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drprwnap
04-15-2010, 07:52 AM
GET AN EFFIN GRIP! I have became a Steeler fan when we drafted Ham and Harris in the early 70's. I've watched this franchise go from a laughing sock to elite. One of the main parts was the QB position. Terry developed into one of THE best big game QB in NFL history. After he retired, I SUFFERED thru the Bubby Bristers, Mark Malones, Todd Blackledges, and Kordell Stewards. I've watched teams in the 80's that were good enough to go deep into the playoffs but didn't because of one position - QB! Then along comes Ben and leads to not one but TWO Super Bowls in his first 5 years.
Is he perfect? Far from it!
Has he made some VERY bad decisions-YES.
Has he been convicted of a crime- NO, NO, NO.
Should he be punished for the good of the team (and the NFL)-Yes. I say counseling and a 2 game suspension. In fact, I think the league will send him to counseling and the Steelers will suspend him.
Should he be traded--NO, NO, NO,NO.
Let's all calm down and see how Ben handles himself during the rest of this mess before you all start yelling TRADE!

DukieBoy
04-15-2010, 07:59 AM
GET AN EFFIN GRIP! I have became a Steeler fan when we drafted Ham and Harris in the early 70's. I've watched this franchise go from a laughing sock to elite. One of the main parts was the QB position. Terry developed into one of THE best big game QB in NFL history. After he retired, I SUFFERED thru the Bubby Bristers, Mark Malones, Todd Blackledges, and Kordell Stewards. I've watched teams in the 80's that were good enough to go deep into the playoffs but didn't because of one position - QB! Then along comes Ben and leads to not one but TWO Super Bowls in his first 5 years.
Is he perfect? Far from it!
Has he made some VERY bad decisions-YES.
Has he been convicted of a crime- NO, NO, NO.
Should he be punished for the good of the team (and the NFL)-Yes. I say counseling and a 2 game suspension. In fact, I think the league will send him to counseling and the Steelers will suspend him.
Should he be traded--NO, NO, NO,NO.
Let's all calm down and see how Ben handles himself during the rest of this mess before you all start yelling TRADE!


Agree here, from a Steeler fan since 1960. Trade - NO WAY! Discipline - Absolutely YES. The way I perceive it, as Ben has shown a lack of internal motivation or control to manage within expectations, external motivation and control must be applied, or his off-field behavior is less likely to change. Right now, to me, he's a jerk. I'd like to admire him again, but that will take change from him and time to prove the change.

steelblood
04-15-2010, 08:08 AM
people can call for whatever they want. for some, having a jerk for a QB is no big deal, for some he really hasn't done anything wrong, and for some, he appears to be a sexual predator and they don't want him to be the face of their franchise.

me? i just don't know. if he goes, there is no way we win the super bowl any time soon.

stlrz d
04-15-2010, 08:12 AM
GET AN EFFIN GRIP! I have became a Steeler fan when we drafted Ham and Harris in the early 70's. I've watched this franchise go from a laughing sock to elite. One of the main parts was the QB position. Terry developed into one of THE best big game QB in NFL history. After he retired, I SUFFERED thru the Bubby Bristers, Mark Malones, Todd Blackledges, and Kordell Stewards. I've watched teams in the 80's that were good enough to go deep into the playoffs but didn't because of one position - QB! Then along comes Ben and leads to not one but TWO Super Bowls in his first 5 years.
Is he perfect? Far from it!
Has he made some VERY bad decisions-YES.
Has he been convicted of a crime- NO, NO, NO.
Should he be punished for the good of the team (and the NFL)-Yes. I say counseling and a 2 game suspension. In fact, I think the league will send him to counseling and the Steelers will suspend him.
Should he be traded--NO, NO, NO,NO.
Let's all calm down and see how Ben handles himself during the rest of this mess before you all start yelling TRADE!

Stop ramming it in people's faces.

:roll:

:lol:

Jooser
04-15-2010, 08:24 AM
I've seen nothing from the ownership or FO that leads me to believe they are ready to trade Ben away. I don't think that it'll happen. It would shock me to no ends if it did. I'm not condoning his antics, but I'm not ready to ship him off to another team either. This year will be a very telling one in terms of his opportunity to get the message and grow up.

Oviedo
04-15-2010, 08:37 AM
GET AN EFFIN GRIP! I have became a Steeler fan when we drafted Ham and Harris in the early 70's. I've watched this franchise go from a laughing sock to elite. One of the main parts was the QB position. Terry developed into one of THE best big game QB in NFL history. After he retired, I SUFFERED thru the Bubby Bristers, Mark Malones, Todd Blackledges, and Kordell Stewards. I've watched teams in the 80's that were good enough to go deep into the playoffs but didn't because of one position - QB! Then along comes Ben and leads to not one but TWO Super Bowls in his first 5 years.
Is he perfect? Far from it!
Has he made some VERY bad decisions-YES.
Has he been convicted of a crime- NO, NO, NO.
Should he be punished for the good of the team (and the NFL)-Yes. I say counseling and a 2 game suspension. In fact, I think the league will send him to counseling and the Steelers will suspend him.
Should he be traded--NO, NO, NO,NO.
Let's all calm down and see how Ben handles himself during the rest of this mess before you all start yelling TRADE!


Agree here, from a Steeler fan since 1960. Trade - NO WAY! Discipline - Absolutely YES. The way I perceive it, as Ben has shown a lack of internal motivation or control to manage within expectations, external motivation and control must be applied, or his off-field behavior is less likely to change. Right now, to me, he's a jerk. I'd like to admire him again, but that will take change from him and time to prove the change.

Fan sonce the early 70s and totally agree. It took us 25 years to get a legit QB after Bradshaw left. I'd rather give Ben a chance at redemption that emotionally throw him out because of what is really perception and accusation. He should be punished as pointed out and he should be given very strict expectations and then its up to him. If he screws up again then release the hounds of hell on his butt.

I agree with with DB. Ben is a jerk who need to get a cgrip on reality and what a privelege he has been given. His boorish behavior has to stop. Only he can do that. Hopefully the message has gotten through and we see a better person evolve moving forward.

Northern_Blitz
04-15-2010, 08:47 AM
Has he been convicted of a crime- NO, NO, NO.


One NO for every accusation of assault.

I don't think I'd trade him, but as long as we got a good return (more than 2 x 1st) and sent him to the NFC, I'd be OK with it if that was the decision.

papillon
04-15-2010, 09:01 AM
Fan since 1969 and I'm fine with either scenario. I would prefer that Ben get some counseling (and while he's at it a bit of fashion advice) and remain a Steeler. If the Steelers see fit to trade him and get a good return, I'll be okay with that, but not happy about it.

Pappy

AngryAsian
04-15-2010, 09:15 AM
Fan since 1969 and I'm fine with either scenario. I would prefer that Ben get some counseling (and while he's at it a bit of fashion advice) and remain a Steeler. If the Steelers see fit to trade him and get a good return, I'll be okay with that, but not happy about it.

Pappy

Fan since I came off the boat in 73'. I am with you on your sentiments, Pap. I don't think its a stretch to ask for some kind of good behavior from the guy whose numbered jersey your children wear.

ramblinjim
04-15-2010, 09:18 AM
Been a fan since the late 70's and I love my Steelers. I also remember Cliff Stoudt, Mark Malone, Bubby, Mike Tomczak, Kordell, Kent Graham......and I don't look forward to going back to those days either.

Chadman
04-15-2010, 09:24 AM
Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..

AngryAsian
04-15-2010, 09:38 AM
Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..


Sorry to break one of the rules.... ****ING POST OF THE OFF-SEASON. This higher standard is the hallmark of the franchise. Surely nothing wrong in expecting the idealistic cornerstones that's the foundation of this organization.

Sugar
04-15-2010, 09:41 AM
If that's what you feel the "Steeler Way" is than, no, I wouldn't support that at all. Fortunately I don't see that as the Steeler way.

In fact, IMO, the Steeler Way means supporting your own in the face of spurrious accusations. Now if you're busted with 5 kilos of illegal drugs in your car that's different. The Steeler Way means hard work and being a good team member. It means never giving up on plays or games. It means winning championships with brutal Defense.

Would I trade any player for the good of the team? Sure. There's not a team in the league willing to give us what Ben would be worth, so for that reason- no chance!

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-15-2010, 09:44 AM
Just a comment...

We as fans have our own agenda when it comes to the Steelers. I don't think Ben will be traded if he changes his lifestyle. However, there will be no tolerance by the Rooneys. They find out he was out partying one time, I have confidence in saying that the Rooneys will view that as a step in the same direction. He is at that point. He doesn't have a pass anymore. He will then be moved. He will be suspended by the Rooney's if the league doesn't suspend him for this last allegation. Any fight, wrong words, bad teammate, anything...He will be moved. Peter King said on Sirius this morning that Dan Rooney was at a function yesterday receiving an award. He was asked if the Steelers organization supports Roethlisberger....His answer, "I'm not making any comment on that." Some of you tend to forget there is an "Old School" owner pulling the strings. Don't be surprised by anything that happens from this point forward. Prepare yourself. It is all in the hands of an adolescent millionare who might have a drinking problem and is out of strikes. You tell me what those odds are. Ben had to mature 10 years by Monday 4/12/2010. I don't know if that happen.

I for one, do not want to see Ben traded. I want to believe he will do a "180" and start all over and get himself right. BUT...The Steelers were just diagnosed with cancer. That is about "To the point" you could be on the matter. I hope my heart is right and my head is wrong on this one!!!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... lisberger/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/14/dan-rooney-says-no-comment-on-whether-steelers-support-roethlisberger/)

SO...That being said...If the owner of the Steelers has "no comment" in the media if he will support Roethlisberger...I feel the same way. I'm a Steeler fan first. I see black & gold before I see the name across the back!!!

Djfan
04-15-2010, 09:51 AM
OK Third Person Man, you got me. The logic is too solid for me to argue.

But, I have this caveat to add before I jump in that boat: Let's have it all wash out first. By that I mean that we have only heard one side from hidden accusers. I am still not settled about the idea that a VERY drunk girl who is willing to disregard rule of law to get there, had a fake ID taken away shortly before the incident, and who changed the story a couple of times, can hold his guilty or innocent status. Same argument with McNulty and the third myterious accuser.

Flush that out and I am in that boat.

Chadman
04-15-2010, 10:12 AM
Thanks Asian...not sure about 'post of the off-season', but Chadman appreciates the support.

Sugar- you are entitled to your view of 'The Steeler Way', even if we don't share the same view. Please don't feel that Chadman was saying you are wrong- everyone has a different opinion on how a football team should develop it's culture.

JPN & DJ...Chadman will group you two together...here's the thing about this case. After the McNulty affair news broke, Ben denied all claims & said he was innocent. The Steelers visually supported him in this.

After Georgia...Ben hasn't actually denied anything. He said that sex was consentual, sure, but this is all different. The Steelers, as a whole, have not stood by him, they are not offering support. Dan Rooney, given the opportunity to publicly support Ben chose to say that he has no comment on the situation. Ben has apologised for....what? If he wasn't guilty of something, what is there to apologise for? He didn't apologise for McNulty, did he? The Georgia DA wanted to prosecute, in Chadman's opinion, but it seems that the wishes of 'the victim' were adhered to. Ben....was very lucky. His Steeler career is secondary to his personal life in this- he could well have been in jail. Most of you know I supported Ben's innocence when this affair broke. Still do- he isn't 'guilty', in the same way Ray Lewis isn't guilty. BUT- the reaction from the Georgia DA, the Rooneys, the Steelers & in particular, Ben, just leave a bad taste in the mouth. One that, regardless of being charged or not, isn't going to go away. For as long as Ben is a Steeler, we have a 'sexual assaulter that got away with it' in our organisation, much like the Ravens have a 'murderer'.

The Steelers drew the 'hard line' on Santonio Holmes, and Chadman applauds them for it- surely not an easy decision to lower the 'quality' of your athletes in order to maintain a certain level of 'values'. But if they don't at least explore the possibilities of similar recourse with Ben, the Steelers will add 'double standards' to the increasing list of 'bad character issues' within the organisation.

Shawn
04-15-2010, 10:22 AM
Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..

Chadman you need to get an EFFIN GRIP! :lol:

Sorry...the original post cracked me up. Listen, I get ya. But, you have kinda done a 180 here and now you are off in la la land. This organization handles it's business and in the cases of proven wrong doing suspends and lets players go. The problem? No one has proven a crime with Ben. Shoot there wasn't even enough evidence to charge him. You are taking the word of a girl who initially said she wasn't raped and had a blood alcohol of .2 hours after her last drink.

Let me give you best/worst case scenerios with a trade...

Best-Ben was guilty...you got rid of a POS and you save the image of the franchise from Bengaldom.

Worst-While Ben might not have put himself in the best situations he was never guilty of a crime. He was actually victimized by two opportunists. The Steelers cut their franchise QB, don't win another SB for 20+ years and overreact to a situation in which no crime was proven. You traded away your franchise QB on the word of a couple chicks...one who was very drunk and another bragging about wanting to have Ben's baby. You failed to support one of your players and basically kicked him while he was down. You lose the support of your remaining players because your team doesn't go to bat for it's players.

I think the Steelers can gain alot of respect in this situation by enforcing their own strict in house suspension. That is the way to go in this particular situation. It wasn't like Ben had been charged/convicted of a crime, tweeted about wanting fans to off themselves or about his rape fetishes.

I believe trading Ben is overreacting to this situation.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 10:30 AM
Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..
:Bow :Bow :Bow

Chadman
04-15-2010, 10:31 AM
This organization handles it's business and in the cases of proven wrong doing suspends and lets players go. The problem? No one has proven a crime with Ben.

Not all the time, it doesn't. James Harrison, anyone?

You are right though Shawn, Chadman has done a 180. To a point. If you remember- Chadman's biggest issue was actually with the media, not Ben or his situation.

The issue Chadman now has is that despite not being charged, it would most certainly seem that there was something untoward that happened in Georgia. Lack of evidence, change of heart, secret payments...whatever the reason charges were not laid, you know it in your heart- something was not right.

So this is Chadman's point- if we, or more importantly, the Rooney's, have had enough of the bad behaviour, you can't just ship out Holmes & believe we are sweet again. It would say more to the fans, to the opposition, to the NFL & most importantly to the players in the organisation, if the Steelers take the hard line on it's highest profile player.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-15-2010, 10:45 AM
Thanks Asian...not sure about 'post of the off-season', but Chadman appreciates the support.

Sugar- you are entitled to your view of 'The Steeler Way', even if we don't share the same view. Please don't feel that Chadman was saying you are wrong- everyone has a different opinion on how a football team should develop it's culture.

JPN & DJ...Chadman will group you two together...here's the thing about this case. After the McNulty affair news broke, Ben denied all claims & said he was innocent. The Steelers visually supported him in this.

After Georgia...Ben hasn't actually denied anything. He said that sex was consentual, sure, but this is all different. The Steelers, as a whole, have not stood by him, they are not offering support. Dan Rooney, given the opportunity to publicly support Ben chose to say that he has no comment on the situation. Ben has apologised for....what? If he wasn't guilty of something, what is there to apologise for? He didn't apologise for McNulty, did he? The Georgia DA wanted to prosecute, in Chadman's opinion, but it seems that the wishes of 'the victim' were adhered to. Ben....was very lucky. His Steeler career is secondary to his personal life in this- he could well have been in jail. Most of you know I supported Ben's innocence when this affair broke. Still do- he isn't 'guilty', in the same way Ray Lewis isn't guilty. BUT- the reaction from the Georgia DA, the Rooneys, the Steelers & in particular, Ben, just leave a bad taste in the mouth. One that, regardless of being charged or not, isn't going to go away. For as long as Ben is a Steeler, we have a 'sexual assaulter that got away with it' in our organisation, much like the Ravens have a 'murderer'.

The Steelers drew the 'hard line' on Santonio Holmes, and Chadman applauds them for it- surely not an easy decision to lower the 'quality' of your athletes in order to maintain a certain level of 'values'. But if they don't at least explore the possibilities of similar recourse with Ben, the Steelers will add 'double standards' to the increasing list of 'bad character issues' within the organisation.

I don't know why you would group me with DJ. I know all the specifics of the cases and I was the one who just posted Rooney's interview. Ben is my favorite Steeler but the risk is to great and I'm a Steelers fan first. I would love to have him remain if we knew 100% he could change his life around. I stand behind whatever course the Rooney's choose. I hope they suspend him and monitor his progress. One slip...Show him the door. I think you got me confused with someone else.

The Steelers never supported Roethlisberger on any incident. They were concerned by his actions even in Nevada. Never did they say they support Ben. That wouldn't be a smart thing to do in case charges came forth. Ben never denied he had sex, he denied assault. Ben had consentual sex with her.

Ben is guilty of many things in Georgia. One is even chargable crime/misdemeanor but the DA won't pursue at the request of the alleged victim. Plus, the victim herself would be in trouble. One statement that came from the DA explains what the Rooneys are up against. "We are not condoning Mr. Roethlisberger's actions that night but we do not prosecute morals, we prosecute crimes." Dan Rooney doesn't have to follow that rule and he won't.

frankthetank1
04-15-2010, 10:49 AM
i agree you cant trade ben now. it would be more admirable of the organization if they got ben some help with counseling or something. this has to be a wake up call for ben. he must know that he dodged a bullet. i very much doubt he gets himself into any more trouble. if he does though and is accused of sexual assault for the thrid time there is no way he will still be a steeler. any more eff ups and i am on board with a trade

ikestops85
04-15-2010, 11:10 AM
Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..


Sorry to break one of the rules.... ****ING POST OF THE OFF-SEASON. This higher standard is the hallmark of the franchise. Surely nothing wrong in expecting the idealistic cornerstones that's the foundation of this organization.

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

Chadman ... way to lay it on the line. I think this organization has already made the choice that it is willing to accept bad behavior in exchange for winning. James Harrison being on the team is proof of that.

I think the Steelers try to do a cost benefit analysis on keeping the player. Get rid of Wilson, the under-achieving receiver and keep Harrison, the stud linebacker. Holmes took more analysis but in the end they didn't figure he would re-sign with us anyway so it would make us look better to get rid of him.

Ben's case though is very different. With Holmes, Harrison, and Wilson we KNOW they did something wrong. None of us KNOWS Ben did anything wrong. We might feel he did or assume he did but we don't know. I have a hard time condemning anyone for bad behavior without knowing they are responsible for it.

So, to get back on topic, how in the hell do you give up a championship winning QB when you don't know he's done wrong? No way do I trade Ben.

Ben might be an idiot but he's our idiot!!

:tt2 :tt2

Shawn
04-15-2010, 11:52 AM
This organization handles it's business and in the cases of proven wrong doing suspends and lets players go. The problem? No one has proven a crime with Ben.

Not all the time, it doesn't. James Harrison, anyone?

You are right though Shawn, Chadman has done a 180. To a point. If you remember- Chadman's biggest issue was actually with the media, not Ben or his situation.

The issue Chadman now has is that despite not being charged, it would most certainly seem that there was something untoward that happened in Georgia. Lack of evidence, change of heart, secret payments...whatever the reason charges were not laid, you know it in your heart- something was not right.

So this is Chadman's point- if we, or more importantly, the Rooney's, have had enough of the bad behaviour, you can't just ship out Holmes & believe we are sweet again. It would say more to the fans, to the opposition, to the NFL & most importantly to the players in the organisation, if the Steelers take the hard line on it's highest profile player.

I hear ya and know where you are coming from. If I knew Ben was guilty of a crime I would be first wanting to push him out of town. What I know...is something happened that night that didn't look good. Ben knew it, the DA knew it and the Steelers knew it. I don't believe it was rape. I believe it was "consensual" sex with a chick that was too drunk to give consent. I believe Ben paid her to make it go away at the advice of his attorney.

I do not believe Ben to be completely innocent of wrong doing. I don't believe he is a rapist. In my book, he has had all his chances. He will get no more from me. But, at this point I'm not ready to let him go. I hope the Rooneys feel the same.

Dee Dub
04-15-2010, 11:57 AM
I have to admit...I am very torn on this. I love Ben...have been a huge supporter of him before day 1. Many here will remember how I was flooding the Trib forum months before he was drafted on why the Steelers should draft. I did the same after wards repeatedly over and over and over saying he should start from day 1. But since the press conference from the D.A. I have have been feeling that maybe too much damage has been done. There is a huge part of me who wants to never get rid of Ben...but there is now a part that thinks maybe...just maybe...it's the best thing for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And if say a team like the 49ers offered their two (13th and 17th), first round picks...well...that is very tempting.

proudpittsburgher
04-15-2010, 12:04 PM
To those making the comparisons I still feel likel there was a difference between Ben/Harrison/Reed and what Holmes did. After their individual transgressions, none of them followed up with the kind of stuff Santonio did. Tweeting that the team was going to trade him, saying nansty stuff like wanting people dead on tweets, etc. Maybe I have some fanboi glasses on, and I will be the first to admit that I hated some of Santonio's "look at me" gestures on the field, but with every one of them, they all shut up after they did what they did, they all made apology statements, etc. Look, I know none of those statemets were worth anything, but they didn;t thumb their noses at the team. Santonio did. Now, if Reed continues to have run-ins with the law/sheets dispensers, well, he'll be gone too. Harrison and Ben the same, but to me, these situations are playing out different, because of the people involved. Just my opinion anyway.

Lebsteel
04-15-2010, 12:22 PM
I pretty much agree with Chadman. If Ben is traded...to say the Rams, this scenario, though highly unlikely should be considered:

Rams give us their #1 in 2010 and 2011 and their #2 in 2010. We then trade down to #6 with Seahawks and they give us their #1 next year. So, we draft Eric Berry at #6, Kyle Wilson at #18 and trade #33 (from the Rams) and #52 to say, while we are dreaming, Atlanta who doesn't have a Rd. 2 pick, and draft Pouncey at #19. So, this year we get Berry, Wilson and Pouncey.

Next year we have three #1 picks (Rams, Seahawks and ours). With the 2011 picks we take our future QB, stud OL and DE: Andrew Luck QB Stanford, Gabe Carimi, OT Wisconsin and then Jared Crick, DT Nebraska. A huge fantasy, but even though I don't want to see Roethlisberger go, a scenario like this would definitely help the franchise in the long run...

steelblood
04-15-2010, 01:11 PM
Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..


Sorry to break one of the rules.... ****ING POST OF THE OFF-SEASON. This higher standard is the hallmark of the franchise. Surely nothing wrong in expecting the idealistic cornerstones that's the foundation of this organization.

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

Chadman ... way to lay it on the line. I think this organization has already made the choice that it is willing to accept bad behavior in exchange for winning. James Harrison being on the team is proof of that.

I think the Steelers try to do a cost benefit analysis on keeping the player. Get rid of Wilson, the under-achieving receiver and keep Harrison, the stud linebacker. Holmes took more analysis but in the end they didn't figure he would re-sign with us anyway so it would make us look better to get rid of him.

Ben's case though is very different. With Holmes, Harrison, and Wilson we KNOW they did something wrong. None of us KNOWS Ben did anything wrong. We might feel he did or assume he did but we don't know. I have a hard time condemning anyone for bad behavior without knowing they are responsible for it.

So, to get back on topic, how in the hell do you give up a championship winning QB when you don't know he's done wrong? No way do I trade Ben.

Ben might be an idiot but he's our idiot!!

:tt2 :tt2

You cheer chadman, but you don't really agree with him.

1. You don't know if Ben did anything wrong. Chadman certainly says he did.

2. You don't want him traded.

I'm not sure what you are applauding. Free speech?

Slapstick
04-15-2010, 01:11 PM
Ray Lewis had his day in court...

All Ben gets is a lifetime of judgment in the court of public opinion...

In the Ray Lewis case, he was charged and tried...

Ben gets all of the negatives without the opportunity to do anything to clear his name...and he'll most likely be sued on top of it all...

I'm not proclaiming Ben's innocence, but I do presume it...

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 01:34 PM
Ray Lewis had his day in court...

All Ben gets is a lifetime of judgment in the court of public opinion...

In the Ray Lewis case, he was charged and tried...

Ben gets all of the negatives without the opportunity to do anything to clear his name...and he'll most likely be sued on top of it all...

I'm not proclaiming Ben's innocence, but I do presume it...

Ben had a chance after the McNulty case to clear his name... a year later he chose to go in a bathroom to party (allegedly) and provided shots to a bunch of college chicks.

By having a 2 for 1 with SA Ben makes it hard on himself to get sympathy from some fans.

birtikidis
04-15-2010, 01:44 PM
I hear what chadman is saying. and I agree. to a point. I've coached HS ball for three years, and I developed my philosophy when it comes to character very quickly. I would rather lose with good kids, then win with troublemakers. BUT, I would really like to see a little more information come out before I start leaning in any direction. We haven't even heard from Ben other than a quick, nearly spur of the moment PC.

AngryAsian
04-15-2010, 03:27 PM
Just a notation....

After reading the posts on this and other threads, I am amazed at some people's perception of the "discussions" being rendered. I never have gotten one vibe that there's anybody on this board who wants to see their two time Superbowl Championship quarterback traded. And though I've sensed a great amount of disappointment from the fans on this board, I don't think anybody has outright said they feel Ben is guilty of anything but bad judgement.

Part of my personal pride in being a fan is the 'against the grain' approach this organization has taken in building its team. An approach that has consistently produced a competitive product through the decades. Its just a difficult pill to swallow when fans of other teams (who detest the Steelers, I assume because of our winning tradition) lumped our franchise QB with people like Ray Ray and Pac Man. I really could care less.... I'm a supporter of the team and not the individual... its not like Jack Lambert was a model of decorum and manners off the field, but I have to admit that for the first time, I have no real retort to the opposing fans' ridicule of this situation. The ridicule doesn't even stem from the fact that they believe Ben to be a sexual predator, but more so that he's a dumbazz, who needs to grow up.

Just wanted to clarify that there really aren't "NAY SAYERS" on this board... just some pragmatists who want their team to succeed and are prepared and willing to accept courses of action that would regain our championship form without compromising the core values of the team. It sounds like Ben will have an opportunity to right his ship... I hope it yields a renewal in his commitment to his profession while yielding more championships for the organization whose fans are the most devoted in the world.

Lebsteel
04-15-2010, 04:07 PM
Just a notation....

After reading the posts on this and other threads, I am amazed at some people's perception of the "discussions" being rendered. I never have gotten one vibe that there's anybody on this board who wants to see their two time Superbowl Championship quarterback traded. And though I've sensed a great amount of disappointment from the fans on this board, I don't think anybody has outright said they feel Ben is guilty of anything but bad judgement.

Part of my personal pride in being a fan is the 'against the grain' approach this organization has taken in building its team. An approach that has consistently produced a competitive product through the decades. Its just a difficult pill to swallow when fans of other teams (who detest the Steelers, I assume because of our winning tradition) lumped our franchise QB with people like Ray Ray and Pac Man. I really could care less.... I'm a supporter of the team and not the individual... its not like Jack Lambert was a model of decorum and manners off the field, but I have to admit that for the first time, I have no real retort to the opposing fans' ridicule of this situation. The ridicule doesn't even stem from the fact that they believe Ben to be a sexual predator, but more so that he's a dumbazz, who needs to grow up.

Just wanted to clarify that there really aren't "NAY SAYERS" on this board... just some pragmatists who want their team to succeed and are prepared and willing to accept courses of action that would regain our championship form without compromising the core values of the team. It sounds like Ben will have an opportunity to right his ship... I hope it yields a renewal in his commitment to his profession while yielding more championships for the organization whose fans are the most devoted in the world.
:Clap :Clap Yes, sadly, my reply to everyone here in Bungaland is, "Yep, apparently Ben is a real jerk who is not very smart." I can't condone his off the field actions, but because I am a diehard Steeler fan, I will continue to cheer for him on the field...at least until he is traded... :wink:

He may be as dumb as a box of rocks, but he still wasn't dumb enough to do something like this:

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/carson-palmer_weenie.jpg

:lol: :bungalssuck

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-15-2010, 04:57 PM
From what Rooney said, it appears the Steelers will give Ben an opportunity to make things right. He will be suspended and the evaluation process will continue from there. However, I do believe he is on a short leash and all behavior will be monitored. Because Ben is the best thing since Bradshaw on the field...I will give him a chance to redeem himself and continue to support my favorite Steeler. If he slips up...I'm putting the Steelers first! No excuses...No explanation...You spent your last token.

stlrz d
04-15-2010, 09:25 PM
Just a notation....

After reading the posts on this and other threads, I am amazed at some people's perception of the "discussions" being rendered. I never have gotten one vibe that there's anybody on this board who wants to see their two time Superbowl Championship quarterback traded. And though I've sensed a great amount of disappointment from the fans on this board, I don't think anybody has outright said they feel Ben is guilty of anything but bad judgement.

Part of my personal pride in being a fan is the 'against the grain' approach this organization has taken in building its team. An approach that has consistently produced a competitive product through the decades. Its just a difficult pill to swallow when fans of other teams (who detest the Steelers, I assume because of our winning tradition) lumped our franchise QB with people like Ray Ray and Pac Man. I really could care less.... I'm a supporter of the team and not the individual... its not like Jack Lambert was a model of decorum and manners off the field, but I have to admit that for the first time, I have no real retort to the opposing fans' ridicule of this situation. The ridicule doesn't even stem from the fact that they believe Ben to be a sexual predator, but more so that he's a dumbazz, who needs to grow up.

Just wanted to clarify that there really aren't "NAY SAYERS" on this board... just some pragmatists who want their team to succeed and are prepared and willing to accept courses of action that would regain our championship form without compromising the core values of the team. It sounds like Ben will have an opportunity to right his ship... I hope it yields a renewal in his commitment to his profession while yielding more championships for the organization whose fans are the most devoted in the world.

I respectfully disagree. Look around and you'll see why.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 09:34 PM
Just a notation....

After reading the posts on this and other threads, I am amazed at some people's perception of the "discussions" being rendered. I never have gotten one vibe that there's anybody on this board who wants to see their two time Superbowl Championship quarterback traded. And though I've sensed a great amount of disappointment from the fans on this board, I don't think anybody has outright said they feel Ben is guilty of anything but bad judgement.

Part of my personal pride in being a fan is the 'against the grain' approach this organization has taken in building its team. An approach that has consistently produced a competitive product through the decades. Its just a difficult pill to swallow when fans of other teams (who detest the Steelers, I assume because of our winning tradition) lumped our franchise QB with people like Ray Ray and Pac Man. I really could care less.... I'm a supporter of the team and not the individual... its not like Jack Lambert was a model of decorum and manners off the field, but I have to admit that for the first time, I have no real retort to the opposing fans' ridicule of this situation. The ridicule doesn't even stem from the fact that they believe Ben to be a sexual predator, but more so that he's a dumbazz, who needs to grow up.

Just wanted to clarify that there really aren't "NAY SAYERS" on this board... just some pragmatists who want their team to succeed and are prepared and willing to accept courses of action that would regain our championship form without compromising the core values of the team. It sounds like Ben will have an opportunity to right his ship... I hope it yields a renewal in his commitment to his profession while yielding more championships for the organization whose fans are the most devoted in the world.

:Beer

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-15-2010, 09:49 PM
I think the sentiments expressed in the TPM (Third Person Man-ifesto) are admirable, but have a hard time seeing how they work in real life.

Fire Holmes. Fire Ben. Fire Harrison. Fire Reed. Fire Spaeth. Who did I miss?

I think that takes care of it, now we've got only good guys on the team (till the next one).

Is that what people want?

Slapstick
04-15-2010, 11:25 PM
Well, I guess you could attempt to make it a "black and white" issue by saying that either you support "The Steeler Way" or you support "winning at all costs", but that's really just a bunch of crap and a very facile argument...

Let's take a look at the facts concerning two players still on the team:

Jeff Reed: cited for disorderly conduct and criminal mischief on 2/14/2009. Two misdemeanors. Reed pled guilty and paid a fine of $543.50. Whoop de do.
Cited for public intoxication on 10/18/2009. Reed performed 40 hours of community service and the charges were dropped.

Truly, Jeff Reed is quite the hardened criminal and by allowing him to stay on the roster, the Steelers have turned their back on "The Steeler Way". :roll:

James Harrison: Okay, this one is dicier. James Harrison was arrested for domestic violence in March of 2008. Charges were dropped in April after James Harrison completed anger management counseling and psychological counseling.

So, what has James done since then? Nothing. If giving someone a second chance is "winning at all costs", then so be it...but, again, that's a bunch of crap...

Now, let's look at two guys who are no longer Steelers:

Cedrick Wilson: Released in March of 2008 after being charged with simple assault, harrassment and disorderly conduct for assaulting his ex-girlfriend. On the surface, t doesn't seem to be too different from Harrison's case, right?

Until you realize that this incident took place two months after Wilson's ex-girlfriend was involved in a twelve-hour armed stand-off with police at Cedrick's house. She shoots a gun at police and he assaults her at a bar two months later?

Santonio Holmes: How many chances should the Steelers have given him? They dealt with three arrests, one of which was for possession of marijuana. Then, the guy fails a drug test and goes crazy on his Twitter account? I'm not even mentioning the alleged assault, because charges weren't filed...

He was given more than enough chances...

What does this have to do with Ben? I don't know...

I do know that in every case that Ben's case has been compared to (Ray Lewis, Leonard Little, Kobe Bryant) ALL OF THOSE ATHLETES WERE CHARGED WIH A CRIME. Ben has been (legally) charged with bupkus. When you are charged, the DA has evidence. When you are not charged, the DA has no evidence.

So, if there is no actual evidence linking someone to a crime, why must that person be presumed guilty? It makes no sense to me.

Three alleged sexual assaults have been linked to Ben Roethlisberger in the media (including the one from the douchebag lawyer on the radio show) but not a single charge has been brought.

I can only assume that Ben Roehtlisberger is the most gifted serial rapist in the world, able to force himself on all of these women but somehow not leaving any evidence...

I presume Ben's innocence for the same reason that I don't talk about believing in ghosts or poltergeists...I'm not saying that ghosts don't exist, I just haven't seen any real evidence to make me believe that they do...

Chadman
04-16-2010, 02:39 AM
Just to clarify- Chadman has never said he thinks Ben raped this girl.

Not once.

BUT- whatever he has 'done', is enough to incense the Rooney's, to make Ben apologise for his actions, to earn the ire of the NFL, etc.

There is 'something' there- we just don't know what.

It would seem the real reason there is no charge against him is that the 'victim' has decided not to follow through with the accusation.

There could be several reasons that she chose to do this- too many to go into detail about. But at no stage has ANYBODY other than Ben's lawyer say he was innocent.

Chadman's whole point here was not necessarily victimise Ben, but to show that the only way the Steelers can really get back to a position where they can truly say that character is of great concern to the organisation is to cut loose the bad seeds & breed a new generation of high quality character players.

If the Steelers can't do that, or if supporters can't see the merit in doing it- we should stop ragging on the Bengals & Ravens of the NFL- the Steelers are now well and truly tarred with the same brush.

So the question is (and it's a personal one), is that the sort of team you want to support? Or do you want that Steeler uniform to mean a little more?

stlrz d
04-16-2010, 07:48 AM
Just to clarify- Chadman has never said he thinks Ben raped this girl.

Not once.

BUT- whatever he has 'done', is enough to incense the Rooney's, to make Ben apologise for his actions, to earn the ire of the NFL, etc.

There is 'something' there- we just don't know what.

It would seem the real reason there is no charge against him is that the 'victim' has decided not to follow through with the accusation.

There could be several reasons that she chose to do this- too many to go into detail about. But at no stage has ANYBODY other than Ben's lawyer say he was innocent.

Chadman's whole point here was not necessarily victimise Ben, but to show that the only way the Steelers can really get back to a position where they can truly say that character is of great concern to the organisation is to cut loose the bad seeds & breed a new generation of high quality character players.

If the Steelers can't do that, or if supporters can't see the merit in doing it- we should stop ragging on the Bengals & Ravens of the NFL- the Steelers are now well and truly tarred with the same brush.

So the question is (and it's a personal one), is that the sort of team you want to support? Or do you want that Steeler uniform to mean a little more?

So how would you feel if the Steelers cut ties with Ben and eventually the story comes out that everything that took place was consensual? I don't care about the "ire" of the NFL...no one knows for sure what happened and just because people are stupid enough to take salacious reports of what happened that night (told entirely from the accuser's side) as fact does not mean the Steelers should be stupid enough to cut ties with Ben without knowing for sure.

As for other teams and making fun of them, some of us realize these kinds of things can happen to any player on any team so we don't point fingers at other teams...because eventually we'll have fingers pointed at us. The Ravens fan I work with hasn't said a word to me about this because he knows I've never given him a hard time about the behavior of any of their players.

Chadman
04-16-2010, 09:53 AM
Just to clarify- Chadman has never said he thinks Ben raped this girl.

Not once.

BUT- whatever he has 'done', is enough to incense the Rooney's, to make Ben apologise for his actions, to earn the ire of the NFL, etc.

There is 'something' there- we just don't know what.

It would seem the real reason there is no charge against him is that the 'victim' has decided not to follow through with the accusation.

There could be several reasons that she chose to do this- too many to go into detail about. But at no stage has ANYBODY other than Ben's lawyer say he was innocent.

Chadman's whole point here was not necessarily victimise Ben, but to show that the only way the Steelers can really get back to a position where they can truly say that character is of great concern to the organisation is to cut loose the bad seeds & breed a new generation of high quality character players.

If the Steelers can't do that, or if supporters can't see the merit in doing it- we should stop ragging on the Bengals & Ravens of the NFL- the Steelers are now well and truly tarred with the same brush.

So the question is (and it's a personal one), is that the sort of team you want to support? Or do you want that Steeler uniform to mean a little more?

So how would you feel if the Steelers cut ties with Ben and eventually the story comes out that everything that took place was consensual? I don't care about the "ire" of the NFL...no one knows for sure what happened and just because people are stupid enough to take salacious reports of what happened that night (told entirely from the accuser's side) as fact does not mean the Steelers should be stupid enough to cut ties with Ben without knowing for sure.

As for other teams and making fun of them, some of us realize these kinds of things can happen to any player on any team so we don't point fingers at other teams...because eventually we'll have fingers pointed at us. The Ravens fan I work with hasn't said a word to me about this because he knows I've never given him a hard time about the behavior of any of their players.


Just for one second- consider this- would the Steelers, Dan Rooney, Roger Goodall & the NFL make anything of this whole incident based on just newspaper reports?

Sure, we here on Planet Steelers react to newspaper reports, but come on- you think the Rooney's are basing this off what they hear on TV?

To simply say that this has all been blown out of proportion because of the media is somewhat.....hopeful. Media beat-ups are generally just that- beat ups. And teams, good teams anyway, treat them with the respect they deserve.

Whatever Ben has done is enough for the owners to be upset, and willing to take action regardless of the NFL's decision. Consentual sex with a stranger doesn't seem to quite hit the mark on the level of unhappiness, does it? Think about it- how often do the Rooney's make rash judgement calls?

We may never find out 'the truth', but there is more to this story than two horny adults losing their inhibitions one night, and regretting it later. If it were just that- the story would have zero legs & would never have gone this far.

Slapstick
04-16-2010, 10:14 AM
Actually, I do believe that the Rooney's and the NFL will be disciplining Ben expressly because of what happened in the media...

What is happening in the media is a huge black eye to the Steelers franchise as well as to the NFL...the media is using Ben's alleged conduct to sell stories and therefore tarnish the public image of the Steelers and the NFL...

So, yes, it is absolutely about media and public perception...

fordfixer
04-17-2010, 12:06 AM
Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..


Sorry to break one of the rules.... ****ING POST OF THE OFF-SEASON. This higher standard is the hallmark of the franchise. Surely nothing wrong in expecting the idealistic cornerstones that's the foundation of this organization.
:Agree

stlrz d
04-17-2010, 12:17 AM
Sorry to break one of the rules.... ****ING POST OF THE OFF-SEASON. This higher standard is the hallmark of the franchise. Surely nothing wrong in expecting the idealistic cornerstones that's the foundation of this organization.

Did we have those higher standards when Ernie Holmes was shooting at cops? Or when Justin Strzelczyk led cops on a wild chase that ended with him dying in a fiery crash? Or when Carlton Haselrig was arrested for drunk driving or allegedly assaulting a 7 year old child? How about when Jerome Bettis supposedly assaulted a woman? Or there's the case of Greg Lloyd allegedly putting a gun in his son's mouth and to his ex-wife's head?

And the list goes on and on.

The idea that the Steelers organization is somehow more pure or holy or has a higher standard is a myth propagated by fans who wish to feel superior. Sorry man, but that's the way it is.

Sugar
04-17-2010, 12:19 AM
Actually, I do believe that the Rooney's and the NFL will be disciplining Ben expressly because of what happened in the media...

What is happening in the media is a huge black eye to the Steelers franchise as well as to the NFL...the media is using Ben's alleged conduct to sell stories and therefore tarnish the public image of the Steelers and the NFL...

So, yes, it is absolutely about media and public perception...

It's all about the PR baby.