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rpmpit
04-19-2010, 06:57 AM
Yes, I am. I think 8 games will satisfy both sides of our divided Nation.

I can't wait for football, but I have to admit that I'm not really looking forward to seeing Ben on the field yet. Still too many unanswered questions and doubts in my mind.

I feel like an idiot for preaching to my friends and family for so many years how great the Rooneys and the Steelers organization is and how they wouldn't tolerate the crap that other teams put up with. And now all this.

AND I KNOW BEN WASN'T CHARGED :HeadBanger I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, so save your breath (or your keystrokes in this case) and don't try to change mine.

I'll give Ben the opportunity to fix this. If he truly did nothing wrong, he needs to tell his side of the story. I know most of what we've been hearing has been one-sided.

papillon
04-19-2010, 07:04 AM
Yes, I am. I think 8 games will satisfy both sides of our divided Nation.

I can't wait for football, but I have to admit that I'm not really looking forward to seeing Ben on the field yet. Still too many unanswered questions and doubts in my mind.

I feel like an idiot for preaching to my friends and family for so many years how great the Rooneys and the Steelers organization is and how they wouldn't tolerate the crap that other teams put up with. And now all this.

AND I KNOW BEN WASN'T CHARGED :HeadBanger I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, so save your breath (or your keystrokes in this case) and don't try to change mine.

I'll give Ben the opportunity to fix this. If he truly did nothing wrong, he needs to tell his side of the story. I know most of what we've been hearing has been one-sided.

You know rpm the more and more I read about the whole thing it is my belief that a stiff fine (500K - 750K) and 2 games is all he should get and I've been a harsh critic of his behavior in this whole incident. Originally, I was hoping for 4 and would have been fine with 8; however, the police report shows so much inconsistency that it is difficult to determine how inappropriately Ben acted that evening.

He deserves some wrath from the NFL and the Steelers, but not nearly what I had originally hoped for. He may be guilty of social failings, but that's about it.

Pappy

SteelBucks
04-19-2010, 07:31 AM
I'm probably in the minority but I'd give him a 16 game suspension without pay. If that doesn't wake him up, nothing will. I know this will never happen because the players union would go nuts.

IMO, Ben will get a two game suspension and fined an unspecified amount. The comish will probably also recommend some sort of counseling.

SteelCrazy
04-19-2010, 07:34 AM
I'm with Pap on this......2 games and a fine is more than sufficient especially after considering all of the evidence from the police report. Even though that may still be too much, Ben has got to take it for the team and the NFL because this has been a very dark spot for the Steelers and NFL when you consider how this has been reported in the media.

costanza2k1
04-19-2010, 08:27 AM
I don't feel like 2 will be enough, I think 4 is sufficient. 8 is just nuts, that's unprecedented for someone who in my mind is a scumbag but still has NEVER been charged with a crime.

ramblinjim
04-19-2010, 08:35 AM
I'm kinda fence sitting on this one, I'd like to see four games and a big fine. I'd like to see it handed out by the Rooney's to show that the Steelers don't put up with this s**t and not the NFL. But we'll have to wait and see.

I'm not sure about counseling; I don't know Ben to say "this is a problem for Ben" or "Ben is a horses b-hind and just doesn't get it" maybe a long stint of community service in a battered women's shelter would be a better way for him to see the other side of things than say three months in Alcohol classes.

Oviedo
04-19-2010, 08:36 AM
Minimum 2 but max of 4 games. The guy is a jerk but he has never been charged. If you suspended every NFL player who is a jerk then there wouldn't be many playing. If Ben stumbles again then he deserves to be cut.

Ghost
04-19-2010, 08:45 AM
This is already unchartered territory for the NFL and the Players Union. Ben's not been arrested or charged and as such is considered a first time offender of the conduct policy. I believe this is the first time a player wasn't at least arrested.

It's a fine line between Ben getting "special" treatment b/c he's a big time QB and the league being excessive. If he were to get 8 games then the precedent is set and now teams/players could get a 1/2 season. No way the Union allows that. They'd fight it and this mess stays in the press. Goodell wants this behind them and he knows 8 games would keep it around.

Djfan
04-19-2010, 08:46 AM
I just want him to come down from the high horse he is sitting on. Whatever that takes is fine by me.

steelblood
04-19-2010, 08:52 AM
"high horse"

That is it! I've always felt he has an air of superiority that is offputting.

How about 4 games and castration?

Oviedo
04-19-2010, 09:02 AM
"high horse"

That is it! I've always felt he has an air of superiority that is offputting.

How about 4 games and castration?

Ben "The Eunuch"

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-19-2010, 09:05 AM
The Steeler name is soiled. The main thing in my mind is getting it clean again. I've spent years telling my 16 year old son how the Steelers are different, they even let people go where other teams would sign the same players.

The Steelers have a choice - do they become the Ravens/Bengals, or do they stay the Steelers. Unfortunately for Ben, it has very little to do with what he did or didn't do that night - it has to do with perception - because that is what any brand is, including the Steeler brand is.

Fair or not - Ben put himself, and the Steelers, in this position because he didn't understand how to keep his franchise "clean" like Brady*, Manning, Manning, Brees, etc.

I think 4-8 games would be appropriate - it would show that the Steelers care enough about doing the right thing that they are even willing to sacrifice a season to do it. It may not shut down the media and away fans, but I think it may shut down the booing at Heinz Field. I think I would get nauseous hearing boos against the Steelers there just because Ben is on the field. I know if I knew he had been punished, had counseling, and was truly penitent, I would not boo Ben.

So once again, do we become the Ravens/Bengals, or do we stay the Steelers?

My :2c

WoodleyofTroy
04-19-2010, 09:22 AM
I feel like an idiot for preaching to my friends and family for so many years how great the Rooneys and the Steelers organization is and how they wouldn't tolerate the crap that other teams put up with. And now all this.

You do realize they just released a Super Bowl MVP in his prime, right?

BURGH86STEEL
04-19-2010, 09:27 AM
I think up to 4 games is fair. I think that is what he will get. I hope he learns something from this latest incident.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-19-2010, 09:28 AM
I'm probably in the minority but I'd give him a 16 game suspension without pay. If that doesn't wake him up, nothing will. I know this will never happen because the players union would go nuts.

IMO, Ben will get a two game suspension and fined an unspecified amount. The comish will probably also recommend some sort of counseling.

Is this if you were the commish or the team?

NWNewell
04-19-2010, 09:33 AM
Yes, I am. I think 8 games will satisfy both sides of our divided Nation.

I can't wait for football, but I have to admit that I'm not really looking forward to seeing Ben on the field yet. Still too many unanswered questions and doubts in my mind.

I feel like an idiot for preaching to my friends and family for so many years how great the Rooneys and the Steelers organization is and how they wouldn't tolerate the crap that other teams put up with. And now all this.

AND I KNOW BEN WASN'T CHARGED :HeadBanger I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, so save your breath (or your keystrokes in this case) and don't try to change mine.

I'll give Ben the opportunity to fix this. If he truly did nothing wrong, he needs to tell his side of the story. I know most of what we've been hearing has been one-sided.

You know rpm the more and more I read about the whole thing it is my belief that a stiff fine (500K - 750K) and 2 games is all he should get and I've been a harsh critic of his behavior in this whole incident. Originally, I was hoping for 4 and would have been fine with 8; however, the police report shows so much inconsistency that it is difficult to determine how inappropriately Ben acted that evening.

He deserves some wrath from the NFL and the Steelers, but not nearly what I had originally hoped for. He may be guilty of social failings, but that's about it.

Pappy


All in all... I'm still for 4 games and mandatory counseling. While the details of what transpired in this recent incident may be shaky, his actions were still inexcusable, they resulted in his body guard having to resign from the police force (not all Ben's fault, the cop has to be responsible too), there are several other stories and at least one other accusation still pending.

For the sake of the team and Ben's personal future, I think there needs to be some harsh accountability that hopefully will force Ben to re-evaluate his lifestyle and take the appropriate steps to change.

He could still have a long, successful career ahead of him, but not the way he's going.

Even if he is cleared of all wrong doing and comes out of everything clean. He still needs to be saved from himself by some tough love!

:2c

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-19-2010, 09:37 AM
So once again, do we become the Ravens/Bengals, or do we stay the Steelers?

I think that the team has already differentiated itself. When was the last time that one of these other teams came out and said that they are working alongside the league to mete out appropriate punishment? How about facing the media - and having the player face the media - in a contrite manner despite the absence of even an arrest?

The Steelers have been proactive in dealing with this situation and are facing it head on. The team owners are weighing in prior to the league's decision. Again....when do you see that with the other teams in the league?

aggiebones
04-19-2010, 12:41 PM
This makes no sense. Never charged and never received a suspension before. But you guys want to hang him right out of the bat. I gotta say that would be horribly unfair to Ben.
A couple games is correct punishment, followed by a probation with a short leash.
A full year suspension in this situation is similar to chopping off hands for stealing bread.

You guys are victims. Probably more so than the girl who Ben showed his willy to.
You guys had your feelings hurt for being Steeler fans and you want blood.

Well, rarely do the victims get to give the punishment, so you guys will surely not be happy with the results.
Hey, maybe just castrate him or chop off his willy. Then he'll never be able to do anyhting like this again.
Geez

Slapstick
04-19-2010, 12:49 PM
Four games is excessive...

Two games is acceptable, I suppose, considering that he hasn't been formally charged with doing anything illegal...

The Steelers shouldn't get too hung up on matters of perception...they didn't when certain media types said that the refs handed them SB XL...they didn't when certain media types claimed that the 70s dynasty was "tainted" by allegations of steroid abuse...they shouldn't now...

Ben should get help...if for nothing else than his off-field decision making skills...

cruzer8
04-19-2010, 12:56 PM
This makes no sense. Never charged and never received a suspension before. But you guys want to hang him right out of the bat. I gotta say that would be horribly unfair to Ben.
A couple games is correct punishment, followed by a probation with a short leash.
A full year suspension in this situation is similar to chopping off hands for stealing bread.

You guys are victims. Probably more so than the girl who Ben showed his willy to.
You guys had your feelings hurt for being Steeler fans and you want blood.

Well, rarely do the victims get to give the punishment, so you guys will surely not be happy with the results.
Hey, maybe just castrate him or chop off his willy. Then he'll never be able to do anyhting like this again.
Geez


Sounds about right.

I'm hoping for any combination of counseling, a fine and community service.

Art II has stated Ben needs to work to get back in the good graces of the organization and the fans. If he's suspended and the Steelers miss the playoffs due to losing games while he is suspended then it's not going to be very easy for him to work back into those good graces, is it?

A suspension would only punish the fans and the players, and it would also give our divisional opponents an unfair advantage. And it would make it that much tougher on Ben to make amends too.

No suspension is the correct decision.

Oviedo
04-19-2010, 01:03 PM
This makes no sense. Never charged and never received a suspension before. But you guys want to hang him right out of the bat. I gotta say that would be horribly unfair to Ben.
A couple games is correct punishment, followed by a probation with a short leash.
A full year suspension in this situation is similar to chopping off hands for stealing bread.

You guys are victims. Probably more so than the girl who Ben showed his willy to.
You guys had your feelings hurt for being Steeler fans and you want blood.

Well, rarely do the victims get to give the punishment, so you guys will surely not be happy with the results.
Hey, maybe just castrate him or chop off his willy. Then he'll never be able to do anyhting like this again.
Geez

It is politically correct to blame the male and give the female "victim" a free pass :stirpot

Despite feminism, women are still just helpless victims of oppressive men who force them to go out and party and dump alcohol down their throats against their will :stirpot

flippy
04-19-2010, 01:20 PM
I'm hoping for 0 games.

Don't make everyone else suffer (fans, steelers, teammates). Let's just move on and get Ben the help he needs if it's determined he needs it.

And make him do some community work.


or


I hope they put Ben on Celebrity Rehab so we could watch his recovery. Then he could move into Sober House. I'm sure he's more interesting than Dennis Rodman and many others that are there right now.

ikestops85
04-19-2010, 01:58 PM
I think Ben should accept a 2 game suspension but anything other than that he needs to go into attack mode.

Let's look at what has gone on here. Nine or ten months ago a suit gets filed against Ben for sexually assaulting a women a year earlier. I think most of us agree that the women is a looney tune and the suit is BS. Ben had a one night stand and I'm sure most of the single guys in the NFL have done that. The only thing Ben did wrong in this case was sleep with a crazy lady and if she didn't file a suit nobody would have known about it.

Now on to the Georgia incident. Ben goes bar hopping on his birthday looking to score. Things after that get a little murky. Did Ben set up the bathroom thing or did someone else tell him he had a birthday present in the bathroom? Did Ben have sexual contact with the girl or did he tell her to leave because she was too drunk? I don't know these things ... besides Ben and the girl I don't think anyone else does either.

This is why I think the NFL is overstepping its bounds by suspending Ben. I think he could fight ANY suspension and win easily in the courts. The personal conduct clause in the player contracts is too vague. Besides, if they do this than where will it stop. Can you suspend a player if his wife sues for divorce and claims he was having an affair? Would that tarnish the NFL's image? What about failure to pay child support? What about if the player doesn't take care of his mom? What about the league's rep if you see a headline that says something like "Millionaire NFLer Hines Ward's Mom living out of her car -- Hines won't return her call"? Is that a suspendable offense?

Plus, where the hell do they get off putting in a system where you appeal to the person who levies the penalty? :wft It's un-American for them to have that type of policy in place. That's why I say anything more than 2 games Ben should come out and attack. He should present his side , re-iterate that charges have not been filed, say he is not guilty of anything, claim he is the victim, that his name has been sullied, and demand the suspension be lifted.

Unless he is guilty. Then he should accept the punishment, hang his head and thank his lucky stars his ass ain't in jail where it should be.

Now my personal feeling is Ben is an arrogant ass who has too high of an opinion of himself. I don't think I will ever wear my number 7 jersey again just because it would make me feel a little slimey. Luckily for Ben he lives in America. Neither my opinion, media articles or public perception should enter into whether he should be suspended. Only facts KNOWN about the event should be used to decide that and I don't think the NFL has facts to support a suspension.

NW Steeler
04-19-2010, 02:17 PM
8 games? Are you SERIOUS????

:wft :wft :wft :wft :wft :HeadBanger :HeadBanger :HeadBanger :HeadBanger

LouSteel
04-19-2010, 02:29 PM
Luckily for Ben he lives in America. Neither my opinion, media articles or public perception should enter into whether he should be suspended. Only facts KNOWN about the event should be used to decide that and I don't think the NFL has facts to support a suspension.

That's just wrong, in my opinion.

Here in America, no opinion, media articles, or perception should enter into the legal system.

But the NFL's conduct policy is not the legal system. The NFL is a private company and has the right to manage their employees in any way they wish.

Indeed, the NFL must take into account opinion and perception to Ben's discipline, because the NFL relies on the opinion of the public to sell their product.

This is a unique place for everyone -- never before has a suspension come down without even an arrest. But Ben has embarrassed the team and league, so it's got to happen. The important thing is that the NFL, the Steelers, the NFLPA, and Ben present a unified front: whatever the decision, Ben stands up and says "I accept this decision", the union doesn't oppose it, and we move on with the season.

If Ben tries to fight the decision, he's going to ruin public perception.

Personally, I'd like the league to hand Ben 2 games, and for Coach Tomlin to make him hold a clipboard for a third and maybe even a fourth. But no matter what, Ben accepts his punishment and moves on.

sd steel
04-19-2010, 02:57 PM
I would hope for no suspension, and if one was handed down I would hope that Ben would deny any wrong doing. If he accepts a suspension basically he would be accepting guilt in my opinion, which would mean the legal system failed.

If he accepts a suspension, hence admitting guilt, he should be traded or cut. Also any suspension will hurt this team which will continue to effect us, the fans. He should either fight the suspension and the charges and tell his side of the story, or he should be shipped out of Pittsburgh. Anything else makes it look like he "got away with it", and a suspension isn't good enough in my opinion, and it makes the Steeler FO look like hypocrits.

cruzer8
04-19-2010, 03:19 PM
I would hope for no suspension, and if one was handed down I would hope that Ben would deny any wrong doing. If he accepts a suspension basically he would be accepting guilt in my opinion, which would mean the legal system failed.

If he accepts a suspension, hence admitting guilt, he should be traded or cut. Also any suspension will hurt this team which will continue to effect us, the fans. He should either fight the suspension and the charges and tell his side of the story, or he should be shipped out of Pittsburgh. Anything else makes it look like he "got away with it", and a suspension isn't good enough in my opinion, and it makes the Steeler FO look like hypocrits.

Accepting punishment is not admitting guilt.

Flasteel
04-19-2010, 03:22 PM
2 games and a heavy fine. I agree with SD that any suspension hurts us as fans and hurts the team's chances for the playoffs. But I also think many of us feel a suspension of 2 games is at least called for in this case and we probably would be willing to take that potential hit to the record to see justice done.

cruzer8
04-19-2010, 03:26 PM
2 games and a heavy fine. I agree with SD that any suspension hurts us as fans and hurts the team's chances for the playoffs. But I also think many of us feel a suspension of 2 games is at least called for in this case and we probably would be willing to take that potential hit to the record to see justice done.

I'm not many. There are others here as well who aren't many.

There should be no suspension.

RuthlessBurgher
04-19-2010, 03:34 PM
I would hope for no suspension, and if one was handed down I would hope that Ben would deny any wrong doing. If he accepts a suspension basically he would be accepting guilt in my opinion, which would mean the legal system failed.

If he accepts a suspension, hence admitting guilt, he should be traded or cut. Also any suspension will hurt this team which will continue to effect us, the fans. He should either fight the suspension and the charges and tell his side of the story, or he should be shipped out of Pittsburgh. Anything else makes it look like he "got away with it", and a suspension isn't good enough in my opinion, and it makes the Steeler FO look like hypocrits.

Accepting punishment is not admitting guilt.

Exactly. The league isn't punishing him for raping someone, so accepting punishment is not an admission of such guilt. The league is punishing him for a pattern of behavior that embarrasses himself, his family, his teammates, the fans, and the league. The D.A. said that he punishes crimes, not morals. The personal conduct policy of the league is not limited in the same manner.

Accepting a suspension and/or fine is only admitting guilt of being a frat boy douche, and taking the punishment like a man (and not dragging this ordeal on any further by appealing it) is the first step toward the end of his delusional sense of entitlement.

sd steel
04-19-2010, 03:35 PM
I would hope for no suspension, and if one was handed down I would hope that Ben would deny any wrong doing. If he accepts a suspension basically he would be accepting guilt in my opinion, which would mean the legal system failed.

If he accepts a suspension, hence admitting guilt, he should be traded or cut. Also any suspension will hurt this team which will continue to effect us, the fans. He should either fight the suspension and the charges and tell his side of the story, or he should be shipped out of Pittsburgh. Anything else makes it look like he "got away with it", and a suspension isn't good enough in my opinion, and it makes the Steeler FO look like hypocrits.

Accepting punishment is not admitting guilt.
Would you accept punishment stemming from something you didn't do? Or would you state your case and make it known that you did nothing wrong? I'm not saying he still wouldn't be suspended, but at least go down swinging if you are innocent. No?

JAR
04-19-2010, 03:42 PM
8 games would be a travesty. According to Goodell himself, Ben should get NO suspension.

It will be considered conduct detrimental [for league personnel] to engage in ... violent and/or criminal activity." The policy went on to describe the line in the sand that could not be crossed, and that line was this: an arrest or a legal charge. A player didn't have to be convicted of a crime to be suspended; he had to be "arrested or charged.

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/ ... eContainer (http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/13243927/goodells-conduct-policy-veering-from-mostly-right-to-all-wrong?tag=pageRow;pageContainer)

sd steel
04-19-2010, 03:45 PM
Again this will be public perception, but by accepting a suspension for "conduct detrimental to the NFL", it will be read as suspension for "rape, that you didnt get charged for".

This will not affect me being that I do not normally flaunt my Steeler gear, and I watch all games at my home, and I have a close group of friends who know my Steeler allegiance and don't give me crap about personnel issues. But for the guys going to the bar, other fans and even the media will have a field day with it. Just like when Ray Lewis got off. But I think Ray came back and won the Super Bowl the following year, hopefully if they keep Ben he will as well.

RuthlessBurgher
04-19-2010, 03:47 PM
[quote="sd steel":i1ekph2k]I would hope for no suspension, and if one was handed down I would hope that Ben would deny any wrong doing. If he accepts a suspension basically he would be accepting guilt in my opinion, which would mean the legal system failed.

If he accepts a suspension, hence admitting guilt, he should be traded or cut. Also any suspension will hurt this team which will continue to effect us, the fans. He should either fight the suspension and the charges and tell his side of the story, or he should be shipped out of Pittsburgh. Anything else makes it look like he "got away with it", and a suspension isn't good enough in my opinion, and it makes the Steeler FO look like hypocrits.

Accepting punishment is not admitting guilt.
Would you accept punishment stemming from something you didn't do? Or would you state your case and make it known that you did nothing wrong? I'm not saying he still wouldn't be suspended, but at least go down swinging if you are innocent. No?[/quote:i1ekph2k]

If it were a court case, absolutely. If charges were filed, he would fight it tooth and nail. In Tahoe, even though criminal charges were never filed, he responded to the ridiculous allegations in the civil suit with a countersuit. Fighting such allegations is the right thing to do.

But punishment from the league is not defending an allegation. The league is not saying that he is a rapist or that he committed any form of sexual assault. The league is considering punishment because he is acting in such a manner that is unbecoming of a professional. The commissioner's punishment would be because there has been a string of incidents in which he has acted like a jerk-off in public that embarrassed the league as a whole (being an @$$hole is not illegal, but the personal conduct policy allows the commissioner to fine or suspend someone for behavior that is detrimental to the league even if there is nothing inherently criminal about such activity).

sd steel
04-19-2010, 03:51 PM
[quote="sd steel":3ojjljdv]I would hope for no suspension, and if one was handed down I would hope that Ben would deny any wrong doing. If he accepts a suspension basically he would be accepting guilt in my opinion, which would mean the legal system failed.

If he accepts a suspension, hence admitting guilt, he should be traded or cut. Also any suspension will hurt this team which will continue to effect us, the fans. He should either fight the suspension and the charges and tell his side of the story, or he should be shipped out of Pittsburgh. Anything else makes it look like he "got away with it", and a suspension isn't good enough in my opinion, and it makes the Steeler FO look like hypocrits.

Accepting punishment is not admitting guilt.
Would you accept punishment stemming from something you didn't do? Or would you state your case and make it known that you did nothing wrong? I'm not saying he still wouldn't be suspended, but at least go down swinging if you are innocent. No?

If it were a court case, absolutely. If charges were filed, he would fight it tooth and nail. In Tahoe, even though criminal charges were never filed, he responded to the ridiculous allegations in the civil suit with a countersuit. Fighting such allegations is the right thing to do.

But punishment from the league is not defending an allegation. The league is not saying that he is a rapist or that he committed any form of sexual assault. The league is considering punishment because he is acting in such a manner that is unbecoming of a professional. The commissioner's punishment would be because there has been a string of incidents in which he has acted like a jerk-off in public that embarrassed the league as a whole (being an @$$hole is not illegal, but the personal conduct policy allows the commissioner to fine or suspend someone for behavior that is detrimental to the league even if there is nothing inherently criminal about such activity).[/quote:3ojjljdv]
I'm not disagreeing with you, just telling what public perception will be.

Flasteel
04-19-2010, 05:20 PM
2 games and a heavy fine. I agree with SD that any suspension hurts us as fans and hurts the team's chances for the playoffs. But I also think many of us feel a suspension of 2 games is at least called for in this case and we probably would be willing to take that potential hit to the record to see justice done.

I'm not many. There are others here as well who aren't many.

There should be no suspension.

Correct. You would be known as few...as in extreme minority.

SS Laser
04-19-2010, 06:52 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you, just telling what public perception will be.[/quote]

It does not matter if he gets a short,long,no nfl/steelers suspention. His public perception is in the crapper! There are a bunch of steeler fans that want him traded. A bunch on here and I am sure the steeler nation that will not see the steelers the same way while Ben is under center.

Do you really think anything is going to change outside the nation? Nope never, he will be pig ben forever to rival fans.

I don't care what the suspension is take it like a man ben. Move on and become a smarter person and become the greatest QB you can and steelers nation for the most part will love you again.

Discipline of Steel
04-19-2010, 07:40 PM
[quote="sd steel":hf64z3sp]I would hope for no suspension, and if one was handed down I would hope that Ben would deny any wrong doing. If he accepts a suspension basically he would be accepting guilt in my opinion, which would mean the legal system failed.

If he accepts a suspension, hence admitting guilt, he should be traded or cut. Also any suspension will hurt this team which will continue to effect us, the fans. He should either fight the suspension and the charges and tell his side of the story, or he should be shipped out of Pittsburgh. Anything else makes it look like he "got away with it", and a suspension isn't good enough in my opinion, and it makes the Steeler FO look like hypocrits.

Accepting punishment is not admitting guilt.
Would you accept punishment stemming from something you didn't do? Or would you state your case and make it known that you did nothing wrong? I'm not saying he still wouldn't be suspended, but at least go down swinging if you are innocent. No?

If it were a court case, absolutely. If charges were filed, he would fight it tooth and nail. In Tahoe, even though criminal charges were never filed, he responded to the ridiculous allegations in the civil suit with a countersuit. Fighting such allegations is the right thing to do.

But punishment from the league is not defending an allegation. The league is not saying that he is a rapist or that he committed any form of sexual assault. The league is considering punishment because he is acting in such a manner that is unbecoming of a professional. The commissioner's punishment would be because there has been a string of incidents in which he has acted like a jerk-off in public that embarrassed the league as a whole (being an @$$hole is not illegal, but the personal conduct policy allows the commissioner to fine or suspend someone for behavior that is detrimental to the league even if there is nothing inherently criminal about such activity).[/quote:hf64z3sp]

Asked by Patrick if there has been a violation of the NFL's personal conduct policy, Goodell replied "Yes, there has been a violation of that."

"The issue here is respect to a pattern of behavior," Goodell said.

I think this quote supports your arguement RB. No single incident qualifies but the pattern does. To me, this is a first offense which requires more guidance than punishment and cant be worth more than 2-4 games off, hopefully 2.

Those of you crowing for 8-16....really? Take a year out of the middle of his career for this pattern of boorish behavior? Thats kind of like impeaching the President for getting a BJ under his desk in the Oval Office. :P

cruzer8
04-19-2010, 09:34 PM
2 games and a heavy fine. I agree with SD that any suspension hurts us as fans and hurts the team's chances for the playoffs. But I also think many of us feel a suspension of 2 games is at least called for in this case and we probably would be willing to take that potential hit to the record to see justice done.

I'm not many. There are others here as well who aren't many.

There should be no suspension.

Correct. You would be known as few...as in extreme minority.

I will make no apologies for being in that extreme minority to the right of the bell curve. Being a 2 percenter is a good thing. ;)

http://blogs.njit.edu/ajz4/files/2009/10/iq_bell_curve1.gif

DrCalculus
04-19-2010, 11:06 PM
Just want to chime in about all of the "Steelers are a classier organization" type of comments.

James Harrison was charged with domestic abuse. Then he played a full season, no suspension, and was Def. Player of the Year. Then he got a monster contract.

How is what he was accused of, and then the charges dropped, of substantial difference than what Ben is accuse of doing, and then the charges dropped? Both reportedly hurt a woman through physical contact.

Maybe Ben should have told Dan Rooney that he was just trying to baptize this 20-yr old girl in the bathroom sink and his penis slipped into her on accident.

Seriously, though...the Steelers have been picking and choosing for some time now. The notion that they are "holier than the Bengals & Ravens" is outdated crap --- maybe 15 yrs ago this was true, when they didn't put up with Bam Morris' drug problem and wouldn't draft character issue guys. But that's over --- and its been over for the past few years. Harrison, Reed, Holmes, Cedrick Wilson, Joey Porter hanging with the wrong crowd and getting shot, Coach Z sending out pornographic emails, etc. --- all signs of a gradual decline in the "Steeler Way" standards that the media seems to think disappeared overnight.

So to hate Ben now because of some mistaken image you have that the Steelers are above employing "thugs and miscreants" is a joke.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-19-2010, 11:19 PM
Just want to chime in about all of the "Steelers are a classier organization" type of comments.

James Harrison was charged with domestic abuse. Then he played a full season, no suspension, and was Def. Player of the Year. Then he got a monster contract.

How is what he was accused of, and then the charges dropped, of substantial difference than what Ben is accuse of doing, and then the charges dropped? Both reportedly hurt a woman through physical contact.

Maybe Ben should have told Dan Rooney that he was just trying to baptize this 20-yr old girl in the bathroom sink and his penis slipped into her on accident.

Seriously, though...the Steelers have been picking and choosing for some time now. The notion that they are "holier than the Bengals & Ravens" is outdated crap --- maybe 15 yrs ago this was true, when they didn't put up with Bam Morris' drug problem and wouldn't draft character issue guys. But that's over --- and its been over for the past few years. Harrison, Reed, Holmes, Cedrick Wilson, Joey Porter hanging with the wrong crowd and getting shot, Coach Z sending out pornographic emails, etc. --- all signs of a gradual decline in the "Steeler Way" standards that the media seems to think disappeared overnight.

So to hate Ben now because of some mistaken image you have that the Steelers are above employing "thugs and miscreants" is a joke.

Good points, DC. But just because things have changed in society and the NFL somewhat over the past decade or two doesn't mean that c. 2010 the Steelers are just like every other team in the NFL.

Case in point - we gave up the Superbowl MVP with a monster season just a few weeks ago because he wasn't acting like the Steelers wanted him too. Have you seen any other team do anything even close to that? Jets picked him up. I think they may be the new Bengals/Ravens.

BTW - who hates Ben (you wrote, "So to hate Ben now because...)?

DrCalculus
04-19-2010, 11:36 PM
Just want to chime in about all of the "Steelers are a classier organization" type of comments.

James Harrison was charged with domestic abuse. Then he played a full season, no suspension, and was Def. Player of the Year. Then he got a monster contract.

How is what he was accused of, and then the charges dropped, of substantial difference than what Ben is accuse of doing, and then the charges dropped? Both reportedly hurt a woman through physical contact.

Maybe Ben should have told Dan Rooney that he was just trying to baptize this 20-yr old girl in the bathroom sink and his penis slipped into her on accident.

Seriously, though...the Steelers have been picking and choosing for some time now. The notion that they are "holier than the Bengals & Ravens" is outdated crap --- maybe 15 yrs ago this was true, when they didn't put up with Bam Morris' drug problem and wouldn't draft character issue guys. But that's over --- and its been over for the past few years. Harrison, Reed, Holmes, Cedrick Wilson, Joey Porter hanging with the wrong crowd and getting shot, Coach Z sending out pornographic emails, etc. --- all signs of a gradual decline in the "Steeler Way" standards that the media seems to think disappeared overnight.

So to hate Ben now because of some mistaken image you have that the Steelers are above employing "thugs and miscreants" is a joke.

Good points, DC. But just because things have changed in society and the NFL somewhat over the past decade or two doesn't mean that c. 2010 the Steelers are just like every other team in the NFL.

Case in point - we gave up the Superbowl MVP with a monster season just a few weeks ago because he wasn't acting like the Steelers wanted him too. Have you seen any other team do anything even close to that? Jets picked him up. I think they may be the new Bengals/Ravens.

BTW - who hates Ben (you wrote, "So to hate Ben now because...)?

Well, I wasn't claiming everyone did. But I've now seen him called a slew of names that definitely imply a few posters aren't feeling the love anymore.

And I'd argue that like it or not, the Steelers ARE becoming more like other teams in the NFL. The day Rooney made the embarrassing justification and subsequent back-pedal on the Harrison situation was proof enough of that. Ownership accepted thug behavior from a star player. "It was a one time thing and he assured me it was for a good reason" or something to that effect....sure sounds a lot like "We believe that Ray was not involved in the assault" or "Coach, I think this Chris Henry kid is really just misunderstood" or "We're going to stand by LJ and give him the chance to get his attitude turned around" (paraphrasing, of course, I don't have actual quotes handy). So, yeah, I believe that Steeler mystique has been eroding for a while now. Some just don't want to admit that it started before Ben had women problems.

They will put up with your crap if they think you can get your shizzit together and help the team. They are all about "one more chance" now. They didn't used to be. Ask Bam Morris.

Now, will they tolerate it over and over and over like Cincy did with Chris Henry, or Tennessee did with Pacman? Well, apparently not. If you're a WR who is going to be asking for break the bank money a year after ownership has implied that the team passes too much...and who then insults the fan base and gets suspended for 4 games, then it is clear that the Rooneys have reached the cut-'im-loose stage. I hardly think that "See, they didn't put up with Holmes' crap" is a valid point. They DID put up with it ... a lot. Pot. Striking his girlfriend. Memorial Day disturbing the peace. Diva ego. Yes, there was quite a bit of crap. For a long time. It just finally overflowed the toilet. I wouldn't call that having a higher moral and ethical standard (I'd like to, but I won't) --- more like finally waking up to the fact that this guy is never going to get it. (And as I write this I sit here wearing a shirt with a picture of him winning Super Bowl XLIII, so who knows what that says about me. :) haha)

pfelix73
04-19-2010, 11:51 PM
You all know where I stand- See Goodell is an ... I say 0. NFL should have to prove all of this. No charges filed... nuff said.
:tt1

feltdizz
04-20-2010, 09:26 AM
How many times will someone say no charges means no suspension? It's the conduct and media damage.... Please stop repeating the same old line, it has been addressed, defined and explained by Goodell enough times for us all to understand it.

This is why some were viewed as hating Ben's behavior because they knew regardless of an actual crime being committed his conduct and negative attention would get a suspension from the league.

I also agree with the post explaining how the Rooneys operate. I labeled it "depthchartism" the appearance of morality when faced with a bad apple. When one is at the end of a contract or of little value due to a lack of talent or a wealth of talent behind said player the Rooneys will cut ties.

It sure seems like Holmes got away with a lot before we had enough.

feltdizz
04-20-2010, 09:34 AM
You all know where I stand- See Goodell is an ... I say 0. NFL should have to prove all of this. No charges filed... nuff said.
:tt1

you mean the 200 newspaper headlines and nonstop media bananza on ESPN, CNN, FOX, HLN, Huffington post, USAToday, Time, Newsweek, Wallstreet, NYTimes, POstgazette, Trib, NYPost and every major TV news... isn't enough proof for conduct unbecoming a football player?

Not saying I like Goodells policy but it is what it is.

pfelix73
04-20-2010, 09:35 AM
Again- as I get tired of saying this- Goodell needs to prove it, and he can't. Where's the proof? The police reports? come on, anything can be put in those things. They have been known to be biased.

Anyway, IF Ben gets suspended (our franchise QB) we can pretty much just kiss the season good bye already. And yea, I'll buy tickets to go see Dixon get crushed against say a Patriots team....

They are all a bunch of hypocrites. They want the league to have a certain image- which is fine- however- attending a game? That image is in the sewer. No way would I take my 7 year old to a game- too dangerous with all the drunks. And they want it to be a family affair- I'm laughing.......

:tt1

SteelAbility
04-20-2010, 10:09 AM
I'm hoping for something like 6 games with incentives to drop it two. Incentives like community service, counseling and the like.

I don't agree that we are done without Ben. If Troy and A. Smith are healthy, I believe we go 0.500 or slightly better in the Ben-suspended games. Dixon nearly (and should have) beat the Ravens on the road last year coming in totally cold. The Ravens are better than average. So we should be slightly better than average with Dixon at the helm.

feltdizz
04-20-2010, 10:11 AM
you can :HeadBanger :HeadBanger :HeadBanger all you want about Goodell proving a crime but you will just end up with a headache.

It's not about a crime... it's about conduct.

Keep up the good fight! :tt2

feltdizz
04-20-2010, 10:14 AM
I'm hoping for something like 6 games with incentives to drop it two. Incentives like community service, counseling and the like.

I don't agree that we are done without Ben. If Troy and A. Smith are healthy, I believe we go 0.500 or slightly better in the Ben-suspended games. Dixon nearly (and should have) beat the Ravens on the road last year coming in totally cold. The Ravens are better than average. So we should be slightly better than average with Dixon at the helm.

we can win games with Dixon... but I think we are forgetting about the loss of Holmes. That may have a bigger impact than we think when it comes to stretching the field and turning a 10 yard pass into a 40 yard gain.

BDESteel
04-20-2010, 11:14 AM
I predicted 6-8 weeks w/out pay, we'll see.

Ben's arrogance is catching up to him in a big way. I supported him on the field for the past year and a half even after getting blasted about saying he was arrogant but can't stand behind this.

He deserves way more than a fine and a couple games suspension.

ikestops85
04-20-2010, 11:34 AM
You all know where I stand- See Goodell is an ... I say 0. NFL should have to prove all of this. No charges filed... nuff said.
:tt1

you mean the 200 newspaper headlines and nonstop media bananza on ESPN, CNN, FOX, HLN, Huffington post, USAToday, Time, Newsweek, Wallstreet, NYTimes, POstgazette, Trib, NYPost and every major TV news... isn't enough proof for conduct unbecoming a football player?

Not saying I like Goodels policy but it is what it is.

So what you are saying is he deserves punishment because it garnered so much media attention? :wft I guess if Elin would have chased Tiger with a golf club the day after this happened to Ben we wouldn't be talking about any of this because Tiger would have gotten all the bad publicity.

I'm sorry but at some point in time Goodell is gonna have to realize he is not the moral authority for all the NFL players. The personal conduct clause would never hold up in court because it is so vague. What exactly constitutes "conduct detrimental to the NFL"? It could be anything.

I asked this question several times and nobody here has been able to give me an answer ... where do we draw the line? A criminal charge? an allegation? a messy divorce? adultery? a speeding ticket? a parking ticket? How about Tom and Giselle (sp?) inviting a third person into their bedroom and that person tells all? Is that bad pub for the NFL? How about if that third person is a guy? Does that change anyones mind?


I'm not a lawyer but this is why I think that the NFL and Goodell don't have a leg to stand on in suspending Ben. If Ben were to accept a major suspension (4 or more games) then to me, and most fans , he will be in essence pleading guilty to both the Vegas incident and the Georgia incident. Now you guys can try and wordsmith around it all you want but everyone will say that Ben was suspended for sexually assaulting 2 women. End of story.

SteelAbility
04-20-2010, 02:09 PM
I'm hoping for something like 6 games with incentives to drop it two. Incentives like community service, counseling and the like.

I don't agree that we are done without Ben. If Troy and A. Smith are healthy, I believe we go 0.500 or slightly better in the Ben-suspended games. Dixon nearly (and should have) beat the Ravens on the road last year coming in totally cold. The Ravens are better than average. So we should be slightly better than average with Dixon at the helm.

we can win games with Dixon... but I think we are forgetting about the loss of Holmes. That may have a bigger impact than we think when it comes to stretching the field and turning a 10 yard pass into a 40 yard gain.

Good point! I didn't think about that. But isn't Sweed going to save us? :roll: :P

NW Steeler
04-20-2010, 02:17 PM
It will not be 6-8 games. And if I were Ben, I would fight a suspension of that length. All indications thus far are that it will be a conditional suspension. So it may start at 4-6 and be reduced to 2-3. That is the scenario that I see unfolding.

papillon
04-20-2010, 02:31 PM
It will not be 6-8 games. And if I were Ben, I would fight a suspension of that length. All indications thus far are that it will be a conditional suspension. So it may start at 4-6 and be reduced to 2-3. That is the scenario that I see unfolding.


http://www.pittsburghsportstavern.com/forum/images/smilies/praying.gifhttp://www.pittsburghsportstavern.com/forum/images/smilies/praying.gifhttp://www.pittsburghsportstavern.com/forum/images/smilies/praying.gif

Pappy

SteelAbility
04-20-2010, 04:25 PM
It will not be 6-8 games. And if I were Ben, I would fight a suspension of that length. All indications thus far are that it will be a conditional suspension. So it may start at 4-6 and be reduced to 2-3. That is the scenario that I see unfolding.

*****
http://www.pittsburghsportstavern.com/forum/images/smilies/praying.gifhttp://www.pittsburghsportstavern.com/forum/images/smilies/praying.gifhttp://www.pittsburghsportstavern.com/forum/images/smilies/praying.gif
*****

Pappy

Ok, you've got that covered. I'll do the "Hail Mary's!" :wink:

cruzer8
04-20-2010, 09:42 PM
It may have started at 2 games had Steeler Nation not gone out of their way in an attempt to show the entire NFL how self-righteous and morally above everyone else they are. :roll: Because if you don't think Rog is taking into account that Ben's own fan base is calling for his head then you're crazy.

If we lose games that Ben is suspended for, the same people who were calling for him to be suspended will be complaining that we lost those games.

bostonsteeler
04-20-2010, 11:07 PM
2 games and a heavy fine. I agree with SD that any suspension hurts us as fans and hurts the team's chances for the playoffs. But I also think many of us feel a suspension of 2 games is at least called for in this case and we probably would be willing to take that potential hit to the record to see justice done.

I'm not many. There are others here as well who aren't many.

There should be no suspension.


Agreed. Fine his azz for being stupid.
But you can't suspend a guy for being on the wrong end of a he-said she-said, especially when there are sooo many inconsistencies in the "victim"'s story and absolutely no evidence could be obtained about any criminal activity. The guy is an idiot, but he isn't a criminal. You want to suspend him because the DA took it upon himself to grandstand?

SS Laser
04-20-2010, 11:27 PM
I predicted 6-8 weeks w/out pay, we'll see.

Ben's arrogance is catching up to him in a big way. I supported him on the field for the past year and a half even after getting blasted about saying he was arrogant but can't stand behind this.

He deserves way more than a fine and a couple games suspension.

Why? :?: