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Dee Dub
04-15-2010, 06:04 PM
I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think the ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

So I am officially on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.

JAR
04-15-2010, 06:07 PM
I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

And I am on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.

It's not the latest, the DA had the info. You don't think the Rooney's and Goodell don't have every bit of info and Goodell is reviewing it all before he makes his decision?

Ben's friends, body guards, etc stories are all the same yet the accuser and accusers friends all have different stories.

WoodleyofTroy
04-15-2010, 06:08 PM
and then the curse of the Benbino begins...


Another 30 years before we get a QB?

hawaiiansteel
04-15-2010, 06:09 PM
I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

So I am officially on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.



and I am officially on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is NOT going to be traded within one week. Big Ben will be given one more chance, and that is what's best for the Steelers.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 06:09 PM
I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

So I am officially on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.

I know the info is disturbing but I expected to hear some greazy things about that night after it was over.

I'm not sure about a trade though... however, I have seen FO's speak about commitment before trading a guy...

not sure about this one though...

Dee Dub
04-15-2010, 06:10 PM
I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

And I am on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.

It's not the latest, the DA had the info. You don't think the Rooney's and Goodell don't have every bit of info and Goodell is reviewing it all before he makes his decision?

Ben's friends, body guards, etc stories are all the same yet the accuser and accusers friends all have different stories.

Regardless of whether anything is true or not the more that continues to come is an embarrassment I think ownership is done with.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 06:11 PM
and then the curse of the Benbino begins...


Another 30 years before we get a QB?

no way... we always find a way to compete. BA would be gone though... and smashmouth would return.

proudpittsburgher
04-15-2010, 06:14 PM
I'm not sure about a trade though... however, I have seen FO's speak about commitment before trading a guy...

Yes, but have you heard THIS front office doing it? That's not how the Rooney's work.

I am firmly entrenched in the Ben will not be traded camp. Art II actually referenced to it in the presser. Not after georgie. If he does it again, well then he is as good as gone. But not now.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 06:15 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":11rxa4v1]I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

And I am on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.

It's not the latest, the DA had the info. You don't think the Rooney's and Goodell don't have every bit of info and Goodell is reviewing it all before he makes his decision?

Ben's friends, body guards, etc stories are all the same yet the accuser and accusers friends all have different stories.

Regardless of whether anything is true or not the more that continues to come is an embarrassment I think ownership is done with.[/quote:11rxa4v1]

I think the owners knew about all the details provided. I think it may shock a few "homers" who screamed how there was never any proof of contact or bathroom sex.

The realist knew the details could be a little ugly.... it may sway a few who were 100% on board with Ben never being anywhere near this girl because Ben didn't come to their house and tell it to them first hand.

WoodleyofTroy
04-15-2010, 06:15 PM
and then the curse of the Benbino begins...


Another 30 years before we get a QB?

no way... we always find a way to compete. BA would be gone though... and smashmouth would return.

Compete yeah. No denying that. We're not the Lions.

But losing multiple AFC Championships...

Eddie Spaghetti
04-15-2010, 06:16 PM
you want to trade ben on the word of some drunk ass college bimbo and her sorority sisters and draft tim tebow as his replacement.

that must be what football hell is like.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 06:18 PM
I'm not sure about a trade though... however, I have seen FO's speak about commitment before trading a guy...

Yes, but have you heard THIS front office doing it? That's not how the Rooney's work.

I am firmly entrenched in the Ben will not be traded camp. Art II actually referenced to it in the presser. Not after georgie. If he does it again, well then he is as good as gone. But not now.

No... but have we ever seen old players brought back after leaving for greener pastures or old vets getting nice contracts?

I think our philosophy is changing and I wouldn't put anything past our FO right now.

I don't think we will trade him either.

drprwnap
04-15-2010, 06:18 PM
I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

So I am officially on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.



and I am officially on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is NOT going to be traded within one week. Big Ben will be given one more chance, and that is what's best for the Steelers.

:Agree :Agree BEN WILL NOT BE TRADED!

Steel Life
04-15-2010, 06:21 PM
Does anyone really think that ESPN or others would start their broadcast by saying "Ben's accuser was drunk off her a$$!" or "Medical facts doesn't support Ben's accuser!"...of course not, that just won't bring 'em in. First you reveal the salacious comments & then you remind everyone that he wasn't charged due to lack of evidence - that way the gossipy stuff sticks.

Everyone of any importance already knew this info/version of events & it was right or so damaging, there would've been charges right?...or am I in bizarro world? I hope that Goodell gets to look at the information that Ed Garland found out & it gets leaked out for us to consider.

The Man of Steel
04-15-2010, 06:25 PM
and then the curse of the Benbino begins...
Another 30 years before we get a QB?

As a collective group our QB's from 1983 to 2004 were the epitomy of mediocrity. Trade Ben and it will be another 20 years or so of journeymen QB's running the Steelers offense.

NJ-STEELER
04-15-2010, 06:27 PM
why wouldn't the DA file charges if indeed the statement of the girl and her friends were true?

sounds like an open and shut case in their staements.

what were the "inconsistencies" the DA talked about in his presser

Sugar
04-15-2010, 06:32 PM
Does anyone really think that ESPN or others would start their broadcast by saying "Ben's accuser was drunk off her a$$!" or "Medical facts doesn't support Ben's accuser!"...of course not, that just won't bring 'em in. First you reveal the salacious comments & then you remind everyone that he wasn't charged due to lack of evidence - that way the gossipy stuff sticks.

Everyone of any importance already knew this info/version of events & it was right or so damaging, there would've been charges right?...or am I in bizarro world? I hope that Goodell gets to look at the information that Ed Garland found out & it gets leaked out for us to consider.

:Agree

The DA knew all this stuff and still couldn't charge him. If she went to the cops as quickly as she did and he had done her than one would think that they would have had plenty of physical evidence that wouldn't have required her cooperation. Maybe not, but the story isn't passing the smell test.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 06:35 PM
why wouldn't the DA file charges if indeed the statement of the girl and her friends were true?

sounds like an open and shut case in their staements.

what were the "inconsistencies" the DA talked about in his presser


DA's look for consistency and I think her intoxication makes it hard to get a clear story.

I also think her request to not go forward (pay off was made) makes it harder to go forward.

I also read about bleeding and bruised genitals but without enough DNA who knows? Did the bar ever release the tape of the night in question?

Body guards erasing the photos is also disturbing... maybe Goodell's spygate destruction was put in place.

JAR
04-15-2010, 06:38 PM
why wouldn't the DA file charges if indeed the statement of the girl and her friends were true?

sounds like an open and shut case in their staements.

what were the "inconsistencies" the DA talked about in his presser


DA's look for consistency and I think her intoxication makes it hard to get a clear story.

I also think her request to not go forward (pay off was made) makes it harder to go forward.

I also read about bleeding and bruised genitals but without enough DNA who knows? Did the bar ever release the tape of the night in question?

Body guards erasing the photos is also disturbing... maybe Goodell's spygate destruction was put in place.

Erasing photos isn't disturbing. Camera phones are an invasion of privacy. Why should he have to have his pictures plastered all over the place no matter what he was doing. Would you like your pics everywhere you look?

Sugar
04-15-2010, 06:42 PM
It does make me wonder about the bodyguards. Aren't they off-duty cops? If so, wouldn't there be an IA investigation if they were involved in this as has been testified?

birtikidis
04-15-2010, 06:42 PM
Would you like your pics everywhere you look?
why yes I would. but i'm generally thought of as being conceited.

NJ-STEELER
04-15-2010, 06:43 PM
screw that girl if she was raped and accepted a payoff


shame on her to minimize such a heinous crime.


i thought i read the girl's family had money...why would she need to accept a money deal then?

IMO, if there was a money deal, it was a money grab case from the start

JAR
04-15-2010, 06:48 PM
It does make me wonder about the bodyguards. Aren't they off-duty cops? If so, wouldn't there be an IA investigation if they were involved in this as has been testified?

Yes they are. I have to believe the stories of two sober cops than a bunch of drunk sorority girls out looking to get laid and advertising it.

off-duty Pennsylvania State Trooper Trooper Ed Joyner and off-duty Coraopolis police officer Anthony J. Barravecchio.


The alleged victim was wearing a nametag labeled "DTF" When asked, she said it stood for "down to bad word." Roethlisberger replied, "I'm not down to bad word, but I like to bad word girls."


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=2884963 (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DTF&defid=2884963)

Lebsteel
04-15-2010, 06:49 PM
Some additional disturbing news (or lies) about that fateful evening in Georgia:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

Way too much to paste here, but those sorority gals are saying Ben came after the girl with his "little Ben" already out of his pants! Come on! Seriously? I doubt it, BUT if he did that, I hope we would kick his butt straight to Seattle (and get some draft picks in return) :stirpot

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 06:54 PM
why wouldn't the DA file charges if indeed the statement of the girl and her friends were true?

sounds like an open and shut case in their staements.

what were the "inconsistencies" the DA talked about in his presser


DA's look for consistency and I think her intoxication makes it hard to get a clear story.

I also think her request to not go forward (pay off was made) makes it harder to go forward.

I also read about bleeding and bruised genitals but without enough DNA who knows? Did the bar ever release the tape of the night in question?

Body guards erasing the photos is also disturbing... maybe Goodell's spygate destruction was put in place.

Erasing photos isn't disturbing. Camera phones are an invasion of privacy. Why should he have to have his pictures plastered all over the place no matter what he was doing. Would you like your pics everywhere you look?

It's disturbing if it was done after the incident... if it was being done all night then it's nothing.

and what happened to the tape from the club? Just sayin.

Ben is a SB winning QB... I think he knows what he is in for when he goes out in public. Then again...

NW Steeler
04-15-2010, 06:58 PM
Sounds like a a case of a hammered chick and Ben liking each other, he says "meet me in the bathroom" and he has his "boys" take her there and make sure no one else comes in. Ben goes in, they have sex, but she is so wasted that afterward she thinks maybe she didn't consent. I don't believe for one minute that he raped her. But he is certainly a dumb ass for going into the restroom with her to begin with.

For the record, I don't think he will be traded, but the media will milk this out until the draft anyway. By the end of next Thursday, all this crap will get quiet.

Sugar
04-15-2010, 07:09 PM
Sounds like a a case of a hammered chick and Ben liking each other, he says "meet me in the bathroom" and he has his "boys" take her there and make sure no one else comes in. Ben goes in, they have sex, but she is so wasted that afterward she thinks maybe she didn't consent. I don't believe for one minute that he raped her. But he is certainly a dumb bad word for going into the restroom with her to begin with.

For the record, I don't think he will be traded, but the media will milk this out until the draft anyway. By the end of next Thursday, all this crap will get quiet.

I tend to agree with that version a bit more. I'm sure her "sisters" had some ideas too- the big knocks against McNulty were that she waited too long and that there were never any criminal charges- she went straight for the loot. These girls weren't going to make that mistake.

RuthlessBurgher
04-15-2010, 07:28 PM
I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think the ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

So I am officially on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.

I believe that 69th overall pick from the Raiders is still available. :wink:

WoodleyofTroy
04-15-2010, 07:31 PM
I predict that before the the NFL draft next week the Pittsburgh Steelers will trade Ben Roethlisberger. With the latest about Ben's body guards dragging this woman into the bathroom (ESPN), and now her coming out saying she said "NO" (CNNSI), to Ben I think the ugliness and embarrassment for the Steelers is not going to go away. And I think ownership has had enough. Todays press conference in my opinion was merely to alert the league that he is available. And I believe they leaked a couple of things through the media (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true) http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... hlisberger (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-15/will-steelers-entertain-trade-offers-for-ben-roethlisberger)), to alert other teams they will take offers.

For them to say that no discipline will occur till after the draft is washing their hands of having to do it since they plan on trading him.

So I am officially on record as saying that Ben Roethlisberger is going to be traded with in one week. And I think this is best for the Steelers.

I believe that 69th overall pick from the Raiders is still available. :wink:

ha

calmkiller
04-15-2010, 07:36 PM
and then the curse of the Benbino begins...
Another 30 years before we get a QB?

As a collective group our QB's from 1983 to 2004 were the epitomy of mediocrity. Trade Ben and it will be another 20 years or so of journeymen QB's running the Steelers offense.

This

StarSpangledSteeler
04-15-2010, 07:43 PM
Sounds like a a case of a hammered chick and Ben liking each other, he says "meet me in the bathroom" and he has his "boys" take her there and make sure no one else comes in. Ben goes in, they have sex, but she is so wasted that afterward she thinks maybe she didn't consent. I don't believe for one minute that he raped her. But he is certainly a dumb bad word for going into the restroom with her to begin with.

For the record, I don't think he will be traded, but the media will milk this out until the draft anyway. By the end of next Thursday, all this crap will get quiet.

I agree with just about everything you said.

On another side note, the doctors found practically no semen on the girl (and they couldn't tell whose it was). That seems strange. Not to get too graphic here but if Ben was really raping her why would he not finish the job.

Discipline of Steel
04-15-2010, 08:03 PM
Sounds like a a case of a hammered chick and Ben liking each other, he says "meet me in the bathroom" and he has his "boys" take her there and make sure no one else comes in. Ben goes in, they have sex, but she is so wasted that afterward she thinks maybe she didn't consent. I don't believe for one minute that he raped her. But he is certainly a dumb bad word for going into the restroom with her to begin with.

For the record, I don't think he will be traded, but the media will milk this out until the draft anyway. By the end of next Thursday, all this crap will get quiet.

I agree with just about everything you said.

On another side note, the doctors found practically no semen on the girl (and they couldn't tell whose it was). That seems strange. Not to get too graphic here but if Ben was really raping her why would he not finish the job.

Alcohol inspired ED?

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 08:31 PM
Sounds like a a case of a hammered chick and Ben liking each other, he says "meet me in the bathroom" and he has his "boys" take her there and make sure no one else comes in. Ben goes in, they have sex, but she is so wasted that afterward she thinks maybe she didn't consent. I don't believe for one minute that he raped her. But he is certainly a dumb bad word for going into the restroom with her to begin with.

For the record, I don't think he will be traded, but the media will milk this out until the draft anyway. By the end of next Thursday, all this crap will get quiet.

I agree with just about everything you said.

On another side note, the doctors found practically no semen on the girl (and they couldn't tell whose it was). That seems strange. Not to get too graphic here but if Ben was really raping her why would he not finish the job.

children are expensive...

Sugar
04-15-2010, 08:39 PM
Children are indeed expensive, but wouldn't there be some "evidence" on her clothes or in the bathroom or something?

ghettoscott
04-15-2010, 09:00 PM
..... And I think this is best for the Steelers.

:HeadBanger

JAR
04-15-2010, 09:02 PM
Sounds like a a case of a hammered chick and Ben liking each other, he says "meet me in the bathroom" and he has his "boys" take her there and make sure no one else comes in. Ben goes in, they have sex, but she is so wasted that afterward she thinks maybe she didn't consent. I don't believe for one minute that he raped her. But he is certainly a dumb bad word for going into the restroom with her to begin with.

For the record, I don't think he will be traded, but the media will milk this out until the draft anyway. By the end of next Thursday, all this crap will get quiet.

I agree with just about everything you said.

On another side note, the doctors found practically no semen on the girl (and they couldn't tell whose it was). That seems strange. Not to get too graphic here but if Ben was really raping her why would he not finish the job.
Other things leave DNA too, skin cells, hair, etc but the sample was way too minute, it was probably from the guy she had the night before. :)

stlrz d
04-15-2010, 09:19 PM
you want to trade ben on the word of some drunk bad word college bimbo and her sorority sisters and draft tim tebow as his replacement.

that must be what football hell is like.

LOL! No sheeeeeit!

I predict the OP will be wrong...dead wrong. These statements are all from the accuser and her friends...what would people expect them to say?

This proves nothing...if it did Ben would be in jail, not at OTAs.

Lebsteel
04-15-2010, 09:57 PM
Ben to Buffalo? Per Florio, it would be a good fit:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/36575728/ns/sports-nfl/

BURGH86STEEL
04-15-2010, 10:09 PM
I don't know if Ben will be traded or not. I believe there are some discussions being held within the organization about Ben's future with the Steelers.

I wonder if Ben sorry for his actions or if he feels like what happened was not a big deal. His sincerity or lack of, might go a long way to determining his future with the Steelers.

Shawn
04-15-2010, 10:12 PM
It does make me wonder about the bodyguards. Aren't they off-duty cops? If so, wouldn't there be an IA investigation if they were involved in this as has been testified?

Yes they are. I have to believe the stories of two sober cops than a bunch of drunk sorority girls out looking to get laid and advertising it.

off-duty Pennsylvania State Trooper Trooper Ed Joyner and off-duty Coraopolis police officer Anthony J. Barravecchio.


The alleged victim was wearing a nametag labeled "DTF" When asked, she said it stood for "down to bad word." Roethlisberger replied, "I'm not down to bad word, but I like to bad word girls."


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=2884963 (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DTF&defid=2884963)

Wow...never heard that before. So, this very drunk girl was wearing a DTF nametag? If she went willingly into that bathroom how on this green earth could anyone think this was a rape case? Some here seem so sure of it.

I do not believe Ben is a rapist but I do believe he is an embarassment.

And for the record I do not believe Ben will be traded. Reading the statement...the Steelers and the NFL with a coordinated effort in the suspension...and all the other stuff about him proving to the city yada yada...no way do I see anything other than Ben staying with the Steelers.

Dee you are wrong. I hope you are willing to admit it when the time comes. :D

papillon
04-15-2010, 10:17 PM
Children are indeed expensive, but wouldn't there be some "evidence" on her clothes or in the bathroom or something?

In her stomach...

Pappy

Shawn
04-15-2010, 10:27 PM
Ben to Buffalo? Per Florio, it would be a good fit:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/36575728/ns/sports-nfl/

That article was pure silliness and absurd speculation. Do I think the Steelers will listen to offers? Absolutely. But, to think the Steelers would trade off their franchise QB for one first round draft pick is absurd. I don't care if he teabagged Tomlin's wife they will be looking for at least 2 first round picks. And possibly two first round picks and a player. It would be an absolute bidding war for a QB of Roethlisbergers ability. Other teams don't have some of the moral boundries that the Steelers have. Most NFL teams want butts in the seats and numbers in the win column.

And let me say this...I'm shocked at how many fans want to see Roethlisberger traded. It would be the end of our days as a competitive team. We wouldn't break 7 wins next season without Ben. Do I want Ben punished? Yup. Humbled? Absolutely. But, traded...no way.

papillon
04-15-2010, 10:28 PM
Some additional disturbing news (or lies) about that fateful evening in Georgia:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

Way too much to paste here, but those sorority gals are saying Ben came after the girl with his "little Ben" already out of his pants! Come on! Seriously? I doubt it, BUT if he did that, I hope we would kick his butt straight to Seattle (and get some draft picks in return) :stirpot

A few things about the police report that I find interesting.

Clearly, it's written by the alleged victim, because, it's written in first person.
"I said no and then we had sex." If she was forced into sex wouldn't there be more detail about using force, his superior size, threatening her? The other thing, if it was done against her will, wouldn't she have screamed, kicked, yelled, etc?

One other thing that is noticeable about the report and I'm not sure what this means. It was written in her hand and she was a .2 BAC at the time or potentially higher and the report is legible. How can that be? BAC that high and able to write between the lines, not one sentence out of place, the chronology of the events is perfect, something is amiss.

Pappy

stlrz d
04-15-2010, 10:43 PM
Some additional disturbing news (or lies) about that fateful evening in Georgia:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

Way too much to paste here, but those sorority gals are saying Ben came after the girl with his "little Ben" already out of his pants! Come on! Seriously? I doubt it, BUT if he did that, I hope we would kick his butt straight to Seattle (and get some draft picks in return) :stirpot

A few things about the police report that I find interesting.

Clearly, it's written by the alleged victim, because, it's written in first person.
"I said no and then we had sex." If she was forced into sex wouldn't there be more detail about using force, his superior size, threatening her? The other thing, if it was done against her will, wouldn't she have screamed, kicked, yelled, etc?

One other thing that is noticeable about the report and I'm not sure what this means. It was written in her hand and she was a .2 BAC at the time or potentially higher and the report is legible. How can that be? BAC that high and able to write between the lines, not one sentence out of place, the chronology of the events is perfect, something is amiss.

Pappy

Some of us have been saying that for awhile now. :)

papillon
04-15-2010, 10:53 PM
Some additional disturbing news (or lies) about that fateful evening in Georgia:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

Way too much to paste here, but those sorority gals are saying Ben came after the girl with his "little Ben" already out of his pants! Come on! Seriously? I doubt it, BUT if he did that, I hope we would kick his butt straight to Seattle (and get some draft picks in return) :stirpot

A few things about the police report that I find interesting.

Clearly, it's written by the alleged victim, because, it's written in first person.
"I said no and then we had sex." If she was forced into sex wouldn't there be more detail about using force, his superior size, threatening her? The other thing, if it was done against her will, wouldn't she have screamed, kicked, yelled, etc?

One other thing that is noticeable about the report and I'm not sure what this means. It was written in her hand and she was a .2 BAC at the time or potentially higher and the report is legible. How can that be? BAC that high and able to write between the lines, not one sentence out of place, the chronology of the events is perfect, something is amiss.

Pappy

Some of us have been saying that for awhile now. :)

The story is credible; it follows the events of the evening as they have been reported. Maybe, she told the story and someone else wrote down the words, because she was too intoxicated. something being amiss could simply mean that I don't understand police protocol in a situation when the victim is intoxicated and can't write the report. It doesn't mean that I believe Ben is innocent.

Pappy

stlrz d
04-15-2010, 10:59 PM
Some additional disturbing news (or lies) about that fateful evening in Georgia:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

Way too much to paste here, but those sorority gals are saying Ben came after the girl with his "little Ben" already out of his pants! Come on! Seriously? I doubt it, BUT if he did that, I hope we would kick his butt straight to Seattle (and get some draft picks in return) :stirpot

A few things about the police report that I find interesting.

Clearly, it's written by the alleged victim, because, it's written in first person.
"I said no and then we had sex." If she was forced into sex wouldn't there be more detail about using force, his superior size, threatening her? The other thing, if it was done against her will, wouldn't she have screamed, kicked, yelled, etc?

One other thing that is noticeable about the report and I'm not sure what this means. It was written in her hand and she was a .2 BAC at the time or potentially higher and the report is legible. How can that be? BAC that high and able to write between the lines, not one sentence out of place, the chronology of the events is perfect, something is amiss.

Pappy

Some of us have been saying that for awhile now. :)

The story is credible; it follows the events of the evening as they have been reported. Maybe, she told the story and someone else wrote down the words, because she was too intoxicated. something being amiss could simply mean that I don't understand police protocol in a situation when the victim is intoxicated and can't write the report. It doesn't mean that I believe Ben is innocent.

Pappy

Do you believe the other side of the story is credible?

papillon
04-15-2010, 11:06 PM
[quote=Lebsteel]Some additional disturbing news (or lies) about that fateful evening in Georgia:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

Way too much to paste here, but those sorority gals are saying Ben came after the girl with his "little Ben" already out of his pants! Come on! Seriously? I doubt it, BUT if he did that, I hope we would kick his butt straight to Seattle (and get some draft picks in return) :stirpot

A few things about the police report that I find interesting.

Clearly, it's written by the alleged victim, because, it's written in first person.
"I said no and then we had sex." If she was forced into sex wouldn't there be more detail about using force, his superior size, threatening her? The other thing, if it was done against her will, wouldn't she have screamed, kicked, yelled, etc?

One other thing that is noticeable about the report and I'm not sure what this means. It was written in her hand and she was a .2 BAC at the time or potentially higher and the report is legible. How can that be? BAC that high and able to write between the lines, not one sentence out of place, the chronology of the events is perfect, something is amiss.

Pappy

Some of us have been saying that for awhile now. :)

The story is credible; it follows the events of the evening as they have been reported. Maybe, she told the story and someone else wrote down the words, because she was too intoxicated. something being amiss could simply mean that I don't understand police protocol in a situation when the victim is intoxicated and can't write the report. It doesn't mean that I believe Ben is innocent.

Pappy

Do you believe the other side of the story is credible?[/quote:1rf5tv1r]

What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

stlrz d
04-15-2010, 11:38 PM
What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

How so? Because the accuser's side says so?

Well Jerome Bettis says it isn't in Ben's character to behave this way and he doesn't believe Ben would do this kind of thing.

So now what?

sd steel
04-15-2010, 11:58 PM
What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

How so? Because the accuser's side says so?

Well Jerome Bettis says it isn't in Ben's character to behave this way and he doesn't believe Ben would do this kind of thing.

So now what?
Did Ben ever try to have sex with Jerome against his will?
Being that Ben infact said in his first statement that he had sexual contact with the girl, but it was consensual, then it comes out that he walked up to the girl with his pecker out, (you don't make that up), then she said no, and he proceded. As of the law, no means no yada yada yada. Ben raped her. I'm not saying he will be traded, but to still stand behind him and say he is completely innocent just shows how far some fans will drop their moral compass for the hope of winning another championship. The boy has issues with women.

papillon
04-15-2010, 11:59 PM
What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

How so? Because the accuser's side says so?

Well Jerome Bettis says it isn't in Ben's character to behave this way and he doesn't believe Ben would do this kind of thing.

So now what?

You got me, Ben did nothing wrong that night, as a matter of fact, I recommend that he continue to behave in this fashion when he's in public, it's good for his image. He's innocent, no one believes the drunken sorority whore and her friends.

The Rooneys believe he needs to change, the DA believes he needs to change and Hines Ward wishes the event that never happened (according to you) never happened, he's innocent, clearly these people are too stupid to see Ben's innocence and little boy charm.

Just in case you didn't know, Ben hasn't denied the incident. If he were completely faultless in this case don't you think he would letting everyone know that none of the "alleged" incident happened? He's remained closed mouthed except for the ridiculous 90 second statement where he looked like a homeless bum from the inner city of Pittsburgh.

Pappy

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-16-2010, 12:01 AM
Some additional disturbing news (or lies) about that fateful evening in Georgia:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

Way too much to paste here, but those sorority gals are saying Ben came after the girl with his "little Ben" already out of his pants! Come on! Seriously? I doubt it, BUT if he did that, I hope we would kick his butt straight to Seattle (and get some draft picks in return) :stirpot

A few things about the police report that I find interesting.

Clearly, it's written by the alleged victim, because, it's written in first person.
"I said no and then we had sex." If she was forced into sex wouldn't there be more detail about using force, his superior size, threatening her? The other thing, if it was done against her will, wouldn't she have screamed, kicked, yelled, etc?

One other thing that is noticeable about the report and I'm not sure what this means. It was written in her hand and she was a .2 BAC at the time or potentially higher and the report is legible. How can that be? BAC that high and able to write between the lines, not one sentence out of place, the chronology of the events is perfect, something is amiss.

Pappy


Pillon - read a little further - she wrote two statements. The one you saw with the perfect handwriting was written the next day/later in the day after she sobered up. The one she wrote right away is a few pages farther along - it looks JUST like one would expect a 0.2% hand-written essay to look - all over the page, words/sentences messed up, etc.

SteelCzar76
04-16-2010, 01:19 AM
'For the immortal gods are accustomed at times to grant favorable circumstances and long impunity to those that they wish to punish for their crime, so that they may smart all the the more severely from a change of fortune.'

And i honestly hope that for the sake of Honor and heaven,.. your hero,...is actually innocent.

NJ-STEELER
04-16-2010, 02:28 AM
At the same time, one person in Mr. Roethlisberger's entourage, Mr. Colon, told police that the accuser repeatedly tried to get the quarterback's attention at a bar earlier in the evening, pinched Mr. Roethlisberger and, along with others in her party, wore a sexually suggestive nametag.
Mr. Colon said the woman asked him if he knew what her "DTF" nametag meant. She said it was a crude acronym for wanting to have sex.


http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg ... 861-66.stm (http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/10106/1050861-66.stm)

thats sexual assault. no? ben should file a complaint

grotonsteel
04-16-2010, 02:43 AM
At the same time, one person in Mr. Roethlisberger's entourage, Mr. Colon, told police that the accuser repeatedly tried to get the quarterback's attention at a bar earlier in the evening, pinched Mr. Roethlisberger and, along with others in her party, wore a sexually suggestive nametag.
Mr. Colon said the woman asked him if he knew what her "DTF" nametag meant. She said it was a crude acronym for wanting to have sex.


http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg ... 861-66.stm (http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/10106/1050861-66.stm)

thats sexual assault. no? ben should file a complaint

Lets see what does Moral police on this board have to say about it.

People on this board are crucifying Big Ben based on a statement of a 20 year old drunk sorority girl??? You got to be kidding me.

papillon
04-16-2010, 07:05 AM
Some additional disturbing news (or lies) about that fateful evening in Georgia:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

Way too much to paste here, but those sorority gals are saying Ben came after the girl with his "little Ben" already out of his pants! Come on! Seriously? I doubt it, BUT if he did that, I hope we would kick his butt straight to Seattle (and get some draft picks in return) :stirpot

A few things about the police report that I find interesting.

Clearly, it's written by the alleged victim, because, it's written in first person.
"I said no and then we had sex." If she was forced into sex wouldn't there be more detail about using force, his superior size, threatening her? The other thing, if it was done against her will, wouldn't she have screamed, kicked, yelled, etc?

One other thing that is noticeable about the report and I'm not sure what this means. It was written in her hand and she was a .2 BAC at the time or potentially higher and the report is legible. How can that be? BAC that high and able to write between the lines, not one sentence out of place, the chronology of the events is perfect, something is amiss.

Pappy


Pillon - read a little further - she wrote two statements. The one you saw with the perfect handwriting was written the next day/later in the day after she sobered up. The one she wrote right away is a few pages farther along - it looks JUST like one would expect a 0.2% hand-written essay to look - all over the page, words/sentences messed up, etc.

SASF,

Thanks for the find that makes much more sense. It still doesn't excuse his grotesque behavior that night. Ben behaved poorly and will not be tried by a jury (that's good), but he needs to clean up his act.

It gets tiresome listening to those trying to square this as Ben being innocent and this girl completely at fault. If I were her friends and family I'd be asking her "What the hell were you thinking?" She could use a bit of counseling about proper behavior in public as well.

She isn't a prim and proper socialite to be sure and hopefully this was a wake up call for her.

Pappy

JAR
04-16-2010, 07:07 AM
[quote=papillon]

What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

How so? Because the accuser's side says so?

Well Jerome Bettis says it isn't in Ben's character to behave this way and he doesn't believe Ben would do this kind of thing.

So now what?
Did Ben ever try to have sex with Jerome against his will?
Being that Ben infact said in his first statement that he had sexual contact with the girl, but it was consensual, then it comes out that he walked up to the girl with his pecker out, (you don't make that up), then she said no, and he proceded. As of the law, no means no yada yada yada. Ben raped her. I'm not saying he will be traded, but to still stand behind him and say he is completely innocent just shows how far some fans will drop their moral compass for the hope of winning another championship. The boy has issues with women.[/quote:2ntgnvig]


Fot the 1,293,327th time, BEN NEVER said he had SEXUAL contact with the DTFer!

Sources told KDKA Roethlisberger said he had contact with the woman that was not consummated and afterward she slipped and fell, injuring her head.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4984207

steelblood
04-16-2010, 07:35 AM
What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

How so? Because the accuser's side says so?

Well Jerome Bettis says it isn't in Ben's character to behave this way and he doesn't believe Ben would do this kind of thing.

So now what?

You got me, Ben did nothing wrong that night, as a matter of fact, I recommend that he continue to behave in this fashion when he's in public, it's good for his image. He's innocent, no one believes the drunken sorority whore and her friends.

The Rooneys believe he needs to change, the DA believes he needs to change and Hines Ward wishes the event that never happened (according to you) never happened, he's innocent, clearly these people are too stupid to see Ben's innocence and little boy charm.

Just in case you didn't know, Ben hasn't denied the incident. If he were completely faultless in this case don't you think he would letting everyone know that none of the "alleged" incident happened? He's remained closed mouthed except for the ridiculous 90 second statement where he looked like a homeless bum from the inner city of Pittsburgh.

Pappy
Hey! He could have been a homeless person from any Midwestern City! Leave the 'Burgh out of your rants! The 'Burgh may be smelly, but it dresses nicely and is respectful of women.

Ghost
04-16-2010, 07:54 AM
Legally speaking, Ben IS innocent. Not debatable.

But I am curious - for those of you thinking he wasn't even acting stupidly, immature, insert what ever word works for you, then why was he called to NY by the Comissioner who's said he's disappointed? Why have the Rooney's held a press conference to talk about coordinating punishment with the NFL. That ben hasn't acted theway they expect a Steeler to act? None of which happened in the first case.

I really don't see how you can say he did not act with poor judgement when everyone else in the world thinks he has - including the two most important people as far as football goes - his owner (which we all recognize as being a great owner - is he wrong this time) and the head of the NFL.

Oviedo
04-16-2010, 07:57 AM
The media is only releasing details of one side here which is extremely unprofessional on their part but it is what is giving the story legs. Has any news sources quoted anyone in Ben's group or any of their statements? No because it isn't titalating enough.

Keep in mind that when you read this you are being quoted the statements of "sorority sisters." Living 1.5 miles from a major university and with a daughter of my own going to that university I promise you sorority sisters will lie, cheat and steal to protect each other in a heartbeat. I can tell you of "sisters" hiding evidence of drug and alcohol use from campus police. I can tell you stories of how the girls get stories straight against boys if something goes wrong on a date. If you don't think that they all got together to get their stories straight (primarily because they were all underage drinking) then you are naive. If you don't think they exaggerated elements of their stories to protect or support their "sister" you are naive.

Did something unsavory go on that night. Probably. Did Ben put himself in a terrible position? Absolutely. But don't think for a second that this wasn't two consenting adults making terrible decisions and there is plenty of fault on both sides.

You are just hearing one side because it implicates a stupid, immature star athlete but don't think for a second that little "Miss Georgia" doesn't have her fingerprints all over this incident.

stlrz d
04-16-2010, 07:58 AM
[quote=papillon]

What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

How so? Because the accuser's side says so?

Well Jerome Bettis says it isn't in Ben's character to behave this way and he doesn't believe Ben would do this kind of thing.

So now what?
Did Ben ever try to have sex with Jerome against his will?
Being that Ben infact said in his first statement that he had sexual contact with the girl, but it was consensual, then it comes out that he walked up to the girl with his pecker out, (you don't make that up), then she said no, and he proceded. As of the law, no means no yada yada yada. Ben raped her. I'm not saying he will be traded, but to still stand behind him and say he is completely innocent just shows how far some fans will drop their moral compass for the hope of winning another championship. The boy has issues with women.


Fot the 1,293,327th time, BEN NEVER said he had SEXUAL contact with the DTFer!

Sources told KDKA Roethlisberger said he had contact with the woman that was not consummated and afterward she slipped and fell, injuring her head.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4984207[/quote:10z92scx]

Just forget it. People are going to believe what they want to believe. One bozo said that there's no way someone just makes up a story that Ben was walking around with his junk out so there's no doubt he raped her. Don't mind the fact that when she was asked if she was raped she replied, "No". Oh...it's the same bozo that you're correcting here...never mind.

Pap - the point I was trying to make is that people are taking what they read from the accuser's side as the gospel while completely ignoring anything that is coming from Ben's side. That's all. I'm just saying it's a shame people are so quick to believe these horrible things about Ben without even knowing for sure what actually did take place...yet they refuse to believe anything from his side. Don't you find that the least bit troubling?

stlrz d
04-16-2010, 08:01 AM
Legally speaking, Ben IS innocent. Not debatable.

But I am curious - for those of you thinking he wasn't even acting stupidly, immature, insert what ever word works for you, then why was he called to NY by the Comissioner who's said he's disappointed? Why have the Rooney's held a press conference to talk about coordinating punishment with the NFL. That ben hasn't acted theway they expect a Steeler to act? None of which happened in the first case.

I really don't see how you can say he did not act with poor judgement when everyone else in the world thinks he has - including the two most important people as far as football goes - his owner (which we all recognize as being a great owner - is he wrong this time) and the head of the NFL.

Due to the enormous amount of tabloid journalism creating negative publicity.

Ovie - :Clap very well stated!

JAR
04-16-2010, 08:01 AM
Legally speaking, Ben IS innocent. Not debatable.

But I am curious - for those of you thinking he wasn't even acting stupidly, immature, insert what ever word works for you, then why was he called to NY by the Comissioner who's said he's disappointed? Why have the Rooney's held a press conference to talk about coordinating punishment with the NFL. That ben hasn't acted theway they expect a Steeler to act? None of which happened in the first case.

I really don't see how you can say he did not act with poor judgement when everyone else in the world thinks he has - including the two most important people as far as football goes - his owner (which we all recognize as being a great owner - is he wrong this time) and the head of the NFL.


I sure would like to hear his sides entire story first. We know her side were all acting like little, well you know what's.

papillon
04-16-2010, 09:14 AM
[quote="stlrz d":3sba1pix][quote=papillon]

What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

How so? Because the accuser's side says so?

Well Jerome Bettis says it isn't in Ben's character to behave this way and he doesn't believe Ben would do this kind of thing.

So now what?
Did Ben ever try to have sex with Jerome against his will?
Being that Ben infact said in his first statement that he had sexual contact with the girl, but it was consensual, then it comes out that he walked up to the girl with his pecker out, (you don't make that up), then she said no, and he proceded. As of the law, no means no yada yada yada. Ben raped her. I'm not saying he will be traded, but to still stand behind him and say he is completely innocent just shows how far some fans will drop their moral compass for the hope of winning another championship. The boy has issues with women.


Fot the 1,293,327th time, BEN NEVER said he had SEXUAL contact with the DTFer!

Sources told KDKA Roethlisberger said he had contact with the woman that was not consummated and afterward she slipped and fell, injuring her head.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4984207[/quote:3sba1pix]

Just forget it. People are going to believe what they want to believe. One bozo said that there's no way someone just makes up a story that Ben was walking around with his junk out so there's no doubt he raped her. Don't mind the fact that when she was asked if she was raped she replied, "No". Oh...it's the same bozo that you're correcting here...never mind.

Pap - the point I was trying to make is that people are taking what they read from the accuser's side as the gospel while completely ignoring anything that is coming from Ben's side. That's all. I'm just saying it's a shame people are so quick to believe these horrible things about Ben without even knowing for sure what actually did take place...yet they refuse to believe anything from his side. Don't you find that the least bit troubling?[/quote:3sba1pix]

Maybe, the problem then is that Ben's side isn't talking or putting forth any information to refute the story of the girl, police and DA. If he's completely innocent in this matter he should hold a real news conference, answer the hard questions and put it behind him. I don't believe that is forthcoming; in that event, everyone's perception of this incident is going to be driven by one side of the story.

I haven't heard anything that isn't plausible in her side of the story. Willie Colon has made a few statements that help Ben's side, but until Ben gives his side of the story the only story out there is her side. She's winning the PR battle at this point in time.

Did Ben rape this girl? Probably not
Did Ben have any type of sex with this girl? We don't know, but probably
Was she completely against it? We don't know, but probably not
Did she have buyers remorse in the bathroom? Almost certainly
Did Ben behave poorly? Absolutely
Does the Steeler organization deserve better? Absolutely


Pappy

papillon
04-16-2010, 09:19 AM
Legally speaking, Ben IS innocent. Not debatable.

But I am curious - for those of you thinking he wasn't even acting stupidly, immature, insert what ever word works for you, then why was he called to NY by the Comissioner who's said he's disappointed? Why have the Rooney's held a press conference to talk about coordinating punishment with the NFL. That ben hasn't acted theway they expect a Steeler to act? None of which happened in the first case.

I really don't see how you can say he did not act with poor judgement when everyone else in the world thinks he has - including the two most important people as far as football goes - his owner (which we all recognize as being a great owner - is he wrong this time) and the head of the NFL.


I sure would like to hear his sides entire story first. We know her side were all acting like little, well you know what's.

His side of the story is tawdry or he would have given his side of the story and vehemently denied the whole incident. His attorney is advising him to keep his mouth shut, lose the PR battle, accept his punishment with humility and like a man and let the incident die on its own, then everything will return to normal by the time the season rolls around.

Pappy

Oviedo
04-16-2010, 09:19 AM
Well said Pappy. Well said!!!!!! :Clap :Clap :Clap

This situation is over. Dwell on it as long as you think you need to. The only issue is what happens moving forward with Ben's personal conduct. If he gets his act together then he has the opportunity to earn redemption. One more incident and he deserves a swift and permanent removal.

Ghost
04-16-2010, 09:23 AM
My question in no way had anything to do with only listening to one side of a story thatís being purposefully reported with a slant against Ben. I think her story has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. Add to that her level of intoxication and sheís not credible at all.

I was in a fraternity and knew many sorority girls Ė Iíve no doubt they got together to concoct and collaborate on a ďstoryĒ (and I also believe they are exaggerating if not down right lying about many aspects of the night). Of course things get made up.

What I donít believe is the Rooneyís nor Goodell are making statements or decisions based on one side of the issue because of what they saw on TMZ or read on a website or in the paper. The NFL has a team of ex-FBI agents who work cases such as this investigating what really occurred. When either of them speaks about this incident or hands down a punishment; itís based on a comprehensive review of all the facts from both sides that they were able to gather. Not on a one-sided tabloid type account.

Art Rooney -

"I have made it clear to Ben that his conduct in this incident did not live up to our standards. We have made it very clear to Ben that there will be consequences for his actions, and Ben has indicated to us that he is willing to accept those consequences."

My point was that when Mr. Rooney makes this statement; I believe him. Something went on that night that was of a magnitude of at least warranting a press conference, a public admonishment, and a coming punishment of some sort. Itís telling that none of this took place after the Reno episode because she was clearly (and itís been documented in affidavits as well as the DA refusing to prosecute) a liar and looking for a payout. His only offense there was she was dog ugly. This current situation is different and all parties involved have conducted themselves differently. If there was nothing to the reports conducted by the NFLís people and the local police; I think thatís what we would be hearing. Itís not.

sd steel
04-16-2010, 09:30 AM
[quote="stlrz d":21w9ekvv][quote=papillon]

What? That Ben behaved appropriately, wasn't being a rogue and didn't do anything to embarrass the Steelers? No, I don't believe that. As a matter of fact, the incident pretty much proves that Ben was behaving boorishly, to what degree is all that is in question.

I don't believe he raped the girl, she would have bruised, I don't believe he even had to force her to have sex, but he did have some sort of sex with her against her better judgment.

Continuing to believe that Ben is completely innocent and this nothing more than a money grab is naive.

Pappy

How so? Because the accuser's side says so?

Well Jerome Bettis says it isn't in Ben's character to behave this way and he doesn't believe Ben would do this kind of thing.

So now what?
Did Ben ever try to have sex with Jerome against his will?
Being that Ben infact said in his first statement that he had sexual contact with the girl, but it was consensual, then it comes out that he walked up to the girl with his pecker out, (you don't make that up), then she said no, and he proceded. As of the law, no means no yada yada yada. Ben raped her. I'm not saying he will be traded, but to still stand behind him and say he is completely innocent just shows how far some fans will drop their moral compass for the hope of winning another championship. The boy has issues with women.


Fot the 1,293,327th time, BEN NEVER said he had SEXUAL contact with the DTFer!

Sources told KDKA Roethlisberger said he had contact with the woman that was not consummated and afterward she slipped and fell, injuring her head.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4984207[/quote:21w9ekvv]

Just forget it. People are going to believe what they want to believe. One bozo said that there's no way someone just makes up a story that Ben was walking around with his junk out so there's no doubt he raped her. Don't mind the fact that when she was asked if she was raped she replied, "No". Oh...it's the same bozo that you're correcting here...never mind.

Pap - the point I was trying to make is that people are taking what they read from the accuser's side as the gospel while completely ignoring anything that is coming from Ben's side. That's all. I'm just saying it's a shame people are so quick to believe these horrible things about Ben without even knowing for sure what actually did take place...yet they refuse to believe anything from his side. Don't you find that the least bit troubling?[/quote:21w9ekvv]
Why do you feel the need to call me names? Just argue your point, no need to attack me.

papillon
04-16-2010, 09:51 AM
My question in no way had anything to do with only listening to one side of a story thatís being purposefully reported with a slant against Ben. I think her story has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. Add to that her level of intoxication and sheís not credible at all.

I was in a fraternity and knew many sorority girls Ė Iíve no doubt they got together to concoct and collaborate on a ďstoryĒ (and I also believe they are exaggerating if not down right lying about many aspects of the night). Of course things get made up.

What I donít believe is the Rooneyís nor Goodell are making statements or decisions based on one side of the issue because of what they saw on TMZ or read on a website or in the paper. The NFL has a team of ex-FBI agents who work cases such as this investigating what really occurred. When either of them speaks about this incident or hands down a punishment; itís based on a comprehensive review of all the facts from both sides that they were able to gather. Not on a one-sided tabloid type account.

Art Rooney -

"I have made it clear to Ben that his conduct in this incident did not live up to our standards. We have made it very clear to Ben that there will be consequences for his actions, and Ben has indicated to us that he is willing to accept those consequences."

My point was that when Mr. Rooney makes this statement; I believe him. Something went on that night that was of a magnitude of at least warranting a press conference, a public admonishment, and a coming punishment of some sort. Itís telling that none of this took place after the Reno episode because she was clearly (and itís been documented in affidavits as well as the DA refusing to prosecute) a liar and looking for a payout. His only offense there was she was dog ugly. This current situation is different and all parties involved have conducted themselves differently. If there was nothing to the reports conducted by the NFLís people and the local police; I think thatís what we would be hearing. Itís not.

:Agree There it is; excellent Ghost, most excellent.

Pappy

SteelAbility
04-16-2010, 09:57 AM
My question in no way had anything to do with only listening to one side of a story thatís being purposefully reported with a slant against Ben. I think her story has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. Add to that her level of intoxication and sheís not credible at all.

I was in a fraternity and knew many sorority girls Ė Iíve no doubt they got together to concoct and collaborate on a ďstoryĒ (and I also believe they are exaggerating if not down right lying about many aspects of the night). Of course things get made up.

What I donít believe is the Rooneyís nor Goodell are making statements or decisions based on one side of the issue because of what they saw on TMZ or read on a website or in the paper. The NFL has a team of ex-FBI agents who work cases such as this investigating what really occurred. When either of them speaks about this incident or hands down a punishment; itís based on a comprehensive review of all the facts from both sides that they were able to gather. Not on a one-sided tabloid type account.

Art Rooney -

"I have made it clear to Ben that his conduct in this incident did not live up to our standards. We have made it very clear to Ben that there will be consequences for his actions, and Ben has indicated to us that he is willing to accept those consequences."

My point was that when Mr. Rooney makes this statement; I believe him. Something went on that night that was of a magnitude of at least warranting a press conference, a public admonishment, and a coming punishment of some sort. Itís telling that none of this took place after the Reno episode because she was clearly (and itís been documented in affidavits as well as the DA refusing to prosecute) a liar and looking for a payout. His only offense there was she was dog ugly. This current situation is different and all parties involved have conducted themselves differently. If there was nothing to the reports conducted by the NFLís people and the local police; I think thatís what we would be hearing. Itís not.

:Agree There it is; excellent Ghost, most excellent.

Pappy

also :Agree x1,000,000

papillon
04-16-2010, 10:10 AM
What I am also finding very interesting at this point is that there are at least 5 or 6 girls full names and even a couple addresses in the police reports and yet, we can't find out what the accuser's name is. How can that possibly be in this day and age of iphones, smart phones, internet, digital cameras, etc that not one other person form that University has posted pictures of the girl(s), their names, etc on some facebook page, twitter or myspace?

How can only this little Georgia town be the only place that this girl's name will be known, it's unfathomable.

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-16-2010, 10:33 AM
The DA needs the alleged victim to testify to prosecute.
No DNA, No video, No witnesses, He needs the victim on the stand.
If the alleged victim will not cooperate...He has now case.
He had no evidence to charge without her.
She has the right not to go forward with it.

The investigation files were made public. The league office has them along with all the information collected by the league investigators. Goodell's office is not a court room.

Goodell, "Were you drinking?"
Ben,"?"
Goodell, "Were you intoxicated?"
Ben,"?"
Goodell, "Ben, Did you buy alcohol for the girls in your party?"
Ben,"?"
Goodell, "Were you aware some of them were underage?"
Ben,"?"
Goodell, "Did your bodyguard escort this young lady to a secluded area?"
Ben,"?"
Goodell, "Was that your instructions?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did she consent to this?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did you approach here with your penis exposed?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did you initiate sexual contact with her?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did she consent to this?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did she, at any point say no?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did she try to get away and run into the bathroom?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did you follow her into the bathroom?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did she ask you to follow her?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did you have sex with her in the bathroom?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did you force yourself on her?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did she say no at any point in the bathroom?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "At what point did she fall down and hit her head?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Did she appear to be inebriated at any point during this ordeal?"
Ben, "?"
Goodell, "Do you think it was a good decision to have consentual sex, with an inebriated underage college student, that you supplied the alcohol to, in a public place, as a player for the NFL?"
Ben, "?"

All other facts aside, isn't the last statement alone enough to get Ben in trouble with the league?

Sugar
04-16-2010, 11:29 AM
You guys need to also understand though that there is a difference between a civil case (McNulty) and a criminal case (drunk sorority girl). The amount of information you will give and the burden are different in each case. Ben is probably acting on the advice of counsel and won't be saying anything.

If this went down as has been written, I'll expect to see some type of IA investigations into the police officers that were acting as Ben's bodyguards in this case. Off duty or not, they still have responsibilities.

steelblood
04-16-2010, 11:48 AM
Ben is a risk taker and does things his own way on and off the field. He constantly pissed off Cowher by speaking his mind and contradicting Cowher's injury reports. He holds the ball way longer than he should sometimes creating amazing plays, sometimes nearly getting himself killed. He has sex (or sexual contact) with average looking strangers (drunk and unstable) even though he is totally famous and has dated goddesses. Heck, having sex with any stranger is a crapshoot these days. Ben is the "id". He often doesn't think things through; instead, he experiences them and improvises. Ben has always lacked a degree of discretion (and likely maturity). Now, he needs to play catchup while simultaneously trying to rebuild his image. It is a tall order and will require a change in his fundamental way of thinking.

hawaiiansteel
04-16-2010, 11:55 AM
Ben is a risk taker and does things his own way on and off the field. He constantly pissed off Cowher by speaking his mind and contradicting Cowher's injury reports. He holds the ball way longer than he should sometimes creating amazing plays, sometimes nearly getting himself killed. He has sex (or sexual contact) with average looking strangers (drunk and unstable) even though he is totally famous and has dated goddesses. Heck, having sex with any stranger is a crapshoot these days. Ben is the "id". He often doesn't think things through; instead, he experiences them and improvises. Ben has always lacked a degree of discretion (and likely maturity). Now, he needs to play catchup while simultaneously trying to rebuild his image. It is a tall order and will require a change in his fundamental way of thinking.



why do you think Ben needs to rebuild his image? :roll:

http://rapelisberger.com/Rapelisberger-Back.jpg

aggiebones
04-16-2010, 01:11 PM
Ben's camp is going to just let this die a slow painful death. By chatting about it, he'll only bring up more ugliness. Really not other choice, but to live in a hole for awhile.

Not to mention if he talks now and some other bimbo comes out of the woodworks, he'd half to talk about that too. Ben has likely had alot of random sex over the last 5 years. So becoming a hermit is his only option. Time heals all wounds and we all know that.

ANPSTEEL
04-16-2010, 01:27 PM
Its looking more and more likely that Ben is not going to be with the team.

The continued negative media coverage, and fan outrage, would seem certain to doom his future with the team.

The dilemma for the Steelers is, can they get enough in return to make a trade worth it??

Here are my thoughts regarding this-

Assuming the Steelers front office has decided Ben needs to go-

If they are unable to obtain at least 2 first round picks in return at this time...

I'd suspend Ben for the entire season. (even if the League suspends him for only 2 games w/o pay-) This way the media scrutiny would disappear, and the Steelers could fine Ben something equivalent to 50% or more of his 2010 salary.

They could sign some vet QB for a reasonable amount (equivalent to what they fine Ben).
They'd go with Dixon and the vet to be signed (Leftwhich??) for the season.

Then- next off season, once all the negative scrutiny has passed, and he becomes less of a "media hand grenade" for the League and other prospective teams - then they trade him.

This would allow the team to:
-do the right thing image-wise (per the media and fan scrutiny)
-cover their financial losses
-evaluate Dixon
-obtain the most in return for a franchise QB the would normally garner multiple 1st round picks in compensation.


Good Luck Ben

BURGH86STEEL
04-16-2010, 01:48 PM
Its looking more and more likely that Ben is not going to be with the team.

The continued negative media coverage, and fan outrage, would seem certain to doom his future with the team.

The dilemma for the Steelers is, can they get enough in return to make a trade worth it??

Here are my thoughts regarding this-

Assuming the Steelers front office has decided Ben needs to go-

If they are unable to obtain at least 2 first round picks in return at this time...

I'd suspend Ben for the entire season. (even if the League suspends him for only 2 games w/o pay-) This way the media scrutiny would disappear, and the Steelers could fine Ben something equivalent to 50% or more of his 2010 salary.

They could sign some vet QB for a reasonable amount (equivalent to what they fine Ben).
They'd go with Dixon and the vet to be signed (Leftwhich??) for the season.

Then- next off season, once all the negative scrutiny has passed, and he becomes less of a "media hand grenade" for the League and other prospective teams - then they trade him.

This would allow the team to:
-do the right thing image-wise (per the media and fan scrutiny)
-cover their financial losses
-evaluate Dixon
-obtain the most in return for a franchise QB the would normally garner multiple 1st round picks in compensation.


Good Luck Ben

I think there were probably serious talks within the organization about what to do with Ben? Not sure what value teams around the league place on a player like Ben. Fans seem to usually place more value on their own players then other teams.

I don't think Ben should be suspended for the entire season. Only time will heal the relationship between Ben, the league, the fans, and organization. There are some fans that will never come to terms with the way Ben treated that young lady.

Sugar
04-16-2010, 01:55 PM
Its looking more and more likely that Ben is not going to be with the team.

The continued negative media coverage, and fan outrage, would seem certain to doom his future with the team.

The dilemma for the Steelers is, can they get enough in return to make a trade worth it??

Here are my thoughts regarding this-

Assuming the Steelers front office has decided Ben needs to go-

If they are unable to obtain at least 2 first round picks in return at this time...

I'd suspend Ben for the entire season. (even if the League suspends him for only 2 games w/o pay-) This way the media scrutiny would disappear, and the Steelers could fine Ben something equivalent to 50% or more of his 2010 salary.

They could sign some vet QB for a reasonable amount (equivalent to what they fine Ben).
They'd go with Dixon and the vet to be signed (Leftwhich??) for the season.

Then- next off season, once all the negative scrutiny has passed, and he becomes less of a "media hand grenade" for the League and other prospective teams - then they trade him.

This would allow the team to:
-do the right thing image-wise (per the media and fan scrutiny)
-cover their financial losses
-evaluate Dixon
-obtain the most in return for a franchise QB the would normally garner multiple 1st round picks in compensation.


Good Luck Ben

Um, no to just about everything but the "Good Luck Ben" part. :2c

Ghost
04-16-2010, 01:58 PM
I think he's staying and the Rooney's will give him a chance to "redeam' himself, whatever they consider that to be.

With that said, what about AZ? Warner is gone, Lienert is not the answer, and I'm guessing Whis would love to have him out there where he makes a fresh start and a fan base who'll be excited to have a legit QB? No idea what they could give for him though.**

**this is just for off season discussion purposes. No legitmate thought was put into these musings....

NW Steeler
04-16-2010, 02:07 PM
For those of you that think Ben should be traded, I hope that you are willing to wait another 30 years for a 7th SB title. Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal. He deserves a chance to redeem himself IN Pittsburgh.

Oviedo
04-16-2010, 02:31 PM
For those of you that think Ben should be traded, I hope that you are willing to wait another 30 years for a 7th SB title. Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal. He deserves a chance to redeem himself IN Pittsburgh.

:Agree

steelblood
04-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal.

-technically
-for now
-possibly because of his wallet

This idea that since he wasn't charged, he is innocent of any crime is off. He may be more than an *******. I hope not. But, the possibility certainly exists.

papillon
04-16-2010, 02:50 PM
For those of you that think Ben should be traded, I hope that you are willing to wait another 30 years for a 7th SB title. Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal. He deserves a chance to redeem himself IN Pittsburgh.

I don't think he should be traded, but the 49ers and the Seahawks have two picks in the first round. Each of them could use a franchise quarterback with the most wins in the history of the NFL in his first 6 years.

Trade with Seahawks for 2 firsts nets: 6/14/18
Trade with 49ers for 2 firsts nets 13/17/18

The Rams need a lot of help, package 1.6/1.14 and our third round pick to move into 1.1 and take Bradford. That leaves the Steelers with their 1.18 and 1.50 plus all the lower round picks for the rest of the draft. (I know the 1.6/1.14 and our third round doesn't add up to 3000, but it's close)

If the trade with 49ers were to materialize keep the picks and select any combination of impact players with the 3 first round selections.

The Steelers wouldn't be as bad as many think if they were to trade Ben and get draft picks. The Steeler front office has done well at evaluating 1st round talent.

Pappy

hawaiiansteel
04-16-2010, 02:51 PM
Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal.

-technically
-for now
-possibly because of his wallet

This idea that since he wasn't charged, he is innocent of any crime is off. He may be more than an bad word. I hope not. But, the possibility certainly exists.



Officer who took first Roethlisberger report resigns

Friday, April 16, 2010
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


The Milledgeville, Ga., police officer who took the first report from the woman who accused Ben Roethlisberger of rape has resigned.

Milledgeville police Chief Woodrow Blue confirmed that Sgt. Jerry Blash has left the force.

A friend of the accuser told investigators that it seemed at first that Mr. Blash was not going to take a report on the incident the night it occurred. She said Mr. Blash then said he would but noted that Mr. Roethlisberger has wealth and access to lawyers and that they would be wasting their time.

One of the quarterback's bodyguards also quoted Mr. Blash as making derogatory comments about the accuser.



Read more: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10106/105 ... z0lI4n8ySu (http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10106/1050975-66.stm#ixzz0lI4n8ySu)

Slapstick
04-16-2010, 03:04 PM
This idea that since he wasn't charged, he is innocent of any crime is off. He may be more than an bad word. I hope not. But, the possibility certainly exists.

This idea that since he was accused, he is guilty is equally off...

NW Steeler
04-16-2010, 03:05 PM
For those of you that think Ben should be traded, I hope that you are willing to wait another 30 years for a 7th SB title. Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal. He deserves a chance to redeem himself IN Pittsburgh.

I don't think he should be traded, but the 49ers and the Seahawks have two picks in the first round. Each of them could use a franchise quarterback with the most wins in the history of the NFL in his first 6 years.

Trade with Seahawks for 2 firsts nets: 6/14/18
Trade with 49ers for 2 firsts nets 13/17/18

The Rams need a lot of help, package 1.6/1.14 and our third round pick to move into 1.1 and take Bradford. That leaves the Steelers with their 1.18 and 1.50 plus all the lower round picks for the rest of the draft. (I know the 1.6/1.14 and our third round doesn't add up to 3000, but it's close)

If the trade with 49ers were to materialize keep the picks and select any combination of impact players with the 3 first round selections.

The Steelers wouldn't be as bad as many think if they were to trade Ben and get draft picks. The Steeler front office has done well at evaluating 1st round talent.

Pappy

The only way I would even consider it from a trade standpoint would be for the Rams #1 and their second round pick this year, and another pick next year in the first or second round. Ben is a franchise QB and is worth more than the Hawks or 9ers 2 picks. We would have to have the top pick and then some.

Sugar
04-16-2010, 03:39 PM
This idea that since he wasn't charged, he is innocent of any crime is off. He may be more than an bad word. I hope not. But, the possibility certainly exists.

This idea that since he was accused, he is guilty is equally off...

Exactly- remember there is a presumption of innocence, not guilt. That's even after enough evidence has been gathered to make a charge. What happened with Ben didn't even get that far.

Lebsteel
04-16-2010, 03:48 PM
For those of you that think Ben should be traded, I hope that you are willing to wait another 30 years for a 7th SB title. Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal. He deserves a chance to redeem himself IN Pittsburgh.

I don't think he should be traded, but the 49ers and the Seahawks have two picks in the first round. Each of them could use a franchise quarterback with the most wins in the history of the NFL in his first 6 years.

Trade with Seahawks for 2 firsts nets: 6/14/18
Trade with 49ers for 2 firsts nets 13/17/18

The Rams need a lot of help, package 1.6/1.14 and our third round pick to move into 1.1 and take Bradford. That leaves the Steelers with their 1.18 and 1.50 plus all the lower round picks for the rest of the draft. (I know the 1.6/1.14 and our third round doesn't add up to 3000, but it's close)

If the trade with 49ers were to materialize keep the picks and select any combination of impact players with the 3 first round selections.

The Steelers wouldn't be as bad as many think if they were to trade Ben and get draft picks. The Steeler front office has done well at evaluating 1st round talent.

Pappy
I don't think anyone was happier than I was when we drafted Ben. I jumped up and down all over the living room when they announced we picked Ben. I watched Ben at Miami of Ohio (we live about 40 miles from there) and told my son that Ben was the guy who would take the Steelers back to the Super Bowl. All we had to do was draft this guy. So, fast forward seven years....I am bitterly disappointed in this jack*** Yea, he wasn't charged, but he is obviously very lucky that he wasn't, possibly due to him paying off the "victim." If you think otherwise, you probably need to pull your head out of the "sand."

Having said that, I realize what trading Ben would do to our team in the short-term, BUT, in the long-term, if we could get Seattle's first two picks, I think it would be best for the team. Look what he has done to this board. We seem to be split 50/50 on whether Ben should stay or go. Just imagine the locker room...

Sugar
04-16-2010, 04:04 PM
I'm trying to understand why anyone thinks that the girl was "paid off." Could it have happened? Sure, but it's not likely and no my head isn't in the sand. Isn't it just as likely that the girl or her family didn't want to put themselves through a trial?

Of course, my thinking is that she did some stupid things and probably lied and didn't want that to come out in court.

I'm still stunned that so many Steeler fans are willing to take her testimony, regardless of physical evidence as having any shred of truth.

If Ben is sent packing, I'll continue to root for him anywhere he goes. I think he's a good guy and plays the game the way I like to see it played. I'll still be a Steelers fan (of course) but my respect for the organization will be reduced even more than it already has been.

fezziwig
04-16-2010, 04:06 PM
Everything points too the Rooneys letting him go. Everything except the win lose column. If Ben was less than average the Rooneys would let him go. He brings in money and championships. If Ben does one more stupid thing he will be gone before the rumor gets out.

As someone said, it would take a king ransom for the Steelers to let him go on a deal. It will take one more stupid incident for Ben to get tossed off the team.

AngryAsian
04-16-2010, 04:07 PM
For those of you that think Ben should be traded, I hope that you are willing to wait another 30 years for a 7th SB title. Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal. He deserves a chance to redeem himself IN Pittsburgh.

I don't think he should be traded, but the 49ers and the Seahawks have two picks in the first round. Each of them could use a franchise quarterback with the most wins in the history of the NFL in his first 6 years.

Trade with Seahawks for 2 firsts nets: 6/14/18
Trade with 49ers for 2 firsts nets 13/17/18

The Rams need a lot of help, package 1.6/1.14 and our third round pick to move into 1.1 and take Bradford. That leaves the Steelers with their 1.18 and 1.50 plus all the lower round picks for the rest of the draft. (I know the 1.6/1.14 and our third round doesn't add up to 3000, but it's close)

If the trade with 49ers were to materialize keep the picks and select any combination of impact players with the 3 first round selections.

The Steelers wouldn't be as bad as many think if they were to trade Ben and get draft picks. The Steeler front office has done well at evaluating 1st round talent.

Pappy
I don't think anyone was happier than I was when we drafted Ben. I jumped up and down all over the living room when they announced we picked Ben. I watched Ben at Miami of Ohio (we live about 40 miles from there) and told my son that Ben was the guy who would take the Steelers back to the Super Bowl. All we had to do was draft this guy. So, fast forward seven years....I am bitterly disappointed in this jack*** Yea, he wasn't charged, but he is obviously very lucky that he wasn't, possibly due to him paying off the "victim." If you think otherwise, you probably need to pull your head out of the "sand."

Having said that, I realize what trading Ben would do to our team in the short-term, BUT, in the long-term, if we could get Seattle's first two picks, I think it would be best for the team. Look what he has done to this board. We seem to be split 50/50 on whether Ben should stay or go. Just imagine the locker room...


It appears that taking the high road on this one is trumped by the promise of yet another SB ring. I don't think anybody can say I'm a downer... in fact, most who've met me on this board have characterized me as a bit of an optimist. So in a very uncharacteristic manner, I'll just say this... we won't be going back to the BIG DANCE this season. Why? The two years that Ben has had off-the-field issues to contend with prior to the start of a season, we never made it past the first round of the playoffs. And this is arguably the most embattled preseason he's had since being drafted. I'm with Leb on the fact that the locker room will probably have some kind of divisional line on the Ben issues.

Sugar
04-16-2010, 04:10 PM
For those of you that think Ben should be traded, I hope that you are willing to wait another 30 years for a 7th SB title. Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal. He deserves a chance to redeem himself IN Pittsburgh.

I don't think he should be traded, but the 49ers and the Seahawks have two picks in the first round. Each of them could use a franchise quarterback with the most wins in the history of the NFL in his first 6 years.

Trade with Seahawks for 2 firsts nets: 6/14/18
Trade with 49ers for 2 firsts nets 13/17/18

The Rams need a lot of help, package 1.6/1.14 and our third round pick to move into 1.1 and take Bradford. That leaves the Steelers with their 1.18 and 1.50 plus all the lower round picks for the rest of the draft. (I know the 1.6/1.14 and our third round doesn't add up to 3000, but it's close)

If the trade with 49ers were to materialize keep the picks and select any combination of impact players with the 3 first round selections.

The Steelers wouldn't be as bad as many think if they were to trade Ben and get draft picks. The Steeler front office has done well at evaluating 1st round talent.

Pappy
I don't think anyone was happier than I was when we drafted Ben. I jumped up and down all over the living room when they announced we picked Ben. I watched Ben at Miami of Ohio (we live about 40 miles from there) and told my son that Ben was the guy who would take the Steelers back to the Super Bowl. All we had to do was draft this guy. So, fast forward seven years....I am bitterly disappointed in this jack*** Yea, he wasn't charged, but he is obviously very lucky that he wasn't, possibly due to him paying off the "victim." If you think otherwise, you probably need to pull your head out of the "sand."

Having said that, I realize what trading Ben would do to our team in the short-term, BUT, in the long-term, if we could get Seattle's first two picks, I think it would be best for the team. Look what he has done to this board. We seem to be split 50/50 on whether Ben should stay or go. Just imagine the locker room...


It appears that taking the high road on this one is trumped by the promise of yet another SB ring. I don't think anybody can say I'm a downer... in fact, most who've met me on this board have characterized me as a bit of an optimist. So in a very uncharacteristic manner, I'll just say this... we won't be going back to the BIG DANCE this season. Why? The two years that Ben has had off-the-field issues to contend with prior to the start of a season, we never made it past the first round of the playoffs. And this is arguably the most embattled preseason he's had since being drafted. I'm with Leb on the fact that the locker room will probably have some kind of divisional line on the Ben issues.

Out of curiousity, what is the "high road" in your opinion? I'm assuming it's not what Santonio Holmes would say.

AngryAsian
04-16-2010, 04:25 PM
For those of you that think Ben should be traded, I hope that you are willing to wait another 30 years for a 7th SB title. Ben is an azzhole, not a criminal. He deserves a chance to redeem himself IN Pittsburgh.

I don't think he should be traded, but the 49ers and the Seahawks have two picks in the first round. Each of them could use a franchise quarterback with the most wins in the history of the NFL in his first 6 years.

Trade with Seahawks for 2 firsts nets: 6/14/18
Trade with 49ers for 2 firsts nets 13/17/18

The Rams need a lot of help, package 1.6/1.14 and our third round pick to move into 1.1 and take Bradford. That leaves the Steelers with their 1.18 and 1.50 plus all the lower round picks for the rest of the draft. (I know the 1.6/1.14 and our third round doesn't add up to 3000, but it's close)

If the trade with 49ers were to materialize keep the picks and select any combination of impact players with the 3 first round selections.

The Steelers wouldn't be as bad as many think if they were to trade Ben and get draft picks. The Steeler front office has done well at evaluating 1st round talent.

Pappy
I don't think anyone was happier than I was when we drafted Ben. I jumped up and down all over the living room when they announced we picked Ben. I watched Ben at Miami of Ohio (we live about 40 miles from there) and told my son that Ben was the guy who would take the Steelers back to the Super Bowl. All we had to do was draft this guy. So, fast forward seven years....I am bitterly disappointed in this jack*** Yea, he wasn't charged, but he is obviously very lucky that he wasn't, possibly due to him paying off the "victim." If you think otherwise, you probably need to pull your head out of the "sand."

Having said that, I realize what trading Ben would do to our team in the short-term, BUT, in the long-term, if we could get Seattle's first two picks, I think it would be best for the team. Look what he has done to this board. We seem to be split 50/50 on whether Ben should stay or go. Just imagine the locker room...


It appears that taking the high road on this one is trumped by the promise of yet another SB ring. I don't think anybody can say I'm a downer... in fact, most who've met me on this board have characterized me as a bit of an optimist. So in a very uncharacteristic manner, I'll just say this... we won't be going back to the BIG DANCE this season. Why? The two years that Ben has had off-the-field issues to contend with prior to the start of a season, we never made it past the first round of the playoffs. And this is arguably the most embattled preseason he's had since being drafted. I'm with Leb on the fact that the locker room will probably have some kind of divisional line on the Ben issues.

Out of curiousity, what is the "high road" in your opinion? I'm assuming it's not what Santonio Holmes would say.


When we took Roethlisberger, in 2004 I was stoked beyond belief. And when we finally won one for the thumb, I literally cried (probably still suffering the overflow of emotions from my daughter's birth six days prior). I waited 25+ years between championships. To see another one added for good measure with the spectacular win at SB XLIII, and Ben being the architect of the now fabled game winning drive... had filled me with a greater sense of pride.

My point "high road" is this... I waited 25+ years, I can wait another 25 (though I don't want to). If the FO decides to vacate our franchise QB to save the face of the organization from any further embarrassment... then so be it. I think the FO's move to give Ben an opportunity to redeem himself is the right one, but if the Rooney's feel its too much negative publicity to have to whether, I'm not going to stop supporting this team. I love the organization first and the pieces that comprise the team will always come second. The high road is making the very difficult decision of ridding themselves of Ben's services, to save face. I know that's not an appetizing notion for most (including myself), but I surely can understand the merit in keeping the organization's zero tolerance for F*ck ups in tact.

ANPSTEEL
04-16-2010, 04:33 PM
...
My point "high road" is this... I waited 25+ years, I can wait another 25 (though I don't want to). If the FO decides to vacate our franchise QB to save the face of the organization from any further embarrassment... then so be it. I think the FO's move to give Ben an opportunity to redeem himself is the right one, but if the Rooney's feel its too much negative publicity to have to whether, I'm not going to stop supporting this team. I love the organization first and the pieces that comprise the team will always come second. The high road is making the very difficult decision of ridding themselves of Ben's services, to save face. I know that's not an appetizing notion for most (including myself), but I surely can understand the merit in keeping the organization's zero tolerance for F*ck ups in tact.

Well said AA.

Lebsteel
04-16-2010, 04:56 PM
...
My point "high road" is this... I waited 25+ years, I can wait another 25 (though I don't want to). If the FO decides to vacate our franchise QB to save the face of the organization from any further embarrassment... then so be it. I think the FO's move to give Ben an opportunity to redeem himself is the right one, but if the Rooney's feel its too much negative publicity to have to whether, I'm not going to stop supporting this team. I love the organization first and the pieces that comprise the team will always come second. The high road is making the very difficult decision of ridding themselves of Ben's services, to save face. I know that's not an appetizing notion for most (including myself), but I surely can understand the merit in keeping the organization's zero tolerance for F*ck ups in tact.

Well said AA.
:Clap :Clap :Clap

Sugar
04-16-2010, 05:48 PM
I guess I always thought of the high road as doing the right thing even when it wasn't popular. In this case, people seem to be advocating (or at least blessing) getting rid of Ben because of "bad publicity" or "embarassment" not because Ben actually did something really wrong. To me, bailing on someone who has been important to you out of expediency is a punk's way out.

Fortunately, I believe the Rooney's to be above all that. I would hate to see the Steelers consigned to being less on the field than what they could be because they were so worried about what other people think of them.

:2c

NJ-STEELER
04-16-2010, 06:15 PM
Ben should just come out and say he tried to baptise that chick in the commode



then the FO will forgive him and probably sign him to a huge extension

Lebsteel
04-16-2010, 07:03 PM
I guess I always thought of the high road as doing the right thing even when it wasn't popular. In this case, people seem to be advocating (or at least blessing) getting rid of Ben because of "bad publicity" or "embarassment" not because Ben actually did something really wrong. To me, bailing on someone who has been important to you out of expediency is a punk's way out.

Fortunately, I believe the Rooney's to be above all that. I would hate to see the Steelers consigned to being less on the field than what they could be because they were so worried about what other people think of them.

:2c
Sugar, c'mon...pull your head out of the sand. Read the police reports and listen to what has been said and what has not been said. Would the NFL and the Steeler FO plan on disciplining Ben if he was totally innocent? Really? Ben is a jack*** Unfortunately, the only unknowns are whether Ben actually forced himself on the girl or it was consensual and the real reason the girl doesn't want to continue with her accusations. If the girls' stories were TOTALLY made up, we would know that by now. Ben is very lucky. Don't you think Ben or the bodyguards would say that none of it ever happened by now if it didn't happen?

feltdizz
04-16-2010, 07:42 PM
This is why I was so frustrated with Ben. It's not the innocence or guilt but the drama of it all. Some think Ben is guilty of stupidity... some think his silence clearly shows some guilt... and some think the lack of charges shows Ben is a boy scout who walks on water. I kid about the water part but seriously... anyone who thinks Ben s squeaky clean due to the lack of evidence is delusional.

I don't think Ben will be traded because our FO wants to win and Ben has time on his side. I wouldn't trade Ben either... but like the Rooneys did, I wouldn't stand next to Ben in any press confereces in the near future.

Now the lockerroom is definitely split because Holmes was a playmaker and whether we like to admit it or not... Holmes walked us to the second SB title. The Baltimore toe tap, The San Diego punt return, the AFC championship shuffle to the endzone, the last drive and amazing catch...
We are going to miss Holmes but he didn't help his situation on Twitter... Players will still see Ben as the $100 million dollar man who can get away with a lot and ruin or jeopardize their season with little repercussion.

But I remember Faneca slamming our FO a few times and we kept him.

Sugar
04-16-2010, 09:34 PM
I guess I always thought of the high road as doing the right thing even when it wasn't popular. In this case, people seem to be advocating (or at least blessing) getting rid of Ben because of "bad publicity" or "embarassment" not because Ben actually did something really wrong. To me, bailing on someone who has been important to you out of expediency is a punk's way out.

Fortunately, I believe the Rooney's to be above all that. I would hate to see the Steelers consigned to being less on the field than what they could be because they were so worried about what other people think of them.

:2c
Sugar, c'mon...pull your head out of the sand. Read the police reports and listen to what has been said and what has not been said. Would the NFL and the Steeler FO plan on disciplining Ben if he was totally innocent? Really? Ben is a jack*** Unfortunately, the only unknowns are whether Ben actually forced himself on the girl or it was consensual and the real reason the girl doesn't want to continue with her accusations. If the girls' stories were TOTALLY made up, we would know that by now. Ben is very lucky. Don't you think Ben or the bodyguards would say that none of it ever happened by now if it didn't happen?

Excuse me? What makes you think that you have anymore insight into this than I do? I've read all that stuff and believe that Ben is probably innocent of any crime. All the salacious stuff makes headlines and gets readers but doesn't make it true. People love hero's and they love to watch them crash and burn. The Tiger Woods story was getting old so here's another hero to burn. Whatever.

If Ben were to make a statement of the nature you suggest it could be a very bad idea in a criminal matter. He's probably being advised by council to keep his trap shut and the bodyguards have probably gotten the same advice. Do you think that if this were true that the bodyguards wouldn't be facing Internal Affairs investigations since they are, indeed, police officers?

DukieBoy
04-16-2010, 09:39 PM
...
My point "high road" is this... I waited 25+ years, I can wait another 25 (though I don't want to). If the FO decides to vacate our franchise QB to save the face of the organization from any further embarrassment... then so be it. I think the FO's move to give Ben an opportunity to redeem himself is the right one, but if the Rooney's feel its too much negative publicity to have to whether, I'm not going to stop supporting this team. I love the organization first and the pieces that comprise the team will always come second. The high road is making the very difficult decision of ridding themselves of Ben's services, to save face. I know that's not an appetizing notion for most (including myself), but I surely can understand the merit in keeping the organization's zero tolerance for F*ck ups in tact.

Well said AA.
:Clap :Clap :Clap

X2

(and I'll be 83 in 25 yrs)

brothervad
04-16-2010, 10:11 PM
Although some may think that a trade is unlikely given the Rooney's stance, I actually think it is still up for debate.

I think if they are considering a trade, they are not going to hold a press conference and assassinate his character.

Fact is, by saying Ben is in compliance, suggests he is willing to rehabilitate and may increase his trade value by stating such.

I am not suggesting that is what the Steelers are planning, but it could still happen, and as more and more of the details of this whole episode (an others) start to come out, it may change there stance on draft day.

Just sayin...

brothervad

Northern_Blitz
04-16-2010, 10:46 PM
As someone said, it would take a king ransom for the Steelers to let him go on a deal. It will take one more stupid incident for Ben to get tossed off the team.

The problem with that is that after the next labour contract we might have a salary cap again. We can trade him this year without limiting the cash we spend on other players. I think any new deal will have a cap again.

If that happens we can't move him because the cap hit would be crushing. If we don't move him this off season, we can't really move him until he gets closer to the end of his deal. The window for a trade is now. I hope we don't take it, but I won't be too upset if we do.

stlrz d
04-16-2010, 11:13 PM
He's not going anywhere.

Get over it already.

Sugar
04-16-2010, 11:26 PM
He's not going anywhere.

Get over it already.

From your keyboard to God's ears!

brothervad
04-16-2010, 11:27 PM
He's not going anywhere.

Get over it already.

I don't think it's a 100% surety stlrz d:

Steelers have internally discussed trading Roethlisberger

The Pittsburgh Steelers haven't talked with other teams about dealing embattled quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, but they've had significant internal discussions about the matter, a source with knowledge of the situation said Thursday.

According to the source, Steelers ownership remains dismayed and embarrassed by Roethlisberger's actions in a Georgia college town this offseason and finds his string of off-the-field incidents troubling. The team has been closely monitoring the public backlash against Roethlisberger.

Goodell stresses conduct policy
NFL Commissioner
Roger Goodell issued a memo to all clubs last Wednesday, stressing to all parties the importance of the league's personal-conduct policy. More ... "The Rooneys are livid," the source said.

A Georgia district attorney decided not to hand down sexual-assault criminal charges against Roethlisberger on Monday, but the Steelers, as well as the NFL, could impose their own discipline on him.

Roethlisberger met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Tuesday. Goodell said Wednesday that he would make a decision on Roethlisberger's status "in the near future."

The Steelers' front office has talked internally about possible trade scenarios that could be feasible and what makes sense for the team. According to a source, if other teams called about Roethlisberger, the Steelers would intently listen.

The Steelers could envision several trade scenarios, but they're skeptical about other teams taking on Roethlisberger, given his baggage. However, they also realize his contract is tradeable in an uncapped year, with the bonuses already paid and Roethlisberger signed for six more years at a manageable salary for a franchise quarterback ($8.05 million in 2010, $11.6 million per year from 2011 to 2014, and $12.1 million in 2015).

In particular, the Steelers are enamored with likely No. 1 overall draft pick Sam Bradford. They essentially view Bradford as a sure-thing franchise quarterback and have considered what it would take to move up to the No. 1 pick in a trade with the St. Louis Rams, according to a source. However, the Steelers know executing such a move would be highly difficult, and they figure the Rams have limited interest in Roethlisberger.

Steelers officials aren't worried about how Roethlisberger's return will impact the locker room. The Rooneys' concern is born of the history and prestige of their franchise, the recent fan backlash and public perception about Roethlisberger and their belief that no player is bigger than the team.

However, the source noted that this isn't "a Santonio Holmes situation," alluding to the Steelers dumping the talented but troubled receiver for a fifth-round pick over the weekend as he faced a four-game suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.


HQ video delivered by Akamai
"This is not a case of having to get rid of this guy,'" the source said. "There would have to be fair value."

Roethlisberger, drafted 11th overall in 2004, has performed at an elite level for the Steelers. He's among the winningest quarterbacks for his age and already possesses two Super Bowl rings. His size, improvisational skills and ability to escape the rush and deliver the ball to all parts of the field make him among the best in the league.

Should Roethlisberger have another off-the-field misstep, however, his Steelers career likely would be over, according to team and league sources. And, if a legitimate trade scenario materialized, that end could come much sooner.

Teams that aren't committed long-term to a starting quarterback include the Rams, Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns, Oakland Raiders, San Francisco 49ers, Denver Broncos, Carolina Panthers, Seattle Seahawks and Arizona Cardinals.

The Steelers refused to entertain dealing Holmes within the AFC North, and that would apply with Roethlisberger as well. A trade likely would have to involve a quarterback or put the Steelers in position to draft one they like (Pittsburgh is high on its young backup, Dennis Dixon, however).

Finding the right deal is remote, the Steelers know, but not necessarily impossible.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

brothervad

stlrz d
04-16-2010, 11:41 PM
He's not going anywhere.

Get over it already.

I don't think it's a 100% surety stlrz d:

Steelers have internally discussed trading Roethlisberger

The Pittsburgh Steelers haven't talked with other teams about dealing embattled quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, but they've had significant internal discussions about the matter, a source with knowledge of the situation said Thursday.

According to the source, Steelers ownership remains dismayed and embarrassed by Roethlisberger's actions in a Georgia college town this offseason and finds his string of off-the-field incidents troubling. The team has been closely monitoring the public backlash against Roethlisberger.

Goodell stresses conduct policy
NFL Commissioner
Roger Goodell issued a memo to all clubs last Wednesday, stressing to all parties the importance of the league's personal-conduct policy. More ... "The Rooneys are livid," the source said.

A Georgia district attorney decided not to hand down sexual-assault criminal charges against Roethlisberger on Monday, but the Steelers, as well as the NFL, could impose their own discipline on him.

Roethlisberger met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Tuesday. Goodell said Wednesday that he would make a decision on Roethlisberger's status "in the near future."

The Steelers' front office has talked internally about possible trade scenarios that could be feasible and what makes sense for the team. According to a source, if other teams called about Roethlisberger, the Steelers would intently listen.

The Steelers could envision several trade scenarios, but they're skeptical about other teams taking on Roethlisberger, given his baggage. However, they also realize his contract is tradeable in an uncapped year, with the bonuses already paid and Roethlisberger signed for six more years at a manageable salary for a franchise quarterback ($8.05 million in 2010, $11.6 million per year from 2011 to 2014, and $12.1 million in 2015).

In particular, the Steelers are enamored with likely No. 1 overall draft pick Sam Bradford. They essentially view Bradford as a sure-thing franchise quarterback and have considered what it would take to move up to the No. 1 pick in a trade with the St. Louis Rams, according to a source. However, the Steelers know executing such a move would be highly difficult, and they figure the Rams have limited interest in Roethlisberger.

Steelers officials aren't worried about how Roethlisberger's return will impact the locker room. The Rooneys' concern is born of the history and prestige of their franchise, the recent fan backlash and public perception about Roethlisberger and their belief that no player is bigger than the team.

However, the source noted that this isn't "a Santonio Holmes situation," alluding to the Steelers dumping the talented but troubled receiver for a fifth-round pick over the weekend as he faced a four-game suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.


HQ video delivered by Akamai
"This is not a case of having to get rid of this guy,'" the source said. "There would have to be fair value."

Roethlisberger, drafted 11th overall in 2004, has performed at an elite level for the Steelers. He's among the winningest quarterbacks for his age and already possesses two Super Bowl rings. His size, improvisational skills and ability to escape the rush and deliver the ball to all parts of the field make him among the best in the league.

Should Roethlisberger have another off-the-field misstep, however, his Steelers career likely would be over, according to team and league sources. And, if a legitimate trade scenario materialized, that end could come much sooner.

Teams that aren't committed long-term to a starting quarterback include the Rams, Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns, Oakland Raiders, San Francisco 49ers, Denver Broncos, Carolina Panthers, Seattle Seahawks and Arizona Cardinals.

The Steelers refused to entertain dealing Holmes within the AFC North, and that would apply with Roethlisberger as well. A trade likely would have to involve a quarterback or put the Steelers in position to draft one they like (Pittsburgh is high on its young backup, Dennis Dixon, however).

Finding the right deal is remote, the Steelers know, but not necessarily impossible.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8178b2b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

brothervad

Internally discussing trading Ben could be something as simple as one person saying, "Do you think we'll have to trade him?" and another person responding, "No".

Name your bet...he's not going anywhere.

brothervad
04-16-2010, 11:49 PM
Wow aren't you one of the crankiest dudes to ever carry on a discussion with? :wink:

You said He ain't going anywhere, get over it.

I point to you to an article saying there are internal discussions.

And suddenly it's a bet...

God dude...I am not saying they are going to trade him, but your exclamaiton that it ain't happening is just you providing your opinion.

I at least have an article suggesting it is being broached, which is far different than your editorial comment.

I am not suggesting he is going to be traded, but I bet the Rooney's are pretty pissed off at this guy and I am not surprised they are considering it.

stlrz d
04-16-2010, 11:57 PM
Wow aren't you one of the crankiest dudes to ever carry on a discussion with? :wink:

You said He ain't going anywhere, get over it.

I point to you to an article saying there are internal discussions.

And suddenly it's a bet...

God dude...I am not saying they are going to trade him, but your exclamaiton that it ain't happening is just you providing your opinion.

I at least have an article suggesting it is being broached, which is far different than your editorial comment.

I am not suggesting he is going to be traded, but I bet the Rooney's are pretty pissed off at this guy and I am not surprised they are considering it.

Ok, how's this?

http://kdka.com/local/Art.Rooney.statem ... 35549.html (http://kdka.com/local/Art.Rooney.statement.2.1635549.html)

"As you maybe aware, Ben has rejoined the team in participating in our offseason conditioning program. We allowed Ben to do this after we were convinced that he was sincerely contrite for his past behavior, as well having Ben's assurance that he is firmly committed to working hard everyday to regain the trust and respect of this organization and Steelers fans.

"After imposing an appropriate level of discipline and outlining the steps we feel will be necessary to be successful as a player and a person, we intend to allow Ben the opportunity to prove to us he is the teammate and citizen we all believe he is capable of being. And we hope the entire Steelers community will allow Ben the opportunity to prove to them that he deserves their trust and their respect."

:)

sd steel
04-16-2010, 11:58 PM
Wow aren't you one of the crankiest dudes to ever carry on a discussion with? :wink:

You said He ain't going anywhere, get over it.

I point to you to an article saying there are internal discussions.

And suddenly it's a bet...

God dude...I am not saying they are going to trade him, but your exclamaiton that it ain't happening is just you providing your opinion.

I at least have an article suggesting it is being broached, which is far different than your editorial comment.

I am not suggesting he is going to be traded, but I bet the Rooney's are pretty pissed off at this guy and I am not surprised they are considering it.

Leave D alone, he is getting backed farther and farther in to a corner and he might call you a name. :lol:

brothervad
04-17-2010, 12:01 AM
Wow aren't you one of the crankiest dudes to ever carry on a discussion with? :wink:

You said He ain't going anywhere, get over it.

I point to you to an article saying there are internal discussions.

And suddenly it's a bet...

God dude...I am not saying they are going to trade him, but your exclamaiton that it ain't happening is just you providing your opinion.

I at least have an article suggesting it is being broached, which is far different than your editorial comment.

I am not suggesting he is going to be traded, but I bet the Rooney's are pretty pissed off at this guy and I am not surprised they are considering it.

Ok, how's this?

http://kdka.com/local/Art.Rooney.statem ... 35549.html (http://kdka.com/local/Art.Rooney.statement.2.1635549.html)

"As you maybe aware, Ben has rejoined the team in participating in our offseason conditioning program. We allowed Ben to do this after we were convinced that he was sincerely contrite for his past behavior, as well having Ben's assurance that he is firmly committed to working hard everyday to regain the trust and respect of this organization and Steelers fans.

"After imposing an appropriate level of discipline and outlining the steps we feel will be necessary to be successful as a player and a person, we intend to allow Ben the opportunity to prove to us he is the teammate and citizen we all believe he is capable of being. And we hope the entire Steelers community will allow Ben the opportunity to prove to them that he deserves their trust and their respect."

:)

Less cranky :) but I will state if the Rooney's are smart they don't come out and say the dude sucks we hate his A$$. You tend to want to uptalk your product when trying to deal it not downgrade it.

I am just saying that I think they are at least considering the scenario of a Ben-less Steelers, but wouldn't bet my Savings Account on it ( I never been very good at the gambling thing anyhow).

brothervad

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 12:06 AM
:lol:

Don't mistake "direct" for "cranky". :D

At any rate, as I've posted earlier, any team will consider a trade for any player...as long as a good offer is made.

But I would be absolutely 100% shocked if Ben were in another team's uniform for the 2010 season.

Sugar
04-17-2010, 12:23 AM
:lol:

Don't mistake "direct" for "cranky". :D

At any rate, as I've posted earlier, any team will consider a trade for any player...as long as a good offer is made.

But I would be absolutely 100% shocked if Ben were in another team's uniform for the 2010 season.

Think about some of the crazy trade scenarios we've heard hear.

Let's pretend that nothing had happened at all with Ben and there had been no news at all. Let's then say that we got a report of the type that says:

"The Rams are willing to trade their #1 and #2 this year and their #2 next year for Ben"

IMO, this board would be abuzz with that and deciding whether it was a good enough deal or not.

ANPSTEEL
04-17-2010, 11:40 AM
:lol:

Don't mistake "direct" for "cranky". :D

At any rate, as I've posted earlier, any team will consider a trade for any player...as long as a good offer is made.

But I would be absolutely 100% shocked if Ben were in another team's uniform for the 2010 season.

Interestingly, I think there is about a 60% chance he is in a different uniform next season.

I'd put those odds higher- but the new cr*p that keeps coming out in the media is making it much more difficult to get any team to offer fair compensation.

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 11:45 AM
:lol:

Don't mistake "direct" for "cranky". :D

At any rate, as I've posted earlier, any team will consider a trade for any player...as long as a good offer is made.

But I would be absolutely 100% shocked if Ben were in another team's uniform for the 2010 season.

Interestingly, I think there is about a 60% chance he is in a different uniform next season.

I'd put those odds higher- but the new cr*p that keeps coming out in the media is making it much more difficult to get any team to offer fair compensation.

Care to make a wager? I have a paypal account and would be happy to put money on him being on the Steelers roster in 2010.

ANPSTEEL
04-17-2010, 12:17 PM
[quote="stlrz d":3ekqhv1j]:lol:

Don't mistake "direct" for "cranky". :D

At any rate, as I've posted earlier, any team will consider a trade for any player...as long as a good offer is made.

But I would be absolutely 100% shocked if Ben were in another team's uniform for the 2010 season.

Interestingly, I think there is about a 60% chance he is in a different uniform next season.

I'd put those odds higher- but the new cr*p that keeps coming out in the media is making it much more difficult to get any team to offer fair compensation.

Care to make a wager? I have a paypal account and would be happy to put money on him being on the Steelers roster in 2010.[/quote:3ekqhv1j]

Let me ponder this-

I'm not against it- but the odds are in your favor. It is certainly "easier" for them to keep Ben.

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 12:47 PM
[quote="stlrz d":38358v1r]:lol:

Don't mistake "direct" for "cranky". :D

At any rate, as I've posted earlier, any team will consider a trade for any player...as long as a good offer is made.

But I would be absolutely 100% shocked if Ben were in another team's uniform for the 2010 season.

Interestingly, I think there is about a 60% chance he is in a different uniform next season.

I'd put those odds higher- but the new cr*p that keeps coming out in the media is making it much more difficult to get any team to offer fair compensation.

Care to make a wager? I have a paypal account and would be happy to put money on him being on the Steelers roster in 2010.

Let me ponder this-

I'm not against it- but the odds are in your favor. It is certainly "easier" for them to keep Ben.[/quote:38358v1r]

But you said 60% chance...that's certainly better than 40%. :D :D :D

ANPSTEEL
04-17-2010, 01:21 PM
[quote=ANPSTEEL][quote="stlrz d":z1enr88e]:lol:

Don't mistake "direct" for "cranky". :D

At any rate, as I've posted earlier, any team will consider a trade for any player...as long as a good offer is made.

But I would be absolutely 100% shocked if Ben were in another team's uniform for the 2010 season.

Interestingly, I think there is about a 60% chance he is in a different uniform next season.

I'd put those odds higher- but the new cr*p that keeps coming out in the media is making it much more difficult to get any team to offer fair compensation.

Care to make a wager? I have a paypal account and would be happy to put money on him being on the Steelers roster in 2010.

Let me ponder this-

I'm not against it- but the odds are in your favor. It is certainly "easier" for them to keep Ben.[/quote:z1enr88e]

But you said 60% chance...that's certainly better than 40%. :D :D :D[/quote:z1enr88e]

Yeah, you know thats like

60% of the time I'm always right.

:lol:

anyway- my point is:

I think the team is going to be "forced" to get rid of Ben for a whole slew of reasons.

But- I recognize that, ideally- this would "go away", and they'd keep their franchise QB- and continue to win- and be a Superbowl contender pretty much every season.

Unfortunately for the team, I don't think this is going to go away so easily. In fact, I think it could easily get worse, particularly if the punishment is not perceived as severe enough. I think the media, and fan backlash would be a nightmare.

How many games can you envision seeing opponents' fans wearing the Rapelisberger jerseys??

Or how often do you see Steelers fans creating some anti-ben effigy with their unwanted Ben jerseys???

How about the new ownership partners- do you think they want that kind of public backlash??

Or- and this may be the most critical - think about all the corporate sponsors that pay huge dollars for suites, advertising, and all forms of media.

The more this stays in the news- and the more inflammatory info that comes to light... even if unsubstantiated- the more likely it forces the team's hand.

That is the issue in my mind. -

Not should the team get rid of Ben, but will they be forced to??

Personally, I am in the trade him camp, but that is my opinion- based upon my own personal belief that I'd rather lose with a team/qb that I can respect- than win with one that I think is a piece of shyt.

feltdizz
04-17-2010, 01:21 PM
Why would someone bet on Ben being traded? It's not that serious but it is a discussion worth having... it's not like the off season has been a quiet one.

...and someone called me names for saying Ben is a drama queen. :nono

kaydee
04-17-2010, 01:56 PM
So it's been reported that Ben won't be disciplined until after the NFL draft because Goodell doesn't want all of this interferring with the biggest off-season week of the NFL. I call BS on that! The NFL and the Rooneys didn't have a problem trading and discriplining Holmes just a couple days before the Georgia DA's press conference regarding the Big Ben incident, so what's the big deal about meting out Ben's discipline this past week?

Here's what I think ~

I think the Rooneys, with the approval of Goodell, are waiting for the draft to see if they can trade up and be rid of Ben. If that happens, Goodell will impose Ben's discipline in conjunction with whatever team picks him up. If Ben isn't/can't be traded and remains a Steeler, the Steelers/Rooneys will impose the discipline.

I do not rule out Ben being traded. I think the Rooneys have had it up to their eyeballs with him. I know I have. I'd rather see him traded for a Sam Bradford or Colt McCoy, and have Batch play until a new rookie QB is developed. Sure, we might have a losing season or two. Maybe not. But I'd rather have a team led by a QB who isn't a moron than continually having an immature, cocky idiot embarrass the team and its fans year in and year out. Just sayin'...

DukieBoy
04-17-2010, 01:58 PM
My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.

snarky
04-17-2010, 02:08 PM
My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.

This board being split is entirely within the control of its members. My opinion of others on this board has not and will not change based on their opinion about this situation. There is a ****load of grey area on this one and it's to be expected that people will draw different conclusions. It is possible for us to be of split opinions without being split.

DukieBoy
04-17-2010, 02:18 PM
My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.

This board being split is entirely within the control of its members. My opinion of others on this board has not and will not change based on their opinion about this situation. There is a ****load of grey area on this one and it's to be expected that people will draw different conclusions. It is possible for us to be of split opinions without being split.


Yes, agreed. Thank you.

Lebsteel
04-17-2010, 03:53 PM
My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.

This board being split is entirely within the control of its members. My opinion of others on this board has not and will not change based on their opinion about this situation. There is a ****load of grey area on this one and it's to be expected that people will draw different conclusions. It is possible for us to be of split opinions without being split.


Yes, agreed. Thank you.

Yes agreed as well. Well except for Stlrz D. He believes in little green aliens. They typed this... :lol: :wink: :tt2

NJ-STEELER
04-17-2010, 03:58 PM
wouldn't knwoing how long a suspension is be a key ingredient for a team wanting to trade for him on draft day... right now, its just a guess...do you think a team is gonna pull the trigger not knwoing if he is gone for (what some have predicted) half a season?

ANPSTEEL
04-17-2010, 04:06 PM
a couple responses to some ocments on the previous page.

wouldn't knwoing how long a suspension is be a key ingredient for a team wanting to trade for him on draft day... right now, its just a guess...do you think a team is gonna pull the trigger not knwoing if he is gone for (what some have predicted) half a season?

Here are my thoughts on that-

I think part of the reasoning of waiting until after the draft is

- the League has a standard they have to uphold, in respect to their image, and the equality of treatment amongst players. This likely requires Goodell to suspend Ben for a couple games- maybe 4.

- The Steelers on the other hand have no such "requirement" but do have an internal standard of behavior that they need to show is applied equally. I think it is this internal standard which would require the Steelers' organization to enforce a more strict punishment than what the League may hand down.

Why does this matter???

If Ben is traded to another team during the draft- the League can enforce their punishment- which as I suggested is likely 2-4 games... but the new team has NO such obligation to impart any further punishment- unlike the Steelers organization.

Just my thoughts-

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 05:57 PM
It's not happening. I'm willing to wager with anyone who has balls enough to back their words with cash.

Because I think most of you in the "trade him" camp are hiding behind the safety of the anonymity provided by the internet so you're able to post your holier-than-thou, moralistic opinions.

So who's gonna step up with some cash???

Jooser
04-17-2010, 06:06 PM
You mean Ceeezaaash? http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/jooser73/moneysmiley.gif

ANPSTEEL
04-17-2010, 06:13 PM
It's not happening. I'm willing to wager with anyone who has balls enough to back their words with cash.

Because I think most of you in the "trade him" camp are hiding behind the safety of the anonymity provided by the internet so you're able to post your holier-than-thou, moralistic opinions.

So who's gonna step up with some cash???


get a grip man-

this has zip to do with the internet.

I was out last evening speaking with multiple people, men and women, who are Steelers fans- every single one of them wants Ben off the team.

If there is any delusion being represented here- it is on your behalf.

Now, in respect to the BET-

Are you really that emotionally imbalanced and insecure that you need to feel superior by trying wager people on something that NONE of us have any say in, or control over???

Come on- who gives a crap?

I want Ben gone- for all the reasons I, and others, have laid out. Also, I think it is quite possible- if not probable- that the Steelers want him gone.

In fact, if this were any other player on the team, I'm 100% certain - they would be gone. (Troy may be the only exception- but Troy would never be in this situation.)

You don't.

We disagree.

I hope I am right, not to prove you wrong, but because I believe it is the right thing to do- and I'm hoping that is the choice the team makes.

If I am right- I won't gloat about it, and if I'm wrong- I'll say so.

end of story-

feltdizz
04-17-2010, 06:20 PM
It's not happening. I'm willing to wager with anyone who has balls enough to back their words with cash.

Because I think most of you in the "trade him" camp are hiding behind the safety of the anonymity provided by the internet so you're able to post your holier-than-thou, moralistic opinions.

So who's gonna step up with some cash???


get a grip man-

this has zip to do with the internet.

I was out last evening speaking with multiple people, men and women, who are Steelers fans- every single one of them wants Ben off the team.

If there is any delusion being represented here- it is on your behalf.

Now, in respect to the BET-

Are you really that emotionally imbalanced and insecure that you need to feel superior by trying wager people on something that NONE of us have any say in, or control over???

Come on- who gives a crap?

I want Ben gone- for all the reasons I, and others, have laid out. Also, I think it is quite possible- if not probable- that the Steelers want him gone.

In fact, if this were any other player on the team, I'm 100% certain - they would be gone. (Troy may be the only exception- but Troy would never be in this situation.)

You don't.

We disagree.

I hope I am right, not to prove you wrong, but because I believe it is the right thing to do- and I'm hoping that is the choice the team makes.

If I am right- I won't gloat about it, and if I'm wrong- I'll say so.

end of story-



You don't.

The guy will go ape sh!t on you... be careful. Don't make him angry, You won't like him when he is angry. 8)

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/77/039_44343.jpg

papillon
04-17-2010, 08:00 PM
It's not happening. I'm willing to wager with anyone who has balls enough to back their words with cash.

Because I think most of you in the "trade him" camp are hiding behind the safety of the anonymity provided by the internet so you're able to post your holier-than-thou, moralistic opinions.

So who's gonna step up with some cash???

I don't wager and I certainly don't need the internet to tell you that Ben screwed up and is a social misfit. I'll tell you that here and I'll tell you that to your face. Ben is a fool, but an extremely gifted fool when it comes to football. He'd be a Walmart greeter if he couldn't play football.

Pappy

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 08:04 PM
It's not happening. I'm willing to wager with anyone who has balls enough to back their words with cash.

Because I think most of you in the "trade him" camp are hiding behind the safety of the anonymity provided by the internet so you're able to post your holier-than-thou, moralistic opinions.

So who's gonna step up with some cash???


get a grip man-

this has zip to do with the internet.

I was out last evening speaking with multiple people, men and women, who are Steelers fans- every single one of them wants Ben off the team.

If there is any delusion being represented here- it is on your behalf.

Now, in respect to the BET-

Are you really that emotionally imbalanced and insecure that you need to feel superior by trying wager people on something that NONE of us have any say in, or control over???

Come on- who gives a crap?

I want Ben gone- for all the reasons I, and others, have laid out. Also, I think it is quite possible- if not probable- that the Steelers want him gone.

In fact, if this were any other player on the team, I'm 100% certain - they would be gone. (Troy may be the only exception- but Troy would never be in this situation.)

You don't.

We disagree.

I hope I am right, not to prove you wrong, but because I believe it is the right thing to do- and I'm hoping that is the choice the team makes.

If I am right- I won't gloat about it, and if I'm wrong- I'll say so.

end of story-

Sounds like you were talking to a bunch of idiots. Because anyone who wants the guy off the team for something that hasn't even been substantiated is an idiot. If that includes you then no disrespect...but you're an idiot too.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-17-2010, 08:17 PM
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/77/039_44343.jpg

Nice pic. I remember that show. Heck, I remember Bill Bixby in "My Favorite Martian"!

Hey, about that pic - the guy in the back ... can he play center?

:lol: :lol:

AngryAsian
04-17-2010, 10:06 PM
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/77/039_44343.jpg

Nice pic. I remember that show. Heck, I remember Bill Bixby in "My Favorite Martian"!

Hey, about that pic - the guy in the back ... can he play center?

:lol: :lol:


He wouldn't be able to hear the snap count.

NJ-STEELER
04-17-2010, 10:11 PM
It's not happening. I'm willing to wager with anyone who has balls enough to back their words with cash.

Because I think most of you in the "trade him" camp are hiding behind the safety of the anonymity provided by the internet so you're able to post your holier-than-thou, moralistic opinions.

So who's gonna step up with some cash???


get a grip man-

this has zip to do with the internet.

I was out last evening speaking with multiple people, men and women, who are Steelers fans- every single one of them wants Ben off the team.

If there is any delusion being represented here- it is on your behalf.

Now, in respect to the BET-

Are you really that emotionally imbalanced and insecure that you need to feel superior by trying wager people on something that NONE of us have any say in, or control over???

Come on- who gives a crap?

I want Ben gone- for all the reasons I, and others, have laid out. Also, I think it is quite possible- if not probable- that the Steelers want him gone.

In fact, if this were any other player on the team, I'm 100% certain - they would be gone. (Troy may be the only exception- but Troy would never be in this situation.)

You don't.

We disagree.

I hope I am right, not to prove you wrong, but because I believe it is the right thing to do- and I'm hoping that is the choice the team makes.

If I am right- I won't gloat about it, and if I'm wrong- I'll say so.

end of story-

why isn't harrison gone?

Steel Life
04-17-2010, 10:33 PM
My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.
Well put - hopefully the blinders vs. crusaders wars will end soon...sometime around Wednesday or Thursday I think :wink:

Flasteel
04-17-2010, 10:47 PM
My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.
Well put - hopefully the blinders vs. crusaders wars will end soon...sometime around Wednesday or Thursday I think :wink:

By my count there are only two or three posters who are either blindly defending Ben, or crucifying him. It seems as if most of us are no doubt disappointed but willing to give Roethlisberger a chance to prove himself as our quarterback. The outliers on both sides probably need to take a step back and quit letting their emotions get the best of them.

Dee Dub
04-17-2010, 10:56 PM
My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.
Well put - hopefully the blinders vs. crusaders wars will end soon...sometime around Wednesday or Thursday I think :wink:

Regardless of what happens next week I am a Steeler. Will always be no matter what another Steeler fan thinks. I just personally believe it is in the best interests of the Steelers to start a new chapter with out Ben Roethlisberger. I have supported Ben long before he ever became a Steelers. Most of those from the old Trib can attest to that. I believe and want the image of the Steelers to be bigger than one player. And if a players stains that image to a point that hurts the team, well, then I thinks it's time to move on.

NJ-STEELER
04-17-2010, 11:13 PM
[quote=DukieBoy]My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.
Well put - hopefully the blinders vs. crusaders wars will end soon...sometime around Wednesday or Thursday I think :wink:

Regardless of what happens next week I am a Steeler. Will always be no matter what another Steeler fan thinks. I just personally believe it is in the best interests of the Steelers to start a new chapter with out Ben Roethlisberger. I have supported Ben long before he ever became a Steelers. Most of those from the old Trib can attest to that. I believe and want the image of the Steelers to be bigger than one player. And if a players stains that image to a point that hurts the team, well, then I thinks it's time to move on.[/quote:1dxuii46]


why is james harrison still on the team

Dee Dub
04-17-2010, 11:25 PM
[quote="Steel Life":27bk8kyx][quote=DukieBoy]My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.
Well put - hopefully the blinders vs. crusaders wars will end soon...sometime around Wednesday or Thursday I think :wink:

Regardless of what happens next week I am a Steeler. Will always be no matter what another Steeler fan thinks. I just personally believe it is in the best interests of the Steelers to start a new chapter with out Ben Roethlisberger. I have supported Ben long before he ever became a Steelers. Most of those from the old Trib can attest to that. I believe and want the image of the Steelers to be bigger than one player. And if a players stains that image to a point that hurts the team, well, then I thinks it's time to move on.[/quote:27bk8kyx]


why is james harrison still on the team[/quote:27bk8kyx]

How many times has James Harrison been in trouble or caused an off field embarrassment to the Steelers? We are all going to make mistakes and there is nothing wrong with the Rooney's giving a player a second chance...but 2, 3, 4 incidents??

No that is cause to go in a different direction.

Dee Dub
04-17-2010, 11:32 PM
...and just think....if one more girl comes forward...right or wrong...innocent or guilty....the Pittsburgh Steelers will sink into a huge hole. They wouldnt be able to give Ben away.

Again...I think it is in the best interests of the Steelers to turn the page now.

I've been a Steeler fan for 37 years and I have never ever ever heard it leaked by the Steelers that they were enamored by another QB (a draft pick at that), while they had their own Super Bowl winning QB on their roster. Think about it.

SS Laser
04-18-2010, 01:15 AM
...and just think....if one more girl comes forward...right or wrong...innocent or guilty....the Pittsburgh Steelers will sink into a huge hole. They wouldnt be able to give Ben away.

Again...I think it is in the best interests of the Steelers to turn the page now.

I've been a Steeler fan for 37 years and I have never ever ever heard it leaked by the Steelers that they were enamored by another QB (a draft pick at that), while they had their own Super Bowl winning QB on their roster. Think about it.

Come on Dub you are smarter then that. It is just more media fuel for the fire. I am sure many times the steelers have been enamored by a QB. But would not go up the draft to get him. With Ben on the team it just makes that choice even easier.

NJ-STEELER
04-18-2010, 01:18 AM
[quote="Dee Dub":a4oe9ze4][quote="Steel Life":a4oe9ze4][quote=DukieBoy]My hope is that Ben is kept. Hope based not on whether I believe him vs his accusers. Hope based on him changing his problem behavior patterns, now and for what remains of his football career. I believe he has behavior patterns seriously in need of change. I respect that others may believe differently, and I especially respect the opinions of long time posters who I know to be great Steeler fans and very knowledgeable. I am sorry to see the board split.

Either way, with or without Ben, I am a Steeler fan, always.
Well put - hopefully the blinders vs. crusaders wars will end soon...sometime around Wednesday or Thursday I think :wink:

Regardless of what happens next week I am a Steeler. Will always be no matter what another Steeler fan thinks. I just personally believe it is in the best interests of the Steelers to start a new chapter with out Ben Roethlisberger. I have supported Ben long before he ever became a Steelers. Most of those from the old Trib can attest to that. I believe and want the image of the Steelers to be bigger than one player. And if a players stains that image to a point that hurts the team, well, then I thinks it's time to move on.[/quote:a4oe9ze4]


why is james harrison still on the team[/quote:a4oe9ze4]

How many times has James Harrison been in trouble or caused an off field embarrassment to the Steelers? We are all going to make mistakes and there is nothing wrong with the Rooney's giving a player a second chance...but 2, 3, 4 incidents??

No that is cause to go in a different direction.[/quote:a4oe9ze4]

how times has ben been arrested?

harrison?

what are incidents 3 & 4 that you're referring to

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-18-2010, 11:20 AM
http://synd.imgsrv.uclick.com/comics/ta/2010/ta100418.gif

As much as anything I've read or heard, this cartoon makes me think maybe the Rooney's are going to let him go. Not because the cartoon is particularly good, or gives any new information, or even because he's guilty or not of this or that - but because of its location ... in today's op-ed section of a national non-sports newspaper.

I'd bet a hundred bucks the Rooney's read the NY Times (being Obama supporters, if for no other reason). It blew me away to see this cartoon highlighting the Steelers problems right next to editorials and cartoons about things like the economy, nukes in Iran, etc. It shows me the story has legs that carry it far beyond just the sports pages. I can imagine seeing it would be like a punch in the gut to the Rooneys.

The Steelers are a business, and at some point the Rooney's may have to let Ben go just so that the issue doesn't drag down the business' value. How low would his trade value drop to if/when the next allegation comes out? Fair or not to Ben, that's how the world works sometimes.

I don't feel so good right now ...

Lebsteel
04-18-2010, 12:29 PM
http://synd.imgsrv.uclick.com/comics/ta/2010/ta100418.gif

As much as anything I've read or heard, this cartoon makes me think maybe the Rooney's are going to let him go. Not because the cartoon is particularly good, or gives any new information, or even because he's guilty or not of this or that - but because of its location ... in today's op-ed section of a national non-sports newspaper.

I'd bet a hundred bucks the Rooney's read the NY Times (being Obama supporters, if for no other reason). It blew me away to see this cartoon highlighting the Steelers problems right next to editorials and cartoons about things like the economy, nukes in Iran, etc. It shows me the story has legs that carry it far beyond just the sports pages. I can imagine seeing it would be like a punch in the gut to the Rooneys.

The Steelers are a business, and at some point the Rooney's may have to let Ben go just so that the issue doesn't drag down the business' value. How low would his trade value drop to if/when the next allegation comes out? Fair or not to Ben, that's how the world works sometimes.

I don't feel so good right now ...
Yea, I feel the same way. I feel sick when I think of the Steelers without Ben, but I also understand the reality of the world...either way, whether he goes or stays, it doesn't make me feel good.

Wolfhound45
04-18-2010, 01:02 PM
Don't care if we keep Ben or trade him. Bottom line, I have lost all respect for him. It does not matter if he is guilty or not. You cannot excuse his behavior no matter how much you try. For me, I cannot in good conscience wear my Roethlisberger jersey anymore.

Period.

brothervad
04-18-2010, 01:21 PM
Post Gazette had an article today suggesting how botched this investigation was...

Oh and btw for those who say she said that she wasn't raped...it appears that the disgraced officer who resigned that was in charge that night had a bit of a credibility problem himself:


Documents from high-profile case against Steeler reveal questionable decisions, missteps, contradictions
Sunday, April 18, 2010
By Jonathan D. Silver, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
In the wee hours of March 5, as bars in Milledgeville, Ga. emptied for the night, three women approached a police officer parked downtown and said "something" had happened to their friend inside a nightclub -- something involving a "big time football player."

That understated conversation spawned a high-profile investigation of rape allegations against Ben Roethlisberger, one that was in the public eye for a month yet its inner workings were mostly hidden from public scrutiny until now.

New details gleaned from the case file reveal that the inquiry was, if nothing else, bumpy, contradictory and marked by dead ends -- no slam-dunk evidence, no DNA profile to compare with genetic material from the Steelers quarterback, and no coveted second interview with Mr. Roethlisberger after his initial statement to police in the incident's immediate aftermath.

Documents made available when the case was closed show some officers made questionable decisions in the investigation's early stages, such as not sequestering witnesses or securing the scene of the alleged crime -- a small, staff bathroom in the back of the Capital City nightclub.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation had occasional trouble contacting both the accuser and her lawyer, who did not return numerous calls from the agency.

And the alleged victim's family distrusted the Milledgeville Police Department so much that they warned the bureau's lead agent not to bring them to the woman's house when the agent went to swab her mouth for evidence samples.

An unsecured scene
About eight hours after the 20-year-old student at Georgia College and State University accused Mr. Roethlisberger of raping her in the restroom, a janitor scrubbed the sink, floor and toilet with Clorox and Pine-Sol.

To the chagrin of investigators, no one had told him not to. The only evidence collected from the bathroom did not yield useful results.

"In this type of case, usually your highest and best evidence is found on your victim. However, in an effort to be as thorough as possible, you always process the scene as well," said Tom Davis, special agent in charge of GBI's Milledgeville field office.

Attorney Alexander Lindsay, a former federal and state prosecutor in Western Pennsylvania, said GBI "worked the hell out of this case but it was muffed at the beginning" by Milledgeville police. Mr. Lindsay, who teaches law at the University of Pittsburgh, reviewed the case file, most of which was posted online by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

It is possible that DNA or other evidence of sexual contact could have been obtained from the bathroom.

"The bathroom was unsecured and washed with Pine-Sol. At that point, it was a factor in not only not having evidence, but a defense attorney was going to say the police botched the investigation," Mr. Lindsay said.

It was not until four hours after the bathroom was cleaned that the Milledgeville Police Department called in Agent Davis's investigators.

"Some agencies do wait to call, however we prefer to be called when the police respond and assess what they have," Agent Davis said. "The sooner the better for maximizing the potential for a successful investigation."

Milledgeville police Chief Woodrow W. Blue said a 12-hour wait was about normal before calling in state investigators. He said his department handles between three and six rapes a year, and Chief Blue said it was of no consequence that the bathroom had not been sealed off.

An officer's conduct
The woman's friends said she was shook up upon leaving Capital City.

According to one, Nicole Biancofiore, the alleged victim "did not want to report the incident to a random police officer," the case file shows.

Ms. Biancofiore called a friend, Baldwin County Sheriff's Deputy Shawn Tapley, to ask for advice. He told her to report to an officer downtown.

"Biancofiore also stated that [the woman] did not want to report it because she did not want people to know about the incident and was embarrassed by what had happened."

So the women approached Sgt. Willie Goddard. He, in turn, passed things along to the shift supervisor, Jerry Blash.

It was a fateful step.

Mr. Blash, who had been a police sergeant, resigned last week amid a furor over his conduct during the investigation.

It was Mr. Blash who had escorted Mr. Roethlisberger and his bar-hopping group of friends to Capital City. It was Mr. Blash who posed for a photograph with the quarterback early in the evening. And it was Mr. Blash who investigators say admitted in interviews that while in Capital City he said something like, "This bitch is drunk off her ass accusing Ben of assaulting her."

When he was first approached by the women, Mr. Blash told investigators, the alleged victim was "swaying and smelling of alcohol" and "talked 'all over the place.' " He also said she seemed "nonchalant."

"Blash stated that he asked [the woman] if Roethlisberger had raped her and she stated, 'No, I did not know what was going on,' because she was intoxicated so much. [The woman] told Blash that Roethlisberger did not force her but kept asking her."

Ten days later during a second interview, he told investigators that the woman said "Well, I'm not sure" when he asked if she and Mr. Roethlisberger had sex.

Those interviews are the only places where Mr. Blash's description of that conversation -- and the woman's denial of being raped -- is memorialized, according to Agent Davis.

"He did not put that in his original report, only in his interview. His original report was very brief," Agent Davis said.

All other accounts -- the accuser's two written statements and her friends' interviews with investigators -- consistently state that the woman claimed Mr. Roethlisberger forced sex on her.

Mr. Roethlisberger, through his attorneys, denies any illegal conduct.

At one point, the woman and Mr. Blash argued on the street with voices raised about whether he would take a report, according to her friends. She felt she was being told not to file one; Mr. Blash countered that he was not trying to dissuade her.

"Blash indicated that he did tell the victim that what she was saying to Blash was not making sense and told the victim that Roethlisberger's attorneys or any attorney would 'tear your story up' and 'you got to be more clear with me and fill in these blanks.' "

In his interview, Mr. Blash acknowledged his vexation.

"Blash was frustrated because the victim could barely stand, and that pissed Blash off," wrote GBI Special Agent Ryan Carmichael.

"The victim's friends got on Blash's nerves because he kept asking them were they back there with her, and they said no. The victim's friends were trying to tell what was going on more than the victim was, and the victim could not answer Blash's questions."

'A big problem'
Mr. Blash sent the woman to the city police department. He met with fellow officers, including Jason Lopez.

Officer Lopez recalled that as the bars were emptying, Mr. Blash asked him to get Capital City's manager to call.

About 10 minutes later, Officer Lopez said, Mr. Blash came up to him and said, "We've got a big problem. We've got a big problem. We've got a big problem."

Police headed into the nightclub. When they arrived, people in the Steeler's entourage were on the phone with lawyers, one officer reported. Most refused to give their names to police.

Mr. Roethlisberger was there along with several friends: off-duty Coraopolis police Officer Anthony J. Barravecchio, off-duty Pennsylvania State Trooper Edward J. Joyner, and Nima Zarrabi, marketing director for the California firm of the quarterback's agent, Ryan Tollner.

"Not this ... again," Officer Barravecchio said upon learning of the allegation, according to the GBI report.

"When Blash was talking with them, one of them said that he gets sick of this kind of 'BS,' and Blash said that he knows how it is and these kind of people deal with this type of thing all the time, but they still have to follow procedures."

Mr. Zarrabi told investigators that he saw Mr. Blash approach Trooper Joyner and tell him: "I know, I know, it's [BS]. I don't believe a word this girl was saying. She could barely stand up straight as she's telling me this, but she's making a serious claim we have to look into."

As Mr. Blash spoke with his colleagues and the off-duty Pennsylvania officers, he used profanity in connection with the accuser and discussed her being drunk, according to investigative reports.

They also chatted about things unrelated to the case, including Officer Barravecchio's watch.

Officer Richard Davidson described the conversation as casual and "light-hearted."

The woman's friends alleged that the two Pennsylvania police officers were involved in putting the woman and Mr. Roethlisberger together in a hallway leading to the bathroom and then preventing them from reaching her.

In their interviews, the men denied the accusations.

Trooper Joyner, who sought and obtained permission from his bosses in April 2005 for permission to work for Mr. Roethlisberger as a driver and assistant, has declined to comment on the case.

Pennsylvania State Police officials are examining the case file and reviewing Trooper Joyner's conduct.

"Upon completion of that review, appropriate action that is warranted will be taken," said Lt. Myra A. Taylor, a state police spokeswoman. She declined additional comment.

Officer Barravecchio's lawyer, Michael Santicola, said his client did nothing wrong and was sober throughout the evening.

"Walking into a bar is not a crime, and none of these guys committed any acts that were a crime," Mr. Santicola said. "The only crime that I've seen committed right now is the crime of this girl. She's underage, she's bombed out of her mind and she's in a bar she shouldn't be in."

Mr. Blash spoke briefly with Mr. Roethlisberger, outlined the allegations against him, and said the quarterback stated he told the woman to leave because she was too drunk.

Mr. Roethlisberger also told Mr. Blash she fell and hit her head. A medical examination did not substantiate that, the district attorney said last week.

According to Mr. Zarrabi, the quarterback told Mr. Blash that the girl's accusation was not true. Mr. Zarrabi told him to not say anything further. He called the firm's lawyer and handed the phone to Mr. Roethlisberger.

When Mr. Blash asked the quarterback for his address, Mr. Zarrabi intervened and handed the sergeant his business card.

One officer who was on the scene, Michael Clay, said Mr. Roethlisberger stated "that he would not give the girl the time of day and that he had ignored her. Clay stated that Roethlisberger appeared to feel or imply that the girl would only say what she alleged because he had ignored her friend and her friend had instigated her report."

While Mr. Blash was in Capital City, Officer Lopez interviewed the woman in a squad room at the station. He said she spoke with candor, but her speech was slurred and her eyes were red.

She told him something that officers found perplexing: the woman claimed that she and the 6-foot-5 Mr. Roethlisberger had sex while she was sitting on the toilet.

An interview sought
By the end of March 5, investigators had spoken with the alleged victim, her friends, a bouncer, the janitor, the club manager and several Milledgeville officers.

Rape kit tests were performed on the alleged victim, and swabs of evidence along with her underwear were sent to a lab for analysis.

On March 8, investigators and Mr. Roethlisberger's Atlanta attorney Edward T. M. Garland talked on a speakerphone. They tried to work out a trade.

GBI's Agent Davis asked Mr. Garland if he would make the quarterback and his friends who accompanied him in Milledgeville available for an interview.

Mr. Garland said he would with regard to the friends. As for Mr. Roethlisberger, he was "unsure."

Would the investigators provide details about the allegations against his client?

Agent Davis "advised Garland that if he would produce Roethlisberger for an interview, and that if District Attorney Fred Bright was present and in agreement, that SAC Davis would provide the basic details of the allegations against Roethlisberger."

Later in the day, Agent Davis told Mr. Garland that the DA agreed to the swap.

"Down here, lawyers very rarely let us talk with their clients but I was giving it my best shot," Agent Davis explained.

The next day, the records show, Mr. Bright told a gathering of top prosecutors and investigators that he had already given Mr. Garland the information he was seeking.

The interview with the quarterback was never granted.

"Bright only had one conversation with Garland that I am aware of through the course of the investigation and that was the one you mentioned. He basically gave him what the allegations were and that's all," Agent Davis said.

Mr. Garland gave investigators something else, though. He put them on notice that he knew of Mr. Blash's derogatory words about the accuser and that the sergeant had "stated that he did not believe her story."

Mr. Bright was "very concerned," Agent Davis reported, and asked that Mr. Blash be interviewed.

A leery accuser
Investigators were having other issues. The accuser could not be reached. Special Agent Monica Ling, the lead investigator, tried to reach her "numerous times" over the weekend of the alleged assault without success.

Lee Parks, the woman's lawyer, finally called on the evening of March 7. Agent Ling said she wanted to take swabs from inside the woman's cheeks.

Mr. Parks said his client and her family were leery. They thought Milledgeville police had leaked information about the woman to the media.

Within two hours of making a report, the woman told Agent Ling, the media was calling her cell phone

Mr. Parks added that the woman and her family were also upset that one of the Milledgeville detectives gave his private e-mail address to the family for sending pictures from the night of the incident. It was not clear why that bothered the family.

After obtaining evidence from the woman, the next step was to interview her. Agent Ling reported having trouble reaching Mr. Parks the next week. When they connected, the attorney told the agent that his client was in therapy and could not help.

"Parks stated he had spoken with [the woman's] therapist and they had decided at this point [she] would be reliving the incident again if she was interviewed now."

Agent Ling wrote that Mr. Parks told her it would be important to speak with his client before talking to Mr. Roethlisberger because she would "know the kind of language Roethlisberger used and exactly what happened."

A 'minute' sample
Several hours before Mr. Bright sat down March 9 with investigators, Agent Ling learned from the crime lab that only a "minute" amount of male DNA had been identified from the rape kit tests.

By March 11, Mr. Garland told investigators that his client's entourage would be available for interviews in the next few days. He was willing to make Mr. Roethlisberger available over the weekend to give a DNA sample.

Agent Ling obtained a search warrant the next day for the quarterback's DNA. The warrant was never executed, and authorities eventually rescinded the request for the sample from Mr. Roethlisberger.

Forensic evidence, it turned out, was scant. Although testing showed the presence of male human DNA from the woman, there was no way to match it to Mr. Roethlisberger or anyone else, according to Ted R. Staples, GBI's manager of forensic biology.

"It was an extremely small quantity of that, and there simply was not enough to generate a nuclear DNA profile from that male" Mr. Staples said. "We carried it forward and made an attempt [to obtain a DNA profile.] The only profile generated was that of the female."

Even with today's technology, the sample was so infinitesimal that nothing could be determined.

"Normally what we're looking for is about a nanogram of DNA, which is a billionth of a gram. A raisin weighs about a gram, so if you could cut a raisin into a billion pieces, we need one of those. So this particular result was far less than even a nanogram. There was something there. It just wasn't enough."

Mr. Staples said scientists could not discern the source of the DNA in the sample, whether it was from saliva, semen or something else.

On March 15, GBI Agent Carmichael also interviewed a member of the Milledgeville Police Explorers, a program for youth interested in law enforcement careers. According to the report, the youth repeated an account -- which was not substantiated by investigators -- that a 16-year-old friend's sister had told of driving Mr. Roethlisberger home while he was drunk and saying the quarterback initially wouldn't allow her to leave before he exposed himself and told her "she could do whatever she wants."

That woman also told of attending a party at Mr. Roethlisberger's home about a week later, saying he invited her to his room and stuck his hand up her skirt. She said she told her father, who "chose not to pursue the issue," according to the report. The woman did not wish to speak to investigators.

Mr. Garland declined to comment on that account, saying "We are not going to discuss the rumors or allegations. The district attorney has concluded there was no criminal conduct."

David Cornwell, another of Mr. Roethlisberger's attorneys, called it "hearsay at least twice removed."

"The fact that this was in the GBI file kind of confines its relevance to the prosecution's consideration of whether or not to charge Ben," he said. "The outcome speaks for itself."

A case closed
With no DNA, no video evidence and no eyewitness accounts, the investigation was dealt its final blow on April 2.

That afternoon, the alleged victim, her parents and her lawyers met with prosecutors and investigators at Mr. Parks' law firm in Atlanta.

Based on a previous conversation with one of the woman's lawyers, investigators had planned to interview the woman. But at the meeting, the message to investigators was unequivocal: the accuser did not want to go forward with the case.

Ten days later, Mr. Bright announced on live television that there would be no charges filed against Mr. Roethlisberger. His obstacle, he said, was not being able to prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt. Whatever happened in the bathroom of Capital City, if anything, would remain a secret.

After a month of intense investigation that began with a conversation on a darkened street and ended in the glare of the national spotlight, the case was closed.



Read more: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10108/105 ... z0lTQOCUTD (http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10108/1051441-66.stm#ixzz0lTQOCUTD)

Read more: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10108/105 ... z0lTOBRPOE (http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10108/1051441-66.stm#ixzz0lTOBRPOE)

Steel Life
04-18-2010, 02:02 PM
With no DNA, no video evidence and no eyewitness accounts, the investigation was dealt its final blow on April 2.

Ten days later, Mr. Bright announced on live television that there would be no charges filed against Mr. Roethlisberger. His obstacle, he said, was not being able to prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
Since we're highlighting the article, allow me to highlight the ONLY portion that matters. We get it, some of you want him to be guilty, it's over...you're beating a dead horse, let it go & wait for the punishment or trading that's to come.

snarky
04-18-2010, 02:19 PM
Somewhat disingenuous quoting when you omit that the final blow to the case was the accuser basically indicating that she would no longer cooperate with the investigation.

I'm glad we live in a society with a high burden of proof for criminal convictions. We don't lock people up simply based on the fact that it was more likely they committed a crime than it is that they didn't.

However, the absence of sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was committed does not necessarily dictate the public's opinion (OJ anyone?). All of us are free to look at the information available and form our own opinions about Ben. That bit may be the only part that matters to you..that's fine others might argue that the only bit that matters is that she says she said no. Or that the only bit that matters is that Ben appears to have told two different stories that night.

The criminal case is closed but for me (and maybe others) I find it hard to look at what is there on the record and find it more likely than not that Ben is guilty of rape. And if you think I *want* that to be the conclusion...well I don't know what to say.

NJ-STEELER
04-18-2010, 02:25 PM
she didn't even answer "numerous calls" from the police the very next day.

they wanted to get more of a sample from her and she was already leery about continuing it.


that sort of throws a wrench in the "she was paid off" arguement some are touting

Sugar
04-18-2010, 02:25 PM
Somewhat disingenuous quoting when you omit that the final blow to the case was the accuser basically indicating that she would no longer cooperate with the investigation.

I'm glad we live in a society with a high burden of proof for criminal convictions. We don't lock people up simply based on the fact that it was more likely they committed a crime than it is that they didn't.

However, the absence of sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was committed does not necessarily dictate the public's opinion (OJ anyone?). All of us are free to look at the information available and form our own opinions about Ben. That bit may be the only part that matters to you..that's fine others might argue that the only bit that matters is that she says she said no. Or that the only bit that matters is that Ben appears to have told two different stories that night.

The criminal case is closed but for me (and maybe others) I find it hard to look at what is there on the record and find it more likely than not that Ben is guilty of rape. And if you think I *want* that to be the conclusion...well I don't know what to say.

A couple thoughts:

First, the reason her testimony was needed was because it was the ONLY evidence. There was nothing else, so she was key. You don't need to have the testimony of the alleged victim in a criminal case unless there is nothing else.

Secondly, this wasn't a trial where they had to meet a burden based on the issue of law for a jury to convict. In this case there wasn't even enough evidence of any kind to even charge Ben. Getting a conviction can be a high burden, but simply getting a charge is not.

There is absolutely nothing in the record to suggest in any way that Ben was guilty of rape or even sexual assault (lesser charge). In fact, he appears to have said that he didn't give her the time of day- so who do you believe? Why?

brothervad
04-18-2010, 02:35 PM
With no DNA, no video evidence and no eyewitness accounts, the investigation was dealt its final blow on April 2.

Ten days later, Mr. Bright announced on live television that there would be no charges filed against Mr. Roethlisberger. His obstacle, he said, was not being able to prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
Since we're highlighting the article, allow me to highlight the ONLY portion that matters. We get it, some of you want him to be guilty, it's over...you're beating a dead horse, let it go & wait for the punishment or trading that's to come.

Yeah that's all that matters....go root for him because he can throw TD's...

because football is the only thing that matters...

hell some of you would defend if you were there and heard her say "No...Stop" you would say she meant "No, don't stop" because you believe in what you want to believe no matter what.

It's always something else:

The media is out to get Ben
The girl is a gold digger
The sorority sisters needed to get their story straight
The Sgt on hand who had no bias whatsoever said she said no, regardless of additional info
No DNA...but who cares that the alleged crime scene was compromised...

it's always someone else that is wrong or evil...never Ben the almighty illiustrious TD thrower...2 Super Bowls is all that matters.

Yeah it's been beaten to death you and I can both agree, but you want to defend this guy for the wrong reasons...I have already said in previous posts he is not guilty, but that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong. Nixon was never impeached...so therefore he was not guilty of anything either...Never proven, but most Americans will all agree he was wrong.

Oh I am sorry Nixon never played for the Steelers...

my bad.

brothervad

birtikidis
04-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Snarky, I don't recall hearing any story from ben. I've heard a few from the accusers camp, but only that Ben and her flirted, made out and he felt she was too drunk to do anything else. that's all I've heard... of course, I don't go to the around the NFL section so i may be missing something.

feltdizz
04-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Sug... I don't belive either of them. But the fall out with the fired Sgt. in GA leads me to believe this whole thing was botched/messy from the time the bathroom door was opened til the next morning.

You have drunk sorority chicks and Ben with 2 off duty cops and a Sgt who called the chick a bitch and said she can't win so why bother.

That alone tells me something happened and with Ben's civil case still open it shows how stupid the guy is. Now plenty of girls switch the story to save face from embarrassment but it shouldn't have come to that to begin with.

Asking us to decide if Ben is innocent AGAIN is asking too damn much for some fans. We should be talking about draft picks and who will help us win games.

ANPSTEEL
04-18-2010, 03:08 PM
...
There is absolutely nothing in the record to suggest in any way that Ben was guilty of rape or even sexual assault (lesser charge). In fact, he appears to have said that he didn't give her the time of day- so who do you believe? Why?


How often do you find your head in the sand???

come on no evidence of sexual assault or rape??? (which by the way- as explained by the Georgia DA- sexual assault can and does include rape - so no, it is not a lesser charge.)

On the accusers "genital area" superficial lacerations, bruising, and bleeding were all in evidence - they are not indicators of some sort of "forced" sexual activity??

Additionally, in his initial comments to the press after the incident- Ben even agreed that they had ... I'm paraphrasing here- some type of sexual activity that was not consummated. He did not indicate what type of activity or what he meant by consummated- but it would seem clear that whatever act(s) took place, he did not ejaculate.

Steel Life
04-18-2010, 03:09 PM
With no DNA, no video evidence and no eyewitness accounts, the investigation was dealt its final blow on April 2.

Ten days later, Mr. Bright announced on live television that there would be no charges filed against Mr. Roethlisberger. His obstacle, he said, was not being able to prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
Since we're highlighting the article, allow me to highlight the ONLY portion that matters. We get it, some of you want him to be guilty, it's over...you're beating a dead horse, let it go & wait for the punishment or trading that's to come.

Yeah that's all that matters....go root for him because he can throw TD's...

because football is the only thing that matters...hell some of you would defend if you were there and heard her say No...you would say she meant "No, don't stop" because you believe in what you want to believe no matter what.

It's always something else:

The media is out to get Ben
The girl is a gold digger
The sorority sisters needed to get their story straight
The Sgt on hand who had no bias whatsoever said she said no, regardless of additional info
No DNA...but who cares that the alleged crime scene was compromised...

it's always someone else that is wrong or evil...never Ben the almighty illiustrious TD thrower...2 Super Bowls is all that matters.

Yeah it's been beaten to death you and I can both agree, but you want to defend this guy for the wrong reasons...I have already said in previous posts he is not guilty, but that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong. Nixon was never impeached...so therefore he was not guilty of anything either...Never proven, but most Americans will all agree he was wrong.

Oh I am sorry Nixon never played for the Steelers...

my bad.

brothervad
First, you cannot put us "defenders" in the position of enablers just because it suits your perspective. I agree he f*cked up big-time in putting himself in a position like this again, but he wasn't charged & despite all our posturing - we don't know what happened & we don't know him. But what we do know is that the LAW deemed that there wasn't enough evidence to even charge him, NOT put him on trial & found him not guilty on some technicality - there were no charges because there was no evidence of a crime! Yet some of you presume to know more than the police & DA involved & make comments about his character when you don't even know him. You act as though the legal process has no bearing & that you have some moral superiority over him & some of us because you're somehow a better fan than we are - you're not. We are not morally bereft, or "win at all cost" types - we just think that the law has spoken & Ben has the right to resume his position with the team without prejudice, but not without reprimand. I think that a suspension is deserved...just not to the degree some are predicting. In not being charged, I don't think you can give him the same suspension as Santonio (4 games) & others without just cause.

snarky
04-18-2010, 03:13 PM
Snarky, I don't recall hearing any story from ben. I've heard a few from the accusers camp, but only that Ben and her flirted, made out and he felt she was too drunk to do anything else. that's all I've heard... of course, I don't go to the around the NFL section so i may be missing something.

Yes, he apparently told the cop that he didn't give her the time of day. But he later told his friend (back at his house or on the way home) that he "messed around" with her (this bit is in the police report).

snarky
04-18-2010, 03:23 PM
we just think that the law has spoken & Ben has the right to resume his position with the team without prejudice, but not without reprimand.

He does indeed have the right to resume his career but others have the right to look at the information available and draw their own conclusions and, if they like, call for him to be traded, cut, suspended or whatever. His right to continue his life does not supercede anybody else's right to speak their opinions of him.

For the record, I hope the Steelers keep him and give him a chance. If it was clear cut that he did something wrong (even without criminal charges) I would want them to get rid. But I don't see how anybody comes down on this with a firm opinion one way or the other. There is evidence of wrongdoing but it is not overwhelming.

brothervad
04-18-2010, 05:01 PM
[quote]With no DNA, no video evidence and no eyewitness accounts, the investigation was dealt its final blow on April 2.

Ten days later, Mr. Bright announced on live television that there would be no charges filed against Mr. Roethlisberger. His obstacle, he said, was not being able to prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
Since we're highlighting the article, allow me to highlight the ONLY portion that matters. We get it, some of you want him to be guilty, it's over...you're beating a dead horse, let it go & wait for the punishment or trading that's to come.

Yeah that's all that matters....go root for him because he can throw TD's...

because football is the only thing that matters...hell some of you would defend if you were there and heard her say No...you would say she meant "No, don't stop" because you believe in what you want to believe no matter what.

It's always something else:

The media is out to get Ben
The girl is a gold digger
The sorority sisters needed to get their story straight
The Sgt on hand who had no bias whatsoever said she said no, regardless of additional info
No DNA...but who cares that the alleged crime scene was compromised...

it's always someone else that is wrong or evil...never Ben the almighty illiustrious TD thrower...2 Super Bowls is all that matters.

Yeah it's been beaten to death you and I can both agree, but you want to defend this guy for the wrong reasons...I have already said in previous posts he is not guilty, but that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong. Nixon was never impeached...so therefore he was not guilty of anything either...Never proven, but most Americans will all agree he was wrong.

Oh I am sorry Nixon never played for the Steelers...

my bad.

brothervad
First, you cannot put us "defenders" in the position of enablers just because it suits your perspective. I agree he f*cked up big-time in putting himself in a position like this again, but he wasn't charged & despite all our posturing - we don't know what happened & we don't know him. But what we do know is that the LAW deemed that there wasn't enough evidence to even charge him, NOT put him on trial & found him not guilty on some technicality - there were no charges because there was no evidence of a crime! Yet some of you presume to know more than the police & DA involved & make comments about his character when you don't even know him. You act as though the legal process has no bearing & that you have some moral superiority over him & some of us because you're somehow a better fan than we are - you're not. We are not morally bereft, or "win at all cost" types - we just think that the law has spoken & Ben has the right to resume his position with the team without prejudice, but not without reprimand. I think that a suspension is deserved...just not to the degree some are predicting. In not being charged, I don't think you can give him the same suspension as Santonio (4 games) & others without just cause.[/quote:21ma6pzx]

you know what Steel Life? You are absolutely right...I should not classify you "defenders" as enablers.

Absolutely spot on. But that is exactly what you and many others are doing to those of us who are on the other side of the debate.

Let me take your original quote, "...We get it, some of you want him to be guilty,..."

Let's be clear...the defender side looks at all who ? the morality behind Ben f'ing up and say they are way out of line. They are haters.

I own (soon to be owned) a Ben Rothlesberger Jersey. I posted at how I marveled at the kid's talent.

No Steel Life...I want this nightmare to go away...but I can't overlook the information coming out that smells and feels like Rape to me. Not from a legal standpoint, but a moral standpoint.

I want this to go away, much like I want this recession to go away, but I am an adult and realize there are no easy fixes, and this will not go away for a long, long time.

I just suggest that both sides of the debate have their reasons for wanting what they want. I too believe in redemption, but to me the contrition must also be a part of the process...and I just don't see it.

Let's just agree to disagree, I have as much right to point out the points I highlighted just as you to counter them with the DNA, but you are guilty of the same thing you accuse me and others when you say "you want him to be guilty" when you state your position.

Regards,
brothervad

Steel Life
04-18-2010, 08:06 PM
[quote]With no DNA, no video evidence and no eyewitness accounts, the investigation was dealt its final blow on April 2.

Ten days later, Mr. Bright announced on live television that there would be no charges filed against Mr. Roethlisberger. His obstacle, he said, was not being able to prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
Since we're highlighting the article, allow me to highlight the ONLY portion that matters. We get it, some of you want him to be guilty, it's over...you're beating a dead horse, let it go & wait for the punishment or trading that's to come.

Yeah that's all that matters....go root for him because he can throw TD's...

because football is the only thing that matters...hell some of you would defend if you were there and heard her say No...you would say she meant "No, don't stop" because you believe in what you want to believe no matter what.

It's always something else:

The media is out to get Ben
The girl is a gold digger
The sorority sisters needed to get their story straight
The Sgt on hand who had no bias whatsoever said she said no, regardless of additional info
No DNA...but who cares that the alleged crime scene was compromised...

it's always someone else that is wrong or evil...never Ben the almighty illiustrious TD thrower...2 Super Bowls is all that matters.

Yeah it's been beaten to death you and I can both agree, but you want to defend this guy for the wrong reasons...I have already said in previous posts he is not guilty, but that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong. Nixon was never impeached...so therefore he was not guilty of anything either...Never proven, but most Americans will all agree he was wrong.

Oh I am sorry Nixon never played for the Steelers...

my bad.

brothervad
First, you cannot put us "defenders" in the position of enablers just because it suits your perspective. I agree he f*cked up big-time in putting himself in a position like this again, but he wasn't charged & despite all our posturing - we don't know what happened & we don't know him. But what we do know is that the LAW deemed that there wasn't enough evidence to even charge him, NOT put him on trial & found him not guilty on some technicality - there were no charges because there was no evidence of a crime! Yet some of you presume to know more than the police & DA involved & make comments about his character when you don't even know him. You act as though the legal process has no bearing & that you have some moral superiority over him & some of us because you're somehow a better fan than we are - you're not. We are not morally bereft, or "win at all cost" types - we just think that the law has spoken & Ben has the right to resume his position with the team without prejudice, but not without reprimand. I think that a suspension is deserved...just not to the degree some are predicting. In not being charged, I don't think you can give him the same suspension as Santonio (4 games) & others without just cause.

you know what Steel Life? You are absolutely right...I should not classify you "defenders" as enablers.

Absolutely spot on. But that is exactly what you and many others are doing to those of us who are on the other side of the debate.

Let me take your original quote, "...We get it, some of you want him to be guilty,..."

Let's be clear...the defender side looks at all who ? the morality behind Ben f'ing up and say they are way out of line. They are haters.

I own (soon to be owned) a Ben Rothlesberger Jersey. I posted at how I marveled at the kid's talent.

No Steel Life...I want this nightmare to go away...but I can't overlook the information coming out that smells and feels like Rape to me. Not from a legal standpoint, but a moral standpoint.

I want this to go away, much like I want this recession to go away, but I am an adult and realize there are no easy fixes, and this will not go away for a long, long time.

I just suggest that both sides of the debate have their reasons for wanting what they want. I too believe in redemption, but to me the contrition must also be a part of the process...and I just don't see it.

Let's just agree to disagree, I have as much right to point out the points I highlighted just as you to counter them with the DNA, but you are guilty of the same thing you accuse me and others when you say "you want him to be guilty" when you state your position.

Regards,
brothervad[/quote:r487yfl3]
No problem Vad...I have suggested the very same & as I said in a previous post, I hope that this dies down soon & move forward with the draft & training camp.

NJ-STEELER
04-18-2010, 08:26 PM
sounds more and more to me like a jilted girl type thing to me.

she thought she was the girl ben wanted. ben turned his atention to girl in gray sweather dress.

how does she get the attention back, when the other leaves ...she tells ben lets go mess around in the bathroom..... things get hot, she's loaded and falls, ben sees how messed up she is and says this cant continue.

ben goes back to VIP. girl is jilted, finds out girl in gray sweather dress is sitting next to ben again and goes makes up this assault story.

think i even read form one of the girl witness statements that they didn't get along with girl in sweather dress (not positive).


gotta say the DAs words of no "probable cause" fit right in here

Lebsteel
04-18-2010, 09:14 PM
sounds more and more to me like a jilted girl type thing to me.

she thought she was the girl ben wanted. ben turned his atention to girl in gray sweather dress.

how does she get the attention back, when the other leaves ...she tells ben lets go mess around in the bathroom..... things get hot, she's loaded and falls, ben sees how messed up she is and says this cant continue.

ben goes back to VIP. girl is jilted, finds out girl in gray sweather dress is sitting next to ben again and goes makes up this assault story.

think i even read form one of the girl witness statements that they didn't get along with girl in sweather dress (not positive).


gotta say the DAs words of no "probable cause" fit right in here
NJ, I would seriously love for that to be the case. But, if it was, then what would Ben have to lose by telling the truth? I am sorry, but Ben not telling the truth, not saying anything specific and being told not to speak by his lawyers doesn't pass the "smell" test with me. If you really consider that also, I think you will agree that something doesn't seem right and that, to me, is very unfortunate, but real.

eniparadoxgma
04-18-2010, 11:00 PM
With no DNA, no video evidence and no eyewitness accounts, the investigation was dealt its final blow on April 2.

Ten days later, Mr. Bright announced on live television that there would be no charges filed against Mr. Roethlisberger. His obstacle, he said, was not being able to prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
Since we're highlighting the article, allow me to highlight the ONLY portion that matters. We get it, some of you want him to be guilty, it's over...you're beating a dead horse, let it go & wait for the punishment or trading that's to come.

Yeah that's all that matters....go root for him because he can throw TD's...

because football is the only thing that matters...

hell some of you would defend if you were there and heard her say "No...Stop" you would say she meant "No, don't stop" because you believe in what you want to believe no matter what.

It's always something else:

The media is out to get Ben
The girl is a gold digger
The sorority sisters needed to get their story straight
The Sgt on hand who had no bias whatsoever said she said no, regardless of additional info
No DNA...but who cares that the alleged crime scene was compromised...

it's always someone else that is wrong or evil...never Ben the almighty illiustrious TD thrower...2 Super Bowls is all that matters.

Yeah it's been beaten to death you and I can both agree, but you want to defend this guy for the wrong reasons...I have already said in previous posts he is not guilty, but that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong. Nixon was never impeached...so therefore he was not guilty of anything either...Never proven, but most Americans will all agree he was wrong.

Oh I am sorry Nixon never played for the Steelers...

my bad.

brothervad


Waddup brothervad. I've always enjoyed your posts/stance/views/whatever. Just sayin'.

Anyhow, I agree with everything you wrote. I have declined to comment much on this whole thing until I felt like there was enough crap out there to make some sort of decision about it. I don't vouch for someone because I like their play. I also don't assume the worst. I consider myself somewhat rational.

After reading what I've read about all of this crap, my opinion is that there is just no way to believe Ben guilty of rape. I'm not saying just that it can't be proven. I'm saying that there is a bunch of talk from both sides, and after looking at everything I've seen I just am not buying it.

Sure, he probably shouldn't be buying shots for college chicks in a bar...because this crap may happen. But, what I'm interested in is whether or not he's a rapist. If he is, then I hope he gets buried under the nearest jail. If he isn't, then time to move on.

I faced this crap awhile back as both a Lakers and Kobe Bryant fan. I made my decision on that, which was that he didn't rape that girl. As far as I can tell, I'm making the same one now.

Not sure if any of the crap I just typed even relates to your post, but I felt like throwing my opinion out there for the hell of it lol.

NJ-STEELER
04-19-2010, 01:21 AM
sounds more and more to me like a jilted girl type thing to me.

she thought she was the girl ben wanted. ben turned his atention to girl in gray sweather dress.

how does she get the attention back, when the other leaves ...she tells ben lets go mess around in the bathroom..... things get hot, she's loaded and falls, ben sees how messed up she is and says this cant continue.

ben goes back to VIP. girl is jilted, finds out girl in gray sweather dress is sitting next to ben again and goes makes up this assault story.

think i even read form one of the girl witness statements that they didn't get along with girl in sweather dress (not positive).


gotta say the DAs words of no "probable cause" fit right in here
NJ, I would seriously love for that to be the case. But, if it was, then what would Ben have to lose by telling the truth? I am sorry, but Ben not telling the truth, not saying anything specific and being told not to speak by his lawyers doesn't pass the "smell" test with me. If you really consider that also, I think you will agree that something doesn't seem right and that, to me, is very unfortunate, but real.\

because, in the end. he is still guilty of trying to have sex in the bathroom of a public club...thats not really going to endear him with many.Esp the league office

and he's guilty of putting himself in this position by trying to do such a thing a year after another (as nutty as it sounded) allegation of sexual assault.

i highly doubt any superstar mega rich football players have to force themselves on anyone (yes, i'm sure it can happen.... chumara). the reports said there were like 15 girls all gravitating to ben at the first bar they were at and they were all trying to talk to him thru willie (until willie had enuff of it).

i have to imagine something like that happenes everytime he goes out

Lebsteel
04-19-2010, 10:11 AM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":2j04kquh]sounds more and more to me like a jilted girl type thing to me.

she thought she was the girl ben wanted. ben turned his atention to girl in gray sweather dress.

how does she get the attention back, when the other leaves ...she tells ben lets go mess around in the bathroom..... things get hot, she's loaded and falls, ben sees how messed up she is and says this cant continue.

ben goes back to VIP. girl is jilted, finds out girl in gray sweather dress is sitting next to ben again and goes makes up this assault story.

think i even read form one of the girl witness statements that they didn't get along with girl in sweather dress (not positive).


gotta say the DAs words of no "probable cause" fit right in here
NJ, I would seriously love for that to be the case. But, if it was, then what would Ben have to lose by telling the truth? I am sorry, but Ben not telling the truth, not saying anything specific and being told not to speak by his lawyers doesn't pass the "smell" test with me. If you really consider that also, I think you will agree that something doesn't seem right and that, to me, is very unfortunate, but real.\

because, in the end. he is still guilty of trying to have sex in the bathroom of a public club...thats not really going to endear him with many.Esp the league office

and he's guilty of putting himself in this position by trying to do such a thing a year after another (as nutty as it sounded) allegation of sexual assault.

i highly doubt any superstar mega rich football players have to force themselves on anyone (yes, i'm sure it can happen.... chumara). the reports said there were like 15 girls all gravitating to ben at the first bar they were at and they were all trying to talk to him thru willie (until willie had enuff of it).

i have to imagine something like that happenes everytime he goes out[/quote:2j04kquh]
Exactly. Ben behaved in a very inappropriate manner and will be punished for it. I hate it, but it is a very unfortunate reality. My hope is that he is very contrite, learns from his mistake and never behaves that way again.

cruzer8
04-19-2010, 01:01 PM
we just think that the law has spoken & Ben has the right to resume his position with the team without prejudice, but not without reprimand.

He does indeed have the right to resume his career but others have the right to look at the information available and draw their own conclusions and, if they like, call for him to be traded, cut, suspended or whatever. His right to continue his life does not supercede anybody else's right to speak their opinions of him.

For the record, I hope the Steelers keep him and give him a chance. If it was clear cut that he did something wrong (even without criminal charges) I would want them to get rid. But I don't see how anybody comes down on this with a firm opinion one way or the other. There is evidence of wrongdoing but it is not overwhelming.

Pretty foolish to draw those conclusions from, at best, unreliable and inconsistent information though. Don't you think?

cruzer8
04-19-2010, 01:15 PM
With no DNA, no video evidence and no eyewitness accounts, the investigation was dealt its final blow on April 2.

Ten days later, Mr. Bright announced on live television that there would be no charges filed against Mr. Roethlisberger. His obstacle, he said, was not being able to prove that a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
Since we're highlighting the article, allow me to highlight the ONLY portion that matters. We get it, some of you want him to be guilty, it's over...you're beating a dead horse, let it go & wait for the punishment or trading that's to come.

I also would have highlighted this part:


Forensic evidence, it turned out, was scant. Although testing showed the presence of male human DNA from the woman, there was no way to match it to Mr. Roethlisberger or anyone else, according to Ted R. Staples, GBI's manager of forensic biology.

"It was an extremely small quantity of that, and there simply was not enough to generate a nuclear DNA profile from that male" Mr. Staples said. "We carried it forward and made an attempt [to obtain a DNA profile.] The only profile generated was that of the female."

Even with today's technology, the sample was so infinitesimal that nothing could be determined.

"Normally what we're looking for is about a nanogram of DNA, which is a billionth of a gram. A raisin weighs about a gram, so if you could cut a raisin into a billion pieces, we need one of those. So this particular result was far less than even a nanogram. There was something there. It just wasn't enough."

Mr. Staples said scientists could not discern the source of the DNA in the sample, whether it was from saliva, semen or something else.

snarky
04-19-2010, 02:57 PM
we just think that the law has spoken & Ben has the right to resume his position with the team without prejudice, but not without reprimand.

He does indeed have the right to resume his career but others have the right to look at the information available and draw their own conclusions and, if they like, call for him to be traded, cut, suspended or whatever. His right to continue his life does not supercede anybody else's right to speak their opinions of him.

For the record, I hope the Steelers keep him and give him a chance. If it was clear cut that he did something wrong (even without criminal charges) I would want them to get rid. But I don't see how anybody comes down on this with a firm opinion one way or the other. There is evidence of wrongdoing but it is not overwhelming.

Pretty foolish to draw those conclusions from, at best, unreliable and inconsistent information though. Don't you think?

What conclusions, specifically?

cruzer8
04-19-2010, 03:21 PM
we just think that the law has spoken & Ben has the right to resume his position with the team without prejudice, but not without reprimand.

He does indeed have the right to resume his career but others have the right to look at the information available and draw their own conclusions and, if they like, call for him to be traded, cut, suspended or whatever. His right to continue his life does not supercede anybody else's right to speak their opinions of him.

For the record, I hope the Steelers keep him and give him a chance. If it was clear cut that he did something wrong (even without criminal charges) I would want them to get rid. But I don't see how anybody comes down on this with a firm opinion one way or the other. There is evidence of wrongdoing but it is not overwhelming.

Pretty foolish to draw those conclusions from, at best, unreliable and inconsistent information though. Don't you think?

What conclusions, specifically?

I wasn't referring to any conclusions that you may have drawn. I was referring to your statement as it relates to many Steelers fans who have drawn the conclusion that even law enforcement and the DA in Georgia were not able to prove.

snarky
04-19-2010, 03:46 PM
I wasn't referring to any conclusions that you may have drawn. I was referring to your statement as it relates to many Steelers fans who have drawn the conclusion that even law enforcement and the DA in Georgia were not able to prove.

Well, I think part of that is that people are taking Ben's behavior on the whole and letting it inform their opinions on what happened in this particular incident. It's been discussed before but there is a difference between a criminal conviction and what goes on in the court of public opinion. And with the numerous stories about Ben I don't find it all that surprising that there are people who are saying that all things considered they would prefer the Steelers to get rid.

But like I said before, I don't really understand how anybody forms a solid and immutable opinion one wary or the other on this one.