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Shawn
04-12-2010, 08:28 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

Oviedo
04-12-2010, 08:31 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

I guess they are old fashioned "crazies" putting principle over practicality. They have never really moved into the enlightened thinking of the 21st century where everything is grey as long as you can get something out of it. What a bunch of losers.

Shawn
04-12-2010, 08:37 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

I guess they are old fashioned "crazies" putting principle over practicality. They have never really moved into the enlightened thinking of the 21st century where everything is grey as long as you can get something out of it. What a bunch of losers.

You used to be so level headed. What happened to you? That was absolutely the most ignorant thing I have read in quite sometime. So let me get your asinine reasoning straight. You think because the Rooneys decided to dump Holmes to the first sad offer that makes them moral and upright? Why not shop him? Why not wait til draft day? No one can tell me the guy wasn't worth more than a 5th round pick.

The Rooneys are reactionary and emotional and let their emotions get the best of them on this one.

SteelAbility
04-12-2010, 08:39 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

They may have wanted the uncertainty of Holmes not to affect the draft. I don't like the fact we got a 5th for him, but I can see some merit for a quick dump from that perspective. Historically, the Steelers are probably the team most dedicated to building through the draft.

The other factor I'm seeing is that with the extra draft pick there are more options for trading up at a key strategic moment. Suddenly you can throw a 5th into the deal when you feel you really want a certain player. Even, better, if you think the dropoff from the 4th to the 5th is not that much you can "sweeten" and up-trade with a 4th that appears much juicier than it really is. If the Steelers can somehow use that 5th to parlay an additional 2nd or even move up in the 2nd (don't we have something like 8 draft picks already?) then the deal may not have been nearly as bad as one would think, perhaps even a net positive.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-12-2010, 08:40 AM
somebody is definitely reactionary and emotional.

but it ain't the rooneys.

Oviedo
04-12-2010, 08:45 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

I guess they are old fashioned "crazies" putting principle over practicality. They have never really moved into the enlightened thinking of the 21st century where everything is grey as long as you can get something out of it. What a bunch of losers.

You used to be so level headed. What happened to you? That was absolutely the most ignorant thing I have read in quite sometime. So let me get your asinine reasoning straight. You think because the Rooneys decided to dump Holmes to the first sad offer that makes them moral and upright? Why not shop him? Why not wait til draft day? No one can tell me the guy wasn't worth more than a 5th round pick.

The Rooneys are reactionary and emotional and let their emotions get the best of them on this one.

You are obviously more enlightened than me. I'll just keep my asanine virews and just lump me as a old fashioned crazy too.

I think the Rooney's did whatever they wanted with a piece of THEIR business. You assume you know what they know and what they were thinking but you usually assume alot anyway.

Shawn
04-12-2010, 08:47 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

They may have wanted the uncertainty of Holmes not to affect the draft. I don't like the fact we got a 5th for him, but I can see some merit for a quick dump from that perspective. Historically, the Steelers are probably the team most dedicated to building through the draft.

The other factor I'm seeing is that with the extra draft pick there are more options for trading up at a key strategic moment. Suddenly you can throw a 5th into the deal when you feel you really want a certain player. If the Steelers can somehow use that 5th to parlay an additional 2nd or even move up in the 2nd (don't we have something like 8 draft picks already?) then the deal may not have been nearly as bad as one would think, perhaps even a net positive.

Fair enough...but a 5th? There better be some sort of draft day deal going on between the Steelers and Jets. If not...they got raped. You don't just dump a star player because you want an extra pick to deal in the upcoming draft. Especially in a year short of quality WRs.

ANPSTEEL
04-12-2010, 08:49 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

Talent wise- Holmes is an excellent receiver, and probably worth a low 1st or high 2nd round pick.

But brains wise- he is a frikkin retard. and that is being unfavorable to retards.
He is in the Chris Henry school of learning. Meaning- not learning.

Whether it was audacity or stupidity that possessed him to post the Wake & Bake comment - we'll never know. Either way- in a league that scrutinizes everything the players do- to advertise your blatant and continued usage of an illegal and league banned substance is tantamount to throwing oneself squarely under the bus.

This train wreck is just waiting to happen. And while I don't make light of the tragic ending to Chris Henry's life- Santonio is not far removed from that same fate.

My only issue with this trade is that the team sent doofus to the Jets. A good team, and probably a place he wanted to go. I would have much prefered they send him to Buffalo or Kansas City- where he could rot in the obscurity of a crappy -really small market team.

Shawn
04-12-2010, 08:50 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

I guess they are old fashioned "crazies" putting principle over practicality. They have never really moved into the enlightened thinking of the 21st century where everything is grey as long as you can get something out of it. What a bunch of losers.

You used to be so level headed. What happened to you? That was absolutely the most ignorant thing I have read in quite sometime. So let me get your asinine reasoning straight. You think because the Rooneys decided to dump Holmes to the first sad offer that makes them moral and upright? Why not shop him? Why not wait til draft day? No one can tell me the guy wasn't worth more than a 5th round pick.

The Rooneys are reactionary and emotional and let their emotions get the best of them on this one.

You are obviously more enlightened than me. I'll just keep my asanine virews and just lump me as a old fashioned crazy too.

I think the Rooney's did whatever they wanted with a piece of THEIR business. You assume you know what they know and what they were thinking but you usually assume alot anyway.


Obviously, I am more enlightened than you. I actually believe Holmes was worth more than a 5th but you are trying to act haughty. If you and the Rooneys wanted to deal Holmes great. But, get full market. And then you need to trade Ben and Reed...please don't be hypocrites. They have brought great shame on the organization. Lets deal them for a bag of doritos and a future 7th round draft pick.

steelblood
04-12-2010, 08:53 AM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.

Shawn
04-12-2010, 08:54 AM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.


$$$...well said.

flippy
04-12-2010, 08:59 AM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.

Good point. I bet the 5th was the best anyone would give. I'm sure they did due dilligence to see what they could get.

Oviedo
04-12-2010, 09:01 AM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.

While it is just my haughty and asanine opinion I agree with you. The Rooney's "snapped the chalkline" on this off season's issues. While some want to sell Holmes as "special" insiders in the league probably already whether he is in line for a suspension and his value is decreased because of self professed affinity for dope. He is a major risk for anyone taking him and assuming anyone was going to give up a high draft pick PLUS extend him to a mega contract like he is likely looking for.

As this plays out over time and other things fall into place the reactionary Rooney's will likely end up on top of the issue like they typically do. If they don't getting rid of cancer is never a bad thing.

BURGH86STEEL
04-12-2010, 09:02 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

Maybe a 5th round pick is the best they could get? Maybe they are tired of all the negative press? They gave him more then one opportunity to get his act together.

It appears that Ben will be next on the list if he does not get his act together.

SteelCrazy
04-12-2010, 09:05 AM
WAAAAAAAAAA!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

I hope that doesn't help

ANPSTEEL
04-12-2010, 09:06 AM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.


I think you are correct about the motivation behind the decision, but I'd add this to the teams thinking.

If you have two players in legal trouble, and both are charged- or not charged. You have a very public display of equality or inequality pending.

If both players were on the team- and both players have the case dropped- don't you have to treat both players the same way- and punish/suspend them equally???

I'm sure the Players Union would fight for that.

I think the Rooneys traded Holmes before his legal situation was resolved - specifically to avoid any appearance of unbalanced discipline.

If they had kept Holmes- and suspended him- they would have been practically forced to suspend Ben as well.

Now- Holmes is gone- and if no charges are filed against Ben today- the team has no issues, and can handle the punishment however they deem appropriate.

MaxAMillion
04-12-2010, 09:10 AM
I honestly don't get it. I don't understand why they couldn't have waited to see what else is out there. I don't think turning the page in two weeks is any different than turning the page today.

I think this move hurts the team, but at least the Rooney's have what they believe is moral high ground (they seem to pick and choose when to stand on that high ground).

anger 82&95
04-12-2010, 09:25 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary

Talent wise- Holmes is an excellent receiver, and probably worth a low 1st or high 2nd round pick.

But brains wise- he is a frikkin retard. and that is being unfavorable to retards.
He is in the Chris Henry school of learning. Meaning- not learning.

Whether it was audacity or stupidity that possessed him to post the Wake & Bake comment - we'll never know. Either way- in a league that scrutinizes everything the players do- to advertise your blatant and continued usage of an illegal and league banned substance is tantamount to throwing oneself squarely under the bus.
This train wreck is just waiting to happen. And while I don't make light of the tragic ending to Chris Henry's life- Santonio is not far removed from that same fate.

My only issue with this trade is that the team sent doofus to the Jets. A good team, and probably a place he wanted to go. I would have much prefered they send him to Buffalo or Kansas City- where he could rot in the obscurity of a crappy -really small market team.$$$

JAR
04-12-2010, 09:26 AM
I think old man Dan is dipping a little too much in the Irish whiskey.

Oviedo
04-12-2010, 09:27 AM
I honestly don't get it. I don't understand why they couldn't have waited to see what else is out there. I don't think turning the page in two weeks is any different than turning the page today.

I think this move hurts the team, but at least the Rooney's have what they believe is moral high ground (they seem to pick and choose when to stand on that high ground).

When you own the team you can pick and choose whatever you want.

BURGH86STEEL
04-12-2010, 09:32 AM
One other thing to consider. I believe the organization can be penalized for poor player conduct. Should the Steelers keep Holmes on the roster and risk losing future draft picks or risk being fined?

phillyesq
04-12-2010, 09:43 AM
Since we're not talking about switching to a 4-3 defense, I can agree with Oviedo. :lol:

I never liked Holmes. I tolerated him because he was talented. I hated his stupid arm flex after every catch and his other assorted asinine in-game antics. I appreciate the great catch that he made in the SB, and the great run he had in the playoffs that year. I think the combination of his recent suspension and the asinine twitter comments sealed his fate.

There is a lot to be said for turning the page and moving on. If the ESPN report is accurate, and Ben will not be charged, the Steelers can start moving through the offseason without daily media accounts of problems and accusations. They can start to focus on football again.

When I first heard that the Steelers were getting only a 5th, I was disappointed. I hoped for more. However, the Jets only get 12 weeks of Holmes, assuming he doesn't get himself suspended for a full year. And he's demonstrated that he isn't just prone to a lapse in judgment here and there -- he is straight up felony stupid. A future suspension for him wouldn't surprise me at all. Nor would a Plaxico type incident. There is also an issue that a team trading for Holmes may not be able to extend him because of the 30% rule.

My only regret is that he was traded to a potential playoff foe, and that he got his wish of going to a big market. My top choice would have been trading him to St. Louis, with the Lions and Bills as second choices.

Chadman
04-12-2010, 09:45 AM
Chadman's thinking- it has a lot to do with the fact that, charged or not, Ben is about to spark a whole new batch of critisism for his antics this off season. The team is already disrupted as a result. Holmes acting like a douche adds to that.

As Chadman pointed out a few days back- both Ben & Holmes' trade value was shot because of their legal trouble. The Steelers were never going to get 'fair market value' for these guys. Every team in the NFL must know that the Steelers were not going to allow this to continue- some teams must have expected the Steelers to dump one, if not both. All these things, coupled with the suspension, the fact that one more strike equals a year off & Holmes is in the last year of his contract & will need to be paid soon- mean that the trade value was greatly diminished to what we, as fans, would hope for. Could the Steelers have gotten more? Yeah, probably. Maybe a 4th...perhaps even a 3rd if someone was really desperate.

But here's one other way to look at 'value'- if, 6 years ago, you were told you could spend a 1st round pick plus a couple of other picks on a player, and the return was 2 SB victories- but the catch was he would have to be traded for less value than what he's worth as his contract gets close to winding up- would you have still drafted that player?

SteelAbility
04-12-2010, 09:48 AM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.

Good point. I bet the 5th was the best anyone would give. I'm sure they did due dilligence to see what they could get.

Now that I think about it, they could have at least traded him to some team in the NFC, preferably a weaker team. Instead they just strengthened a potential rival for a SB spot.

BURGH86STEEL
04-12-2010, 09:56 AM
Chadman's thinking- it has a lot to do with the fact that, charged or not, Ben is about to spark a whole new batch of critisism for his antics this off season. The team is already disrupted as a result. Holmes acting like a douche adds to that.

As Chadman pointed out a few days back- both Ben & Holmes' trade value was shot because of their legal trouble. The Steelers were never going to get 'fair market value' for these guys. Every team in the NFL must know that the Steelers were not going to allow this to continue- some teams must have expected the Steelers to dump one, if not both. All these things, coupled with the suspension, the fact that one more strike equals a year off & Holmes is in the last year of his contract & will need to be paid soon- mean that the trade value was greatly diminished to what we, as fans, would hope for. Could the Steelers have gotten more? Yeah, probably. Maybe a 4th...perhaps even a 3rd if someone was really desperate.

But here's one other way to look at 'value'- if, 6 years ago, you were told you could spend a 1st round pick plus a couple of other picks on a player, and the return was 2 SB victories- but the catch was he would have to be traded for less value than what he's worth as his contract gets close to winding up- would you have still drafted that player?

I get your point but Holmes was only with the team for one SB victory.

SteelBucks
04-12-2010, 10:04 AM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.

Good point. I bet the 5th was the best anyone would give. I'm sure they did due dilligence to see what they could get.

I'm starting to believe a 5th was the best they could get. The pending lawsuit, the rumored drug suspension, and entering the final year of a contract limits any power that the Steelers have in any trade. I'd feel better about this if Leon Washington is in fact a part of the deal.

SS Laser
04-12-2010, 10:05 AM
I honestly don't get it. I don't understand why they couldn't have waited to see what else is out there. I don't think turning the page in two weeks is any different than turning the page today.

I think this move hurts the team, but at least the Rooney's have what they believe is moral high ground (they seem to pick and choose when to stand on that high ground).

:Agree

This Steelers is so much more moral then any other nfl team is BS! Has been for a long time. But you guys that need that to like the team can preach it all you like! So when the nexxt player gets in some trouble you can cry for a while and want his head. :Blah

Because this trade was more about the money Holmes will want!

ramblinjim
04-12-2010, 10:15 AM
I would never have imagined that Holmes was only worth a 5th Round pick. Maybe there's something else that isn't being reported. I figured Holmes was worth a lot more than that, a proven receiver with excellent hands, speed and the kid is clutch....just loves the ganja.

All I know is that the Rooney's are not infallible and have made mistakes over the years but there are Six Trophy's sitting out front that show that they make far more good decisions than bad.

Here are my thoughts:

1.) Holmes' tweets are just not reasonable, you cannot ask a fan to commit suicide. Why are NFL Players allowed to Tweet? I'll bet this starts to get worked into contracts one of these days.

2.) Holmes was going to be looking for big bucks next year that the Steelers weren't going to pay him, especially with all the baggage.

3.) Mike Wallace looks like the real deal and he and Holmes bring many of the same skill sets to bear, for less money.

You can make thoughtful, truthful arguments against all three of these points, knowing what we know, I would have let Holmes play through his contract year and let him light it up for us one more time before getting a third round comp pick for him in 2012. But the organization may know that with everything coming down the pipe, Holmes isn't worth more than a 5th round pick.

Ugh.

Ghost
04-12-2010, 10:18 AM
I honestly don't get it. I don't understand why they couldn't have waited to see what else is out there. I don't think turning the page in two weeks is any different than turning the page today.

I think this move hurts the team, but at least the Rooney's have what they believe is moral high ground (they seem to pick and choose when to stand on that high ground).

When you own the team you can pick and choose whatever you want.

So we can't even discuss it? What a great response.... I don't agree with your opinion so I'll dust off the old "if you owned the team" cliche. Weak.

Oviedo
04-12-2010, 10:25 AM
I honestly don't get it. I don't understand why they couldn't have waited to see what else is out there. I don't think turning the page in two weeks is any different than turning the page today.

I think this move hurts the team, but at least the Rooney's have what they believe is moral high ground (they seem to pick and choose when to stand on that high ground).

When you own the team you can pick and choose whatever you want.

So we can't even discuss it? What a great response.... I don't agree with your opinion so I'll dust off the old "if you owned the team" cliche. Weak.

No one is limiting your ability to discuss your heart away or offer any opinion you want. I'm just realistically recognizing the Rooney's "give a sh!t" factor about anything any of us write. This board is for fans not the Rooney's.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-12-2010, 10:33 AM
Obviously, I am more enlightened than you. I actually believe Holmes was worth more than a 5th but you are trying to act haughty. If you and the Rooneys wanted to deal Holmes great. But, get full market. And then you need to trade Ben and Reed...please don't be hypocrites. They have brought great shame on the organization. Lets deal them for a bag of doritos and a future 7th round draft pick.

Come on Shawn, don't fall into the trap that Holmes was traded for being involved in an alleged incident. It went way beyond that.

Holmes is supposedly about to be suspended for 4 games for a drug violation. That means he has been caught twice and one more positive lands him a one year stint with the Toronto Argos. Despite this he twitters that he is still at it.

While he is at it he takes numerous shots at over and over on his twitter account. He is also saying that he wants out after this suspension shortened year.

That is why he is gone. A fifth - yeah thats bad. Hopefully Washington is part of the package. But let us not compare this situation to Ben's. Even Reed is smart enough not to head home to smoke a bowl and tweet after each incident.

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 10:34 AM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.

Good point. I bet the 5th was the best anyone would give. I'm sure they did due dilligence to see what they could get.

Now that I think about it, they could have at least traded him to some team in the NFC, preferably a weaker team. Instead they just strengthened a potential rival for a SB spot.

no kidding!! thinking about rosters off the top of my head the jets are going to be the team to beat in the afc. an older sanchez, dominant defense, the best running game in the nfl and now we give them another weapon at WR!!! brilliant!! excellent move by the rooneys. morals values rah rah rah!!

i admire the rooneys for having a stance and sticking with it. no nonsense bs from players like holmes. i agree with it and i like it. however when decisions like this hurt your team then its a problem. i find it very hard to believe we couldnt do better than a 5th. washington isnt going to be traded. its only a 5th i bet.

pfelix73
04-12-2010, 10:39 AM
Ah, being realistic- I think I used that exact word on another thread and got pasted for using it. I agree though. It was the best thing to do- from what I'm hearing on the local radio stations right now.

Good riddens to Holmes. There was no way there were going to sign him next year, so to deal with him for only 12 games in 2010- wasn't an option for the owners and team.

:tt1

4 game suspension is confirmed for him- just heard via Adam Shefter on ESPN 1250

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 10:45 AM
Ah, being realistic- I think I used that exact word on another thread and got pasted for using it. I agree though. It was the best thing to do- from what I'm hearing on the local radio stations right now.

Good riddens to Holmes. There was no way there were going to sign him next year, so to deal with him for only 12 games in 2010- wasn't an option for the owners and team.

:tt1

4 game suspension is confirmed for him- just heard via Adam Shefter on ESPN 1250

then why not let him play his last season as a steeler? we would get a 3rd round pick for compensation or so. we would also get a very productived 12 games from holmes since he would be playing for a big contract

Oviedo
04-12-2010, 10:52 AM
Obviously, I am more enlightened than you. I actually believe Holmes was worth more than a 5th but you are trying to act haughty. If you and the Rooneys wanted to deal Holmes great. But, get full market. And then you need to trade Ben and Reed...please don't be hypocrites. They have brought great shame on the organization. Lets deal them for a bag of doritos and a future 7th round draft pick.

Come on Shawn, don't fall into the trap that Holmes was traded for being involved in an alleged incident. It went way beyond that.

Holmes is supposedly about to be suspended for 4 games for a drug violation. That means he has been caught twice and one more positive lands him a one year stint with the Toronto Argos. Despite this he twitters that he is still at it.

While he is at it he takes numerous shots at over and over on his twitter account. He is also saying that he wants out after this suspension shortened year.

That is why he is gone. A fifth - yeah thats bad. Hopefully Washington is part of the package. But let us not compare this situation to Ben's. Even Reed is smart enough not to head home to smoke a bowl and tweet after each incident.

Just being haughty and asanine I have to say I agree with you. But then again, you may be emotional and reactionary. Some just don't want to recognized that the drug issue with Holmes is serious and the expiring contract and what he is likelky looking for makes him high risk and other teams aren't going to pay a premium for someone like that.

Is anyone deludded enough to think that Homes is not going to get popped again at a future drug test. If so maybe you are using some of the same stuff he is.

phillyesq
04-12-2010, 11:00 AM
Obviously, I am more enlightened than you. I actually believe Holmes was worth more than a 5th but you are trying to act haughty. If you and the Rooneys wanted to deal Holmes great. But, get full market. And then you need to trade Ben and Reed...please don't be hypocrites. They have brought great shame on the organization. Lets deal them for a bag of doritos and a future 7th round draft pick.

Come on Shawn, don't fall into the trap that Holmes was traded for being involved in an alleged incident. It went way beyond that.

Holmes is supposedly about to be suspended for 4 games for a drug violation. That means he has been caught twice and one more positive lands him a one year stint with the Toronto Argos. Despite this he twitters that he is still at it.

While he is at it he takes numerous shots at over and over on his twitter account. He is also saying that he wants out after this suspension shortened year.

That is why he is gone. A fifth - yeah thats bad. Hopefully Washington is part of the package. But let us not compare this situation to Ben's. Even Reed is smart enough not to head home to smoke a bowl and tweet after each incident.

Just being haughty and asanine I have to say I agree with you. But then again, you may be emotional and reactionary. Some just don't want to recognized that the drug issue with Holmes is serious and the expiring contract and what he is likelky looking for makes him high risk and other teams aren't going to pay a premium for someone like that.

Is anyone deludded enough to think that Homes is not going to get popped again at a future drug test. If so maybe you are using some of the same stuff he is.

Please, please, start all future posts with that line. :lol: :lol:

I agree with both of you guys -- there is a very high likelihood that Holmes will get busted for drugs once again. It wouldn't surprise me if he linked to pictures of himself taking bong hits on twitter. There is also a high likelihood that he falls prey to the many temptations in NYC, and gets himself into another incident at a club.

Oviedo
04-12-2010, 11:05 AM
Obviously, I am more enlightened than you. I actually believe Holmes was worth more than a 5th but you are trying to act haughty. If you and the Rooneys wanted to deal Holmes great. But, get full market. And then you need to trade Ben and Reed...please don't be hypocrites. They have brought great shame on the organization. Lets deal them for a bag of doritos and a future 7th round draft pick.

Come on Shawn, don't fall into the trap that Holmes was traded for being involved in an alleged incident. It went way beyond that.

Holmes is supposedly about to be suspended for 4 games for a drug violation. That means he has been caught twice and one more positive lands him a one year stint with the Toronto Argos. Despite this he twitters that he is still at it.

While he is at it he takes numerous shots at over and over on his twitter account. He is also saying that he wants out after this suspension shortened year.

That is why he is gone. A fifth - yeah thats bad. Hopefully Washington is part of the package. But let us not compare this situation to Ben's. Even Reed is smart enough not to head home to smoke a bowl and tweet after each incident.

Just being haughty and asanine I have to say I agree with you. But then again, you may be emotional and reactionary. Some just don't want to recognized that the drug issue with Holmes is serious and the expiring contract and what he is likelky looking for makes him high risk and other teams aren't going to pay a premium for someone like that.

Is anyone deludded enough to think that Homes is not going to get popped again at a future drug test. If so maybe you are using some of the same stuff he is.

Please, please, start all future posts with that line. :lol: :lol:

I agree with both of you guys -- there is a very high likelihood that Holmes will get busted for drugs once again. It wouldn't surprise me if he linked to pictures of himself taking bong hits on twitter. There is also a high likelihood that he falls prey to the many temptations in NYC, and gets himself into another incident at a club.

Despite being haughty and asanine I will try to comply as best I can. :D

I just wish others can see this as clearly as you. Holmes is one season ending incident waiting to happen but everyone instead chooses to assume they know more or are smarter than the organization. I would consider that a little haughty and asanine on their part wouldn't you?

anger 82&95
04-12-2010, 11:20 AM
Obviously, I am more enlightened than you. I actually believe Holmes was worth more than a 5th but you are trying to act haughty. If you and the Rooneys wanted to deal Holmes great. But, get full market. And then you need to trade Ben and Reed...please don't be hypocrites. They have brought great shame on the organization. Lets deal them for a bag of doritos and a future 7th round draft pick.

Come on Shawn, don't fall into the trap that Holmes was traded for being involved in an alleged incident. It went way beyond that.

Holmes is supposedly about to be suspended for 4 games for a drug violation. That means he has been caught twice and one more positive lands him a one year stint with the Toronto Argos. Despite this he twitters that he is still at it.

While he is at it he takes numerous shots at over and over on his twitter account. He is also saying that he wants out after this suspension shortened year.

That is why he is gone. A fifth - yeah thats bad. Hopefully Washington is part of the package. But let us not compare this situation to Ben's. Even Reed is smart enough not to head home to smoke a bowl and tweet after each incident.

Just being haughty and asanine I have to say I agree with you. But then again, you may be emotional and reactionary. Some just don't want to recognized that the drug issue with Holmes is serious and the expiring contract and what he is likelky looking for makes him high risk and other teams aren't going to pay a premium for someone like that.

Is anyone deludded enough to think that Homes is not going to get popped again at a future drug test. If so maybe you are using some of the same stuff he is.

Please, please, start all future posts with that line. :lol: :lol:

I agree with both of you guys -- there is a very high likelihood that Holmes will get busted for drugs once again. It wouldn't surprise me if he linked to pictures of himself taking bong hits on twitter. There is also a high likelihood that he falls prey to the many temptations in NYC, and gets himself into another incident at a club.

Despite being haughty and asanine I will try to comply as best I can. :D

I just wish others can see this as clearly as you. Holmes is one season ending incident waiting to happen but everyone instead chooses to assume they know more or are smarter than the organization. I would consider that a little haughty and asanine on their part wouldn't you?
Being tremendously asinine- my wife can vouch for veracity- I don’t feel that it’s a capricious move. In fact, it seems that the Rooney’s are recognizing Holmes’s activity as indicative of an intractable personality issue. But a trade to the XFL or WFL would have been better…

Shawn
04-12-2010, 11:23 AM
I honestly don't get it. I don't understand why they couldn't have waited to see what else is out there. I don't think turning the page in two weeks is any different than turning the page today.

I think this move hurts the team, but at least the Rooney's have what they believe is moral high ground (they seem to pick and choose when to stand on that high ground).

Agreed.

Shawn
04-12-2010, 11:24 AM
Obviously, I am more enlightened than you. I actually believe Holmes was worth more than a 5th but you are trying to act haughty. If you and the Rooneys wanted to deal Holmes great. But, get full market. And then you need to trade Ben and Reed...please don't be hypocrites. They have brought great shame on the organization. Lets deal them for a bag of doritos and a future 7th round draft pick.

Come on Shawn, don't fall into the trap that Holmes was traded for being involved in an alleged incident. It went way beyond that.

Holmes is supposedly about to be suspended for 4 games for a drug violation. That means he has been caught twice and one more positive lands him a one year stint with the Toronto Argos. Despite this he twitters that he is still at it.

While he is at it he takes numerous shots at over and over on his twitter account. He is also saying that he wants out after this suspension shortened year.

That is why he is gone. A fifth - yeah thats bad. Hopefully Washington is part of the package. But let us not compare this situation to Ben's. Even Reed is smart enough not to head home to smoke a bowl and tweet after each incident.

Just being haughty and asanine I have to say I agree with you. But then again, you may be emotional and reactionary. Some just don't want to recognized that the drug issue with Holmes is serious and the expiring contract and what he is likelky looking for makes him high risk and other teams aren't going to pay a premium for someone like that.

Is anyone deludded enough to think that Homes is not going to get popped again at a future drug test. If so maybe you are using some of the same stuff he is.

Please, please, start all future posts with that line. :lol: :lol:

I agree with both of you guys -- there is a very high likelihood that Holmes will get busted for drugs once again. It wouldn't surprise me if he linked to pictures of himself taking bong hits on twitter. There is also a high likelihood that he falls prey to the many temptations in NYC, and gets himself into another incident at a club.

Despite being haughty and asanine I will try to comply as best I can. :D

I just wish others can see this as clearly as you. Holmes is one season ending incident waiting to happen but everyone instead chooses to assume they know more or are smarter than the organization. I would consider that a little haughty and asanine on their part wouldn't you?

Can I add being a jackasc to your list of loveable qualities? :lol:

Shawn
04-12-2010, 11:25 AM
I think old man Dan is dipping a little too much in the Irish whiskey.

I think you are correct.

SteelAbility
04-12-2010, 11:28 AM
I think old man Dan is dipping a little too much in the Irish whiskey.

I think you are correct.

Dan Rooney ... the new Al Davis! :wink: Open cheek. Extract tongue. :P

SteelerOfDeVille
04-12-2010, 11:28 AM
Chadman's thinking- it has a lot to do with the fact that, charged or not, Ben is about to spark a whole new batch of critisism for his antics this off season. The team is already disrupted as a result. Holmes acting like a douche adds to that.

As Chadman pointed out a few days back- both Ben & Holmes' trade value was shot because of their legal trouble. The Steelers were never going to get 'fair market value' for these guys. Every team in the NFL must know that the Steelers were not going to allow this to continue- some teams must have expected the Steelers to dump one, if not both. All these things, coupled with the suspension, the fact that one more strike equals a year off & Holmes is in the last year of his contract & will need to be paid soon- mean that the trade value was greatly diminished to what we, as fans, would hope for. Could the Steelers have gotten more? Yeah, probably. Maybe a 4th...perhaps even a 3rd if someone was really desperate.

But here's one other way to look at 'value'- if, 6 years ago, you were told you could spend a 1st round pick plus a couple of other picks on a player, and the return was 2 SB victories- but the catch was he would have to be traded for less value than what he's worth as his contract gets close to winding up- would you have still drafted that player?
I think you're spot on, Chadman... the last thing they want is to become the Bengals or some team with a bad reputation...with both of them being in trouble, one had to go -- and frankly, it wasn't gonna be Ben.

Shawn
04-12-2010, 11:29 AM
I honestly don't get it. I don't understand why they couldn't have waited to see what else is out there. I don't think turning the page in two weeks is any different than turning the page today.

I think this move hurts the team, but at least the Rooney's have what they believe is moral high ground (they seem to pick and choose when to stand on that high ground).

When you own the team you can pick and choose whatever you want.

So we can't even discuss it? What a great response.... I don't agree with your opinion so I'll dust off the old "if you owned the team" cliche. Weak.

Forgive O...he is merely a jackasc who is haughty with ignorant and asinine reasoning skills. :lol:

Dee Dub
04-12-2010, 11:53 AM
Yep...I question the saintly Rooneys. :shock: I get the fact that they wanted to deal Holmes even if I don't agree. I get the fact that they wanted to unload some baggage rather than allow Holmes to play for a big contract this season. I get that they were trying to save some of their image.

With that said, what in the heck were they thinking by trading him for a 5th? They just wanted to dump him...great at least shop him. Did they purposely have to screw themselves to send a message? Nah...they were pissed and they felt disrespected. So, they dumped him to the first offer.

So tell me why they couldn't have waited until draft day or beyond to make a more equitable trade?

Emotional...Reactionary


Personally Shawn I think you are the one who is being emotional here. And I am willing to bet that after all this subsides a bit...you will come to your senses and see that this was the right thing to do. And it aint nearly as bad as you think it is.

I thin k this is going to be an addition by subtraction for the Steelers.

papillon
04-12-2010, 01:21 PM
Chadman's thinking- it has a lot to do with the fact that, charged or not, Ben is about to spark a whole new batch of critisism for his antics this off season. The team is already disrupted as a result. Holmes acting like a douche adds to that.

As Chadman pointed out a few days back- both Ben & Holmes' trade value was shot because of their legal trouble. The Steelers were never going to get 'fair market value' for these guys. Every team in the NFL must know that the Steelers were not going to allow this to continue- some teams must have expected the Steelers to dump one, if not both. All these things, coupled with the suspension, the fact that one more strike equals a year off & Holmes is in the last year of his contract & will need to be paid soon- mean that the trade value was greatly diminished to what we, as fans, would hope for. Could the Steelers have gotten more? Yeah, probably. Maybe a 4th...perhaps even a 3rd if someone was really desperate.

But here's one other way to look at 'value'- if, 6 years ago, you were told you could spend a 1st round pick plus a couple of other picks on a player, and the return was 2 SB victories- but the catch was he would have to be traded for less value than what he's worth as his contract gets close to winding up- would you have still drafted that player?
I think you're spot on, Chadman... the last thing they want is to become the Bengals or some team with a bad reputation...with both of them being in trouble, one had to go -- and frankly, it wasn't gonna be Ben.

That may all depend on what happens at 2:00PM EST today.

Pappy

Shawn
04-12-2010, 06:42 PM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.

Good point. I bet the 5th was the best anyone would give. I'm sure they did due dilligence to see what they could get.

Now that I think about it, they could have at least traded him to some team in the NFC, preferably a weaker team. Instead they just strengthened a potential rival for a SB spot.

no kidding!! thinking about rosters off the top of my head the jets are going to be the team to beat in the afc. an older sanchez, dominant defense, the best running game in the nfl and now we give them another weapon at WR!!! brilliant!! excellent move by the rooneys. morals values rah rah rah!!

i admire the rooneys for having a stance and sticking with it. no nonsense bs from players like holmes. i agree with it and i like it. however when decisions like this hurt your team then its a problem. i find it very hard to believe we couldnt do better than a 5th. washington isnt going to be traded. its only a 5th i bet.

Yo Frank...I thought you were against judging the decisions of the FO. We need some consistancy from you. You are better than this.

I am very truly yours,

Shawn

hawaiiansteel
04-12-2010, 09:40 PM
Steelers angered, embarrassed by players’ missteps

By ALAN ROBINSON AP Sports Writer


PITTSBURGH(AP)—The six-time Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers don’t like losing - or being embarrassed. To a family owned team, image is more than an attractive logo.

So when the Steelers were humiliated on the same day by two star players who, only 15 months before, teamed to provide one of the franchise’s most memorable moments, they reacted without their usual deliberation and with an uncommon bit of anger.

Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger(notes) is apparently off the hook legally for his alleged sexual assault in Georgia, but his troubles aren’t over. He must meet with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, possibly as early as this week, and could be fined or suspended under the league’s conduct policy.

There are more issues, too, for a franchise quarterback who won the Super Bowl twice in his first five NFL seasons.

Team president Art Rooney II, known to be frustrated and exasperated with Roethlisberger’s lack of maturity and judgment, said the quarterback must win back his teammates and his city. Maybe ownership, too.

“During the past few weeks, I have met with Ben on a number of occasions, not only to discuss this incident, but also to discuss his commitment to making sure this never happens again,” Rooney said in a statement. “The Pittsburgh Steelers take the conduct of players and staff very seriously. Ben will now have to work hard to earn back the respect and trust of Steelers fans, and to live up to the leadership responsibilities we all expect of him.”

Following the Goodell-Roethlisberger meeting, Rooney said, the Steelers “will determine the next steps in the process.”

There will be no next step with Santonio Holmes.

Holmes, who caught the Roethlisberger pass that secured the Super Bowl victory over Arizona in February 2009, was traded Sunday night to the New York Jets for a fifth-round draft pick after the Steelers learned he would suspended four games for violating the NFL’s substance abuse policy.

Holmes already had provoked the Steelers on multiple occasions. After being accused in a lawsuit of throwing a drink on a woman at an Orlando nightclub, Holmes answered with a long string of comments on his Twitter account in which he suggested a fan should try to kill himself and other tweets that detailed the player’s love of partying.

Only last month, coach Mike Tomlin said the Steelers’ standards for their players “are above and beyond that of our peers.”

That’s why, as a district attorney outlined Monday in great detail the embarrassing specifics of the nightclub incident involving Roethlisberger and his alleged victim in Milledgeville, Ga., the Steelers clearly were furious over their star’s conduct and the damage the allegations caused them and their reputation.

On a long and troubling day for one of professional sports’ most successful franchises, only Roethlisberger spoke publicly, reading a 74-second-long statement in which he expressed regret but did not take any questions.

Roethlisberger also read a statement last summer after a civil suit was brought in Nevada brought by a woman who accused him of assaulting her in a Lake Tahoe hotel in 2008.

Then, Tomlin and director of football operations Kevin Colbert immediately stood behind Roethlisberger in an apparent show of support. On Monday night, neither was present, and neither said a word about his situation.

“I’m truly sorry for the disappointment and negative attention I brought to my family, my teammates, coaches, the Rooneys and the NFL,” a visibly nervous Roethlisberger said in his first public comments since the incident. “I understand that the opportunities I have been blessed with are a privilege, and much is expected of me as the quarterback of the Pittsburgh Steelers.”

Hours before, prosecutor Fred Bright lectured Roethlisberger at the same time he detailed why he will not prosecute him.

“Grow up,” Bright said. “Grow up, cut it out … You need to be a role model for your team, your city, the NFL. You can do better.”

The Steelers’ message likely was much firmer: Three strikes, and you’ll be out, regardless of your success and a $102 million contract that is only about half paid off.

Holmes, whose ability and production were upstaged by his frequent off-field troubles, was cast off to the Jets for the 155th pick in the upcoming draft - minimal compensation for an accomplished receiver. Clearly, the Steelers’ main goal was to cut ties with him. Quickly.

The Orlando incident followed a one-game suspension two years ago, after Pittsburgh police detected marijuana had been used in his car, and two others involving disorderly conduct in Florida and allegations of domestic violence in Ohio.

“We believe the move is in the best interests of the Pittsburgh Steelers,” Colbert said.

How soon they forget.

While Holmes’ gear remains behind in the Steelers’ locker room, the nameplate above his locker already has been removed.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...rsroethlisberg

frankthetank1
04-12-2010, 09:49 PM
I think the Rooney's want today to be the day that we turn the page. When Ben is not charged later today, they don't want to continue to deal with Santonio past that point. I get that. I also agree that the Rooneys want to make sure that the team understands that they will not tolerate "me first" players that constantly make off the field mistakes. I think waiting until the draft may have been too long to send the message. But, certainly dangling him for a day or two more wouldn't have made much difference. I believe that the Rooneys made the right decision for the right reasons. However, it was unfortunate that they sent Holmes to just the sort of opportunity that he wanted and that we didn't get a little more in return.

Good point. I bet the 5th was the best anyone would give. I'm sure they did due dilligence to see what they could get.

Now that I think about it, they could have at least traded him to some team in the NFC, preferably a weaker team. Instead they just strengthened a potential rival for a SB spot.

no kidding!! thinking about rosters off the top of my head the jets are going to be the team to beat in the afc. an older sanchez, dominant defense, the best running game in the nfl and now we give them another weapon at WR!!! brilliant!! excellent move by the rooneys. morals values rah rah rah!!

i admire the rooneys for having a stance and sticking with it. no nonsense bs from players like holmes. i agree with it and i like it. however when decisions like this hurt your team then its a problem. i find it very hard to believe we couldnt do better than a 5th. washington isnt going to be traded. its only a 5th i bet.

Yo Frank...I thought you were against judging the decisions of the FO. We need some consistancy from you. You are better than this.

I am very truly yours,

Shawn

there have been a lot of decisions by the FO i havent agreed with. a 5th round pick is crap i know that, but holmes doesnt have much value. the rooneys have morals and standards which i agree with and i have a lot of respect for that. if holmes could pass a drug test this would be a non issue.

to be honest i am loving this move more and more. eff holmes we can replace him. this sends a message. any player who wants to act like a retard, carry on like a jacka$$, get arressted etc. will not be playing for the steelers. say what you want, agree with it or not you have to respect that a lot