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View Full Version : What purpose would a suspension serve?



StarSpangledSteeler
04-13-2010, 03:45 PM
Okay, let me ask you all this...

What is your 'purpose' in suspending him? (Not the reasons why he deserves a suspension, the purpose). What are you hoping the suspension will accomplish? To scare him into better behavior? That by sitting him on the bench during four football games he will start acting different socially?

The issue here is Ben's social interaction with women. I believe a rigid course of counseling and community service at women's abuse shelters will produce far more results in future behavior than suspension.

Again, we're not talking about a crime. He didn't break the law. He has been charged with nothing. He has been prosecuted for nothing. You're upset (and rightfully so) because he's acting like a slimeball. And a lot of you are reacting emotionally here with your punishments. "Yeah, suspend him. That'll teach him. And if that doesn't work, trade him!"

I think that is ineffective problem solving.

Steel Life
04-13-2010, 03:50 PM
Okay, let me ask you all this...

What is your 'purpose' in suspending him? (Not the reasons why he deserves a suspension, the purpose). What are you hoping the suspension will accomplish? To scare him into better behavior? That by sitting him on the bench during four football games he will start acting different socially?

The issue here is Ben's social interaction with women. I believe a rigid course of counseling and community service at women's abuse shelters will produce far more results in future behavior than suspension.

Again, we're not talking about a crime. He didn't break the law. He has been charged with nothing. He has been prosecuted for nothing. You're upset (and rightfully so) because he's acting like a slimeball. And a lot of you are reacting emotionally here with your punishments. "Yeah, suspend him. That'll teach him. And if that doesn't work, trade him!"

I think that is ineffective problem solving.
:Clap

snarky
04-13-2010, 03:51 PM
Just a comment: I don't think you will find many abuse shelters that would want him on their premises doing community service.

pfelix73
04-13-2010, 03:52 PM
True. And all this talk of suspension is ridiculous. I'm ready to see a lawsuit filed against the NFL when the commish suspends a player- cause it's coming.......
:tt1

pfelix73
04-13-2010, 03:53 PM
Sounds to me from listening to local Pittsburgh radio that the fans inside the city want him gone, and then everyone else in the world want him to stay. I don't get it.
:tt1

MaxAMillion
04-13-2010, 04:54 PM
Ben won't be the first player suspended without being found guilty of a crime. He had a chance to show that he was willing to conduct himself better after the earlier rape allegation. He had a chance to show that it was important to conduct himself in such a way that he would not embarrass the franchise and the Rooney's. Ben decided that it was more important to try and score with a drunk 20 year old in a bar rather than act with some dignity. You do realize that Ben wouldn't be facing any problems at all if he simply met a single woman and took her back to his home (preferably someone completely sober).

Let's pretend that the girl never claimed that Ben forced himself on her. Instead Ben has sex with the girl in the bar and someone films it while he is in the act. How do you think the Rooney's would feel? My guess is they wouldn't feel a whole lot better about it. At some point Ben has to realize that there is a certain way he must behave in public when getting paid 100 million dollars by the Steelers. He doesn't seem to be getting the message.

RussBII
04-13-2010, 04:55 PM
I'm so damn jaded and cynical about this now that I fear suspending him will just give him more time to hit the college bars...

ikestops85
04-13-2010, 05:13 PM
Ben won't be the first player suspended without being found guilty of a crime. He had a chance to show that he was willing to conduct himself better after the earlier rape allegation. He had a chance to show that it was important to conduct himself in such a way that he would not embarrass the franchise and the Rooney's. Ben decided that it was more important to try and score with a drunk 20 year old in a bar rather than act with some dignity. You do realize that Ben wouldn't be facing any problems at all if he simply met a single woman and took her back to his home (preferably someone completely sober).

Let's pretend that the girl never claimed that Ben forced himself on her. Instead Ben has sex with the girl in the bar and someone films it while he is in the act. How do you think the Rooney's would feel? My guess is they wouldn't feel a whole lot better about it. At some point Ben has to realize that there is a certain way he must behave in public when getting paid 100 million dollars by the Steelers. He doesn't seem to be getting the message.

I'm sorry but I think that is completely wrong. Ben in essence took McNutty back to his place (room) and it happened. It's not where he does it ... it's who he does it with. With Ben out there enjoying a bunch of one night stands the odds are he will come in contact with someone out to capitalize.

Unfortunately for rich, young, single guys they are a target. To help lessen the possibility they need to get to know the lady a little before the slap and tickle phase. The wam, bam, thank you maam approach doesn't allow them to try and filter out the crazies.

Maybe Ben could try something novel like ... uh ... going on a DATE!

snarky
04-13-2010, 05:20 PM
No immediate suspension from the league according to this:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... 314&spln=1 (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=1181&line=171314&spln=1)

Steel Life
04-13-2010, 06:38 PM
No immediate suspension from the league according to this:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... 314&spln=1 (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=1181&line=171314&spln=1)
"BURN HIM ANYWAY!!!"

papillon
04-13-2010, 07:15 PM
Okay, let me ask you all this...

What is your 'purpose' in suspending him? (Not the reasons why he deserves a suspension, the purpose). What are you hoping the suspension will accomplish? To scare him into better behavior? That by sitting him on the bench during four football games he will start acting different socially?

The issue here is Ben's social interaction with women. I believe a rigid course of counseling and community service at women's abuse shelters will produce far more results in future behavior than suspension.

Again, we're not talking about a crime. He didn't break the law. He has been charged with nothing. He has been prosecuted for nothing. You're upset (and rightfully so) because he's acting like a slimeball. And a lot of you are reacting emotionally here with your punishments. "Yeah, suspend him. That'll teach him. And if that doesn't work, trade him!"

I think that is ineffective problem solving.

The purpose is to have him be humbled a bit, decrease his bank account (2 games is about 1.5 million dollars) and to let the rest of the team that behavior detrimental to the team and the organization won't be tolerated by Ben or anyone else. Sometimes, a good a$$ kicking is what the doctor ordered.

Pappy

spyboots
04-13-2010, 07:33 PM
Ben has a morality clause in his contract (they all do) and could be suspended for his conduct. (I also read where the players union could file an appeal if he is.) A suspension would be without pay and add to his embarrassment.

BUT the worst sin against the organization, teammates, and fans is the predicament he put the team in. His not being able to play in a couple of games can really hurt the team. There's no excuse for it.

I think he needs counseling, yes.

Also, he is also stupid for all these UNPROTECTED 1-night stands; he could end up with an even greater problem. One of his problems is that he thinks he's indestructible, especially after the accident.

He said he learned a few things because of the accident; he needs to go back and rehash those lessons again.

feltdizz
04-13-2010, 08:49 PM
What purpose would a suspension serve?

It would serve as punishment for conduct detrimental to the NFL shield? Ben wants to play after concussions, surgeries and accidents... I'm pretty sure not playing would get his mind right about his off field actions..

maybe...

StarSpangledSteeler
04-14-2010, 01:54 AM
Okay, let me ask you all this...

What is your 'purpose' in suspending him? (Not the reasons why he deserves a suspension, the purpose). What are you hoping the suspension will accomplish? To scare him into better behavior? That by sitting him on the bench during four football games he will start acting different socially?

The issue here is Ben's social interaction with women. I believe a rigid course of counseling and community service at women's abuse shelters will produce far more results in future behavior than suspension.

Again, we're not talking about a crime. He didn't break the law. He has been charged with nothing. He has been prosecuted for nothing. You're upset (and rightfully so) because he's acting like a slimeball. And a lot of you are reacting emotionally here with your punishments. "Yeah, suspend him. That'll teach him. And if that doesn't work, trade him!"

I think that is ineffective problem solving.

The purpose is to have him be humbled a bit, decrease his bank account (2 games is about 1.5 million dollars) and to let the rest of the team that behavior detrimental to the team and the organization won't be tolerated by Ben or anyone else. Sometimes, a good a$$ kicking is what the doctor ordered.

Pappy

Thank you for actually answering the question.

Let's review what we know about Ben. He is a fierce competitor, stubborn, hard headed, extremely confident and capable. That's part of what makes him great. Also what gets him into trouble. He was warned by many people not to ride a motorcycle especially without a helmet. He chose not to. Then he physically got his ass beaten by an oncoming car, almost died, had major reconstructive facial surgery, and afterward they asked him if his behavior would change. His response... No. He would still ride the motorcycle and probably without a helmet. Over the last four years he has gotten sacked more than almost any other QB. Coaches repeatedly try to get him to throw to his checkdowns and/or throw the ball away. He chose not to. Not only did he get his ass beaten by opposing DL's and LB's, he got himself injured on a number of occasions which caused him to miss games (sit on the bench). His response... He keeps doing the same thing. Scrambling around trying to go for the big play.

My point is, a suspension is not going to humble him. Missing games is not going to change his behavior. Getting fined is not going to change his behavior. If you want to change Ben's behavior your best chance is through rigid counseling which will allow him to examine and change his own way of thinking. Counseling will help him set his own goals as to specifically where he goes and doesn't go on his free time. He will report each week explaining to his counsellors (and himself) what decisions he made and why he made them. This helps him not only become more accountable but helps him develop new habits. If he has issues with substance abuse it will allow him get support which is crucial for alcoholics and addicts. If he has deeper issues with aggressive physical behavior toward women it will allow him to at least verbalize it and deal with it because i guarantee you he's not talking to people about it now.

Anyone who's a parent knows that many times you have to discipline your different children through different means. With some kids, spanking doesn't work. With others it does. With some kids, grounding doesn't work. With others it does. I believe the same principle applies to Ben. I agree he has to be disciplined, but let's use a method that will actually change his behavior.

StarSpangledSteeler
04-14-2010, 02:19 AM
Ben has a morality clause in his contract (they all do) and could be suspended for his conduct. (I also read where the players union could file an appeal if he is.) A suspension would be without pay and add to his embarrassment.

BUT the worst sin against the organization, teammates, and fans is the predicament he put the team in. His not being able to play in a couple of games can really hurt the team. There's no excuse for it.

I think he needs counseling, yes.

Also, he is also stupid for all these UNPROTECTED 1-night stands; he could end up with an even greater problem. One of his problems is that he thinks he's indestructible, especially after the accident.

He said he learned a few things because of the accident; he needs to go back and rehash those lessons again.

I think the key is the word 'learn'. How does he 'learn' not to put himself in these situations. Sitting on the bench does not teach him how to change his habits, it just tells him people are pissed off at him. You can suspend him for a game, a year, or even permanently, he's not going to learn that way. I think counseling provides the best solution.

SteelAbility
04-14-2010, 08:19 AM
Okay, let me ask you all this...

What is your 'purpose' in suspending him? (Not the reasons why he deserves a suspension, the purpose). What are you hoping the suspension will accomplish? To scare him into better behavior? That by sitting him on the bench during four football games he will start acting different socially?

The issue here is Ben's social interaction with women. I believe a rigid course of counseling and community service at women's abuse shelters will produce far more results in future behavior than suspension.

Again, we're not talking about a crime. He didn't break the law. He has been charged with nothing. He has been prosecuted for nothing. You're upset (and rightfully so) because he's acting like a slimeball. And a lot of you are reacting emotionally here with your punishments. "Yeah, suspend him. That'll teach him. And if that doesn't work, trade him!"

I think that is ineffective problem solving.

The purpose is to have him be humbled a bit, decrease his bank account (2 games is about 1.5 million dollars) and to let the rest of the team that behavior detrimental to the team and the organization won't be tolerated by Ben or anyone else. Sometimes, a good a$$ kicking is what the doctor ordered.

Pappy

Thank you for actually answering the question.

Let's review what we know about Ben. He is a fierce competitor, stubborn, hard headed, extremely confident and capable. That's part of what makes him great. Also what gets him into trouble. He was warned by many people not to ride a motorcycle especially without a helmet. He chose not to. Then he physically got his bad word beaten by an oncoming car, almost died, had major reconstructive facial surgery, and afterward they asked him if his behavior would change. His response... No. He would still ride the motorcycle and probably without a helmet. Over the last four years he has gotten sacked more than almost any other QB. Coaches repeatedly try to get him to throw to his checkdowns and/or throw the ball away. He chose not to. Not only did he get his bad word beaten by opposing DL's and LB's, he got himself injured on a number of occasions which caused him to miss games (sit on the bench). His response... He keeps doing the same thing. Scrambling around trying to go for the big play.

My point is, a suspension is not going to humble him. Missing games is not going to change his behavior. Getting fined is not going to change his behavior. If you want to change Ben's behavior your best chance is through rigid counseling which will allow him to examine and change his own way of thinking. Counseling will help him set his own goals as to specifically where he goes and doesn't go on his free time. He will report each week explaining to his counsellors (and himself) what decisions he made and why he made them. This helps him not only become more accountable but helps him develop new habits. If he has issues with substance abuse it will allow him get support which is crucial for alcoholics and addicts. If he has deeper issues with aggressive physical behavior toward women it will allow him to at least verbalize it and deal with it because i guarantee you he's not talking to people about it now.

Anyone who's a parent knows that many times you have to discipline your different children through different means. With some kids, spanking doesn't work. With others it does. With some kids, grounding doesn't work. With others it does. I believe the same principle applies to Ben. I agree he has to be disciplined, but let's use a method that will actually change his behavior.

Good thoughts. Not sure I totally agree. I do know that connecting actions with consequences is one of the major contributors to changed behavior. I do like the counselling idea. But perhaps it has been suggested and rejected. I hear Ben wasn't very fond of Bradshaw's counsel. ;)

Absolutely agreed. The problem here is that the league doesn't know the players the way parents know their kids. Perhaps the league should be implementing a "get to know your own superstars" program. :)

papillon
04-14-2010, 09:29 AM
Okay, let me ask you all this...

What is your 'purpose' in suspending him? (Not the reasons why he deserves a suspension, the purpose). What are you hoping the suspension will accomplish? To scare him into better behavior? That by sitting him on the bench during four football games he will start acting different socially?

The issue here is Ben's social interaction with women. I believe a rigid course of counseling and community service at women's abuse shelters will produce far more results in future behavior than suspension.

Again, we're not talking about a crime. He didn't break the law. He has been charged with nothing. He has been prosecuted for nothing. You're upset (and rightfully so) because he's acting like a slimeball. And a lot of you are reacting emotionally here with your punishments. "Yeah, suspend him. That'll teach him. And if that doesn't work, trade him!"

I think that is ineffective problem solving.

The purpose is to have him be humbled a bit, decrease his bank account (2 games is about 1.5 million dollars) and to let the rest of the team that behavior detrimental to the team and the organization won't be tolerated by Ben or anyone else. Sometimes, a good a$$ kicking is what the doctor ordered.

Pappy

Thank you for actually answering the question.

Let's review what we know about Ben. He is a fierce competitor, stubborn, hard headed, extremely confident and capable. That's part of what makes him great. Also what gets him into trouble. He was warned by many people not to ride a motorcycle especially without a helmet. He chose not to. Then he physically got his bad word beaten by an oncoming car, almost died, had major reconstructive facial surgery, and afterward they asked him if his behavior would change. His response... No. He would still ride the motorcycle and probably without a helmet. Over the last four years he has gotten sacked more than almost any other QB. Coaches repeatedly try to get him to throw to his checkdowns and/or throw the ball away. He chose not to. Not only did he get his bad word beaten by opposing DL's and LB's, he got himself injured on a number of occasions which caused him to miss games (sit on the bench). His response... He keeps doing the same thing. Scrambling around trying to go for the big play.

My point is, a suspension is not going to humble him. Missing games is not going to change his behavior. Getting fined is not going to change his behavior. If you want to change Ben's behavior your best chance is through rigid counseling which will allow him to examine and change his own way of thinking. Counseling will help him set his own goals as to specifically where he goes and doesn't go on his free time. He will report each week explaining to his counsellors (and himself) what decisions he made and why he made them. This helps him not only become more accountable but helps him develop new habits. If he has issues with substance abuse it will allow him get support which is crucial for alcoholics and addicts. If he has deeper issues with aggressive physical behavior toward women it will allow him to at least verbalize it and deal with it because i guarantee you he's not talking to people about it now.

Anyone who's a parent knows that many times you have to discipline your different children through different means. With some kids, spanking doesn't work. With others it does. With some kids, grounding doesn't work. With others it does. I believe the same principle applies to Ben. I agree he has to be disciplined, but let's use a method that will actually change his behavior.

I agree and disagree to a certain extent. I agree that Ben may too big of a meathead for any of this to actually sink in for him. If that's the case Steeler fans should prepare for life without Ben, the organization will not tolerate another similar indiscretion by Ben and I'm not certain he's out of the woods with this one.

In the past after his mistakes the organization never (as far as we know) sat Ben down and told him you need to straighten up. He was simply given advice that he ignored. I am certain that following this incident there was a more stern warning and specific consequences will be laid out for Ben.

There will be a certain amount of embarrassment with his team mates and a certain amount of acrimony from some of his team mates who feel he may have sabotaged their efforts to win football games. Ben stands to lose a substantial amount of income from this incident as well. This is different than in the past.

If Ben is too obtuse to understand the severity of his actions then I would thank him for his time and effort and give him a new start in another NFL town. This should be his last chance with the Steeler organization, regardless of his talent.

Just my opinion, but in answering your question about a suspension, he deserves it, the Steelers need it and his team mates will see it. He really puts his team mates in a bad position being suspended, because, he can not participate in any team activities while suspended; he has to stay away. There will be those on the team not so eager to welcome back the franchise quarterback who has potentially sabotaged their season. I hope James Harrison is one of them.

Pappy

ikestops85
04-14-2010, 05:25 PM
Okay, let me ask you all this...

What is your 'purpose' in suspending him? (Not the reasons why he deserves a suspension, the purpose). What are you hoping the suspension will accomplish? To scare him into better behavior? That by sitting him on the bench during four football games he will start acting different socially?

The issue here is Ben's social interaction with women. I believe a rigid course of counseling and community service at women's abuse shelters will produce far more results in future behavior than suspension.

Again, we're not talking about a crime. He didn't break the law. He has been charged with nothing. He has been prosecuted for nothing. You're upset (and rightfully so) because he's acting like a slimeball. And a lot of you are reacting emotionally here with your punishments. "Yeah, suspend him. That'll teach him. And if that doesn't work, trade him!"

I think that is ineffective problem solving.

The purpose is to have him be humbled a bit, decrease his bank account (2 games is about 1.5 million dollars) and to let the rest of the team that behavior detrimental to the team and the organization won't be tolerated by Ben or anyone else. Sometimes, a good a$$ kicking is what the doctor ordered.

Pappy

Thank you for actually answering the question.

Let's review what we know about Ben. He is a fierce competitor, stubborn, hard headed, extremely confident and capable. That's part of what makes him great. Also what gets him into trouble. He was warned by many people not to ride a motorcycle especially without a helmet. He chose not to. Then he physically got his bad word beaten by an oncoming car, almost died, had major reconstructive facial surgery, and afterward they asked him if his behavior would change. His response... No. He would still ride the motorcycle and probably without a helmet. Over the last four years he has gotten sacked more than almost any other QB. Coaches repeatedly try to get him to throw to his checkdowns and/or throw the ball away. He chose not to. Not only did he get his bad word beaten by opposing DL's and LB's, he got himself injured on a number of occasions which caused him to miss games (sit on the bench). His response... He keeps doing the same thing. Scrambling around trying to go for the big play.

My point is, a suspension is not going to humble him. Missing games is not going to change his behavior. Getting fined is not going to change his behavior. If you want to change Ben's behavior your best chance is through rigid counseling which will allow him to examine and change his own way of thinking. Counseling will help him set his own goals as to specifically where he goes and doesn't go on his free time. He will report each week explaining to his counsellors (and himself) what decisions he made and why he made them. This helps him not only become more accountable but helps him develop new habits. If he has issues with substance abuse it will allow him get support which is crucial for alcoholics and addicts. If he has deeper issues with aggressive physical behavior toward women it will allow him to at least verbalize it and deal with it because i guarantee you he's not talking to people about it now.

Anyone who's a parent knows that many times you have to discipline your different children through different means. With some kids, spanking doesn't work. With others it does. With some kids, grounding doesn't work. With others it does. I believe the same principle applies to Ben. I agree he has to be disciplined, but let's use a method that will actually change his behavior.

I agree and disagree to a certain extent. I agree that Ben may too big of a meathead for any of this to actually sink in for him. If that's the case Steeler fans should prepare for life without Ben, the organization will not tolerate another similar indiscretion by Ben and I'm not certain he's out of the woods with this one.

In the past after his mistakes the organization never (as far as we know) sat Ben down and told him you need to straighten up. He was simply given advice that he ignored. I am certain that following this incident there was a more stern warning and specific consequences will be laid out for Ben.

There will be a certain amount of embarrassment with his team mates and a certain amount of acrimony from some of his team mates who feel he may have sabotaged their efforts to win football games. Ben stands to lose a substantial amount of income from this incident as well. This is different than in the past.

If Ben is too obtuse to understand the severity of his actions then I would thank him for his time and effort and give him a new start in another NFL town. This should be his last chance with the Steeler organization, regardless of his talent.

Just my opinion, but in answering your question about a suspension, he deserves it, the Steelers need it and his team mates will see it. He really puts his team mates in a bad position being suspended, because, he can not participate in any team activities while suspended; he has to stay away. There will be those on the team not so eager to welcome back the franchise quarterback who has potentially sabotaged their season. I hope James Harrison is one of them.

Pappy

Is this the same James Harrison whom smacked around the mother of his child?? That would be awfully hypocritical don't you think?