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View Full Version : Lawyer says Ben case has been reported one sided



SteelCrazy
04-16-2010, 11:32 PM
http://m.nbcsports.com/s/3030/proFootba ... prosecutor (http://m.nbcsports.com/s/3030/proFootballTalkDetails;jsessionid=8047FAC377FD75CA 979DEC900CD8AD2C?itemUriVal=feed%2323ELJczt9N2QJp5 S%2F0fj4ErPG9iYXGe&view=hdl&itemTitle=Attorney%20for%20Roethlisberger%20bodygu ard%20tees%20off%20on%20prosecutor)

stlrz d
04-16-2010, 11:48 PM
Florio just can't resist adding his little douchebag comments, can he?

sd steel
04-17-2010, 12:07 AM
Florio just can't resist adding his little douchebag comments, can he?
It's pretty obvious the lawyer is trying to protect his guy. The DA made the bodyguards out to be part of the scenario, and that could affect the off duty cops real jobs. At least someone feels the need to stand up and tell their side of the story.

SteelCrazy
04-17-2010, 12:09 AM
Florio just can't resist adding his little douchebag comments, can he?

He makes me sick...

Mister Pittsburgh
04-17-2010, 08:52 AM
Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

JAR
04-17-2010, 09:57 AM
Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

I'm not sure, but I thought I read that Ben and his lawyer can't say anything because of a possible civil suit.

Lebsteel
04-17-2010, 10:01 AM
Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

I'm not sure, but I thought I read that Ben and his lawyer can't say anything because of a possible civil suit.

If Ben did nothing wrong, if all the drunken sorority sisters tales were just that, then why not tell the truth? Is Ben a saint and taking all this humiliation even though he did NOTHING wrong? No, I don't think so and that is truly sad for this Steeler fan. I would LOVE to hear Ben, Colon and the police officers step up and speak the truth. I guess only time will tell.

JAR
04-17-2010, 10:04 AM
Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

I'm not sure, but I thought I read that Ben and his lawyer can't say anything because of a possible civil suit.

If Ben did nothing wrong, if all the drunken sorority sisters tales were just that, then why not tell the truth? Is Ben a saint and taking all this humiliation even though he did NOTHING wrong? No, I don't think so and that is truly sad for this Steeler fan. I would LOVE to hear Ben, Colon and the police officers step up and speak the truth. I guess only time will tell.

Like I said, I don't think Ben or his lawyer can speak about the case right now because there is still the possibility of a civil suit. Now the other guys can speak and we are hearing some things trickle out. They also hired a PI, he's probably still investigating.

Lebsteel
04-17-2010, 10:11 AM
Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

I'm not sure, but I thought I read that Ben and his lawyer can't say anything because of a possible civil suit.

If Ben did nothing wrong, if all the drunken sorority sisters tales were just that, then why not tell the truth? Is Ben a saint and taking all this humiliation even though he did NOTHING wrong? No, I don't think so and that is truly sad for this Steeler fan. I would LOVE to hear Ben, Colon and the police officers step up and speak the truth. I guess only time will tell.

Like I said, I don't think Ben or his lawyer can speak about the case right now because there is still the possibility of a civil suit. Now the other guys can speak and we are hearing some things trickle out. They also hired a PI, he's probably still investigating.
OK, the possibility of a civil suit is out there. But, IF you did nothing wrong, why not get the truth out there now? What will it hurt to speak the truth? Your story will not change if you are speaking the truth right now. The only things I have heard trickle out are that the police officers are being investigated for morals violations. I am truly not being sarcastic or challenging what you are saying, I simply don't understand why Ben's lawyer will not speak the truth right now. Maybe I am just a little impatient and my desire for the Steelers and Ben (the face of the franchise) to be the best team/person, on the field and off the field, runs a little too high. :tt1

Shawn
04-17-2010, 10:44 AM
It serves no real productive purpose for Ben to tell his side of the story at this point. First, because he probably did do something wrong...just probably not rape. Second, attacking the girl at this juncture would make him look like more of a douchebag.

So, what is he supposed to say..."Yeah, she was throwing it on me all night, DTF this...i'll give you a birthday BJ that. So, I said what the %^&* I'll give this drunk girl a spin. Yeah, she was trashed. Yeah I fed her drunk #$% shots. Was she sober enough to give proper consent? Hell nah. So, I took her in the bathroom and took care of business. She didn't fight it but she could barely stand. Then afterwards her soho buddies decide to get all "emotional" and express "concern". We all know what that's about...jealous she got a taste of little Ben. Next thing you know I'm being told she said I raped her. What the $%^&. I never raped that bytch."

That right there guys is a best case scenerio...seriously. Do you really want Ben on national television telling what "really happened"? I don't.

Lebsteel
04-17-2010, 10:48 AM
It serves no real productive purpose for Ben to tell his side of the story at this point. First, because he probably did do something wrong...just probably not rape. Second, attacking the girl at this juncture would make him look like more of a douchebag.

So, what is he supposed to say..."Yeah, she was throwing it on me all night, DTF this...i'll give you a birthday BJ that. So, I said what the %^&* I'll give this drunk girl a spin. Yeah, she was trashed. Yeah I fed her drunk #$% shots. Was she sober enough to give proper consent? Hell nah. So, I took her in the bathroom and took care of business. She didn't fight it but she could barely stand. Then afterwards her soho buddies decide to get all "emotional" and express "concern". We all know what that's about...jealous she got a taste of little Ben. Next thing you know I'm being told she said I raped her. What the $%^&. I never raped that bytch."

That right there guys is a best case scenerio...seriously. Do you really want Ben on national television telling what "really happened"? I don't.
That's my point Shawn. If he did NOTHING wrong, then he or his lawyer should be speaking out, but, he probably can't precisely because of what you said above. He probably behaved in a manner that is despicable and can't admit to that. For some posters to say he has done NOTHING wrong is a little naive and just as bad as the media who are making things up to prove a point.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-17-2010, 10:59 AM
Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

I'm not sure, but I thought I read that Ben and his lawyer can't say anything because of a possible civil suit.

If Ben did nothing wrong, if all the drunken sorority sisters tales were just that, then why not tell the truth? Is Ben a saint and taking all this humiliation even though he did NOTHING wrong? No, I don't think so and that is truly sad for this Steeler fan. I would LOVE to hear Ben, Colon and the police officers step up and speak the truth. I guess only time will tell.

Like I said, I don't think Ben or his lawyer can speak about the case right now because there is still the possibility of a civil suit. Now the other guys can speak and we are hearing some things trickle out. They also hired a PI, he's probably still investigating.

Well, if her reason for not wanting to pursue charges is true, the not wanting her name out there and not wanting to go through it, then she won't go the civil route either. Andrea McNulty's name is out there, as is the supposed tale she has told of her encounter with Ben. Personally, and obviously this is just my speculation, but I would guess there was some sort of agreement made by the two sides on or around March 17. Whatever that entailed is anyones guess. But who knows, maybe part of that agreement was Ben and his lawyers can't say anything about that night.

Shawn
04-17-2010, 10:59 AM
It serves no real productive purpose for Ben to tell his side of the story at this point. First, because he probably did do something wrong...just probably not rape. Second, attacking the girl at this juncture would make him look like more of a douchebag.

So, what is he supposed to say..."Yeah, she was throwing it on me all night, DTF this...i'll give you a birthday BJ that. So, I said what the %^&* I'll give this drunk girl a spin. Yeah, she was trashed. Yeah I fed her drunk #$% shots. Was she sober enough to give proper consent? Hell nah. So, I took her in the bathroom and took care of business. She didn't fight it but she could barely stand. Then afterwards her soho buddies decide to get all "emotional" and express "concern". We all know what that's about...jealous she got a taste of little Ben. Next thing you know I'm being told she said I raped her. What the $%^&. I never raped that bytch."

That right there guys is a best case scenerio...seriously. Do you really want Ben on national television telling what "really happened"? I don't.
That's my point Shawn. If he did NOTHING wrong, then he or his lawyer should be speaking out, but, he probably can't precisely because of what you said above. He probably behaved in a manner that is despicable and can't admit to that. For some posters to say he has done NOTHING wrong is a little naive and just as bad as the media who are making things up to prove a point.

There is a reason that there are laws on the books about having sex with an intoxicated individual. If she was a .2 at the hospital hours after her last drink...what state of mind was this girl in the night that she had "consensual" sex. I'm sorry but a woman that drunk can't give consent. Essentially Ben did rape that girl just not in the way we think of rape. But, those cases are hard to prosecute and are rarely prosecuted.

Was this girl at fault...absolutely. She showed horrific judgement by getting that trashed and chasing Ben around all night. Was Ben at fault? Oh yes...having sex with a girl that has a problem standing? That's an issue.

I know some still stand by the idea that Ben didn't have sex with her. We all know that is ridiculous and taking Ben support to a new insane level.

Shawn
04-17-2010, 11:01 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":38nkufig]Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

I'm not sure, but I thought I read that Ben and his lawyer can't say anything because of a possible civil suit.

If Ben did nothing wrong, if all the drunken sorority sisters tales were just that, then why not tell the truth? Is Ben a saint and taking all this humiliation even though he did NOTHING wrong? No, I don't think so and that is truly sad for this Steeler fan. I would LOVE to hear Ben, Colon and the police officers step up and speak the truth. I guess only time will tell.

Like I said, I don't think Ben or his lawyer can speak about the case right now because there is still the possibility of a civil suit. Now the other guys can speak and we are hearing some things trickle out. They also hired a PI, he's probably still investigating.

Well, if her reason for not wanting to pursue charges is true, the not wanting her name out there and not wanting to go through it, then she won't go the civil route either. Andrea McNulty's name is out there, as is the supposed tale she has told of her encounter with Ben. Personally, and obviously this is just my speculation, but I would guess there was some sort of agreement made by the two sides on or around March 17. Whatever that entailed is anyones guess. But who knows, maybe part of that agreement was Ben and his lawyers can't say anything about that night.[/quote:38nkufig]

She doesn't want her name out there because she was at fault that night too. She was acting like a drunk ho. Ben was very wrong as well. He paid her...made this "go away" and this portion is over. There won't be a civil suit.

JAR
04-17-2010, 11:02 AM
Lawyer For Ben's Bodyguard Defends Client


They claim Ben Roethlisberger and his friends worked together in the alleged sexual assault of a 20-year-old college student.

The allegations come from hundreds of pages of documents released by authorities in Georgia.

This latest account comes from deep within the 500 pages of case files released by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Detailed are two supposed unwanted sexual encounters between Roethlisberger and a 21-year-old Georgia woman who reportedly told others that she drove a drunken Roethlisberger home and that he slammed the door behind her and pulled his pants down.

In another encounter, he is said to have lured her into a bedroom and put his hand up her skirt.

The problem with the information is that it is third-hand and the woman declined to speak with police.

"We do not prosecute morals, we prosecute crimes," District Attorney Fred Bright said on Monday.

These new details were released along with others about Roethlisberger on the early morning of March 5 when he was accused of sexual assault by a 20-year-old co-ed.

In a statement written the morning after, the victim says Roethlisberger cornered her in a bathroom and wouldn't let her leave.

"I still said, 'No, this is not OK,' and then he had sex with me. He said it was OK. He then left without saying anything."

But this differs from her initial statement to a police officer.

"But he said quote, 'Did he rape you?' and her response was, 'No,'" Bright said. "Next, the first officer asked did they have sex and she said, 'Well, I'm not sure.'"

"If they believed her or believed this story, they would have filed they did not so they did not file," Michael Santicola, an attorney for the Coraopolis police officer who was serving as a security guard for Roethlisberger that night, said.

Santicola disputes several accounts in the police files, including one from a friend of the victim who says Roethlisberger exposed himself on his way to the bathroom where the alleged assault occurred.

Sheehan: "What about Ben having his pants down?"

Santicola: "Absolutely, untrue. Not one single shred of truth in that statement."

Sheehan: "He didn't walk down the hallway with his pants down?"

Santicola: "Absolutely not."

Steelers President Art Rooney II said the team and the league will discipline Roethlisberger but give him a chance to redeem himself as quarterback of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Rooney called certain allegations revealed earlier in the week at the DA's press conference "conjecture" and said the essential point the Steelers took away is that Ben was not charged.

feltdizz
04-17-2010, 11:03 AM
It serves no real productive purpose for Ben to tell his side of the story at this point. First, because he probably did do something wrong...just probably not rape. Second, attacking the girl at this juncture would make him look like more of a douchebag.

So, what is he supposed to say..."Yeah, she was throwing it on me all night, DTF this...i'll give you a birthday BJ that. So, I said what the %^&* I'll give this drunk girl a spin. Yeah, she was trashed. Yeah I fed her drunk #$% shots. Was she sober enough to give proper consent? Hell nah. So, I took her in the bathroom and took care of business. She didn't fight it but she could barely stand. Then afterwards her soho buddies decide to get all "emotional" and express "concern". We all know what that's about...jealous she got a taste of little Ben. Next thing you know I'm being told she said I raped her. What the $%^&. I never raped that bytch."

That right there guys is a best case scenerio...seriously. Do you really want Ben on national television telling what "really happened"? I don't.
That's my point Shawn. If he did NOTHING wrong, then he or his lawyer should be speaking out, but, he probably can't precisely because of what you said above. He probably behaved in a manner that is despicable and can't admit to that. For some posters to say he has done NOTHING wrong is a little naive and just as bad as the media who are making things up to prove a point.

:Bow
I don't see why Ben or his lawyer or another member of Ben's camp can't refute these allegations right now. I believe it is because Ben wasn't a boy scout on that night.

We have all been in a bar or at a party where there is a horn dog of a girl down to do whatever... there will be no stories of rose petals and wine by candle light..

the details of a dank bathroom, shots in a po-dunk bar and a fake VIP area with a sloppy drunk DTF 20 year old can't be shined... it's sh!t anyway you try to flip it.

JAR
04-17-2010, 11:10 AM
It serves no real productive purpose for Ben to tell his side of the story at this point. First, because he probably did do something wrong...just probably not rape. Second, attacking the girl at this juncture would make him look like more of a douchebag.

So, what is he supposed to say..."Yeah, she was throwing it on me all night, DTF this...i'll give you a birthday BJ that. So, I said what the %^&* I'll give this drunk girl a spin. Yeah, she was trashed. Yeah I fed her drunk #$% shots. Was she sober enough to give proper consent? Hell nah. So, I took her in the bathroom and took care of business. She didn't fight it but she could barely stand. Then afterwards her soho buddies decide to get all "emotional" and express "concern". We all know what that's about...jealous she got a taste of little Ben. Next thing you know I'm being told she said I raped her. What the $%^&. I never raped that bytch."

That right there guys is a best case scenerio...seriously. Do you really want Ben on national television telling what "really happened"? I don't.
That's my point Shawn. If he did NOTHING wrong, then he or his lawyer should be speaking out, but, he probably can't precisely because of what you said above. He probably behaved in a manner that is despicable and can't admit to that. For some posters to say he has done NOTHING wrong is a little naive and just as bad as the media who are making things up to prove a point.

:Bow
I don't see why Ben or his lawyer or another member of Ben's camp can't refute these allegations right now. I believe it is because Ben wasn't a boy scout on that night.

We have all been in a bar or at a party where there is a horn dog of a girl down to do whatever... there will be no stories of rose petals and wine by candle light..

the details of a dank bathroom, shots in a po-dunk bar and a fake VIP area with a sloppy drunk DTF 20 year old can't be shined... it's sh!t anyway you try to flip it.

It's starting to come out..

Santicola disputes several accounts in the police files, including one from a friend of the victim who says Roethlisberger exposed himself on his way to the bathroom where the alleged assault occurred.

Sheehan: "What about Ben having his pants down?"

Santicola: "Absolutely, untrue. Not one single shred of truth in that statement."

Sheehan: "He didn't walk down the hallway with his pants down?"

Santicola: "Absolutely not."

Shawn
04-17-2010, 11:15 AM
This is the second accusation that Ben likes to expose himself. It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if it were true. Also I don't believe the PO is being as honest as he needs to be in this situation.

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 11:28 AM
For someone who is in the medical profession, where evidence, data, test results, etc are of the utmost importance...you sure are making a lot of assumptions here Shawn.

You may ultimately be right about some of them...but I'm just sayin'....

Shawn
04-17-2010, 11:49 AM
For someone who is in the medical profession, where evidence, data, test results, etc are of the utmost importance...you sure are making a lot of assumptions here Shawn.

You may ultimately be right about some of them...but I'm just sayin'....

We are not convicting Ben of a crime. When this was a criminal case...I supported Ben to the fullest? Why? Because, I didn't believe there was enough evidence to put him in prison.

But, this is no longer criminal...this is court of public opinion and that is based on preponderance of evidence. First, the girl had superficial vaginal abrasions and bleeding. Abrasions in the vaginal area quickly heal because of the robust blood supply. If it had even happened 12 hours before I would know as an examiner. An abrasion that happened 2 hours ago looks different from one that happened 12 hours ago...especially in the vaginal area. Bleeding indicates very recent trauma. We also know she tested at a .2 and could barely write her name on the police reports. This was hours after her last drink and the incident.

Since, I don't need without a reasonable doubt evidence to convict Ben of being a douche I can say that the evidence points to a very drunk chick having sex...probably rough sex VERY recently. Reading all the stories...I believe that person to be Ben. Is it possible she eff'd some other guy right before...then blamed Ben? Sure...but it's unlikely. It's more likely that Ben had sex with a very drunk girl.

So lets go over the douchebaggery list...

-Ben buys shots for girls that are not old enough to drink and are probably too drunk to have more.
-Evidence points towards Ben having sex with a girl not sober enough to give consent.
-Public indecency...sex in a public restroom is a crime.

Anything else is just icing on the cake. That right there is enough to be upset with Ben.

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 11:56 AM
For someone who is in the medical profession, where evidence, data, test results, etc are of the utmost importance...you sure are making a lot of assumptions here Shawn.

You may ultimately be right about some of them...but I'm just sayin'....

We are not convicting Ben of a crime. When this was a criminal case...I supported Ben to the fullest? Why? Because, I didn't believe there was enough evidence to put him in prison.

But, this is no longer criminal...this is court of public opinion and that is based on preponderance of evidence. First, the girl had superficial vaginal abrasions and bleeding. Abrasions in the vaginal area quickly heal because of the robust blood supply. If it had even happened 12 hours before I would know as an examiner. An abrasion that happened 2 hours ago looks different from one that happened 12 hours ago...especially in the vaginal area. Bleeding indicates very recent trauma. We also know she tested at a .2 and could barely write her name on the police reports. This was hours after her last drink and the incident.

Since, I don't need without a reasonable doubt evidence to convict Ben of being a douche I can say that the evidence points to a very drunk chick having sex...probably rough sex VERY recently. Reading all the stories...I believe that person to be Ben. Is it possible she eff'd some other guy right before...then blamed Ben? Sure...but it's unlikely. It's more likely that Ben had sex with a very drunk girl.

So lets go over the douchebaggery list...

-Ben buys shots for girls that are not old enough to drink and are probably too drunk to have more.
-Evidence points towards Ben having sex with a girl not sober enough to give consent.
-Public indecency...sex in a public restroom is a crime.

Anything else is just icing on the cake. That right there is enough to be upset with Ben.

It's not up to Ben to check IDs of people he's buying drinks for. That's what the people at the door are there for.

There was not enough DNA evidence to make any kind of a match. So not only could they not prove rape, they could not even prove that Ben had sex with her. Even if he used a condom there would have been enough hair and skin cells containing DNA left behind.

Your "evidence" is circumstantial at best...and it's all the DA had as well...hence no charges. :)

PS - I've not read anything with DETAILED info on vaginal abrasions...just that they were present. So there's nothing out there stating how recent they were.

You're entitled to your opinion based on circumstantial evidence just as much as I'm entitled to call you out on it. :)

PPS - The court of public opinion is comprised primarily of people who's only claim to fame is having a photo of them appear on http://www.peopleofwalmart.com. ;)

snarky
04-17-2010, 12:18 PM
The one thing I don't understand about Ben's story is this bit where he told his friend that she fell and he said she was too drunk to continue. If that's the case why didn't he put her into a cab or at least get somebody from the club to go back there and make sure she is OK. I mean, it sounds like he just left her there. That makes no sense to me. If he had the good sense to 'call it off' after she fell -- why didn't he have the good sense to make sure she didn't fall down again and potentially crack her skull.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-17-2010, 12:43 PM
The one thing I don't understand about Ben's story is this bit where he told his friend that she fell and he said she was too drunk to continue. If that's the case why didn't he put her into a cab or at least get somebody from the club to go back there and make sure she is OK. I mean, it sounds like he just left her there. That makes no sense to me. If he had the good sense to 'call it off' after she fell -- why didn't he have the good sense to make sure she didn't fall down again and potentially crack her skull.

Snark - What have we read about what happened after she fell? I think I've read somewhere that he helped her up, but no way I can remember where. I might have helped her back to the table, like you're saying, but maybe she shrugged him off and said, "I'm OK".

Come to think of it, I can't recall reading much about after she went back to the bathroom. Did she come back alone? Where was Ben? Did she sit at the table and drink more? I can't remember what the DTF chick statements said about that.

Where's Abe Zapruder when you need him? :D

Shawn
04-17-2010, 12:49 PM
[quote="stlrz d":2szybwha]For someone who is in the medical profession, where evidence, data, test results, etc are of the utmost importance...you sure are making a lot of assumptions here Shawn.

You may ultimately be right about some of them...but I'm just sayin'....

We are not convicting Ben of a crime. When this was a criminal case...I supported Ben to the fullest? Why? Because, I didn't believe there was enough evidence to put him in prison.

But, this is no longer criminal...this is court of public opinion and that is based on preponderance of evidence. First, the girl had superficial vaginal abrasions and bleeding. Abrasions in the vaginal area quickly heal because of the robust blood supply. If it had even happened 12 hours before I would know as an examiner. An abrasion that happened 2 hours ago looks different from one that happened 12 hours ago...especially in the vaginal area. Bleeding indicates very recent trauma. We also know she tested at a .2 and could barely write her name on the police reports. This was hours after her last drink and the incident.

Since, I don't need without a reasonable doubt evidence to convict Ben of being a douche I can say that the evidence points to a very drunk chick having sex...probably rough sex VERY recently. Reading all the stories...I believe that person to be Ben. Is it possible she eff'd some other guy right before...then blamed Ben? Sure...but it's unlikely. It's more likely that Ben had sex with a very drunk girl.

So lets go over the douchebaggery list...

-Ben buys shots for girls that are not old enough to drink and are probably too drunk to have more.
-Evidence points towards Ben having sex with a girl not sober enough to give consent.
-Public indecency...sex in a public restroom is a crime.

Anything else is just icing on the cake. That right there is enough to be upset with Ben.

It's not up to Ben to check IDs of people he's buying drinks for. That's what the people at the door are there for.

There was not enough DNA evidence to make any kind of a match. So not only could they not prove rape, they could not even prove that Ben had sex with her. Even if he used a condom there would have been enough hair and skin cells containing DNA left behind.

Your "evidence" is circumstantial at best...and it's all the DA had as well...hence no charges. :)

PS - I've not read anything with DETAILED info on vaginal abrasions...just that they were present. So there's nothing out there stating how recent they were.

You're entitled to your opinion based on circumstantial evidence just as much as I'm entitled to call you out on it. :)

PPS - The court of public opinion is comprised primarily of people who's only claim to fame is having a photo of them appear on http://www.peopleofwalmart.com. ;)[/quote:2szybwha]

You are still stuck on criminal conviction evidence. I know there isn't enough for a criminal conviction. I'm saying the evidence leads me to believe that more likely than not that Ben had sex with a girl too drunk to give consent.

When talking about DNA its' tricky. Most of the time it is left behind. But, it's much easier to get DNA if semen is left behind. Did Ben have sex to completion...did he wear a condom. Skin and hair can be left behind but it's not always...not even close to always. You have to also take into account the skill of the ER physician that night to collect evidence. Some of us are well versed in this area and some of us are not. There are many violent rapes where there isn't a shred of DNA evidence left behind.

There was male DNA just not enough to do a match. There is evidence of very recent intercourse. There are the stories of that night. I'm not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that they believe Ben didn't touch that girl.

PS...there was note of vaginal bleeding. Did that occur from the day before? Come on. And while I didn't read the physician's note we are required to document if we believe those abrasions are old or new.

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 12:51 PM
[quote="stlrz d":1z1fihe5]For someone who is in the medical profession, where evidence, data, test results, etc are of the utmost importance...you sure are making a lot of assumptions here Shawn.

You may ultimately be right about some of them...but I'm just sayin'....

We are not convicting Ben of a crime. When this was a criminal case...I supported Ben to the fullest? Why? Because, I didn't believe there was enough evidence to put him in prison.

But, this is no longer criminal...this is court of public opinion and that is based on preponderance of evidence. First, the girl had superficial vaginal abrasions and bleeding. Abrasions in the vaginal area quickly heal because of the robust blood supply. If it had even happened 12 hours before I would know as an examiner. An abrasion that happened 2 hours ago looks different from one that happened 12 hours ago...especially in the vaginal area. Bleeding indicates very recent trauma. We also know she tested at a .2 and could barely write her name on the police reports. This was hours after her last drink and the incident.

Since, I don't need without a reasonable doubt evidence to convict Ben of being a douche I can say that the evidence points to a very drunk chick having sex...probably rough sex VERY recently. Reading all the stories...I believe that person to be Ben. Is it possible she eff'd some other guy right before...then blamed Ben? Sure...but it's unlikely. It's more likely that Ben had sex with a very drunk girl.

So lets go over the douchebaggery list...

-Ben buys shots for girls that are not old enough to drink and are probably too drunk to have more.
-Evidence points towards Ben having sex with a girl not sober enough to give consent.
-Public indecency...sex in a public restroom is a crime.

Anything else is just icing on the cake. That right there is enough to be upset with Ben.

It's not up to Ben to check IDs of people he's buying drinks for. That's what the people at the door are there for.

There was not enough DNA evidence to make any kind of a match. So not only could they not prove rape, they could not even prove that Ben had sex with her. Even if he used a condom there would have been enough hair and skin cells containing DNA left behind.

Your "evidence" is circumstantial at best...and it's all the DA had as well...hence no charges. :)

PS - I've not read anything with DETAILED info on vaginal abrasions...just that they were present. So there's nothing out there stating how recent they were.

You're entitled to your opinion based on circumstantial evidence just as much as I'm entitled to call you out on it. :)

PPS - The court of public opinion is comprised primarily of people who's only claim to fame is having a photo of them appear on http://www.peopleofwalmart.com. ;)

You are still stuck on criminal conviction evidence. I know there isn't enough for a criminal conviction. I'm saying the evidence leads me to believe that more likely than not that Ben had sex with a girl too drunk to give consent.

When talking about DNA its' tricky. Most of the time it is left behind. But, it's much easier to get DNA if semen is left behind. Did Ben have sex to completion...did he wear a condom. Skin and hair can be left behind but it's not always...not even close to always. You have to also take into account the skill of the ER physician that night to collect evidence. Some of us are well versed in this area and some of us are not. There are many violent rapes where there isn't a shred of DNA evidence left behind.

There was male DNA just not enough to do a match. There is evidence of very recent intercourse. There are the stories of that night. I'm not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that they believe Ben didn't touch that girl.[/quote:1z1fihe5]

I've never claimed that Ben didn't touch her.

But I'm also not making the leap from "touched her" to "raped her".

Shawn
04-17-2010, 12:53 PM
Ahh ok. Well, if he had sex with her...and she was too intoxicated to give consent...he raped her.

feltdizz
04-17-2010, 12:53 PM
When you are worth $100 mill, have a civil trial still open and it's obvious any accusation or incidet with a chick will be front page news... It's your responsibility to protect yourself, check ID's, Adams apples, smell test and anything else that can get you in trouble.

If you want something done right do it yourself.

Why the hell would Ben or anyone with his money and fame let a college bar manage his accountability? Everyone but the village idiot knows an 18 and up bar will have underaged chicks drinking in it.

I could see if it was an upscale bar where the age limit was 25 but a Podunk college bar with 18 year olds in it? Only a fool would think everyone drinking is of age.

Even if she is 23 and looks like Halle Berry, if she is sloppy drunk and I'm rich with a civil suit she has to GTFOVIP... but I would definitely get her number and wine and dine and try to smash at a later date.

snarky
04-17-2010, 12:59 PM
The one thing I don't understand about Ben's story is this bit where he told his friend that she fell and he said she was too drunk to continue. If that's the case why didn't he put her into a cab or at least get somebody from the club to go back there and make sure she is OK. I mean, it sounds like he just left her there. That makes no sense to me. If he had the good sense to 'call it off' after she fell -- why didn't he have the good sense to make sure she didn't fall down again and potentially crack her skull.

Snark - What have we read about what happened after she fell? I think I've read somewhere that he helped her up, but no way I can remember where. I might have helped her back to the table, like you're saying, but maybe she shrugged him off and said, "I'm OK".

Come to think of it, I can't recall reading much about after she went back to the bathroom. Did she come back alone? Where was Ben? Did she sit at the table and drink more? I can't remember what the DTF chick statements said about that.

Where's Abe Zapruder when you need him? :D

The statements provided from her and her friends indicate that he came out first and then she came out crying. The accuser says that after they had sex he left without saying anything. And according to the statements provided by the accuser and her friends, they left the bar immediately and went to the first police car they saw.

There's nothing from Ben's side other than this bit where he supposedly stopped when she fell. There's no version of events for what happened next.

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 12:59 PM
Ahh ok. Well, if he had sex with her...and she was too intoxicated to give consent...he raped her.

:)

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 01:01 PM
The one thing I don't understand about Ben's story is this bit where he told his friend that she fell and he said she was too drunk to continue. If that's the case why didn't he put her into a cab or at least get somebody from the club to go back there and make sure she is OK. I mean, it sounds like he just left her there. That makes no sense to me. If he had the good sense to 'call it off' after she fell -- why didn't he have the good sense to make sure she didn't fall down again and potentially crack her skull.

Snark - What have we read about what happened after she fell? I think I've read somewhere that he helped her up, but no way I can remember where. I might have helped her back to the table, like you're saying, but maybe she shrugged him off and said, "I'm OK".

Come to think of it, I can't recall reading much about after she went back to the bathroom. Did she come back alone? Where was Ben? Did she sit at the table and drink more? I can't remember what the DTF chick statements said about that.

Where's Abe Zapruder when you need him? :D

The statements provided from her and her friends indicate that he came out first and then she came out crying. The accuser says that after they had sex he left without saying anything. And according to the statements provided by the accuser and her friends, they left the bar immediately and went to the first police car they saw.

There's nothing from Ben's side other than this bit where he supposedly stopped when she fell. There's no version of events for what happened next.

Why show your cards if you're in the works of a civil suit of your own?

snarky
04-17-2010, 01:15 PM
Why show your cards if you're in the works of a civil suit of your own?

Not sure I'm getting your point. All I'm saying is that his story, as much as it is known so far, doesn't make sense to me. They started to mess around, she fell and hit her head and so he decided they better stop. But then there is nothing along the lines of "I tried to get her into a cab to go home" or "I tried to find her friends so they could make sure she was OK". And there are no statements from 3rd parties that he did anything along those lines. So as it stands now, I don't buy it.

Shawn
04-17-2010, 01:29 PM
Why show your cards if you're in the works of a civil suit of your own?

Not sure I'm getting your point. All I'm saying is that his story, as much as it is known so far, doesn't make sense to me. They started to mess around, she fell and hit her head and so he decided they better stop. But then there is nothing along the lines of "I tried to get her into a cab to go home" or "I tried to find her friends so they could make sure she was OK". And there are no statements from 3rd parties that he did anything along those lines. So as it stands now, I don't buy it.

I have to agree...while I'm not completely buying the other sides story either...Ben's and Co make little sense. I would be absolutely shocked if he didn't have sex with that girl. The fact that we know how drunk she was makes this criminal. While he might escape charges he shouldn't escape the wrath of the league.

birtikidis
04-17-2010, 01:37 PM
Shawn, I only got to where you said that he's being tried in the court of public opinion. I absolutely agree.
so far we've only heard the prosecution (the media)
court is now in recess
coming up we'll hear the defense.
can we wait to pass judgement until all the sides have spoken?
Ben can't speak with the possibility of the civil suit because, ANYTHING he says can and will be used against him. so for him it's best to not say anything. after emotions die down, all of the alleged "facts" come out, ben will speak. at that point people will be able to listen with a cool head and make the decision as to how they feel about ben.

birtikidis
04-17-2010, 01:40 PM
Why show your cards if you're in the works of a civil suit of your own?
i assume you mean why the girls lawyers showed her cards... if i'm wrong disregard.
but she's showing all her cards because she wants to put as much pressure as she can on Ben. make him look bad. have people convict him in the court of public opinion. put his job, lifestyle and relationships on the line. She learned from the Mcnulty case. don't let it sit. get it out there as fast as possible with as much information as you can. and then see if he squirms.

snarky
04-17-2010, 01:44 PM
Not sure how the possibility of a civil suit would prevent Ben from speaking. It's not like he is immune from testifying in a civil case. Now I can understand that he and his lawyer might want to take some time and decide what his 'story' is. But if he has done nothing wrong and there aren't going to be criminal charges, I don't see why he wouldn't want his version of what happened out there.

snarky
04-17-2010, 01:48 PM
She learned from the Mcnulty case. don't let it sit. get it out there as fast as possible with as much information as you can. and then see if he squirms.

You have evidence that she knew about the McNulty case?

birtikidis
04-17-2010, 02:06 PM
She learned from the Mcnulty case. don't let it sit. get it out there as fast as possible with as much information as you can. and then see if he squirms.

You have evidence that she knew about the McNulty case?
she knew who ben was on sight. so i assume she knows something about him. hell she knew bens height and weight direct from the media guide. and unless she's been hiding under a rock, she probably had heard something during the past year about the millionaire football star who owns a mansion 40 minutes away from campus.

birtikidis
04-17-2010, 02:07 PM
She learned from the Mcnulty case. don't let it sit. get it out there as fast as possible with as much information as you can. and then see if he squirms.

You have evidence that she knew about the McNulty case?
do you have HARD evidence that GA girl even had sex with ben?

snarky
04-17-2010, 02:14 PM
She learned from the Mcnulty case. don't let it sit. get it out there as fast as possible with as much information as you can. and then see if he squirms.

You have evidence that she knew about the McNulty case?
do you have HARD evidence that GA girl even had sex with ben?

Her statement that they had sex + vaginal bruising + male DNA + him saying "contact that was not consummated (ie he didn't blow his load). I guess none of that would constitute hard evidence that they had sex but it certainly makes it a reasonable conclusion.

And back to my previous question: do you have evidence that she was aware of the McNulty case?

birtikidis
04-17-2010, 02:21 PM
She learned from the Mcnulty case. don't let it sit. get it out there as fast as possible with as much information as you can. and then see if he squirms.

You have evidence that she knew about the McNulty case?
do you have HARD evidence that GA girl even had sex with ben?

Her statement that they had sex + vaginal bruising + male DNA + him saying "contact that was not consummated (ie he didn't blow his load). I guess none of that would constitute hard evidence that they had sex but it certainly makes it a reasonable conclusion.

And back to my previous question: do you have evidence that she was aware of the McNulty case?
so the fact that she had sex with SOMEONE automatically means it was ben? there is no HARD evidence. even the girl said upon questioning that he didn't rape her. and she wasn't even SURE if they HAD sex. you'd think she'd have an idea.
and no, there is no way to know for certain if she knew of McNulty. but I'm just using the same line of reasoning as you.

snarky
04-17-2010, 02:29 PM
She learned from the Mcnulty case. don't let it sit. get it out there as fast as possible with as much information as you can. and then see if he squirms.

You have evidence that she knew about the McNulty case?
do you have HARD evidence that GA girl even had sex with ben?

Her statement that they had sex + vaginal bruising + male DNA + him saying "contact that was not consummated (ie he didn't blow his load). I guess none of that would constitute hard evidence that they had sex but it certainly makes it a reasonable conclusion.

And back to my previous question: do you have evidence that she was aware of the McNulty case?
so the fact that she had sex with SOMEONE automatically means it was ben? there is no HARD evidence. even the girl said upon questioning that he didn't rape her. and she wasn't even SURE if they HAD sex. you'd think she'd have an idea.
and no, there is no way to know for certain if she knew of McNulty. but I'm just using the same line of reasoning as you.

As I read it, her exact statement initially was "No, I'm not sure what happened". And again this was when she was drunk. She revised her statement the next day (after she was sober) that they did have sex. Not sure if you have ever been so drunk that you don't really remember everything you did until sober up - it's happened to me so I'm inclined to believe her statement the next day has at least some credibility.

And no, you are not using the same reasoning as me since you can provide not one statement by anyone involved or any piece of physical evidence to support the notion that she was aware of the McNulty case when they approached the police car that night or even when she made her second statement. You are more or less pulling that out of thin air.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me as to whether or not they had sex that night but you are definitely not using the same line of reasoning when you are claiming she 'learned' from the McNulty case since there is not one shred of evidence that indicates she was aware of it.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-17-2010, 02:36 PM
You have evidence that she knew about the McNulty case?
do you have HARD evidence that GA girl even had sex with ben?

Her statement that they had sex + vaginal bruising + male DNA + him saying "contact that was not consummated (ie he didn't blow his load). I guess none of that would constitute hard evidence that they had sex but it certainly makes it a reasonable conclusion.

And back to my previous question: do you have evidence that she was aware of the McNulty case?
so the fact that she had sex with SOMEONE automatically means it was ben? there is no HARD evidence. even the girl said upon questioning that he didn't rape her. and she wasn't even SURE if they HAD sex. you'd think she'd have an idea.
and no, there is no way to know for certain if she knew of McNulty. but I'm just using the same line of reasoning as you.

As I read it, her exact statement initially was "No, I'm not sure what happened". And again this was when she was drunk. She revised her statement the next day (after she was sober) that they did have sex. Not sure if you have ever been so drunk that you don't really remember everything you did until sober up - it's happened to me so I'm inclined to believe her statement the next day has at least some credibility.

And no, you are not using the same reasoning as me since you can provide not one statement by anyone involved or any piece of physical evidence to support the notion that she was aware of the McNulty case when they approached the police car that night or even when she made her second statement. You are more or less pulling that out of thin air.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me as to whether or not they had sex that night but you are definitely not using the same line of reasoning when you are claiming she 'learned' from the McNulty case since there is not one shred of evidence that indicates she was aware of it.

People can't have it both ways - they're trying to say she was too drunk off her a$$ to consent, but at the same time they're saying her statements can be considered the epitome of reliability. There's a reason the DA didn't prosecute - she was an unreliable witness (remember he said that if he had a case he would have prosecuted regardless of whether the DTF chick and her family wanted him to or not - a crime would have been committed, and his duty would have been to prosecute).

If someone does insist on using her initial statment as a Rosetta stone to the truth, I'd point out, as I read it, her initial statement was,"NO" in direct response to Sgt. Blash's question "Did he rape you?". Puts a different spin on things, I believe.

birtikidis
04-17-2010, 02:52 PM
As I read it, her exact statement initially was "No, I'm not sure what happened". And again this was when she was drunk. She revised her statement the next day (after she was sober) that they did have sex. Not sure if you have ever been so drunk that you don't really remember everything you did until sober up - it's happened to me so I'm inclined to believe her statement the next day has at least some credibility.

And no, you are not using the same reasoning as me since you can provide not one statement by anyone involved or any piece of physical evidence to support the notion that she was aware of the McNulty case when they approached the police car that night or even when she made her second statement. You are more or less pulling that out of thin air.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me as to whether or not they had sex that night but you are definitely not using the same line of reasoning when you are claiming she 'learned' from the McNulty case since there is not one shred of evidence that indicates she was aware of it.
1st point, yea i've been that hammered before.. though it's been a long time.. but I can tell you, I sure as hell didn't remember what happened the next day until someone told me. (does that give you a hint on how i view the allegations?)
and ya, i am using the same exact reasoning. you're saying: since ben was there and she ended up with some kind of DNA, genital injuries consistent with having sex and something else (i don't know, and i'm not gonna look up what your last thing was) then it MUST have been he that caused all of it. And I'm saying, if she knows who ben is by sight, what his height and weight are, and that she doesn't live under a rock that she probably knows he's been in trouble. and see, where they are similar is that there is no "Shred" of evidence that says ben even had sex with the girl.
she coulda gotten some before she went out that night. it wouldn't be the first time a sorority girl was easy and had sex with more than one guy in one night.

snarky
04-17-2010, 03:08 PM
As I read it, her exact statement initially was "No, I'm not sure what happened". And again this was when she was drunk. She revised her statement the next day (after she was sober) that they did have sex. Not sure if you have ever been so drunk that you don't really remember everything you did until sober up - it's happened to me so I'm inclined to believe her statement the next day has at least some credibility.

And no, you are not using the same reasoning as me since you can provide not one statement by anyone involved or any piece of physical evidence to support the notion that she was aware of the McNulty case when they approached the police car that night or even when she made her second statement. You are more or less pulling that out of thin air.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me as to whether or not they had sex that night but you are definitely not using the same line of reasoning when you are claiming she 'learned' from the McNulty case since there is not one shred of evidence that indicates she was aware of it.
1st point, yea i've been that hammered before.. though it's been a long time.. but I can tell you, I sure as hell didn't remember what happened the next day until someone told me. (does that give you a hint on how i view the allegations?)
and ya, i am using the same exact reasoning. you're saying: since ben was there and she ended up with some kind of DNA, genital injuries consistent with having sex and something else (i don't know, and i'm not gonna look up what your last thing was) then it MUST have been he that caused all of it. And I'm saying, if she knows who ben is by sight, what his height and weight are, and that she doesn't live under a rock that she probably knows he's been in trouble. and see, where they are similar is that there is no "Shred" of evidence that says ben even had sex with the girl.
she coulda gotten some before she went out that night. it wouldn't be the first time a sorority girl was easy and had sex with more than one guy in one night.

I'll repeat:

Her statement that the two of them had sex + vaginal bruising + traces of male DNA + Ben confirming that they had contact

All of those things come straight from the police report and/or the DAs press conference.

Is there anything in either the police report or the DAs press conference that indicates she was aware of the McNulty case? This is a simple yes or no question. So I would appreciate it if you began your answer with one of those two words and if your answer is yes provide links to support. I can find no official record of either her or her friends describing him as weighing 241 pounds.

snarky
04-17-2010, 03:20 PM
People can't have it both ways - they're trying to say she was too drunk off her a$$ to consent, but at the same time they're saying her statements can be considered the epitome of reliability. There's a reason the DA didn't prosecute - she was an unreliable witness (remember he said that if he had a case he would have prosecuted regardless of whether the DTF chick and her family wanted him to or not - a crime would have been committed, and his duty would have been to prosecute).

If someone does insist on using her initial statment as a Rosetta stone to the truth, I'd point out, as I read it, her initial statement was,"NO" in direct response to Sgt. Blash's question "Did he rape you?". Puts a different spin on things, I believe.

I've never said she was too drunk to give consent and personally I have some philosophical issues with "too drunk to consent laws"

I think all told the criminal case against Ben appears to have been very weak. Maybe we are thinking about different parts of the DAs presser but I remember him saying not that no crime had been committed but that he had to recognize when he had insufficient evidence to get a conviction and he the followed that up by saying that if he did have sufficient evidence he would pursue the case "vigorously".

And you are right, her answer was no. I read an article the other day (didn't save it) that said her answer was "No, I'm not sure" but the "I'm not sure" part was in relation the question of whether or not they had sex.

But I really don't put too much weight on that "No" for two reasons. First, some people consider rape to only described by a sexual assault accompanied by violence (as opposed to intimidation and/or false imprisonment). Second, she did make a claim to the same officer that she was sexually assaulted by Ben. So it seems that in her mind there was some distinction between sexual assault and rape.

Time to go out for some afternoon beers in the woods. Be back later.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-17-2010, 03:29 PM
People can't have it both ways - they're trying to say she was too drunk off her a$$ to consent, but at the same time they're saying her statements can be considered the epitome of reliability. There's a reason the DA didn't prosecute - she was an unreliable witness (remember he said that if he had a case he would have prosecuted regardless of whether the DTF chick and her family wanted him to or not - a crime would have been committed, and his duty would have been to prosecute).

If someone does insist on using her initial statment as a Rosetta stone to the truth, I'd point out, as I read it, her initial statement was,"NO" in direct response to Sgt. Blash's question "Did he rape you?". Puts a different spin on things, I believe.

I've never said she was too drunk to give consent and personally I have some philosophical issues with "too drunk to consent laws"

I think all told the criminal case against Ben appears to have been very weak. Maybe we are thinking about different parts of the DAs presser but I remember him saying not that no crime had been committed but that he had to recognize when he had insufficient evidence to get a conviction and he the followed that up by saying that if he did have sufficient evidence he would pursue the case "vigorously".

And you are right, her answer was no. I read an article the other day (didn't save it) that said her answer was "No, I'm not sure" but the "I'm not sure" part was in relation the question of whether or not they had sex.

But I really don't put too much weight on that "No" for two reasons. First, some people consider rape to only described by a sexual assault accompanied by violence (as opposed to intimidation and/or false imprisonment). Second, she did make a claim to the same officer that she was sexually assaulted by Ben. So it seems that in her mind there was some distinction between sexual assault and rape.

Time to go out for some afternoon beers in the woods. Be back later.

Good points, and of course it's a valid point of view. My view is that someone who is too drunk to know if they had sex probably can't contribute too much to helping figure out what happened. So basically it was the rest of the DTF posse that gave this thing life, and their statements that have kept it going in the media.

BTW - I wonder how come the cops/body guard statements haven't been released like the DTF posse statments?

Hope you had a good time in the woods drinking! (Here in San Antonio we sometimes drink inside, either in our house or in buildings called "bars") ! :shock: :D :tt2 :tt1 :Cheers

snarky
04-17-2010, 03:37 PM
Hope you had a good time in the woods drinking! (Here in San Antonio we sometimes drink inside, either in our house or in buildings called "bars") ! :shock: :D :tt2 :tt1 :Cheers

Yes this is a bar in the woods:

http://www.touristclubsf.org/

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Panoramic ... 2&t=h&z=19 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Panoramic+Hwy+%26+Ridge+Ave,+Mill+Valley,+M arin,+California+94941&ie=UTF8&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FfVSQgIdUMSx-A&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&hq=&hnear=Panoramic+Hwy+%26+Ridge+Ave,+Mill+Valley,+Ma rin,+California+94941&ll=37.898573,-122.569474&spn=0.001014,0.002642&t=h&z=19)

I'll respond to the rest later, but I might be drunk so who knows what I will say. :lol: :Cheers :Cheers :Cheers

Lebsteel
04-17-2010, 03:47 PM
Hope you had a good time in the woods drinking! (Here in San Antonio we sometimes drink inside, either in our house or in buildings called "bars") ! :shock: :D :tt2 :tt1 :Cheers

Yes this is a bar in the woods:

http://www.touristclubsf.org/

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Panoramic ... 2&t=h&z=19 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Panoramic+Hwy+%26+Ridge+Ave,+Mill+Valley,+M arin,+California+94941&ie=UTF8&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FfVSQgIdUMSx-A&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&hq=&hnear=Panoramic+Hwy+%26+Ridge+Ave,+Mill+Valley,+Ma rin,+California+94941&ll=37.898573,-122.569474&spn=0.001014,0.002642&t=h&z=19)

I'll respond to the rest later, but I might be drunk so who knows what I will say. :lol: :Cheers :Cheers :Cheers
Snarky, I used to live in Vacaville and Fairfield about 16 years ago. I loved the views of SF from Mt. Tamalpais. I did a lot of hiking in that area and over in the Sierras. I've moved around a lot having been in the Air Force for 21 years and that area is one of the most beautiful places I've lived. :Cheers

JAR
04-17-2010, 05:04 PM
a couple more tidbits from the files.


"Smith, a member of Phi Mu, stated she saw a very intoxicated girl hanging all over Ben in VIP (identified as the victim). Smith recalls commenting to her friend how the girl was all over Ben. She stated Ben did not appear to want the girl all over him."


Another girl, Brooks, expressed surprise anything happened that evening because Ben's cop had everything under control (described by multiple people as very serious and very businesslike). She did not see anyone go in the back area, did not see Ben giving anyone special attention and appeared interested only in small talk."


Barravechio did not recall the alleged victim. One girl stood out to him, a girl he described as wearing a grey sweater dress. According to Barravechio, she and Ben had been sitting at the corner of the bar and then went to take a seat in VIP.

Barravechio explained that at one point, Ben asked him "hey, show this girl where the bathroom is". Barravechio said he opened the door to the hallway and walked down with the girl following". He stated that the girl was giggling, and he pointed to the bathroom and the girl said "thanks, I'm just going to sit" and took a seat on a stool outside the bathroom and Barravechio left.

Asked if he thought it was strange the girl just wanted to sit outside the bathroom Barravechio stated he did not. He did not see anyone else go back in the hall, nor saw the girl leave. After leaving the hall, he went to the bar for a few red bulls (the bartender corroborates this, but we don't know about the timing). He then took a seat closer to Joyner to talk. During the time he went to the bar, he lost track of Ben for a few minutes. The next time he saw Ben he was sitting with the girl in the grey sweater again.


Barravechio was approached by Sgt Blash. Sgt Blash stated "hey, I need to talk to you guys. We have a problem, this drunken bitch drunk off her ass is accusing Ben of rape...this pisses me off, women can do this...it's bull****, but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report". Barravechio said Sgt Blash also stated the victim had changed her story 5 times and said "this is BS, she's making **** up". Barravechio stated Sgt Blash initially used the term assault however, then said rape.

Barravechio's initial reaction was a joke. He told Sgt Blash there is no way this could have happened (referring to the allegations). Blash also advised him it was the victim's friend making all the fuss and not the victim. Barravechio described Sgt Blash as being visibly upset.

Barravechio described the ride home as quiet. However, Colon exclaimed "there ain't no f-in way" in reference to the allegation.

Barravechio said he was seated by the hall most of the night and saw or heard nothing out of the ordinary. He did not know when or how the incident could have happened or who it could have been.

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 05:38 PM
Why show your cards if you're in the works of a civil suit of your own?
i assume you mean why the girls lawyers showed her cards... if i'm wrong disregard.
but she's showing all her cards because she wants to put as much pressure as she can on Ben. make him look bad. have people convict him in the court of public opinion. put his job, lifestyle and relationships on the line. She learned from the Mcnulty case. don't let it sit. get it out there as fast as possible with as much information as you can. and then see if he squirms.

I was referring to Ben's side.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-17-2010, 08:33 PM
a couple more tidbits from the files.

[quote]"Smith, a member of Phi Mu, stated she saw a very intoxicated girl hanging all over Ben in VIP (identified as the victim). Smith recalls commenting to her friend how the girl was all over Ben. She stated Ben did not appear to want the girl all over him."


Another girl, Brooks, expressed surprise anything happened that evening because Ben's cop had everything under control (described by multiple people as very serious and very businesslike). She did not see anyone go in the back area, did not see Ben giving anyone special attention and appeared interested only in small talk."


Barravechio did not recall the alleged victim. One girl stood out to him, a girl he described as wearing a grey sweater dress. According to Barravechio, she and Ben had been sitting at the corner of the bar and then went to take a seat in VIP.

Barravechio explained that at one point, Ben asked him "hey, show this girl where the bathroom is". Barravechio said he opened the door to the hallway and walked down with the girl following". He stated that the girl was giggling, and he pointed to the bathroom and the girl said "thanks, I'm just going to sit" and took a seat on a stool outside the bathroom and Barravechio left.

Asked if he thought it was strange the girl just wanted to sit outside the bathroom Barravechio stated he did not. He did not see anyone else go back in the hall, nor saw the girl leave. After leaving the hall, he went to the bar for a few red bulls (the bartender corroborates this, but we don't know about the timing). He then took a seat closer to Joyner to talk. During the time he went to the bar, he lost track of Ben for a few minutes. The next time he saw Ben he was sitting with the girl in the grey sweater again.


Barravechio was approached by Sgt Blash. Sgt Blash stated "hey, I need to talk to you guys. We have a problem, this drunken bitch drunk off her bad word is accusing Ben of rape...this pisses me off, women can do this...it's bad word, but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report". Barravechio said Sgt Blash also stated the victim had changed her story 5 times and said "this is BS, she's making bad word up". Barravechio stated Sgt Blash initially used the term assault however, then said rape.

Barravechio's initial reaction was a joke. He told Sgt Blash there is no way this could have happened (referring to the allegations). Blash also advised him it was the victim's friend making all the fuss and not the victim. Barravechio described Sgt Blash as being visibly upset.

Barravechio described the ride home as quiet. However, Colon exclaimed "there ain't no f-in way" in reference to the allegation.

Barravechio said he was seated by the hall most of the night and saw or heard nothing out of the ordinary. He did not know when or how the incident could have happened or who it could have been.
[/quote:28qo1l17]

Jar, where did you get these quotes, I didn't see them in the earlier releases on the smokinggun.com or whatever it is.

The part bolded in green - that seems to me to be absolutely huge - After the alleged incident they were sitting at the table together?? .

That is the first time I read anything like that, or even anything at all about what happened after the alleged incident. I've read stuff like "Ben left her in the bathroom without saying anything at all to her", which all sounds like conjecture. But the cop/bodyguard saying something like that carries a lot of weight.

They're sitting together talking after the alleged incident - does that sound like rape or assault took place just before that? Or does it make it sound more like something consensual took place?

I vote for #2. What say you guys?

JAR
04-17-2010, 08:51 PM
[quote=JAR]a couple more tidbits from the files.

[quote]"Smith, a member of Phi Mu, stated she saw a very intoxicated girl hanging all over Ben in VIP (identified as the victim). Smith recalls commenting to her friend how the girl was all over Ben. She stated Ben did not appear to want the girl all over him."


Another girl, Brooks, expressed surprise anything happened that evening because Ben's cop had everything under control (described by multiple people as very serious and very businesslike). She did not see anyone go in the back area, did not see Ben giving anyone special attention and appeared interested only in small talk."


Barravechio did not recall the alleged victim. One girl stood out to him, a girl he described as wearing a grey sweater dress. According to Barravechio, she and Ben had been sitting at the corner of the bar and then went to take a seat in VIP.

Barravechio explained that at one point, Ben asked him "hey, show this girl where the bathroom is". Barravechio said he opened the door to the hallway and walked down with the girl following". He stated that the girl was giggling, and he pointed to the bathroom and the girl said "thanks, I'm just going to sit" and took a seat on a stool outside the bathroom and Barravechio left.

Asked if he thought it was strange the girl just wanted to sit outside the bathroom Barravechio stated he did not. He did not see anyone else go back in the hall, nor saw the girl leave. After leaving the hall, he went to the bar for a few red bulls (the bartender corroborates this, but we don't know about the timing). He then took a seat closer to Joyner to talk. During the time he went to the bar, he lost track of Ben for a few minutes. The next time he saw Ben he was sitting with the girl in the grey sweater again.


Barravechio was approached by Sgt Blash. Sgt Blash stated "hey, I need to talk to you guys. We have a problem, this drunken bitch drunk off her bad word is accusing Ben of rape...this pisses me off, women can do this...it's bad word, but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report". Barravechio said Sgt Blash also stated the victim had changed her story 5 times and said "this is BS, she's making bad word up". Barravechio stated Sgt Blash initially used the term assault however, then said rape.

Barravechio's initial reaction was a joke. He told Sgt Blash there is no way this could have happened (referring to the allegations). Blash also advised him it was the victim's friend making all the fuss and not the victim. Barravechio described Sgt Blash as being visibly upset.

Barravechio described the ride home as quiet. However, Colon exclaimed "there ain't no f-in way" in reference to the allegation.

Barravechio said he was seated by the hall most of the night and saw or heard nothing out of the ordinary. He did not know when or how the incident could have happened or who it could have been.
[/quote:2jwj6ijz]

Jar, where did you get these quotes, I didn't see them in the earlier releases on the smokinggun.com or whatever it is.

The part bolded in green - that seems to me to be absolutely huge - After the alleged incident they were sitting at the table together?? .

That is the first time I read anything like that, or even anything at all about what happened after the alleged incident. I've read stuff like "Ben left her in the bathroom without saying anything at all to her", which all sounds like conjecture. But the cop/bodyguard saying something like that carries a lot of weight.

They're sitting together talking after the alleged incident - does that sound like rape or assault took place just before that? Or does it make it sound more like something consensual took place?

I vote for #2. What say you guys?[/quote:2jwj6ijz]

all in here, http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10106/1050964-66.stm

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 08:56 PM
[quote=JAR]a couple more tidbits from the files.

[quote]"Smith, a member of Phi Mu, stated she saw a very intoxicated girl hanging all over Ben in VIP (identified as the victim). Smith recalls commenting to her friend how the girl was all over Ben. She stated Ben did not appear to want the girl all over him."


Another girl, Brooks, expressed surprise anything happened that evening because Ben's cop had everything under control (described by multiple people as very serious and very businesslike). She did not see anyone go in the back area, did not see Ben giving anyone special attention and appeared interested only in small talk."


Barravechio did not recall the alleged victim. One girl stood out to him, a girl he described as wearing a grey sweater dress. According to Barravechio, she and Ben had been sitting at the corner of the bar and then went to take a seat in VIP.

Barravechio explained that at one point, Ben asked him "hey, show this girl where the bathroom is". Barravechio said he opened the door to the hallway and walked down with the girl following". He stated that the girl was giggling, and he pointed to the bathroom and the girl said "thanks, I'm just going to sit" and took a seat on a stool outside the bathroom and Barravechio left.

Asked if he thought it was strange the girl just wanted to sit outside the bathroom Barravechio stated he did not. He did not see anyone else go back in the hall, nor saw the girl leave. After leaving the hall, he went to the bar for a few red bulls (the bartender corroborates this, but we don't know about the timing). He then took a seat closer to Joyner to talk. During the time he went to the bar, he lost track of Ben for a few minutes. The next time he saw Ben he was sitting with the girl in the grey sweater again.


Barravechio was approached by Sgt Blash. Sgt Blash stated "hey, I need to talk to you guys. We have a problem, this drunken bitch drunk off her bad word is accusing Ben of rape...this pisses me off, women can do this...it's bad word, but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report". Barravechio said Sgt Blash also stated the victim had changed her story 5 times and said "this is BS, she's making bad word up". Barravechio stated Sgt Blash initially used the term assault however, then said rape.

Barravechio's initial reaction was a joke. He told Sgt Blash there is no way this could have happened (referring to the allegations). Blash also advised him it was the victim's friend making all the fuss and not the victim. Barravechio described Sgt Blash as being visibly upset.

Barravechio described the ride home as quiet. However, Colon exclaimed "there ain't no f-in way" in reference to the allegation.

Barravechio said he was seated by the hall most of the night and saw or heard nothing out of the ordinary. He did not know when or how the incident could have happened or who it could have been.
[/quote:217puyxx]

Jar, where did you get these quotes, I didn't see them in the earlier releases on the smokinggun.com or whatever it is.

The part bolded in green - that seems to me to be absolutely huge - After the alleged incident they were sitting at the table together?? .

That is the first time I read anything like that, or even anything at all about what happened after the alleged incident. I've read stuff like "Ben left her in the bathroom without saying anything at all to her", which all sounds like conjecture. But the cop/bodyguard saying something like that carries a lot of weight.

They're sitting together talking after the alleged incident - does that sound like rape or assault took place just before that? Or does it make it sound more like something consensual took place?

I vote for #2. What say you guys?[/quote:217puyxx]

That's been my vote all along.

But I'm sure she was traumatized from just being raped and didn't realize who she was sitting with after. :roll:

NJ-STEELER
04-17-2010, 09:40 PM
that says the girl in the gray sweather was not the accuser, but another girl.


was the accuser jilted cause ben was hanging with another chick while she was actively flirting with him.??

Dee Dub
04-17-2010, 11:00 PM
Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

Yeah these wonderful lawyers of Ben really never did much defending did they? He gets grilled and racked over the coals on television for a whole nation to watch and judge and not one lawyer comes back to defend Ben.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-17-2010, 11:04 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1g4ds4ns]Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

Yeah these wonderful lawyers of Ben really never did much defending did they? He gets grilled and racked over the coals on television for a whole nation to watch and judge and not one lawyer comes back to defend Ben.[/quote:1g4ds4ns]

I can only hope this is part of a grand strategy they have to blow the whole thing open as a gross miscarriage of justice (referring to the filing of the criminal complaint in the first place).

I kind of worry that might not be the case though, given the DA's attitude at his presser...

Dee Dub
04-17-2010, 11:08 PM
It serves no real productive purpose for Ben to tell his side of the story at this point.

Say what??? Well as a result of that this is never going to go away and it will continue to stain this franchise and stuff like this down below will continue to surface right or wrong...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... llegation/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/16/gbi-documents-contain-evidence-of-another-roethlisberger-allegation/)

papillon
04-17-2010, 11:43 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1lbmlasm]Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

Yeah these wonderful lawyers of Ben really never did much defending did they? He gets grilled and racked over the coals on television for a whole nation to watch and judge and not one lawyer comes back to defend Ben.[/quote:1lbmlasm]

His lawyer's job was to first avoid the trial and two, should it go to trial defend him. They succeeded by not having the case go to trial. What he needs to defend himself is a PR firm. Unfortunately, hew was allowed to give his lame 90 second statement before he could get professional handling. I have to assume that no professional PR firm would have let him address the world looking like he did or deliver the lame unrehearsed statement.

Pappy

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-18-2010, 12:16 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1s23lbqr]Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

Yeah these wonderful lawyers of Ben really never did much defending did they? He gets grilled and racked over the coals on television for a whole nation to watch and judge and not one lawyer comes back to defend Ben.

His lawyer's job was to first avoid the trial and two, should it go to trial defend him. They succeeded by not having the case go to trial. What he needs to defend himself is a PR firm. Unfortunately, hew was allowed to give his lame 90 second statement before he could get professional handling. I have to assume that no professional PR firm would have let him address the world looking like he did or deliver the lame unrehearsed statement.

Pappy[/quote:1s23lbqr]

That whole thing was bizarre. I've read on these pages that Ben was working out, lifting etc., when he was "surprised to hear" there was a press conference he had to give ... now! That's why he was in a stupid Nike shirt and looked like he had ... uhhmm, just finished working out.

So, why was he surprised surprise? I can't remember, was it general knowledge that there was going to be a press conference that day at that time? Who called it, presumably the Steelers, so why wasn't Ben aware of it? Wouldn't they have a strong interest in its coming across well (like Ben in a suit, a well-written and well-presented statement, etc.).

Unless Ben was told ahead of time and completely ignored preparations, the whole thing seems kind of fishy. Could the F.O. have been thinking maybe the right thing to do was to blind side him and make him look bad? That seems so crazy ... what other explanations could there be?

Moral of the story - don't FUBAR, and you won't have to deal with these questions and problems...

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-18-2010, 12:47 AM
The one thing I don't understand about Ben's story is this bit where he told his friend that she fell and he said she was too drunk to continue. If that's the case why didn't he put her into a cab or at least get somebody from the club to go back there and make sure she is OK. I mean, it sounds like he just left her there. That makes no sense to me. If he had the good sense to 'call it off' after she fell -- why didn't he have the good sense to make sure she didn't fall down again and potentially crack her skull.

Snark - What have we read about what happened after she fell? I think I've read somewhere that he helped her up, but no way I can remember where. I might have helped her back to the table, like you're saying, but maybe she shrugged him off and said, "I'm OK".

Come to think of it, I can't recall reading much about after she went back to the bathroom. Did she come back alone? Where was Ben? Did she sit at the table and drink more? I can't remember what the DTF chick statements said about that.

Where's Abe Zapruder when you need him? :D

The statements provided from her and her friends indicate that he came out first and then she came out crying. The accuser says that after they had sex he left without saying anything. And according to the statements provided by the accuser and her friends, they left the bar immediately and went to the first police car they saw.

There's nothing from Ben's side other than this bit where he supposedly stopped when she fell. There's no version of events for what happened next.

That is in direct contradiction to one of the cop's statements to the effect that after Ben came out from the bathroom, they all were sitting and talking at the table for a while.

It's in one of these posts ... "grey sweater dress girl ...", etc.

So is the cop lying? Or are the 4 drunk DTF sorority sisters lying?

NJ-STEELER
04-18-2010, 01:27 AM
...Barravechio did not recall the alleged victim. One girl stood out to him, a girl he described as wearing a grey sweater dress. According to Barravechio, she and Ben had been sitting at the corner of the bar and then went to take a seat in VIP....

am i reading this wrong, or is that saying that he doesn't remeber the victim, but does recall this other girl ...in gray seather dress

BlackJackGold
04-18-2010, 06:40 AM
That guy has three different stories.

In this one he is claiming that he doesn't remember the victim but remembers another woman aged 25 that shot ben down in flames when he asked her to go home with him.

papillon
04-18-2010, 09:13 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":3lnn8d5e]Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

Yeah these wonderful lawyers of Ben really never did much defending did they? He gets grilled and racked over the coals on television for a whole nation to watch and judge and not one lawyer comes back to defend Ben.

His lawyer's job was to first avoid the trial and two, should it go to trial defend him. They succeeded by not having the case go to trial. What he needs to defend himself is a PR firm. Unfortunately, hew was allowed to give his lame 90 second statement before he could get professional handling. I have to assume that no professional PR firm would have let him address the world looking like he did or deliver the lame unrehearsed statement.

Pappy

That whole thing was bizarre. I've read on these pages that Ben was working out, lifting etc., when he was "surprised to hear" there was a press conference he had to give ... now! That's why he was in a stupid Nike shirt and looked like he had ... uhhmm, just finished working out.

So, why was he surprised surprise? I can't remember, was it general knowledge that there was going to be a press conference that day at that time? Who called it, presumably the Steelers, so why wasn't Ben aware of it? Wouldn't they have a strong interest in its coming across well (like Ben in a suit, a well-written and well-presented statement, etc.).

Unless Ben was told ahead of time and completely ignored preparations, the whole thing seems kind of fishy. Could the F.O. have been thinking maybe the right thing to do was to blind side him and make him look bad? That seems so crazy ... what other explanations could there be?

Moral of the story - don't FUBAR, and you won't have to deal with these questions and problems...[/quote:3lnn8d5e]

I doubt this is the case, but could the Steelers possibly be saying, "..since you blind sided us with this nonsense, here's one for you" I doubt it, that woukld be petty beyond all belief and unproductive in the long run. More than anything about this whole fiasco,I'd love to know how that presser came to be and why Ben was unprepared.

Pappy

JAR
04-18-2010, 09:40 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2siaz0kl]Maybe Ben or someone on his side other than a cops lawyer should explain what went down then instead of holding a presser to say sorry, and by the way i will never answer any questions about details from that night. We only heard one side of the story because that is the only side that talked. Whose fault is that?

There wasn't even a real statement after the announcement that no charges would be filed from Ben's own lawyer. Shouldn't he chastise the DA down there for his statements? Calling the girl the victim in the same breath he is saying he isn't filing criminal charges and verbally berating Ben on that platform was uncalled for. Why no mention of the girls morals when she was in 3 different bars and had a .20 BAC? Ben is the sole reason she blew a .20 when she was in 3 different bars?

Yeah these wonderful lawyers of Ben really never did much defending did they? He gets grilled and racked over the coals on television for a whole nation to watch and judge and not one lawyer comes back to defend Ben.

His lawyer's job was to first avoid the trial and two, should it go to trial defend him. They succeeded by not having the case go to trial. What he needs to defend himself is a PR firm. Unfortunately, hew was allowed to give his lame 90 second statement before he could get professional handling. I have to assume that no professional PR firm would have let him address the world looking like he did or deliver the lame unrehearsed statement.

Pappy

That whole thing was bizarre. I've read on these pages that Ben was working out, lifting etc., when he was "surprised to hear" there was a press conference he had to give ... now! That's why he was in a stupid Nike shirt and looked like he had ... uhhmm, just finished working out.

So, why was he surprised surprise? I can't remember, was it general knowledge that there was going to be a press conference that day at that time? Who called it, presumably the Steelers, so why wasn't Ben aware of it? Wouldn't they have a strong interest in its coming across well (like Ben in a suit, a well-written and well-presented statement, etc.).

Unless Ben was told ahead of time and completely ignored preparations, the whole thing seems kind of fishy. Could the F.O. have been thinking maybe the right thing to do was to blind side him and make him look bad? That seems so crazy ... what other explanations could there be?

Moral of the story - don't FUBAR, and you won't have to deal with these questions and problems...

I doubt this is the case, but could the Steelers possibly be saying, "..since you blind sided us with this nonsense, here's one for you" I doubt it, that woukld be petty beyond all belief and unproductive in the long run. More than anything about this whole fiasco,I'd love to know how that presser came to be and why Ben was unprepared.

Pappy[/quote:2siaz0kl]

It was reported that he was at the facility working out. Since he knew he wasn't going to be charged, they were going to have his lawyer make a statement after the DA. But since the DA decided to get into gritty details and call out Ben, they had Ben make the statement. He didn't have a suit with him, just what he wore to the facility.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-18-2010, 11:00 AM
,,,

Yeah these wonderful lawyers of Ben really never did much defending did they? He gets grilled and racked over the coals on television for a whole nation to watch and judge and not one lawyer comes back to defend Ben.

His lawyer's job was to first avoid the trial and two, should it go to trial defend him. They succeeded by not having the case go to trial. What he needs to defend himself is a PR firm. Unfortunately, hew was allowed to give his lame 90 second statement before he could get professional handling. I have to assume that no professional PR firm would have let him address the world looking like he did or deliver the lame unrehearsed statement.

Pappy

That whole thing was bizarre. I've read on these pages that Ben was working out, lifting etc., when he was "surprised to hear" there was a press conference he had to give ... now! That's why he was in a stupid Nike shirt and looked like he had ... uhhmm, just finished working out.

So, why was he surprised surprise? I can't remember, was it general knowledge that there was going to be a press conference that day at that time? Who called it, presumably the Steelers, so why wasn't Ben aware of it? Wouldn't they have a strong interest in its coming across well (like Ben in a suit, a well-written and well-presented statement, etc.).

Unless Ben was told ahead of time and completely ignored preparations, the whole thing seems kind of fishy. Could the F.O. have been thinking maybe the right thing to do was to blind side him and make him look bad? That seems so crazy ... what other explanations could there be?

Moral of the story - don't FUBAR, and you won't have to deal with these questions and problems...

I doubt this is the case, but could the Steelers possibly be saying, "..since you blind sided us with this nonsense, here's one for you" I doubt it, that woukld be petty beyond all belief and unproductive in the long run. More than anything about this whole fiasco,I'd love to know how that presser came to be and why Ben was unprepared.

Pappy

It was reported that he was at the facility working out. Since he knew he wasn't going to be charged, they were going to have his lawyer make a statement after the DA. But since the DA decided to get into gritty details and call out Ben, they had Ben make the statement. He didn't have a suit with him, just what he wore to the facility.

If that report is true, it will go down in public relations history as one of the worst damage control episodes ever - it will be taught in Public Relations/Damage Control 101 as the poster case for what not to do.

snarky
04-18-2010, 12:12 PM
People can't have it both ways - they're trying to say she was too drunk off her a$$ to consent, but at the same time they're saying her statements can be considered the epitome of reliability. There's a reason the DA didn't prosecute - she was an unreliable witness (remember he said that if he had a case he would have prosecuted regardless of whether the DTF chick and her family wanted him to or not - a crime would have been committed, and his duty would have been to prosecute).

If someone does insist on using her initial statment as a Rosetta stone to the truth, I'd point out, as I read it, her initial statement was,"NO" in direct response to Sgt. Blash's question "Did he rape you?". Puts a different spin on things, I believe.

I've never said she was too drunk to give consent and personally I have some philosophical issues with "too drunk to consent laws"

I think all told the criminal case against Ben appears to have been very weak. Maybe we are thinking about different parts of the DAs presser but I remember him saying not that no crime had been committed but that he had to recognize when he had insufficient evidence to get a conviction and he the followed that up by saying that if he did have sufficient evidence he would pursue the case "vigorously".

And you are right, her answer was no. I read an article the other day (didn't save it) that said her answer was "No, I'm not sure" but the "I'm not sure" part was in relation the question of whether or not they had sex.

But I really don't put too much weight on that "No" for two reasons. First, some people consider rape to only described by a sexual assault accompanied by violence (as opposed to intimidation and/or false imprisonment). Second, she did make a claim to the same officer that she was sexually assaulted by Ben. So it seems that in her mind there was some distinction between sexual assault and rape.

Time to go out for some afternoon beers in the woods. Be back later.

Good points, and of course it's a valid point of view. My view is that someone who is too drunk to know if they had sex probably can't contribute too much to helping figure out what happened. So basically it was the rest of the DTF posse that gave this thing life, and their statements that have kept it going in the media.

BTW - I wonder how come the cops/body guard statements haven't been released like the DTF posse statments?

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. But it looks like the PG released more today. And I can see your point but if she is claiming she said no (and was willing to cooperate with a prosecution) then I think her credibility should ultimately be up to a jury. Unfortunately for somebody (either the accuser or Ben) she ran into this Sgt. Blash who behaved improperly while following up on her complaint.

NJ-STEELER
04-18-2010, 02:30 PM
That guy has three different stories.

In this one he is claiming that he doesn't remember the victim but remembers another woman aged 25 that shot ben down in flames when he asked her to go home with him.

thats staright from the DA's notes from him being interviewed by the cops.


where are the 2 other stories? TMZ? florio?

spyboots
04-18-2010, 06:52 PM
In one of Florio's newest one-sided posts about the Investigation Being Botched, there is a nice little gem that he doesn't mention:

"Mr. Parks said his client and her family were leery. They thought Milledgeville police had leaked information about the woman to the media."

Info about the victim leaked? Was this perhaps not the first drunken sexual spree and bathroom "encounter" for Miss DTF? Sounds like they didn't want the public know what the "poor daughter" was really like. If true, all of a sudden she happens to say no to THIS encounter?

BlackJackGold
04-18-2010, 07:28 PM
The 'feeling' that the victim's identity had been leaked comes from members of the press calling her parent's home the next day.

Read the case files.....

spyboots
04-18-2010, 09:02 PM
I did read it; that's where I got this. Once they know the identify, they can find out a lot about Miss DTF's lifestyle.

BlackJackGold
04-18-2010, 09:40 PM
Constantly haping on the DTF line on the name tag sticker she was wearing is useless except to show that the person who brings it up believes that the way a woman dresses is consent.

It has been legally established that 'manner of dress' does not grant consent.

eniparadoxgma
04-18-2010, 10:49 PM
Constantly haping on the DTF line on the name tag sticker she was wearing is useless except to show that the person who brings it up believes that the way a woman dresses is consent.

It has been legally established that 'manner of dress' does not grant consent.

No offense, but there is a big difference between wearing a short skirt and push-up bra and wearing a sticker that broadcasts you're down to ****.

Now, don't get it twisted. I'm not saying that the sticker would mean a damn thing as to her being culpable for rape or the like. I'm just saying it's apples and oranges. One is a fashion choice. The other is broadcasting a specific message.

BlackJackGold
04-18-2010, 11:02 PM
It's not a specific message.

In fact, it was written in a type of code by becomiong an acronym that had to be explained.

She didn't even fill out the name tag.

It was a joke between friends who had similar tags with different innuendos.

In that manner, it is a very valid comparison to 'manner of dress'.

eniparadoxgma
04-19-2010, 04:59 AM
It's not a specific message.

In fact, it was written in a type of code by becomiong an acronym that had to be explained.

She didn't even fill out the name tag.

It was a joke between friends who had similar tags with different innuendos.

In that manner, it is a very valid comparison to 'manner of dress'.

By being something that can be explained and put into code it is a specific message. It is three words in a specific language.

The manner in which people dress is not easily equitable to that. The lengths of skirts or color of a shirt = DOWN TO #### ?

I never said it was a universally known acronym. That's irrelevant.