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steelfanforlife
04-19-2010, 01:49 PM
The most important and glaring fact in this case is that there is NO SEMEN, NO COMPARABLE DNA of any kind. Lets review the actual facts.

-Big Ben said he didnít have sex with the accuser and the accuser said he had unprotected sex with her without her concent.
-Immediately after the even supposedly happened the accuser went to the hospital and a rape kit was done.
- the result of the rape kit - there was NOOOOOOO Semen, pubic hairs, skin fragments, or other sufficient DNA to support a rape claim.
-So supposedly Big Ben raped this girl, didnít use a condom and yet there is NOOOOOO Semen or other dna.
-Any nurse that has performed rape kits will tell you that if an assailant rapes a girl with out a condom then there would be an abundance of DNA and semen in particular.

Do those of you that want to trade ben and convict him on the colaborated statements of the accuser and her sorority sisters minus any actual evidence not find the fact that there was barely an epithiel on the girl an issue. How did ben rape her and not leave any skin, hair, pubic hair, seman or anything else for that matter.

To me there is a clear lack of evidence that any assault ever happened let alone rape and those of you skewing of the statements and facts in the case is beyond ridiculous. Do you know how little DNA they need to get a match, a miniscule amount and yet in this case they didnt even have that. so again how did big ben rape this girl and yet leave not a trace of himself on her??? Ben is innocent!!!

papillon
04-19-2010, 02:06 PM
The most important and glaring fact in this case is that there is NO SEMEN, NO COMPARABLE DNA of any kind. Lets review the actual facts.

-Big Ben said he didnít have sex with the accuser and the accuser said he had unprotected sex with her without her concent.
-Immediately after the even supposedly happened the accuser went to the hospital and a rape kit was done.
- the result of the rape kit - there was NOOOOOOO Semen, pubic hairs, skin fragments, or other sufficient DNA to support a rape claim.
-So supposedly Big Ben raped this girl, didnít use a condom and yet there is NOOOOOO Semen or other dna.
-Any nurse that has performed rape kits will tell you that if an assailant rapes a girl with out a condom then there would be an abundance of DNA and semen in particular.

Do those of you that want to trade ben and convict him on the colaborated statements of the accuser and her sorority sisters minus any actual evidence not find the fact that there was barely an epithiel on the girl an issue. How did ben rape her and not leave any skin, hair, pubic hair, seman or anything else for that matter.

To me there is a clear lack of evidence that any assault ever happened let alone rape and those of you skewing of the statements and facts in the case is beyond ridiculous. Do you know how little DNA they need to get a match, a miniscule amount and yet in this case they didnt even have that. so again how did big ben rape this girl and yet leave not a trace of himself on her??? Ben is innocent!!!

Very few, if any, believe that Ben did anything even remotely resembling rape to the girl. We do believe, however, that he behaved in a manner not befitting a 28 year old multi-millionaire quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Clearly, the contact with the woman was minimal and probably consensual. Our problem is trying to score tail in a bathroom barely larger than a phone booth and in a public venue.

Pappy

NW Steeler
04-19-2010, 02:12 PM
I am dead on in agreement with you Pappy. That is why it is INSANE for some people to be calling for an 8-game or even season long suspension over this incident.

Snatch98
04-19-2010, 02:38 PM
I am dead on in agreement with you Pappy. That is why it is INSANE for some people to be calling for an 8-game or even season long suspension over this incident.


I agree and I can't believe how many subscribe to the above. I was at a political function Saturday and a few people told me they would have trouble rooting for the Steelers with Big Ben as the QB. A friendly argument ensued and I pretty much echoed your thoughts to the "T". He wasn't convicted because rock hard evidence was not found. (DNA etc) I also pointed out that the chicks in question were wearing tags that said "DTF" or if you aren't savvy with the term, "Down to f**k". It's a ridiculous situation that Ben had no business being involved in but I'm confident when I got to sleep at night that he isn't running around raping girls. If you ask me the people up in arms are the Moms and Dads of the world with daughters and they automatically paint a picture. Meanwhile there are plenty of money hungry, vindictive females running around this planet all of which society protects because they are of the "weaker sex"

Big Ben once again has no business getting caught up in this sh.it but he has scantily clad a$$ thrown at him on the regular. I've witnessed it first hand. What reason would he have to force himself on one when he can just walk out and grab another that is willing? He'll get a 4 game suspension max and as others have said if he walks the NFL line I wouldn't be surprised to see it substantially dropped. A 8 game suspension is ridiculous and a 16 game suspension is flat out crazy.

papillon
04-19-2010, 02:52 PM
I am dead on in agreement with you Pappy. That is why it is INSANE for some people to be calling for an 8-game or even season long suspension over this incident.


I agree and I can't believe how many subscribe to the above. I was at a political function Saturday and a few people told me they would have trouble rooting for the Steelers with Big Ben as the QB. A friendly argument ensued and I pretty much echoed your thoughts to the "T". He wasn't convicted because rock hard evidence was not found. (DNA etc) I also pointed out that the chicks in question were wearing tags that said "DTF" or if you aren't savvy with the term, "Down to f**k". It's a ridiculous situation that Ben had no business being involved in but I'm confident when I got to sleep at night that he isn't running around raping girls. If you ask me the people up in arms are the Moms and Dads of the world with daughters and they automatically paint a picture. Meanwhile there are plenty of money hungry, vindictive females running around this planet all of which society protects because they are of the "weaker sex"

Big Ben once again has no business getting caught up in this sh.it but he has scantily clad a$$ thrown at him on the regular. I've witnessed it first hand. What reason would he have to force himself on one when he can just walk out and grab another that is willing? He'll get a 4 game suspension max and as others have said if he walks the NFL line I wouldn't be surprised to see it substantially dropped. A 8 game suspension is ridiculous and a 16 game suspension is flat out crazy.

If he gets 4 and has to serve 4 then something is wrong with the NFL. Vick was charged, convicted and served time and ended up only serving a two game suspension. How can a player, any player, serve more time than a player that was actually charged and convicted.

I'm hoping Goodell gives him 4 and if he does everything they ask of him it gets reduced to none by the time the season rolls around. I just can't see an "alleged" incident costing him more time than an actual conviction.

And, I've been on the Ben needs to grow up band wagon and still am, but, you can't apply punishment randomly and expect positive results.

Pappy

steelblood
04-19-2010, 02:57 PM
The Doctor found no evidence of rape. The minor abrasion to her privates was not telling. There was some (though little) Male DNA on her. Was it Ben's? Maybe. Did he have sex with her and pull out? Probably not. Still, we don't really know what happened at all in the back hall/bathroom. Ben did admit at one point that there was some sexual contact, but not sex. Was it fishy that the video tapes were erased and the bathroom/crime scene was cleaned with chlorox and pine sol? Yes. Is it possible that Ben's lawyer came to a financial settlement with his accuser? Yes. Is it possible that the sororiety sisters got together and fabricated every last sordid detail? I doubt it.

steelfanforlife
04-19-2010, 03:02 PM
When i made my original post i think i was more so addressing those in the media that keep leaking one statement at a time out to generate traffic to their websits while no one has focused in on the glaring fact that Ben was accused of raping a girl with out protection and yet there was nothing in the rape kit - no dna, no pubic hair, no epithileals - nothing - so again before you can give creedence to the claim he raped her dont you have to review the facts and see that the claim has no basis - even the DA stated point blank there wasnt even probable cause - with that why is there not one single article defending Ben and pointing to all the holes in the baseless claim.

The truth is this - the rest of NFL fandome hates the steelers - are jealous not just of the success of the team but of Big Ben and everyone likes to see the mighty fall even if that fall is fabricated. There are more hits to be generated blasting ben than defending him. Its BS and ya Ben should make better decisions but convict him of bad taste and let it be don't misconstrue every salacous fabricated statement to build your business on the back of a champion.

I for one think he shouldnt be suspended at all - its punishment enough running from cheap shots and late hits from the bungles and bravens.

steelfanforlife
04-19-2010, 03:07 PM
Steelblood - you need to look into the code of these sororities - why would the head of the chapter come half way across country and make them remove their face book profiles - they would never protect one of their own would they - They didnt see anything - all they can attest to is she said his pen!s was out - she said she said she said - I have a parrot that will do the same thing repeat what ever i say - give no creedence to their statments - the facts are if you rape a woman without protection i promiss you there is going to be DNA

cruzer8
04-19-2010, 03:24 PM
They only needed one billionth of a gram of DNA (per the GBI forensics investigator) to form a profile. They didn't even have that much.

steelblood
04-19-2010, 03:28 PM
Steelblood - you need to look into the code of these sororities - why would the head of the chapter come half way across country and make them remove their face book profiles - they would never protect one of their own would they - They didnt see anything - all they can attest to is she said his pen!s was out - she said she said she said - I have a parrot that will do the same thing repeat what ever i say - give no creedence to their statments - the facts are if you rape a woman without protection i promiss you there is going to be DNA

I'm not saying he raped her, not in any way. But, he definitely acted like a douchebag. I believe that it is very possible that he walked back there with his junk hanging out. Those sorts of details probably were not fabricated.

The head of the chapter would come half way across the country to protect her sisters especially when she thinks one of them has been raped. The facebook profiles were taken down to protect the sisters and their privacy. The chapter new that everything on them would be scrutinized and didn't care to have that happen especially when they were trying to protect someone whom they believed was raped.

As far as the lack of DNA. I have a sister-in-law who is a metro area emergency room nurse and a friend in law enforcement. Both say that there can be rape with little to no evidence. Example - Dude doesn't cum, pulls out. AND/Or, witness is too drunk or high to put up a fight.. Look, there was a laceration. There was some DNA. There was some evidence there. Just not enough to conclude that it was rape and Ben did it. Still, something may have happened. I really think it is unlikely that these sisters got together and cooked up a rape story and all the details to go with it. Could the accuser have lied? Sure. Could some of the sisters have told some lies? Yes. Could there be a lot of truth to what the sisters said? Yes. We'll likely never know the story. Trying to figure out the truth from the details we have is pretty close to impossible.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-19-2010, 03:43 PM
If he gets 4 and has to serve 4 then something is wrong with the NFL. Vick was charged, convicted and served time and ended up only serving a two game suspension. How can a player, any player, serve more time than a player that was actually charged and convicted.

Pap, I am not one of the "Trade him now" contingent. However, if you are going to compare this to the Vick situation you may as well consider the two years spent in prison as part of Vick's suspension because the league did.

If Vick was somehow not charged then his suspension would have been significantly longer than two games.

Steel Life
04-19-2010, 05:48 PM
This is from DA Bright's presser...

Q: Did you see the videotape before it was erased? Did it have an effect on this case?

A: Zero effect. The incident happened at Capital City Club in a small, dingy bathroom in what they call the back area, the V.I.P. area. Thereís obviously no camera in the bathroom, and thereís no camera in the V.I.P. area. As far as it being erased, it really wasnít. Technologyís really not my thing, but they had viewed it. They had viewed portions of it. But thereís no camera that wouldíve shed any light one way or the other on anything relevant. There are some surveillance cameras, and they do show Ė and they have seen them Ė Mr. Roethlisberger and his party coming in first; the victim and her sorority sisters came in later. But thatís not in dispute. Iíve read all this stuff about this tape being erased. That really is a non-issue.

Q: Was there any evidence or lack of evidence that swayed your decision one way or the other?

A: The crime of rape has three elements: sexual intercourse, which requires penetration, forcibly, and against her will. All three elements, Iíve got a problem proving all three of those. Itís not the DNA. It was human. We can tell it came from a male. And we can tell itís DNA. But thatís all they can tell you. Itís such a minute sample they said ĎDonít waste your time sending Mr. Roethlisbergerís or anybodyís DNA here. It will just sit in a bag. We canít profile it, compare it, to anybody.í DNA we can get through a search warrant, but there was no need to compare it to anything here.

BlackJackGold
04-19-2010, 07:31 PM
I am dead on in agreement with you Pappy. That is why it is INSANE for some people to be calling for an 8-game or even season long suspension over this incident.


I agree and I can't believe how many subscribe to the above. I was at a political function Saturday and a few people told me they would have trouble rooting for the Steelers with Big Ben as the QB. A friendly argument ensued and I pretty much echoed your thoughts to the "T". He wasn't convicted because rock hard evidence was not found. (DNA etc) I also pointed out that the chicks in question were wearing tags that said "DTF" or if you aren't savvy with the term, "Down to f**k". It's a ridiculous situation that Ben had no business being involved in but I'm confident when I got to sleep at night that he isn't running around raping girls. If you ask me the people up in arms are the Moms and Dads of the world with daughters and they automatically paint a picture. Meanwhile there are plenty of money hungry, vindictive females running around this planet all of which society protects because they are of the "weaker sex"

Big Ben once again has no business getting caught up in this sh.it but he has scantily clad a$$ thrown at him on the regular. I've witnessed it first hand. What reason would he have to force himself on one when he can just walk out and grab another that is willing? He'll get a 4 game suspension max and as others have said if he walks the NFL line I wouldn't be surprised to see it substantially dropped. A 8 game suspension is ridiculous and a 16 game suspension is flat out crazy.

If he gets 4 and has to serve 4 then something is wrong with the NFL. Vick was charged, convicted and served time and ended up only serving a two game suspension. How can a player, any player, serve more time than a player that was actually charged and convicted.

I'm hoping Goodell gives him 4 and if he does everything they ask of him it gets reduced to none by the time the season rolls around. I just can't see an "alleged" incident costing him more time than an actual conviction.

And, I've been on the Ben needs to grow up band wagon and still am, but, you can't apply punishment randomly and expect positive results.

Pappy

Vick was suspended 'indefinitely' almost immediately after he was charged.

they didn't wait around for a conviction or sentencing.

papillon
04-19-2010, 07:59 PM
I am dead on in agreement with you Pappy. That is why it is INSANE for some people to be calling for an 8-game or even season long suspension over this incident.


I agree and I can't believe how many subscribe to the above. I was at a political function Saturday and a few people told me they would have trouble rooting for the Steelers with Big Ben as the QB. A friendly argument ensued and I pretty much echoed your thoughts to the "T". He wasn't convicted because rock hard evidence was not found. (DNA etc) I also pointed out that the chicks in question were wearing tags that said "DTF" or if you aren't savvy with the term, "Down to f**k". It's a ridiculous situation that Ben had no business being involved in but I'm confident when I got to sleep at night that he isn't running around raping girls. If you ask me the people up in arms are the Moms and Dads of the world with daughters and they automatically paint a picture. Meanwhile there are plenty of money hungry, vindictive females running around this planet all of which society protects because they are of the "weaker sex"

Big Ben once again has no business getting caught up in this sh.it but he has scantily clad a$$ thrown at him on the regular. I've witnessed it first hand. What reason would he have to force himself on one when he can just walk out and grab another that is willing? He'll get a 4 game suspension max and as others have said if he walks the NFL line I wouldn't be surprised to see it substantially dropped. A 8 game suspension is ridiculous and a 16 game suspension is flat out crazy.

If he gets 4 and has to serve 4 then something is wrong with the NFL. Vick was charged, convicted and served time and ended up only serving a two game suspension. How can a player, any player, serve more time than a player that was actually charged and convicted.

I'm hoping Goodell gives him 4 and if he does everything they ask of him it gets reduced to none by the time the season rolls around. I just can't see an "alleged" incident costing him more time than an actual conviction.

And, I've been on the Ben needs to grow up band wagon and still am, but, you can't apply punishment randomly and expect positive results.

Pappy

Vick was suspended 'indefinitely' almost immediately after he was charged.

they didn't wait around for a conviction or sentencing.

Not exactly, he wasn't suspended (http://football.about.com/b/2007/08/24/nfl-drops-hammer-on-vick-with-indefinite-suspension.htm) until he admitted his guilt, then Goodell suspended him indefinitely and gave the Falcons the go ahead to try and recoup as much of salary and bonus as they could.

Pappy

Shawn
04-19-2010, 08:20 PM
The most important and glaring fact in this case is that there is NO SEMEN, NO COMPARABLE DNA of any kind. Lets review the actual facts.

-Big Ben said he didnít have sex with the accuser and the accuser said he had unprotected sex with her without her concent.
-Immediately after the even supposedly happened the accuser went to the hospital and a rape kit was done.
- the result of the rape kit - there was NOOOOOOO Semen, pubic hairs, skin fragments, or other sufficient DNA to support a rape claim.
-So supposedly Big Ben raped this girl, didnít use a condom and yet there is NOOOOOO Semen or other dna.
-Any nurse that has performed rape kits will tell you that if an assailant rapes a girl with out a condom then there would be an abundance of DNA and semen in particular.

Do those of you that want to trade ben and convict him on the colaborated statements of the accuser and her sorority sisters minus any actual evidence not find the fact that there was barely an epithiel on the girl an issue. How did ben rape her and not leave any skin, hair, pubic hair, seman or anything else for that matter.

To me there is a clear lack of evidence that any assault ever happened let alone rape and those of you skewing of the statements and facts in the case is beyond ridiculous. Do you know how little DNA they need to get a match, a miniscule amount and yet in this case they didnt even have that. so again how did big ben rape this girl and yet leave not a trace of himself on her??? Ben is innocent!!!


Are you sure about that? I do 2-3 rape exams a month and we often don't get DNA even on those individuals saying they were just raped. Maybe he never got off. Is that what he meant by "unconsummated"? When it was common for women to have pubic hair...it would serve almost like velco to catch the perps pubic hair. But, girls now a days almost all shave. Skin cells are hit or miss.

She either abused herself shortly before that exam or had sex with someone. Fresh vaginal abrasions, vaginal bleeding indicate recent sexual activity...some rough activity at that. Alot of times physicians don't like to make definite statements about their findings for various reasons. But, from what I read I would think the physician had reasonable suspicion of recent sexual activity.

I'm not so sure an absence of DNA vindicates Ben but it would certainly make the case hard to prosecute.

Ghost
04-20-2010, 08:27 AM
Shawn - I think your'e wrong about the case. I mean, I've watched CSI for 7 or 8 years and DNA is everywhere and you can always find it.... :wink: