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flippy
04-13-2010, 08:27 AM
I don't get this idea that Ben must be suspended????

What did he do?

The police aren't pursuing it, nor should the NFL.

What did he do that was so detrimental?

No one knows for sure.

But yet everyone wants to pass judgement since Ben was found guilty according to TMZ and the court of public opinion.

One thing is for sure, Pittsburghers will never embrace their starting QB - whoever he may be.

It's odd.

proudpittsburgher
04-13-2010, 08:44 AM
Flippy, my wife and I had this discussion last night, and she sided with you. I lean the other way.

Many in Steelers Nation are proud of our Steelers for obvious reasons, the sixth Lombardi, proud tradition, etc. For me, that is certainly icing on the cake, but I am also proud of how the Rooneys have run their ship. While it is impossible to fill a roster with choirboys, you can still do what you can to deal with the troublemakers in a timely fashion to show that there is a difference between playing for teams like the Bengals or Cowboys and playing for the Steelers or Packers or Patriots*. There is a standard there which allows for a certain trust from the fans.

Is it owed to us? No, it's not. We can choose to tune in every Sunday, or spend it at the mall with the family. It's our choice. But regardless of if Ben is guilty or innocent of sexual assault, his repeated actions have damaged that reputation, and if the Rooneys want to maintain that image, they have to act swiftly.

There is no double standard. To me, Santonio was traded not because he screwed up. Not even because he screwed up multiple times, but because he seemed indignant about it. He spoke out not to apologize to the team/teammates/fans, etc, but he continued down this path on twitter, thumbing his nose at those who cheer for him or sign his paychecks. Ben at least made a public statement apologizing to the team, fans, etc.

Honestly, it didn't seem heartfelt to me, but at least he did it, and he has pretty much kept quiet since the incident. Santonio took a different rout and was traded. Because of how Ben (and guys like Jeff Reed and James Harrison) reacted to their troubles, they shouldn't be traded, rather disciplined. They have to be sent a message, or else they will continue to so what they do, and in doing so, embarrass the organization.

We most certainly do hold our players to a higher standard than teams like the Bengals, and I, for one, and happy that we do.

JTP53609
04-13-2010, 08:49 AM
i said it on another page, but ben is looking uglier and uglier every time we see him, is he trying to get into the wwf with that hairstyle???
I am glad we traded santonio, I am not into the dallas cowboy like offseason..

Oviedo
04-13-2010, 08:51 AM
He should be suspended because he has put a $102M investment at risk with a trend of making bad decisions/being in the wrong place that could have very negative consequences for this franchise if he continues to make them.

Everything that has come back to bite Ben has been preventable by Ben but he is apparently not making or is incapable of making the right decisions. He needs to get a message that there are consequences to living on the edge.

Sugar
04-13-2010, 08:55 AM
As I have said on multiple threads, if the Steelers or the NFL try to discipline Ben in any way then he should fight it tooth and nail with the union and possibly in the courts.

Just because some drunk sorority girl accuses somebody of something shouldn't mean that he should be punished. Even IF you think that he did something by "putting himself in position" or other such nonsense, his reputation is permanently tarnished and he will NEVER get it back.

BURGH86STEEL
04-13-2010, 08:56 AM
Because he put himself in a position to be accused. He brought negative attention to himself, the Steelers, and the NFL. The idea of him taking a drunk woman he did not know into a bathroom is disturbing to many people. People will draw other negative conclusions from such actions. What else is he capable of? I am sure he was warned by the organization and league about putting himself in those situations. Not being proved guilty does not mean he was totally innocent of any wrong doing.

In any event, it's the ideas and opinions that people form from those actions. I find it hard to understand why people can't understand that concept?

Sugar
04-13-2010, 09:00 AM
Because he put himself in a position to be accused. He brought negative attention to himself, the Steelers, and the NFL. The idea of him taking a drunk woman he did not know into a bathroom is disturbing to many people. People will draw other negative conclusions from such actions. What else is he capable of? I am sure he was warned by the organization and league about putting himself in those situations. Not being proved guilty does not mean he was totally innocent of any wrong doing.

In any event, it's the ideas and opinions that people form from those actions. I find it hard to understand why people can't understand that concept?

How do you know that he took the girl to the bathroom? He didn't say that. The only reason the DA knew that is because the drunk sorority girl told him.

This is a man who has been extremely charitable and has been a model teammate, why do we suddenly assume that he's some kind of monster based on the a drunk sorority chick?

flippy
04-13-2010, 09:02 AM
So Ben can't go out and live life?

He wasn't charged for anything.

What did he do?

If he's suspended, the whole league should be suspended.

Willie Colon was with him that night. If Ben gets suspended, should Willie get suspended too?

flippy
04-13-2010, 09:04 AM
What exact decision was the bad decision that Ben made? And what makes that exact decision suspendable?

Sugar
04-13-2010, 09:06 AM
What exact decision was the bad decision that Ben made? And what makes that exact decision suspendable?

B-I-N-G-O!

proudpittsburgher
04-13-2010, 09:07 AM
Because he put himself in a position to be accused. He brought negative attention to himself, the Steelers, and the NFL. The idea of him taking a drunk woman he did not know into a bathroom is disturbing to many people. People will draw other negative conclusions from such actions. What else is he capable of? I am sure he was warned by the organization and league about putting himself in those situations. Not being proved guilty does not mean he was totally innocent of any wrong doing.

In any event, it's the ideas and opinions that people form from those actions. I find it hard to understand why people can't understand that concept?

How do you know that he took the girl to the bathroom? He didn't say that. The only reason the DA knew that is because the drunk sorority girl told him.

This is a man who has been extremely charitable and has been a model teammate, why do we suddenly assume that he's some kind of monster based on the a drunk sorority chick?

I don't think most of us feel like he is a monster, but that persona could certainly, and has been, portraid of him because of his repeated actions. Partying is one thing, but once you get accused of rape not once but twice within a two-year period, people who don't know how good of a teammate he is, and don't know about the charities, will think that of him.
So, while it is unfair to ask him not to live whatever life he chooses to lead, we live in a society where you are responsible for your actions. So when you are charged with rape in 08, as bogus as it turned out to be, may you should think twice about having a woman whom you don't know pleasure you sexually in a public bathroom when you are both drunk. Maybe Ben should have stopped to think, "Hmm, maybe this isn't a good idea."

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-13-2010, 09:10 AM
No suspension from the Commish and the NFL.
3 games by the Rooney's. Yes, it hurts the team. 3 games on the sideline in street clothes. Knock him all the way down and make him get up. There will be an evaluation process going own in the organization on Ben. Make him start from scratch to earn the respect of his teammates, coaches, and organization. He needs to show maturity now...He doesn't have another chance. Make him take responsibilty for his actions. Ben let down his teammates and his punishment will impact them. He needs to be among them on gameday while he serves his suspension.

Djfan
04-13-2010, 09:17 AM
It bugs me that the voice of a young girl who was "very" drunk, breaking the law to get that way, and had a fake ID confescated shortly before this issue, is the measure of Ben's choices.

That being said, he needs to handle his girly issues with a bit mroe decorum. Is this finable? Not in my opinion, unless the front office made it perfectly clear that he would get slapped with a fine or suspension if anything like this happened again.

I hope that he makes a charitable contribution to some whinny girl organization, and gets a stern warning.

flippy
04-13-2010, 09:19 AM
i said it on another page, but ben is looking uglier and uglier every time we see him, is he trying to get into the wwf with that hairstyle???
I am glad we traded santonio, I am not into the dallas cowboy like offseason..

he did look creepy with the mullet....

SteelAbility
04-13-2010, 09:19 AM
How many times do we have to say it? He put himself and consequently the organization THAT IS TIED TO HIM BY A $102M CONTRACT ... AT RISK. The point here is not what can be proved in a court of law by the standards of criminal burden-of-proof. The point is that his thoughtlessness in seeking tail has rippled into other people's lives (whether justly or unjustly through the accusations of a young girl). AT RISK. That's the point. And for what? Ok, so people have scams and falsely accuse. Well, geez, don't make it so $&%*#*!@#$Y!@*%@!#-ing easy for that happen for crying out loud. Some people just like to falsely accuse. Same response.

In light of a pending civil case alleging sexual misbehavior, the at-risk arguments get even stronger.

No matter how you slice it you have a precedent here. No fine, no punishment, no-nothing and you have a precedent. At-risk behavior will be tolerated. Don't we hand out speeding tickets even thought the speeder never actually hurt anyone? Just the fact that he/she was speeding is considered at-risk behavior and is punished. The principle is the same.

Fine, suspend, whatever. Precedent. There is enough on the table here to warrant sending a message.

Oviedo
04-13-2010, 09:20 AM
Ben gets suspended because when you are part of the NFL you accept certain rules and obligations that are beyond what a typical perosn does. That comes with being given millions of dollars to play a game.

This is no different than being in the military where you also accept and are held to standards completely different than the typical citizen. You understand that going in.

If Ben doesn't believe that then he lacks more common sense than many of us believe.

SteelAbility
04-13-2010, 09:26 AM
Ben gets suspended because when you are part of the NFL you accept certain rules and obligations that are beyond what a typical perosn does. That comes with being given millions of dollars to play a game.

This is no different than being in the military where you also accept and are held to standards completely different than the typical citizen. You understand that going in.

If Ben doesn't believe that then he lacks more common sense than many of us believe.

Very well stated.

flippy
04-13-2010, 09:30 AM
I still don't get what Ben can and can't do.

Beer - no
Sex - no
Partying - no
Anything other than practicing, playing, studying, or sleeping - no


Who cares how much money he makes? It's irrelevant.

What's the standard and what did he do wrong?

Are people holding him to an impossible standard? If the media says he shouldn't be in a certain circumstance, does that make it so?

I'm not trying to be dense. I just don't get it.

BURGH86STEEL
04-13-2010, 09:30 AM
Because he put himself in a position to be accused. He brought negative attention to himself, the Steelers, and the NFL. The idea of him taking a drunk woman he did not know into a bathroom is disturbing to many people. People will draw other negative conclusions from such actions. What else is he capable of? I am sure he was warned by the organization and league about putting himself in those situations. Not being proved guilty does not mean he was totally innocent of any wrong doing.

In any event, it's the ideas and opinions that people form from those actions. I find it hard to understand why people can't understand that concept?

How do you know that he took the girl to the bathroom? He didn't say that. The only reason the DA knew that is because the drunk sorority girl told him.

This is a man who has been extremely charitable and has been a model teammate, why do we suddenly assume that he's some kind of monster based on the a drunk sorority chick?

Ok Sugar, they were in the bathroom together. So something happened that night. There are negative conclusions that people draw from those actions. That is why the Steelers, fans, and the NFL are concerned. What happens if he puts himself in a situation to be accused? I don't believe he will be a Steeler if it happens again. The organization will out right release him or trade him. That is the path that he is headed down if he does not change.

The bottom line is that Ben could had avoided all of this by making a better decision. You know, by not going into a bathroom with a drunk woman he did not know from a can of paint. Maybe you are ok with Ben's actions. There are many people that are disturbed by his actions.

papillon
04-13-2010, 09:34 AM
I don't get this idea that Ben must be suspended????

What did he do?

Right now he's an embarrassment both in appearance and actions. He evidently doesn't understand that looking disheveled to present a poorly crafted statement doesn't aid his ability to put this behind him.

The police aren't pursuing it, nor should the NFL.

The NFL has an image and a brand that is worth billions of dollars and they will protect that revenue for the teams and this will supersede the players and their personal indiscretions. It may seem unfair, however, the NFL is a socialist society existing within a Republic and in a Socialist society those that make the rules have final say on matters.

What did he do that was so detrimental?

Bad publicity for the NFL, the Steelers, the city of Pittsburgh and his family.

No one knows for sure.

But yet everyone wants to pass judgment since Ben was found guilty according to TMZ and the court of public opinion.

Ben is only guilty of poor decision making and in this instance it is not leading to a trial and potential incarceration. He's fortunate.

One thing is for sure, Pittsburghers will never embrace their starting QB - whoever he may be.

Pittsburgh has supported Ben after the motorcycle accident and last year's McNulty case, this third gaffe will take some time to repair. He will need to behave and choose his words carefully and he will be remembered in high regard. If he continues to act like a rube and egotistical athlete he will not, it's quite simple for him really.

It's odd.
It's even :P


Pappy

proudpittsburgher
04-13-2010, 09:36 AM
I still don't get what Ben can and can't do.

Beer - no
Sex - no
Partying - no
Anything other than practicing, playing, studying, or sleeping - no


Who cares how much money he makes? It's irrelevant.

What's the standard and what did he do wrong?

Are people holding him to an impossible standard? If the media says he shouldn't be in a certain circumstance, does that make it so?

I'm not trying to be dense. I just don't get it.

Flippy, it's not an impossible standard. Fact is, Ben was accused of Rape in 2008. It was bogus and we all know that, but every NFL players isn't accused of rape everyday, so there is a negative perspective on it. Fast forward to 2010. Ben is partying, which would not have made news in an of itself. Girl follows him into the bathroom. With all fo the crap Ben has been accused of, don't you think he should stop and think, "hmm, maybe this isn't such a good idea."?

Slapstick
04-13-2010, 09:38 AM
Santonio was suspended by the NFL because he violated the substance abuse policy.

What policy did Ben violate?

This is a link to the NFL's personal conduct policy, via ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2798214

Ben has not been charged with criminal activity and has not condoned violent or criminal activity, therefore, he has not violated the NFL's personal conduct policy.

If the Steelers attempt to suspend Ben for "conduct detrimental to the team", a very nebulous charge, the Players Union can (and will) challenge such a ruling by the franchise...


Article VIII, Section 3 explains that in regard to club discipline, “the NFLPA expressly reserves the right to challenge the imposition of such discipline for conduct detrimental to the club...”

It's too open ended a charge...I think that the Steelers would have a difficult time coming to court with "Ben embarrassed us."

I don't know if he'll be fined or suspended...but, he's certainly not smart...

Leper Friend
04-13-2010, 09:40 AM
It bugs me that the voice of a young girl who was "very" drunk, breaking the law to get that way, and had a fake ID confescated shortly before this issue, is the measure of Ben's choices.

I was thinking the same thing.

All the fake, political correct morals of the media bug me also. We're all adults. We know what this girl had in mind that night.Whatever happened in the bathroom will always be speculation at this point but let's stop pretending this girl was an innocent little angel.

It also bugs me that many people in the media are still refering to this girl as "the victim" and not "the accuser".

JAR
04-13-2010, 09:41 AM
Was Bettis suspended for his false sexual assault accusations?

Maybe Brady should have been suspended for dumping his knocked up girlfriend? I mean what kind of morals are those?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-13-2010, 09:44 AM
Santonio was suspended by the NFL because he violated the substance abuse policy.

What policy did Ben violate?

This is a link to the NFL's personal conduct policy, via ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2798214

Ben has not been charged with criminal activity and has not condoned violent or criminal activity, therefore, he has not violated the NFL's personal conduct policy.

If the Steelers attempt to suspend Ben for "conduct detrimental to the team", a very nebulous charge, the Players Union can (and will) challenge such a ruling by the franchise...


Article VIII, Section 3 explains that in regard to club discipline, “the NFLPA expressly reserves the right to challenge the imposition of such discipline for conduct detrimental to the club...”

It's too open ended a charge...I think that the Steelers would have a difficult time coming to court with "Ben embarrassed us."

I don't know if he'll be fined or suspended...but, he's certainly not smart...
I don't believe the Players Union can interject without a compliant filed by a player. I think it would be "Safe to Say"....Ben won't file a complaint. I might be going out on a limb with that statement...But I will have to take my chance that Ben doesn't want to make waves. The minute I learn of the complaint...He's on the trading block.

JAR
04-13-2010, 09:44 AM
It bugs me that the voice of a young girl who was "very" drunk, breaking the law to get that way, and had a fake ID confescated shortly before this issue, is the measure of Ben's choices.

I was thinking the same thing.

All the fake, political correct morals of the media bug me also. We're all adults. We know what this girl had in mind that night.Whatever happened in the bathroom will always be speculation at this point but let's stop pretending this girl was an innocent little angel.

It also bugs me that many people in the media are still refering to this girl as "the victim" and not "the accuser".

She was so distraught after the incident that she dropped out of school and ran home to mom and dad. Yet a couple of days AFTER Ben hires the PI, she decides to write a letter to the DA asking him not to pursue the issue. OK, I can see why people are still siding with the girl. :roll:

BURGH86STEEL
04-13-2010, 09:44 AM
I still don't get what Ben can and can't do.

Beer - no
Sex - no
Partying - no
Anything other than practicing, playing, studying, or sleeping - no


Who cares how much money he makes? It's irrelevant.

What's the standard and what did he do wrong?

Are people holding him to an impossible standard? If the media says he shouldn't be in a certain circumstance, does that make it so?

I'm not trying to be dense. I just don't get it.

At this point, Ben should be very selective about the women he chooses to keep in his company. Ben should stay away from alcohol if it causes Ben to make poor decisions. Maybe he can limit his alcohol consumption?

Ben just has to make better decisions in regards to the places he goes and the people he lets into his life. Players are warned about this from day one at the rookie symposium. Their lives change forever once they get into the league. I am sure the organization reinforced the issue after the first accusation.

The money is relevant in Ben's situation. There are many people in the world that will try to take advantage of the fact that he is a millionaire. That a lone should make him more cautious. It has the feel that he goes around town like he is a college player. He is a 28 year old man that should use better judgement.

No one is holding Ben to an impossible standard. I suppose they hold him to the standards to not put ones self in a position to be accused of sexual assault twice. Maybe the standards of other NFL players that don't get into trouble. Ben is not the average athlete. He is one of the faces of the Steelers franchise.

flippy
04-13-2010, 09:45 AM
Was Bettis suspended for his false sexual assault accusations?

Maybe Brady should have been suspended for dumping his knocked up girlfriend? I mean what kind of morals are those?

I'm sure we could keep going with these....

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-13-2010, 09:47 AM
What exact decision was the bad decision that Ben made? And what makes that exact decision suspendable?

B-I-N-G-O!

The bad decision was hanging out in a college bar. There have to be better places for a 28 year old guy with a boatload of money and fame to go that brings less risk of incident. What makes it suspendable? Nothing! Whats next? Should we have suspended Porter for getting shot in the ass?

papillon
04-13-2010, 09:49 AM
I still don't get what Ben can and can't do.

Beer - no
Sex - no
Partying - no
Anything other than practicing, playing, studying, or sleeping - no

This has nothing to do with what he can and can't do. He can do everything you have listed. What he can't do is embarrass his employer and the business in which his employer participates. If he wants to drink beer and get sloppy drunk, I suggest he do it in the confines of his home with his friends; If he wants to have sex I suggest eliminating public places; If he wants to party in public I suggest he select a more suitable venue for a man of his financial status or be very careful what he says and does while in public. It's a small price to pay for the financial reward he receives.

Who cares how much money he makes? It's irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant to the Steeler Organization and surely you see this.

What's the standard and what did he do wrong?

His standards right now are whatever the Steelers and NFL sya the standards are, you may not like and he may not like it, but it's his reality until he retires.

Are people holding him to an impossible standard? If the media says he shouldn't be in a certain circumstance, does that make it so?

Yea, he's being held to an impossible standard, don't hook up in a bathroom the size of an elevator with a girl you met 3 hours prior. I mean how could he possibly live up to that standard. Now I understand why he did it.

I'm not trying to be dense. I just don't get it.

To help "get it" you have to be able to separate the legal issues as a private citizen from his responsibilities as a Steeler and NFL football player. These two entities have a different perspective of what is acceptable and what isn't.


Pappy

flippy
04-13-2010, 09:51 AM
It's odd.
It's even :P

Pappy

Nice

flippy
04-13-2010, 09:53 AM
What exact decision was the bad decision that Ben made? And what makes that exact decision suspendable?

B-I-N-G-O!

The bad decision was hanging out in a college bar. There have to be better places for a 28 year old guy with a boatload of money and fame to go that brings less risk of incident. What makes it suspendable? Nothing! Whats next? Should we have suspended Porter for getting shot in the bad word?

Tiger got in trouble in those places.

Sugar
04-13-2010, 09:55 AM
What exact decision was the bad decision that Ben made? And what makes that exact decision suspendable?

B-I-N-G-O!

The bad decision was hanging out in a college bar. There have to be better places for a 28 year old guy with a boatload of money and fame to go that brings less risk of incident. What makes it suspendable? Nothing! Whats next? Should we have suspended Porter for getting shot in the bad word?

Hanging out in a college bar is a bad decision? Whatever.

flippy
04-13-2010, 09:55 AM
What exact decision was the bad decision that Ben made? And what makes that exact decision suspendable?

B-I-N-G-O!

The bad decision was hanging out in a college bar. There have to be better places for a 28 year old guy with a boatload of money and fame to go that brings less risk of incident. What makes it suspendable? Nothing! Whats next? Should we have suspended Porter for getting shot in the bad word?

Tiger got in trouble in those places.

Oh, and WIllie Colon was there too. Guess his suspension should be coming right after Ben's.

Seriously, James Harrison beat a woman and didn't get suspended.

Oviedo
04-13-2010, 09:59 AM
I still don't get what Ben can and can't do.

Beer - no
Sex - no
Partying - no
Anything other than practicing, playing, studying, or sleeping - no


Who cares how much money he makes? It's irrelevant.

What's the standard and what did he do wrong?

Are people holding him to an impossible standard? If the media says he shouldn't be in a certain circumstance, does that make it so?

I'm not trying to be dense. I just don't get it.

There are hundreds of other players in the NFL who haven't been accused of sexual misconduct in the past 12 months. Why don't we start there?

If you think Ben isn't doing something wrong and he is just a poor unfortunate victim then you are naive.

Avoiding physical contact, especially of a sexual nature, with someone who you have known for less than 2 hours should set off the common sense alert. I think it probably does with the vast majority of society. Obviously it doesn't with Ben.

papillon
04-13-2010, 10:00 AM
It bugs me that the voice of a young girl who was "very" drunk, breaking the law to get that way, and had a fake ID confescated shortly before this issue, is the measure of Ben's choices.

I was thinking the same thing.

All the fake, political correct morals of the media bug me also. We're all adults. We know what this girl had in mind that night.Whatever happened in the bathroom will always be speculation at this point but let's stop pretending this girl was an innocent little angel.

It also bugs me that many people in the media are still refering to this girl as "the victim" and not "the accuser".

She was so distraught after the incident that she dropped out of school and ran home to mom and dad. Yet a couple of days AFTER Ben hires the PI, she decides to write a letter to the DA asking him not to pursue the issue. OK, I can see why people are still siding with the girl. :roll:

What the girl did or didn't do after the incident is irrelevant. She needs to make better decisions as well. Fortunately for her nothing that damaging really happened, this time. But putting herself in the position of being fall down drunk and alone in a rest room about to have sex is a behavior she may want to reconsider.

People are going to be trying to separate Ben from his millions the rest of his life; I suggest he begin to develop a little more forethought about what he does and who he does it with.

Pappy

papillon
04-13-2010, 10:04 AM
What exact decision was the bad decision that Ben made? And what makes that exact decision suspendable?

B-I-N-G-O!

The bad decision was hanging out in a college bar. There have to be better places for a 28 year old guy with a boatload of money and fame to go that brings less risk of incident. What makes it suspendable? Nothing! Whats next? Should we have suspended Porter for getting shot in the bad word?

Tiger got in trouble in those places.

Oh, and WIllie Colon was there too. Guess his suspension should be coming right after Ben's.

Willie Colon wasn't accused of anything. He managed to restrain himself from entering a bathroom with a drunk twenty year old coed.

Seriously, James Harrison beat a woman and didn't get suspended.

He should have. His case is independent of Ben's



Pappy

flippy
04-13-2010, 10:09 AM
I still don't get what Ben can and can't do.

Beer - no
Sex - no
Partying - no
Anything other than practicing, playing, studying, or sleeping - no


Who cares how much money he makes? It's irrelevant.

What's the standard and what did he do wrong?

Are people holding him to an impossible standard? If the media says he shouldn't be in a certain circumstance, does that make it so?

I'm not trying to be dense. I just don't get it.

There are hundreds of other players in the NFL who haven't been accused of sexual misconduct in the past 12 months. Why don't we start there?

If you think Ben isn't doing something wrong and he is just a poor unfortunate victim then you are naive.

Avoiding physical contact, especially of a sexual nature, with someone who you have known for less than 2 hours should set off the common sense alert. I think it probably does with the vast majority of society. Obviously it doesn't with Ben.

If 2 adults agree after 2 hours to have sex, why should anyone else care?

Many don't believe in sex before marriage. Should all non married NFLers be suspend for having sex before marriage?

What about guys who cheat on their wives? They should be suspended too because we wouldn't cheat on our wives.

Where do we draw this common sense line?

papillon
04-13-2010, 10:15 AM
I still don't get what Ben can and can't do.

Beer - no
Sex - no
Partying - no
Anything other than practicing, playing, studying, or sleeping - no


Who cares how much money he makes? It's irrelevant.

What's the standard and what did he do wrong?

Are people holding him to an impossible standard? If the media says he shouldn't be in a certain circumstance, does that make it so?

I'm not trying to be dense. I just don't get it.

There are hundreds of other players in the NFL who haven't been accused of sexual misconduct in the past 12 months. Why don't we start there?

If you think Ben isn't doing something wrong and he is just a poor unfortunate victim then you are naive.

Avoiding physical contact, especially of a sexual nature, with someone who you have known for less than 2 hours should set off the common sense alert. I think it probably does with the vast majority of society. Obviously it doesn't with Ben.

If 2 adults agree after 2 hours to have sex, why should anyone else care?

Many don't believe in sex before marriage. Should all non married NFLers be suspend for having sex before marriage?

What about guys who cheat on their wives? They should be suspended too because we wouldn't cheat on our wives.

Where do we draw this common sense line?

This doesn't have anything to do with two adults consenting to sex. It has to do with Ben's decision not to invite her back to his home, a hotel, or an overnight flight to the Ritz Carlton in New York where you can screw your brains out and no one gives a d@mn. If he takes her home and they have at it and she files charges there's no one to corroborate what occurred while at his house. Unless, he physically harmed her while she was there which would be relatively easy to determine by forensics he's safe and two adults can screw their brains out.

You all can't separate the legal issues from the decisions that were made.

Pappy

MaxAMillion
04-13-2010, 10:48 AM
I would suspend Ben for a couple of games. He has the largest contract on the team and he is the face of the franchise. The fact that he can act classless and with little regard for his employer when going out is something that I am sure pisses off the Rooney family. I am sure after the earlier rape allegation, the Rooney's spoke to Ben about the need to represent the Steelers in a positive light. Less than a year later, he is trying to have sex with college girls in public.
I think the Rooney's will say that they want to make sure that lessons are learned so a penalty will be forthcoming.

NWNewell
04-13-2010, 11:16 AM
I don't get this idea that Ben must be suspended????

What did he do?

The police aren't pursuing it, nor should the NFL.

What did he do that was so detrimental?

No one knows for sure.

But yet everyone wants to pass judgement since Ben was found guilty according to TMZ and the court of public opinion.

One thing is for sure, Pittsburghers will never embrace their starting QB - whoever he may be.

It's odd.

Seriously, flippy?

You really think he handled himself appropriately? You would handle yourself that way? You would want your son to act that way? You would want someone to act that way with your daughter?

I'm not saying he did anything criminal. And I'm not saying the girl acted appropriately either.

I'm just saying that if my son acted in such a manor, even if he was a college kid too ( and even if there was no criminal action) I would whoop his a$$ and tell him to grow up!! Their would be repercussion for his actions in my household, just as there would have been in my parents household. My dad would have kicked my a$$.

I see no reason that our average citizen/fan shouldn't be critical of his actions too. Since he is not my son and I can't whoop his a$$, so I would love to see the Rooney's do it in their household. He wants to act like a juvenile, treat him like one.

papillon
04-13-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't get this idea that Ben must be suspended????

What did he do?

The police aren't pursuing it, nor should the NFL.

What did he do that was so detrimental?

No one knows for sure.

But yet everyone wants to pass judgement since Ben was found guilty according to TMZ and the court of public opinion.

One thing is for sure, Pittsburghers will never embrace their starting QB - whoever he may be.

It's odd.

Seriously, flippy?

You really think he handled himself appropriately? You would handle yourself that way? You would want your son to act that way? You would want someone to act that way with your daughter?

I'm not saying he did anything criminal. And I'm not saying the girl acted appropriately either.

I'm just saying that if my son acted in such a manor, even if he was a college kid too ( and even if there was no criminal action) I would whoop his a$$ and tell him to grow up!! Their would be repercussion for his actions.

I see no reason that our average citizen/fan shouldn't be critical of his actions too. Since he is not my son and I can't whoop his a$$ I would love to see the Rooney's do it. He wants to act like a juvenile, treat him like one.

:Bow :Bow :Bow

Thank you, I've been trying to explain this nicely, the blunt force trauma method nay be more apropos. :tt2

Pappy

BradshawsHairdresser
04-13-2010, 11:35 AM
If it was only this Georgia incident, then maybe Ben gets by without a suspension.
But there's a history there, a history that shows Ben lacks respect for his team.

He has a clause in his contract that prohibits him from riding motorbikes. He thumbs his nose at his team by riding his bike anyway...and ends up nearly getting killed in the process. And it hurts his team's chances for that season.

Next, he is accused of rape by a hotel employee. Her story sounds sort of fishy, but half a year later, her civil suit is still going forward. You would think, at this point, as a $100-million dollar celebrity, Ben would realize he might have a target on his back, and ought to watch himself more closely. You would think, as the highly-paid franchise QB of the Pittsburgh Steelers, he would realize he owes his good living to his sport and his owners and his fans, and would want to do all he could to avoid bringing embarrassment to them. So what does he do? While the civil suit in Nevada is still going forward, Ben goes clubbing in a college town, brings underage co-eds into the VIP lounge and gives them alcohol, then follows one of them into a bathroom for sex. Why can't people see that, guilty of a crime or not, Ben was once again thumbing his nose?

A suspension and fine would be highly appropriate. A message needs to be sent, to Ben and to the rest of the league.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
04-13-2010, 11:39 AM
I don't get this idea that Ben must be suspended????

What did he do?


I am not passing judgement on him as a person just on his actions. If he learns from this he can become a better person but the following...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10103/1049930-66.stm


Bright portrayed Roethlisberger as a real creep during his news conference. He said Roethlisberger "provided shots of alcohol" for the alleged underaged victim and her friends. He also said Roethlisberger invited the "highly intoxicated" alleged victim into the club's VIP area and later followed her into a small bathroom.

"Significant questions about what had occurred [after that] persist," Bright said.


Says it all for me. I expect better of the QB of the Steelers for reasons to numerous. I think a two game benching is just the message this kid needs right now.

Steel Life
04-13-2010, 03:14 PM
Why suspend Ben...when you can tar & feather him & ride him out of town on a rail?

He gotten killed - rightfully so - for his poor judgment in putting himself in these situations. But now it's because he didn't get charged, or really get punished enough. But it's also because the media doesn't like him, because Terry Bradshaw doesn't like him, because he wore the wrong shirt that night, because he wore the wrong shirt last night, because he put on weight, because of a bad haircut, because he rode a motorcycle, because he got hit riding that motorcycle, because he represents the team, because he represents the city, because he represents you & me, because he should be grateful, because he owes it to us...but not because he was found guilty.

papillon
04-13-2010, 03:30 PM
Why suspend Ben...when you can tar & feather him & ride him out of town on a rail?

He gotten killed - rightfully so - for his poor judgment in putting himself in these situations. But now it's because he didn't get charged, or really get punished enough. But it's also because the media doesn't like him, because Terry Bradshaw doesn't like him, because he wore the wrong shirt that night, because he wore the wrong shirt last night, because he put on weight, because of a bad haircut, because he rode a motorcycle, because he got hit riding that motorcycle, because he represents the team, because he represents the city, because he represents you & me, because he should be grateful, because he owes it to us...but not because he was found guilty.

The Pittsburgh Steeler football team is not bound by the burden of proof of a criminal trial. Everything you mentioned can come into play (except representing you and me, he does not) as the Steelers determine their next steps. There is no obligation to the fans, zero, none, nada, but I do believe he has an obligation to the billion dollar business known as the Pittsburgh Steelers. And, his behavior over the past 9-10 months has been abhorrent and detrimental to the team. If the Steelers determine that there should be punishment he should accept without clamor and move on.

Pappy

Steel Life
04-13-2010, 03:47 PM
Why suspend Ben...when you can tar & feather him & ride him out of town on a rail?

He gotten killed - rightfully so - for his poor judgment in putting himself in these situations. But now it's because he didn't get charged, or really get punished enough. But it's also because the media doesn't like him, because Terry Bradshaw doesn't like him, because he wore the wrong shirt that night, because he wore the wrong shirt last night, because he put on weight, because of a bad haircut, because he rode a motorcycle, because he got hit riding that motorcycle, because he represents the team, because he represents the city, because he represents you & me, because he should be grateful, because he owes it to us...but not because he was found guilty.

The Pittsburgh Steeler football team is not bound by the burden of proof of a criminal trial. Everything you mentioned can come into play (except representing you and me, he does not) as the Steelers determine their next steps. There is no obligation to the fans, zero, none, nada, but I do believe he has an obligation to the billion dollar business known as the Pittsburgh Steelers. And, his behavior over the past 9-10 months has been abhorrent and detrimental to the team. If the Steelers determine that there should be punishment he should accept without clamor and move on.

Pappy
I agree Pap...I'm deriding the "lynch mob" mentality that has slipped into this whole thing. I hope that all parties involved take a very pragmatic approach & accept it for what it is & what it isn't. Shoot - now they're bringing race into it & whether the union needs to challenge Goodell on any suspension, etc. I just want it over & him behind center ASAP. After all if Kobe, Ray Lewis & Leonard Little can survive what they did, then so can Ben.

papillon
04-13-2010, 04:00 PM
[quote="Steel Life":25siogzv]Why suspend Ben...when you can tar & feather him & ride him out of town on a rail?

He gotten killed - rightfully so - for his poor judgment in putting himself in these situations. But now it's because he didn't get charged, or really get punished enough. But it's also because the media doesn't like him, because Terry Bradshaw doesn't like him, because he wore the wrong shirt that night, because he wore the wrong shirt last night, because he put on weight, because of a bad haircut, because he rode a motorcycle, because he got hit riding that motorcycle, because he represents the team, because he represents the city, because he represents you & me, because he should be grateful, because he owes it to us...but not because he was found guilty.

The Pittsburgh Steeler football team is not bound by the burden of proof of a criminal trial. Everything you mentioned can come into play (except representing you and me, he does not) as the Steelers determine their next steps. There is no obligation to the fans, zero, none, nada, but I do believe he has an obligation to the billion dollar business known as the Pittsburgh Steelers. And, his behavior over the past 9-10 months has been abhorrent and detrimental to the team. If the Steelers determine that there should be punishment he should accept without clamor and move on.

Pappy
I agree Pap...I'm deriding the "lynch mob" mentality that has slipped into this whole thing. I hope that all parties involved take a very pragmatic approach & accept it for what it is & what it isn't. Shoot - now they're bringing race into it & whether the union needs to challenge Goodell on any suspension, etc. I just want it over & him behind center ASAP. After all if Kobe, Ray Lewis & Leonard Little can survive what they did, then so can Ben.[/quote:25siogzv]

The difference will be the organization for which Ben Roethlisberger is paid to be quarterback. The Steelers are not the Lakers, Ravens or Rams.

Pappy

Slapstick
04-14-2010, 06:15 AM
The difference is that Bryant, Lewis and Little actually had charges filed against them at some point...