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hawaiiansteel
04-04-2010, 03:43 AM
On the Steelers: Holmes could be the one to pay for this offseason of legal dramas

Sunday, April 04, 2010
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



Santonio Holmes: One soap opera too many?


Whether Santonio Holmes threw that glass or not, his timing in this whole thing was awful. If the cops in Orlando, Fla., do charge him -- and reading the stories, they were going to do so that night/morning until the woman changed her mind -- his playing days with the Steelers could be in jeopardy.

Considering the Ben Roethlisberger Affair(s) and Holmes' inane tweets -- did anyone even pay attention to those before this? -- the Steelers might feel a need to do something to begin reclaiming the public's respect.

Holmes also had a few interesting things to say in regard to Ben Roethlisberger's legal woes and what his advice might be to his quarterback's nightlife routine. His comments came several weeks ago on Atlanta sports talk radio, before his own new legal issue came to light. The show is called "Mayhem in the AM on 790 The Zone.''

Q: On if he's had a chance to talk to Ben Roethlisberger since the news of his alleged assault broke last Thursday night:

Holmes: "I haven't. On my Twitter page, people have been hitting me up, telling me to tell Ben to stay out of nightclubs and keep him this, this and that. I'm like he's a grown man, he's entitled to do whatever he wants to do. Unfortunately, the incident came about. Hopefully, it will get resolved and we can get on with our season."

Q: On the commonly held belief that athletes like Big Ben shouldn't put themselves in potentially compromising situations by going out to clubs and bars:

Holmes: "You say that now, but when you're out having fun, you're just having fun. Like I said, you're entitled to go wherever you want to go. You're not expecting those things to happen; you're going to have fun and enjoy yourself. And when these things occur, how do you defend yourself?"

And about that Twitter page he mentioned, shouldn't someone -- an agent, a friend, Mike Tomlin -- take away his key to it?

Big Ben should join workouts

At some point, as PG columnist Ron Cook pointed out, Roethlisberger must rejoin his teammates. The longer he stays away, the more serious things look for him. Also, he has to show his employers and his teammates that he can keep his eye on the job even if he has a wandering one when he socializes. Again, none of these workouts are required, but if you are the starting quarterback of a team that still believes it is a Super Bowl contender, you cannot stay away for long.

Terry Bradshaw did that for quite legitimate reasons and under a whole different set of circumstances in the summer of 1974. His players union called a strike at the opening of training camps that summer and Bradshaw and many other veterans stayed away. (My first interview in my first training camp as a sports writer was with Jack Ham, who was holding a picket sign at the entrance to Saint Vincent College and was joined by striking electrical workers who carried their own signs.)

As a result of the strike, Bradshaw lost his job as the starting quarterback to Joe Gilliam. Bradshaw eventually won it back during the season, but the leading passer in the Steelers' first Super Bowl season was Gilliam, not Bradshaw. You can look it up.

Some items gleaned from my PG Plus slog (Steelers log):

• Casey Hampton is busy working out at the Steelers' facility. Normally, Hampton prefers to remain at home in Texas in the offseason. That is where he spent most of his time last year.

Not this year. He has been working out at the team facility and likely will participate in much of the OTAs this year. Maybe he is trying to show that he won't get fat just because he signed a new contract that averages more than $7 million annually.

• Forget the safety from Southern California, Taylor Mays. Mike Tomlin does not like him, not high in the draft anyway. He put up good numbers at the combine, but not good performances during last season. Remember what Deion Sanders said about Mays? He's right on as far as the Steelers are concerned. Here is a safety Tomlin does like: Kam Chancellor of Virginia Tech, a big man at 6-3, 231. He's not a first-rounder, but then the Steelers no longer have an interest in drafting a safety on the first round.

• Frank Summers, who had back surgery during his rookie season, has been working out daily with his teammates and looks good. He will be a bonus in their backfield if his back is strong and maybe be what they call in hockey a mucker and grinder in their backfield, particularly in short yardage. He could be a hammer back there to complement Rashard Mendenhall. However, you must put him in the "if" category now because he has not shown it in Pittsburgh yet.

• There really are not one or two positions the Steelers need to fill over others in the draft. There are more than that, which is why you cannot say they will take this, that or the other thing. Would it surprise anyone, for instance, if they drafted a linebacker on the first round? A guard? Tackle? Defensive lineman? Cornerback? And, depending on what happens over the next three weeks, a quarterback?



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10094/10 ... z0k7CGZMTc (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10094/1047802-66.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml#ixzz0k7CGZMTc)

Discipline of Steel
04-04-2010, 08:33 AM
• There really are not one or two positions the Steelers need to fill over others in the draft. There are more than that, which is why you cannot say they will take this, that or the other thing. Would it surprise anyone, for instance, if they drafted a linebacker on the first round? A guard? Tackle? Defensive lineman? Cornerback? And, depending on what happens over the next three weeks, a quarterback?

That is the great thing about the FA signings, at least we already have players to compete at every position. That combined with 10 draft picks puts us in a position to maneuver around to get the players Coach T likes. Although I think we stand pat on our first pick and take whomever falls...

Chadman
04-04-2010, 09:44 AM
He's not a first-rounder, but then the Steelers no longer have an interest in drafting a safety on the first round.


Hmmmmmmm........where is the Earl Thomas cheer squad when you need them?

:D

Discipline of Steel
04-04-2010, 11:35 AM
He's not a first-rounder, but then the Steelers no longer have an interest in drafting a safety on the first round.


Hmmmmmmm........where is the Earl Thomas cheer squad when you need them?

:D

Just a step ahead of you Chadman. I hope he is the one to fall to us at 18.

frankthetank1
04-04-2010, 11:41 AM
i find it hard to believe the steelers would pass on thomas if he is still on the board. glad to see tomlin doesnt want to draft mays

grotonsteel
04-04-2010, 11:54 AM
I would be shocked if Steelers don't draft Earl Thomas if he is still available at 18.

I think its a smokescreen. Tomlin has learnt his lesson after Revis debacle :wink:

ANPSTEEL
04-04-2010, 12:11 PM
Baring some crazy turn of events- meaning Stonio being arrested- I think Homes is done in Pitt. (it would not surprise me at all- to see him traded on draft day.)

Not to say El = Holmes- but he is a sufficient replacement. They signed him for a reason- and told him he would be the #3. He was signed just days after Holmes' event occurred.

Clearly, the team would prefer a player of Holmes' ability stay with the team, but these latest incidents will be the proverbial straw, imo.

I think, irrespective of guilt or innocence in this case, Holmes is suspended 4 games- due to conduct detrimental to the league. (this includes "pattern", assault, and twitter bs.)


The real dilemma here, for the Team and the League, is how do you equitably discipline both players- meaning both Ben & Holmes? I don't think the league or team can punish one and not the other- without significant appearance of preferential treatment- and huge backlash for the players union & players in general.

Shawn
04-04-2010, 12:44 PM
Baring some crazy turn of events- meaning Stonio being arrested- I think Homes is done in Pitt. (it would not surprise me at all- to see him traded on draft day.)

Not to say El = Holmes- but he is a sufficient replacement. They signed him for a reason- and told him he would be the #3. He was signed just days after Holmes' event occurred.

Clearly, the team would prefer a player of Holmes' ability stay with the team, but these latest incidents will be the proverbial straw, imo.

I think, irrespective of guilt or innocence in this case, Holmes is suspended 4 games- due to conduct detrimental to the league. (this includes "pattern", assault, and twitter bs.)


The real dilemma here, for the Team and the League, is how do you equitably discipline both players- meaning both Ben & Holmes? I don't think the league or team can punish one and not the other- without significant appearance of preferential treatment- and huge backlash for the players union & players in general.

I'm agreeing with you. I believe the Ben and Holmes debacle came at a bad time for Holmes. The Steelers will want to make a statement and Holmes might be the guy who is made an example of. Not to mention Ward has been rumored to be having some issues with his hammy issues. Ward's days in the Burgh are also numbered. It's the reason I have adjusted my mock to us looking for a solution...Benn.

D Rock
04-04-2010, 01:12 PM
I wouldn't mind Benn is available in round two. I've watched him tear up Penn State's defense enough to know he's pretty good.

How were his performances against Ohio State?

Shawn
04-04-2010, 01:41 PM
I wouldn't mind Benn is available in round two. I've watched him tear up Penn State's defense enough to know he's pretty good.

How were his performances against Ohio State?

I think Benn can be a solid #2 in the pros. He didn't tear up OSU but in his defense OSUs D was sick...maybe the best they have ever had.

Chadman
04-04-2010, 08:01 PM
If Ben & Santonio are guilty- they will have zero trade value.

Cut them both if guilty, and move on.

If you don't believe Chadman- how much trade stock did Vick raise?

NJ-STEELER
04-04-2010, 11:10 PM
how much trade value does brandon marshall have despite the troubles he's gotten in to

hawaiiansteel
04-04-2010, 11:14 PM
how much trade value does brandon marshall have despite the troubles he's gotten in to



Brandon Marshall is a restricted free agent who Denver has tendered with a first round compensation pick.

SS Laser
04-04-2010, 11:31 PM
If Ben & Santonio are guilty- they will have zero trade value.

Cut them both if guilty, and move on.

If you don't believe Chadman- how much trade stock did Vick raise?

Here I go again Chadman!
I do not see Homles transgressions on the level as Ben( If a crime was committed) and Vick.

So yes if a team loves what Homles brings to the football field he has some trade value.
Most of Holmes stuff he has not been convicted of anything. I guess that is why there has not been any NFL action on him at this point. So even if he gets something for this assualt he will still have trade value. I really don't think he gets traded at this point. Is this any worse then Harrisons assualt? Yes I know the charges were dropped on James.


There are teams looking at pacman still. Who is a troubled player. :stirpot

hawaiiansteel
04-04-2010, 11:41 PM
If Ben & Santonio are guilty- they will have zero trade value.

Cut them both if guilty, and move on.

If you don't believe Chadman- how much trade stock did Vick raise?

Here I go again Chadman!
I do not see Homles transgressions on the level as Ben( If a crime was committed) and Vick.

So yes if a team loves what Homles brings to the football field he has some trade value.
Most of Holmes stuff he has not been convicted of anything. I guess that is why there has not been any NFL action on him at this point. So even if he gets something for this assualt he will still have trade value. I really don't think he gets traded at this point. Is this any worse then Harrisons assualt? Yes I know the charges were dropped on James.


There are teams looking at pacman still. Who is a troubled player. :stirpot



Vick intentionally killed dogs, to me his transgressions are in a league of their own.

Ben uses bad judgment when it comes to women, I personally don't believe he sexually assaults them and i think he will ultimately be found innocent.

Santonio likes to get high, his biggest mistake is that he needs to be more discreet, stay out of clubs and learn to shut the f*ck up.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
04-04-2010, 11:47 PM
Baring some crazy turn of events- meaning Stonio being arrested- I think Homes is done in Pitt. (it would not surprise me at all- to see him traded on draft day.)

Not to say El = Holmes- but he is a sufficient replacement. They signed him for a reason- and told him he would be the #3. He was signed just days after Holmes' event occurred.

Clearly, the team would prefer a player of Holmes' ability stay with the team, but these latest incidents will be the proverbial straw, imo.

I think, irrespective of guilt or innocence in this case, Holmes is suspended 4 games- due to conduct detrimental to the league. (this includes "pattern", assault, and twitter bs.)


The real dilemma here, for the Team and the League, is how do you equitably discipline both players- meaning both Ben & Holmes? I don't think the league or team can punish one and not the other- without significant appearance of preferential treatment- and huge backlash for the players union & players in general.

I may be way off base here, but I'd think the F.O. could treat them very differently, get away with it, and rightfully so. One guy is a SB x 2 winning QB, franchise player. The other isn't. So right off the bat, "equal treatment" doesn't have to be the rule. It's not like constitutional rights, or anything. My :2c !

NJ-STEELER
04-05-2010, 12:04 AM
whats the difference?


in essence.....giving up a 1st rder for marshall


giving up a 2nd rder for holmes.


both have had some off the field issues

hawaiiansteel
04-05-2010, 02:50 AM
whats the difference?


in essence.....giving up a 1st rder for marshall


giving up a 2nd rder for holmes.


both have had some off the field issues


i'm not holding the latest incident with Anshonae Mills against Santonio, i think she is a golddigger...yet another reason why Ben and Santonio need to be more careful when they go out, though.

http://simg.sportsbybrooks.com/9/1/91a69fa419400a74f57d482b64936b9f_ashonaemillsperso nalprofile.jpg

Chadman
04-05-2010, 04:40 AM
Vick, Marshall & Pacman actually all strengthen Chadman's claim that Ben & Holmes' trade value is shot.

Vick, after his arrest, jail time & suspension, despite being a well known & well sought after QB, couldn't even geneerate any interest on the lowest level of trade value. Not even a 7th round pick. Teams knew Atlanta was going to have to cut him, so they all sat back & waited for that to happen.

Marshall, for all his all-world talent, and despite obviously being on the outer at Denver has been traded how many times? Recieved how many tender offers on his restricted free agency? None? Teams stay away, despite knowing he's an out-of-this-world talent.

And Pacman...an unrestricted free agent. He's recieved how many contract offers?

If Ben & Holmes go down, cut them & move on. Maybe, you can recieve some level of interest on Holmes. Maybe. But you won't get a 1st or 2nd round pick for a guy that is a legal risk.

Ben is so high-profile, it would actually work against him as a P.R. excercise for most teams- after all, who wants to add a sexual offender to their organisation? If he was Joe Schmo, teams could get by- after all, what's the risk on a guy that may or may not make league minimum? But $100 million Ben? That's a lot of media coverage.

Larry Johnson anyone?

It sucks, but if guilty, the Steelers will never get what we believe is fair trade value. Chadman looks at it this way- investment of 2 first round picks and a few million dollars gained the Steelers 2 Super Bowl wins. If you could be guarenteed 2 SB wins from the next two years 1st round picks, would you pick them?

Shawn
04-05-2010, 06:27 AM
Vick, Marshall & Pacman actually all strengthen Chadman's claim that Ben & Holmes' trade value is shot.

Vick, after his arrest, jail time & suspension, despite being a well known & well sought after QB, couldn't even geneerate any interest on the lowest level of trade value. Not even a 7th round pick. Teams knew Atlanta was going to have to cut him, so they all sat back & waited for that to happen.

Marshall, for all his all-world talent, and despite obviously being on the outer at Denver has been traded how many times? Recieved how many tender offers on his restricted free agency? None? Teams stay away, despite knowing he's an out-of-this-world talent.

And Pacman...an unrestricted free agent. He's recieved how many contract offers?

If Ben & Holmes go down, cut them & move on. Maybe, you can recieve some level of interest on Holmes. Maybe. But you won't get a 1st or 2nd round pick for a guy that is a legal risk.

Ben is so high-profile, it would actually work against him as a P.R. excercise for most teams- after all, who wants to add a sexual offender to their organisation? If he was Joe Schmo, teams could get by- after all, what's the risk on a guy that may or may not make league minimum? But $100 million Ben? That's a lot of media coverage.

Larry Johnson anyone?

It sucks, but if guilty, the Steelers will never get what we believe is fair trade value. Chadman looks at it this way- investment of 2 first round picks and a few million dollars gained the Steelers 2 Super Bowl wins. If you could be guarenteed 2 SB wins from the next two years 1st round picks, would you pick them?

I'm going to have to disagree. Vick and PacMan are clearly different scenerios. First, we are not talking prison time for Holmes. The Steelers have no need to cut or release Holmes. And despite some attitude/legal issues he would turn heads on the open market.
While Marshall hasn't garnered the kind of interest you would expect from a man of his talents they are still squabling over 1st or second round trade value.

Dee Dub
04-07-2010, 11:30 AM
I'm agreeing with you. I believe the Ben and Holmes debacle came at a bad time for Holmes. The Steelers will want to make a statement and Holmes might be the guy who is made an example of. Not to mention Ward has been rumored to be having some issues with his hammy issues. Ward's days in the Burgh are also numbered. It's the reason I have adjusted my mock to us looking for a solution...Benn.

Shawn….this coming around to my way of thinking fits you like a glove. And really not the first time either. If I didn’t know any better I’d think you may have a Bro-crush on me.


...as he pulls down his Ohio State Buckeyes glasses...

I'd trade him and then take a flyer on a guy like Arrelious Benn in round two. But that's just me.


Yeah well I assure you...that's just you.


Taking the unproven Benn over the proven Holmes= not smart.


I wouldn't trade Holmes for a second round pick let alone a third.


First Ward is about done. Wallace and Holmes will be our #1 and #2. As for Holmes...well the Steelers will re-sign him and include behavior clauses. This most recent incident is a bunch of nonsense...overreaction. Holmes's nonsense is more annoying than anything of substance.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11200 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11200)

I love ya Shawn. This forum just wouldnt be much with out you. :wink: