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pfelix73
04-19-2010, 11:44 PM
Goodell states that Ben broke the NFL's personal conduct policy- I say prove it!

I'd like to see a great big fat lawsuit slapped on Goodell and the NFL.

Just my opinion though.
:2c
:stirpot

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Goodell states that Ben broke the NFL's personal conduct policy- I say prove it!

I'd like to see a great big fat lawsuit slapped on Goodell and his cronies......

Just my opinion though.
:2c
:stirpot

Isn't bringing bad PR and ill-repute to the NFL itself a violation of the policy? It's not a democracy, it's a privately held organization, they can write whatever rules they want.

pfelix73
04-19-2010, 11:54 PM
They can write policies all they want, BUT they also have to be lawful..I'm not an attorney, but I am an employer. There is NO WAY I would think of suspending an employee without pay in fear of a lawsuit. I was always told that the only way I could withhold pay from an employee is if there is a court order. Garnishments, child support, for example.

Just because a corporation publishes 'policies' doesn't make them lawful. Remembered from College Bus. Law classes.

:tt1

Now, a suspension with pay, that might be a different matter....But that's not what's coming down from the league.

brothervad
04-20-2010, 02:42 AM
pfelix,

three words...

Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Whether you like it or not the Players Union agreed to this in the last CBA.

And there are plenty of companies out there that have Morals clauses in their contracts.

You don't need to break the law to get fired...

The NFL's product is jeopardized (in their opinion not mine) when players act a certain way that gives the NFL a bad name.

A VP get's drunk at a public function and makes an A$$ of himself can get fired....he didn't break any law but he hurt the company's brand name.

It happens more often than you think...

just my .02 as well

brothervad

SteelAbility
04-20-2010, 06:57 AM
Goodell states that Ben broke the NFL's personal conduct policy- I say prove it!

I'd like to see a great big fat lawsuit slapped on Goodell and the NFL.

Just my opinion though.
:2c
:stirpot

Ok. Ben can go to court and let more juicy details of that fateful evening come out as the NFL defends itself. :wink:

Oviedo
04-20-2010, 07:32 AM
pfelix,

three words...

Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Whether you like it or not the Players Union agreed to this in the last CBA.

And there are plenty of companies out there that have Morals clauses in their contracts.

You don't need to break the law to get fired...

The NFL's product is jeopardized (in their opinion not mine) when players act a certain way that gives the NFL a bad name.

A VP get's drunk at a public function and makes an A$$ of himself can get fired....he didn't break any law but he hurt the company's brand name.

It happens more often than you think...

just my .02 as well

brothervad

Exactly. In my company a loot of activities that are not illegal can get you terminated. In the military there are alot of rules that do not break laws that will get you administrative, non-judicial punishment. In neither case is anyone being granted the privilege of making millions of dollars.

Here's an idea. Instead of arguing about "not breaking the law" how about simply not engaging in questionable conduct.

BURGH86STEEL
04-20-2010, 07:42 AM
They can write policies all they want, BUT they also have to be lawful..I'm not an attorney, but I am an employer. There is NO WAY I would think of suspending an employee without pay in fear of a lawsuit. I was always told that the only way I could withhold pay from an employee is if there is a court order. Garnishments, child support, for example.

Just because a corporation publishes 'policies' doesn't make them lawful. Remembered from College Bus. Law classes.

:tt1

Now, a suspension with pay, that might be a different matter....But that's not what's coming down from the league.

Workers can be suspended without pay if they break rules or policies within a lot of companies. Usually, there are a series of steps that take place. Warning, suspension, and then termination is the usual series of events.

I am fairly certain that the organization was upset because they gave Ben a warning or advice after the first accusation. I am sure Holmes had the same opportunity. There are other players that probably had warnings for behavior off the field.

pfelix73
04-20-2010, 09:29 AM
I think the point is being missed here- to me anyway. People might get suspended at a job but they never fight it, so it goes as if the company won. Ben will not fight this as well. He'll toe the company line. Your drunk VP example- same thing. But if that drunk VP hired an attorney..... anything goes.....

As far as a lawsuit being brought- notice I didn't say Ben in particular, although he could bring one if so chooses- Some folks just assumed I was referring to Ben- No I was referring to the union in this case. Or with a different player in another situation- and we all know there will be others. Personally, I could see someone like TO doing this, with the way his personality is. IMO.

:tt1

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-20-2010, 09:43 AM
Many of our intelligent Steeler Brothers are correct. It was collectively bargained. The union represents the players as one voice so when it is agreed on...Every player agrees. It can't be disputed if you are emplyed by the league. As far as the incident(s) involved being a violation...It is exactly what the verbage of the agreement set forth. The Commish is completely within his right to suspend. However, Ben is also completely withing his right to appeal. I just don't see Ben causes waves unless 5+ games are handed out.

JAR
04-20-2010, 09:47 AM
Goodell states that Ben broke the NFL's personal conduct policy- I say prove it!

I'd like to see a great big fat lawsuit slapped on Goodell and his cronies......

Just my opinion though.
:2c
:stirpot

Isn't bringing bad PR and ill-repute to the NFL itself a violation of the policy? It's not a democracy, it's a privately held organization, they can write whatever rules they want.

The bad PR is because of the Tabloid Media reporting only the story of drunken sorority sisters, had they not, no bad PR.

SteelAbility
04-20-2010, 10:01 AM
Goodell states that Ben broke the NFL's personal conduct policy- I say prove it!

I'd like to see a great big fat lawsuit slapped on Goodell and his cronies......

Just my opinion though.
:2c
:stirpot

Isn't bringing bad PR and ill-repute to the NFL itself a violation of the policy? It's not a democracy, it's a privately held organization, they can write whatever rules they want.

The bad PR is because of the Tabloid Media reporting only the story of drunken sorority sisters, had they not, no bad PR.

Vultures go after dead carcasses. But those who leave dead carcasses (whether on-purpose, or by negligence, or by lack of insight or some combination of the above) are responsible for attracting the vultures.

feltdizz
04-20-2010, 10:08 AM
On another note I did read a few comments in random places with other fans complimenting Steeler Nation for being upset and not making excuses for Ben's behavior.

I really think those who :HeadBanger at the conduct policy or the suspension are doing it merely from a win at all cost mentality. We all know WHY a suspension is forthcoming.. I guess the best we can hope for is enough evidence to warrant a small suspension and not a big one.

Anything over 4 games would be shocking.

SteelAbility
04-20-2010, 10:19 AM
On another note I did read a few comments in random places with other fans complimenting Steeler Nation for being upset and not making excuses for Ben's behavior.

I really think those who :HeadBanger at the conduct policy or the suspension are doing it merely from a win at all cost mentality. We all know WHY a suspension is forthcoming.. I guess the best we can hope for is enough evidence to warrant a small suspension and not a big one.

Anything over 4 games would be shocking.

All signs are pointing to a dodged bullet here. It's one thing to be cleared of charges because several necessary factors aren't in place. It's a whole different thing to be cleared despite several necessary factors being in place.

I do like the idea of 6-games with reduction incentives and a floor. This makes it somewhat interactive. Even if all of that stuff was made up and Ben is completely innocent of all accusations, Ben still acted in a risky manor. If nothing else, some of the incentives may effect some perspective change for Ben.

Lebsteel
04-20-2010, 10:20 AM
On another note I did read a few comments in random places with other fans complimenting Steeler Nation for being upset and not making excuses for Ben's behavior.

I really think those who :HeadBanger at the conduct policy or the suspension are doing it merely from a win at all cost mentality. We all know WHY a suspension is forthcoming.. I guess the best we can hope for is enough evidence to warrant a small suspension and not a big one.

Anything over 4 games would be shocking.
http://www.searchenginepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/ostrich-burying-head.jpg
Remind you of anyone?? :wink:

Lebsteel
04-20-2010, 10:25 AM
pfelix,

three words...

Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Whether you like it or not the Players Union agreed to this in the last CBA.

And there are plenty of companies out there that have Morals clauses in their contracts.

You don't need to break the law to get fired...

The NFL's product is jeopardized (in their opinion not mine) when players act a certain way that gives the NFL a bad name.

A VP get's drunk at a public function and makes an A$$ of himself can get fired....he didn't break any law but he hurt the company's brand name.

It happens more often than you think...

just my .02 as well

brothervad

Exactly. In my company a loot of activities that are not illegal can get you terminated. In the military there are alot of rules that do not break laws that will get you administrative, non-judicial punishment. In neither case is anyone being granted the privilege of making millions of dollars.

Here's an idea. Instead of arguing about "not breaking the law" how about simply not engaging in questionable conduct.

Ah, yes, the good ole UCMJ...Article 15. I've seen a few people become very familiar with that article...

pfelix73
04-20-2010, 10:27 AM
When was the current CBA written and agreed to? Anyone ever read it? Might just be me, but did we have this many suspensions, etc. when Goodell's predecessor was in office?

:tt1

pfelix73
04-20-2010, 10:41 AM
"Win at all costs" Yea, the whole reason why we play the season is to see who will win a trophy at the end of the year....

Franchise QB out for 4+ games can kiss that goal good bye- or seriously hurt the chances anyways.

Glad I didn't buy tickets yet to any home games. I won't pick any with the 2nd stringer in at those ticket prices...

frankthetank1
04-20-2010, 10:55 AM
"Win at all costs" Yea, the whole reason why we play the season is to see who will win a trophy at the end of the year....

Franchise QB out for 4+ games can kiss that goal good bye- or seriously hurt the chances anyways.

Glad I didn't buy tickets yet to any home games. I won't pick any with the 2nd stringer in at those ticket prices...

im glad most steeler fans dont think that way. if they did there would be a lot of empty seats at heinz the first couple of games. i could care less who is playing qb when i make my trip to the burgh for a game. the steelers are the steelers with or without ben

JAR
04-20-2010, 10:55 AM
If Goodell suspends Ben, it's going to open a huge can of worms. Let's see, Tom Brady assaulted me, Peyton Manning assaulted me, etc, etc. What a way to get your rivals QB on the bench for a few games.

frankthetank1
04-20-2010, 10:59 AM
If Goodell suspends Ben, it's going to open a huge can of worms. Let's see, Tom Brady assaulted me, Peyton Manning assaulted me, etc, etc. What a way to get your rivals QB on the bench for a few games.

there is no way ben wont be suspended. i know ben was only accused but the details of the story are pretty horrific.

pfelix73
04-20-2010, 11:05 AM
"Win at all costs" Yea, the whole reason why we play the season is to see who will win a trophy at the end of the year....

Franchise QB out for 4+ games can kiss that goal good bye- or seriously hurt the chances anyways.

Glad I didn't buy tickets yet to any home games. I won't pick any with the 2nd stringer in at those ticket prices...

im glad most steeler fans dont think that way. if they did there would be a lot of empty seats at heinz the first couple of games. i could care less who is playing qb when i make my trip to the burgh for a game. the steelers are the steelers with or without ben


Not sure if you can prove that statement there, but I used to think that way until the prices started to increase along with everything else. Getting to the point where I just stay home for all of them. Used to go to 5 a year, now down to 1 or 2. I saw a lot of empty seats at those 2 games last year too. Tell ya what, if I get some tix for a game Ben doesn't start in 2010, I'll sell em to ya cheap.

:tt1

JAR
04-20-2010, 11:06 AM
If Goodell suspends Ben, it's going to open a huge can of worms. Let's see, Tom Brady assaulted me, Peyton Manning assaulted me, etc, etc. What a way to get your rivals QB on the bench for a few games.

there is no way ben wont be suspended. i know ben was only accused but the details of the story are pretty horrific.

Only if you read the sorority sister's stories and I wouldn't call those "horrific"

ikestops85
04-20-2010, 11:58 AM
If Goodell suspends Ben, it's going to open a huge can of worms. Let's see, Tom Brady assaulted me, Peyton Manning assaulted me, etc, etc. What a way to get your rivals QB on the bench for a few games.

there is no way ben wont be suspended. i know ben was only accused but the details of the story are pretty horrific.

Only read the sorority sister's stories and I wouldn't call those "horrific"

Yes, please elaborate on these "pretty horrific" stories. I've only heard of conduct that goes on in bars in just about every city in this country on a weekly basis. Guys looking to get some ... girls DTF ... alcohol involved ... hooking up in the bathroom. I know, these people aren't NFL players. Well, I live in the DC area so I know that some of them are executives who work in your government.

SteelAbility
04-20-2010, 12:35 PM
If Goodell suspends Ben, it's going to open a huge can of worms. Let's see, Tom Brady assaulted me, Peyton Manning assaulted me, etc, etc. What a way to get your rivals QB on the bench for a few games.

there is no way ben wont be suspended. i know ben was only accused but the details of the story are pretty horrific.

Only read the sorority sister's stories and I wouldn't call those "horrific"

The potential playing with the facts has gone both ways. The two first things that should have been done ...

1. Secure the alleged crime scene and prevent any tampering until further investigation.
2. Seize the videotapes as soon as possible.

This is standard procedure for a crime investigation. Neither was followed.

The night club's video tapes were overwritten (apparently at some point after 2:30 am, when the accusation was first brought to police attention). The next morning the janitor cleaned up the bathroom with Clorox without being told anything by anyone. These are both facts that are not up for debate. Now, you tell me, how could the investigation be clean and complete with both of these on the table?

JAR
04-20-2010, 12:43 PM
If Goodell suspends Ben, it's going to open a huge can of worms. Let's see, Tom Brady assaulted me, Peyton Manning assaulted me, etc, etc. What a way to get your rivals QB on the bench for a few games.

there is no way ben wont be suspended. i know ben was only accused but the details of the story are pretty horrific.

Only read the sorority sister's stories and I wouldn't call those "horrific"

The potential playing with the facts has gone both ways. The two first things that should have been done ...

1. Secure the alleged crime scene and prevent any tampering until further investigation.
2. Seize the videotapes as soon as possible.

This is standard procedure for a crime investigation. Neither was followed.

The night club's video tapes were overwritten (apparently at some point after 2:30 am, when the accusation was first brought to police attention). The next morning the janitor cleaned up the bathroom with Clorox without being told anything by anyone. These are both facts that are not up for debate. Now, you tell me, how could the investigation be clean and complete with both of these on the table?

The cameras weren't in the area of the alleged offense anyway, what good would they have been?

pfelix73
04-20-2010, 12:50 PM
They (NFL) are going to make an example out of him.

:tt1

SteelAbility
04-20-2010, 02:02 PM
If Goodell suspends Ben, it's going to open a huge can of worms. Let's see, Tom Brady assaulted me, Peyton Manning assaulted me, etc, etc. What a way to get your rivals QB on the bench for a few games.

there is no way ben wont be suspended. i know ben was only accused but the details of the story are pretty horrific.

Only read the sorority sister's stories and I wouldn't call those "horrific"

The potential playing with the facts has gone both ways. The two first things that should have been done ...

1. Secure the alleged crime scene and prevent any tampering until further investigation.
2. Seize the videotapes as soon as possible.

This is standard procedure for a crime investigation. Neither was followed.

The night club's video tapes were overwritten (apparently at some point after 2:30 am, when the accusation was first brought to police attention). The next morning the janitor cleaned up the bathroom with Clorox without being told anything by anyone. These are both facts that are not up for debate. Now, you tell me, how could the investigation be clean and complete with both of these on the table?

The cameras weren't in the area of the alleged offense anyway, what good would they have been?

They could help establish the validity or deceitfulness of various witnesses. Witness are often asked general questions to establish some context/framework for the deeper questions.