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View Full Version : Where does this leave Urbik, '10



Shoe
04-24-2010, 02:34 PM
With Pouncey supposed to play G (at least initially), what is the expectation for Urbik. I would think Urbik should be challenging for that job too. Of course (ideally), we want both to emerge, and emerge quicker than later. But everyone seems to be anointing Pouncey as Essex' main competition at that position (and presumably Center if need be), but what about Urbik?

Cuz if he can emerge in his 2nd year, with Pouncey... now we got the foundation of the kind of o-line we want (smart, no-nonsense, big, dependable, not flashy...)

DrCalculus
04-24-2010, 02:39 PM
They also have Foster and Stapleton in the mix.

T: Starks, Colon, Hills, J.Scott, C.Scott, Essex
G: Kemoatu, Pouncey, Urbik, Foster, Stapleton
C: Hartwig, Legursky

That's 13 lineman. Someone's getting cut or traded. I'd hope that Urbik can emerge as a solid backup and that they could trade someone (Essex?) to an OL needy team like Buffalo. But Essex is "position flexible" and we know how much Tomlin values that.

SteelerNation1
04-24-2010, 02:41 PM
They also have Foster and Stapleton in the mix.

T: Starks, Colon, Hills, J.Scott, C.Scott, Essex
G: Kemoatu, Pouncey, Urbik, Foster, Stapleton
C: Hartwig, Legursky

That's 13 lineman. Someone's getting cut or traded. I'd hope that Urbik can emerge as a solid backup and that they could trade someone (Essex?) to an OL needy team like Buffalo. But Essex is "position flexible" and we know how much Tomlin values that.
stapleton wasn't retained after 2009.

Shoe
04-24-2010, 02:44 PM
Good point Calculus. Should make for a very good competitive situation, which is a good thing. Funny, I want the best guys on the field of course. However, I do hope for something of an overhaul of our current group. I just don't like the mix of guys on our starting group, for varying reasons. That's why I'm so hopeful, that someone like Urbik (a '09 2nd rounder!) can emerge and help change that mix. And Pouncey too, of course.

SS Laser
04-24-2010, 03:16 PM
Good point Calculus. Should make for a very good competitive situation, which is a good thing. Funny, I want the best guys on the field of course. However, I do hope for something of an overhaul of our current group. I just don't like the mix of guys on our starting group, for varying reasons. That's why I'm so hopeful, that someone like Urbik (a '09 2nd rounder!) can emerge and help change that mix. And Pouncey too, of course.

This gets me every time. Urbik my be the steelers "2nd" pick in the 09 draft but he was a third round pick #79.

hawaiiansteel
04-24-2010, 03:22 PM
T: Starks, Colon, Hills, J.Scott
G: Kemoatu, Pouncey, Essex, Foster, Urbik, C. Scott
C: Hartwig, Legursky



Tony Hills is going to have a hard time making the team this year as Essex can provide depth at OT.

Chris Scott projects as a guard in the NFL.

as for Urbik, the Steelers have him practicing at center in the OTAs. i think he will be competing against Legursky for a roster spot.

SteelerOfDeVille
04-24-2010, 05:06 PM
here's to hoping Pouncy goes right to C and Urbik is better than the others and starts at G.... Kemo and Essex fight over the other G spot

hawaiiansteel
04-24-2010, 05:13 PM
here's to hoping Pouncy goes right to C and Urbik is better than the others and starts at G.... Kemo and Essex fight over the other G spot



you can always hope but Pouncey is going straight to RG until he learns how to make the line calls.

SteelerOfDeVille
04-24-2010, 05:15 PM
here's to hoping Pouncy goes right to C and Urbik is better than the others and starts at G.... Kemo and Essex fight over the other G spot



you can always hope but Pouncey is going straight to RG until he learns how to make the line calls.
just depends... at one point, Faneca helped one of our C's make line calls...

hawaiiansteel
04-24-2010, 05:28 PM
here's to hoping Pouncy goes right to C and Urbik is better than the others and starts at G.... Kemo and Essex fight over the other G spot



you can always hope but Pouncey is going straight to RG until he learns how to make the line calls.
just depends... at one point, Faneca helped one of our C's make line calls...



let's hope Kemo doesn't help Pouncey make the line calls... :lol:

BigRob
04-24-2010, 05:55 PM
Urbik barely made the team last year. Legursky is liked by the organization and will be on the roster.

Urbik could be a Bruce Davis and cut this year unless he really improved over this last year.

NJ-STEELER
04-24-2010, 05:59 PM
hpefully pouncey comes in and just wows everyone at center and hartwig is let go.


allows ubrick another year

hawaiiansteel
04-24-2010, 06:10 PM
Urbik barely made the team last year. Legursky is liked by the organization and will be on the roster.

Urbik could be a Bruce Davis and cut this year unless he really improved over this last year.




:Agree

if Urbik hadn't been a 3rd round draft choice he would have been cut last year.

Oviedo
04-24-2010, 06:20 PM
Urbik will slide into the RG slot when Pouncey takes over at Center.

Captain Lemming
04-24-2010, 09:23 PM
Urbik will slide into the RG slot when Pouncey takes over at Center.

People excuse Urbik for being young but Foster who was fellow rook FREE AGENT got time over Urbik. I see nothing but wishful thinking, no real basis for confidence in him

papillon
04-24-2010, 09:25 PM
Well, if Urbik can manage to get himself traded, the Steelers will bring him back in two years.

Pappy

DukieBoy
04-24-2010, 09:29 PM
Urbik barely made the team last year. Legursky is liked by the organization and will be on the roster.
Urbik could be a Bruce Davis and cut this year unless he really improved over this last year.


Make the Big Legurski a nose tackle, he's 6-1 315 low to the ground like a great big toad and nobody will get underneath him to move him :lol: :lol: :lol:

Shawn
04-24-2010, 09:33 PM
Unless Urbik man's up he will be gone.

Captain Lemming
04-24-2010, 09:59 PM
Well, if Urbik can manage to get himself traded, the Steelers will bring him back in two years.
Pappy

Nope. Aint gonna happen.
QBs, receivers, corners perhaps.

But we dont bring back GUARDS. :lol:

papillon
04-24-2010, 10:14 PM
Well, if Urbik can manage to get himself traded, the Steelers will bring him back in two years.
Pappy

Nope. Aint gonna happen.
QBs, receivers, corners perhaps.

But we dont bring back GUARDS. :lol:

The best ex-Steeler is still out there and he's a guard, don't rule it out yet. Give the FO a chance to figure out how to get it done and it will happen. :P

Pappy

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-25-2010, 10:20 AM
Urbik will slide into the RG slot when Pouncey takes over at Center.

People excuse Urbik for being young but Foster who was fellow rook FREE AGENT got time over Urbik. I see nothing but wishful thinking, no real basis for confidence in him

Foster got to dress ahead of him because he plays both guard and tackle. When an injury happened he got the call.

That may not project to him being the starting guard ahead of Urbik this year.

aggiebones
04-25-2010, 01:34 PM
T: Starks, Colon, Hills, J.Scott, C.Scott, Essex
G: Kemoatu, Pouncey, Urbik, Foster, Stapleton
C: Hartwig, Legursky


Team =
T: Starks, Colon, Essex
G: Kemoatu, Pouncey, Urbik, Foster, Stapleton
C: Hartwig + (Stapleton and Pouncey can play here)

Cut = Hills (useless), Legursky and 1 of the Scotts or maybe Foster.
Like Legursky all they want, they have too many centers that can also play G. And with Pouncey the heir apparent, Legursky is not valuable. I think they keep Stapleton to backup both C/G next year after Hartwig departs. Hartwig could even be let go if Pouncey takes the job earlier than expected.

pfelix73
04-25-2010, 02:24 PM
Stapleton isn't on the team. He was released a few months ago. I think Legursky will make the team. He's a favorite in the weight room and is the strongest lineman on the team. I think with his experience now, he makes it before Urbik would.
:tt1

Stewie
04-25-2010, 02:38 PM
Here's a prediction for you: Neither Urbik nor Pouncey will start this year. Urbik got beaten out by a FA last year, and Pouncey needs to add strength to his 20 year old body.

NorthCoast
04-25-2010, 03:08 PM
I don't think anyone really knows how the new line will shake out.

Don't forget Kugs has now had at least a full month to view tape on the existing line. I got to believe his opinions on the current line were in the mix on draft day. Remember he talked about wanting players "that can finish the play", which I think was lacking with our OL. Our OL seemed to merely hold their own, rather than knocking their guy to the next level. Kemo pulling was one of the bright spots in an otherwise lackluster OL.

I don't favor any particular players, just want to guys to open holes for a power running game (which incidently will only help our Defense by keeping the other team off the field).

fezziwig
04-25-2010, 03:17 PM
Being a guard/tackle or guard/center is nice in a pinch or if your really good at one position and you can be the go to guy if injuries do occur. Like I said, that's al nice and well but, i'd rather have a master skillsman than a jack of all trades. I want either a guard, center or tackle that is really good at their job/position rather than, " well, he's just and okay guard but, if the center ever gets hurt he can step in. " If being just an okay guy at your main position then how much less is a guy as the alternate position.

Our coaches have the mentality of our O-line as if it bargain basement shopping time. Finally they drafted someone that is supposed to be good without a lot of developiing needed.

Steel Life
04-25-2010, 03:24 PM
Urbik barely made the team last year. Legursky is liked by the organization and will be on the roster.
Urbik could be a Bruce Davis and cut this year unless he really improved over this last year.


Make the Big Legurski a nose tackle, he's 6-1 315 low to the ground like a great big toad and nobody will get underneath him to move him :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's not a bad idea Dukie...

Stewie
04-25-2010, 03:33 PM
It's nice to have a dominant player at each position, but position flexibility is important because it affects the number of people you have to dress on game day.

Captain Lemming
04-25-2010, 10:27 PM
[quote=Oviedo]Urbik will slide into the RG slot when Pouncey takes over at Center.

People excuse Urbik for being young but Foster who was fellow rook FREE AGENT got time over Urbik. I see nothing but wishful thinking, no real basis for confidence in him

Foster got to dress ahead of him because he plays both guard and tackle. When an injury happened he got the call.

That may not project to him being the starting guard ahead of Urbik this year.[/quote:tr6icym9]

This has nothing to do with "dressing".
Foster got two starts, over Urbik, when Kemo got hurt.

Kemo gets hurt Ramon starts and Urbik still does not step foot onto the field. Did he not dress EVEN WITH A GUARD WHO IS INACTIVE, OPENING A SPOT?

Mel Blount's G
04-25-2010, 10:32 PM
here's to hoping Pouncy goes right to C and Urbik is better than the others and starts at G.... Kemo and Essex fight over the other G spot
Amen and Hallelujah to that!

Slapstick
04-26-2010, 03:51 PM
Kemoeatu was inactive for 15 games his rookie season...he dressed for one game, but did not play...

Kemo played in three games in his second season...he started a game, played a significant amount the next game and started the third game...after than, he went back to being inactive for the rest of the year...

He played in 15 games his third year and became a starter after that...

Urbik could very well be on a similar learning curve...I wouldn't count him out just yet, because lack of playing time in your first few years doesn't necessarily mean diddly poo...

DukieBoy
04-26-2010, 06:16 PM
Kemoeatu was inactive for 15 games his rookie season...he dressed for one game, but did not play...

Kemo played in three games in his second season...he started a game, played a significant amount the next game and started the third game...after than, he went back to being inactive for the rest of the year...

He played in 15 games his third year and became a starter after that...

Urbik could very well be on a similar learning curve...I wouldn't count him out just yet, because lack of playing time in your first few years doesn't necessarily mean diddly poo...

Excellent post :Clap :Clap :Clap

NW Steeler
04-26-2010, 06:51 PM
Wasn't Kemo's issue due to him being a few bricks shy of a load? Urbik has been getting his ass handed to him physically, from what is being reported. But I hope you are right.

Captain Lemming
04-27-2010, 02:45 AM
Kemoeatu was inactive for 15 games his rookie season...he dressed for one game, but did not play...

Kemo played in three games in his second season...he started a game, played a significant amount the next game and started the third game...after than, he went back to being inactive for the rest of the year...

He played in 15 games his third year and became a starter after that...

Urbik could very well be on a similar learning curve...I wouldn't count him out just yet, because lack of playing time in your first few years doesn't necessarily mean diddly poo...

You miss my point entirely.
I am not critical because he didnt play. It happens all the time, especially on the Steelers.

You want to compare him to Kemo? Kemo had two entrenched starters including the then best guard in the NFL ahead of him who both did not miss a game!!!!!
That was 2005, our line was dominant. Ben had a career low for sacks and our run game was elite.

This year we are so weak that one injury and we had a free agent fellow rookie starting!!!! That is the issue.

It is not that he cant get onto the field. If it were a vet I could understand. It is that Urbik cant beat out a player with the same inexperience as him. Someone who has to climb this depths of obscurity to leapfrog the second player we drafted.

Either Foster is WAY better than we give him credit for or Urbik aint that good. It might be both. In either case Urbik aint the future.




Urbik doesnt dress when we have one of the weakess olines in the league

Slapstick
04-27-2010, 06:01 AM
If you say so... :roll:

Oviedo
04-27-2010, 06:59 AM
Kemoeatu was inactive for 15 games his rookie season...he dressed for one game, but did not play...

Kemo played in three games in his second season...he started a game, played a significant amount the next game and started the third game...after than, he went back to being inactive for the rest of the year...

He played in 15 games his third year and became a starter after that...

Urbik could very well be on a similar learning curve...I wouldn't count him out just yet, because lack of playing time in your first few years doesn't necessarily mean diddly poo...

Are you daring to question message board talent evaluators and the hours of information and the hours they have spent observing practices? Crazy person!!!! Don't introduce facts into emotional based discussions.

Good post :Cheers

Discipline of Steel
04-27-2010, 07:23 AM
Kemoeatu was inactive for 15 games his rookie season...he dressed for one game, but did not play...

Kemo played in three games in his second season...he started a game, played a significant amount the next game and started the third game...after than, he went back to being inactive for the rest of the year...

He played in 15 games his third year and became a starter after that...

Urbik could very well be on a similar learning curve...I wouldn't count him out just yet, because lack of playing time in your first few years doesn't necessarily mean diddly poo...

Are you daring to question message board talent evaluators and the hours of information and the hours they have spent observing practices? Crazy person!!!! Don't introduce facts into emotional based discussions.

Good post :Cheers

:Agree

Looks like Urbik is in good company with other recent first year busts!!

fezziwig
04-27-2010, 07:33 AM
I still rmember Warren Sapps saying Kemo is the worse guard he ever seen or something to that affect.

steelblood
04-27-2010, 07:52 AM
T: Starks, Colon, Hills, J.Scott
G: Kemoatu, Pouncey, Essex, Foster, Urbik, C. Scott
C: Hartwig, Legursky



Tony Hills is going to have a hard time making the team this year as Essex can provide depth at OT.

Chris Scott projects as a guard in the NFL.

as for Urbik, the Steelers have him practicing at center in the OTAs. i think he will be competing against Legursky for a roster spot.

Ciron Black could compete for a spot if he gets himself in shape. He should be able to play RT and both guards. He is a good run blocker.

Lebsteel
04-27-2010, 08:34 AM
T: Starks, Colon, Hills, J.Scott
G: Kemoatu, Pouncey, Essex, Foster, Urbik, C. Scott
C: Hartwig, Legursky



Tony Hills is going to have a hard time making the team this year as Essex can provide depth at OT.

Chris Scott projects as a guard in the NFL.

as for Urbik, the Steelers have him practicing at center in the OTAs. i think he will be competing against Legursky for a roster spot.

Ciron Black could compete for a spot if he gets himself in shape. He should be able to play RT and both guards. He is a good run blocker.
We would have to sign Black first. Did we do that overnight? There have been so many rumors about who signed and then they really haven't signed, I'm not sure. The last time I went to steelers.com, he was not there...no, still not. Lindsey Witten did sign late yesterday.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-27-2010, 08:54 AM
T: Starks, Colon, Hills, J.Scott
G: Kemoatu, Pouncey, Essex, Foster, Urbik, C. Scott
C: Hartwig, Legursky



Tony Hills is going to have a hard time making the team this year as Essex can provide depth at OT.

Chris Scott projects as a guard in the NFL.

as for Urbik, the Steelers have him practicing at center in the OTAs. i think he will be competing against Legursky for a roster spot.

Ciron Black could compete for a spot if he gets himself in shape. He should be able to play RT and both guards. He is a good run blocker.

I'm excited to see this guy in camp. Probably more so than any UDFA ever.

I remember back a couple of years ago when there was a huge run on OTs. After that draft SFL (I miss that guy, wonder if he will ever resurface :wink: ) was talking about the crop of tackles coming in the following year (last year) and I remember the name Ciron Black as a top prospect.

Now, a year after that I see the name again as a UDFA? Let's see which guy shows up, the prospect or the guy who can't get drafted.

Chadman
04-27-2010, 09:10 AM
Captain Lemming is right- Urbik was surpassed by an undrafted free agent with exactly the same amount of NFL experience as he had.

Only thing- Urbik was the Steelers 3rd round pick- not undrafted like Foster.

And before you sprout on about position flexibility- Urbik played both OG & OT in college- Foster played OT. Go figure, huh? The OT got to play out of position ahead of the guy coming out of college with 'position flexibility'.

Is Urbik a bust? Too early to tell. But Training Camp will show something- and with actually roster competition, Chadman thinks Urbik might want to step it up- or go the way of Bruce Davis.

The early signs are simply not good at all.

aggiebones
04-27-2010, 01:09 PM
Urbik was a 4 year starter for Wisconsin. He may have started slow, but some guys take a year to adjust. He was not switching positions like Davis did from DE to OLB. Urbik needed a full year. I seriously doubt he's a 1 and done player. He WILL be back. Some of you guys jump too quickly to the next flavor, especially at OL. All guys aren't full on ready for the NFL. Now, if he comes in out of shape or hasn't been working out like its a real job, then maybe. But I expect a big jump for Kraig.

Oviedo
04-27-2010, 02:01 PM
Captain Lemming is right- Urbik was surpassed by an undrafted free agent with exactly the same amount of NFL experience as he had.

Only thing- Urbik was the Steelers 3rd round pick- not undrafted like Foster.

And before you sprout on about position flexibility- Urbik played both OG & OT in college- Foster played OT. Go figure, huh? The OT got to play out of position ahead of the guy coming out of college with 'position flexibility'.

Is Urbik a bust? Too early to tell. But Training Camp will show something- and with actually roster competition, Chadman thinks Urbik might want to step it up- or go the way of Bruce Davis.

The early signs are simply not good at all.

But do we really know all the facts. If not mistaken, Foster came from a scheme that employed a zone blocking scheme similar to that used by ex-OL Coach Larry Z. I believe that Urbik came from a man power blocking scheme at Wisconsin. Big difference and reason Foster could have picked up our scheme quicker. Same thing he had done for four years.

Urbik will be fine.

pfelix73
04-27-2010, 02:14 PM
No, that shouldn't matter at all. ZB is used by everyone, no matter the team. Some use it more than others, just depends, but that alone wouldn't make Urbik slip past Foster. Urbik just needs some time. We'll see how he does at camp.
:tt1

Eddie Spaghetti
04-27-2010, 04:09 PM
foster>urbik

the only reason ramon was an UDFA was because of the turrible hire of dave clawson his senior year at UT. i'm sure phil fulmer would like to have that hire back. it only cost him his job.

hawaiiansteel
04-27-2010, 04:25 PM
Right now, Urbik is behind Pouncey, Essex and Foster in the battle for the RG position. that would make him 4th string.

Right now, Urbik is behind Hartwig and Legursky (not even counting Pouncey) at the center position. that would make him 3rd string.

how many 3rd or 4th stringers make the team? Urbik will need to have a great training camp in order to leapfrog players that are currently ahead of him on the depth chart to make the team.

i have nothing against Urbik and wish him well. he has shown us absolutely nothing to this point, but if he can come into camp and show marked improvement and contribute to the Pittsburgh Steelers i will be the first to commend him.

Lebsteel
04-27-2010, 04:30 PM
Right now, Urbik is behind Pouncey, Essex and Foster in the battle for the RG position. that would make him 4th string.

Right now, Urbik is behind Hartwig and Legursky (not even counting Pouncey) at the center position. that would make him 3rd string.

how many 3rd or 4th stringers make the team? Urbik will need to have a great training camp in order to leapfrog players that are currently ahead of him on the depth chart to make the team.

i have nothing against Urbik and wish him well. he has shown us absolutely nothing to this point, but if he can come into camp and show marked improvement and contribute to the Pittsburgh Steelers i will be the first to commend him.

Where are you getting that info? Steelers.com has the first team, but no second or third strings are listed, so I would think the backups are all even at the start of training camp and last year's starters are slightly ahead of them.

Oviedo
04-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Pouncey OJT's at RG this year and moves to Center next opening spot for Urbik. Also again, don't assume that Kemo is a long term solution. He has a cap friendly contract that will allow us to easily cut him after this season.

Lebsteel
04-27-2010, 05:37 PM
http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=C&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Check out these ratings of our OL. Hartwig and Essex grade out as the absolute worst at their positions. Colon is the third best, after Joe Thomas and Jake Long.

Scary. Starting Pouncey and Urbik/Foster right now couldn't be much worse, I don't think.

hawaiiansteel
04-27-2010, 05:56 PM
Right now, Urbik is behind Pouncey, Essex and Foster in the battle for the RG position. that would make him 4th string.

Right now, Urbik is behind Hartwig and Legursky (not even counting Pouncey) at the center position. that would make him 3rd string.

how many 3rd or 4th stringers make the team? Urbik will need to have a great training camp in order to leapfrog players that are currently ahead of him on the depth chart to make the team.

i have nothing against Urbik and wish him well. he has shown us absolutely nothing to this point, but if he can come into camp and show marked improvement and contribute to the Pittsburgh Steelers i will be the first to commend him.

Where are you getting that info? Steelers.com has the first team, but no second or third strings are listed, so I would think the backups are all even at the start of training camp and last year's starters are slightly ahead of them.


well, let's see...

Maurkice Pouncey was our 1st Round draft choice and is being moved to RG.

Trai Essex was our starter at RG last season.

Ramon Foster started 4 games last season at OG while Kraig Urbik never even dressed for a game once.

sounds like Pouncey, Essex and Foster would be considered to be ahead of Urbik in the battle for the RG position to me. i'm not saying Urbik can't win the job, only that he has some ground to make up as he has shown us nothing so far.

Captain Lemming
04-28-2010, 03:19 AM
Kemoeatu was inactive for 15 games his rookie season...he dressed for one game, but did not play...

Kemo played in three games in his second season...he started a game, played a significant amount the next game and started the third game...after than, he went back to being inactive for the rest of the year...

He played in 15 games his third year and became a starter after that...

Urbik could very well be on a similar learning curve...I wouldn't count him out just yet, because lack of playing time in your first few years doesn't necessarily mean diddly poo...

Are you daring to question message board talent evaluators and the hours of information and the hours they have spent observing practices? Crazy person!!!! Don't introduce facts into emotional based discussions.

Good post :Cheers

Message board evaluators?
Try the team training camp evaluators who had a rookie free agent starting while Urbik could not even get a grass stain on his cleats. Urbik could not dress because he could not beat out the worst starting right guard in the league and another rookie.

Captain Lemming
04-28-2010, 03:29 AM
What if Pouncey cannot win either a guard or center spot? Disapointing.

But what if he doesnt dress, worse.

What if undrafted free agent former Vanderbilt center Bradley Vierling plays and starts due to a Hartings injury while Pouncey still never sees the field?

hawaiiansteel
04-28-2010, 03:31 AM
Kemoeatu was inactive for 15 games his rookie season...he dressed for one game, but did not play...

Kemo played in three games in his second season...he started a game, played a significant amount the next game and started the third game...after than, he went back to being inactive for the rest of the year...

He played in 15 games his third year and became a starter after that...

Urbik could very well be on a similar learning curve...I wouldn't count him out just yet, because lack of playing time in your first few years doesn't necessarily mean diddly poo...

Are you daring to question message board talent evaluators and the hours of information and the hours they have spent observing practices? Crazy person!!!! Don't introduce facts into emotional based discussions.

Good post :Cheers

Message board evaluators?
Try the team training camp evaluators who had a rookie free agent starting while Urbik could not even get a grass stain on his cleats. Urbik could not dress because he could not beat out the worst starting right guard in the league and another rookie.



Captain, i completely agree with you....check out this excerpt from the latest Ed Bouchette chat transcript:




davidf412: Who do you foresee as our starting offensive line at the seasons start.

Ed Bouchette: Same as last season except at right guard, where Pouncey will compete with Ramon Foster and Trai Essex.



ok all you Kraig Urbik defenders, Ed Bouchette doesn't even mention him...Urbik has shown nothing to date and is definitely facing an uphill battle to get on the field, let alone make the team.

Lebsteel
04-28-2010, 08:54 AM
Kemoeatu was inactive for 15 games his rookie season...he dressed for one game, but did not play...

Kemo played in three games in his second season...he started a game, played a significant amount the next game and started the third game...after than, he went back to being inactive for the rest of the year...

He played in 15 games his third year and became a starter after that...

Urbik could very well be on a similar learning curve...I wouldn't count him out just yet, because lack of playing time in your first few years doesn't necessarily mean diddly poo...

Are you daring to question message board talent evaluators and the hours of information and the hours they have spent observing practices? Crazy person!!!! Don't introduce facts into emotional based discussions.

Good post :Cheers

Message board evaluators?
Try the team training camp evaluators who had a rookie free agent starting while Urbik could not even get a grass stain on his cleats. Urbik could not dress because he could not beat out the worst starting right guard in the league and another rookie.



Captain, i completely agree with you....check out this excerpt from the latest Ed Bouchette chat transcript:




davidf412: Who do you foresee as our starting offensive line at the seasons start.

Ed Bouchette: Same as last season except at right guard, where Pouncey will compete with Ramon Foster and Trai Essex.



ok all you Kraig Urbik defenders, Ed Bouchette doesn't even mention him...Urbik has shown nothing to date and is definitely facing an uphill battle to get on the field, let alone make the team.

Maybe Ed has a very bad memory??

Cut Urbik and then cut the talent evaluators who constantly blow our 2nd pick in the draft! I'd prefer to have a little more optimism, instead of being so critical, but maybe that's just me. Have a little hope, man...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-28-2010, 09:45 AM
Wow guys...Take your foot off Urbik's throat. Foster put Urbik in street clothes because Foster could play G & OT. Urbik was a one position player as a rookie. Urbik is learning the C position so he could become an active player on game day. He is in the battle with Legursky right now.

If the coaches feel confident that Urbik could handle the C position in game situations...I believe he will make the roster. If he looks like he is only suited for the G position and he can't win the RG spot at camp end...I believe his roster spot is in jeopardy. To understand it better, look at this scenario. "Whenever" the Steelers feel confident Pouncey takes over the C spot (2010 or 2011), having Urbik on the roster playing 2 spots gives the OL the flexability needed on game day. If Urbik starts at RG, he could be the #2 C. If he is a reserve, he dresses game day and is the #2 G & C. He needs to overtake Legursky because that is his spot. End of camp, Steelers are confident in Urbik to play C and he makes the roster with Legursky being released. If you have Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, & Colon starting...Urbik & Essex dress. Urbik would be Legursky because that was Legursky's role last year. If Urbik doesn't make strides, the Foster & Essex dress.


The best case scenario would be for Pouncey to take the C spot away from Hartwig before the season starts. That would be very difficult to do given the position responsibility for a rookie as a Steeler. However, it has been done before all over the league. Since Colbert & Tomlin seem to be listening to the Rooneys about "running the football more" perhaps they will also listen to "Our young guys need to see the field sooner" remark. Also, the Steelers will have some difficult decisions to make for the final 53 and holding on to Hartwig for 1 more year could force them to take a risk & try to stick a promising rookie on the PS in final cuts at many other positions. To me, this will be the most crucial battle going on in camp....The C & RG spot. If Pouncey makes strides and Hartwig continues to noticably digress, a difficult decision will have to be made. Personally, I saw enough from Legursky when he started in the preseason to say move on without Hartwig. At worst case, Legursky could man the C spot with Pouncey at RG. Foster, Essex, & Urbik remain if Urbik shows improvement. Hills, Scott, & Scott fight it out for the last spot. Chris Scott could safely go to the PS at the end of the preseason. Have the 2 big fellas from Texas fight it out for the last spot.

I want to see if the Steelers think they need to keep Hartwig on this roster. If Pouncey plays with the first team at any time in the preseason and makes all the calls...They will have a hard time to stick him at RG after seeing the elevated play at C when he is in there. JMO

Chadman
04-28-2010, 09:55 AM
Wow guys...Take your foot off Urbik's throat. Foster put Urbik in street clothes because Foster could play G & OT. Urbik was a one position player as a rookie. Urbik is learning the C position so he could become an active player on game day. He is in the battle with Legursky right now.

If the coaches feel confident that Urbik could handle the C position in game situations...I believe he will make the roster. If he looks like he is only suited for the G position and he can't win the RG spot at camp end...I believe his roster spot is in jeopardy. To understand it better, look at this scenario. "Whenever" the Steelers feel confident Pouncey takes over the C spot (2010 or 2011), having Urbik on the roster playing 2 spots gives the OL the flexability needed on game day. If Urbik starts at RG, he could be the #2 C. If he is a reserve, he dresses game day and is the #2 G & C. He needs to overtake Legursky because that is his spot. End of camp, Steelers are confident in Urbik to play C and he makes the roster with Legursky being released. If you have Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, & Colon starting...Urbik & Foster dress. Urbik would be Legursky because that was Legursky's role last year.


The best case scenario would be for Pouncey to take the C spot away from Hartwig before the season starts. That would be very difficult to do given the position responsibility for a rookie as a Steeler. However, it has been done before all over the league. Since Colbert & Tomlin seem to be listening to the Rooneys about "running the football more" perhaps they will also listen to "Our young guys need to see the field sooner" remark. Also, the Steelers will have some difficult decisions to make for the final 53 and holding on to Hartwig for 1 more year could force them to take a risk & try to stick a promising rookie on the PS in final cuts at many other positions. To me, this will be the most crucial battle going on in camp....The C & RG spot. If Pouncey makes strides and Hartwig continues to noticably digress, a difficult decision will have to be made. Personally, I saw enough from Legursky when he started in the preseason to say move on without Hartwig. At worst case, Legursky could man the C spot with Pouncey at RG. Foster, Essex, & Urbik remain if Urbik shows improvement. Hills, Scott, & Scott fight it out for the last spot. Chris Scott could safely go to the PS at the end of the preseason. Have the 2 big fellas from Texas fight it out for the last spot.

I want to see if the Steelers think they need to keep Hartwig on this roster. If Pouncey plays with the first team at any time in the preseason and makes all the calls...They will have a hard time to stick him at RG after seeing the elevated play at C when he is in there. JMO

Going to disagree with you there JPN- Urbik played OG & OT at college while Foster played OT.

That argument doesn't wash about position flexibility. The undrafted rookie OT beat out the 3rd round OG/OT for the starting OG spot.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-28-2010, 10:05 AM
Wow guys...Take your foot off Urbik's throat. Foster put Urbik in street clothes because Foster could play G & OT. Urbik was a one position player as a rookie. Urbik is learning the C position so he could become an active player on game day. He is in the battle with Legursky right now.

If the coaches feel confident that Urbik could handle the C position in game situations...I believe he will make the roster. If he looks like he is only suited for the G position and he can't win the RG spot at camp end...I believe his roster spot is in jeopardy. To understand it better, look at this scenario. "Whenever" the Steelers feel confident Pouncey takes over the C spot (2010 or 2011), having Urbik on the roster playing 2 spots gives the OL the flexability needed on game day. If Urbik starts at RG, he could be the #2 C. If he is a reserve, he dresses game day and is the #2 G & C. He needs to overtake Legursky because that is his spot. End of camp, Steelers are confident in Urbik to play C and he makes the roster with Legursky being released. If you have Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, & Colon starting...Urbik & Foster dress. Urbik would be Legursky because that was Legursky's role last year.


The best case scenario would be for Pouncey to take the C spot away from Hartwig before the season starts. That would be very difficult to do given the position responsibility for a rookie as a Steeler. However, it has been done before all over the league. Since Colbert & Tomlin seem to be listening to the Rooneys about "running the football more" perhaps they will also listen to "Our young guys need to see the field sooner" remark. Also, the Steelers will have some difficult decisions to make for the final 53 and holding on to Hartwig for 1 more year could force them to take a risk & try to stick a promising rookie on the PS in final cuts at many other positions. To me, this will be the most crucial battle going on in camp....The C & RG spot. If Pouncey makes strides and Hartwig continues to noticably digress, a difficult decision will have to be made. Personally, I saw enough from Legursky when he started in the preseason to say move on without Hartwig. At worst case, Legursky could man the C spot with Pouncey at RG. Foster, Essex, & Urbik remain if Urbik shows improvement. Hills, Scott, & Scott fight it out for the last spot. Chris Scott could safely go to the PS at the end of the preseason. Have the 2 big fellas from Texas fight it out for the last spot.

I want to see if the Steelers think they need to keep Hartwig on this roster. If Pouncey plays with the first team at any time in the preseason and makes all the calls...They will have a hard time to stick him at RG after seeing the elevated play at C when he is in there. JMO

Going to disagree with you there JPN- Urbik played OG & OT at college while Foster played OT.

That argument doesn't wash about position flexibility. The undrafted rookie OT beat out the 3rd round OG/OT for the starting OG spot.
And I will disagree back. Urbik does not have the feet to play OT in the NFL. That was known from day 1. Foster played all OL positions except C. Having Urbik active came day with any combination last year would not work. You can't have your #6 or #7 play one position on game day. Foster G/OT Legursky C/OG. Urbik as a rookie was a G only.

Captain Lemming
04-28-2010, 10:29 AM
Wow guys...Take your foot off Urbik's throat. Foster put Urbik in street clothes because Foster could play G & OT. Urbik was a one position player as a rookie. Urbik is learning the C position so he could become an active player on game day. He is in the battle with Legursky right now.

Funny thing is that Urbik was a 2 position player in college, having been both a tackle and a guard, while playing guard was completely new to Foster who was only a tackle in college


If the coaches feel confident that Urbik could handle the C position in game situations...I believe he will make the roster. If he looks like he is only suited for the G position and he can't win the RG spot at camp end...I believe his roster spot is in jeopardy. To understand it better, look at this scenario. "Whenever" the Steelers feel confident Pouncey takes over the C spot (2010 or 2011), having Urbik on the roster playing 2 spots gives the OL the flexability needed on game day. If Urbik starts at RG, he could be the #2 C. If he is a reserve, he dresses game day and is the #2 G & C. He needs to overtake Legursky because that is his spot. End of camp, Steelers are confident in Urbik to play C and he makes the roster with Legursky being released. If you have Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, & Colon starting...Urbik & Foster dress. Urbik would be Legursky because that was Legursky's role last year.

Now this makes perfect sense. I never said he cant make the team, I just dont see him as having a good chance at starting anytime soon. I am not excited by his prospects. I believe he was a disappointment last season dispite all the excuses. As bad as our line was the second player drafted should be dressing. Dont compare his to a late round pick (Kemo) who has as his weakness the gray matter between his ears.

The question we had for Urbik this time last year, was the same as we have for Pouncey this year. Can he step in and be the starter? The position was there for the taking. Now the question which you just stated in DEFENDING HIM is can he make the roster?

He was the second player selected, and you arent sure he can beat out the last interior lineman.

You make my case better than I ever could.

Oviedo
04-28-2010, 10:54 AM
Wow guys...Take your foot off Urbik's throat. Foster put Urbik in street clothes because Foster could play G & OT. Urbik was a one position player as a rookie. Urbik is learning the C position so he could become an active player on game day. He is in the battle with Legursky right now.

If the coaches feel confident that Urbik could handle the C position in game situations...I believe he will make the roster. If he looks like he is only suited for the G position and he can't win the RG spot at camp end...I believe his roster spot is in jeopardy. To understand it better, look at this scenario. "Whenever" the Steelers feel confident Pouncey takes over the C spot (2010 or 2011), having Urbik on the roster playing 2 spots gives the OL the flexability needed on game day. If Urbik starts at RG, he could be the #2 C. If he is a reserve, he dresses game day and is the #2 G & C. He needs to overtake Legursky because that is his spot. End of camp, Steelers are confident in Urbik to play C and he makes the roster with Legursky being released. If you have Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, & Colon starting...Urbik & Essex dress. Urbik would be Legursky because that was Legursky's role last year. If Urbik doesn't make strides, the Foster & Essex dress.


The best case scenario would be for Pouncey to take the C spot away from Hartwig before the season starts. That would be very difficult to do given the position responsibility for a rookie as a Steeler. However, it has been done before all over the league. Since Colbert & Tomlin seem to be listening to the Rooneys about "running the football more" perhaps they will also listen to "Our young guys need to see the field sooner" remark. Also, the Steelers will have some difficult decisions to make for the final 53 and holding on to Hartwig for 1 more year could force them to take a risk & try to stick a promising rookie on the PS in final cuts at many other positions. To me, this will be the most crucial battle going on in camp....The C & RG spot. If Pouncey makes strides and Hartwig continues to noticably digress, a difficult decision will have to be made. Personally, I saw enough from Legursky when he started in the preseason to say move on without Hartwig. At worst case, Legursky could man the C spot with Pouncey at RG. Foster, Essex, & Urbik remain if Urbik shows improvement. Hills, Scott, & Scott fight it out for the last spot. Chris Scott could safely go to the PS at the end of the preseason. Have the 2 big fellas from Texas fight it out for the last spot.

I want to see if the Steelers think they need to keep Hartwig on this roster. If Pouncey plays with the first team at any time in the preseason and makes all the calls...They will have a hard time to stick him at RG after seeing the elevated play at C when he is in there. JMO

Wow! Are you really insinuating that the front office and the coaching staff have a long term plan and philosophy for players versus what they did in one specific year? That is a pretty radical proposal. :wink:

So you think that there might be a multi year development plan for Urbik similar to what Kemo did? Do you really think you can run a football team that way?

Like I said before, in 2011 (or 2012) Pouncey is the Center and Urbik is the RG.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-28-2010, 11:20 AM
]

Funny thing is that Urbik was a 2 position player in college, having been both a tackle and a guard, while playing guard was completely new to Foster who was only a tackle in college

"In college" is the only answer needed. In the evaluation process you always hear "can't play at the next level". Urbik was not expected to play OT at this level from day 1. He doesn't have good enough feet to protect his shoulder. I guess you never read the scouting report after they signed Foster last year. You can't pull it up on nfldraftscout now because it prompts you to cbs. Foster can play all positions on the OL except C. Just because you don't start there in a game doesn't mean you can't play it. Chris Scott, Steelers draft choice, can play all 5 positions on the OL. Like Foster, he practiced at them. You need to play many positions on the OL. You won't make it at this level if you can't. The Steelers have alot of love for TN OL because of their position flexibility. They brought in Jacques McClendon for a visit predraft. He played G at Ten but also was a back-up C. Tomlin's friend Kiffin seems to provide him some good info.

Now this makes perfect sense. I never said he cant make the team, I just dont see him as having a good chance at starting anytime soon. I am not excited by his prospects. I believe he was a disappointment last season dispite all the excuses. As bad as our line was the second player drafted should be dressing. Dont compare his to a late round pick (Kemo) who has as his weakness the gray matter between his ears.

Many 3rd round picks don't dress or have immediate impacts. As I said before, the Steelers are not going to activate a OL who can only play one postion. They only carry 2 reserve OL on game day. This was a topic on one of the roundtable discussions with the Pittsburgh boys and the word was "position flexibility" that Foster provide over Urbik last year. That is the reason now you see Urbik working at C. I personally believe if he can't play C and he doesn't win the starting spot, he might be on his way out.

The question we had for Urbik this time last year, was the same as we have for Pouncey this year. Can he step in and be the starter? The position was there for the taking. Now the question which you just stated in DEFENDING HIM is can he make the roster?

He was the second player selected, and you arent sure he can beat out the last interior lineman.

You make my case better than I ever could.

Pouncey can play C & G...There is the position flexibilty I mentioned. He is no comparison to Urbik. Urbik was a 3rd round selection...Stating it as a 2nd pick..fine....but A 3RD ROUND PICK that couldn't win the starting spot. Write Lewis off too because he didn't take the job from a weak CB position and Gay beat him out. Not many 3rd round picks start for the Steelers. But an UDFA did last year. The Steelers coaches must have been more confident in Foster's play over Urbik when one had to start. But Foster made more sense in the reserve role to dress on gameday. Be careful in saying DEFENDING HIM and "making your case"....I said if he can't show he can play C too...His spot is in jeopardy. You are "tooting" your own horn when there is no argument. I am objectively expressing my opinion of why Urbik was inactive and what I think he needs to do to make the roster this year.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-28-2010, 11:27 AM
Wow guys...Take your foot off Urbik's throat. Foster put Urbik in street clothes because Foster could play G & OT. Urbik was a one position player as a rookie. Urbik is learning the C position so he could become an active player on game day. He is in the battle with Legursky right now.

If the coaches feel confident that Urbik could handle the C position in game situations...I believe he will make the roster. If he looks like he is only suited for the G position and he can't win the RG spot at camp end...I believe his roster spot is in jeopardy. To understand it better, look at this scenario. "Whenever" the Steelers feel confident Pouncey takes over the C spot (2010 or 2011), having Urbik on the roster playing 2 spots gives the OL the flexability needed on game day. If Urbik starts at RG, he could be the #2 C. If he is a reserve, he dresses game day and is the #2 G & C. He needs to overtake Legursky because that is his spot. End of camp, Steelers are confident in Urbik to play C and he makes the roster with Legursky being released. If you have Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, & Colon starting...Urbik & Essex dress. Urbik would be Legursky because that was Legursky's role last year. If Urbik doesn't make strides, the Foster & Essex dress.


The best case scenario would be for Pouncey to take the C spot away from Hartwig before the season starts. That would be very difficult to do given the position responsibility for a rookie as a Steeler. However, it has been done before all over the league. Since Colbert & Tomlin seem to be listening to the Rooneys about "running the football more" perhaps they will also listen to "Our young guys need to see the field sooner" remark. Also, the Steelers will have some difficult decisions to make for the final 53 and holding on to Hartwig for 1 more year could force them to take a risk & try to stick a promising rookie on the PS in final cuts at many other positions. To me, this will be the most crucial battle going on in camp....The C & RG spot. If Pouncey makes strides and Hartwig continues to noticably digress, a difficult decision will have to be made. Personally, I saw enough from Legursky when he started in the preseason to say move on without Hartwig. At worst case, Legursky could man the C spot with Pouncey at RG. Foster, Essex, & Urbik remain if Urbik shows improvement. Hills, Scott, & Scott fight it out for the last spot. Chris Scott could safely go to the PS at the end of the preseason. Have the 2 big fellas from Texas fight it out for the last spot.

I want to see if the Steelers think they need to keep Hartwig on this roster. If Pouncey plays with the first team at any time in the preseason and makes all the calls...They will have a hard time to stick him at RG after seeing the elevated play at C when he is in there. JMO

Wow! Are you really insinuating that the front office and the coaching staff have a long term plan and philosophy for players versus what they did in one specific year? That is a pretty radical proposal. :wink:

So you think that there might be a multi year development plan for Urbik similar to what Kemo did? Do you really think you can run a football team that way?

Like I said before, in 2011 (or 2012) Pouncey is the Center and Urbik is the RG.

If it happens O...I wouldn't be surprised. We should get a good feel for it in year 2. I don't think the Steelers will give up on him if he makes strides and shows he could play the C position if needed.

Oviedo
04-28-2010, 11:46 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":mljzjw1j]Wow guys...Take your foot off Urbik's throat. Foster put Urbik in street clothes because Foster could play G & OT. Urbik was a one position player as a rookie. Urbik is learning the C position so he could become an active player on game day. He is in the battle with Legursky right now.

If the coaches feel confident that Urbik could handle the C position in game situations...I believe he will make the roster. If he looks like he is only suited for the G position and he can't win the RG spot at camp end...I believe his roster spot is in jeopardy. To understand it better, look at this scenario. "Whenever" the Steelers feel confident Pouncey takes over the C spot (2010 or 2011), having Urbik on the roster playing 2 spots gives the OL the flexability needed on game day. If Urbik starts at RG, he could be the #2 C. If he is a reserve, he dresses game day and is the #2 G & C. He needs to overtake Legursky because that is his spot. End of camp, Steelers are confident in Urbik to play C and he makes the roster with Legursky being released. If you have Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, & Colon starting...Urbik & Essex dress. Urbik would be Legursky because that was Legursky's role last year. If Urbik doesn't make strides, the Foster & Essex dress.


The best case scenario would be for Pouncey to take the C spot away from Hartwig before the season starts. That would be very difficult to do given the position responsibility for a rookie as a Steeler. However, it has been done before all over the league. Since Colbert & Tomlin seem to be listening to the Rooneys about "running the football more" perhaps they will also listen to "Our young guys need to see the field sooner" remark. Also, the Steelers will have some difficult decisions to make for the final 53 and holding on to Hartwig for 1 more year could force them to take a risk & try to stick a promising rookie on the PS in final cuts at many other positions. To me, this will be the most crucial battle going on in camp....The C & RG spot. If Pouncey makes strides and Hartwig continues to noticably digress, a difficult decision will have to be made. Personally, I saw enough from Legursky when he started in the preseason to say move on without Hartwig. At worst case, Legursky could man the C spot with Pouncey at RG. Foster, Essex, & Urbik remain if Urbik shows improvement. Hills, Scott, & Scott fight it out for the last spot. Chris Scott could safely go to the PS at the end of the preseason. Have the 2 big fellas from Texas fight it out for the last spot.

I want to see if the Steelers think they need to keep Hartwig on this roster. If Pouncey plays with the first team at any time in the preseason and makes all the calls...They will have a hard time to stick him at RG after seeing the elevated play at C when he is in there. JMO

Wow! Are you really insinuating that the front office and the coaching staff have a long term plan and philosophy for players versus what they did in one specific year? That is a pretty radical proposal. :wink:

So you think that there might be a multi year development plan for Urbik similar to what Kemo did? Do you really think you can run a football team that way?

Like I said before, in 2011 (or 2012) Pouncey is the Center and Urbik is the RG.

If it happens O...I wouldn't be surprised. We should get a good feel for it in year 2. I don't think the Steelers will give up on him if he makes strides and shows he could play the C position if needed.[/quote:mljzjw1j]

IMO the OL players who are at risk not being here in 2011 are:

Hills-gone in 2010 because of Johnathon Scott
Legursky-gone is 2010 or 2011 because of Pouncey and if Urbik can play Center
Hartwig-gone in 2011 because of Pouncey
Kemo-gone in 2011/12 because of Ramon Foster, Urbik and the rookie Scott
Essex-gone in 2011 because Foster will have the versatility to be game day back up at both G and OT. Plus I think we get an OT early in 2011 draft or sign another veteran back up at OT

hawaiiansteel
04-28-2010, 08:06 PM
IMO the OL players who are at risk not being here in 2011 are:

Hills-gone in 2010 because of Johnathon Scott
Legursky-gone is 2010 or 2011 because of Pouncey and if Urbik can play Center
Hartwig-gone in 2011 because of Pouncey
Kemo-gone in 2011/12 because of Ramon Foster, Urbik and the rookie Scott
Essex-gone in 2011 because Foster will have the versatility to be game day back up at both G and OT. Plus I think we get an OT early in 2011 draft or sign another veteran back up at OT



and if Legursky beats out Urbik for the C/G swingman position, Urbik is in danger of getting cut. i believe these two players are vying for one roster position...

Shoe
04-28-2010, 08:34 PM
http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=C&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Check out these ratings of our OL. Hartwig and Essex grade out as the absolute worst at their positions. Colon is the third best, after Joe Thomas and Jake Long.

Scary. Starting Pouncey and Urbik/Foster right now couldn't be much worse, I don't think.

Anyone else amazed at Colon's rating? It would appear that the stink (of the guys he's playing with) has stuck on Colon a little too much. If we could replace one (or both) of those bums on our line, wow... what a difference we might see.

Captain Lemming
04-28-2010, 09:23 PM
Stating it as a 2nd pick..fine....but A 3RD ROUND PICK that couldn't win the starting spot. Write Lewis off too because he didn't take the job from a weak CB position and Gay beat him out.
Let's play apples and apples.
Lewis was injured of else he might have got a shot, the other rook got his shot.

If an undrafted free agent ends the season as a starter over a healthy Lewis, yeah I'm sayin Lewis is NOT the answer.


Not many 3rd round picks start for the Steelers. But an UDFA did last year. The Steelers coaches must have been more confident in Foster's play over Urbik when one had to start.

THAT is the basis for my take. It is not just that he didnt start. I said myself most rookies dont start. What you just said is my problem with Urbik. You think it is tough for a 3rd round pick to start? Try a rookie free agent. They have so much more to prove. Coaches dont want to look like idiots, they want the high picks to succeed. (exibit A Frank the tank makes the squad over Redman :roll: ).

Name for me all the free agent rookies that have started games for the Steelers EVER, even due to injury.

Here our starter was bad, veteran backup so bad that Foster jumped ahead of him. Urbik had as easy a path as one can have to getting on the field.

Let me add, we heard during TRAINING CAMP that Foster was impressing while not a positive word about Urbik.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-29-2010, 10:32 AM
Let's play apples and apples.
Lewis was injured of else he might have got a shot, the other rook got his shot.

If an undrafted free agent ends the season as a starter over a healthy Lewis, yeah I'm sayin Lewis is NOT the answer.


Your theory isn't strong. If an undrafted FA was a better ST player or could play S & CB he might dress while Lewis sits. If you remember, Burnett dressed before Lewis. Burnett got his chance on ST while Lewis watched. When they both finally dressed I believe Ratliff was released. SO release Lewis because Burnett was a 5th.

If you are not starting other considerations are made. Foster dressed because he could play G and was the back-up RT. Urbik was evaluated as a G only by camp end. Foster & Legursky gave the Steelers 4 OTs, 4 Gs, & 2 Cs. There would be only one injury that would force the Steelers into 2 position changes on the OL gameday and that would be if Starks went down. That is something you don't want to do game day because of the chemistry on the OL. Urbik didn't give them that flexibilty. If it was Urbik & Legursky it would be 3 OTs, 4 Gs, & 2 Cs last year. The Steelers would only have one injury that could happen besides C where one position change would occur. That would be if a G went down Urbik could come in. Now, if Essex goes down Urbik comes in but you have no OT left. If you think that the best position players dress on gameday you don't understand how the NFL works.

I thought Foster out played Urbik in the preseason and agreed with the assessment. Why was Urbik drafted and Foster undrafted. "Apples for Apples" as you put it...Urbik showed more upside at G. He is a great anchor. But he is a long way from ever being able to play RT in this league.




THAT is the basis for my take. It is not just that he didnt start. I said myself most rookies dont start. What you just said is my problem with Urbik. You think it is tough for a 3rd round pick to start? Try a rookie free agent. They have so much more to prove. Coaches dont want to look like idiots, they want the high picks to succeed. (exibit A Frank the tank makes the squad over Redman :roll: ).

Name for me all the free agent rookies that have started games for the Steelers EVER, even due to injury.

Here our starter was bad, veteran backup so bad that Foster jumped ahead of him. Urbik had as easy a path as one can have to getting on the field.

Let me add, we heard during TRAINING CAMP that Foster was impressing while not a positive word about Urbik.


Frank made the team as the starting FB. He switched positions and could play ST. "Exibit A" gets an F.

In 2001, Keydrick Vincent was an UDFA that was active for 5 games and started that year over drafted Mathias Nkwenti & Chukky Okobi. Nkwenti & Okobi dressed for 2 games combined their rookie seasons. Vincent dressed for 5 and started for Faneca. Why? Nkwent & Okobi couldn't play OT. Hell...I didn't think they could play period. Vincent gave them the flexibilty to play both G & RT if needed. Vincent is the best comparisson to Foster. There are many college OT that go undrafted that move to G. Being that alot of them have better feet than the Gs in that class...It is very easy for one of them to succeed. You always here about being able to play multiple positions on the OL. If you can't, you better be the starter at the one you play.

Foster jumped over Urbik...Who's the vet back-up? Legursky? Hills only plays OT.

I thought Foster played better than Urbik in camp and the preseason. But it is year 2 now. Urbik has to show something at G and also show he could play another position to hold his roster spot. There is a chance he will never pan out. There is also a possibility that Urbik makes big strides and locks down the RG position while Foster ends up backing them up. We will all know coming out of the preseason where it is going. Chris Scott can play all 5 positions on the OL and is a perfect player to sit on the PS, get in better shape, and learn. Even if he never becomes a starter...He is the type of OL you want as your #6 or #7. Legursky & Urbik have a fire under their A$$.

Oviedo
04-29-2010, 11:37 AM
http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=C&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Check out these ratings of our OL. Hartwig and Essex grade out as the absolute worst at their positions. Colon is the third best, after Joe Thomas and Jake Long.

Scary. Starting Pouncey and Urbik/Foster right now couldn't be much worse, I don't think.

Anyone else amazed at Colon's rating? It would appear that the stink (of the guys he's playing with) has stuck on Colon a little too much. If we could replace one (or both) of those bums on our line, wow... what a difference we might see.

Not at all. Most of the sacks came up the middle and not around the Tackles. IMO Kemo was just as bad as Essex. What did he grade out as?

ikestops85
04-29-2010, 11:44 AM
I think the biggest evidence against Urbik was when Kemo got hurt Foster started for him at guard. That had nothing to do with position flexibility or who was dressing. If Urbik was showing anything he would have gotten the starts. I hope Urbik makes a big jump this year but if he doesn't then his butt could be sitting on the bubble.

I'd really like to see Legursky make the leap this year and edge Hartwig out as the starter. The only way Legursky could be worse was if his name was spelled M-A-H-A-N.

With the Ben crap and all the team drama this offseason I'm thinking this is a throw away year so let's use some of the younger guys and see what we have.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-29-2010, 02:05 PM
I think the biggest evidence against Urbik was when Kemo got hurt Foster started for him at guard. That had nothing to do with position flexibility or who was dressing. If Urbik was showing anything he would have gotten the starts. I hope Urbik makes a big jump this year but if he doesn't then his butt could be sitting on the bubble.

I'd really like to see Legursky make the leap this year and edge Hartwig out as the starter. The only way Legursky could be worse was if his name was spelled M-A-H-A-N.

With the Ben crap and all the team drama this offseason I'm thinking this is a throw away year so let's use some of the younger guys and see what we have.

When the starters were healthy, Foster dressed with Legursky because of flexibilty. That was dicussed at the round table in the beginning of the season. Tunch actually said that came from Z. Here is the scary part, if Foster couldn't go because of injury, they might have considered dressing Hills over Urbik to give them another OT while Legursky would have to hold down the interior. When Kemo went down, Foster started because he was playing the best at G and nobody is disputing that. Hills was active, If I recall correctly, to give them another OT. If Urbik can't claim RG and he can't show he could backup all interior spots, I believe he might not make the final cut.

phillyesq
04-29-2010, 03:02 PM
Wow! Are you really insinuating that the front office and the coaching staff have a long term plan and philosophy for players versus what they did in one specific year? That is a pretty radical proposal. :wink:

So you think that there might be a multi year development plan for Urbik similar to what Kemo did? Do you really think you can run a football team that way?

Like I said before, in 2011 (or 2012) Pouncey is the Center and Urbik is the RG.

If it happens O...I wouldn't be surprised. We should get a good feel for it in year 2. I don't think the Steelers will give up on him if he makes strides and shows he could play the C position if needed.[/quote]

IMO the OL players who are at risk not being here in 2011 are:

Hills-gone in 2010 because of Johnathon Scott
Legursky-gone is 2010 or 2011 because of Pouncey and if Urbik can play Center
Hartwig-gone in 2011 because of Pouncey
Kemo-gone in 2011/12 because of Ramon Foster, Urbik and the rookie Scott
Essex-gone in 2011 because Foster will have the versatility to be game day back up at both G and OT. Plus I think we get an OT early in 2011 draft or sign another veteran back up at OT[/quote]

The locks on the roster are likely:

Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, Colon, Essex, leaving 3 or 4 additional roster spots.

J. Scott, Hills, C. Scott, Foster, Legursky and Urbik are probably the main competitors, unless an UDFA steps up in camp.

Hills is most likely gone. I think J. Scott has a good chance to stick because of his familiarity with the o-line coach and because he can play OT. If Urbik can play OC, I think he and Legursky are probably competing for a spot. If C. Scott can play center, as he claims, he may also get into the mix there. Foster has flexibility, and is similar to Essex. He may be hurt by not being able to play OC. This group has a lot of position flexibility, but also a lot of mediocrity.

It wouldn't surprise me if Urbik took a big step forward this year and ended up in the mix to start at RG in 2011. It also wouldn't surprise me if he didn't progress and ended up getting cut in camp, ala Bruce Davis.

Oviedo
04-29-2010, 03:10 PM
Wow! Are you really insinuating that the front office and the coaching staff have a long term plan and philosophy for players versus what they did in one specific year? That is a pretty radical proposal. :wink:

So you think that there might be a multi year development plan for Urbik similar to what Kemo did? Do you really think you can run a football team that way?

Like I said before, in 2011 (or 2012) Pouncey is the Center and Urbik is the RG.

If it happens O...I wouldn't be surprised. We should get a good feel for it in year 2. I don't think the Steelers will give up on him if he makes strides and shows he could play the C position if needed.

IMO the OL players who are at risk not being here in 2011 are:

Hills-gone in 2010 because of Johnathon Scott
Legursky-gone is 2010 or 2011 because of Pouncey and if Urbik can play Center
Hartwig-gone in 2011 because of Pouncey
Kemo-gone in 2011/12 because of Ramon Foster, Urbik and the rookie Scott
Essex-gone in 2011 because Foster will have the versatility to be game day back up at both G and OT. Plus I think we get an OT early in 2011 draft or sign another veteran back up at OT[/quote]

The locks on the roster are likely:

Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Pouncey, Colon, Essex, leaving 3 or 4 additional roster spots.

J. Scott, Hills, C. Scott, Foster, Legursky and Urbik are probably the main competitors, unless an UDFA steps up in camp.

Hills is most likely gone. I think J. Scott has a good chance to stick because of his familiarity with the o-line coach and because he can play OT. If Urbik can play OC, I think he and Legursky are probably competing for a spot. If C. Scott can play center, as he claims, he may also get into the mix there. Foster has flexibility, and is similar to Essex. He may be hurt by not being able to play OC. This group has a lot of position flexibility, but also a lot of mediocrity.

It wouldn't surprise me if Urbik took a big step forward this year and ended up in the mix to start at RG in 2011. It also wouldn't surprise me if he didn't progress and ended up getting cut in camp, ala Bruce Davis.[/quote]

Urbik, Legursky or Scott could make life alot eaiser for themselves if they could learn to long snap.

I'm not sure Essex is a lock. He may have the inside track but J. Scott could fill the back up OT spot and then it gets down to Essex competing against the other Guards.

phillyesq
04-29-2010, 04:18 PM
Urbik, Legursky or Scott could make life alot eaiser for themselves if they could learn to long snap.

I'm not sure Essex is a lock. He may have the inside track but J. Scott could fill the back up OT spot and then it gets down to Essex competing against the other Guards.

Very true on the long snapping. Not only would it save a roster spot, it would bring immeasurable joy and pleasure to Pappy. :lol:

As for Essex, I'm not a big fan of his, but he has proven that he is somewhat competent at OT, and I think he was better than Foster at OG last year (not saying much). Then again, Foster is younger, and has the ability to improve, so maybe you are right. I'd be surprised if Essex isn't on the roster, but I suppose I may have gone too far including him in the "lock" category.