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StarSpangledSteeler
04-10-2010, 05:47 AM
I think many of us are underestimating the FO's interest in drafting a center. Last year, there were numerous post draft reports about the Steelers looking to draft either Mack or Wood in the first round, and when they missed out, trying desperately to trade up for Unger. What has changed since then? Not much. We did not bring in any FA centers. And our young players don't appear to be a substantial upgrade from Hartwig. How can anyone expect us to leave the first three rounds this year without a center?

The question I have is which center prospect makes the most sense for our team? Pouncey? Tennant? or Walton?

RuthlessBurgher
04-10-2010, 07:23 AM
Pouncey is the best of the bunch, but ideally, I would prefer to spend the #18 pick on an impact defensive player instead. However, if we were able to trade our 2nd and 3rd round pick to move up into the late first, early second area if Pouncey were still available, I would be all for that (you mentioned that we tried to trade up for Unger last year, so why not do it again this year for Pouncey when we have 10 picks and filled many of our obvious depth holes in free agency).

If we don't get Pouncey, I would consider Walton or Tennant in the 3rd or 4th rounds (or possibly spend a late round flyer on Bruce Matthews' son, Kevin, from Texas A&M). However, consider that there should be a strong center class coming out next year (similar to last year with 3 top prospects like Mack, Wood, and Unger). USC's Kris O'Dowd, Penn State's Stefen Wisniewski, and even Maurkice Pouncey's twin brother Mike (he should also have the positional flexibility to play both center and guard) could be options in the late first, early second area next year as well. If we don't get Maurkice in this draft, we may be better off living with Hartwig and Legursky at center this year, and waiting until next year to get our center of the future.

Oviedo
04-10-2010, 09:50 AM
Round 3 or 4 sounds about right. Next year even sounds better.

Shawn
04-10-2010, 12:45 PM
I think many of us are underestimating the FO's interest in drafting a center. Last year, there were numerous post draft reports about the Steelers looking to draft either Mack or Wood in the first round, and when they missed out, trying desperately to trade up for Unger. What has changed since then? Not much. We did not bring in any FA centers. And our young players don't appear to be a substantial upgrade from Hartwig. How can anyone expect us to leave the first three rounds this year without a center?

The question I have is which center prospect makes the most sense for our team? Pouncey? Tennant? or Walton?

My mock is based on the rumors of last years interest in a first round center. Pouncey is not my first choice. But, I believe the FO disagrees with most of us. If they were looking last year...why not this year? Considering we have a new OL coach and an appeal from the FO to run the ball more consistantly...I have to assume the OL has to be a high priority. Pouncey is better than any of the centers in last years draft (my opinion of course). So, if he is there...and a freak doesn't fall. I think he is the choice.

StarSpangledSteeler
04-10-2010, 01:04 PM
I think many of us are underestimating the FO's interest in drafting a center. Last year, there were numerous post draft reports about the Steelers looking to draft either Mack or Wood in the first round, and when they missed out, trying desperately to trade up for Unger. What has changed since then? Not much. We did not bring in any FA centers. And our young players don't appear to be a substantial upgrade from Hartwig. How can anyone expect us to leave the first three rounds this year without a center?

The question I have is which center prospect makes the most sense for our team? Pouncey? Tennant? or Walton?

My mock is based on the rumors of last years interest in a first round center. Pouncey is not my first choice. But, I believe the FO disagrees with most of us. If they were looking last year...why not this year? Considering we have a new OL coach and an appeal from the FO to run the ball more consistantly...I have to assume the OL has to be a high priority. Pouncey is better than any of the centers in last years draft (my opinion of course). So, if he is there...and a freak doesn't fall. I think he is the choice.

Okay, let me ask this... How much better is Pouncey than Tennant?

I give Pouncey credit for his pass protection but is he really that dominate in the run game? I don't hear the scouts saying that he blows people off the ball?

Chucktownsteeler
04-10-2010, 01:05 PM
This is pretty much how I feel. Although I want the Steelers to draft there next "dominant" center, we may need to wait until next year. Hopefully I am saying this correctly, when you reach for a player that you probably shouldn't take at that particula round you end up with a Troy Edmonds. Although we needed a WR desparately, Boston and Holt were already drafted and we "reached" for troy (although Jevon Kearse was still on the board) and paid dearly.

Now, if we can get Pouncey in round 2, I would give it some thought. I think at pick #18 we need an impact player on the defense.

Chucktownsteeler

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 01:33 PM
I think many of us are underestimating the FO's interest in drafting a center. Last year, there were numerous post draft reports about the Steelers looking to draft either Mack or Wood in the first round, and when they missed out, trying desperately to trade up for Unger. What has changed since then? Not much. We did not bring in any FA centers. And our young players don't appear to be a substantial upgrade from Hartwig. How can anyone expect us to leave the first three rounds this year without a center?

The question I have is which center prospect makes the most sense for our team? Pouncey? Tennant? or Walton?

My mock is based on the rumors of last years interest in a first round center. Pouncey is not my first choice. But, I believe the FO disagrees with most of us. If they were looking last year...why not this year? Considering we have a new OL coach and an appeal from the FO to run the ball more consistantly...I have to assume the OL has to be a high priority. Pouncey is better than any of the centers in last years draft (my opinion of course). So, if he is there...and a freak doesn't fall. I think he is the choice.

Okay, let me ask this... How much better is Pouncey than Tennant?

I give Pouncey credit for his pass protection but is he really that dominate in the run game? I don't hear the scouts saying that he blows people off the ball?
umm then you should listen more closely. all the scouts are touting his strength. and btw, just because the gators didn't have a stud RB they still managed to run the ball quiet well. they just split carries between essentially 4 players.

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 01:37 PM
This is pretty much how I feel. Although I want the Steelers to draft there next "dominant" center, we may need to wait until next year. Hopefully I am saying this correctly, when you reach for a player that you probably shouldn't take at that particula round you end up with a Troy Edmonds. Although we needed a WR desparately, Boston and Holt were already drafted and we "reached" for troy (although Jevon Kearse was still on the board) and paid dearly.

Now, if we can get Pouncey in round 2, I would give it some thought. I think at pick #18 we need an impact player on the defense.

Chucktownsteeler
NO offense but that is really a dumb line of thinking. Pouncey is clearly the #1 guy at his position, a position he would have been #1 in last year and would be #1 in next year. Troy was NEVER #1 at ANYTHING (maybe in little gridders). Pouncey may go in the top 15 and you think we should wait and see if he's there in the 2nd? give me a break.

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 01:41 PM
not sure if you guys get this but the gators rushed for 3105 yds last year. 5.5 yards a carry, 221.8 yds a game and had 30 rushing touchdowns...
http://gatorzone.com/football/stats/team.pdf

Chucktownsteeler
04-10-2010, 01:47 PM
This is pretty much how I feel. Although I want the Steelers to draft there next "dominant" center, we may need to wait until next year. Hopefully I am saying this correctly, when you reach for a player that you probably shouldn't take at that particula round you end up with a Troy Edmonds. Although we needed a WR desparately, Boston and Holt were already drafted and we "reached" for troy (although Jevon Kearse was still on the board) and paid dearly.

Now, if we can get Pouncey in round 2, I would give it some thought. I think at pick #18 we need an impact player on the defense.

Chucktownsteeler
NO offense but that is really a dumb line of thinking. Pouncey is clearly the #1 guy at his position, a position he would have been #1 in last year and would be #1 in next year. Troy was NEVER #1 at ANYTHING (maybe in little gridders). Pouncey may go in the top 15 and you think we should wait and see if he's there in the 2nd? give me a break.


When you reach for a position and not the BPA you get a Troy or Jamain Stephens.

Yes, I would love to draft the next great center, but now we need defensive help more.

The secondary was carved up like Thanksgiving day turkey last year and we have little or depth at safety. No guarantees the injury bug won't hit again.

Next year the center position looks deep, we'll take a shot then.

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 01:51 PM
This is pretty much how I feel. Although I want the Steelers to draft there next "dominant" center, we may need to wait until next year. Hopefully I am saying this correctly, when you reach for a player that you probably shouldn't take at that particula round you end up with a Troy Edmonds. Although we needed a WR desparately, Boston and Holt were already drafted and we "reached" for troy (although Jevon Kearse was still on the board) and paid dearly.

Now, if we can get Pouncey in round 2, I would give it some thought. I think at pick #18 we need an impact player on the defense.

Chucktownsteeler
NO offense but that is really a dumb line of thinking. Pouncey is clearly the #1 guy at his position, a position he would have been #1 in last year and would be #1 in next year. Troy was NEVER #1 at ANYTHING (maybe in little gridders). Pouncey may go in the top 15 and you think we should wait and see if he's there in the 2nd? give me a break.


When you reach for a position and not the BPA you get a Troy or Jamain Stephens.

Yes, I would love to draft the next great center, but now we need defensive help more.

The secondary was carved up like Thanksgiving day turkey last year and we have little or depth at safety. No guarantees the injury bug won't hit again.

Next year the center position looks deep, we'll take a shot then.
reaching does not occur when you get the consensus best player at a position and a guy who many consider to be a top 15 talent. Gil Brandt labeled Pouncey the best center to come out in the draft in the last 10 YEARS. but if you want to continue on with the statistically worst center in football for one more year... that's all you. troy edwards was a bum. and a definite reach. but like i said, he wasn't considered highly by anyone before the draft. same thing wtih stephens. those guys weren't considered anyting special when they came out.

NJ-STEELER
04-10-2010, 02:00 PM
on another board i asked a fellow who really keys in on the OL play about tennant.

he said "he's worse then Mahan"

ouch

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 02:02 PM
on another board i asked a fellow who really keys in on the OL play about tennant.

he said "he's worse then Mahan"

ouch
I honestly believe that Pouncey will be the next Dirt Dawson...
but if Earl Thomas is there... he'd be my pick...

NJ-STEELER
04-10-2010, 02:08 PM
on another board i asked a fellow who really keys in on the OL play about tennant.

he said "he's worse then Mahan"

ouch
I honestly believe that Pouncey will be the next Dirt Dawson...
but if Earl Thomas is there... he'd be my pick...


thats who i thought of, watching how mobile he was on some of the combine drills

Shawn
04-10-2010, 02:14 PM
I think many of us are underestimating the FO's interest in drafting a center. Last year, there were numerous post draft reports about the Steelers looking to draft either Mack or Wood in the first round, and when they missed out, trying desperately to trade up for Unger. What has changed since then? Not much. We did not bring in any FA centers. And our young players don't appear to be a substantial upgrade from Hartwig. How can anyone expect us to leave the first three rounds this year without a center?

The question I have is which center prospect makes the most sense for our team? Pouncey? Tennant? or Walton?

My mock is based on the rumors of last years interest in a first round center. Pouncey is not my first choice. But, I believe the FO disagrees with most of us. If they were looking last year...why not this year? Considering we have a new OL coach and an appeal from the FO to run the ball more consistantly...I have to assume the OL has to be a high priority. Pouncey is better than any of the centers in last years draft (my opinion of course). So, if he is there...and a freak doesn't fall. I think he is the choice.

Okay, let me ask this... How much better is Pouncey than Tennant?

I give Pouncey credit for his pass protection but is he really that dominate in the run game? I don't hear the scouts saying that he blows people off the ball?


I don't have a ton of exposure to Tennant to be honest. I know from my reading that they are considered in a different league. Tennant might be great...and might be a bust. I believe most scouts to believe Pouncey to be a no miss pick. He is technically superb...extremely mobile...good football head...big strong and I have read several sites that consider him gifted in the run blocking department. What I seen of him concurs with those sentiments.

My two reservations. Center at 18? I would rather have a defensive playmaker ie Thomas or Haden. And how long will it take Pouncey to transition from a shotgun style offense to the Steelers? I think there will be a small learning curve but it appears Pouncey has the goods to be great.

Shawn
04-10-2010, 02:17 PM
on another board i asked a fellow who really keys in on the OL play about tennant.

he said "he's worse then Mahan"

ouch
I honestly believe that Pouncey will be the next Dirt Dawson...
but if Earl Thomas is there... he'd be my pick...

What a great comparison and I agree. Dawson is the perfect comparison. Dawson's mobility is one of the things that made him so great. His ability to pull and block on the second level opened up runs not possible with other centers.

Shawn
04-10-2010, 02:21 PM
This is pretty much how I feel. Although I want the Steelers to draft there next "dominant" center, we may need to wait until next year. Hopefully I am saying this correctly, when you reach for a player that you probably shouldn't take at that particula round you end up with a Troy Edmonds. Although we needed a WR desparately, Boston and Holt were already drafted and we "reached" for troy (although Jevon Kearse was still on the board) and paid dearly.

Now, if we can get Pouncey in round 2, I would give it some thought. I think at pick #18 we need an impact player on the defense.

Chucktownsteeler
NO offense but that is really a dumb line of thinking. Pouncey is clearly the #1 guy at his position, a position he would have been #1 in last year and would be #1 in next year. Troy was NEVER #1 at ANYTHING (maybe in little gridders). Pouncey may go in the top 15 and you think we should wait and see if he's there in the 2nd? give me a break.


When you reach for a position and not the BPA you get a Troy or Jamain Stephens.

Yes, I would love to draft the next great center, but now we need defensive help more.

The secondary was carved up like Thanksgiving day turkey last year and we have little or depth at safety. No guarantees the injury bug won't hit again.

Next year the center position looks deep, we'll take a shot then.

I'm not sure I entirely agree Chuck. Our secondary play seemed to get worse as the game wore on. We gave up alot of 4th quarter passing yards. I don't believe the secondary can own all of that. Our very old front 7 have to own alot of that because they stopped getting in the QBs face. They were wore down and opposing QBs had all day to pass.

With that said, getting another DB to pair up with Taylor is huge. It needs to be addressed in the first two rounds. But, to use your own logic I will say that at 18 we will have to stretch to find a DB. Haden and Thomas will likely be gone. Wilson while gifted has had some maturity/personality issues that we don't need. Everyone else is a huge reach at 18. So, if we go DB we need to either trade up or down.

hawaiiansteel
04-10-2010, 03:00 PM
This is pretty much how I feel. Although I want the Steelers to draft there next "dominant" center, we may need to wait until next year. Hopefully I am saying this correctly, when you reach for a player that you probably shouldn't take at that particula round you end up with a Troy Edmonds. Although we needed a WR desparately, Boston and Holt were already drafted and we "reached" for troy (although Jevon Kearse was still on the board) and paid dearly.

Now, if we can get Pouncey in round 2, I would give it some thought. I think at pick #18 we need an impact player on the defense.

Chucktownsteeler
NO offense but that is really a dumb line of thinking. Pouncey is clearly the #1 guy at his position, a position he would have been #1 in last year and would be #1 in next year. Troy was NEVER #1 at ANYTHING (maybe in little gridders). Pouncey may go in the top 15 and you think we should wait and see if he's there in the 2nd? give me a break.


When you reach for a position and not the BPA you get a Troy or Jamain Stephens.

Yes, I would love to draft the next great center, but now we need defensive help more.

The secondary was carved up like Thanksgiving day turkey last year and we have little or depth at safety. No guarantees the injury bug won't hit again.

Next year the center position looks deep, we'll take a shot then.


ok, so what impact defensive player would you draft at #18? and keep in mind that Eric Berry, Joe Haden and Earl Thomas will most likely be long gone...

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 03:08 PM
shawn, your statement about the fourth qtr is huge. and spot on. I'd approach it from a little bit of a different direction. I honestly believe that if we could control the LOS on OFFENSE we would be able to keep the d off the field. How about Pouncey in the 1st Robinson in the 2nd and spikes in the 3rd? those are all very possible picks for us. it would also add depth at two key positions on defense (though I'd like to add a DE just to keep guys fresh)...

MaxAMillion
04-10-2010, 03:30 PM
I think many of us are underestimating the FO's interest in drafting a center. Last year, there were numerous post draft reports about the Steelers looking to draft either Mack or Wood in the first round, and when they missed out, trying desperately to trade up for Unger. What has changed since then? Not much. We did not bring in any FA centers. And our young players don't appear to be a substantial upgrade from Hartwig. How can anyone expect us to leave the first three rounds this year without a center?

The question I have is which center prospect makes the most sense for our team? Pouncey? Tennant? or Walton?

You are correct, the Steelers do need to upgrade the center position and that is why Pounceyman will be coming to Pittsburgh. He has been my choice for at least a month now. I won't be surpirised if they draft a RG as well at some point. Urbik is a slow footed bust. They should have never listened to Arians on that one. If Urbik doesn't somehow start this year, you can most certainly write him off.

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 03:36 PM
are there any good guards between the 4-7 that could be had for good value?

had to edit, meant to say guards wrote centers.. my bad.

RuthlessBurgher
04-10-2010, 03:37 PM
I think many of us are underestimating the FO's interest in drafting a center. Last year, there were numerous post draft reports about the Steelers looking to draft either Mack or Wood in the first round, and when they missed out, trying desperately to trade up for Unger. What has changed since then? Not much. We did not bring in any FA centers. And our young players don't appear to be a substantial upgrade from Hartwig. How can anyone expect us to leave the first three rounds this year without a center?

The question I have is which center prospect makes the most sense for our team? Pouncey? Tennant? or Walton?

You are correct, the Steelers do need to upgrade the center position and that is why Pounceyman will be coming to Pittsburgh. He has been my choice for at least a month now. I won't be surpirised if they draft a RG as well at some point. Urbik is a slow footed bust. They should have never listened to Arians on that one. If Urbik doesn't somehow start this year, you can most certainly write him off.

Timmons (15th overall pick) didn't start in his 2nd year. But if Urbik (3rd round pick) doesn't start in year 2, you are writing him off as a bust? What about our 1st round pick Ziggy Hood? He's not expected to start this year. Does that mean he's automatically a bust too?

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 03:42 PM
I think many of us are underestimating the FO's interest in drafting a center. Last year, there were numerous post draft reports about the Steelers looking to draft either Mack or Wood in the first round, and when they missed out, trying desperately to trade up for Unger. What has changed since then? Not much. We did not bring in any FA centers. And our young players don't appear to be a substantial upgrade from Hartwig. How can anyone expect us to leave the first three rounds this year without a center?

The question I have is which center prospect makes the most sense for our team? Pouncey? Tennant? or Walton?

You are correct, the Steelers do need to upgrade the center position and that is why Pounceyman will be coming to Pittsburgh. He has been my choice for at least a month now. I won't be surpirised if they draft a RG as well at some point. Urbik is a slow footed bust. They should have never listened to Arians on that one. If Urbik doesn't somehow start this year, you can most certainly write him off.

Timmons (15th overall pick) didn't start in his 2nd year. But if Urbik (3rd round pick) doesn't start in year 2, you are writing him off as a bust? What about our 1st round pick Ziggy Hood? He's not expected to start this year. Does that mean he's automatically a bust too?
If Urbik doesn't start this year i wouldn't call him a bust... but I'm all for bringing in a later round draft pick to offer up some competition and maybe add a little bit more depth.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-10-2010, 04:32 PM
This has been a good thread with some great points going back and forth. I'll add my little bit here, but this comes from a perspective of not having seen the players discussed.

1. For those who believe that Pouncey is not a first round talent a la Troy Edwards, that view disagrees with almost everything I've seen in sites other than this one. How high a talent he is I have seen differing viewpoints, but nowhere else do you see him called "not first round talent". From everything I've seen there is not another Center rated close to him.

2. DB seems to have a couple of really top guys - Haden, Berry, Thomas - but after that there should be several equal players available in the second or third.

3. We still have two picks from last year around and we have no idea how they have been perfoming and how ready they are. The coaching staff does. And don't think that because they gave a limited contribution last year that it means that they are not ready. I don't know what the coaches think of them, but they may have a very different opinion on the need for an early CB.

OL would not surprise me at all. There seems to be very few first round type impact 3-4 D players who are projected to be around for us in the first - aside from Graham who has been debated to death around this forum. Unless one of the top three DBs fall, I can see the pick being Pouncey, Iaputi, or possibly a dropping OT.

steeler_george
04-10-2010, 04:58 PM
shawn, your statement about the fourth qtr is huge. and spot on. I'd approach it from a little bit of a different direction. I honestly believe that if we could control the LOS on OFFENSE we would be able to keep the d off the field. How about Pouncey in the 1st Robinson in the 2nd and spikes in the 3rd? those are all very possible picks for us. it would also add depth at two key positions on defense (though I'd like to add a DE just to keep guys fresh)...

Bingo we have a winner...

One game in particular game that is an example of this from last year is the first Cincy game. We actually had the ball with less than 2 minutes and we could not close out the game. Who gets the credit for the loss the O or the D?

I definitely want a stronger physical line, and Pauncey sounds like a good start. However, I he might be a bit too high at 18 to select considering their should be an impact ( BPA) available. What would you rather have A Heath Miller caliber player or a Center.

If we decide to strengthen line early in the draft, I want a top 5 tackle or trade back to select PAUNCEY or trade up in the late 1st or early 2nd.

Shawn
04-10-2010, 05:03 PM
shawn, your statement about the fourth qtr is huge. and spot on. I'd approach it from a little bit of a different direction. I honestly believe that if we could control the LOS on OFFENSE we would be able to keep the d off the field. How about Pouncey in the 1st Robinson in the 2nd and spikes in the 3rd? those are all very possible picks for us. it would also add depth at two key positions on defense (though I'd like to add a DE just to keep guys fresh)...

I think that is reasonable. And controlling the clock is huge in keeping the fresh. With that said, I seen a stat...too lazy to look it up now that showed the Steelers had more TOP than their opponents last season. So, that's not the only answer. It's another reason why Odrick is not out of the running either. Being able to rotate him in would be huge.

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 05:46 PM
shawn, your statement about the fourth qtr is huge. and spot on. I'd approach it from a little bit of a different direction. I honestly believe that if we could control the LOS on OFFENSE we would be able to keep the d off the field. How about Pouncey in the 1st Robinson in the 2nd and spikes in the 3rd? those are all very possible picks for us. it would also add depth at two key positions on defense (though I'd like to add a DE just to keep guys fresh)...

I think that is reasonable. And controlling the clock is huge in keeping the fresh. With that said, I seen a stat...too lazy to look it up now that showed the Steelers had more TOP than their opponents last season. So, that's not the only answer. It's another reason why Odrick is not out of the running either. Being able to rotate him in would be huge.
I'm not talking TOP, that arguement was several months ago. I'm talking about imposing your will on the opponent, holding onto the ball when it matters and dominating the line of scrimmage.
TOP can be skewed. quick turnovers that lead to a score (or a score on a TO), kickoff returns. those things skew that stat. there is no stat that shows how much your imposing your will or dominating the line of scrimmage though. and if you (and I know you have) watched the games then you know that we didn't control anything.

Chucktownsteeler
04-10-2010, 08:54 PM
If we look at the first Cinci game, I think we had a lead going into the 4th 21-9 (or something close). The defense gave up drives of 91 yards and 79 yards in the 4th quarter alone. They have to make a stop. Was this the game with a 4th and 12 that Farrior whiffed on the RB out of the backfield or was that the second Cinci game?

If you look at the Raiders game, the offense handed the lead back to the defense two or three time late fourth quarter and the defense couldn't stop Gradbowski. Everytime the offense was on the field in the fourth quarter they had to score, they were trailing, they could not run out the clock.

If you even go as far as the Miami game, at that time we still had small playoffs hopes, the Dolphins almost came back with another late rally with a fourth or fifth string QB.

I think we need to address the defensive side of the ball, first.

No, I guess if Pouncy is that good (best center in 10 years) I don't have a problem taking. I just thought we may be "reaching " for a 2nd round talent because he is the best center in a weak class. Question: If Pouncey was in the same class as last year's crop (Wood, Mack, Unger, i.e.), where would he rate. Would he be #1, #2, #3, or #4 of that group?

To answer the question if Thomas, Berry, and Haden were gone, what defensive player would you chose? I would need to know who I could assume was still standing: Weatherspoon, McClain, Graham, etc?

I also agree with the post above, this was/ is a good discussion.


C-town

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 09:14 PM
Pouncey IMO would rate as the #1 center last year.
I don't get this talk about him only being a 1st rounder because it's a weak Center class. that's crazy. there is so much talent in this draft that, if anything, should cause him to fall. instead he's rising. you would predict that with as much talent as there is that he should fall. yet the reverse is happening. he's rising, not because it's a weak center class, but because HE HAS THAT MUCH TALENT.
I do agree that we need to shore up the defense, but IMO the three guys that we should key in on are gonna be gone (Haden, Thomas, Mclain). there is an outside chance we take Weatherspoon, but there is SOOO much depth in this draft at CB, S and LB that we can get a really good player in the 2nd and 3rd round...

WoodleyofTroy
04-10-2010, 10:47 PM
All these teams switching to a 3-4, more and more teams will be drafting Centers high. Get use to seeing this for awhile (Centers picked higher than usual in the first round).

Their value has gone up.

pfelix73
04-10-2010, 11:18 PM
Put me down as one that would VERY SURPRISED if the Steelers use a high draft pick on an OL, unless 1. Pouncey slides down the board and the Steelers would be able to get him at a good value (round 2) -like Ruthless said earlier, or 2. They take a OT somewhere in the middle rounds to compete with Hills. I honestly believe the interior positions are already set. There's alot of competition already there with Legursky, Urbik, and Foster already competing with the 2 starters. Hopefully with a better OL coach the blocking schemes will improve and maybe if we draft a real FB, our running game will improve too.

The first rounds really need to be defensive. CB- (Wilson) DL, or OLB- Graham.

:tt1

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 11:20 PM
wow, everyone would rather draft the 3rd best cb when we already have 2 really young ones, then possibly the next dermonti dawson in the first round to replace a guy who is statistically the worst center in football....

birtikidis
04-10-2010, 11:21 PM
and i would figure a guy with DIRT DAWSON as his signature would KNOW the value of a great center.. guess not.

pfelix73
04-10-2010, 11:40 PM
3rd best CB? Says who? I think and many others as well, that Kyle Wilson might just be as good as Haden- maybe better. He's a play maker and he's impressing a lot of people. He's worthy of the 18th pick.

Shawn
04-10-2010, 11:40 PM
wow, everyone would rather draft the 3rd best cb when we already have 2 really young ones, then possibly the next dermonti dawson in the first round to replace a guy who is statistically the worst center in football....

Agreed. I would rather have Pouncey than Wilson. It's time to bone up that OL. I wouldn't even be against drafting OL in the first two rounds.

pfelix73
04-10-2010, 11:41 PM
Yep- I sure do- And that's Legursky. He's gonna be a good one.



:tt1

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 12:24 AM
3rd best CB? Says who? I think and many others as well, that Kyle Wilson might just be as good as Haden- maybe better. He's a play maker and he's impressing a lot of people. He's worthy of the 18th pick.
yea third best. behind haden and thomas (even though thomas is a natural safety, many people, kiper and kayok among them have him as the #2 corner).

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 12:26 AM
Yep- I sure do- And that's Legursky. He's gonna be a good one.



:tt1
why because he rode the pine better than anyone else last year?
I'm tired of seeing our center get owned every single game.

Shawn
04-11-2010, 10:53 AM
I have to agree again Birt. What have we seen from Legursky?

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 12:15 PM
i could be wrong about this (probably am) but didn't legursky even end up sitting behind mahan? or did we acquire him after mahan's last season... i can't remember...

Chucktownsteeler
04-11-2010, 01:24 PM
I know a top-flite center is very important, especially with more and more teams going to the 3-4.

If Pouncey is that good I don't have a problem with the pick. However if he is just the best center in an extremely weak class, I'd go with Hartings for another year and try for one of the top 3 next season. It's a gamble, they may be off the board, depending were we pick.

The age of the defense still concerns me. I guess it will depend who is left on the board when we pick as to what direction we go.

C-town

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 01:26 PM
I know a top-flite center is very important, especially with more and more teams going to the 3-4.

If Pouncey is that good I don't have a problem with the pick. However if he is just the best center in an extremely weak class, I'd go with Hartings for another year and try for one of the top 3 next season. It's a gamble, they may be off the board, depending were we pick.

The age of the defense still concerns me. I guess it will depend who is left on the board when we pick as to what direction we go.

C-town
hey i'd go with hartings too if he hadn't retired a few years ago. i mean a retired hartings is better then a still playing hartwig...

Chucktownsteeler
04-11-2010, 01:27 PM
My bad, Hartwig.

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 01:32 PM
My bad, Hartwig.
yea i figured that's what you meant... but, still, I'd take hartings today before I'd take hartwig... that's how bad he is!

Oviedo
04-11-2010, 02:53 PM
Simple question: Is Pouncey so good that he deserves to be drafted higher than any Center selected this decade?

Simple answer: Not even close!!!!

WoodleyofTroy
04-11-2010, 03:03 PM
Simple question: Is Pouncey so good that he deserves to be drafted higher than any Center selected this decade?

Simple answer: Not even close!!!!

Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
6-4 , 304
Has speed and toughness. Played in the Sugar Bowl just hours after treatment for kidney stones. Very smart. Has lots of experience as a shotgun center. Maybe the best center prospect in 10 years.

Chucktownsteeler
04-11-2010, 03:35 PM
I went back as far as 1950 and I don't think the Steelers have ever selected a center in Round 1.

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 03:38 PM
I went back as far as 1950 and I don't think the Steelers have ever selected a center in Round 1.
so do you think that just since we hadn't drafted a center in the first round that we never should? that's very short sighted. you know, until ben we hadn't selected a qb in over 30 years.. maybe we should have just never drafted another qb that high ever again.

Shawn
04-11-2010, 04:22 PM
Simple question: Is Pouncey so good that he deserves to be drafted higher than any Center selected this decade?

Simple answer: Not even close!!!!

Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
6-4 , 304
Has speed and toughness. Played in the Sugar Bowl just hours after treatment for kidney stones. Very smart. Has lots of experience as a shotgun center. Maybe the best center prospect in 10 years.

:lol:

I guess the answer is yes. Pouncey is really that good.

Chucktownsteeler
04-11-2010, 04:29 PM
I went back as far as 1950 and I don't think the Steelers have ever selected a center in Round 1.
so do you think that just since we hadn't drafted a center in the first round that we never should? that's very short sighted. you know, until ben we hadn't selected a qb in over 30 years.. maybe we should have just never drafted another qb that high ever again.

It was more an observation than an idictment on Pouncey. No short-sightness meant. But then I read your signature and see were you are coming from. You're a Gator fan.

Maybe we should draft Tim Tebow.

C-town

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 04:35 PM
I went back as far as 1950 and I don't think the Steelers have ever selected a center in Round 1.
so do you think that just since we hadn't drafted a center in the first round that we never should? that's very short sighted. you know, until ben we hadn't selected a qb in over 30 years.. maybe we should have just never drafted another qb that high ever again.

It was more an observation than an idictment on Pouncey. No short-sightness meant. But then I read your signature and see were you are coming from. You're a Gator fan.

Maybe we should draft Tim Tebow.

C-town
I'm definetly a gator fan. I've watched pouncey for 3 years. he's a stud.
plus I hate ohio state (i grew up a michigan fan).
I'm more of a "fan" of college football. i don't like any one particular team more than others. i follow a team from every conference.
I would say I'm a fanatic when it come to the steelers though!
and no, I wouldn't draft Tebow.. though I would love to have his charecter, work ethic, and humbleness on our team.

Shawn
04-11-2010, 04:40 PM
I went back as far as 1950 and I don't think the Steelers have ever selected a center in Round 1.
so do you think that just since we hadn't drafted a center in the first round that we never should? that's very short sighted. you know, until ben we hadn't selected a qb in over 30 years.. maybe we should have just never drafted another qb that high ever again.

It was more an observation than an idictment on Pouncey. No short-sightness meant. But then I read your signature and see were you are coming from. You're a Gator fan.

Maybe we should draft Tim Tebow.

C-town

I despise everything Gator and think Pouncey is a stud.

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 04:49 PM
I went back as far as 1950 and I don't think the Steelers have ever selected a center in Round 1.
so do you think that just since we hadn't drafted a center in the first round that we never should? that's very short sighted. you know, until ben we hadn't selected a qb in over 30 years.. maybe we should have just never drafted another qb that high ever again.

It was more an observation than an idictment on Pouncey. No short-sightness meant. But then I read your signature and see were you are coming from. You're a Gator fan.

Maybe we should draft Tim Tebow.

C-town

I despise everything Gator and think Pouncey is a stud.
talk about a great year... beating sOSU in both football and basketball for a national championship AND winning the superbowl.. awesome!

Steel Life
04-11-2010, 05:28 PM
There's no debate - it is weak OC class this year. And Pouncey is not demonstrably better than either Mack or Unger last year. There's nothing about Pouncey that jumps out dramatically to separate him from the other OC candidates...

Pouncey - 6'5", 305, Arms: 32.5, Hands: 10
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.25 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.92 / Cone: 7.74 / Broad: 7'11" / Vert: 27

Tennant - 6'5", 300, Arms: 32.25, Hands: 9.5
Bench: 27 / 40: 5.15 / 10-Split: 1.76 / Shuttle: 4.62 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'2" / Vert: 25

Walton - 6'3", 300, Arms: 33.375, Hands: 9.25
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.19 / 10-Split: 1.80 / Shuttle: 4.69 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'5" / Vert: 27

Joe Hawley (UNLV - Rnd. 6-7) - 6'3", 297, Arms: 33.125, Hands: 10.625
Bench: 35 / 40: 5.21 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.73 / Cone: 7.50 / Broad: 8'9" / Vert: 26

...Looking at this, I'm curious as to why everyone says he's clearly better. Matter of fact, if you're a believer in the KEI scouting method, then you see that Hawley is a better prospect than Pouncey.

NJ-STEELER
04-11-2010, 05:49 PM
I went back as far as 1950 and I don't think the Steelers have ever selected a center in Round 1.


is this Ed bouchette?

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 06:38 PM
There's no debate - it is weak OC class this year. And Pouncey is not demonstrably better than either Mack or Unger last year. There's nothing about Pouncey that jumps out dramatically to separate him from the other OC candidates...

Pouncey - 6'5", 305, Arms: 32.5, Hands: 10
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.25 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.92 / Cone: 7.74 / Broad: 7'11" / Vert: 27

Tennant - 6'5", 300, Arms: 32.25, Hands: 9.5
Bench: 27 / 40: 5.15 / 10-Split: 1.76 / Shuttle: 4.62 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'2" / Vert: 25

Walton - 6'3", 300, Arms: 33.375, Hands: 9.25
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.19 / 10-Split: 1.80 / Shuttle: 4.69 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'5" / Vert: 27

Joe Hawley (UNLV - Rnd. 6-7) - 6'3", 297, Arms: 33.125, Hands: 10.625
Bench: 35 / 40: 5.21 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.73 / Cone: 7.50 / Broad: 8'9" / Vert: 26

...Looking at this, I'm curious as to why everyone says he's clearly better. Matter of fact, if you're a believer in the KEI scouting method, then you see that Hawley is a better prospect than Pouncey.
umm maybe it's because measurable aren't everything. I'll bet macks measurables were as good as Dawsons. but who would you rather have?
how about looking at it this way, other than pouncey and his brother, who do the gators have on the O-line. I dn't even know and i'm a gator fan. but we still rushed for over 3,000 yards last season with out a stud running back.

Flasteel
04-11-2010, 07:21 PM
on another board i asked a fellow who really keys in on the OL play about tennant.

he said "he's worse then Mahan"

ouch
I honestly believe that Pouncey will be the next Dirt Dawson...
but if Earl Thomas is there... he'd be my pick...

Haden, Thomas, then Pouncey. I'm right there with you man. Hopefully we'll have a shot to pull the trigger on one of these 3.

pfelix73
04-11-2010, 07:38 PM
I just love all this crap on here leading up to the draft.. we need to take score afterwards on who was right and who was wrong.
:tt1

Steel Life
04-11-2010, 07:56 PM
There's no debate - it is weak OC class this year. And Pouncey is not demonstrably better than either Mack or Unger last year. There's nothing about Pouncey that jumps out dramatically to separate him from the other OC candidates...

Pouncey - 6'5", 305, Arms: 32.5, Hands: 10
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.25 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.92 / Cone: 7.74 / Broad: 7'11" / Vert: 27

Tennant - 6'5", 300, Arms: 32.25, Hands: 9.5
Bench: 27 / 40: 5.15 / 10-Split: 1.76 / Shuttle: 4.62 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'2" / Vert: 25

Walton - 6'3", 300, Arms: 33.375, Hands: 9.25
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.19 / 10-Split: 1.80 / Shuttle: 4.69 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'5" / Vert: 27

Joe Hawley (UNLV - Rnd. 6-7) - 6'3", 297, Arms: 33.125, Hands: 10.625
Bench: 35 / 40: 5.21 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.73 / Cone: 7.50 / Broad: 8'9" / Vert: 26

...Looking at this, I'm curious as to why everyone says he's clearly better. Matter of fact, if you're a believer in the KEI scouting method, then you see that Hawley is a better prospect than Pouncey.
umm maybe it's because measurable aren't everything. I'll bet macks measurables were as good as Dawsons. but who would you rather have?
how about looking at it this way, other than pouncey and his brother, who do the gators have on the O-line. I don't even know and i'm a gator fan. but we still rushed for over 3,000 yards last season with out a stud running back.
I know what you're saying, but I (& other Florida resident Oveido) just don't feel he's THAT dominant. He plays in a spread offense where the splits are wider & forces the D-Linemen to spread out - opening lanes for the O-Linemen & RBs. Plus...Tebow's yards are thrown in there & those are variables when evaluating the line's efficiency. As for the KEI numbers, they certainly don't tell the whole story but they're pretty reliable. What I'm saying is that he's not the sure-fire player some would believe & don't forget that good linemen can be found in later rounds too.

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 08:58 PM
[quote="Steel Life":3np9xgz3]There's no debate - it is weak OC class this year. And Pouncey is not demonstrably better than either Mack or Unger last year. There's nothing about Pouncey that jumps out dramatically to separate him from the other OC candidates...

Pouncey - 6'5", 305, Arms: 32.5, Hands: 10
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.25 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.92 / Cone: 7.74 / Broad: 7'11" / Vert: 27

Tennant - 6'5", 300, Arms: 32.25, Hands: 9.5
Bench: 27 / 40: 5.15 / 10-Split: 1.76 / Shuttle: 4.62 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'2" / Vert: 25

Walton - 6'3", 300, Arms: 33.375, Hands: 9.25
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.19 / 10-Split: 1.80 / Shuttle: 4.69 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'5" / Vert: 27

Joe Hawley (UNLV - Rnd. 6-7) - 6'3", 297, Arms: 33.125, Hands: 10.625
Bench: 35 / 40: 5.21 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.73 / Cone: 7.50 / Broad: 8'9" / Vert: 26

...Looking at this, I'm curious as to why everyone says he's clearly better. Matter of fact, if you're a believer in the KEI scouting method, then you see that Hawley is a better prospect than Pouncey.
umm maybe it's because measurable aren't everything. I'll bet macks measurables were as good as Dawsons. but who would you rather have?
how about looking at it this way, other than pouncey and his brother, who do the gators have on the O-line. I don't even know and i'm a gator fan. but we still rushed for over 3,000 yards last season with out a stud running back.
I know what you're saying, but I (& other Florida resident Oveido) just don't feel he's THAT dominant. He plays in a spread offense where the splits are wider & forces the D-Linemen to spread out - opening lanes for the O-Linemen & RBs. Plus...Tebow's yards are thrown in there & those are variables when evaluating the line's efficiency. As for the KEI numbers, they certainly don't tell the whole story but they're pretty reliable. What I'm saying is that he's not the sure-fire player some would believe & don't forget that good linemen can be found in later rounds too.[/quote:3np9xgz3]
keep telling yourself that last part and you'll keep seeing Essex, Hartwig and the like starting...

Steel Life
04-11-2010, 09:42 PM
[quote="Steel Life":1uo2fye1]There's no debate - it is weak OC class this year. And Pouncey is not demonstrably better than either Mack or Unger last year. There's nothing about Pouncey that jumps out dramatically to separate him from the other OC candidates...

Pouncey - 6'5", 305, Arms: 32.5, Hands: 10
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.25 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.92 / Cone: 7.74 / Broad: 7'11" / Vert: 27

Tennant - 6'5", 300, Arms: 32.25, Hands: 9.5
Bench: 27 / 40: 5.15 / 10-Split: 1.76 / Shuttle: 4.62 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'2" / Vert: 25

Walton - 6'3", 300, Arms: 33.375, Hands: 9.25
Bench: 24 / 40: 5.19 / 10-Split: 1.80 / Shuttle: 4.69 / Cone: 7.60 / Broad: 8'5" / Vert: 27

Joe Hawley (UNLV - Rnd. 6-7) - 6'3", 297, Arms: 33.125, Hands: 10.625
Bench: 35 / 40: 5.21 / 10-Split: 1.78 / Shuttle: 4.73 / Cone: 7.50 / Broad: 8'9" / Vert: 26

...Looking at this, I'm curious as to why everyone says he's clearly better. Matter of fact, if you're a believer in the KEI scouting method, then you see that Hawley is a better prospect than Pouncey.
umm maybe it's because measurable aren't everything. I'll bet macks measurables were as good as Dawsons. but who would you rather have?
how about looking at it this way, other than pouncey and his brother, who do the gators have on the O-line. I don't even know and i'm a gator fan. but we still rushed for over 3,000 yards last season with out a stud running back.
I know what you're saying, but I (& other Florida resident Oveido) just don't feel he's THAT dominant. He plays in a spread offense where the splits are wider & forces the D-Linemen to spread out - opening lanes for the O-Linemen & RBs. Plus...Tebow's yards are thrown in there & those are variables when evaluating the line's efficiency. As for the KEI numbers, they certainly don't tell the whole story but they're pretty reliable. What I'm saying is that he's not the sure-fire player some would believe & don't forget that good linemen can be found in later rounds too.
keep telling yourself that last part and you'll keep seeing Essex, Hartwig and the like starting...[/quote:1uo2fye1]
No - what I see is Jeff Saturday as a Pro Bowl center, who was undrafted - like Brian Waters (Chiefs) who only went to 4 Pro Bowls & Jason Peters who's been to two. How about Mike Webster, who was a 5th round pick? I could go on, but I think you get the point...besides our team is one of the most successful in finding low-round or UDFA talent & have won two Super Bowls with the guys on the roster - most teams would like to have that success. I'm not sure what the thing is with UF players having this mystical "edge" over others, but I'm sure this team won't die without selecting Pouncey.

Shawn
04-11-2010, 09:48 PM
Ok...we can agree to disagree. But, SL you must admit you have a higher chance of finding a quality OLman early rather than late. And we have ignored our OL in the first 2 rounds for many many years. There is a reason our OL is subpar. It's time to invest in our OL.

birtikidis
04-11-2010, 10:14 PM
Ok...we can agree to disagree. But, SL you must admit you have a higher chance of finding a quality OLman early rather than late. And we have ignored our OL in the first 2 rounds for many many years. There is a reason our OL is subpar. It's time to invest in our OL.
hear hear.
and SL, how many teams kick themselves because they didn't draft mike webster? i bet quite a few.