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View Full Version : Lets talk about appearances



Shawn
04-02-2010, 01:12 PM
There has been alot of speculation about Ben's and Holmes' future. Considering both guys have shown poor judgement, had accusations (but no convictions of abusing females) and put the franchise in a bad spot on numerous occasions...can we treat them differently?

If we trade or suspend Holmes but do not do the same with Ben what message does that send? Do you believe some of our black fans will believe this is a case of Steeler racism? Do you believe the Steelers having a black HC gives them a little more freedom in this case?

I really don't know and would love to have an open and civil discourse on the matter.

RuthlessBurgher
04-02-2010, 03:47 PM
There is a huge difference between a 2 time Super Bowl winning QB who recently signed a $100+ million contract, and a WR who just had his first 1000+ yard season this past year who will be entering the last year of his rookie contract. There are only 10 guys who have won multiple championships in the 44 years of the Super Bowl era, while there are typically around 20 receivers who go over 1000 yards every year in recent seasons.

Hypothetically, what if our 2 time Super Bowl winning QB with $100+ million contract was black and our WR who just had his first 1000+ yard season this past year and was entering the last year of his rookie deal was white? We would be more likely to keep the QB with multiple Super Bowl wins and the huge contract over the WR whose contract will expire after this season no matter what color they were.

All that said, I'm guessing that none of these cases will amount to anything, and we will ultimately keep both guys.

Shawn
04-02-2010, 04:44 PM
Aight so you believe if the Steelers cut Holmes and not Ben it will be about ability and position. I would agree. But, the question is more about perception. Do you believe most fans...black or white would understand this move? I'm not so sure. I would suspect you would have reporters like Janelle biting at the bit to write an article about the racial injustice within the Steelers organization.



Verbal

Holmes-Twitter nonsense
Ben-Take my shots bytches

Action

Holmes-Alleged domestic abuse, whoring, ganja
Ben-Unlicensed motorcycle riding, riding without a helmet, two accusations of rape/and or sexual assault, whoring, alleged public indecency, possible distributing alcohol to an underaged girl

I think it's a toss up between the two to be honest. Both have displayed horrific judgement, actions and neither have put the Steelers in a good position during several offseasons.

My point isn't really to stir the pot (though I like healthy discourse on subjects that make people uncomfortable...lol) My point is to say that the Steelers are not getting rid of Ben. They also realize that there could be alot of public outcry of racial injustice if we release/trade Holmes and not Ben. Therefore, I don't believe Holmes is going anywhere. At least not this season. They may not re-sign him next season. But, no one should suspect that we will be Holmes free this season.

BlackJackGold
04-02-2010, 07:14 PM
This depends a lot on how Goodell acts....

If ben is charged, he will be suspended indefinately, the same as Vick was.

At that point the Steelers have to say goodbye.


Holmes is more likely to be suspended for a 1-4 game period, but he has done enough to ensure that he will be pissing in a cup for the NFL as much as he has on his twitter account.

Shawn
04-02-2010, 07:18 PM
This depends a lot on how Goodell acts....

If ben is charged, he will be suspended indefinately, the same as Vick was.

At that point the Steelers have to say goodbye.


Holmes is more likely to be suspended for a 1-4 game period, but he has done enough to ensure that he will be pissing in a cup for the NFL as much as he has on his twitter account.

Yeah if BigRob's theory is correct...ugh. It won't matter. Ben will be gone...at the very least for this season. I'm not sure Holmes will be suspended unless he is charged. Has he been charged yet?

BlackJackGold
04-02-2010, 07:33 PM
The case was officially re-opened by the Orlando Police Dept.

Reading between the lines....

Holmes promissed that girl some cash so that she would not file charges and then thought he could stiff her.

This is his fourth run in....

Goodell doesn't care about guilt or innocence as determined by a trial.

Ask Pac Man...

Holmes will be suspended for some period of time.

Shawn
04-02-2010, 07:49 PM
The case was officially re-opened by the Orlando Police Dept.

Reading between the lines....

Holmes promissed that girl some cash so that she would not file charges and then thought he could stiff her.

This is his fourth run in....

Goodell doesn't care about guilt or innocence as determined by a trial.

Ask Pac Man...

Holmes will be suspended for some period of time.

Re-opened doesn't mean charged. It just means re-opened. If they press charges then I agree...he will be suspended. If they don't...I do not believe he will.

BlackJackGold
04-02-2010, 08:04 PM
The case was officially re-opened by the Orlando Police Dept.

Reading between the lines....

Holmes promissed that girl some cash so that she would not file charges and then thought he could stiff her.

This is his fourth run in....

Goodell doesn't care about guilt or innocence as determined by a trial.

Ask Pac Man...

Holmes will be suspended for some period of time.

Re-opened doesn't mean charged. It just means re-opened. If they press charges then I agree...he will be suspended. If they don't...I do not believe he will.


This Goodell guy thinks of himself as some type of wild wild west gun slinging sheriff.

He shoots from his hip acting acting as judge, jury and executioner.

This is Holme's 4th run in....

He's gonna take a bullet.

feltdizz
04-02-2010, 08:56 PM
Hmmm.... Honestly I don't really see how either players transgressions can trump the others.

Ben is still in worse shape in my opinion... more money means more responsibility. It's not like our WR corpes is beast with Sweed, Randle El, and Wallace either. If we get rid of Holmes it will be strictly for monetary reasons. We retain talent like Holmes who have done much worse then he has off the field.

Holmes is a very stupid guy though.. twitter is the window into an athletes mind state and he seems to be very immature.

bostonsteeler
04-02-2010, 10:16 PM
Holmes is a very stupid guy though.. twitter is the window into an athletes mind state and he seems to be very immature.

Was wondering when someone would point this out.
The guy's a mental midget.

We seem to have the range in the team. We have guys like MT and Ryan Clark who are ready to be politicians, we have guys like Ben and Hines who aren't Cicero, but don't come off as dunces, and then you get Tone..

BURGH86STEEL
04-07-2010, 12:16 PM
I wonder why they did not pick up Holmes' "issues" when they did back ground checks? I guess his talent overruled the question marks. I guess teams can't get over without drafting a few players with questionable characters.

It appears that both guys are stubborn. I am certain both know the repercussions of certain actions. IMO, both guys are on very thin ice. It may take a release or trade from the Steelers to "wake" both guys up.

Both players are in different employment situations. Ben is signed for several more seasons. Holmes is near the end of his contract. Ben is as good as gone if he is found guilty. Not sure what they will do if he is innocent. Ben will probably be suspended for up to 4 games for poor conduct. Holmes is probably gone after his contract is up. It will look bad if the release Holmes and keep Ben. The safest thing the organization can do is let things play out. That way they won't have to deal with issue of appearances.

spyboots
04-07-2010, 12:47 PM
Holmes will finish out his contract (this season) and will go elsewhere for the big bucks. He only cares about the money and will want a big payday.

feltdizz
04-07-2010, 12:57 PM
It's a little rude to say Holmes is "just about the money" when Ben has the largest contract in Steeler history. Is Ben all about the money? Will he take a pay cut to keep Holmes around?

SteelAbility
04-07-2010, 01:08 PM
Hmmm.... Honestly I don't really see how either players transgressions can trump the others.

Ben is still in worse shape in my opinion... more money means more responsibility. It's not like our WR corpes is beast with Sweed, Randle El, and Wallace either. If we get rid of Holmes it will be strictly for monetary reasons. We retain talent like Holmes who have done much worse then he has off the field.

Holmes is a very stupid guy though.. twitter is the window into an athletes mind state and he seems to be very immature.

You could pretty much tell he was immature when you saw him flex his biceps after he made a good play. :P Twitter erased any doubt. And yes, he's a mental midget, giving credit to his biceps for what his legs did. :wink:

feltdizz
04-07-2010, 01:29 PM
It's sucks because Ben and Holmes have recently given interviews talking about changing and being better teammates and humbling themselves... Ben's was a few months ago on ESPN60 and Holmes during and after the SB.

Now both of them get in trouble in VIP sections with women who appear to be immature. Not saying these guys cant enjoy themselves but they were the ones who said they were going to better themselves.

papillon
04-07-2010, 05:59 PM
It's sucks because Ben and Holmes have recently given interviews talking about changing and being better teammates and humbling themselves... Ben's was a few months ago on ESPN60 and Holmes during and after the SB.

Now both of them get in trouble in VIP sections with women who appear to be immature. Not saying these guys cant enjoy themselves but they were the ones who said they were going to better themselves.

It appears they'll better themselves as long as it doesn't interfere with their good time. Sometime bettering yourself means sacrifice and these guys have never had to sacrifice anything. Just my 2 cents, of course, I don't know them, so, maybe they have each made a sacrifice of some sort in their lives, but it doesn't appear that way.

Pappy

Shawn
04-07-2010, 07:13 PM
Pappy it's a maturity issue. And having things handed to you can certainly stunt growth. When I was young...I interacted with the world as how I felt the world should be. Now, I interact with the world as it is. Ben...thinks to himself...I should be able to go out and have a good time. I should be able to have relations with whoever I please. Maybe in a perfect world Ben...you are right. But, you live in the real world. And your behavior is irresponsible and reckless because you are not taking into account reality.

papillon
04-07-2010, 09:55 PM
Pappy it's a maturity issue. And having things handed to you can certainly stunt growth. When I was young...I interacted with the world as how I felt the world should be. Now, I interact with the world as it is. Ben...thinks to himself...I should be able to go out and have a good time. I should be able to have relations with whoever I please. Maybe in a perfect world Ben...you are right. But, you live in the real world. And your behavior is irresponsible and reckless because you are not taking into account reality.

I'm not a Sociologist or a Psychologist, so I can only posture my thoughts about their behavior as an armchair professional (much like I do as an armchair GM :P ), but it seems to me that maturity (or lack of) and stupidity could potentially wreck their careers.

In Ben's case you would think that there would be some learning after the first encounter in Nevada. I guess I'm a bit naive to how reckless great wealth can make a person.

Pappy

fezziwig
04-07-2010, 10:43 PM
I don't think the Steelers worry over Smokie too much about his Steeler future with Wallace and Hines on the team. AR too could sooth their worries for depth. I don't follow college ball but you never know, they may go after a number one pick at receiver if he is a steal at 18.

I wonder if the Steelers have told Ben to keep a low profile ? Do you guys think Ben is out and about like always ? This stuff about him not with the team seems to me the Steelers are really upset and questioning his Steeler future.

papillon
04-07-2010, 11:15 PM
I don't think the Steelers worry over Smokie too much about his Steeler future with Wallace and Hines on the team. AR too could sooth their worries for depth. I don't follow college ball but you never know, they may go after a number one pick at receiver if he is a steal at 18.

I wonder if the Steelers have told Ben to keep a low profile ? Do you guys think Ben is out and about like always ? This stuff about him not with the team seems to me the Steelers are really upset and questioning his Steeler future.

I personally think him staying away from the team is a decision that Ben, his attorney and the Steelers made together for the good of Ben and the team. If he shows up at OTAs the media wants information, they'll hound him and his teammates. If he isn't there the media can't assume that the team knows any more than they do, because, no one has been able to talk with Ben directly that they know of.

If charges are filed, I doubt we see Ben anywhere near the Steeler facility. If they're dropped he'll do an interview and then rejoin the team.

Just my opinion
Pappy