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View Full Version : Hmmm...interesting reading...



Chadman
04-14-2010, 07:55 PM
http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs ... rt-uu.aspx (http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/bobsmizik/archive/2010/04/14/ss-ert-uu.aspx)

Kind of what Chadman has been thinking- if the Steelers really want to be 'The Pittsburgh Steelers', upstanding, moral beacons of the NFL, then perhaps we should take our lumps & deal with being a lesser team...without Ben...but strengthening the team resolve, the character of the organisation, for the future...

It's worth contemplating.

spyboots
04-14-2010, 08:07 PM
No.

birtikidis
04-14-2010, 08:09 PM
I wish everyone would take aabout a week to let everything digest before writing these ridiculous articles...

stlrz d
04-14-2010, 08:44 PM
No.

Agreed.

Anything "written" by Bob Smizek should be banned from this forum forever. How 'bout it, mods? :lol:

ghettoscott
04-14-2010, 08:50 PM
ufck that hsit.

still love that sig Chadmanneth....

Sugar
04-14-2010, 09:22 PM
No, I'm thinking it's really not worth contemplating at all.

LouSteel
04-14-2010, 09:56 PM
When Ben was accused of assault by McNulty, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Lord knows the world has plenty of crazies :lol:

I'm also willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with this accusation. Ben hasn't been charged -- let alone convicted -- of a crime.

Until Ben is convicted of a crime, he is innocent until proven guilty, just like every other American.

BUT... consider:

If Ben won't tone back his lifestyle he is going to be a target for these claims in the future. Bad people will see him and think "ah ha, here's a chance to make some cash."
[/*:m:2sbmyvta]
Ben's actions reflect very poorly on both the NFL and the Steelers. If I was twice accused of sexual assault and was the face of my company, I'd be out on my ass in no time flat. The next accusation, truthful or not, will likely lead to a major suspension.
[/*:m:2sbmyvta]
Additionally, it's possible that Goodell may impose restrictions Ben may not want to live with. With rumors swirling about Ben entering an alcohol abuse program, any small violation there could lead to much stricter sanctions. I'd assume if Goodell mandated this program it would fall under the NFL substance program...
[/*:m:2sbmyvta]
While QBs have a much longer shelf life than other positions, Ben isn't a traditional pocket passer. He takes a ton of hits and relies much more on guts and his feet to make plays. He's a concussion or two away from big trouble.[/*:m:2sbmyvta]

With all that in mind, maybe it is time to strike while the iron is hot. We'd be able to get two first round picks for Ben without breaking a sweat.

I'm a fan of the Steelers -- I pull for this team, which has the best ownership of any NFL team. And if the owners decide that Ben isn't going to be able to stay out of trouble, I'll be happy with that decision.

So long as they get more than a 5th round pick for Ben :lol: :tt1

stlrz d
04-14-2010, 10:05 PM
No, I'm thinking it's really not worth contemplating at all.

I can't wait for the season to start so people will kindly STFU with all this trade Ben BS.

AngryAsian
04-14-2010, 11:57 PM
For two first round picks? I say pull the trigger. Let the beatings begin!!!

Steel Life
04-15-2010, 12:16 AM
No, I'm thinking it's really not worth contemplating at all.

I can't wait for the season to start so people will kindly STFU with all this trade Ben BS.
Agreed...all the "chicken littles" are driving me crazy.

grotonsteel
04-15-2010, 02:56 AM
No, I'm thinking it's really not worth contemplating at all.

I can't wait for the season to start so people will kindly STFU with all this trade Ben BS.

:Agree

Also I would be really pissed if Roger or Steelers suspend Big Ben for even 1 game. Make Big Ben do community service or some charity work.

steelblood
04-15-2010, 07:29 AM
At best, Ben is a jerk. But that jerk gives the Steelers their only chance to win a Super Bowl in the next two years.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-15-2010, 07:29 AM
If I were the front office, I'd be thinking like this:

1) Ben's trade value will be very very low if another episode like this occurs.
2) If Ben does everything he can to avoid these situations, it's pretty good odds that we as an organization won't have to go through this again. But if he doesn't "get" it, it seems almost inevitable that it will happen again.
2) So - let's make a best estimate of how likely it is that another episode will occur - interview him, talk to him, see if he "gets" it.
3) If he's so stubborn or stupid that we think he's likely to continue acting in ways that make a repeat episode, or three or four, more likely - trade him now while we can get something for him.
3) Otherwise - let's play football!

I trust the Rooney's to make the right decision.

SteelAbility
04-15-2010, 07:38 AM
No, I'm thinking it's really not worth contemplating at all.

I can't wait for the season to start so people will kindly STFU with all this trade Ben BS.

If the regular season starts and Ben is still with us it doesn't prove anything one way or the other about the merits of possibly trading Ben. If the right offer is made, he should be dealt. If no trade is effected, it could very well be a case of a huge strain created because his talent level is so high, but his perceived off-field problems are also very high, so the Rooneys simply cannot get an offer commensurate with his playing potential. It would be nice if people would learn to think an issue through before ramming a "STFU" in people's faces.

Your post shows exactly what you are all about ... getting a thrill out of ramming it in people's faces.

stlrz d
04-15-2010, 08:11 AM
Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

:roll:

Oviedo
04-15-2010, 08:31 AM
Ben short clearly be on a short leash with the franchise and be given a chance to redeem himself. Heck Tiger Woods was guilty of his trangressions and he is being embraced by the fans again. Ben has just been accused and has created a negative perception.

I also think we all need to remember that it took us 25 years to replace Bradshaw with a franchise QB. I would rather give Ben a chance to change his life around and prove he deserves our respect than just throw him out the door and wait another 25 years. I'm not that young anymore :D

Northern_Blitz
04-15-2010, 08:37 AM
If a trade happens now, I think the only reason will be that the current CBA gives the Steelers a unique opportunity. Personally, I don't think we should trade (unless we get an offer we can't refuse).

But, if they arn't confident Ben can avoid future problems:

1) His trade value may never be higher. And with a deep draft even if we can get a team to throw in an extra 3rd or so, it may make a difference. Another accusation, especially if it comes with charges or a conviction, makes his value less than Holmes'.

2) They can get away from the massive amount of $$ they still owe him. Limiting risk is usually a good idea.

And the only reason a trade is possible now,

3) There would be NO SALARY CAP PENALTY. There is no way a deal happens in any other off season. The cap penalty would be gigantic and cripple the team. Now, if they make a deal they would help the team by adding additional excellent young players, and it wouldn't affect how they pay everyone else on the team. If they think that they might make a deal NOW is the only time (in the next 4 years or so) they can do it if they believe that the salary cap will exist in a future CBA.

LouSteel
04-15-2010, 08:37 AM
Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

:roll:

Troy loses playing time due to injury. That's not something he can control. Thus, we can't make any assumptions on how much he will or won't play in the future.

There is little upside for trading him -- we don't know when his performance will really decline.

Ben, on the other hand, is looking to lose playing time due to his actions. He needs to get in control of that.

And if he gives the team the same "I'll do better" speech they heard after he stopped a Chrysler with his face... the same speech he gave after the FIRST accusation of sexual assault, management may start to believe that he isn't going to "change his ways" and that trouble is soon to follow.

That means there is far more upside for trading Ben while he still has some trade value.

Oviedo
04-15-2010, 08:40 AM
Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

:roll:

Troy loses playing time due to injury. That's not something he can control. Thus, we can't make any assumptions on how much he will or won't play in the future.

There is little upside for trading him -- we don't know when his performance will really decline.

Ben, on the other hand, is looking to lose playing time due to his actions. He needs to get in control of that.

And if he gives the team the same "I'll do better" speech they heard after he stopped a Chrysler with his face... the same speech he gave after the FIRST accusation of sexual assault, management may start to believe that he isn't going to "change his ways" and that trouble is soon to follow.

That means there is far more upside for trading Ben while he still has some trade value.

If Ben had Troy's morals we would not be dealing with this crap. Maybe ben should be hanging out with Troy versus Willie Colon and the OL.

Northern_Blitz
04-15-2010, 08:42 AM
Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

:roll:


I'd keep Troy. The probability of his football career ending because he gets sent to jail in the middle of a record contract is pretty low. I also woudn't have a problem explaining why I'm chearing for 43 to my daughter.

(For the record, I'm for keeping Ben too. But if someone offered us 2 1st rounders for Troy, I would consider it?)

LouSteel
04-15-2010, 08:55 AM
If Ben had Troy's morals we would not be dealing with this crap. Maybe ben should be hanging out with Troy versus Willie Colon and the OL.

:Agree

I personally don't want to trade Ben... but I understand the Steelers see and understand much more than I do. If the organization believes keeping Ben will only lead to more problems, I'm going to support whatever decision they make. :tt2

Oviedo
04-15-2010, 09:00 AM
If Ben had Troy's morals we would not be dealing with this crap. Maybe ben should be hanging out with Troy versus Willie Colon and the OL.

:Agree

I personally don't want to trade Ben... but I understand the Steelers see and understand much more than I do. If the organization believes keeping Ben will only lead to more problems, I'm going to support whatever decision they make. :tt2

I don't want to trade Ben either and I support the organization no mater what decision they make. My view has always been the uniform is more importnat than the person wearing it. That will always be my view.

The Rooney's have been good owners of this franchise for a long period of time. This means more to them on a lot more levels than the emotional attachments we have as fans so I trust their decisions.

papillon
04-15-2010, 09:03 AM
Let's trade Troy while his value is high. He had rest all last season so he'll be back and ready to go.

I say we should do it...who's with me?

:roll:

No, Troy manages to keep himself out of trouble in the off season and, hopefully, there will be no kick blocking team action for him this year and he remains healthy. The Steelers will have preeminent safety in the game playing for them. Trading him would be a bad idea.

Pappy

Steel Life
04-15-2010, 09:17 AM
Guys - I believe that D was being sarcastic...at least I hope so.

SteelAbility
04-15-2010, 09:46 AM
strlz_d was being sarcastic and he has a good point. The analogy isn't 100% because Troy and Ben are in very different ballparks as far as off-field behavior. But the point is valid, being that these are "once every 20-25 years" types of players. That being said, even with Troy there is a point at which a trade is worth it ... believe it or not.

Chadman
04-15-2010, 10:16 AM
strlz_d was being sarcastic and he has a good point. The analogy isn't 100% because Troy and Ben are in very different ballparks as far as off-field behavior. But the point is valid, being that these are "once every 20-25 years" types of players. That being said, even with Troy there is a point at which a trade is worth it ... believe it or not.

So are you saying that Ben's athletic ability reduces his need to be held accountable for his actions outside of football, because he knows that great players are treated differently?

Doesn't sound like something Dan Rooney would agree with...

ROLROC
04-15-2010, 10:19 AM
he!! no to trading Ben.

SteelAbility
04-15-2010, 10:47 AM
strlz_d was being sarcastic and he has a good point. The analogy isn't 100% because Troy and Ben are in very different ballparks as far as off-field behavior. But the point is valid, being that these are "once every 20-25 years" types of players. That being said, even with Troy there is a point at which a trade is worth it ... believe it or not.

So are you saying that Ben's athletic ability reduces his need to be held accountable for his actions outside of football, because he knows that great players are treated differently?

Doesn't sound like something Dan Rooney would agree with...

I'm saying that trading Ben has to have a balance between off-field accountability and on-field abilities. Right now it isn't clear how close Ben is to the allegations made. It is clear that the standards of criminal prosecution can't be met. The GA DAs comments seemed to point to "I would prosecute if the girl was on-board." That, and the constant referral to the girl as "the victim" has created very high concern about his off-field behavior. We can argue all day about whether or not that was fair. It is what it is and we have to live with it. But there is also merit to claims that his judgment is poor NOW, but can be corrected with some smarts, guidance, and strategy.

His on-field performance is obviously very high and, yes, he is a once-every-twenty-years type of a player. Therefore, trading him merits putting MUCH thought into it and, IMO, establishing an absolute non-negotiable minimum in what you'll take for him. There is a point at which he's worth it. That's a $1M debate.

But if you trade him away on the strength of allegations for well under what he's really worth, assuming the off-field stuff to be true or close to true or non-correctable in order to "send a message" and it comes out that it was all a "series of unfortunate events" you're going to feel like a total dunce.

Like it or not, there is uncertainty in the air until either further information comes out or Ben shows consistency, consistency, and then some more consistency.

aggiebones
04-16-2010, 05:39 PM
Even my church doesn't throw out sinners. Why would the Steelers?

He hasn't been in any trouble until this Summer (aside from a ticket for not wearing a helmet). So he had a bad run. He can start over to a degree and fix himself. He's not been in 5 types of trouble like Holmes on an expiring contract.
He deserves disciplined, not excommunicated. If he doesn't/can't or won't repair himself, we'll trade him to the Bengals.

aggiebones
04-16-2010, 05:40 PM
And, the difference between us and the Bengals is we have to deal with players from time to time. They went and gathered them all up from other teams because their organization is so devoid of talent evaluators that they had to take other people talent no mantte how tainted they were.