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flippy
04-23-2010, 08:14 AM
Does Pouncey have to be as good as Dirt Dawson to be worth the #18 pick?

How good does he have to be?

I'm glad we like him and all, but it seems like we're typically drafting in a position where we can draft a great center and we're typically not picking at #18 where we had a chance at one of the premiere players at a premiere position.

Did we reach for need?

Did we overrate Pouncey because there were no other quality centers in this draft?

I like that the Steelers say he's so good.

But I still have mixed feelings about this pick at this point.

But if he's as good as Dirt, I could easily change my mind.

Is he that good?

BURGH86STEEL
04-23-2010, 08:37 AM
Does Pouncey have to be as good as Dirt Dawson to be worth the #18 pick?

How good does he have to be?

I'm glad we like him and all, but it seems like we're typically drafting in a position where we can draft a great center and we're typically not picking at #18 where we had a chance at one of the premiere players at a premiere position.

Did we reach for need?

Did we overrate Pouncey because there were no other quality centers in this draft?

I like that the Steelers say he's so good.

But I still have mixed feelings about this pick at this point.

But if he's as good as Dirt, I could easily change my mind.

Is he that good?

I think the Steelers believe Pouncey will be a good player for them for the next 5 to 10 years.

I think your expectations are a little high to compare him to Dirt. Very few centers(2 or 3) in the history of the NFL could do what Dawson did. Only time will tell with any of the players drafted.

SteelAbility
04-23-2010, 09:05 AM
Does Pouncey have to be as good as Dirt Dawson to be worth the #18 pick?

How good does he have to be?

I'm glad we like him and all, but it seems like we're typically drafting in a position where we can draft a great center and we're typically not picking at #18 where we had a chance at one of the premiere players at a premiere position.

Did we reach for need?

Did we overrate Pouncey because there were no other quality centers in this draft?

I like that the Steelers say he's so good.

But I still have mixed feelings about this pick at this point.

But if he's as good as Dirt, I could easily change my mind.

Is he that good?

I think the Steelers believe Pouncey will be a good player for them for the next 5 to 10 years.

I think your expectations are a little high to compare him to Dirt. Very few centers(2 or 3) in the history of the NFL could do what Dawson did. Only time will tell with any of the players drafted.

Wasn't he capable of playing "pulling center?"

anger 82&95
04-23-2010, 09:08 AM
It's a great question, or series of questions. Here's what the gurus at ESPN think.
What he brings: Pouncey is a gifted athlete with great feet and mobility for his size. He also brings the versatility to line up at both a guard and center. His overall skill set should make him a more-than-adequate starter for years to come. Video analysis: McShay | Edwards How he fits: Pouncey will likely play guard initially and could move to center in due time. The Steelers allowed 50 sacks last season and Pouncey will be an upgrade in this area. He has better feet and pass-protection range than Chris Kemoeatu or Trai Essex. Current C Justin Hartwig is getting older and the Steelers needed Pouncey's versatility.

papillon
04-23-2010, 09:10 AM
Does Pouncey have to be as good as Dirt Dawson to be worth the #18 pick?

How good does he have to be?

I'm glad we like him and all, but it seems like we're typically drafting in a position where we can draft a great center and we're typically not picking at #18 where we had a chance at one of the premiere players at a premiere position.

Did we reach for need?

Did we overrate Pouncey because there were no other quality centers in this draft?

I like that the Steelers say he's so good.

But I still have mixed feelings about this pick at this point.

But if he's as good as Dirt, I could easily change my mind.

Is he that good?

Flip, I think the impact players on defense were gone when we drafted. There were a couple that I though might make it down to 18, but they didn't; so, I think the Steelers took the highest rated player on their board (BPA) when it was their turn to select.

Pouncey certainly doesn't have to be Dirt Dawson (who was probably the best center to ever play in the NFL or, at least, he's in the debate with Webster and Stephenson), if he plays at NFL caliber level for 10-12 years the Steelers made a great pick. It takes time to vet these types of evaluations.

Pappy

pfelix73
04-23-2010, 09:21 AM
As the draft unfolded last night, there were players already chosen ahead of them that I think the Steelers were looking at. 3 that come to mind are Thomas, Iupati, and Graham. when the Eagles moved up to get Graham, I was a bit shocked. then Iupati went right ahead of us to SF.

Well, Pouncey should be the eventual C, but I think for the present time, he'll be given the RG spot because of his pulling abilities- who knows, he could wind up at G for a while. If he falters at all, then theres Essex-who will probably move back to OT, and Foster.

Urbik could be the odd man out. Such a shame for a 3rd round pick. I hope he can get his act together during training camp.

:tt1

Shawn
04-23-2010, 09:25 AM
Pouncey was no reach...some mocks had him going to Denver at 12. Pouncey by some scouts was said to be the most talented in the last decade. There are many reasons he is so valued but none more than his ability to pull like Dirt. He has very good mobility and speed. He will knock people on their acs on the second level. If Cody and Williams couldn't get the best of him...he will be very good in the NFL.

papillon
04-23-2010, 09:27 AM
Pouncey was no reach...some mocks had him going to Denver at 12. Pouncey by some scouts was said to be the most talented in the last decade. There are many reasons he is so valued but none more than his ability to pull like Dirt. He has very good mobility and speed. He will knock people on their acs on the second level. If Cody and Williams couldn't get the best of him...he will be very good in the NFL.

You're just saying that because your mock is still in tact. :twisted:

:tt2 :tt2

Pappy

pfelix73
04-23-2010, 09:28 AM
Pulling like Dirt did isn't all that difficult....It just depends on the play being called.

:tt1

papillon
04-23-2010, 09:46 AM
Pulling like Dirt did isn't all that difficult....It just depends on the play being called.

:tt1

But, pulling like Dirt did making the first block and then getting into the second level is difficult and no one has been close to being able to do that since Dirt left the NFL.

Pappy

flippy
04-23-2010, 09:56 AM
Good points. I'm on board with wanting him to succeed. Just feels high for a center.

Maybe Pouncey made Tebow.

And he'll make Mendy and our running game for the next 10 years.

I also worry about his wonderlich score. Aren't centers supposed to be smart?

Although I did read the Steelers think he's football smart and communicates well.

I do like his highlights. Seems like a mauler. And quick.

Captain Lemming
04-23-2010, 10:07 AM
Does Pouncey have to be as good as Dirt Dawson to be worth the #18 pick?

How good does he have to be?

I'm glad we like him and all, but it seems like we're typically drafting in a position where we can draft a great center and we're typically not picking at #18 where we had a chance at one of the premiere players at a premiere position.

Did we reach for need?

Did we overrate Pouncey because there were no other quality centers in this draft?

I like that the Steelers say he's so good.

But I still have mixed feelings about this pick at this point.

But if he's as good as Dirt, I could easily change my mind.

Is he that good?

No he does not need to be as good as Dirt.
Think about what that means. BEST EVER!

If I KNEW he would be would be that good, I would take him before ANYONE in the entire draft.

If he is going to be among the best, a future pro bowl caliber player, say a little better than Hartings it is a great pick.

If he winds up being as good as Dirt and he does have the same "strengths" that make for obvious comparisons, that is a big time bonus.

Shawn
04-23-2010, 10:15 AM
Pulling like Dirt did isn't all that difficult....It just depends on the play being called.

:tt1

But, pulling like Dirt did making the first block and then getting into the second level is difficult and no one has been close to being able to do that since Dirt left the NFL.

Pappy

No kidding...I'm surprised a man of Felix's stature and obvious football prowess missed that part. :lol:

Shawn
04-23-2010, 10:16 AM
Pouncey was no reach...some mocks had him going to Denver at 12. Pouncey by some scouts was said to be the most talented in the last decade. There are many reasons he is so valued but none more than his ability to pull like Dirt. He has very good mobility and speed. He will knock people on their acs on the second level. If Cody and Williams couldn't get the best of him...he will be very good in the NFL.

You're just saying that because your mock is still in tact. :twisted:

:tt2 :tt2

Pappy

So far so good. I don't think my second round pick will work out though. It appears Ghee is looking to be more of a third rounder. But, I would love to see Tate, Williams or Cody in the BnG.

Captain Lemming
04-23-2010, 10:35 AM
Good points. I'm on board with wanting him to succeed. Just feels high for a center.

Maybe Pouncey made Tebow.

And he'll make Mendy and our running game for the next 10 years.

I do like his highlights. Seems like a mauler. And quick.

High for a center?
People are wondering whether we take what might be the best center in a decade or the fourth best tackle in this draft.

As far as smarts?

Over the course of his last 1,793 offensive snaps, he allowed just one quarterback sack and was penalized only twice.

Quick feet AND smarts prevent sacks. He is no tackle facing speed rushers sure, but one sack in nearly two seasons is ridiculous.

pfelix73
04-23-2010, 10:51 AM
Pulling like Dirt did isn't all that difficult....It just depends on the play being called.

:tt1

But, pulling like Dirt did making the first block and then getting into the second level is difficult and no one has been close to being able to do that since Dirt left the NFL.

Pappy

No kidding...I'm surprised a man of Felix's stature and obvious football prowess missed that part. :lol:


Again- not diff. to do. Just have to execute it when the play is being called.

papillon
04-23-2010, 11:10 AM
While we're discussing Pouncey and his future with the Steelers I have a question.

Will there be any major issues in having a quarterback under center more often than not?

Pappy

pfelix73
04-23-2010, 11:12 AM
I would say no.

:tt1

BradshawsHairdresser
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
Picked at 1.18, it will be have to be a big disappointment if Pouncey isn't starting before the end of the season. I do think it will be at guard this year, rather than center (barring injuries to Fartwig).

ANPSTEEL
04-23-2010, 12:06 PM
Picked at 1.18, it will be have to be a big disappointment if Pouncey isn't starting before the end of the season. I do think it will be at guard this year, rather than center (barring injuries to Fartwig).

I was thinking about who would be at center last evening-

I believe Ben still makes the line calls- but with him out - I dont think Dixon or Leftwhich will- so that would leave it to the Center. That alone would seem to dictate that Pouncey is not going to start at C this season.

pfelix73
04-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Centers and some degree the OT's will make calls. All depends on the OL coach. The QB just has the authority to audible that call at the LOS. Only in passing situations though would a QB make a change.

:tt1

papillon
04-23-2010, 04:05 PM
Picked at 1.18, it will be have to be a big disappointment if Pouncey isn't starting before the end of the season. I do think it will be at guard this year, rather than center (barring injuries to Fartwig).

Tomlin and Colbert have already stated that he will begin at RG in an interview. He'll be in the starting lineup before Ben comes back from suspension.

Pappy

steelblood
04-23-2010, 05:22 PM
Pouncey was no reach...some mocks had him going to Denver at 12. Pouncey by some scouts was said to be the most talented in the last decade. There are many reasons he is so valued but none more than his ability to pull like Dirt. He has very good mobility and speed. He will knock people on their acs on the second level. If Cody and Williams couldn't get the best of him...he will be very good in the NFL.

I think he was a reach, but I hope I'm wrong.

birtikidis
04-23-2010, 06:15 PM
how anyone can say that a pulling center is "easy" to find is ridiculous. If it was so easy, you'd see them all over the place. there are very few centers who can pull well. and I don't think there are any in the NFL right now who can pull and seal off two guys (at both the first and second levels).
that statement was ridiculous.

pfelix73
04-23-2010, 07:30 PM
Dude, until you show me your resume, I'm done listening to you. G/C is virtually the same F'ing postion. They all can pull, some do if better than others, but that's what a G does. If you can't you get shoved to T. It's what your taught from day 1. If you were a OL on any level you would know that, but you don't.

Just....no further comments, I'm done here before I blow a gasket with you and you simply just aren't worth it.
:lol:

birtikidis
04-23-2010, 07:39 PM
you are a moron felix. G\C the same thing. you're an idiot. especially if you think you can snap a ball and pull as easily as a guard can. I've actually coached offensive line. I've worked with some damn good offensive line coaches (one of which was a 4 year starter at Florida - Mo Mitchel), and I've learned from some of the best O-Line coaches in college football (including Ole MIss offensive line coach Markuson). Ive been around people that actually KNOW something about football and I've learned from them. just because you have dirt in your sig doesn't mean you know ANYTHING about the offensive line.

pfelix73
04-23-2010, 07:55 PM
No, I'm not the moron- you are. Until you actually get out there and play, you don't know squat. Sure, a C hikes the damn ball, but the position is pretty much the same except the C makes the calls for the OL and the G don't. Some T's will make the call as well. But maybe you didn't see that in your coaching.

Since your such the expert, lets see what you know about zone blocking then.... Let me guess, you coached HS ball and thats your expertise.

LOL

birtikidis
04-23-2010, 08:11 PM
I think I'll take my information from guys that have coached and played at the highest levels. you're not among them.. so, your opinion is... like a fart in the wind.

pfelix73
04-23-2010, 08:22 PM
Whatever... Your seminars that you may have attended for a few days at a div. 1 school don't count in my book. You saw last night where I played. Whether you like it or not, I do know a thing or 2 about the OL. I'm sorry that I just never had the great opportunity to coach at the HS level.

I bow to your knowledge...... :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
04-24-2010, 01:32 AM
As the draft unfolded last night, there were players already chosen ahead of them that I think the Steelers were looking at. 3 that come to mind are Thomas, Iupati, and Graham. when the Eagles moved up to get Graham, I was a bit shocked. then Iupati went right ahead of us to SF.

Well, Pouncey should be the eventual C, but I think for the present time, he'll be given the RG spot because of his pulling abilities- who knows, he could wind up at G for a while. If he falters at all, then theres Essex-who will probably move back to OT, and Foster.

Urbik could be the odd man out. Such a shame for a 3rd round pick. I hope he can get his act together during training camp.

:tt1

Just imagine...now, in addition to calling an off-tackle play to the right with Kemo pulling to lead the play, Arians can now also call an off-tackle play to the left with Pouncey pulling to lead the play. Our run game playbook just doubled in size! :mrgreen:

flippy
04-24-2010, 08:40 AM
If we're gonna really commit to running the ball, i wonder if faneca would come back at a discount to finish his career in pittsburgh?

i'm just thinking you could possibly move pouncey to C faster and alan could help him out. and you go with a line of starks, faneca, pouncey, kemo, colon. i think those 5 could really move some bodies and we could really ride mendy for the first 4 games.

i still think hartwig is a major weak link in the middle.

NorthCoast
04-24-2010, 08:42 AM
A 'pulling center' is nice to have and all, but.... We desperately need a center that can control the nose tackle. Look at the 3-4 nose tackles out there today (and there are an increasing number of them) and I see beasts all around. We have to at least get a stalemate at that position. This pick makes complete sense if they are moving to a more run-oriented game as Rooney said.
I know very little about Pouncey, but if he can get a stalemate against Ngata and now Cody, then it was definitely an excellent pick.