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View Full Version : The other view - Could be a GREAT move getting rid of Stonio



SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-12-2010, 03:48 PM
Nobody's got the Crystal Ball, not even the Rooney's, so it's all playing the odds.

Assuming the 4-game suspension rumors are true, that means we "lose him" for at most three quarters of a season.

But, what do you think the chances are that he'll fail another drug test before too much of the season is over?

If that's the case, he's gone for the whole year. At least. And I don't think chronic stoners give up the wacky weed even when their career is on the line. Look at Ricky Williams ...

At this point I agree with the F.O. - ANYTHING, even a 5th rounder, is more valuable than a player who can't see the field because of a drug suspension. I think it's telling that there are reports that the Steelers have been shopping him around for weeks and no one else wanted him.

If he stays clean - the Jets got a better deal. If he doesn't, we did. Will he stay clean - personally, I doubt it. I think the Jets are more likely to only get regrets from this move than Superbowls.


Just my :2c , to counter balance all the talk about how stupid the Rooney's and the front office are!

Dee Dub
04-12-2010, 05:06 PM
Agreed....and I personally think Mike Wallace turns out to be a better receiver than Santonio Holmes.

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Agreed....and I personally think Mike Wallace turns out to be a better receiver than Santonio Holmes.

whoa turns out to be better? i would say he is already better than holmes. if wallace got the throws holmes did last season he would of had better numbers. if tone had the few passes thrown to him a game he would of had awful stats

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2010, 05:12 PM
i like wallace

hoepfully he does as good going up against the other team's #1 CB.

big difference then the 3rd/4th Cb's he faced last year

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 05:17 PM
i like wallace

hoepfully he does as good going up against the other team's #1 CB.

big difference then the 3rd/4th Cb's he faced last year

if ben and wallace get better with timing on the deep routes there is no cb that can stay stride for stride with wallace.

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2010, 05:19 PM
c'mon

i like the guy too, but lets relax a bit here

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 05:23 PM
c'mon

i like the guy too, but lets relax a bit here

well he did have the best rookie season of any steeler wr i have ever seen. he has better speed than tone and most wr's in the nfl. just about every deep pass that was thrown to him last season was under thrown or not thrown soon enough.

Sugar
04-12-2010, 05:27 PM
Agreed....and I personally think Mike Wallace turns out to be a better receiver than Santonio Holmes.

whoa turns out to be better? i would say he is already better than holmes. if wallace got the throws holmes did last season he would of had better numbers. if tone had the few passes thrown to him a game he would of had awful stats

Wow- have you guys been joining Holmes around a bowl or something? Wallace is OK and all. There is no reason to believe that he will be any more than competent as a #2 with better defenders covering him.

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 05:34 PM
Agreed....and I personally think Mike Wallace turns out to be a better receiver than Santonio Holmes.

whoa turns out to be better? i would say he is already better than holmes. if wallace got the throws holmes did last season he would of had better numbers. if tone had the few passes thrown to him a game he would of had awful stats

Wow- have you guys been joining Holmes around a bowl or something? Wallace is OK and all. There is no reason to believe that he will be any more than competent as a #2 with better defenders covering him.

he put up much better numbers than either ward or holmes their rookie seasons. for me that is reason enough to belive that wallace will be or is better than holmes. without holmes wallace will get double the throws which will equal double the production

Sugar
04-12-2010, 05:39 PM
Agreed....and I personally think Mike Wallace turns out to be a better receiver than Santonio Holmes.

whoa turns out to be better? i would say he is already better than holmes. if wallace got the throws holmes did last season he would of had better numbers. if tone had the few passes thrown to him a game he would of had awful stats

Wow- have you guys been joining Holmes around a bowl or something? Wallace is OK and all. There is no reason to believe that he will be any more than competent as a #2 with better defenders covering him.

he put up much better numbers than either ward or holmes their rookie seasons. for me that is reason enough to belive that wallace will be or is better than holmes. without holmes wallace will get double the throws which will equal double the production

Um, the guy is being covered by the worst db's that could make the team. There is NO reason to believe that he will be able to be nearly as productive as a #2. In fact, part of the reason he may have put up the numbers he did was because of Holmes, the SB MVP from the prior year, who ended up with over 1200 yards. With no Holmes as a threat and an aging Ward, I won't be shocked if Wallace's production suffers.

calmkiller
04-12-2010, 05:39 PM
c'mon

i like the guy too, but lets relax a bit here

well he did have the best rookie season of any steeler wr i have ever seen. he has better speed than tone and most wr's in the nfl. just about every deep pass that was thrown to him last season was under thrown or not thrown soon enough.


Troy Edward had a pretty good rookie campaign too and we all know how that turned out...

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 05:48 PM
Agreed....and I personally think Mike Wallace turns out to be a better receiver than Santonio Holmes.

whoa turns out to be better? i would say he is already better than holmes. if wallace got the throws holmes did last season he would of had better numbers. if tone had the few passes thrown to him a game he would of had awful stats

Wow- have you guys been joining Holmes around a bowl or something? Wallace is OK and all. There is no reason to believe that he will be any more than competent as a #2 with better defenders covering him.

he put up much better numbers than either ward or holmes their rookie seasons. for me that is reason enough to belive that wallace will be or is better than holmes. without holmes wallace will get double the throws which will equal double the production

Um, the guy is being covered by the worst db's that could make the team. There is NO reason to believe that he will be able to be nearly as productive as a #2. In fact, part of the reason he may have put up the numbers he did was because of Holmes, the SB MVP from the prior year, who ended up with over 1200 yards. With no Holmes as a threat and an aging Ward, I won't be shocked if Wallace's production suffers.

yeah its possible that he wont produce the same numbers even though he will get more passes thrown to him because he will be going up against better cb's. i think he will replace holmes without any problems and possibly put up better numbers than holmes. he is bigger, faster and has better hands than holmes. just my opinion. we will soon find out how he does against better cb's this season

Discipline of Steel
04-12-2010, 06:28 PM
My opinion that his numbers improve as Ben's #2 WR and he may overtake Hines by the end of the year. He is a quality player.

Sugar
04-12-2010, 06:34 PM
My opinion that his numbers improve as Ben's #2 WR and he may overtake Hines by the end of the year. He is a quality player.

I really hope you're right, but there is no reason to believe that. There's something to be said for optimism, but the reality is that we just lost our best receiver today.

Discipline of Steel
04-12-2010, 06:50 PM
My opinion that his numbers improve as Ben's #2 WR and he may overtake Hines by the end of the year. He is a quality player.

I really hope you're right, but there is no reason to believe that. There's something to be said for optimism, but the reality is that we just lost our best receiver today.

I predict Wallace will have better numbers than Holmes this year. One, Stonio is suspended for the first 4 games...and two, the Steelers passing game has more chemistry than the Jets and will put up better numbers overall.

Sugar
04-12-2010, 06:57 PM
[quote="Discipline of Steel":37y428dk]My opinion that his numbers improve as Ben's #2 WR and he may overtake Hines by the end of the year. He is a quality player.

I really hope you're right, but there is no reason to believe that. There's something to be said for optimism, but the reality is that we just lost our best receiver today.

I predict Wallace will have better numbers than Holmes this year. One, Stonio is suspended for the first 4 games...and two, the Steelers passing game has more chemistry than the Jets and will put up better numbers overall.[/quote:37y428dk]

Yeah, but Wallace won't have DB's paying attention to Santonio Holmes and leaving him open either.

I hope you're right. If you are, it might be only because Hines Ward is becoming more injury prone and Holmes will be stuck with Mark Sanchez throwing to him.

Discipline of Steel
04-12-2010, 07:09 PM
[quote="Discipline of Steel":2ucus2h3]My opinion that his numbers improve as Ben's #2 WR and he may overtake Hines by the end of the year. He is a quality player.

I really hope you're right, but there is no reason to believe that. There's something to be said for optimism, but the reality is that we just lost our best receiver today.

I predict Wallace will have better numbers than Holmes this year. One, Stonio is suspended for the first 4 games...and two, the Steelers passing game has more chemistry than the Jets and will put up better numbers overall.

Yeah, but Wallace won't have DB's paying attention to Santonio Holmes and leaving him open either.

I hope you're right. If you are, it might be only because Hines Ward is becoming more injury prone and Holmes will be stuck with Mark Sanchez throwing to him.[/quote:2ucus2h3]

Thank you for making my point for me. The only factor you left out was his talent, are you saying the kid doesnt really have that much talent? Is this a position you take to add support to your position that the Holmes deal was bad for the Steelers?

hawaiiansteel
04-12-2010, 07:16 PM
i'm not even arguing whether or not we're better off with or without Sanstonio...

but seriously, the Titans could get a 4th round pick for Pacman Jones and all we could get is a stinkin' 5th rounder? :wft

Sugar
04-12-2010, 07:20 PM
[quote=Sugar][quote="Discipline of Steel":1xls3rf2]My opinion that his numbers improve as Ben's #2 WR and he may overtake Hines by the end of the year. He is a quality player.

I really hope you're right, but there is no reason to believe that. There's something to be said for optimism, but the reality is that we just lost our best receiver today.

I predict Wallace will have better numbers than Holmes this year. One, Stonio is suspended for the first 4 games...and two, the Steelers passing game has more chemistry than the Jets and will put up better numbers overall.

Yeah, but Wallace won't have DB's paying attention to Santonio Holmes and leaving him open either.

I hope you're right. If you are, it might be only because Hines Ward is becoming more injury prone and Holmes will be stuck with Mark Sanchez throwing to him.[/quote:1xls3rf2]

Thank you for making my point for me. The only factor you left out was his talent, are you saying the kid doesnt really have that much talent? Is this a position you take to add support to your position that the Holmes deal was bad for the Steelers?[/quote:1xls3rf2]

He's got some talent, but he's not better than Santonio Holmes. Wallace may put up better numbers than Holmes this year, but I really doubt he puts up better numbrs than Holmes would have as a Steeler.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-12-2010, 07:22 PM
i'm not even arguing whether or not we're better off with or without Sanstonio...

but seriously, the Titans could get a 4th round pick for Pacman Jones and all we could get is a stinkin' 5th rounder? :wft


I think it's because:

1) The MOST he will play is 12 games next season (4 game suspension).
2) Other teams feel like the Steelers seem to - odds aren't high he'll put down the bong long enough to avoid the next drug test - he may NEVER see an NFL team again.

In that sense, with other teams having figured this out like the Steelers did, we're pretty lucky to get a 5th round pick. It's been published that the Steelers have been shopping him for weeks, and got NO TAKES!!

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2010, 07:31 PM
Agreed....and I personally think Mike Wallace turns out to be a better receiver than Santonio Holmes.

whoa turns out to be better? i would say he is already better than holmes. if wallace got the throws holmes did last season he would of had better numbers. if tone had the few passes thrown to him a game he would of had awful stats

Wow- have you guys been joining Holmes around a bowl or something? Wallace is OK and all. There is no reason to believe that he will be any more than competent as a #2 with better defenders covering him.

he put up much better numbers than either ward or holmes their rookie seasons. for me that is reason enough to belive that wallace will be or is better than holmes. without holmes wallace will get double the throws which will equal double the production

Um, the guy is being covered by the worst db's that could make the team. There is NO reason to believe that he will be able to be nearly as productive as a #2. In fact, part of the reason he may have put up the numbers he did was because of Holmes, the SB MVP from the prior year, who ended up with over 1200 yards. With no Holmes as a threat and an aging Ward, I won't be shocked if Wallace's production suffers.

thank you

i do believe wallace can develop into a solid #1, expecting it in his 2nd year is wishful thinking.

holmes was tied for 2nd in the NFL in receptions over 20 yards. you dont lose production like that and not be hurt by it.

and to add, if wallace does approach those numbers, our #3 is a severe downgrade, cause instead of having the promising wallace there...we have ARE

NorthCoast
04-12-2010, 07:32 PM
Last season Holmes was in on 1,040 offensive snaps. He was target 127 times catching 62% of his passes at 15.8 yds/catch. He averaged 6.3 YAC/reception.

Wallace was in on 638 snaps. He was targeted 71 times catching 55% of his passes at 19.4 yds/catch. He averaged 3.4 YAC/rec.

These are good numbers for a rookie and far exceed both Ward and Holmes rookie seasons. There is nothing that suggests he will not be a VERY good WR in the NFL if he continues to develop.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-12-2010, 07:35 PM
...

whoa turns out to be better? i would say he is already better than holmes. if wallace got the throws holmes did last season he would of had better numbers. if tone had the few passes thrown to him a game he would of had awful stats

Wow- have you guys been joining Holmes around a bowl or something? Wallace is OK and all. There is no reason to believe that he will be any more than competent as a #2 with better defenders covering him.

he put up much better numbers than either ward or holmes their rookie seasons. for me that is reason enough to belive that wallace will be or is better than holmes. without holmes wallace will get double the throws which will equal double the production

Um, the guy is being covered by the worst db's that could make the team. There is NO reason to believe that he will be able to be nearly as productive as a #2. In fact, part of the reason he may have put up the numbers he did was because of Holmes, the SB MVP from the prior year, who ended up with over 1200 yards. With no Holmes as a threat and an aging Ward, I won't be shocked if Wallace's production suffers.

thank you

i do believe wallace can develop into a solid #1, expecting it in his 2nd year is wishful thinking.

holmes was tied for 2nd in the NFL in receptions over 20 yards. you dont lose production like that and not be hurt by it.

and to add, if wallace does approach those numbers, our #3 is a severe downgrade, cause instead of having the promising wallace there...we have ARE

Remember - the comparison isn't between Wallace and what Holmes' potential playmaking COULD be ...

...it's between Wallace and a guy who is guaranteed to miss one-fourth of the season, with probably pretty good odds he will miss lots more or even ALL of the rest of the season (because it's unlikely he'll put down the peace pipe).

Looking at it that way, I think the only thing we can say is that we're fortunate to have a deep WR corps with a lot of upside.

stlrz d
04-12-2010, 07:37 PM
Last season Holmes was in on 1,040 offensive snaps. He was target 127 times catching 62% of his passes at 15.8 yds/catch. He averaged 6.3 YAC/reception.

Wallace was in on 638 snaps. He was targeted 71 times catching 55% of his passes at 19.4 yds/catch. He averaged 3.4 YAC/rec.

These are good numbers for a rookie and far exceed both Ward and Holmes rookie seasons. There is nothing that suggests he will not be a VERY good WR in the NFL if he continues to develop.


I agree. I just hope it continues when he's being covered by the 1st or 2nd best DB on the opposing D.

hawaiiansteel
04-12-2010, 09:00 PM
i wasn't shocked by the trade itself, but i was shocked to hear we only got a 5th rounder for Sanstonio.


Holmes: Shocked at trade

Monday, April 12, 2010
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Santonio Holmes said today he was "shocked" to learn the Steelers had traded him to the New York Jets but is "ready to move forward to start a new career."

Holmes, speaking with reporters on a conference call late this afternoon, said Kevin Colbert, the Steelers director of football operations, informed him of the trade about 9 p.m. Sunday.

"I was very shocked," Holmes said. "But it opened a lot of doors and gives me a new chance to start over."

The NFL announced today that Holmes would be suspended for the first four games of the season after violating the league's substance abuse policy.

"Right now, I'm accountable for what happened," Holmes said, adding that "I don't think I have to dig out of any holes. These guys have opened up their arms to me."

Holmes had no parting shots for the Steelers.

"I'm definitely going to leave with great memories. I had a tremendous time, spending four years," Holmes said. "Those guys still trust and believe in me. It's just unfortunate we had to part ways. It worked out better for the both of us."

New York Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum, on the same conference call, acknowledged the Jets were taking a risk by acquiring Holmes but noted it only cost his team a fifth-round draft choice.

"Santonio's situation, obviously there have been some bumps in the roads in the past," Tannenbaum said. "Hopefully he has learned from that. We understand there are risks, significant risks but at the end of the day we felt the price was reasonable and the risk reasonable."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10102/1049842-100.stm

http://www.reefersmoke.com/images/wake-n-bake.gif

Sugar
04-12-2010, 09:32 PM
Last season Holmes was in on 1,040 offensive snaps. He was target 127 times catching 62% of his passes at 15.8 yds/catch. He averaged 6.3 YAC/reception.

Wallace was in on 638 snaps. He was targeted 71 times catching 55% of his passes at 19.4 yds/catch. He averaged 3.4 YAC/rec.

These are good numbers for a rookie and far exceed both Ward and Holmes rookie seasons. There is nothing that suggests he will not be a VERY good WR in the NFL if he continues to develop.


I agree. I just hope it continues when he's being covered by the 1st or 2nd best DB on the opposing D.

I hope it continues when Santonio Holmes isn't on the field to take up the best DB's too.

Wolfhound45
04-12-2010, 09:41 PM
My take? We can compare apples and oranges all we want. The bottom line is that Wallace is now our guy. Time to get behind him.

Stonio is gone, period.

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 09:54 PM
to bad i dont have twitter because i have some great connections in nyc and ct to get sour diesel at a good price. what a loser haha. he will be in rykers island in no time