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View Full Version : Just to clarify something amongst the hysteria..



Chadman
04-22-2010, 12:34 AM
Chadman has seen a number of Posters call Ben Roethlisberger a 'Once in 25 Year Talent'.

Just going over the figures & this simply doesn't add up.

For example- in the last 10 years alone there have been 5 QB's drafted that have gone on to win a SB or two. Not all of them 1st Rounders either- Tom Brady in the 6th 2000, Marc Bulger in the 6th 2000, Drew Brees in the 2nd 2001, Ben in the 1st in 2004, along with Eli in the 1st in 2004.

This doesn't include other QB's that were drafted that haven't won a SB, while still performing at a starter-level quality- guys like Pennington, Vick, Garrard, Palmer, Leftwich, Schaub, Rivers, Rodgers, Orton, Cutler, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford & Sanchez.

Add to this- not all of these 'unsuccessful' QB's had the supporting cast that Ben had.


You see? Many of you say Ben is "One in 25 years" type, but really- you base that on the gap between the Steelers 2 SB winning QB's. Had the Steelers been serious about upgrading the QB position under Cowher- he could have done it- numerous times. Instead we had a team built on defense & RB's. To think that Tomlin couldn't grab a "Franshise QB" within a year or two is, well, shortsighted.

Djfan
04-22-2010, 12:36 AM
I never said that, but he is a one in 25 year talent for the Steelers.

PSU_dropout43
04-22-2010, 01:07 AM
marc burger won a super bowl?

Chadman
04-22-2010, 01:12 AM
marc burger won a super bowl?

Can guarentee Marc Burger never won one...but you may be right about Bulger...Chadman's mistake...

Shawn
04-22-2010, 01:13 AM
I don't believe Ben is a once in a 25 year talent. But, it's obvious to me Chadman seriously underestimates the talent and importance of Ben to this team.

JTP53609
04-22-2010, 07:35 AM
Ben was a once in 25 year talent because he was the only qb drafted in the FIRST ROUND in 25 years... if we truly feel that there is a qb that is first round caliber and he is available to us in the top 15 when we have a need at qb, I have a feeling that they would succeed.

SteelAbility
04-22-2010, 07:45 AM
Chadman has seen a number of Posters call Ben Roethlisberger a 'Once in 25 Year Talent'.

Just going over the figures & this simply doesn't add up.

For example- in the last 10 years alone there have been 5 QB's drafted that have gone on to win a SB or two. Not all of them 1st Rounders either- Tom Brady in the 6th 2000, Marc Bulger in the 6th 2000, Drew Brees in the 2nd 2001, Ben in the 1st in 2004, along with Eli in the 1st in 2004.

This doesn't include other QB's that were drafted that haven't won a SB, while still performing at a starter-level quality- guys like Pennington, Vick, Garrard, Palmer, Leftwich, Schaub, Rivers, Rodgers, Orton, Cutler, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford & Sanchez.

Add to this- not all of these 'unsuccessful' QB's had the supporting cast that Ben had.


You see? Many of you say Ben is "One in 25 years" type, but really- you base that on the gap between the Steelers 2 SB winning QB's. Had the Steelers been serious about upgrading the QB position under Cowher- he could have done it- numerous times. Instead we had a team built on defense & RB's. To think that Tomlin couldn't grab a "Franshise QB" within a year or two is, well, shortsighted.

I say it because of what I see on the field. You don't see a guy whom you legitimately believe has a chance to win 4 or 5 SBs (if he keeps his act clean)? He's 8-2 in the playoffs. And before you say it was the D consider these playoff numbers ...

1. O averaged 26.5 ppg - AGAINST PLAYOFF QUALITY D (compare to Peyton Manning at 21.5)
2. O NEVER scored under 21 points in a playoff game (SB40 was the 21 points)
3. In the 2 playoff losses, the O scored 27 and 29 points.

Under pressure, this is your guy, right here. This kind of play under pressure at QB only comes along once every 25 years.

BURGH86STEEL
04-22-2010, 07:54 AM
Chadman has seen a number of Posters call Ben Roethlisberger a 'Once in 25 Year Talent'.

Just going over the figures & this simply doesn't add up.

For example- in the last 10 years alone there have been 5 QB's drafted that have gone on to win a SB or two. Not all of them 1st Rounders either- Tom Brady in the 6th 2000, Marc Bulger in the 6th 2000, Drew Brees in the 2nd 2001, Ben in the 1st in 2004, along with Eli in the 1st in 2004.

This doesn't include other QB's that were drafted that haven't won a SB, while still performing at a starter-level quality- guys like Pennington, Vick, Garrard, Palmer, Leftwich, Schaub, Rivers, Rodgers, Orton, Cutler, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford & Sanchez.

Add to this- not all of these 'unsuccessful' QB's had the supporting cast that Ben had.


You see? Many of you say Ben is "One in 25 years" type, but really- you base that on the gap between the Steelers 2 SB winning QB's. Had the Steelers been serious about upgrading the QB position under Cowher- he could have done it- numerous times. Instead we had a team built on defense & RB's. To think that Tomlin couldn't grab a "Franshise QB" within a year or two is, well, shortsighted.

No point in those fans following the Pittsburgh Rothlisbergers because the team is doomed without Ben.

proudpittsburgher
04-22-2010, 08:14 AM
I think most, including me, recognizes that it is altogether possible we could get someone to lessen the loss of Ben, but it is pretty much a crapshoot, and I really don't want my favorite team to get into the crapshooting business.


Tom Brady in the 6th 2000, Marc Bulger in the 6th 2000, Drew Brees in the 2nd 2001, Ben in the 1st in 2004, along with Eli in the 1st in 2004.
Let's face it, The Patriots didn't know nor think that Tom Brady would do what he has done over his career. Bulger caught lightning in a bottle, but didn't win anything of signifigance and i slooking for a job now. Brees is legit, but even his own coach in San Diego put him in and yanked him out of games. His career wasn't a given either. Eli is good, but is not on the level of Ben.


This doesn't include other QB's that were drafted that haven't won a SB, while still performing at a starter-level quality- guys like Pennington, Vick, Garrard, Palmer, Leftwich, Schaub, Rivers, Rodgers, Orton, Cutler, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford & Sanchez.
Honeslty, this list has two quarterbacks on it I would take knowing we would lose Ben. I know that isn't the point of this little exercise, but it is a fact. And I wouldn't want any of them over Ben.

The reason I don't want the team to trade Ben is two-fold . . . I see a guy who's only trouble is the fact he needs to grow up. He is not a predator to me, and certainly isn;t a lost cause personally. But we as Steelers fans went so many years without a franchise quarerback, so many hmm, this guy could take us to the super bowl, so many disappointments.

I can argue without reservation that I would take Ben on the field over Peyton and Brady. And I really don;t want to give that up because the guy likes to party off the field.

flippy
04-22-2010, 08:26 AM
I say once in a lifetime.

I've always said Ben is the Tiger Woods of the NFL.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-22-2010, 08:42 AM
I've always said Ben is the Tiger Woods of the NFL.

I guess you're talking about playing the sport and not extracurricular activities?

RuthlessBurgher
04-22-2010, 08:57 AM
I say once in a lifetime.

I've always said Ben is the Tiger Woods of the NFL.

And Goodell just smashed in the window of his SUV with a golf club. :wink:

Lebsteel
04-22-2010, 09:12 AM
I say once in a lifetime.

I've always said Ben is the Tiger Woods of the NFL.
Flippy, totally agree with Ben being comparable to Tiger in his off the field "play" but on the field, Ben is a very good QB, but in no way does he compare to what Tiger Woods has done on the golf course. We would be less of a team without a very good QB, but I am confident we could find another QB, maybe not as good as Ben, but good enough to lead us to many other Super Bowls. To borrow a phrase from Penn State, we are not the Pittsburgh Bens, WE ARE THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS!!

feltdizz
04-22-2010, 10:27 AM
Ben was a once in 25 year talent because he was the only qb drafted in the FIRST ROUND in 25 years... if we truly feel that there is a qb that is first round caliber and he is available to us in the top 15 when we have a need at qb, I have a feeling that they would succeed.

THIS!!!!

If Cowher wanted a good/above average QB he could have went out and got one. We tried to win in spite of our QB play for years. We went to the XFL to get Maddox for goodness sakes. Not knocking Tommy Gun but I think that pick up showed how little Cowher cared about the QB position.

We treated the QB position like Philly treated the WR position when McNabb was the QB.

flippy
04-22-2010, 10:50 AM
I say once in a lifetime.

I've always said Ben is the Tiger Woods of the NFL.
Flippy, totally agree with Ben being comparable to Tiger in his off the field "play" but on the field, Ben is a very good QB, but in no way does he compare to what Tiger Woods has done on the golf course. We would be less of a team without a very good QB, but I am confident we could find another QB, maybe not as good as Ben, but good enough to lead us to many other Super Bowls. To borrow a phrase from Penn State, we are not the Pittsburgh Bens, WE ARE THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS!!

I've said it to refer to him on the field, the off the field stuff is just a weird coincidence.

Ben has a size and athleticism that's very rare for his position. He does things no one else at his position is capable of doing. And he's a finisher.

He like Lebron if Lebron could finish games like Michael Jordan.

Ben is a natural. No QB has come into the league and had success so fast and no one ever will.

He's dominant at what he does.

Just like Tiger.

ANPSTEEL
04-22-2010, 11:01 AM
I think some of you have been sniffing Ben's jock a little too much.

Trying to equate Ben & Tiger Woods???

Holy hyperbole batman.

Ben is a very good QB. He is a top 5 QB in todays NFL. Someday, he might be top 10 all time. This would require him making significant changes to how he plays- and continued success. (to explain this would take much longer- and is not the intent of this post)

Tiger Woods- Baring an incredible extraterrestrial abduction will be the best golfer of all time.
Even if he were to stop playing golf today, he'd still be the 2nd best golfer of all time.

I am not a Tiger Woods fan- but to suggest that Ben's abilities are- at this point on par with Wood's accomplishments and abilities- is absurd.

snarky
04-22-2010, 11:20 AM
Ben is elite. There is no way around that conclusion. Down by six with two minutes to go, there is not another QB in the league more likely to win the game. Manning and Brady have put up better numbers. But I don't think either of them matches up to Ben in terms of being able to just win a game in the clutch (Brady maybe).

I'm starting to think this trade talk was either a PR move or a way to signal to Ben and the rest of the team that they need to keep it together from here on.

But I also agree with Chadman, if they trade him there are other options that are out there which wouldn't leave us totally crippled. It might take a year or two to get back on track but you play the hand you are dealt.

proudpittsburgher
04-22-2010, 12:14 PM
I think some of you have been sniffing Ben's jock a little too much.

Trying to equate Ben & Tiger Woods???

Holy hyperbole batman.

Ben is a very good QB. He is a top 5 QB in todays NFL. Someday, he might be top 10 all time. This would require him making significant changes to how he plays- and continued success. (to explain this would take much longer- and is not the intent of this post)

Tiger Woods- Baring an incredible extraterrestrial abduction will be the best golfer of all time.
Even if he were to stop playing golf today, he'd still be the 2nd best golfer of all time.

I am not a Tiger Woods fan- but to suggest that Ben's abilities are- at this point on par with Wood's accomplishments and abilities- is absurd.


I'll start off by saying I think you are right. :lol: That being said. . .

Steelers down 6 from their own 20 with 1:30 remaining . . . I like my chances with Ben.

Tiger trailes by two strokes going into the final round of a tournament. History shows, he ain't no comeback kid. And by history shows, I mean a win has never come to him in this situation. He has never come behind.

Ipso fact, Ben is better than Tiger Woods. :stirpot :moon :o

ANPSTEEL
04-22-2010, 12:30 PM
I think some of you have been sniffing Ben's jock a little too much.

Trying to equate Ben & Tiger Woods???

Holy hyperbole batman.

Ben is a very good QB. He is a top 5 QB in todays NFL. Someday, he might be top 10 all time. This would require him making significant changes to how he plays- and continued success. (to explain this would take much longer- and is not the intent of this post)

Tiger Woods- Baring an incredible extraterrestrial abduction will be the best golfer of all time.
Even if he were to stop playing golf today, he'd still be the 2nd best golfer of all time.

I am not a Tiger Woods fan- but to suggest that Ben's abilities are- at this point on par with Wood's accomplishments and abilities- is absurd.


I'll start off by saying I think you are right. :lol: That being said. . .

Steelers down 6 from their own 20 with 1:30 remaining . . . I like my chances with Ben.

Tiger trailes by two strokes going into the final round of a tournament. History shows, he ain't no comeback kid. And by history shows, I mean a win has never come to him in this situation. He has never come behind.

Ipso fact, Ben is better than Tiger Woods. :stirpot :moon :o

ipso facto my :moon

:lol: :lol:

anyway-

fair enough.

that superbowl come from behind victory will go down as one of the most impressive drives ever- for both the QB and the WR.

In respect to come from behind victories in golf-

well, the obvious components of that would be-
- how far back are you
- how many other golfers are ahead of you
- what do you shoot
- and most important, do all of the people ahead of you shoot like crap on the final day

Cinderella story.
Cinderella boy.
Here at Augusta Georgia...

JTP53609
04-22-2010, 12:32 PM
I think some of you have been sniffing Ben's jock a little too much.

Trying to equate Ben & Tiger Woods???

Holy hyperbole batman.

Ben is a very good QB. He is a top 5 QB in todays NFL. Someday, he might be top 10 all time. This would require him making significant changes to how he plays- and continued success. (to explain this would take much longer- and is not the intent of this post)

Tiger Woods- Baring an incredible extraterrestrial abduction will be the best golfer of all time.
Even if he were to stop playing golf today, he'd still be the 2nd best golfer of all time.

I am not a Tiger Woods fan- but to suggest that Ben's abilities are- at this point on par with Wood's accomplishments and abilities- is absurd.


I'll start off by saying I think you are right. :lol: That being said. . .

Steelers down 6 from their own 20 with 1:30 remaining . . . I like my chances with Ben.

Tiger trailes by two strokes going into the final round of a tournament. History shows, he ain't no comeback kid. And by history shows, I mean a win has never come to him in this situation. He has never come behind.

Ipso fact, Ben is better than Tiger Woods. :stirpot :moon :o

Tiger likes to come from behind :Boobs

feltdizz
04-22-2010, 12:36 PM
Tiger Woods is like Cowher with an 11 point lead... :stirpot

Ben is great but he hasn't transformed the game like Tiger... Golf went from old white guys to a young mans sport overnight. Way too many players on a football team to compare Ben to a guy in a one man sport.

proudpittsburgher
04-22-2010, 12:41 PM
In respect to come from behind victories in golf-

well, the obvious components of that would be-
- how far back are you
- how many other golfers are ahead of you
- what do you shoot
- and most important, do all of the people ahead of you shoot like crap on the final day

I am fairly certain that Tiger has never come from behind in the final round of a tounament where he was trailing by any number of strokes. Either way, bad comparison. :)

SteelAbility
04-22-2010, 12:54 PM
Ben and Tiger are actually quite comparable in terms of play under pressure. I think that's what Flippy means.

Football/Golf = Apples/Oranges.

In golf only YOU can pull you down (barring events like the Ryder Cup). In football, there are 21 others on your team that can pull you down. If Tiger were part of a golf team, where the aggregate team score is what counted, we would see how good he is, it just wouldn't be nearly as emphasized because it gets distributed to the team.

flippy
04-22-2010, 01:19 PM
Ben and Tiger are actually quite comparable in terms of play under pressure. I think that's what Flippy means.

Football/Golf = Apples/Oranges.

In golf only YOU can pull you down (barring events like the Ryder Cup). In football, there are 21 others on your team that can pull you down. If Tiger were part of a golf team, where the aggregate team score is what counted, we would see how good he is, it just wouldn't be nearly as emphasized because it gets distributed to the team.

exactly, if every player played their position as well as ben plays his, the steelers would never lose. ever.

tiger loses to mickelson and others, so ben is actually better imho.