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SteelStallion
04-14-2010, 10:29 AM
I've been folllowing with interest and PlanetSteelers has been great as always.

I can't get past my level of disgust and I don't think I'll ever be able to root for Ben again. (I know a number of you are already having these discussions. And for me "he wasn't charged" is meaningless when he obviously has the financial wherewithal to make it go away and we're left pondering the impression that he's some sort of sexual predator.) Anyway if enough people feel that way, the fans, his teammates, and especially the Rooneys then the million dollar question is whether it would be in everybody's best interest for him to part ways with the Steelers? Interested to hear how you feel at this point after having more time to ponder.

NW Steeler
04-14-2010, 10:35 AM
I understand what you are saying. Yesterday after the other report/story came out involving another incident in Las Vegas, I was completely fed up. But that story has no legs either. Truth is, no one besides Ben and those women know what really happened. Now that I have calmed a bit, I am willing to give Ben the benefit of a doubt. If you listened to Doug Gottlieb on ESPN yesterday or this morning, he put a real interesting spin on the whole thing, basically saying that those passing judgement on Ben need to look at all the facts.

pfelix73
04-14-2010, 10:42 AM
No way. But if all this talk continues, he'll probably want to leave. Which just suks. He's a franchise QB. Something that is rare.



:tt1

RKSteel
04-14-2010, 10:42 AM
All I can say right now is that my 11yr old daughter is getting a new Health Miller jersey to replace her #7 jersey.

Whether he should be traded or if I can root for him again, I really don't know.

Winning goes a long way to making people forget past indescretions.

One thing I would like to hear between now and training camp is that Ben stays in Pittsburgh, working out, studying film and practicing with this WRs.

pfelix73
04-14-2010, 10:48 AM
By the time camp starts, unless the Steelers do something stupid and trade him, this will all be forgotten. I have no problems with my kids wearing his jersey.

:tt1

RKSteel
04-14-2010, 11:08 AM
By the time camp starts, unless the Steelers do something stupid and trade him, this will all be forgotten. I have no problems with my kids wearing his jersey.

:tt1Right now I have a problem with my daughter wearing the jersey of a guy, who is very lucky not to be arrested for rape.

Hopefully how he begins to conduct himself now and thoughout the rest of his career as a Steeler is more positive and less self destuctive.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-14-2010, 11:10 AM
Ben is my favorite Steeler...My children too.

Not to offend anyone...But don't be naive in thinking that Ben is a victim. After the first allegation, that thought had merit. He put himself in that position the second time based on the timeline.

First allegation should have been the eye opener for Ben. It wasn't...That indicates a problem. Sexual control problem, Alcohol, immaturity, a problem exists. A "man" of his profile CAN NOT have these problems as a player of the Pittsburgh Steelers. The "investment" is the only reason he is still with the Steelers.

There are 1,695 other NFL players that haven't been accused of sexual assault twice in the last year. Some older and some much younger than Ben. If they are staying out of trouble...What's the secret? I mean, everyone is saying it is so difficult to do, Ben's a target, why should he have to be home confined...Over 99% of the other NFL players don't have these problems.

I was a Steelers fan long before Ben came along and I will be a Steelers fan long after he has left.

The Steelers are Bigger than Ben Roethlisberger. Ben is a part of the Steelers.

I will stand behind the Steelers in any decision they make.

It is often referred to as a "Privilege" to play in the NFL...Not a right. So by simply letting Ben play in light of the negative publicity he has brought upon the Steelers and the threat of loss on their investment...You are rewarding him. They won't create a precedent of this magnitude just for Ben Roethlisberger. The Steelers could still suspend him for his actions while reach out to help him. Help him???

Based upon where these allegations have happened in his career & the circumstances surrounding them...I say Ben has a drinking problem. His elevated social stature from his success, playing QB for the greatest sports team in the world, and his rewarding contract, has put him on a destructive path. A path of which he is having a difficult time making intelligent decisions on. I believe the Steelers will reach out and try to get him back on the right path. The questions is...Will Ben want to be helped.

If the Steelers think Ben can be counselled and regain that Big Ben we all fell in love with...They will stand behind him. He is still my favorite, and I too will stand behind him if he wants help...If he wants to return to the right path in life. I am rooting that. If he chooses to continue down the same path and not admit to his problems...I want to move on without him.

Dee Dub
04-14-2010, 11:20 AM
I wont weigh in one way or the other...but I think a better question to Steeler fans is...

What is more important?

A) Having a franchise QB?

B) Or having a favorite football team that has an image of decency?

Shawn
04-14-2010, 11:34 AM
I don't think you have to choose either or. We can have a team with an image of decency and a franchise QB.

I don't root for Ben. I root for the Steelers. I don't like the Steelers based on one player so why would I root against the Steelers based on one player?

What Ben did to the fan base was taint winning. Even if we win a SB our rivals will always have something smart to say. We tend not to like that. So some would rather take their chances with McCoy, Tebow or Dixon. At least Ravens couldn't talk about "Rapelisberger".

If I knew Ben was a rapist...I wouldn't watch another game until they released him. We don't know all the facts. Even though Ben seems like a pompous acs...we don't know that he is a sexual preditor. So, until someone proves that to me...I'm watching...I'm cheering...and I hope Ben throws for 400 yards every game.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-14-2010, 11:35 AM
I hate losing.

But am I willing to win at ANY cost? In other words, is winning SO important that I am willing to sacrifice DECENCY and INTEGRITY? Not to me.


And my hope is that those who run the Steelers would look at it the same way.


Otherwise, what really sets the Steelers apart from teams like the *s?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-14-2010, 11:35 AM
I wont weigh in one way or the other...but I think a better question to Steeler fans is...

What is more important?

A) Having a franchise QB?

B) Or having a favorite football team that has an image of decency?

Vague

C) Winning

D) All of the Above

I pick D.

Prestige and success go hand in hand in the NFL. A franchise QB doesn't cancel out the rest. Look at both side of the spectrum. Raiders & Bengals. Bengals have had a franchise QB for a long time with no success. The Raiders can't seem to get a franchise QB. It has been a long time since a organization with low prestige has won a SB.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-14-2010, 11:38 AM
I hate losing.

But am I willing to win at ANY cost? In other words, is winning SO important that I am willing to sacrifice DECENCY and INTEGRITY? Not to me.


And my hope is that those who run the Steelers would look at it the same way.

Well put. And to your last statement...The definition of "The Rooney Way"!

BradshawsHairdresser
04-14-2010, 11:39 AM
It has been a long time since a organization with low prestige has won a SB.

Depends how you define "prestige". I would say cheating would qualify a team for "low prestige" (ie., *s).

I agree with most everything else you've said in this thread, though.

frankthetank1
04-14-2010, 11:41 AM
I don't think you have to choose either or. We can have a team with an image of decency and a franchise QB.

I don't root for Ben. I root for the Steelers. I don't like the Steelers based on one player so why would I root against the Steelers based on one player?

What Ben did to the fan base was taint winning. Even if we win a SB our rivals will always have something smart to say. We tend not to like that. So some would rather take their chances with McCoy, Tebow or Dixon. At least Ravens couldn't talk about "Rapelisberger".

If I knew Ben was a rapist...I wouldn't watch another game until they released him. We don't know all the facts. Even though Ben seems like a pompous acs...we don't know that he is a sexual preditor. So, until someone proves that to me...I'm watching...I'm cheering...and I hope Ben throws for 400 yards every game.

exactly!! that is the reason i wont make a judgement on ben as a person. how can any of us really? my gut feeling is he isnt a bad guy but he isnt all that bright and loves to party. one thing we all know if he was really a dirt bag then i very much doubt he would still be a steeler. the rooneys dont want criminals on the team so we will never have to make the choice between winning and morals.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-14-2010, 11:48 AM
It has been a long time since a organization with low prestige has won a SB.

Depends how you define "prestige". I would say cheating would qualify a team for "low prestige" (ie., *s).

I agree with most everything else you've said in this thread, though.

I could understand the arguement. However, even with the scandal, the Patriot organization ranks among the elite around the NFL. We as fans...tend to hold them in a different regard for different reasons. A Lions fans will look up to the Patriots but we as Steeler fans look down on them...We have our reasons! :wink:

Mister Pittsburgh
04-14-2010, 12:07 PM
By the time camp starts, unless the Steelers do something stupid and trade him, this will all be forgotten. I have no problems with my kids wearing his jersey.

:tt1

I think you must be dreaming if you think that is true. Prepare yourself to have it talked about nearly every game by the announcers and whoever else. This is attached to him and I don't really think there is a way to shake it. I don't even really know if winning another SB would shake it. Perception is 99% reality in America, like it or not. Just the way it is.

Ben wasn't charged this time, but the impression I get is around March 17th the chick got paid off and that ruined any shot the DA had of pressing charges. Had she not been paid the impression from the DA was he might of moved forward with it.

aggiebones
04-14-2010, 12:42 PM
I agree to the Steelers standards. We brag about them, so we need to uphold them. Here's my take on recent transgressions on the teams:

-Every player has some leeway. We are a society and these are you adults with piles of money. Their temptations are FAR higher than ours. Mental breakdowns happen. My building at work is 95% PhD in science. We had one kid with an offer for fullride to grad school at Harvard running a meth lab down the hall from me. I never noticed. We've had principle investigators sleeping with postdocs. Not illegal, but all agree it is sleezy. We have had sexual harrassment (bogus in my mind) and other cheatings and divorces. And on top of that most of our procurement staff were arrested or fired for buying things with government credit cards. Things like home maid services, etc. Totally ridiculous. The whole chain of command was fired. These people are hired to make sure scientists aren't over spending, lol. So all society has some issues and one issue is not enough.


As for the 3 problem players:
Reed - had some booze issues.
-Drinking and driving and fighting with towel rack.
-He corrects the driving part, but drinking too much with a ride home. Not too outrageous to me. He was mouthy to a cop so it was blown up, not much else. So he's had a couple embarrassing things. Sometimes 1 time is not eye opening. Another similar thing and he's probably out, but no sense in beating him up til that happens.

Big Ben - Problems growing.
-Not a friendly guy I guess when fans overly pester him, but not illegal.
-Motorcycle crash. Dumb, but no more illegal than a rolling stop. Costs us a season however which makes it a bigger item.
-Vegas problem. Its a farce and we all know it. She was a skank and he is a horny ape. Only thing it will cost is money to him eventually if it does anything.
-Georgia problem. This is a biggie. Younger drunk girl is likely taken advantage of. This ain't good. This one is a wake up call to everyone.
But I think its recoverable in a couple seasons. He'll be in lockdown mode for awhile. If all is well for a couple seasons and we either win a SB or we get close, then I could see him getting another contract here. If he doesn't return to form or there are any other transgressions, then he'll likely get replaced towards the back end of his contract.
IMO, he's not gone all the way over the line yet. Boys and girls have been doing inappropriate things for centuries. We don't know the extent of inappropriate in this case.

Holmes - Has done nothing image positive since he's been playing football.
-selling drugs (necessary in his mind, but a bad decision none the less)
-involved in a sexual case at OSU involving a few players.
-domestic abuse case
-drug possession multiple times
-multiple failed drug tests
-bar fight issue with 'lady'
-end of contract complaining during crisis
-foul language agaist everyone Steeler related.

Not even a closs call, he had to go. He's probably stoned right now frankly. Makes constant bad decisions in all phases of life. No other team besides the Jets would offer more than a 5th rounder. So that's telling you something because there are alot of win only franchises. I think he burns out in a few years after a mild injury slows him down a bit. I think we got his best years.


So Holmes is out appropriately, while Reed and Ben are on their last legs. Things are where they need to be. No sense in overly hammering either guy on the past. Let these things go a bit and if there's another flare up, then act swiftly.

feltdizz
04-14-2010, 01:17 PM
I am a Steeler fan... whether Ben stays or goes I will remain a Steeler fan. I cheer for the team not the players. I will never vouch for a player off the field just because they have exceptional talent on the field. A good QB doesn't mean he is a good guy at heart. A good LB doesn't mean he is a saint in his home.

I get a kick out of the "my girl can wear the #7 with pride" because he wasn't charged" crowd. With pride?? Really??? I guess these are the parents who would let their kids stay at MJ's house because he wasn't found guilty after the first case. Maybe that is too extreme but if their "creepy old neighbor" who gives kids candy was accused but not charged would they still let their kids go over to his porch?

I think these young girls who were Ben's jerseys will come home asking why they were called rapistberger or whatever nicknames other kids will come up with. In a year or 2 this will go away if Ben stays out of trouble but in the short term I think people will look at Big Ben and his avid supporters the same way we looked at and treated Kobe, PacMan, Bungle fans and the like.

Steel Life
04-14-2010, 01:31 PM
Here are the facts...Ben has not been charged with any crime, the rest is just conjecture & projection. You cannot say that he is guilty of anything except poor judgment & even then he might've been exonerated. You cannot play this game of "well if he had been charged" either, because there was an excellent chance he would've gotten off there too. As for the Reno situation, the likely conclusion is that he will escape any harm there as well. But again, it doesn't matter because there has been no crime. I get the moral issue some of you have, but he isn't the devil some of you are going to great lengths to portray him as & while we like for our players to be choirboys, they aren't. Using Ray Lewis as an example, Ben hasn't done ANYTHING remotely close to what he did - he wasn't involved in the killing of a man & he wasn't starring in amateur porn movies - & he's managed to reclaim his image & become beloved in his community, so why couldn't Ben? A true franchise QB is a once a generation player & they can't be found every draft regardless of what the experts say - so why would you want to run him off when he isn't guilty of anything? Just so you feel better?...please. And Dizz, don't ever make assumptions about what those of us with daughters would or would not let them do, you need to accept that there are differing opinions & not call parenting tolerances into question - that is not your place.

JAR
04-14-2010, 03:17 PM
Here are the facts...Ben has not been charged with any crime, the rest is just conjecture & projection. You cannot say that he is guilty of anything except poor judgment & even then he might've been exonerated. You cannot play this game of "well if he had been charged" either, because there was an excellent chance he would've gotten off there too. As for the Reno situation, the likely conclusion is that he will escape any harm there as well. But again, it doesn't matter because there has been no crime. I get the moral issue some of you have, but he isn't the devil some of you are going to great lengths to portray him as & while we like for our players to be choirboys, they aren't. Using Ray Lewis as an example, Ben hasn't done ANYTHING remotely close to what he did - he wasn't involved in the killing of a man & he wasn't starring in amateur porn movies - & he's managed to reclaim his image & become beloved in his community, so why couldn't Ben? A true franchise QB is a once a generation player & they can't be found every draft regardless of what the experts say - so why would you want to run him off when he isn't guilty of anything? Just so you feel better?...please. And Dizz, don't ever make assumptions about what those of us with daughters would or would not let them do, you need to accept that there are differing opinions & not call parenting tolerances into question - that is not your place.


:Clap :Clap The Catholic Church and Boy Scouts can't even uphold an image of "squeaky clean", anyone expecting a professional sports team to do so is delusional.

kindlecatsb'ng
04-14-2010, 04:15 PM
:tt1[/quote]

I think you must be dreaming if you think that is true. Prepare yourself to have it talked about nearly every game by the announcers and whoever else. This is attached to him and I don't really think there is a way to shake it. I don't even really know if winning another SB would shake it. Perception is 99% reality in America, like it or not. Just the way it is. (/quote)


This will continue to be mentioned whenever/however the media can work it in. It was mentioned when his sister Carlee was playing last month for Oklahoma University for the women's NCAA tournament game. The announcer mentioned that she was Ben Roethislberger's sister and went into the whole diatribe about Georgia. However, the other announcer said that this college will not allow the media to hound her, the newspapers haven't been writing about Ben's problems, and that she doesn't read what the media writes about Ben. She finished by saying that Carlee's parents will text her when she needs to know something.

What did Ben's issue have to do with Carlee playing basketball other than the same last name on the back of her shirt? and because of who Ben is.

stlrz d
04-14-2010, 08:12 PM
Here are the facts...Ben has not been charged with any crime, the rest is just conjecture & projection. You cannot say that he is guilty of anything except poor judgment & even then he might've been exonerated. You cannot play this game of "well if he had been charged" either, because there was an excellent chance he would've gotten off there too. As for the Reno situation, the likely conclusion is that he will escape any harm there as well. But again, it doesn't matter because there has been no crime. I get the moral issue some of you have, but he isn't the devil some of you are going to great lengths to portray him as & while we like for our players to be choirboys, they aren't. Using Ray Lewis as an example, Ben hasn't done ANYTHING remotely close to what he did - he wasn't involved in the killing of a man & he wasn't starring in amateur porn movies - & he's managed to reclaim his image & become beloved in his community, so why couldn't Ben? A true franchise QB is a once a generation player & they can't be found every draft regardless of what the experts say - so why would you want to run him off when he isn't guilty of anything? Just so you feel better?...please. And Dizz, don't ever make assumptions about what those of us with daughters would or would not let them do, you need to accept that there are differing opinions & not call parenting tolerances into question - that is not your place.

:Bow

feltdizz
04-14-2010, 08:35 PM
Here are the facts...Ben has not been charged with any crime, the rest is just conjecture & projection. You cannot say that he is guilty of anything except poor judgment & even then he might've been exonerated. You cannot play this game of "well if he had been charged" either, because there was an excellent chance he would've gotten off there too. As for the Reno situation, the likely conclusion is that he will escape any harm there as well. But again, it doesn't matter because there has been no crime. I get the moral issue some of you have, but he isn't the devil some of you are going to great lengths to portray him as & while we like for our players to be choirboys, they aren't. Using Ray Lewis as an example, Ben hasn't done ANYTHING remotely close to what he did - he wasn't involved in the killing of a man & he wasn't starring in amateur porn movies - & he's managed to reclaim his image & become beloved in his community, so why couldn't Ben? A true franchise QB is a once a generation player & they can't be found every draft regardless of what the experts say - so why would you want to run him off when he isn't guilty of anything? Just so you feel better?...please. And Dizz, don't ever make assumptions about what those of us with daughters would or would not let them do, you need to accept that there are differing opinions & not call parenting tolerances into question - that is not your place.

I think it's back azzward for guys to say they can now let their girls wear Ben's jersey with pride. If you don't like it then tough...

I never said Ben should be traded... but like I said before, if he was traded I wouldn't stop being a Steeler fan.

Some of you think criticizing Ben on or off the field is treason...

You guys need to get a grip and understand he didn't meet with Goodell because he has been a saint. Where was Tomlin, Rooney or any FO personnel during the press conference?

:Bow

Steel Life
04-15-2010, 01:02 AM
Here are the facts...Ben has not been charged with any crime, the rest is just conjecture & projection. You cannot say that he is guilty of anything except poor judgment & even then he might've been exonerated. You cannot play this game of "well if he had been charged" either, because there was an excellent chance he would've gotten off there too. As for the Reno situation, the likely conclusion is that he will escape any harm there as well. But again, it doesn't matter because there has been no crime. I get the moral issue some of you have, but he isn't the devil some of you are going to great lengths to portray him as & while we like for our players to be choirboys, they aren't. Using Ray Lewis as an example, Ben hasn't done ANYTHING remotely close to what he did - he wasn't involved in the killing of a man & he wasn't starring in amateur porn movies - & he's managed to reclaim his image & become beloved in his community, so why couldn't Ben? A true franchise QB is a once a generation player & they can't be found every draft regardless of what the experts say - so why would you want to run him off when he isn't guilty of anything? Just so you feel better?...please. And Dizz, don't ever make assumptions about what those of us with daughters would or would not let them do, you need to accept that there are differing opinions & not call parenting tolerances into question - that is not your place.

I think it's back azzward for guys to say they can now let their girls wear Ben's jersey with pride. If you don't like it then tough...

I never said Ben should be traded... but like I said before, if he was traded I wouldn't stop being a Steeler fan.

Some of you think criticizing Ben on or off the field is treason...

You guys need to get a grip and understand he didn't meet with Goodell because he has been a saint. Where was Tomlin, Rooney or any FO personnel during the press conference?

:Bow
As for the jersey thing, fine...whatever - if that makes you feel better then by all means. Both my kids - boy & girl - have been raised as Steeler fans & both have Ben's jersey & if they want to wear it then it's fine by me. And if you don't like it, then its your problem - see, it goes both ways.

Getting a grip is what a lot of us have saying too...that a lot of this is media driven & some of you are acting that for us to be alright with Ben is like supporting a criminal - which he isn't because he's been cleared...unlike Ray Lewis who plea-bargained down to a obstruction of justice charge or Leroy Hill who beat his girlfriend or Rae Carruth who had his girlfriend killed or Mark Chumura who actually did rape someone.

As for team support...they let him use the facility didn't they? And you can't make any assumptions because you really don't know if they chose not to be there or if they simply weren't available. In the end it doesn't matter, all that matters is what Ben & the team do from here on out. If the Rooneys have any sense, they'll go along with whatever punishment he's given & then throw all their effort into helping turn things around...anything less & they're not the owners they're portrayed as being.

Leper Friend
04-15-2010, 09:02 AM
I am a Steeler fan... whether Ben stays or goes I will remain a Steeler fan. I cheer for the team not the players. I will never vouch for a player off the field just because they have exceptional talent on the field. A good QB doesn't mean he is a good guy at heart. A good LB doesn't mean he is a saint in his home.

I get a kick out of the "my girl can wear the #7 with pride" because he wasn't charged" crowd. With pride?? Really??? I guess these are the parents who would let their kids stay at MJ's house because he wasn't found guilty after the first case. Maybe that is too extreme but if their "creepy old neighbor" who gives kids candy was accused but not charged would they still let their kids go over to his porch?

I think these young girls who were Ben's jerseys will come home asking why they were called rapistberger or whatever nicknames other kids will come up with. In a year or 2 this will go away if Ben stays out of trouble but in the short term I think people will look at Big Ben and his avid supporters the same way we looked at and treated Kobe, PacMan, Bungle fans and the like.
I don't understand when people, especially grown men, get so caught up in players instead of the team.We are all Steeler fans , before and after Ben.

By all indications , Ben is not a great guy.Probably more of a bad guy. I could care less.The only thing I care about in his personal life is when he or any other player does stupid things that put the TEAM in jeapordy.

Nobody really knows ehat any of these guys are like anyway. You only know the public image that the agents and handlers try to sell you.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 10:40 AM
I am a Steeler fan... whether Ben stays or goes I will remain a Steeler fan. I cheer for the team not the players. I will never vouch for a player off the field just because they have exceptional talent on the field. A good QB doesn't mean he is a good guy at heart. A good LB doesn't mean he is a saint in his home.

I get a kick out of the "my girl can wear the #7 with pride" because he wasn't charged" crowd. With pride?? Really??? I guess these are the parents who would let their kids stay at MJ's house because he wasn't found guilty after the first case. Maybe that is too extreme but if their "creepy old neighbor" who gives kids candy was accused but not charged would they still let their kids go over to his porch?

I think these young girls who were Ben's jerseys will come home asking why they were called rapistberger or whatever nicknames other kids will come up with. In a year or 2 this will go away if Ben stays out of trouble but in the short term I think people will look at Big Ben and his avid supporters the same way we looked at and treated Kobe, PacMan, Bungle fans and the like.
I don't understand when people, especially grown men, get so caught up in players instead of the team.We are all Steeler fans , before and after Ben.

By all indications , Ben is not a great guy.Probably more of a bad guy. I could care less.The only thing I care about in his personal life is when he or any other player does stupid things that put the TEAM in jeapordy.

Nobody really knows ehat any of these guys are like anyway. You only know the public image that the agents and handlers try to sell you.

I feel the same way... I don't care what Ben does as long as it doesn't impact the team negatively.

It's not like we made this stuff up about Ben to harm him or Kordell Stewart him.

feltdizz
04-15-2010, 10:53 AM
[quote="Steel Life":3cxvgjwj]Here are the facts...Ben has not been charged with any crime, the rest is just conjecture & projection. You cannot say that he is guilty of anything except poor judgment & even then he might've been exonerated. You cannot play this game of "well if he had been charged" either, because there was an excellent chance he would've gotten off there too. As for the Reno situation, the likely conclusion is that he will escape any harm there as well. But again, it doesn't matter because there has been no crime. I get the moral issue some of you have, but he isn't the devil some of you are going to great lengths to portray him as & while we like for our players to be choirboys, they aren't. Using Ray Lewis as an example, Ben hasn't done ANYTHING remotely close to what he did - he wasn't involved in the killing of a man & he wasn't starring in amateur porn movies - & he's managed to reclaim his image & become beloved in his community, so why couldn't Ben? A true franchise QB is a once a generation player & they can't be found every draft regardless of what the experts say - so why would you want to run him off when he isn't guilty of anything? Just so you feel better?...please. And Dizz, don't ever make assumptions about what those of us with daughters would or would not let them do, you need to accept that there are differing opinions & not call parenting tolerances into question - that is not your place.

I think it's back azzward for guys to say they can now let their girls wear Ben's jersey with pride. If you don't like it then tough...

I never said Ben should be traded... but like I said before, if he was traded I wouldn't stop being a Steeler fan.

Some of you think criticizing Ben on or off the field is treason...

You guys need to get a grip and understand he didn't meet with Goodell because he has been a saint. Where was Tomlin, Rooney or any FO personnel during the press conference?

:Bow
As for the jersey thing, fine...whatever - if that makes you feel better then by all means. Both my kids - boy & girl - have been raised as Steeler fans & both have Ben's jersey & if they want to wear it then it's fine by me. And if you don't like it, then its your problem - see, it goes both ways.

Getting a grip is what a lot of us have saying too...that a lot of this is media driven & some of you are acting that for us to be alright with Ben is like supporting a criminal - which he isn't because he's been cleared...unlike Ray Lewis who plea-bargained down to a obstruction of justice charge or Leroy Hill who beat his girlfriend or Rae Carruth who had his girlfriend killed or Mark Chumura who actually did rape someone.

As for team support...they let him use the facility didn't they? And you can't make any assumptions because you really don't know if they chose not to be there or if they simply weren't available. In the end it doesn't matter, all that matters is what Ben & the team do from here on out. If the Rooneys have any sense, they'll go along with whatever punishment he's given & then throw all their effort into helping turn things around...anything less & they're not the owners they're portrayed as being.[/quote:3cxvgjwj]


No one said Ben is a criminal.. but the guy is not in the best light right now. I guess mu confusion comes from those who act like he is pure or home free because of the decision by the DA.

The guy is far from clean on this one and I will cheer for him on the field but I cannot vouch for his off field antics. Who knows if Ben did it or not.... there just wasn't enough evidence to move forward. Ben is very lucky and I hope he stays out of situations where he can be accused of this.

Looking at Kobe's case I never believed he raped the girl. She had another guys DNA in her and went back to work like nothing happened... but who do you blame if he is in another situation with a young drunk girl in a bathroom?

My point is.. I blame Ben regardless because he has the most to lose and the Steelers are not better without him.