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View Full Version : Maybe Ben isn't as valuable as we think he is...



feltdizz
04-21-2010, 08:59 PM
Based on the low interest Ben is receiving in the trade rumors could we be over estimating Ben's worth? Ben is great to us but EVERY other teams fan always say he stinks and it's our defense and team talent that make him look good.

Now we all know how good Ben is in the clutch... but there are also a lot of times when I'm screaming throw the ball when he is pump faking and taking sacks. There are times when the offense looks terrible...

My point is most of the time we bitch and moan about the lack of respect Ben gets as an elite QB...
So why are so many people shocked we aren't getting Peyton or Brees value?

fezziwig
04-21-2010, 09:01 PM
Ben would get a kings ransom. When tomorrow will all the rumors end ? After what high draft pick can we stop wondering if a Ben deal will be made ?

feltdizz
04-21-2010, 09:12 PM
Ben would get a kings ransom. When tomorrow will all the rumors end ? After what high draft pick can we stop wondering if a Ben deal will be made ?

our SB MVP got us a 5th rounder... and no one thought Holmes was trade bait before his weed bust.

fezziwig
04-21-2010, 09:15 PM
What is more difficult to come by, a franchise quaterback or a really good wide receiver ?

skyhawk
04-21-2010, 09:32 PM
What is more difficult to come by, a franchise quaterback or a really good wide receiver ?

That's why the Steelers win and the other franchises don't. They would rather be "right" rather than win.

Plus no one likes the Steelers outside the Steeler nation.

fezziwig
04-21-2010, 09:37 PM
What is more difficult to come by, a franchise quaterback or a really good wide receiver ?

That's why the Steelers win and the other franchises don't. They would rather be "right" rather than win.

Plus no one likes the Steelers outside the Steeler nation.


Who would rather be right ? The Steelers or other teams ?

WoodleyofTroy
04-21-2010, 09:41 PM
This is weird.

fezziwig
04-21-2010, 09:43 PM
This is weird.



Why

papillon
04-21-2010, 09:47 PM
Based on the low interest Ben is receiving in the trade rumors could we be over estimating Ben's worth? Ben is great to us but EVERY other teams fan always say he stinks and it's our defense and team talent that make him look good.

Now we all know how good Ben is in the clutch... but there are also a lot of times when I'm screaming throw the ball when he is pump faking and taking sacks. There are times when the offense looks terrible...

My point is most of the time we bitch and moan about the lack of respect Ben gets as an elite QB...
So why are so many people shocked we aren't getting Peyton or Brees value?

Ben is as valuable as we believe he is and he adds 2 wins to any team he goes to and gives them a chance to compete. If Ben is traded for anything less than 2-firsts and a proven player someone is getting a steal, like the Jets did. The Steelers aren't getting the offers because of the situation. The Steelers would easily be offered Seattle's 2 firsts this year and possibly one next year under normal circumstances.

The Rooneys are behaving irrationally if you ask me on both accounts, Santonio and Ben. They've never done anything like this before; I'm not sure why they are starting this righteous stuff now.

This is hypocritical to me, Harrison hit his child's mother and threatened her, Spaeth p1sses in public, Reed squares up with a cop defending Spaeth, Ernie Holmes shot at a helicopter with a rifle, Greg Lloyd wasn't a choir boy away from the field and none of these players were even remotely considered in a trade.

Unless Goodell has pictures of Art II in compromising positions I'm not sure why all the support for the commish.

Pappy

Herewegosteelers!
04-21-2010, 10:00 PM
It's all Obama's fault! If he wouldn't have made Rooney an ambassador to Ireland, the Steelers wouldn't have traded Santonio or thought about trading Ben because they want to look righteous to Obama! I was being sarcastic but thinking about it, this might have something to do with it, even if a small percentage.. :?

TallyStiller
04-21-2010, 10:02 PM
Difference here is the Jets got ONE YEAR of 'Stonio's services... 12 games actually, with exclusive negotiating rights to overpay him ridiculously, based on his likely belief that he's worth Brandon Marshall money.

Ben, on the other hand, is a franchise QB signed for 5 years to a contract that was a hometown discount now being shopped because the romance has soured.

In short, trading Holmes for a 5 was not unreasonable. Ben should bring in a WHOLE lot more, based on peripherals.

steelblood
04-21-2010, 10:05 PM
Pap,

I tend to agree with you. However, we are not in the room with the Rooneys, Tomlin and Ben or Tone. We don't know how the organization came to a decision on Tone or Ben (if they indeed have). Just like we can't know what Ben did or didn't do, we can't know what else Ben and Tone have done and how they have interacted with coaches and management. I'm trying not to be too emotional right now because we just don't have enough information to judge.

I still think Ben is going nowhere. But, if he does, I think I'll have to trust that the Rooneys made this decision in collaboration with Colbert and Tomlin. And, that they did so because they felt that Ben gave them the impression that he was not really sorry and/or that he just won't change.

Steelblood

skyhawk
04-21-2010, 10:08 PM
What is more difficult to come by, a franchise quaterback or a really good wide receiver ?

That's why the Steelers win and the other franchises don't. They would rather be "right" rather than win.

Plus no one likes the Steelers outside the Steeler nation.


Who would rather be right ? The Steelers or other teams ?

Sorry, they being the other teams. Can always find reasons to not take Ben when he is a clear winner and leader on the field.

Shawn
04-21-2010, 10:11 PM
Dizz just when you are starting to seem reasonable you come up with something like this. Ben is worth more than 3 first round draft picks. He is what every team dreams about from a talent stand point. He is the reason we have two more Super Bowl rings.

As for interest around the league...how do you know what the interest level is? You have many reports of many different things...from it's all hogwash...to the Seahawks willing to give up three firsts.

papillon
04-21-2010, 10:14 PM
Pap,

I tend to agree with you. However, we are not in the room with the Rooneys, Tomlin and Ben or Tone. We don't know how the organization came to a decision on Tone or Ben (if they indeed have). Just like we can't know what Ben did or didn't do, we can't know what else Ben and Tone have done and how they have interacted with coaches and management. I'm trying not to be too emotional right now because we just don't have enough information to judge.

I still think Ben is going nowhere. But, if he does, I think I'll have to trust that the Rooneys made this decision in collaboration with Colbert and Tomlin. And, that they did so because they felt that Ben gave them the impression that he was not really sorry and/or that he just won't change.

Steelblood

Not being there definitely makes it difficult to determine the reasoning. From the outside looking at the past and the current situation nothing is making sense. The Steelers have had issues with players before for worse conduct than Ben's (IMO) and they have not been this vituperative towards those players. There seems to be a real anger directed at Ben from the team.

Now, maybe he's still being an arrogant jack@ss, well, that would p1ss me off too if I were in their shoes. Without any real information we can only speculate and analyze and this just isn't passing the smell test with me. Something may have been brewuing prior to the incident and this was simply the icing on the cake.

Pappy

feltdizz
04-21-2010, 10:16 PM
What Spaeth and Reed did was stupid but it wasn't a stop the press trade them now type scenario. Any FG kicker who squares up with a cop is the butt of jokes not trade bait.

Harrison had one incident and even if he was to get in some more trouble he s a LB and they are seen as loose cannons anyway. He would be fined or suspended for a game but for goodness sakes you guys call him a silverback gorilla for goodness sakes.

Now all the other incidents involved Tagliabu and we need to remember there was a time when the NBA and Baseball overshadowed the NFL. Now that the NFL is the #1 sport it will get the most attention and scrutiny.

SteelAbility
04-21-2010, 10:18 PM
Based on the low interest Ben is receiving in the trade rumors could we be over estimating Ben's worth? Ben is great to us but EVERY other teams fan always say he stinks and it's our defense and team talent that make him look good.

Now we all know how good Ben is in the clutch... but there are also a lot of times when I'm screaming throw the ball when he is pump faking and taking sacks. There are times when the offense looks terrible...

My point is most of the time we bitch and moan about the lack of respect Ben gets as an elite QB...
So why are so many people shocked we aren't getting Peyton or Brees value?

Uh ... jealousy baby! Outside of the IND, NO, NE, and maybe SD, the majority of those fans secretly would like to get Ben ...

- Winningest record in his 1st 5 seasons
- #6 or #7 in career YPA
- We had better Ds before Ben and couldn't win in the 90s and early 2000s
- 26.5 PPG in the playoffs
- 8-2 in the playoffs
- NEVER scored under 21 points in a playoff game
- In the two playoff losses, scored 27 and 29 points respectively
- Of course, two-time SB winner
- 19? or so come-from-behind game-winning drives

Yeah, he sucks. No way they would want that. :roll:

ikestops85
04-21-2010, 10:28 PM
What Spaeth and Reed did was stupid but it wasn't a stop the press trade them now type scenario. Any FG kicker who squares up with a cop is the butt of jokes not trade bait.

Harrison had one incident and even if he was to get in some more trouble he s a LB and they are seen as loose cannons anyway. He would be fined or suspended for a game but for goodness sakes you guys call him a silverback gorilla for goodness sakes.

Now all the other incidents involved Tagliabu and we need to remember there was a time when the NBA and Baseball overshadowed the NFL. Now that the NFL is the #1 sport it will get the most attention and scrutiny.

So what you are saying is if Ben were a kicker or a linebacker none of this would be happening :wft

steelblood
04-21-2010, 10:38 PM
Based on the low interest Ben is receiving in the trade rumors could we be over estimating Ben's worth? Ben is great to us but EVERY other teams fan always say he stinks and it's our defense and team talent that make him look good.

Now we all know how good Ben is in the clutch... but there are also a lot of times when I'm screaming throw the ball when he is pump faking and taking sacks. There are times when the offense looks terrible...

My point is most of the time we bitch and moan about the lack of respect Ben gets as an elite QB...
So why are so many people shocked we aren't getting Peyton or Brees value?

Ben is as valuable as we believe he is and he adds 2 wins to any team he goes to and gives them a chance to compete. If Ben is traded for anything less than 2-firsts and a proven player someone is getting a steal, like the Jets did. The Steelers aren't getting the offers because of the situation. The Steelers would easily be offered Seattle's 2 firsts this year and possibly one next year under normal circumstances.

The Rooneys are behaving irrationally if you ask me on both accounts, Santonio and Ben. They've never done anything like this before; I'm not sure why they are starting this righteous stuff now.

This is hypocritical to me, Harrison hit his child's mother and threatened her, Spaeth p1sses in public, Reed squares up with a cop defending Spaeth, Ernie Holmes shot at a helicopter with a rifle, Greg Lloyd wasn't a choir boy away from the field and none of these players were even remotely considered in a trade.

Unless Goodell has pictures of Art II in compromising positions I'm not sure why all the support for the commish.

Pappy

Unfortunately, Ben may be costing us a few games this season. Hopefully it won't happen again.

feltdizz
04-21-2010, 10:39 PM
Maybe it is pure jealousy but I hear it all the time... and let's be honest, even with all the accomplshments Ben is never mentioned in the elite convo by most analyst or ESPN polls.

Ben was the last one in the room on draft day too... most fans think Ben is the beneficiary of the best franchise and D. How many other teams are top 5 on D damn near every year for the last 20 years?

Shawn
04-21-2010, 10:48 PM
Pap,

I tend to agree with you. However, we are not in the room with the Rooneys, Tomlin and Ben or Tone. We don't know how the organization came to a decision on Tone or Ben (if they indeed have). Just like we can't know what Ben did or didn't do, we can't know what else Ben and Tone have done and how they have interacted with coaches and management. I'm trying not to be too emotional right now because we just don't have enough information to judge.

I still think Ben is going nowhere. But, if he does, I think I'll have to trust that the Rooneys made this decision in collaboration with Colbert and Tomlin. And, that they did so because they felt that Ben gave them the impression that he was not really sorry and/or that he just won't change.

Steelblood

Not being there definitely makes it difficult to determine the reasoning. From the outside looking at the past and the current situation nothing is making sense. The Steelers have had issues with players before for worse conduct than Ben's (IMO) and they have not been this vituperative towards those players. There seems to be a real anger directed at Ben from the team.

Now, maybe he's still being an arrogant jack@ss, well, that would p1ss me off too if I were in their shoes. Without any real information we can only speculate and analyze and this just isn't passing the smell test with me. Something may have been brewuing prior to the incident and this was simply the icing on the cake.

Pappy

I can tell you the reasoning...alcohol. It sounds like he tried to do the right thing...body guards...police officers...signing autographs etc. There was notes about this girl throwing herself at him all night and him showing very little interest. Then comes the alcohol. By the end of the night he's likely turning her inside out in a public restroom. He got drunk starting acting like an ass and did something really stupid.

Shawn
04-21-2010, 10:50 PM
Maybe it is pure jealousy but I hear it all the time... and let's be honest, even with all the accomplshments Ben is never mentioned in the elite convo by most analyst or ESPN polls.

Ben was the last one in the room on draft day too... most fans think Ben is the beneficiary of the best franchise and D. How many other teams are top 5 on D damn near every year for the last 20 years?

Because most analysts don't break down the numbers. They look at total yards and Oreo commercials. By the break down...Ben is one of the greatest to ever play the game in the post season. They don't get much better than Ben in the clutch.

feltdizz
04-21-2010, 10:53 PM
What Spaeth and Reed did was stupid but it wasn't a stop the press trade them now type scenario. Any FG kicker who squares up with a cop is the butt of jokes not trade bait.

Harrison had one incident and even if he was to get in some more trouble he s a LB and they are seen as loose cannons anyway. He would be fined or suspended for a game but for goodness sakes you guys call him a silverback gorilla for goodness sakes.

Now all the other incidents involved Tagliabu and we need to remember there was a time when the NBA and Baseball overshadowed the NFL. Now that the NFL is the #1 sport it will get the most attention and scrutiny.

So what you are saying is if Ben were a kicker or a linebacker none of this would be happening :wft

:HeadBanger I said what I typed... Why the hell are you turning Ben into a kicker?



The Colts player was accused of sexual assault in a hotel room before the AFC championship game and if it went reported on here I wouldn't have known about it. If Ben was a kicker or a LB there would be 2 threads on this and the board wouldn't be melting.

feltdizz
04-21-2010, 11:01 PM
Maybe it is pure jealousy but I hear it all the time... and let's be honest, even with all the accomplshments Ben is never mentioned in the elite convo by most analyst or ESPN polls.

Ben was the last one in the room on draft day too... most fans think Ben is the beneficiary of the best franchise and D. How many other teams are top 5 on D damn near every year for the last 20 years?

Because most analysts don't break down the numbers. They look at total yards and Oreo commercials. By the break down...Ben is one of the greatest to ever play the game in the post season. They don't get much better than Ben in the clutch.

We know that... and they know Ben's stats and his accomplishments too...
I just think they give our team more credit then Ben.

I do agree with your drunk statement. I don't know Ben but we all know a few people who "change" when they cross their intoxication line or drink a certain type of liqour.

SteelAbility
04-22-2010, 07:51 AM
Maybe it is pure jealousy but I hear it all the time... and let's be honest, even with all the accomplshments Ben is never mentioned in the elite convo by most analyst or ESPN polls.

Ben was the last one in the room on draft day too... most fans think Ben is the beneficiary of the best franchise and D. How many other teams are top 5 on D damn near every year for the last 20 years?

Because most analysts don't break down the numbers. They look at total yards and Oreo commercials. By the break down...Ben is one of the greatest to ever play the game in the post season. They don't get much better than Ben in the clutch.

EXACTLY. Ben is able to break down playoff quality D under pressure. Even his two playoff losses came with 27 and 29 points scored. This kind of QB play comes along only very rarely.