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Dee Dub
04-02-2010, 12:05 PM
That Rolando McClain can come right in as a rookie and start for the Steelers? Or dont believe for that matter.

State your case one way or the other and please do not give me the old “Steeelers 3-4 “ defense is too complexed for a rookie to grasp” line. McClain played in Saban’s 3-4 defense and it too is considered a difficult system to learn. There are a lot of similarities to the two systems.

Lebsteel
04-02-2010, 12:14 PM
That Rolando McClain can come right in as a rookie and start for the Steelers? Or dont believe for that matter.

State your case one way or the other and please do not give me the old “Steeelers 3-4 “ defense is too complexed for a rookie to grasp” line. McClain played in Saban’s 3-4 defense and it too is considered a difficult system to learn. There are a lot of similarities to the two systems.
I was thinking about that this morning. I know he could start, but with Farrior, Foote and Timmons, I think we are paying a lot of $$ to two backups. Do we cut Farrior or let him play one more year as the starter and have McClain do spot duty? What about Foote? Fox as a backup is a given, I guess, but it seems like we have too many ILBs to draft another one and expect the rookie to start unless someone goes.

I really believe we have got to do all that we can do (within reason) to get either Thomas, Haden, Berry or Wilson in Rd. 1 or trade down and do some trading to get a low first and higher 2nd Rd pick. In a trade down, I'd like Odrick and then McCourty/Jackson/Franks in Rd. 2.

RuthlessBurgher
04-02-2010, 12:20 PM
I think McClain would be an excellent buck linebacker for the Steelers (when Timmons moves over to Farrior's mack spot). But if we drafted him, since we already have so much depth at ILB right now, we would not need him to start right away (even though I think both physically and mentally, he could very well contribute as a rookie). We'd have the luxury of allowing him to learn the system instead of throwing him into the fire right off the bat. He could play special teams as a rookie while being in situational rotational mix on defense with the likes of Timmons, Farrior, Foote, and Fox.

McClain is being overlooked by folks on this board now because I think that most just assume that the Giants will take him ahead of us, so there isn't much to discuss. But what if the Giants feel that Weatherspoon is a better fit for the 4-3 defense they run (while McClain would be a better fit for the 3-4 defense we run)? If the Giants take Weatherspoon instead, and Earl Thomas is off the board (and we don't trade up for the likes of Berry or Haden), McClain is a distinct possibility to be available at #18 (inside backers have a tendency to slide, while the Chron's disease revelation won't necessarily cripple his draft stock, I doubt that it helps).

In 2011, McClain could be our Levon Kirkland to go with Timmons playing the Chad Brown role, Harrison as Greg Lloyd, and Woodley becoming like Kevin Greene. Farrior would likely move on with Foote as McClain's backup and Fox as Timmons' backup.

Dee Dub
04-02-2010, 12:24 PM
Good stuff. My thinking here is what player in this entire draft that Steelers could actually be in reach of drafting could come in and start?? And if this team really isnt that far away from another championship doenst an immediate impact player help that??

Just a thought.

Shawn
04-02-2010, 12:35 PM
No...the D is much too complex. I hope that helps. :D

RuthlessBurgher
04-02-2010, 12:38 PM
Good stuff. My thinking here is what player in this entire draft that Steelers could actually be in reach of drafting could come in and start?? And if this team really isnt that far away from another championship doenst an immediate impact player help that??

Just a thought.

The positions with the most immediate needs for upgrading the starter is CB, RG, and C. Could Joe Haden or Kyle Wilson beat out William Gay, Joe Burnett, or Keenan Lewis to be a starter? Possibly. Although, knowing what I know about the Steelers, I bet it would not happen right away. Perhaps if the rookie shows promise and we continued to struggle in the secondary like we did last season, maybe the rook gets inserted into the starting lineup during the bye week or something like that.

As for RG and C, I think that Mike Iupati and Maurkice Pouncey would be upgrades over Trai Essex and Justin Hartwig, but I don't think either would start right away. I think there is too much of a jump for Iupati from Idaho to the NFL, and Pouncey would have to transition from the Florida spread to the pro-style NFL. If we drafted either player, I doubt that he would start any sooner than 2011.

And any other position, linebacker, d-line, safety, offensive tackle, running back, etc. would play a back-up role in 2010 as well. Not that this is a bad thing. I'm glad that we don't have many glaring holes that would require a rookie to come in and have to start right away. I think it is better for the kid to learn the system and adapt to the speed of the NFL game before relying on him to start.

Shawn
04-02-2010, 12:45 PM
I agree with you Ruthless. Just based on Steeler history no rookie will come in an start right away. I believe Iupati and Pouncey are instant upgrades. I believe Haden, Thomas and Wilson would be as well. None would start. You could bring in Berry and he wouldn't beat out Clark right away.

WoodleyofTroy
04-02-2010, 12:51 PM
Good stuff. My thinking here is what player in this entire draft that Steelers could actually be in reach of drafting could come in and start?? And if this team really isnt that far away from another championship doenst an immediate impact player help that??

Just a thought.

Earl Thomas in nickel and dime packages would be an immediate impact.

Shawn
04-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Good stuff. My thinking here is what player in this entire draft that Steelers could actually be in reach of drafting could come in and start?? And if this team really isnt that far away from another championship doenst an immediate impact player help that??

Just a thought.

Earl Thomas in nickel and dime packages would be an immediate impact.

Of every draft prospect Thomas and Spiller are probably the only two guys who would see immediate PT. Haden and Wilson might start in the nickle and dime as well.

Lebsteel
04-02-2010, 01:11 PM
Good stuff. My thinking here is what player in this entire draft that Steelers could actually be in reach of drafting could come in and start?? And if this team really isnt that far away from another championship doenst an immediate impact player help that??

Just a thought.
I just read another thread with Dulac's interview where he says our two choices are Pouncey and Graham. DD, I know you don't want Graham, but I think he would fit into the same initial backup role as McClain would except at OLB. Rotate in to rest Harrison and Woodley and learn for a year without being thrown into the fire. I don't like Pouncey at 18 because I think we could get Walton at 52 or maybe even Rd. 3.

Shawn
04-02-2010, 01:15 PM
Good stuff. My thinking here is what player in this entire draft that Steelers could actually be in reach of drafting could come in and start?? And if this team really isnt that far away from another championship doenst an immediate impact player help that??

Just a thought.
I just read another thread with Dulac's interview where he says our two choices are Pouncey and Graham. DD, I know you don't want Graham, but I think he would fit into the same initial backup role as McClain would except at OLB. Rotate in to rest Harrison and Woodley and learn for a year without being thrown into the fire. I don't like Pouncey at 18 because I think we could get Walton at 52 or maybe even Rd. 3.

I would rather have Graham over Pouncey because I like Tennant and believe he represents a better value later. I do not like mid/early first round interior linemen.

Lebsteel
04-02-2010, 01:19 PM
I agree with you Ruthless. Just based on Steeler history no rookie will come in an start right away. I believe Iupati and Pouncey are instant upgrades. I believe Haden, Thomas and Wilson would be as well. None would start. You could bring in Berry and he wouldn't beat out Clark right away.
OK, using that logic then, what about our 2nd pick from last year, Urbik? Is he a bust and only good as a backup RG? We all bust Sweed's chops for being a bust, is it fair to start on Urbik if we draft Iupati or even Pouncey since he would probably be used at RG in his first year? I see immediate use for Thomas, Haden, Berry and Wilson, less of an immediate use for Graham, McClain, or Odrick. I see a total concession that we wasted our 2nd pick from last year if we draft an OL at 18. Remember that Lewis was our late 3rd Rd pick and Burnett was a 5th rounder, so I don't expect the same thing from them as I do Urbik. IF he is a "bust", then let's move on and take the best value C and/or RG that we can get.

flippy
04-02-2010, 01:53 PM
Good stuff. My thinking here is what player in this entire draft that Steelers could actually be in reach of drafting could come in and start?? And if this team really isnt that far away from another championship doenst an immediate impact player help that??

Just a thought.

Earl Thomas in nickel and dime packages would be an immediate impact.

Of every draft prospect Thomas and Spiller are probably the only two guys who would see immediate PT. Haden and Wilson might start in the nickle and dime as well.

I think a lot of rookies could have a shot to start.

Any of the potential DBs could compete for Gay's spot.

The ILBs should be competing with Foote/Fox for Timmons former position. We're not gonna cut Farrior, but I think his best is truly behind him and he should be backing up Timmons now.

A Guard or Center could start. And if one of the stud tackles slipped, why not let him compete with the slow footed Starks or Colon. If you get a stud tackle, why not move Max back to the right and Colon inside. We could trade up for one of the elite tackles.

I think we're picking high enough that we should expect to get an immediate starter.

SteelCzar76
04-02-2010, 04:53 PM
Good stuff. My thinking here is what player in this entire draft that Steelers could actually be in reach of drafting could come in and start?? And if this team really isnt that far away from another championship doenst an immediate impact player help that??

Just a thought.

Earl Thomas in nickel and dime packages would be an immediate impact.

Of every draft prospect Thomas and Spiller are probably the only two guys who would see immediate PT. Haden and Wilson might start in the nickle and dime as well.

I think Haden or Wilson would come out of camp starting in place of Gay. These kids while maybe not on the level of say a Revis,...are still blue chip corners. And Gay (and possibly even Burnett) is exactly what his prospect rating said he was coming out,....career nickelback at his very best.

ANPSTEEL
04-04-2010, 11:59 AM
McClain doesn't start.

Not becuase of the difficulty of the D- but because there are at least 2 players ahead of him on the depth chart.

Here is how McClain gets on the field in yr 1 for the Steelers.

He comes to camp- shows he understands the field calls, stays with his responsibilities.

Farrior gets hurt- Timmons moves over. or Farrior is replaced by Timmons coming out of camp.

next-

Foote gets hurt at some point during the season.

McClain comes in and never gives up the job.


In respect to some of the other players indicated in this post-

Thomas sees the field as Nickle coming out of camp. Maybe- starts at CB... but likely doesn't take that starting CB role until mid season.

Spiller- sees the field on special teams and "special" sub packages. No way is he the starting 3rd down back. How the heck is he going to block NFL sized DLineman and LBers.

Wilson- Similar to Thomas- he is probably a more natural corner- so may start at CB sooner.

IMO, the only positions that a #1 pick could come in and start at, right away- baring injury to an existing starter- are Center and RG. No other positions- irrespective of who is drafted- is going to start, 1st game, over the existing players. IMO, this goes for corner as well. (although that is the only other position with that possibility.)

Shawn
04-04-2010, 12:10 PM
I agree with you Ruthless. Just based on Steeler history no rookie will come in an start right away. I believe Iupati and Pouncey are instant upgrades. I believe Haden, Thomas and Wilson would be as well. None would start. You could bring in Berry and he wouldn't beat out Clark right away.
OK, using that logic then, what about our 2nd pick from last year, Urbik? Is he a bust and only good as a backup RG? We all bust Sweed's chops for being a bust, is it fair to start on Urbik if we draft Iupati or even Pouncey since he would probably be used at RG in his first year? I see immediate use for Thomas, Haden, Berry and Wilson, less of an immediate use for Graham, McClain, or Odrick. I see a total concession that we wasted our 2nd pick from last year if we draft an OL at 18. Remember that Lewis was our late 3rd Rd pick and Burnett was a 5th rounder, so I don't expect the same thing from them as I do Urbik. IF he is a "bust", then let's move on and take the best value C and/or RG that we can get.

Where did I say any of that? I don't believe the Steelers like to play rookies traditionally. Never said anything about anyone being a bust.

Lebsteel
04-04-2010, 12:46 PM
Shawn, I didn't say you did. I'm just asking your thoughts on Urbik. Do we need to draft Iupati if Urbik was simply sitting for a year to learn the system and he is now ready to play RG OR do the Steelers realize that Urbik is not going to work and they have to try again to get a dominating guard?

Shawn
04-04-2010, 12:51 PM
Shawn, I didn't say you did. I'm just asking your thoughts on Urbik. Do we need to draft Iupati if Urbik was simply sitting for a year to learn the system and he is now ready to play RG OR do the Steelers realize that Urbik is not going to work and they have to try again to get a dominating guard?

There are thoughts that Urbik is moving to center. Also, the fact that Foster was able to start over Urbik is concerning. Those are my two initial thoughts on Urbik. I seen alot of him in college and was impressed but word is he is struggling to make the transition. Who knows where he is at now. Personally, I think we draft Pouncey over Iupati.

D Rock
04-04-2010, 12:58 PM
Shawn, I didn't say you did. I'm just asking your thoughts on Urbik. Do we need to draft Iupati if Urbik was simply sitting for a year to learn the system and he is now ready to play RG OR do the Steelers realize that Urbik is not going to work and they have to try again to get a dominating guard?

There are thoughts that Urbik is moving to center. Also, the fact that Foster was able to start over Urbik is concerning. Those are my two initial thoughts on Urbik. I seen alot of him in college and was impressed but word is he is struggling to make the transition. Who knows where he is at now. Personally, I think we draft Pouncey over Iupati.

Foster had the ability to play multiple positions, and that got him on the gameday roster ahead of Urbik, IMO. He may have been further along at that point too, but gameday roster spots need to have the ability to fill in anywhere that is needed and Foster could do that.



As for McClain, there's only two ways I see him getting on the field much this year. First is if he dominates so much that he makes it impossible to keep him out. Thats not likely seeing as how he's competing with two other former first round picks, one who has been a stud for years but may be over the hill and the other who is an athletic freak and now has 3 years of experience under his belt. He's also competing against two very capable backups.

The second option is that he is used in a sub package simply to get him playing time and have him ready for the next year. Assuming the coaches see this as Farrior's last useful season as a starter, and that Timmons will move in to his spot as a lot of people here seem to think he will...It would be smart to implement a package that moves Timmons over and inserts McClain into the hole. This should be used whenever games are comfortably in hand enough to try this for a series or two a game. Those two would clearly be the future starters and they should see what's available there sooner rather than later if McClain is ready to handle that.

BURGH86STEEL
04-04-2010, 02:48 PM
I agree with you Ruthless. Just based on Steeler history no rookie will come in an start right away. I believe Iupati and Pouncey are instant upgrades. I believe Haden, Thomas and Wilson would be as well. None would start. You could bring in Berry and he wouldn't beat out Clark right away.
OK, using that logic then, what about our 2nd pick from last year, Urbik? Is he a bust and only good as a backup RG? We all bust Sweed's chops for being a bust, is it fair to start on Urbik if we draft Iupati or even Pouncey since he would probably be used at RG in his first year? I see immediate use for Thomas, Haden, Berry and Wilson, less of an immediate use for Graham, McClain, or Odrick. I see a total concession that we wasted our 2nd pick from last year if we draft an OL at 18. Remember that Lewis was our late 3rd Rd pick and Burnett was a 5th rounder, so I don't expect the same thing from them as I do Urbik. IF he is a "bust", then let's move on and take the best value C and/or RG that we can get.

Where did I say any of that? I don't believe the Steelers like to play rookies traditionally. Never said anything about anyone being a bust.

The Steelers play rookies. Very few start but some rookies see time in games. I believe they try to get those guys as much playing time as possible.

Shawn
04-04-2010, 03:11 PM
I agree with you Ruthless. Just based on Steeler history no rookie will come in an start right away. I believe Iupati and Pouncey are instant upgrades. I believe Haden, Thomas and Wilson would be as well. None would start. You could bring in Berry and he wouldn't beat out Clark right away.
OK, using that logic then, what about our 2nd pick from last year, Urbik? Is he a bust and only good as a backup RG? We all bust Sweed's chops for being a bust, is it fair to start on Urbik if we draft Iupati or even Pouncey since he would probably be used at RG in his first year? I see immediate use for Thomas, Haden, Berry and Wilson, less of an immediate use for Graham, McClain, or Odrick. I see a total concession that we wasted our 2nd pick from last year if we draft an OL at 18. Remember that Lewis was our late 3rd Rd pick and Burnett was a 5th rounder, so I don't expect the same thing from them as I do Urbik. IF he is a "bust", then let's move on and take the best value C and/or RG that we can get.

Where did I say any of that? I don't believe the Steelers like to play rookies traditionally. Never said anything about anyone being a bust.

The Steelers play rookies. Very few start but some rookies see time in games. I believe they try to get those guys as much playing time as possible.

I would have to assume you read my other posts and knew what I meant. I think anyone with two eyes watching the Steelers have seen rookies get PT. They just rarely start.

WoodleyofTroy
04-04-2010, 04:17 PM
Shawn, do you have us trading up in your mock? Because you're missing a 5th round pick. We have 3 of them.


As for Steelers and rookies. Woodley could have been All pro and been the next Kendrell Bell to make the Pro Bowl as a rookie, but they opted for the less talented veteran Clark Haggans. That should explain their stance on the matter.

Shawn
04-04-2010, 04:30 PM
Shawn, do you have us trading up in your mock? Because you're missing a 5th round pick. We have 3 of them.


As for Steelers and rookies. Woodley could have been All pro and been the next Kendrell Bell to make the Pro Bowl as a rookie, but they opted for the less talented veteran Clark Haggans. That should explain their stance on the matter.

No, just didn't want a filler name. Still trying to decide who I think we will pick.

And I agree with your second statement. The Steelers rarely start rookies. Really good ones will see some PT.

SteelAbility
04-05-2010, 10:59 AM
Since the question is whether or not McLain COULD start and be productive, I would have to say the answer is a resounding Yes. He's behind on the depth chart, so it's a difference between theoretical and actual. It was obvious to all of us that Woodley was starting material his rookie year. He still didn't get the starts his rookie year (until maybe the end?).

frankthetank1
04-05-2010, 11:46 AM
yeah even woodley didnt get more pt until the end of the season when it was more obvious that haggans was washed up. didnt heath start? tuman was a blocking TE. why wouldnt haden or wilson start? who is going to keep a top rated cb off the field? gay or burnett? i doubt that.