guy is an unbelievable competitor.

“He’s got a great feel for the game, but certainly with some of the things that have been brought on in the last couple of years, it kinda puts a damper on it. I think again, as you know, the bottom line is trying to win football games. …

“The one thing you want to make sure the players do is they don’t do anything to dampen your ability to win football games. What Ben has done is put himself in a situation where he’s gonna miss six games. Hopefully he’ll do the right thing and minimize that to four.”

Cowher added that he thought the suspension would be good for Roethlisberger and that this should be an eye-opener for the quarterback. And because of that, Cowher does not believe that Roethlisberger will be traded.

JAR
04-26-2010, 06:17 PM
But Florio says it isn't true.


Asked by Esiason whether Roethlisberger is well liked in the Steelers' locker room, Cowher gave an answer that sounded a little uncomfortable and suggested that what the Steelers like about Roethlisberger is confined to what he does on Sundays.

"Uh, you know, I mean, you know what Boom, I think it's all," Cowher stammered at first, before continuing, "I think we like anybody that can help us win football games."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... uspension/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/26/cowher-approves-of-roethlisberger-suspension/)

fezziwig
04-26-2010, 06:43 PM
If he isn't liked by the team or in the locker room, what could be the reasons ?

hawaiiansteel
04-26-2010, 06:46 PM
If he isn't liked by the team or in the locker room, what could be the reasons ?



Ben is an arrogant d*ck?

fezziwig
04-26-2010, 06:51 PM
I thought he was just that way to waitresses, fans, children, reporters and basically the general public ? I thought at least he would be able to muster up enough humility to treat his team with some personality.

Shawn
04-26-2010, 06:58 PM
I really could care less if he is an arrogant d*ck. What I don't want is him getting himself suspended, doing ish to get himself traded or bring negative attention on this team. It would be nice if our QB was a terrific, charismatic, and loveable teddy bear. But, he isn't. He is however an elite talent with 2 SB rings. I'll take that anyday over a Tim Tebow type that can't throw his way out of a wet paper sack.

RuthlessBurgher
04-26-2010, 08:08 PM
I really could care less if he is an arrogant d*ck. What I don't want is him getting himself suspended, doing ish to get himself traded or bring negative attention on this team. It would be nice if our QB was a terrific, charismatic, and loveable teddy bear. But, he isn't. He is however an elite talent with 2 SB rings. I'll take that anyday over a Tim Tebow type that can't throw his way out of a wet paper sack.

It is precisely his arrogant d*ck behavior which is getting him in questionable situations that bring negative attention to the team, getting himself suspended, and potentially getting himself traded. The league isn't suspending him because Goodell has some magical evidence that was unavailable to the Georgia D.A. which proves that Ben is some kind of a sexual predator. The commissioner is suspending him because his continued arrogant d*ck behavior is an embarrassment to himsef, his family, his team, the fans, and the league. If he stops being an arrogant d*ck to everyone, he shouldn't have any problems. His mandated behavior profile will simply state "You are an arrogant d*ck" (I'm sure there should be a DSM-IV criteria for that), and he will receive treatment which will hopefully prevent further arrogant d*ck behavior in the future. Problem solved.

The allegation of him exposing his genitals and saying "you can do what you want" is a perfect concrete illustration of being an arrogant d*ck. Randomly exposing yourself at inopportune times and pointing at your junk is saying "look at me, I am a d*ck." And having the gall to say "you can do what you want" to my exposed penis is the height of arrogance. Therefore, he is an arrogant d*ck. Case closed.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-26-2010, 08:13 PM
I really could care less if he is an arrogant d*ck. What I don't want is him getting himself suspended, doing ish to get himself traded or bring negative attention on this team. It would be nice if our QB was a terrific, charismatic, and loveable teddy bear. But, he isn't. He is however an elite talent with 2 SB rings. I'll take that anyday over a Tim Tebow type that can't throw his way out of a wet paper sack.

It is precisely his arrogant d*ck behavior which is getting him in questionable situations that bring negative attention to the team, getting himself suspended, and potentially getting himself traded. The league isn't suspending him because Goodell has some magical evidence that was unavailable to the Georgia D.A. which proves that Ben is some kind of a sexual predator. The commissioner is suspending him because his continued arrogant d*ck behavior is an embarrassment to himsef, his family, his team, the fans, and the league. If he stops being an arrogant d*ck to everyone, he shouldn't have any problems. His mandated behavior profile will simply state "You are an arrogant d*ck" (I'm sure there should be a DSM-IV criteria for that), and he will receive treatment which will hopefully prevent further arrogant d*ck behavior in the future. Problem solved.

The allegation of him exposing his genitals and saying "you can do what you want" is a perfect concrete illustration of being an arrogant d*ck. Randomly exposing yourself at inopportune times and pointing at your junk is saying "look at me, I am a d*ck." And having the gall to say "you can do what you want" to my exposed penis is the height of arrogance. Therefore, he is an arrogant d*ck. Case closed.

IF he really did do and say that, an alternative explanation could just be that he has a very off-beat sense of humor. You know, like that sock puppet commercial of a few years ago. :P

fezziwig
04-26-2010, 09:39 PM
I really could care less if he is an arrogant d*ck. What I don't want is him getting himself suspended, doing ish to get himself traded or bring negative attention on this team. It would be nice if our QB was a terrific, charismatic, and loveable teddy bear. But, he isn't. He is however an elite talent with 2 SB rings. I'll take that anyday over a Tim Tebow type that can't throw his way out of a wet paper sack.

It is precisely his arrogant d*ck behavior which is getting him in questionable situations that bring negative attention to the team, getting himself suspended, and potentially getting himself traded. The league isn't suspending him because Goodell has some magical evidence that was unavailable to the Georgia D.A. which proves that Ben is some kind of a sexual predator. The commissioner is suspending him because his continued arrogant d*ck behavior is an embarrassment to himsef, his family, his team, the fans, and the league. If he stops being an arrogant d*ck to everyone, he shouldn't have any problems. His mandated behavior profile will simply state "You are an arrogant d*ck" (I'm sure there should be a DSM-IV criteria for that), and he will receive treatment which will hopefully prevent further arrogant d*ck behavior in the future. Problem solved.

The allegation of him exposing his genitals and saying "you can do what you want" is a perfect concrete illustration of being an arrogant d*ck. Randomly exposing yourself at inopportune times and pointing at your junk is saying "look at me, I am a d*ck." And having the gall to say "you can do what you want" to my exposed penis is the height of arrogance. Therefore, he is an arrogant d*ck. Case closed.



Is this what had occured in the bathroom in Georgia ?

RuthlessBurgher
04-26-2010, 09:57 PM
I really could care less if he is an arrogant d*ck. What I don't want is him getting himself suspended, doing ish to get himself traded or bring negative attention on this team. It would be nice if our QB was a terrific, charismatic, and loveable teddy bear. But, he isn't. He is however an elite talent with 2 SB rings. I'll take that anyday over a Tim Tebow type that can't throw his way out of a wet paper sack.

It is precisely his arrogant d*ck behavior which is getting him in questionable situations that bring negative attention to the team, getting himself suspended, and potentially getting himself traded. The league isn't suspending him because Goodell has some magical evidence that was unavailable to the Georgia D.A. which proves that Ben is some kind of a sexual predator. The commissioner is suspending him because his continued arrogant d*ck behavior is an embarrassment to himsef, his family, his team, the fans, and the league. If he stops being an arrogant d*ck to everyone, he shouldn't have any problems. His mandated behavior profile will simply state "You are an arrogant d*ck" (I'm sure there should be a DSM-IV criteria for that), and he will receive treatment which will hopefully prevent further arrogant d*ck behavior in the future. Problem solved.

The allegation of him exposing his genitals and saying "you can do what you want" is a perfect concrete illustration of being an arrogant d*ck. Randomly exposing yourself at inopportune times and pointing at your junk is saying "look at me, I am a d*ck." And having the gall to say "you can do what you want" to my exposed penis is the height of arrogance. Therefore, he is an arrogant d*ck. Case closed.



Is this what had occured in the bathroom in Georgia ?

No...this is supposedly what he said to some other young Southern belle who was at his Georgia house for a party that took place well before this Milledgeville bar fiasco.

Ben appartently seems to take the "Rock Out With Your <Rooster> Out" a bit too literally sometimes. Could be worse, I suppose...he could be like his old buddy Plex who liked to "Rock Out With His Glock Out."

feltdizz
04-26-2010, 10:35 PM
Ben reminds me of Kobe a lot. LOL... Both had "trouble" off the field amd both are rumored to be arrogant azzz's in the lockerroom but their game has to be respected. I think part of the hate is the amount of money and influence they have over the FO. When other players are up for contract negotiations guess who they look at with frustration? The 100 million dollar man.

Ben admitted he was a bad teammate before... who knows how bad he really is though in the locker room.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-26-2010, 10:43 PM
Ben reminds me of Kobe a lot. LOL... Both had "trouble" off the field amd both are rumored to be arrogant azzz's in the lockerroom but their game has to be respected. I think part of the hate is the amount of money and influence they have over the FO. When other players are up for contract negotiations guess who they look at with frustration? The 100 million dollar man.

Ben admitted he was a bad teammate before... who knows how bad he really is though in the locker room.

He also is a great team-mate in some demonstrable ways - always covering for his O-line when they get him killed (think Peyton Manning ... then do a 180), taking them out on trips, etc. Also, watch film of him and Hines at the end of XLIII, holding hands while the defense tries to shut down one last Warner drive - that was real closeness, nothing but.

So, he may have work to do in the locker room, but to paint him as a sociopath I think is probably a bit over the top.

dizz - from your recent posts, I have to ask - would you rather that Ben played for another team this year?

feltdizz
04-26-2010, 11:28 PM
Ben reminds me of Kobe a lot. LOL... Both had "trouble" off the field amd both are rumored to be arrogant azzz's in the lockerroom but their game has to be respected. I think part of the hate is the amount of money and influence they have over the FO. When other players are up for contract negotiations guess who they look at with frustration? The 100 million dollar man.

Ben admitted he was a bad teammate before... who knows how bad he really is though in the locker room.

He also is a great team-mate in some demonstrable ways - always covering for his O-line when they get him killed (think Peyton Manning ... then do a 180), taking them out on trips, etc. Also, watch film of him and Hines at the end of XLIII, holding hands while the defense tries to shut down one last Warner drive - that was real closeness, nothing but.

So, he may have work to do in the locker room, but to paint him as a sociopath I think is probably a bit over the top.

dizz - from your recent posts, I have to ask - would you rather that Ben played for another team this year?

How did I imply he was a sociopath? I was actually implying Ben was being hard on himself when admitting being a bad teammate. Who knows what he thinks being a bad teammate is and who knows how bad he is in the locker room. If it came across as the opposite I apologize.

Now the whole point of this thread was pointing out if Cowher was suggesting Ben is respected because he wins and not because he is a Bettis type... not that he has to be.

One more thing... pointing out the chinks in Ben's armor doesn't mean I want him gone. Please show one post where I said trade Ben. You can't because I never ever said anything of the sort. I'm hard on Ben because he gives us the best chance to win.... but he also keeps us on the edge of our seat in the offseason and once again our season is up in the air due to his off field decisions.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-27-2010, 08:40 AM
I will take Cowher's word over Florio's on this. And I will take his words at face instead of as a lie because he was supposedly stammering. Can we now also detect truth from Cowher based on how many drops of spit come from his mouth?

I would think that the O line loves the guy. He took them away for a birthday one time, he always defends them no matter how bad they play, and aftre receiving the Lombardi trophy after XLIII he shows it to them and asks "who's laughing now Oline?"

As for everyone else, there may be some in there that don't like him, but I'm sure that applies to every player on every 53 man roster in the league. I would doubt that it equals up to "a locker room divided".

AngryAsian
04-27-2010, 09:04 AM
Ben reminds me of Kobe a lot. LOL... Both had "trouble" off the field amd both are rumored to be arrogant azzz's in the lockerroom but their game has to be respected. I think part of the hate is the amount of money and influence they have over the FO. When other players are up for contract negotiations guess who they look at with frustration? The 100 million dollar man.

Ben admitted he was a bad teammate before... who knows how bad he really is though in the locker room.


I see the parallel you are trying to create here, dizz... but I disagree. Kobe had two factors on his side that spoke volumes for PR rehabilitation. One, he's a family guy with two young children... two, Kobe had plenty of endorsements deals that banked on his squeaky clean image. I think both factors I mentioned have been key elements in insuring Kobe didn't continue to his spiral down the abyss of infamy. Whether its the love and respect of his children or the millions of dollars from endorsement deals that impacts his net worth, Kobe has factors that has helped him rescue himself from himself. I'm not saying Ben isn't capable... but I don't see any rehabilitative factors on his side other than shame.

Doogie36
04-27-2010, 09:11 AM
Ok guys its time to focus here.....everyone do me a favor and look at my girls butt to the left and then take a deep breath and lets focus here...........FOCUS FOCUS....

BIG BEN!!!!!

1. This is the same guy who took his OLINE to detroit to build team bonding and that did what for the team???? WON THE SUPERBOWL.
2. Its the same guy who on National Television during the most watched show in the WORLD said the following.....OLINE??? WHOS LAUGHING NOW???? He didnt brag about himself up there holding a trophy.
3. Same guy who fights for a guy you all hate...BA..........
4. Same guy who promised BUS a superbowl.......Same guy who hands BUS all the playoff balls, same guy who hugged and cried a little after superbowl XL.......
5. Same guy who you see talking to HOLMES about his first superbowl and telling him he'll get him the ball early....Who was the guy who caught the game winner again??
6. Same guy you see holding TOMLINS hand during that superbowl......that pic is my ALL TIME FAVORITE STEELER PICTURE...........
7. Same guy who goes up and down on the sideline telling the OLINE good job and that it was ALL THEM that drive!!!!!!!!
8. Same guy who you see talking to Mendenhall about holding onto the ball........
9. Same guy who during training camp the year they won superbowl XL was out 45 minutes before everyone else signing autographs. That year they said he was always out early signing. I got my jersey signed. I'm sure some years he doesnt like last year and other years....Was he overly friendly???? Not really but he signed his ass off and the less he talked the more that got signed.......
10. Same guy who did make a wish!!!!!!!
11. Same guy who buys police dogs for other cities beside PITT.
12. Same guy who held Hines Hand on the sideline and actually gets into the game and watches the defense.
13. Same guy who told TROY during the AFC Championship game that hes AWESOME. Ever see Payton say that to his defense??? what did Payton say about his OLINE during the loss to the steelers that one year???? OH WE HAD SOME PROTECTION PROBLEMS....I mean lets get real here..........

In fact I love the steelers because they actually get involved....that year Leftwich ran for a TD and Casey Hampton was laughing at him and making fun of his run.......Our team actually gets into the game and each other......You dont see that on other teams like you do with the STEELERS.............

I'm sure there are more but it doesnt matter.........The guy is a team player........all his post game interviews is like listening to the white version of TOMLIN..........Game winning TD Throw in the superbowl he said the play was pump once, pump twice, get open......or something crazy.......he didnt say oh i audibled at the line....i made this decision...I did that..........he thought it was PICKED and so DID I...........he isnt about himself.

YES HES 26.....yes he puts himself in bad situations.............Yes he called this girl a tease in bar #1 and ends up doing something in bar #3 with her..........she wore a DTF badge....I mean come on...........who hasnt done something at the age of 26???? Doesnt mean he's not liked in the locker room or on the team..............COME ON!!!! This is just DUMB talk..............he was out with a teammate.....how is he not liked and out with a teammate???? I bet these guys are probably laughing about this crap and will give him a hard time........MOORE was on the VIKING SHIP wasnt he with the escorts????? Wasnt he????? We all LOVE him..................

Lets focus!!!!!!!! This is one bad drunken night!!!!!

My brother bought us beer when I was 19....he was 22.........He took a friend of mine to the high school parking lot after she had been drinking and now they are married. He contributed to a minor, had sex with her and then married her.................So it happens.................................lets keep it real people.............


LETS GOOO STEELERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leper Friend
04-27-2010, 09:34 AM
I really could care less if he is an arrogant d*ck. What I don't want is him getting himself suspended, doing ish to get himself traded or bring negative attention on this team. It would be nice if our QB was a terrific, charismatic, and loveable teddy bear. But, he isn't. He is however an elite talent with 2 SB rings. I'll take that anyday over a Tim Tebow type that can't throw his way out of a wet paper sack.
Well said.

Why does anyone care what his personality is outside of his personality getting him in trouble ? That's the only thing that should be an issue.Other than that , he can be as big of a d*ck as he wants.

His personality didn't seem to be an issue when they were winning Super Bowls.

feltdizz
04-27-2010, 10:47 AM
Ben reminds me of Kobe a lot. LOL... Both had "trouble" off the field amd both are rumored to be arrogant azzz's in the lockerroom but their game has to be respected. I think part of the hate is the amount of money and influence they have over the FO. When other players are up for contract negotiations guess who they look at with frustration? The 100 million dollar man.

Ben admitted he was a bad teammate before... who knows how bad he really is though in the locker room.


I see the parallel you are trying to create here, dizz... but I disagree. Kobe had two factors on his side that spoke volumes for PR rehabilitation. One, he's a family guy with two young children... two, Kobe had plenty of endorsements deals that banked on his squeaky clean image. I think both factors I mentioned have been key elements in insuring Kobe didn't continue to his spiral down the abyss of infamy. Whether its the love and respect of his children or the millions of dollars from endorsement deals that impacts his net worth, Kobe has factors that has helped him rescue himself from himself. I'm not saying Ben isn't capable... but I don't see any rehabilitative factors on his side other than shame.

I'm not really comparing their off field issues. They are strikingly similar though and Kobe wasn't clean or a family man right after his charge... he was Ben in terms of the PR nightmare... it also happened during the season so Kobe was able to play his way out of the nightmare.

My comparison is based on the respect Kobe gets from his teammates. It's not because he is a great team player or locker room anchor... it's because he is a winner. Cowher implied Ben was respected because he won games. It can be said that winning is all that matters in terms of respect... but if you get suspended or have off field issues it can magnify things and it doesn't help the team win games. The stories about Ben and film or poor practices never come up after a 300 yard 2TD game...they come up after a 5 sack loss... winning trumps all.

ikestops85
04-27-2010, 11:42 AM
Ok guys its time to focus here.....everyone do me a favor and look at my girls butt to the left and then take a deep breath and lets focus here...........FOCUS FOCUS....

BIG BEN!!!!!

1. This is the same guy who took his OLINE to detroit to build team bonding and that did what for the team???? WON THE SUPERBOWL.
2. Its the same guy who on National Television during the most watched show in the WORLD said the following.....OLINE??? WHOS LAUGHING NOW???? He didnt brag about himself up there holding a trophy.
3. Same guy who fights for a guy you all hate...BA..........
4. Same guy who promised BUS a superbowl.......Same guy who hands BUS all the playoff balls, same guy who hugged and cried a little after superbowl XL.......
5. Same guy who you see talking to HOLMES about his first superbowl and telling him he'll get him the ball early....Who was the guy who caught the game winner again??
6. Same guy you see holding TOMLINS hand during that superbowl......that pic is my ALL TIME FAVORITE STEELER PICTURE...........
7. Same guy who goes up and down on the sideline telling the OLINE good job and that it was ALL THEM that drive!!!!!!!!
8. Same guy who you see talking to Mendenhall about holding onto the ball........
9. Same guy who during training camp the year they won superbowl XL was out 45 minutes before everyone else signing autographs. That year they said he was always out early signing. I got my jersey signed. I'm sure some years he doesnt like last year and other years....Was he overly friendly???? Not really but he signed his bad word off and the less he talked the more that got signed.......
10. Same guy who did make a wish!!!!!!!
11. Same guy who buys police dogs for other cities beside PITT.
12. Same guy who held Hines Hand on the sideline and actually gets into the game and watches the defense.
13. Same guy who told TROY during the AFC Championship game that hes AWESOME. Ever see Payton say that to his defense??? what did Payton say about his OLINE during the loss to the steelers that one year???? OH WE HAD SOME PROTECTION PROBLEMS....I mean lets get real here..........

In fact I love the steelers because they actually get involved....that year Leftwich ran for a TD and Casey Hampton was laughing at him and making fun of his run.......Our team actually gets into the game and each other......You dont see that on other teams like you do with the STEELERS.............

I'm sure there are more but it doesnt matter.........The guy is a team player........all his post game interviews is like listening to the white version of TOMLIN..........Game winning TD Throw in the superbowl he said the play was pump once, pump twice, get open......or something crazy.......he didnt say oh i audibled at the line....i made this decision...I did that..........he thought it was PICKED and so DID I...........he isnt about himself.

YES HES 26.....yes he puts himself in bad situations.............Yes he called this girl a tease in bar #1 and ends up doing something in bar #3 with her..........she wore a DTF badge....I mean come on...........who hasnt done something at the age of 26???? Doesnt mean he's not liked in the locker room or on the team..............COME ON!!!! This is just DUMB talk..............he was out with a teammate.....how is he not liked and out with a teammate???? I bet these guys are probably laughing about this crap and will give him a hard time........MOORE was on the VIKING SHIP wasnt he with the escorts????? Wasnt he????? We all LOVE him..................

Lets focus!!!!!!!! This is one bad drunken night!!!!!

My brother bought us beer when I was 19....he was 22.........He took a friend of mine to the high school parking lot after she had been drinking and now they are married. He contributed to a minor, had sex with her and then married her.................So it happens.................................lets keep it real people.............


LETS GOOO STEELERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post of the YEAR!!!

By the way ... Goodell just suspended your brother for the season :lol:

HeHateMe
04-29-2010, 10:02 PM
Ben is not Kobe. Kobe is an ASSASSIN. The best in the game for years. Ben has never been the best. Ben is FORTUNATE to play for the Steelers. Kobe would be one of the best on the worst team. But Ben on the Rams and he'd SUCK. Kobe is a Hall of Famer Ben is not. Ben has one Pro Bowl Kobe is a All Star game regular. Kobe is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is not. Ben won a SB in 05 with the worst qb performance in history. Yes he played well in games leading up to SB 40 but thats due in part to the #1 rushing game in the NFL. They expected run and Whiz called passes. SB 43 we were lead by the #1 defense. In fact Ben has ONE TD pass and THREE Ints. He is HARDLY the reason we have 2 rings in his tenure. We rode Ben last season (His best year) and we went 9-7.

cruzer8
04-29-2010, 10:06 PM
Ben is not Kobe. Kobe is an ASSASSIN. The best in the game for years. Ben has never been the best. Ben is FORTUNATE to play for the Steelers. Kobe would be one of the best on the worst team. But Ben on the Rams and he'd SUCK. Kobe is a Hall of Famer Ben is not. Ben has one Pro Bowl Kobe is a All Star game regular. Kobe is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is not. Ben won a SB in 05 with the worst qb performance in history. Yes he played well in games leading up to SB 40 but thats due in part to the #1 rushing game in the NFL. They expected run and Whiz called passes. SB 43 we were lead by the #1 defense. In fact Ben has ONE TD pass and THREE Ints. He is HARDLY the reason we have 2 rings in his tenure. We rode Ben last season (His best year) and we went 9-7.

Strike two.

HeHateMe
04-29-2010, 10:26 PM
Ben is not Kobe. Kobe is an ASSASSIN. The best in the game for years. Ben has never been the best. Ben is FORTUNATE to play for the Steelers. Kobe would be one of the best on the worst team. But Ben on the Rams and he'd SUCK. Kobe is a Hall of Famer Ben is not. Ben has one Pro Bowl Kobe is a All Star game regular. Kobe is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is not. Ben won a SB in 05 with the worst qb performance in history. Yes he played well in games leading up to SB 40 but thats due in part to the #1 rushing game in the NFL. They expected run and Whiz called passes. SB 43 we were lead by the #1 defense. In fact Ben has ONE TD pass and THREE Ints. He is HARDLY the reason we have 2 rings in his tenure. We rode Ben last season (His best year) and we went 9-7.

Strike two.
IF I posted anything that wasnt accurate. Please feel free to point them out.

frankthetank1
04-29-2010, 11:07 PM
Ben is not Kobe. Kobe is an ASSASSIN. The best in the game for years. Ben has never been the best. Ben is FORTUNATE to play for the Steelers. Kobe would be one of the best on the worst team. But Ben on the Rams and he'd SUCK. Kobe is a Hall of Famer Ben is not. Ben has one Pro Bowl Kobe is a All Star game regular. Kobe is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is not. Ben won a SB in 05 with the worst qb performance in history. Yes he played well in games leading up to SB 40 but thats due in part to the #1 rushing game in the NFL. They expected run and Whiz called passes. SB 43 we were lead by the #1 defense. In fact Ben has ONE TD pass and THREE Ints. He is HARDLY the reason we have 2 rings in his tenure. We rode Ben last season (His best year) and we went 9-7.

you talk about kobe as if he were jordan. kobe needs a lot more around him to win championships then jordan did. kobe isnt anything without the team around him just like most players. kobe finally one a championship without shaq but it took a while to build the team around kobe. if ben were on a crap team like the rams he would still put up good numbers. ben maybe isnt a hall of famer yet but kobe didnt go to college and is older than ben. in the 2005 post season besides the sb ben was amazing. who cares if the defenses facing the steelers expected the run ben still completed the passes. i guess joe montana wasnt all that clutch, after all in the sb against the bengals the defense was double teaming jerry rice and left john taylor wide open.

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 07:48 AM
Ben is not Kobe. Kobe is an ASSASSIN. The best in the game for years. Ben has never been the best. Ben is FORTUNATE to play for the Steelers. Kobe would be one of the best on the worst team. But Ben on the Rams and he'd SUCK. Kobe is a Hall of Famer Ben is not. Ben has one Pro Bowl Kobe is a All Star game regular. Kobe is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is not. Ben won a SB in 05 with the worst qb performance in history. Yes he played well in games leading up to SB 40 but thats due in part to the #1 rushing game in the NFL. They expected run and Whiz called passes. SB 43 we were lead by the #1 defense. In fact Ben has ONE TD pass and THREE Ints. He is HARDLY the reason we have 2 rings in his tenure. We rode Ben last season (His best year) and we went 9-7.

you talk about kobe as if he were jordan. kobe needs a lot more around him to win championships then jordan did. kobe isnt anything without the team around him just like most players. kobe finally one a championship without shaq but it took a while to build the team around kobe. if ben were on a crap team like the rams he would still put up good numbers. ben maybe isnt a hall of famer yet but kobe didnt go to college and is older than ben. in the 2005 post season besides the sb ben was amazing. who cares if the defenses facing the steelers expected the run ben still completed the passes. i guess joe montana wasnt all that clutch, after all in the sb against the bengals the defense was double teaming jerry rice and left john taylor wide open.


I don't talk about Kobe like he is Jordan. I talk about Kobe like he is the best player in the league the last 8 or 9 years. Ben has NEVER been that. No comparrison. How many rings did Jordan win without Pippen. Kobe won without Shaq. You say Ben would put up good numbers on the rams? I disagree. He leads the league in SACKS on a TOP team. What do you think would happen on a bottom team? It took Ben 6 years to put up good numbers for the Steelers and what was the result of those numbers? Go ahead and blame the defense. That SAME defense got us a ring in 08 and not Ben. Thats right we won in 08 with our qb committing TWENTY THREE turnovers. Funny the Rams wouldnt trade Bradford for Ben. Telling. Ben was amazing in 05 post season BECAUSE of the # 1 running game in the league. They expected run and we passed. What did he do in the SB wihen Holmgren took away that run? He sucked. Had we played a better team than the Seagals we would have lost. Joe Montana NEVER had a defense like Ben OR a running game like Ben and he still won FOUR. He STILL played lights out in the big game. Whereas Ben has ONE TD and THREE ints in the big game. Montana has ELEVEN Td's and ZERO Ints in the Big game. Oh by the way he also has THREE SB MVPs. Ben has ZERO. Montana looked great against all time defenses like the Bears D, The Giants (LT) and a great team like the Skins. Montana was rich, handsome and a woman magnet and NEVER had one Sexual Allegation. Kobe and Montana DESTROY the competition. Ben does JUST ENOUGH to get by. With a dominant defense like the Steelers have Ben should NEVER have to come from behind. It's an indictment against him. The Great Terry Bradshaw utilized his great defense by putting points on the board, not having to come from hehind as a result of putt putting along all game

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 08:14 AM
I wonder IF Maddox or Dixon had thrown ONE TD and THREE ints in Steeler SB wins would they be lauded as this great SB Champion and winner like Ben is. Or would the truth be told. "They were just game managers who happened to make plays here and there to help us win"

cruzer8
04-30-2010, 08:17 AM
Troll.

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 08:20 AM
Troll.
The TYPICAL response when you can't refute what is being said. The Troll would be BEN. You know the guy that has our TEAM disgraced? I'm a troll and Ben is a savior?
Telling

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 08:28 AM
Also, how come no WOMEN are coming forth and defending this guy? "Ben is not like that. He is a gentle guy" etc. Heck EVEN MICHAEL JACKSON had people vouching for him when he had allegations.

cruzer8
04-30-2010, 08:33 AM
Troll.
The TYPICAL response when you can't refute what is being said. The Troll would be BEN. You know the guy that has our TEAM disgraced? I'm a troll and Ben is a savior?
Telling

I don't have the time to refute all of the fallacies with your post.

Troll.

feltdizz
04-30-2010, 08:41 AM
The Kobe comparisson was for RESPECTED FOR WINNING purposes only. Damn... Talk about easily distracted. Look at the thread title and try to focus... :mrgreen:

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 08:42 AM
Troll.
The TYPICAL response when you can't refute what is being said. The Troll would be BEN. You know the guy that has our TEAM disgraced? I'm a troll and Ben is a savior?
Telling

I don't have the time to refute all of the fallacies with your post.

Troll.
TRANSLATION- I CANT REFUTE HIM SO I WILL RESORT TO COLLATERAL ATTACKS LOL
TROLL
LOL
CLASSIC WAVING OF THE WHITE FLAG

frankthetank1
04-30-2010, 10:14 AM
Ben is not Kobe. Kobe is an ASSASSIN. The best in the game for years. Ben has never been the best. Ben is FORTUNATE to play for the Steelers. Kobe would be one of the best on the worst team. But Ben on the Rams and he'd SUCK. Kobe is a Hall of Famer Ben is not. Ben has one Pro Bowl Kobe is a All Star game regular. Kobe is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is not. Ben won a SB in 05 with the worst qb performance in history. Yes he played well in games leading up to SB 40 but thats due in part to the #1 rushing game in the NFL. They expected run and Whiz called passes. SB 43 we were lead by the #1 defense. In fact Ben has ONE TD pass and THREE Ints. He is HARDLY the reason we have 2 rings in his tenure. We rode Ben last season (His best year) and we went 9-7.

you talk about kobe as if he were jordan. kobe needs a lot more around him to win championships then jordan did. kobe isnt anything without the team around him just like most players. kobe finally one a championship without shaq but it took a while to build the team around kobe. if ben were on a crap team like the rams he would still put up good numbers. ben maybe isnt a hall of famer yet but kobe didnt go to college and is older than ben. in the 2005 post season besides the sb ben was amazing. who cares if the defenses facing the steelers expected the run ben still completed the passes. i guess joe montana wasnt all that clutch, after all in the sb against the bengals the defense was double teaming jerry rice and left john taylor wide open.


I don't talk about Kobe like he is Jordan. I talk about Kobe like he is the best player in the league the last 8 or 9 years. Ben has NEVER been that. No comparrison. How many rings did Jordan win without Pippen. Kobe won without Shaq. You say Ben would put up good numbers on the rams? I disagree. He leads the league in SACKS on a TOP team. What do you think would happen on a bottom team? It took Ben 6 years to put up good numbers for the Steelers and what was the result of those numbers? Go ahead and blame the defense. That SAME defense got us a ring in 08 and not Ben. Thats right we won in 08 with our qb committing TWENTY THREE turnovers. Funny the Rams wouldnt trade Bradford for Ben. Telling. Ben was amazing in 05 post season BECAUSE of the # 1 running game in the league. They expected run and we passed. What did he do in the SB wihen Holmgren took away that run? He sucked. Had we played a better team than the Seagals we would have lost. Joe Montana NEVER had a defense like Ben OR a running game like Ben and he still won FOUR. He STILL played lights out in the big game. Whereas Ben has ONE TD and THREE ints in the big game. Montana has ELEVEN Td's and ZERO Ints in the Big game. Oh by the way he also has THREE SB MVPs. Ben has ZERO. Montana looked great against all time defenses like the Bears D, The Giants (LT) and a great team like the Skins. Montana was rich, handsome and a woman magnet and NEVER had one Sexual Allegation. Kobe and Montana DESTROY the competition. Ben does JUST ENOUGH to get by. With a dominant defense like the Steelers have Ben should NEVER have to come from behind. It's an indictment against him. The Great Terry Bradshaw utilized his great defense by putting points on the board, not having to come from hehind as a result of putt putting along all game

joe montana had a very good defense and a great running game. roger craig was a hell of a lot better than willie parker and an old bus. kobe isnt the best player. lebron has been better than him for some time. even now chris paul i would say is better than kobe. pippen haha? really? shaq is a hall of famer, pippen was a good player but not great. jordan won rings with very little help and a lot less than what kobe has had. imo ben should have one sb mvp. he threw two perfect passes against the cards in 08 only one of the passes were caught. i always thought it was stupid that holmes got the mvp since he dropped the first td pass. the rams not wanting to trade bradford for ben is because they are the rams. some teams do not make good moves the rams are one of them. bradford for ben are you kidding me? if you wouldnt make that trade if you are the rams GM than you are an idiot. bradford hasnt proven anything except that he has problems getting through an 11 game season

frankthetank1
04-30-2010, 10:27 AM
The Kobe comparisson was for RESPECTED FOR WINNING purposes only. Damn... Talk about easily distracted. Look at the thread title and try to focus... :mrgreen:

sorry when someone brings up bball i cant resist. i guess it would be the same thing if i was on a celtics MB and someone brought up football.

aggiebones
04-30-2010, 11:30 AM
5I get the feeling Manning is also an arrogant D*CK too. He isn't respected by his own players either...to a degree/ Go watch the argument between he and Saturday. All pro players think they are the man. Saturday didn't agree with Manning and they apparently had had similar encounters before.
Fact is you don't like guys on your team all the time. Not everyone can run the show and when you are the one running it, there's second guessers standing right next to you.
Its clear that some of the guys hang out with Ben and like him. Does everyone, no. Alot of the OL hang out with him. Ward is chippy and says alot of stuff, but I don't get the feeling he doesn't like Ben. What WR doesn't harass his QB all day long. They want the ball on every play and can get open every play. It is what it is. Its clear that there was a time he and Bettis were very close. That changed but more because Bettis was trying to make a living reporting intimate details about the Steeler's locker room, which I always thought was in bad taste. Same as Tiki Barber was doing. I thought it was pretty lame by both of them.

So, don't believe everything you hear. People love to divide a team and make drama cause that's how they get noticed and paid. The team has responded very well under Ben as evidence of the 2 Super Bowls. Ben bailed them out last Super Bowl and they will always appreciate him for that at a minimum. And if you don't think when they all retire and look at that ring when noone is around that they don't remember that last drive between ham and Santonio, then you are fooling yourself.
They are all praying right now that Ben gets all this squared away and can be their teammate again. Period!

feltdizz
04-30-2010, 02:50 PM
Peyton and Saturday arguing in the heat of battle is not a big deal. If anything it showedme Saturday is willing to stand up for what he believed would help win the game. If we used players arguing during a game every team has players guilty of being azzholes.

now peyton and the drunk kicker arguing in the offseason or Hines calling out Ben out TV was much bigger IMO. When you call out your teammate in the press it shows a lack of respect IMO.

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 03:47 PM
Troll.
The TYPICAL response when you can't refute what is being said. The Troll would be BEN. You know the guy that has our TEAM disgraced? I'm a troll and Ben is a savior?
Telling

I don't have the time to refute all of the fallacies with your post.

Troll.
TRANSLATION: I cant refute it. LOL
Troll

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 03:56 PM
Ben is not Kobe. Kobe is an ASSASSIN. The best in the game for years. Ben has never been the best. Ben is FORTUNATE to play for the Steelers. Kobe would be one of the best on the worst team. But Ben on the Rams and he'd SUCK. Kobe is a Hall of Famer Ben is not. Ben has one Pro Bowl Kobe is a All Star game regular. Kobe is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is not. Ben won a SB in 05 with the worst qb performance in history. Yes he played well in games leading up to SB 40 but thats due in part to the #1 rushing game in the NFL. They expected run and Whiz called passes. SB 43 we were lead by the #1 defense. In fact Ben has ONE TD pass and THREE Ints. He is HARDLY the reason we have 2 rings in his tenure. We rode Ben last season (His best year) and we went 9-7.

you talk about kobe as if he were jordan. kobe needs a lot more around him to win championships then jordan did. kobe isnt anything without the team around him just like most players. kobe finally one a championship without shaq but it took a while to build the team around kobe. if ben were on a crap team like the rams he would still put up good numbers. ben maybe isnt a hall of famer yet but kobe didnt go to college and is older than ben. in the 2005 post season besides the sb ben was amazing. who cares if the defenses facing the steelers expected the run ben still completed the passes. i guess joe montana wasnt all that clutch, after all in the sb against the bengals the defense was double teaming jerry rice and left john taylor wide open.


I don't talk about Kobe like he is Jordan. I talk about Kobe like he is the best player in the league the last 8 or 9 years. Ben has NEVER been that. No comparrison. How many rings did Jordan win without Pippen. Kobe won without Shaq. You say Ben would put up good numbers on the rams? I disagree. He leads the league in SACKS on a TOP team. What do you think would happen on a bottom team? It took Ben 6 years to put up good numbers for the Steelers and what was the result of those numbers? Go ahead and blame the defense. That SAME defense got us a ring in 08 and not Ben. Thats right we won in 08 with our qb committing TWENTY THREE turnovers. Funny the Rams wouldnt trade Bradford for Ben. Telling. Ben was amazing in 05 post season BECAUSE of the # 1 running game in the league. They expected run and we passed. What did he do in the SB wihen Holmgren took away that run? He sucked. Had we played a better team than the Seagals we would have lost. Joe Montana NEVER had a defense like Ben OR a running game like Ben and he still won FOUR. He STILL played lights out in the big game. Whereas Ben has ONE TD and THREE ints in the big game. Montana has ELEVEN Td's and ZERO Ints in the Big game. Oh by the way he also has THREE SB MVPs. Ben has ZERO. Montana looked great against all time defenses like the Bears D, The Giants (LT) and a great team like the Skins. Montana was rich, handsome and a woman magnet and NEVER had one Sexual Allegation. Kobe and Montana DESTROY the competition. Ben does JUST ENOUGH to get by. With a dominant defense like the Steelers have Ben should NEVER have to come from behind. It's an indictment against him. The Great Terry Bradshaw utilized his great defense by putting points on the board, not having to come from hehind as a result of putt putting along all game

joe montana had a very good defense and a great running game. roger craig was a hell of a lot better than willie parker and an old bus. kobe isnt the best player. lebron has been better than him for some time. even now chris paul i would say is better than kobe. pippen haha? really? shaq is a hall of famer, pippen was a good player but not great. jordan won rings with very little help and a lot less than what kobe has had. imo ben should have one sb mvp. he threw two perfect passes against the cards in 08 only one of the passes were caught. i always thought it was stupid that holmes got the mvp since he dropped the first td pass. the rams not wanting to trade bradford for ben is because they are the rams. some teams do not make good moves the rams are one of them. bradford for ben are you kidding me? if you wouldnt make that trade if you are the rams GM than you are an idiot. bradford hasnt proven anything except that he has problems getting through an 11 game season

Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05. Please show me WHEN Montanas did. Please inform me WHEN Montanas D LED THE LEAGUE. See the difference? Of course you don't. Lebron is better than Kobe BECAUSE Kobe is in his FOURTEENTH season. Kinda Like comparing Ben to an older Manning. Fact is KOBE is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is NOT. Ben SHOULD have a SB MVP? Why? Because he started to play in the FOURTH qtr? They Take away Ben's last drive and his numbers were TERRIBLE. TONE made that Lsst drive NOT BEN. My question is IF Ben plays like that ALL GAME, we blow them out. It was stupid for Holmes to get the MVP over a drop BUT Ben should get the award DESPITE a Int. What hurt the team more? The drop or the INT? Do you lose possesion over a drop? Come on guy. Ben didnt get traded because the LEAGUE realizes that he ISNT as good as BEN FANS believe him to be. You see the guy is INCONSISTENT as heck (See Cleveland, Jags games, Eagles, Titans, Giants and Skins games the last 2 seasons). Ben plays when he wants to and he is the white version of T.O. Only difference is that Ben doesnt perform as well as T.O (Individually) and T.O doesnt get the cops or a judge involved in his issues.

RuthlessBurgher
04-30-2010, 04:35 PM
Ben is not Kobe. Kobe is an ASSASSIN. The best in the game for years. Ben has never been the best. Ben is FORTUNATE to play for the Steelers. Kobe would be one of the best on the worst team. But Ben on the Rams and he'd SUCK. Kobe is a Hall of Famer Ben is not. Ben has one Pro Bowl Kobe is a All Star game regular. Kobe is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is not. Ben won a SB in 05 with the worst qb performance in history. Yes he played well in games leading up to SB 40 but thats due in part to the #1 rushing game in the NFL. They expected run and Whiz called passes. SB 43 we were lead by the #1 defense. In fact Ben has ONE TD pass and THREE Ints. He is HARDLY the reason we have 2 rings in his tenure. We rode Ben last season (His best year) and we went 9-7.

you talk about kobe as if he were jordan. kobe needs a lot more around him to win championships then jordan did. kobe isnt anything without the team around him just like most players. kobe finally one a championship without shaq but it took a while to build the team around kobe. if ben were on a crap team like the rams he would still put up good numbers. ben maybe isnt a hall of famer yet but kobe didnt go to college and is older than ben. in the 2005 post season besides the sb ben was amazing. who cares if the defenses facing the steelers expected the run ben still completed the passes. i guess joe montana wasnt all that clutch, after all in the sb against the bengals the defense was double teaming jerry rice and left john taylor wide open.


I don't talk about Kobe like he is Jordan. I talk about Kobe like he is the best player in the league the last 8 or 9 years. Ben has NEVER been that. No comparrison. How many rings did Jordan win without Pippen. Kobe won without Shaq. You say Ben would put up good numbers on the rams? I disagree. He leads the league in SACKS on a TOP team. What do you think would happen on a bottom team? It took Ben 6 years to put up good numbers for the Steelers and what was the result of those numbers? Go ahead and blame the defense. That SAME defense got us a ring in 08 and not Ben. Thats right we won in 08 with our qb committing TWENTY THREE turnovers. Funny the Rams wouldnt trade Bradford for Ben. Telling. Ben was amazing in 05 post season BECAUSE of the # 1 running game in the league. They expected run and we passed. What did he do in the SB wihen Holmgren took away that run? He sucked. Had we played a better team than the Seagals we would have lost. Joe Montana NEVER had a defense like Ben OR a running game like Ben and he still won FOUR. He STILL played lights out in the big game. Whereas Ben has ONE TD and THREE ints in the big game. Montana has ELEVEN Td's and ZERO Ints in the Big game. Oh by the way he also has THREE SB MVPs. Ben has ZERO. Montana looked great against all time defenses like the Bears D, The Giants (LT) and a great team like the Skins. Montana was rich, handsome and a woman magnet and NEVER had one Sexual Allegation. Kobe and Montana DESTROY the competition. Ben does JUST ENOUGH to get by. With a dominant defense like the Steelers have Ben should NEVER have to come from behind. It's an indictment against him. The Great Terry Bradshaw utilized his great defense by putting points on the board, not having to come from hehind as a result of putt putting along all game

joe montana had a very good defense and a great running game. roger craig was a hell of a lot better than willie parker and an old bus. kobe isnt the best player. lebron has been better than him for some time. even now chris paul i would say is better than kobe. pippen haha? really? shaq is a hall of famer, pippen was a good player but not great. jordan won rings with very little help and a lot less than what kobe has had. imo ben should have one sb mvp. he threw two perfect passes against the cards in 08 only one of the passes were caught. i always thought it was stupid that holmes got the mvp since he dropped the first td pass. the rams not wanting to trade bradford for ben is because they are the rams. some teams do not make good moves the rams are one of them. bradford for ben are you kidding me? if you wouldnt make that trade if you are the rams GM than you are an idiot. bradford hasnt proven anything except that he has problems getting through an 11 game season

Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05. Please show me WHEN Montanas did. Please inform me WHEN Montanas D LED THE LEAGUE. See the difference? Of course you don't. Lebron is better than Kobe BECAUSE Kobe is in his FOURTEENTH season. Kinda Like comparing Ben to an older Manning. Fact is KOBE is the PRIMARY reason the Lakers are good. Ben is NOT. Ben SHOULD have a SB MVP? Why? Because he started to play in the FOURTH qtr? They Take away Ben's last drive and his numbers were TERRIBLE. TONE made that Lsst drive NOT BEN. My question is IF Ben plays like that ALL GAME, we blow them out. It was stupid for Holmes to get the MVP over a drop BUT Ben should get the award DESPITE a Int. What hurt the team more? The drop or the INT? Do you lose possesion over a drop? Come on guy. Ben didnt get traded because the LEAGUE realizes that he ISNT as good as BEN FANS believe him to be. You see the guy is INCONSISTENT as heck (See Cleveland, Jags games, Eagles, Titans, Giants and Skins games the last 2 seasons). Ben plays when he wants to and he is the white version of T.O. Only difference is that Ben doesnt perform as well as T.O (Individually) and T.O doesnt get the cops or a judge involved in his issues.

Sorry pal...the facts about rushing offense and total defense don't support you.

Ben's Steelers didn't league in rushing in 2005. They were 5th in the league.

While Montana's Niners never lead the league in rushing in any of his Super Bowl years, they did finish 2nd in the league in rushing in 1988 and 3rd in the league in rushing in 1984.




Here are the facts that you didn't bother to look up before spouting off:


Montana's 49ers won Super Bowls following the 1981, 1984, 1988, and 1989 seasons.

Roethlisberger's Steelers won Super Bowls following the 2005 and 2008 seasons.


In 1981, San Francisco was 2nd in total defense and 19th in rushing offense.

In 1984, San Francisco was 10th in total defense and 3rd in rushing offense.

In 1988, San Francisco was 3rd in total defense and 2nd in rushing offense.

In 1989, San Francisco was 4th in total defense and 10th in rushing offense.

In 2005, Pittsburgh was 4th in total defense and 5th in rushing offense.

In 2008, Pittsburgh was 1st in total defense and 23rd in rushing offense.

HeHateMe
04-30-2010, 06:54 PM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

RuthlessBurgher
05-03-2010, 04:06 PM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.

Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).

In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.

The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.

HeHateMe
05-03-2010, 04:43 PM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.

Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).

In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.

The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.
His running game led the league in 04. My bad. He was 4th in 05. Whiz says it AIDED him. Who would know? Him or you or I? Joe Montanas teams BLEW out their opponents. He was very efficient. In 05 and especially 08 we WON ALOT OF CLOSE GAMES. Joe Montana was the PRIMARY reason the 9ers were great. THE PRIMARY. Ben is NOT. Big difference. Its funny that the WEST COAST OFFENSE is popular amongst the league and the DEFENSE they ran is not. Do you know why? It is because the OFFENSE is what made that team LEGENDARY. The DEFENSE is what has made the STEELERS LEGENDARY. Past and PRESENT. Our defense is the BIGGEST opstacle of ANY opponent. NOT BEN. Montana was the biggest opstacle for ANY defense. You will find NO purist who puts Ben on ANY even ground with Montana, NOT ONE. The only person that would say that is a BIASED Steeler fan. Joe is a Hall of Famer (BY his 7th season- THEN HE WENT ON TO WIN TWO MORE) BEN IS NOT. TELLING

SteelAbility
05-03-2010, 05:04 PM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.

Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).

In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.

The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.
His running game led the league in 04. My bad. He was 4th in 05. Whiz says it AIDED him. Who would know? Him or you or I? Joe Montanas teams BLEW out their opponents. He was very efficient. In 05 and especially 08 we WON ALOT OF CLOSE GAMES. Joe Montana was the PRIMARY reason the 9ers were great. THE PRIMARY. Ben is NOT. Big difference. Its funny that the WEST COAST OFFENSE is popular amongst the league and the DEFENSE they ran is not. Do you know why? It is because the OFFENSE is what made that team LEGENDARY. The DEFENSE is what has made the STEELERS LEGENDARY. Past and PRESENT. Our defense is the BIGGEST opstacle of ANY opponent. NOT BEN. Montana was the biggest opstacle for ANY defense. You will find NO purist who puts Ben on ANY even ground with Montana, NOT ONE. The only person that would say that is a BIASED Steeler fan. Joe is a Hall of Famer (BY his 7th season- THEN HE WENT ON TO WIN TWO MORE) BEN IS NOT. TELLING

The most telling stat of efficiency is YPA ...

Montana 7.5 YPA (career)
Ben 8.0 YPA (career)

Plus, Ben never had a receiver anywhere near the quality of Jerry Rice or an OC with anywhere near the offensive mind of Bill Walsh. You would do well to give the WHOLE picture. But again you are strong-arming by conveniently leaving out key facts.

Oh, yeah, if I remember right, the 9ers got blown out by the Giants in one of the NFC, divisional playoffs. What was the score there ... 40-something to 0? But I guess that doesn't count on Montana's resume.

HeHateMe
05-03-2010, 05:34 PM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.

Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).

In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.

The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.
His running game led the league in 04. My bad. He was 4th in 05. Whiz says it AIDED him. Who would know? Him or you or I? Joe Montanas teams BLEW out their opponents. He was very efficient. In 05 and especially 08 we WON ALOT OF CLOSE GAMES. Joe Montana was the PRIMARY reason the 9ers were great. THE PRIMARY. Ben is NOT. Big difference. Its funny that the WEST COAST OFFENSE is popular amongst the league and the DEFENSE they ran is not. Do you know why? It is because the OFFENSE is what made that team LEGENDARY. The DEFENSE is what has made the STEELERS LEGENDARY. Past and PRESENT. Our defense is the BIGGEST opstacle of ANY opponent. NOT BEN. Montana was the biggest opstacle for ANY defense. You will find NO purist who puts Ben on ANY even ground with Montana, NOT ONE. The only person that would say that is a BIASED Steeler fan. Joe is a Hall of Famer (BY his 7th season- THEN HE WENT ON TO WIN TWO MORE) BEN IS NOT. TELLING

The most telling stat of efficiency is YPA ...

Montana 7.5 YPA (career)
Ben 8.0 YPA (career)

Plus, Ben never had a receiver anywhere near the quality of Jerry Rice or an OC with anywhere near the offensive mind of Bill Walsh. You would do well to give the WHOLE picture. But again you are strong-arming by conveniently leaving out key facts.

Oh, yeah, if I remember right, the 9ers got blown out by the Giants in one of the NFC, divisional playoffs. What was the score there ... 40-something to 0? But I guess that doesn't count on Montana's resume.
So you take 6 years vs 14 or so and claim Ben the statistical champ LOL WOW
Walsh would not start Ben. He is too dumb. Walsh is not patient. Ben cant run the west coast offense. It is predicated on SHORT PASSES (hence the YPA). You forget Montana had success under Holmgren, Sam Wyche, it didnt matter lol. He even had success at KC. Must have been Rice and the OC. Oh wait they werent there. Montana is a HALL OF FAMER and discussed as the BEST ever. I personally prefer Marino but thats a different convo. The Giants were a great team and had the best LB in the history of the game on the team. Wonder how Ben would fair vs LT. LOL
The mere fact that you BEN fans are trying to pit Ben vs the great Montana tells me ALL I NEED TO KNOW
LOL

grotonsteel
05-04-2010, 01:34 AM
Ok guys its time to focus here.....everyone do me a favor and look at my girls butt to the left and then take a deep breath and lets focus here...........FOCUS FOCUS....

BIG BEN!!!!!

1. This is the same guy who took his OLINE to detroit to build team bonding and that did what for the team???? WON THE SUPERBOWL.
2. Its the same guy who on National Television during the most watched show in the WORLD said the following.....OLINE??? WHOS LAUGHING NOW???? He didnt brag about himself up there holding a trophy.
3. Same guy who fights for a guy you all hate...BA..........
4. Same guy who promised BUS a superbowl.......Same guy who hands BUS all the playoff balls, same guy who hugged and cried a little after superbowl XL.......
5. Same guy who you see talking to HOLMES about his first superbowl and telling him he'll get him the ball early....Who was the guy who caught the game winner again??
6. Same guy you see holding TOMLINS hand during that superbowl......that pic is my ALL TIME FAVORITE STEELER PICTURE...........
7. Same guy who goes up and down on the sideline telling the OLINE good job and that it was ALL THEM that drive!!!!!!!!
8. Same guy who you see talking to Mendenhall about holding onto the ball........
9. Same guy who during training camp the year they won superbowl XL was out 45 minutes before everyone else signing autographs. That year they said he was always out early signing. I got my jersey signed. I'm sure some years he doesnt like last year and other years....Was he overly friendly???? Not really but he signed his bad word off and the less he talked the more that got signed.......
10. Same guy who did make a wish!!!!!!!
11. Same guy who buys police dogs for other cities beside PITT.
12. Same guy who held Hines Hand on the sideline and actually gets into the game and watches the defense.
13. Same guy who told TROY during the AFC Championship game that hes AWESOME. Ever see Payton say that to his defense??? what did Payton say about his OLINE during the loss to the steelers that one year???? OH WE HAD SOME PROTECTION PROBLEMS....I mean lets get real here..........

In fact I love the steelers because they actually get involved....that year Leftwich ran for a TD and Casey Hampton was laughing at him and making fun of his run.......Our team actually gets into the game and each other......You dont see that on other teams like you do with the STEELERS.............

I'm sure there are more but it doesnt matter.........The guy is a team player........all his post game interviews is like listening to the white version of TOMLIN..........Game winning TD Throw in the superbowl he said the play was pump once, pump twice, get open......or something crazy.......he didnt say oh i audibled at the line....i made this decision...I did that..........he thought it was PICKED and so DID I...........he isnt about himself.

YES HES 26.....yes he puts himself in bad situations.............Yes he called this girl a tease in bar #1 and ends up doing something in bar #3 with her..........she wore a DTF badge....I mean come on...........who hasnt done something at the age of 26???? Doesnt mean he's not liked in the locker room or on the team..............COME ON!!!! This is just DUMB talk..............he was out with a teammate.....how is he not liked and out with a teammate???? I bet these guys are probably laughing about this crap and will give him a hard time........MOORE was on the VIKING SHIP wasnt he with the escorts????? Wasnt he????? We all LOVE him..................

Lets focus!!!!!!!! This is one bad drunken night!!!!!

My brother bought us beer when I was 19....he was 22.........He took a friend of mine to the high school parking lot after she had been drinking and now they are married. He contributed to a minor, had sex with her and then married her.................So it happens.................................lets keep it real people.............


LETS GOOO STEELERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Great Post.... :Agree

:Beer :Beer

fezziwig
05-04-2010, 09:35 AM
Joe Cool and Marino are two Italian quarterbacks. Maybe that's Bens problem, he needed some Italian parents to slap him around to learn right from wrong ? :)

RuthlessBurgher
05-04-2010, 10:30 AM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.

Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).

In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.

The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.
His running game led the league in 04. My bad. He was 4th in 05. Whiz says it AIDED him. Who would know? Him or you or I? Joe Montanas teams BLEW out their opponents. He was very efficient. In 05 and especially 08 we WON ALOT OF CLOSE GAMES. Joe Montana was the PRIMARY reason the 9ers were great. THE PRIMARY. Ben is NOT. Big difference. Its funny that the WEST COAST OFFENSE is popular amongst the league and the DEFENSE they ran is not. Do you know why? It is because the OFFENSE is what made that team LEGENDARY. The DEFENSE is what has made the STEELERS LEGENDARY. Past and PRESENT. Our defense is the BIGGEST opstacle of ANY opponent. NOT BEN. Montana was the biggest opstacle for ANY defense. You will find NO purist who puts Ben on ANY even ground with Montana, NOT ONE. The only person that would say that is a BIASED Steeler fan. Joe is a Hall of Famer (BY his 7th season- THEN HE WENT ON TO WIN TWO MORE) BEN IS NOT. TELLING

You are correct that the Niners blew out many of their opponents in those Super Bowl years. And Montana was awfully impressive. I'm not disputing that. Joe was THE MAN. He's a Pittsburgh-area guy...why would I want to put him down? I'm just saying that he also benefitted from a quality run game and defense as well.

In the 1984, 1988, and 1989 playoffs, the San Francisco defense allowed 10, 0, 16, 9, 3, 16, 13, 3, and 10 points. Montana did not have to score 21, 23, 38, 34, 28, 20, 41, 30, and 55 points to win those game (but he did anyway, which is certainly impressive). These teams were getting blown out and throwing the ball like crazy to try to catch up, and yet still could not score more than 16 points in any of these games. That's some good defense right there (Ronnie Lott did as much for the Niner defense in this seasons as Troy Polamalu does for the Steeler defense in Ben's championship seasons).

The only close game in the playoff during those 3 seasons was Super Bowl XXIII against Cincinnati (20-16). When a defense does not allow more than 16 points in the 9 games that constituted 3 runs to the Super Bowl, you could easily say that the defense was a primary reason for those titles.

In Ben's two runs to his titles, his defense allowed 17, 18, 17, 10, 24, 14, and 23 points in those games. The Steelers needed him to score 31, 21, 34, 21, 35, 23, and 27 points to win those games.

Again, this is not to say that Ben is a better QB than Montana (far from it). This is just acknowledging that Joe benefitted as much from his defense and running game as Ben did.

fezziwig
05-04-2010, 12:02 PM
The Niners were a well rounded team. Many fell in love with Craig, Montana and Rice and for that, the defense never got the credit they deserved in my opinion.


I tell you this, it wouldn't break my heart if Joe, Dan and Ben were all up for the same draft season and I had the third overall pick and only Ben was left.

Besides all the horrible Ben stories, Ben is one heck of a QB and the sad thing is and all on him, he will never be seen in the same light as one of the ultimate QB's because oif his off field antics.

HeHateMe
05-04-2010, 12:23 PM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.

Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).

In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.

The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.
His running game led the league in 04. My bad. He was 4th in 05. Whiz says it AIDED him. Who would know? Him or you or I? Joe Montanas teams BLEW out their opponents. He was very efficient. In 05 and especially 08 we WON ALOT OF CLOSE GAMES. Joe Montana was the PRIMARY reason the 9ers were great. THE PRIMARY. Ben is NOT. Big difference. Its funny that the WEST COAST OFFENSE is popular amongst the league and the DEFENSE they ran is not. Do you know why? It is because the OFFENSE is what made that team LEGENDARY. The DEFENSE is what has made the STEELERS LEGENDARY. Past and PRESENT. Our defense is the BIGGEST opstacle of ANY opponent. NOT BEN. Montana was the biggest opstacle for ANY defense. You will find NO purist who puts Ben on ANY even ground with Montana, NOT ONE. The only person that would say that is a BIASED Steeler fan. Joe is a Hall of Famer (BY his 7th season- THEN HE WENT ON TO WIN TWO MORE) BEN IS NOT. TELLING

You are correct that the Niners blew out many of their opponents in those Super Bowl years. And Montana was awfully impressive. I'm not disputing that. Joe was THE MAN. He's a Pittsburgh-area guy...why would I want to put him down? I'm just saying that he also benefitted from a quality run game and defense as well.

In the 1984, 1988, and 1989 playoffs, the San Francisco defense allowed 10, 0, 16, 9, 3, 16, 13, 3, and 10 points. Montana did not have to score 21, 23, 38, 34, 28, 20, 41, 30, and 55 points to win those game (but he did anyway, which is certainly impressive). These teams were getting blown out and throwing the ball like crazy to try to catch up, and yet still could not score more than 16 points in any of these games. That's some good defense right there (Ronnie Lott did as much for the Niner defense in this seasons as Troy Polamalu does for the Steeler defense in Ben's championship seasons).

The only close game in the playoff during those 3 seasons was Super Bowl XXIII against Cincinnati (20-16). When a defense does not allow more than 16 points in the 9 games that constituted 3 runs to the Super Bowl, you could easily say that the defense was a primary reason for those titles.

In Ben's two runs to his titles, his defense allowed 17, 18, 17, 10, 24, 14, and 23 points in those games. The Steelers needed him to score 31, 21, 34, 21, 35, 23, and 27 points to win those games.

Again, this is not to say that Ben is a better QB than Montana (far from it). This is just acknowledging that Joe benefitted as much from his defense and running game as Ben did.
You can't compare the two. Noway Montana had as effective of a running game or defense. Sorry I wont accept that. How did a down defensive year affect Ben last season? We went 9-7. Ben had his BETST season as a pro but it was not enough now was it? He NEEDS a good defense. Montana does not. In your breakdown of how many points the Steelers D gave up you FORGOT to factor in PICK SIX'S. Ben likes to throw thoes you know and that adds to the points that the defense gives up even though they didnt give them up. I will cite Rashean Mathis here. Also, you didn't factor in defensive Touchdowns either. Tyrone Carter, Troy Polamalu, James Harrison etc have all scored via the defense. Worth noting.

frankthetank1
05-04-2010, 02:12 PM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.

Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).

In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.

The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.
His running game led the league in 04. My bad. He was 4th in 05. Whiz says it AIDED him. Who would know? Him or you or I? Joe Montanas teams BLEW out their opponents. He was very efficient. In 05 and especially 08 we WON ALOT OF CLOSE GAMES. Joe Montana was the PRIMARY reason the 9ers were great. THE PRIMARY. Ben is NOT. Big difference. Its funny that the WEST COAST OFFENSE is popular amongst the league and the DEFENSE they ran is not. Do you know why? It is because the OFFENSE is what made that team LEGENDARY. The DEFENSE is what has made the STEELERS LEGENDARY. Past and PRESENT. Our defense is the BIGGEST opstacle of ANY opponent. NOT BEN. Montana was the biggest opstacle for ANY defense. You will find NO purist who puts Ben on ANY even ground with Montana, NOT ONE. The only person that would say that is a BIASED Steeler fan. Joe is a Hall of Famer (BY his 7th season- THEN HE WENT ON TO WIN TWO MORE) BEN IS NOT. TELLING

You are correct that the Niners blew out many of their opponents in those Super Bowl years. And Montana was awfully impressive. I'm not disputing that. Joe was THE MAN. He's a Pittsburgh-area guy...why would I want to put him down? I'm just saying that he also benefitted from a quality run game and defense as well.

In the 1984, 1988, and 1989 playoffs, the San Francisco defense allowed 10, 0, 16, 9, 3, 16, 13, 3, and 10 points. Montana did not have to score 21, 23, 38, 34, 28, 20, 41, 30, and 55 points to win those game (but he did anyway, which is certainly impressive). These teams were getting blown out and throwing the ball like crazy to try to catch up, and yet still could not score more than 16 points in any of these games. That's some good defense right there (Ronnie Lott did as much for the Niner defense in this seasons as Troy Polamalu does for the Steeler defense in Ben's championship seasons).

The only close game in the playoff during those 3 seasons was Super Bowl XXIII against Cincinnati (20-16). When a defense does not allow more than 16 points in the 9 games that constituted 3 runs to the Super Bowl, you could easily say that the defense was a primary reason for those titles.

In Ben's two runs to his titles, his defense allowed 17, 18, 17, 10, 24, 14, and 23 points in those games. The Steelers needed him to score 31, 21, 34, 21, 35, 23, and 27 points to win those games.

Again, this is not to say that Ben is a better QB than Montana (far from it). This is just acknowledging that Joe benefitted as much from his defense and running game as Ben did.
You can't compare the two. Noway Montana had as effective of a running game or defense. Sorry I wont accept that. How did a down defensive year affect Ben last season? We went 9-7. Ben had his BETST season as a pro but it was not enough now was it? He NEEDS a good defense. Montana does not. In your breakdown of how many points the Steelers D gave up you FORGOT to factor in PICK SIX'S. Ben likes to throw thoes you know and that adds to the points that the defense gives up even though they didnt give them up. I will cite Rashean Mathis here. Also, you didn't factor in defensive Touchdowns either. Tyrone Carter, Troy Polamalu, James Harrison etc have all scored via the defense. Worth noting.

montana's defense was one of the most underrated defense's imo. they were very good and ronnie lott in his time was just as good as troy. roger craig was also a very good RB and one of the best pass catching backs of all time. not all pick six's are on the qb. sometimes but not all the time

papillon
05-04-2010, 03:20 PM
Thanks for establishing that my stats were CORRECT. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas D led the league. You couldnt. Telling. I asked you to show me WHEN Montanas offense led the league in rushing. YOU COULDNT. TELLING. You CONFIRMED what I said in that the Steelers led the league in Defense in 08 (The year Ben had TWENTY THREE TURNOVERS). We also, LED the league in Ben's rookie season (04-05) and as you pointed out were top FIVE the SB season. AGAIN, Montana was the PRIMARY reason that the 9ers were SB champs. BEN WAS NOT. For you to even ATTEMPT to compare ben with a GIANT like MONTANA is TELLING.

PROOF that the Steelers had one of the BEST running games in the league.


When Roethlisberger took over, running the ball "took a little bit of pressure off that position early," Whisenhunt said.
The return to what many might call "Steelers football" also paved the way for the 2005 run to the Super Bowl.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/10 ... z0mctghWsD (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10084/1045463-66.stm#ixzz0mctghWsD)

You claimed "Ben's running game LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 05" which is false.

Ben certainly benefitted from excellent defense during his Super Bowl seasons (team ranked 1st and 4th in total defense in those 2 SB seasons) but so did Joe (team ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th in total defense in those 4 SB seasons). We were top 4 in total defense both times we won the Super Bowl with Ben, and the Niners were top 4 in total defense 3 out of the 4 times the Niners won the Super Bowl with him (and were still a top 10 defense the other season).

In terms of a running game, Ben had a top 5 rushing attack in his one Super Bowl season, and a below average rushing attack (23rd in the league) the other season. Joe had a top 3 rushing attack (2nd and 3rd in the league) in two of his 4 Super Bowl seasons, had a top 10 rushing attack in one season, and had a below average rushing attack (19th in the league) the other season.

The point I'm trying to make is that no quarterback (even the legendary Montana) wins a Super Bowl by himself. Joe Cool got just as much help from him rushing attack and defense as Ben did. The media portrays Montana as God's gift to quarterbacking and portrays Roethlisberger as just some loaf of a game manager whose role is to simply not screw things up when he is riding the coattails of a superior team. Neither is correct. Joe's Niners needed a run game and defense to be successful just like Ben, and Ben was able to put the team on his shoulders when the chips were down just like Joe. I respect the contributions of both players to their teams' victories.
His running game led the league in 04. My bad. He was 4th in 05. Whiz says it AIDED him. Who would know? Him or you or I? Joe Montanas teams BLEW out their opponents. He was very efficient. In 05 and especially 08 we WON ALOT OF CLOSE GAMES. Joe Montana was the PRIMARY reason the 9ers were great. THE PRIMARY. Ben is NOT. Big difference. Its funny that the WEST COAST OFFENSE is popular amongst the league and the DEFENSE they ran is not. Do you know why? It is because the OFFENSE is what made that team LEGENDARY. The DEFENSE is what has made the STEELERS LEGENDARY. Past and PRESENT. Our defense is the BIGGEST opstacle of ANY opponent. NOT BEN. Montana was the biggest opstacle for ANY defense. You will find NO purist who puts Ben on ANY even ground with Montana, NOT ONE. The only person that would say that is a BIASED Steeler fan. Joe is a Hall of Famer (BY his 7th season- THEN HE WENT ON TO WIN TWO MORE) BEN IS NOT. TELLING

You are correct that the Niners blew out many of their opponents in those Super Bowl years. And Montana was awfully impressive. I'm not disputing that. Joe was THE MAN. He's a Pittsburgh-area guy...why would I want to put him down? I'm just saying that he also benefitted from a quality run game and defense as well.

In the 1984, 1988, and 1989 playoffs, the San Francisco defense allowed 10, 0, 16, 9, 3, 16, 13, 3, and 10 points. Montana did not have to score 21, 23, 38, 34, 28, 20, 41, 30, and 55 points to win those game (but he did anyway, which is certainly impressive). These teams were getting blown out and throwing the ball like crazy to try to catch up, and yet still could not score more than 16 points in any of these games. That's some good defense right there (Ronnie Lott did as much for the Niner defense in this seasons as Troy Polamalu does for the Steeler defense in Ben's championship seasons).

The only close game in the playoff during those 3 seasons was Super Bowl XXIII against Cincinnati (20-16). When a defense does not allow more than 16 points in the 9 games that constituted 3 runs to the Super Bowl, you could easily say that the defense was a primary reason for those titles.

In Ben's two runs to his titles, his defense allowed 17, 18, 17, 10, 24, 14, and 23 points in those games. The Steelers needed him to score 31, 21, 34, 21, 35, 23, and 27 points to win those games.

Again, this is not to say that Ben is a better QB than Montana (far from it). This is just acknowledging that Joe benefitted as much from his defense and running game as Ben did.
You can't compare the two. Noway Montana had as effective of a running game or defense. Sorry I wont accept that. How did a down defensive year affect Ben last season? We went 9-7. Ben had his BETST season as a pro but it was not enough now was it? He NEEDS a good defense. Montana does not. In your breakdown of how many points the Steelers D gave up you FORGOT to factor in PICK SIX'S. Ben likes to throw thoes you know and that adds to the points that the defense gives up even though they didnt give them up. I will cite Rashean Mathis here. Also, you didn't factor in defensive Touchdowns either. Tyrone Carter, Troy Polamalu, James Harrison etc have all scored via the defense. Worth noting.

In 1984 the 49ers had the #1 ranked defense, #2 ranked offense including the #3 ranked rushing attack. The defense was better than the offense, statistically speaking and the rushing attack was top 3; I think Montana had plenty of help and actually had more help than Ben has ever had since he's been the QB (except maybe for Ben's rookie season).

You're argument that Montana carried the team without benefit of a running game and defense doesn't hold up, #1 defense and #3 rushing attack (154 yards per game, d@mned impressive).

Pappy

HeHateMe
05-05-2010, 08:59 AM
I never said he didnt benefit from "any" running game. I remember Wendell Tyler and Craig/Rathman etc. My premise is that the 9ers bread and meat was not the running game. The Steelers' was and is. In 1984 the 9ers were not the potent offensive team that they became later, so of course they had more balance. Walsh, Wyche, Reid were and are PASS 1ST guys. Do you understand the West Coast offense? It is predicated on short passes and NOT the running game. Of course there will ALWAYS be an exception to every rule but the BODY OF WORK bears the truth. Montanas career was aided by a strong passing attack. Ben Roethlisberger has only had ONE such season in that regard. Prior to 09 he ran a run heavy offense. Montana DID NOT. The West Coast offense is an extension of what? AIR CORYELL whom in turn got his philosophy from Sid Gilman. Do the research and you will find that they all ran PASS HEAVY offenses. A little perspective.