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steeler_george
04-10-2010, 05:27 PM
Quick recap

Simmons, at one point was great then we saw the demise with the injuries.

Say hello Stapleton, was like a big fresh of air. As we got use to that fresh air it started to seem just normal and nothing special. But we did win Superbowl with him. Injury led to IR which led him to the unemployment line.

Essex, the jack of all trades on the OL, soon took over, played well at times but average at times. With him starting at RG, who took the jack of all trades reserve role on the team?

Foster, an undrafted rookie tackle, Played well and would say just as good as Essex.

Now how could an undrafted player like Foster beat out our 2009 3rd pick Urbick? Was he better? Or did the jack of all trades role win him playing time at RG?

Which leads up to the question "Who's going to be our RG next year?"

Is Essex the man again?
Is Foster just a Essex clone, a good OL swingman?
Is Urbik going to catch up to speed with the NFL and live up to his draft position?

or

Via draft, Iupati, Pouncey, or future starting tackle ( switch Colon inside)?

Place your bets...It is going to be very interesting.

WoodleyofTroy
04-10-2010, 05:37 PM
Hopefully with Urbik it was more to do with the Steelers not giving their draft picks much of a chance in year one, oppose to "being ready". Because you'd expect a guy from Wisconsin's OL to be more pro ready than any.

Indeed it will be interesting though.

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 05:49 PM
Hopefully with Urbik it was more to do with the Steelers not giving their draft picks much of a chance in year one, oppose to "being ready". Because you'd expect a guy from Wisconsin's OL to be more pro ready than any.

Indeed it will be interesting though.
I see Essex starting next to Pouncey next year and i think that Essex will look way above average in that situation.

WoodleyofTroy
04-10-2010, 05:51 PM
Yeah I think Pouncey at Center would improve whomever at Guard, but there is a possibility that he'd be playing Guard himself in year one, until Hartwig is phased out.

hawaiiansteel
04-10-2010, 06:41 PM
Hopefully with Urbik it was more to do with the Steelers not giving their draft picks much of a chance in year one, oppose to "being ready". Because you'd expect a guy from Wisconsin's OL to be more pro ready than any.

Indeed it will be interesting though.


March 9, 2010, 2:49 PM
State of the Steelers: What the 2009 Film Revealed


Offense

No quarterback has better physical tools than Ben Roethlisberger (assuming he will be allowed to play next season). Heís known for his sandlot skills, but last season Roethlisberger also proved sharp in the presnap game. What really stood out was his chemistry with the smooth tight end Heath Miller and the wide receiving corps. Hines Ward was his usual self. Santonio Holmes was arguably the best route runner in football (noteworthy considering how flawed he was in this department as a rookie and sophomore). Mike Wallace showed star potential. So did running back Rashard Mendenhall, with his fluid yet powerful downhill burst. The offensive line was spectacular at times and seemingly absent-minded at others. RT Willie Colon was the most reliable all-around blocker. Power from mobility made LG Chris Kemoeatu the teamís most valuable lineman.

Defense

The loss of Troy Polamalu meant everything. Without him, the secondary was no longer adept at disguising coverages or cloaking unfavorable matchups. Also, the run defense became overly reliant on the inside linebackers, which isnít the worst thing but, as Pittsburgh discovered, isnít ideal. Casey Hampton was a monster. Few nose tackles have his lateral quickness and leverage. LaMarr Woodley was a first-class star, even though he didnít draw the attention that James Harrison did. Both players were dominant against the run. Still, it wasnít enough to compensate for the secondaryís crippling inconsistencies.


Top 5 Needs

1. Cornerback

Ike Taylor is fantastic, but heís it. William Gay is a liability as a starter, and nickel back Deshea Townsend should only be re-signed as a last resort.


2. Outside Linebacker

Woodley and Harrison are top five OLBs, but their backups, Andre Frazier and Patrick Bailey, are undrafted young veterans with minimal experience.

3. Safety

The speedy Ryan Clark was granted his wish to return, but the versatile Tyrone Carter will probably leave. That leaves the third-year pro Ryan Mundy as the primary backup. Anyone who saw the Raider game last season knows Mundy isnít ready. He lacks elite athleticism anyway. The newcomer Will Allen was signed primarily for special teams.

4. Offensive Lineman

The starting five is set, but with last yearís third-round rookie Kraig Urbik being a disappointment, depth is a question.

5. Defensive End

The free agent Travis Kirschke is probably gone. Last yearís first-round pick Ziggy Hood is raw but can replace him. Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel are in their 30s, but neither is slowing down (assuming Smith is healthy). That said, depth could be an issue, and the future must be planned at some point.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010 ... -revealed/ (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/state-of-the-steelers-what-the-2009-film-revealed/)

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 06:45 PM
umm i appeciate the article.. but have to disagree.
we've given up close to 150 sacks the last 3 seasons.
the writer didn't even mention how big the smith loss was.
it doesn't seem like he even watched a game, let alone the last three seasons.

hawaiiansteel
04-10-2010, 06:49 PM
umm i appeciate the article.. but have to disagree.
we've given up close to 150 sacks the last 3 seasons.
the writer didn't even mention how big the smith loss was.
it doesn't seem like he even watched a game, let alone the last three seasons.



do you believe any of the 5 starters on the OL to be as bad as Willie Gay is as a starting CB?

Discipline of Steel
04-10-2010, 06:51 PM
Its got to be Urbik, he was chosen for that spot. Hopefully Kuggs can help him realize his potential this year.

hawaiiansteel
04-10-2010, 06:55 PM
Its got to be Urbik, he was chosen for that spot. Hopefully Kuggs can help him realize his potential this year.



Bruce Davis was chosen in the 3rd round to provide us depth at the OLB position and that didn't work out too well either.

Kraig Urbik was a major disappointment last season, right now he is behind Essex and Foster on the depth chart and another rookie is going to be drafted there so Urbik may well be fighting for a roster spot let alone a starting position.

Sugar
04-10-2010, 07:48 PM
umm i appeciate the article.. but have to disagree.
we've given up close to 150 sacks the last 3 seasons.
the writer didn't even mention how big the smith loss was.
it doesn't seem like he even watched a game, let alone the last three seasons.



do you believe any of the 5 starters on the OL to be as bad as Willie Gay is as a starting CB?

The answer is NO my friend. Gay is, IMO, the worst starter on the team.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-10-2010, 07:58 PM
IMHO, out of the group on the roster, by far it should be Ramon Foster. Actually Foster should start at RT and Colon should be bumped in to RG.

In 2007, with Foster at RT, the Vols QB attempted 519 pass attempts and was sacked 3 times.

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 09:17 PM
umm i appeciate the article.. but have to disagree.
we've given up close to 150 sacks the last 3 seasons.
the writer didn't even mention how big the smith loss was.
it doesn't seem like he even watched a game, let alone the last three seasons.



do you believe any of the 5 starters on the OL to be as bad as Willie Gay is as a starting CB?
I already know that Hartwig ststistically is one of the worst centers in the NFL. I also know, that he doesn't have two young talented guys waiting in the wings to take his spot...

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 09:19 PM
IMHO, out of the group on the roster, by far it should be Ramon Foster. Actually Foster should start at RT and Colon should be bumped in to RG.

In 2007, with Foster at RT, the Vols QB attempted 519 pass attempts and was sacked 3 times.
Why move one of the better RT to guard? a position he has NEVER played. a position that coaches and scouts feel that he isn't suited for. a position that only arm chair quarterbacks on message boards even wants him to play.

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 09:20 PM
umm i appeciate the article.. but have to disagree.
we've given up close to 150 sacks the last 3 seasons.
the writer didn't even mention how big the smith loss was.
it doesn't seem like he even watched a game, let alone the last three seasons.



do you believe any of the 5 starters on the OL to be as bad as Willie Gay is as a starting CB?

The answer is NO my friend. Gay is, IMO, the worst starter on the team.
you would have a viable arguement if the best two players on the offense were hurt (like troy and aaron last year). Hartwig sucked for two years regardless of who played next to him.

frankthetank1
04-10-2010, 09:27 PM
umm i appeciate the article.. but have to disagree.
we've given up close to 150 sacks the last 3 seasons.
the writer didn't even mention how big the smith loss was.
it doesn't seem like he even watched a game, let alone the last three seasons.



do you believe any of the 5 starters on the OL to be as bad as Willie Gay is as a starting CB?

The answer is NO my friend. Gay is, IMO, the worst starter on the team.
you would have a viable arguement if the best two players on the offense were hurt (like troy and aaron last year). Hartwig sucked for two years regardless of who played next to him.

i also think gay is by far the worst starter on the team. it shouldnt make any difference if troy or smith were hurt players are still responsible for doing their job. gay was picked on consistently in every game.i wouldnt say hartwig sucks. he is very average but sucks is a bit harsh. sean mahan i would say sucked.

pfelix73
04-10-2010, 11:06 PM
Why is it so hard for the majority of the fans on this board to understand that the OL is set like the article says? Because of the sacks? Come on. There's more to it than the OL. Not having a FB, poor OL blocking schemes, and Ben being Ben are 3 reasons that contributed to a majority of those sacks. Sure the OL should take some blame- BUT NOT ALL OF IT. This is reality, so just get on board- why? Because this is a young OL and the coaches are the ones who set the depth charts. This subject was the same thing that many of you were talking about last year at this time and when push came to shove everything in August stayed the same except that Stapleton got hurt and Essex was awarded the starting RG spot. So, barring any injuries in 2010, the OL is already in place.

There is plenty of depth at the interior positions with Foster, Urbik, and Legursky. We have Hills and the new vet that was brought in from Buffalo at OT. If there is any position that might need another player for depth it would be OT, because the jury is out on Hills. That leaves not much room for any rookie. Don't look for many OL to be taken and to be honest, the ONLY way I'd take Pouncey would be if he slid down to us in the 2nd round.

Other than that, draft CB's, DL, and LB's, all day long and throw in a OT, RB and maybe a WR as well.


Oh, and the answer to the question on this thread is very simple- Essex. He's already #1 on the depth chart going into camp. Barring injury, I seriously doubt he loses it.
:tt1

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 11:13 PM
Why is it so hard for the majority of the fans on this board to understand that the OL is set like the article says? Because of the sacks? Come on. There's more to it than the OL. Not having a FB, poor OL blocking schemes, and Ben being Ben are 3 reasons that contributed to a majority of those sacks. Sure the OL should take some blame- BUT NOT ALL OF IT. This is reality, so just get on board- why? Because this is a young OL and the coaches are the ones who set the depth charts. This subject was the same thing that many of you were talking about last year at this time and when push came to shove everything in August stayed the same except that Stapleton got hurt and Essex was awarded the starting RG spot. So, barring any injuries in 2010, the OL is already in place.

There is plenty of depth at the interior positions with Foster, Urbik, and Legursky. We have Hills and the new vet that was brought in from Buffalo at OT. If there is any position that might need another player for depth it would be OT, because the jury is out on Hills. That leaves not much room for any rookie. Don't look for many OL to be taken and to be honest, the ONLY way I'd take Pouncey would be if he slid down to us in the 2nd round.

Other than that, draft CB's, DL, and LB's, all day long and throw in a OT, RB and maybe a WR as well.


Oh, and the answer to the question on this thread is very simple- Essex. He's already #1 on the depth chart going into camp. Barring injury, I seriously doubt he loses it.
:tt1
why is it hard for the majority to buy what that crap article wrote? well, because frankly, like most articles written about the steelers, it was crap. i don't even think the writer watched a game for the past two years.
i think, it's probably the fact that Hartwig has rated as the worst center in the league last year and was pretty damn terrible the year before. ANYONE who has WATCHED the steelers, unlike the writer of said article, would agree with me.

pfelix73
04-10-2010, 11:38 PM
The coaching staff knows their players the best- not us just because we watch a 16 game season. After all, they are the ones who get paid the bucks to evaluate their players 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

IF Hartwig was so bad at Center last year, as you are saying, then why wouldn't a change be made? Say Legursky? Why? Because Hartwig is the #1 Center on the depth chart and he isn't as bad as a lot of you think he is. He's there for a reason, and he's not taken off the depth chart that just because some stats who come from wherever say something else- which, by the way, is totally crap anyway. The Steelers would have their own stats internally, and could be totally different than what's floating on the internet. Again, have you ever played along the OL? Do you know what all goes on up there? I bet not. Simply- There are schemes that the coaches put in for game planning, etc. Note that we have a new OL coach now and new schemes will be developed by him now. Furthermore, we also have a QB that likes to run around and make plays, etc. and that's great. It means a few more sacks- so be it.

I'll go by what the coaching staff does, rather than what a bunch of fans on here or a Mel Kiper who probably has never even played a down of football in his life try to decide whats in the best interests for the OL-- Again, all I ask is that you guys deal with the reality that the OL is already set, barring injuries.

Answer me this:

Say we draft Iupati. Who do we cut?

These players are set:

Starks
Kemo
Hartwig
Essex
Colon
Urbik
Foster
Legursky
New Vet that signed-

that's 9 already and that leaves out Hills Usually, the 53 man roster has 9, I believe. or around there.

Urbik was a 3rd rounder, Foster has playing experience and is a good young lineman, Legursky played well too and now has experience.. Again, I don't see us using a high draft pick on a OL. If Pouncey would fall, then he'd be worth it, but not at 18- NO Way.
:tt1

Shawn
04-10-2010, 11:43 PM
I think most of us are hoping Urbik finally lives up to the expectations. If he really is that bad...Iupati is a real possibility.

pfelix73
04-10-2010, 11:50 PM
Well true- that would be the weak link possibly, but man would it be difficult to cut a 3rd rounder after just 2 years. Again, it's just reality and a numbers thing. I just don;t see where a high round OL fits in to the depth chart. That would be a waste to cut Urbik a 3rd round pick over say Iupati or Pouncey. If that's the case, then what can we say for those picking the players? We've already got a 2nd rounder in Sweed possibly on the way out...not to mention some others in the past.

Again, I just don't see a high round pick being used for an interior OL. And IF they did use the 18th pick on say Iupati or Pouncey then they are already giving in to a possible mistake on picking Urbik. That would be embarrassing at this point.
:tt1

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 12:22 AM
The coaching staff knows their players the best- not us just because we watch a 16 game season. After all, they are the ones who get paid the bucks to evaluate their players 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

IF Hartwig was so bad at Center last year, as you are saying, then why wouldn't a change be made? Say Legursky? Why? Because Hartwig is the #1 Center on the depth chart and he isn't as bad as a lot of you think he is. He's there for a reason, and he's not taken off the depth chart that just because some stats who come from wherever say something else- which, by the way, is totally crap anyway. The Steelers would have their own stats internally, and could be totally different than what's floating on the internet. Again, have you ever played along the OL? Do you know what all goes on up there? I bet not. Simply- There are schemes that the coaches put in for game planning, etc. Note that we have a new OL coach now and new schemes will be developed by him now. Furthermore, we also have a QB that likes to run around and make plays, etc. and that's great. It means a few more sacks- so be it.

I'll go by what the coaching staff does, rather than what a bunch of fans on here or a Mel Kiper who probably has never even played a down of football in his life try to decide whats in the best interests for the OL-- Again, all I ask is that you guys deal with the reality that the OL is already set, barring injuries.

Answer me this:

Say we draft Iupati. Who do we cut?

These players are set:

Starks
Kemo
Hartwig
Essex
Colon
Urbik
Foster
Legursky
New Vet that signed-

that's 9 already and that leaves out Hills Usually, the 53 man roster has 9, I believe. or around there.

Urbik was a 3rd rounder, Foster has playing experience and is a good young lineman, Legursky played well too and now has experience.. Again, I don't see us using a high draft pick on a OL. If Pouncey would fall, then he'd be worth it, but not at 18- NO Way.
:tt1
maybe legursky is as much of a bum as hartwig. You can't polish a turd, and hartwig is a turd. Plus you have to realize that legursky was more of a swing man, and helped provie depth at guard. Hartwig didn't. Just cus a guy starts doesn't mean he's any good.

NJ-STEELER
04-11-2010, 03:43 AM
you dont see harwig getting pushed back and beaten pretty much all season, then i question how much you do watch. and i'm not even a big seperate watcher of the OL.


do you think the steeler coaches are gonna come out and throw the OL under the bus when they have no capable replacement?

maybe his injury (had off season shoulder surgery) had something to do with it and i'm hoping a new blcoking scheme helps the run game and pass protection, but i'm thinking there's a reason why another NFL team waived a vet center

Discipline of Steel
04-11-2010, 07:55 AM
you dont see harwig getting pushed back and beaten pretty much all season, then i question how much you do watch. and i'm not even a big seperate watcher of the OL.


do you think the steeler coaches are gonna come out and throw the OL under the bus when they have no capable replacement?

maybe his injury (had off season shoulder surgery) had something to do with it and i'm hoping a new blcoking scheme helps the run game and pass protection, but i'm thinking there's a reason why another NFL team waived a vet center

The reality of it is...Hartwig was cut because Carolina spent a high draft pick on a new center, so the scenario has already played out with him once.

Some here have already labelled Urbik as the next Bruce Davis and are willing to junk him after a redshirt freshman season. Shoot, if we are going to be that short sighted, why didnt we just dump him last September when that article came out saying he was a disappointment in camp?? Is there no chance he could yet turn out to be a good player?? At this point, are we in this forum really in a position to say the team made a terrible pick with him? The body of work just isnt there for us to give up already on our second pick in last years draft, IMHO. And no, Ramon Foster does not mean we NEED to spend our first round pick on the RG position. If anything, it indicates we should look to solidify another position with less depth, such as our defensive backfield where I would be much more willing to grade Ryan Mundy and Willie Gay as washouts since they have had their chances on the playing field.

Chadman
04-11-2010, 09:41 AM
Some interesting arguments have been put forward here.

Ok, so many of you know that Chadman has Iupati at the top of his draft list, so perhaps Chadman's view could be slightly skewed, but..

If you are going to say we don't need to upgrade the OG position, because the Steelers drafted Urbik last season- be consistant. We don't need to draft a CB either, because of Lewis & Burnett. And certainly no need for a Jared Odrick- we have Hood & Harris. Just re-signed Ryan Clark- there goes the need for a Safety.

In fact, it seems every position is filled. Let's trade this years draft picks away for a couple of 1st rounders in next years draft. :D

If you are going to argue that the D-Backs have shown nothing & need upgrading- better add the OL to your list of 'shown nothing'.

If Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Essex & Colon being retained, and Legursky, Foster, Hills & Urbik still being on the roster means there isn't a need on the OL, then having Taylor, Gay, Burnett, Lewis, Williams, Maddison, Clark, Mundy, Polamalu & Allen proves that last years starters are all in place & there are no vacancies in the D-Backfield, so don't draft a DB.

If you are going to argue that Gay sucked, and therefore we need a new CB, then Essex sucked, and we need a new RG. What's that? We have Urbik? Oh- well we have Burnett & Lewis too- we should be ok then, using that theory.


:stirpot

In Chadman's opinion- Iupati is an upgrade on all the other options at RG. It's that simple. Drafting him, makes RG better. Does it mean Urbik is a wash-out? Nope. But it means Chadman is going to use the fact that the 3rd round pick not being able to beat out the undrafted rookie for playing time, is not an indication of future greatness- much like how all those in favour of drafting a CB must feel that Burnett & Lewis not beating out Gay proves they are wasted draft picks.

It's all about getting better. Iupati serves that purpose- and also goes some way to fulfilling both Mike Tomlin & Dan Rooney's desire to improve the running game, without spending a 2nd 1st round pick on a RB.

AkronSteel
04-11-2010, 10:37 AM
I would love to see Urbik step up and take the RG position this year! It would allow Essex to move back to swing tackle and it would give the team the oppurtunity to have Foster be a more universal backup who could play all positions except C. I would like to see an OL next year that looks like this

LT - Max Starks
LG- Chris Kemoeatu
C- Maurkice Pouncey
RG- Kraig Urbik
RT- Willie Colon

Backups:
Trai Essex
Ramon Foster
Justin Hartwig
Jonathan Scott

That would be a solid bunch and a definite upgrade over what the team has had for a few years. We just need Urbik to step up and Pouncey to fall to us in the draft. I fully believe that if Pouncey is available at #18, that is who we are taking!!

:2c

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 12:25 PM
see chadman that's why I say center is a smart move. I am consistent! I don't think we give up on the kids at corner OR Guard.
though, I'm of the opinion if a VETERAN sucks (such as hartwig) and has SUCKED for multiple seasons (such as hartwig) then he needs replaced.
I don't have pouncey at the top of my draft list.. he's just gonna be teh best player on it when we draft...

Discipline of Steel
04-11-2010, 01:20 PM
Its true Chadman, we have players at every position and the draft goal should be to grab whatever quality players fall to us, with a few positions in mind. I agree interior OL should be a prioritized unit as well as defensive backfield. The reason I put a little more emphasis on DBs is because there can sometimes be up to 6 on the field at a time and if one guy sucks, he will get picked on. There are never more than 3 interior lineman on the field ever, so we dont need as much quality depth there.

Speaking of depth, at least there is still hope for Essex, Legursky, Foster, and Urbik to become good players, only Hartwig needs to move on soon. Out of the Dbs you mentioned, Gay is a downgrade, Madison and Mundy need to disappear, and i dont know who Williams is. That leaves us only 6 players with real potential, counting Will Allen.

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 01:29 PM
Its true Chadman, we have players at every position and the draft goal should be to grab whatever quality players fall to us, with a few positions in mind. I agree interior OL should be a prioritized unit as well as defensive backfield. The reason I put a little more emphasis on DBs is because there can sometimes be up to 6 on the field at a time and if one guy sucks, he will get picked on. There are never more than 3 interior lineman on the field ever, so we dont need as much quality depth there.

Speaking of depth, at least there is still hope for Essex, Legursky, Foster, and Urbik to become good players, only Hartwig needs to move on soon. Out of the Dbs you mentioned, Gay is a downgrade, Madison and Mundy need to disappear, and i dont know who Williams is. That leaves us only 6 players with real potential, counting Will Allen.
you're arguement is flawed. you say there may be 6 db's on the field at a time so it's more important to upgrade that... WHAT!!! for a handful of snaps we should reach for a guy? you ralize that, even though there are only three interior O lineman, they are on the field for EVERY snap! not just a handful of situations!

Discipline of Steel
04-11-2010, 03:33 PM
Its true Chadman, we have players at every position and the draft goal should be to grab whatever quality players fall to us, with a few positions in mind. I agree interior OL should be a prioritized unit as well as defensive backfield. The reason I put a little more emphasis on DBs is because there can sometimes be up to 6 on the field at a time and if one guy sucks, he will get picked on. There are never more than 3 interior lineman on the field ever, so we dont need as much quality depth there.

Speaking of depth, at least there is still hope for Essex, Legursky, Foster, and Urbik to become good players, only Hartwig needs to move on soon. Out of the Dbs you mentioned, Gay is a downgrade, Madison and Mundy need to disappear, and i dont know who Williams is. That leaves us only 6 players with real potential, counting Will Allen.
you're arguement is flawed. you say there may be 6 db's on the field at a time so it's more important to upgrade that... WHAT!!! for a handful of snaps we should reach for a guy? you ralize that, even though there are only three interior O lineman, they are on the field for EVERY snap! not just a handful of situations!

In the 'pass happy' NFL, there are more than a handful of play where you need 5 or 6 DBs. So my (admittedly unclear) point was that, barring injuries, we rely on our backup DBs more often than the backup Olinemen. We seemed to be particularly bad in those situations last year, esp when Troy went down. So that indicates to me that we didnt have the quality depth. On the other hand, the O had a statistically good year which means to me that the Oline functioned more adequately as a unit.

Getting a top DB will not only resolve the hole in the starting lineup, we will have better players in the game in nickel and dime.

Getting a top OG will only improve one position where the backups (hopefully) never get in the game.

For that reason, I would guess we fill another area of need with our first pick and give the RG position to the winner of Urbik/Foster/Essex in camp.

ps...Pouncey or Iupati would be more of a reach at 18 than say Thomas or Wilson. So who said we would be reaching?

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 03:41 PM
[quote="Discipline of Steel":kqqvhgs4]Its true Chadman, we have players at every position and the draft goal should be to grab whatever quality players fall to us, with a few positions in mind. I agree interior OL should be a prioritized unit as well as defensive backfield. The reason I put a little more emphasis on DBs is because there can sometimes be up to 6 on the field at a time and if one guy sucks, he will get picked on. There are never more than 3 interior lineman on the field ever, so we dont need as much quality depth there.

Speaking of depth, at least there is still hope for Essex, Legursky, Foster, and Urbik to become good players, only Hartwig needs to move on soon. Out of the Dbs you mentioned, Gay is a downgrade, Madison and Mundy need to disappear, and i dont know who Williams is. That leaves us only 6 players with real potential, counting Will Allen.
you're arguement is flawed. you say there may be 6 db's on the field at a time so it's more important to upgrade that... WHAT!!! for a handful of snaps we should reach for a guy? you ralize that, even though there are only three interior O lineman, they are on the field for EVERY snap! not just a handful of situations!

In the 'pass happy' NFL, there are more than a handful of play where you need 5 or 6 DBs. So my (admittedly unclear) point was that, barring injuries, we rely on our backup DBs more often than the backup Olinemen. We seemed to be particularly bad in those situations last year, esp when Troy went down. So that indicates to me that we didnt have the quality depth. On the other hand, the O had a statistically good year which means to me that the Oline functioned more adequately as a unit.

Getting a top DB will not only resolve the hole in the starting lineup, we will have better players in the game in nickel and dime.

Getting a top OG will only improve one position where the backups (hopefully) never get in the game.[/quote:kqqvhgs4]
my problem isn't with the backups. it's with the starters. starting interior lineman are on the field every play. and dn't for a minute try to tell me that we run a nickel or dime more than our base defense (which only has two safeties and two corners). and btw none of our db's rated as the worst at their position (the way hartwig did).

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 03:42 PM
and you can't seriously think that back up db is more important than a starting center....

Discipline of Steel
04-11-2010, 04:02 PM
and you can't seriously think that back up db is more important than a starting center....

I dont think replacing Hartwig is more of a priority than replacing Willie Gay in the starting lineup. Pass defense was a problem last year while our O rolled up the stats.

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 04:28 PM
and you can't seriously think that back up db is more important than a starting center....

I dont think replacing Hartwig is more of a priority than replacing Willie Gay in the starting lineup. Pass defense was a problem last year while our O rolled up the stats.
stats are meaningless. though I agree with Gay. but, don't we have two kids waiting in the wings. wasn't our two best defensive players out? imagine if our two best players were out on offense. don't you thnk not having the best safety in the game hurt us last year? replacing him with possibly the worst player in the NFL may have cotributed to our poor pass defense (i will always despise tyrone carter).

Eddie Spaghetti
04-11-2010, 05:30 PM
Ramon Foster wins the job and starts for the next 6-7 years.

i'm telling you guys, this kid can play.

NJ-STEELER
04-11-2010, 05:47 PM
i'm more interested to see bronco play at guard then i am Center. he's strong as an ox, wonder if he has the feet to play the position

what position did he play in college...more OG? no?

Chadman
04-11-2010, 06:04 PM
Just curious- why do we need to replace Gay, because he 'sucks', but we can still hold on to hope for the older, just as ineffective Trai Essex?

Gay was a second year player & a 1st year starter on a team that underperformed & suffered what added up to insurmountable injuries to key defensive players.

Yet Essex, who has been around a number of years, get's a 'there's still hope for him' tag.

Essex is, at best, a stop gap replacement for a game or two.

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 06:35 PM
Just curious- why do we need to replace Gay, because he 'sucks', but we can still hold on to hope for the older, just as ineffective Trai Essex?

Gay was a second year player & a 1st year starter on a team that underperformed & suffered what added up to insurmountable injuries to key defensive players.

Yet Essex, who has been around a number of years, get's a 'there's still hope for him' tag.

Essex is, at best, a stop gap replacement for a game or two.
umm i'd toss essex. let urbik and foster fight it out for RG.
I think an open competition for cb needs to take place. let Lewis, Burnett and Gay fight it out.

pfelix73
04-11-2010, 07:25 PM
Calling both Hartwig and Legursky turds is just laughable. Do you know that Legursky is one of the strongest if not THE stongest lineman on the team? His work ethic is superb. Essex is/was the same way and he's now starting at RG. Where do I get my info? Well, from Craig Wolfley and a few other local yocals. Again, the coaches know what they are doing. We have a young OL and it will only get better with more playing time. Not so sure I can say that about the DB situation where even Ike's contract is up soon too.

As far as the Chadman arguement- Well, all I know is we need play makers on defense. Not along the OL.

Please answer my ? IF you were the Steelers FO, and you drafted Iupati, who are you going to cut? Furthermore, there's no way Pouncey would beat out Hartwig at C in the 1st year. Let's please be realistic and put down those controls on the playstation.
:tt1


Whoever said it- I agree about Foster- he may be the heir apparent at RG. He'll get to compete this summer, but Essex will have to get beaten out as its his job to lose.

pfelix73
04-11-2010, 07:54 PM
Those of you who haven't visited this thread, please do so:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11321 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11321)


:tt1

pfelix73
04-11-2010, 07:57 PM
"and you can't seriously think that back up db is more important than a starting center...."

Again, stuff like this is just laughable. Prove it!

So, your opinion is that Wilson would be a backup whereas Pouncey would start day 1. Prove it.
:stirpot

Mister Pittsburgh
04-11-2010, 08:03 PM
IMHO, out of the group on the roster, by far it should be Ramon Foster. Actually Foster should start at RT and Colon should be bumped in to RG.

In 2007, with Foster at RT, the Vols QB attempted 519 pass attempts and was sacked 3 times.
Why move one of the better RT to guard? a position he has NEVER played. a position that coaches and scouts feel that he isn't suited for. a position that only arm chair quarterbacks on message boards even wants him to play.

Because he sucks at RT. Not sure where you are pulling the word 'better' from other than where the sun don't shine.

Mister Pittsburgh
04-11-2010, 08:08 PM
The coaching staff knows their players the best- not us just because we watch a 16 game season. After all, they are the ones who get paid the bucks to evaluate their players 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

To bring this line of thinking onto a message board is ridiculous. Why even discuss anything regarding the Steelers then other than how the games go?

Can't discuss who we draft and can't be negative at all about it because heck, who are we because the coaches are the ones that know the best.

Why discuss the gameplans at all in any negative light because I mean the coaches are the ones watching all the film on the teams we play and they know better than us.

Why discuss when one player should start over another due to poor play or age cause the coaches know best.....come on man.

pfelix73
04-11-2010, 08:35 PM
Sorry, if you disagree. Guess that's why I stop posting on here right around this time of year. I'll just 'bite my lip' and shut the hell up then. :lol:

NW Steeler
04-11-2010, 08:54 PM
There still seems to be too much emphasis on how much our first round pick will play this year, or who he is going to replace. It's not realistic to expect anyone to play a lot in their rookie season. They will draft with the future in mind and I doubt they will worry about who they will have to cut.

Steel Life
04-11-2010, 09:16 PM
I think the coaches liked what they saw from Foster & would give him the edge going to camp over Urbik & Essex...but they'll really hope Urbik steps up & probably would like to see Essex back to the swing spot.

But here's a thing or two to watch out for...

1. Jonathan Scott - Scott was brought here by the team on the advice of Kugler, who coached him in Buffalo. Scott was a premier OT prospect at Texas before falling prey to ego & sloppy habits. But after a couple of seasons, he's got his head on straight & a coach who believes in him...don't be surprised to see him give Colon a run for his money at RT or get a shot if the coaches move Willie inside.

2. Drafting Pouncey - One of the things heralded about Pouncey is that he could play OG. Is he better than any of our other options at that spot & does that cause a problem down the road if he plays there & then moves to center, delaying the development of a proper RG?

pfelix73
04-11-2010, 09:42 PM
Again, I come back to who are ya gonna cut if you use a high draft pick on a C/ and or G?

Urbik? 3rd round pick
Foster? starting experience
Legursky? starting experience/ backup C
Essex? starter

I say the odds are we will NOT be using a high draft pick on a C or G. OT? not likely either with the signing of Scott.
:tt1