The Need for CB- Underrated or Overrated?

[Chadman]

Nearly everyone has decided that a CB is a high priority for the Steelers in this draft. But is it really? When you look at it, the Steelers have a very young corp of CB's- you'd have to imagine that there is some improvement to be had in them. But how much?

Chadman is just doing a bit of research on the current Steeler CB's & will post it here for your discussion...lets see how great the need really is..

[Chadman]

#24
IKE TAYLOR

6'2" 195lbs

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200712/20071208mf_iketaylor_500.jpg

Firmly entrenched as the starting CB for the Steelers. Big, fast, strong. Great in coverage, but lacks playmaking hands. Young enough to be considered a starter for another 3-4 years. No need to replace, or even contemplate replacing Ike for a while yet. Along with Troy Polamalu, Ike is probably the most dynamic defender on the Steelers roster.

http://temple3.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/ike.jpg

4th Round - Ike Taylor Cornerback, LA-Laffayette 6'1, 191#
2005 Season review: Ike finally put it all together in 2005. His great speed was finally used to his advantage and he developed a reputation as a physical corner who could support the run. He opened the season as the starter and never looked back, eventually making a huge 4th quarter interception in the Super Bowl. Ike still needs to develop better ball skills - he dropped as many as 15 potential interceptions in 2005 - but the season was an indicator of great progress. Besides thebad game Monday night in Indy, he consistently matched up against the opposing teams #1 receiver. With his great speed and long arms, Ike is particularly well suited to convering Cincy's Chad Johnson which is an excellent sign for the future. The Steelers are looking at him as one their starting corners for many years to come. Trend: Up

2004 Season review: Taylor seemed to take a step back in 2004. He fell behind Colclough on the depth chart and it seemed to affect his play. He has great speed and ball skills, but he is lacking toughness. He gets pushed around - particularly on special teams and he isn't a sure tackler. Curtis Martin put a Hall of Fame straight arm on him in the playoffs. Still, with the renewed emphasis on no-contact after 5 yards, Taylor could thrive covering on an island. He has to get more physical and aggressive in his play to become a good player in 2005. Trend: Down

2003 Season review: Ike really looked great in the Pre-season, breaking up several passes. As the 2003 season wore on, he got more playing time in the Dime, especially with D. Washington on the bench. I REALLY liked his coverage skills and his tackling ability. I think Ike could be a starter in 2004, he's that good. He was a good kickoff returner, too. Trend: Up

Draft Day Impressions: This pick will make or break this year's draft class. Taylor has the potential to be a Pro Bowl cornerback. His athletic skills are incredible: 4.33 speed, 42" vertical, agile, great hands and a hard worker. He played only one year of Cornerback but when he went up against WR Bethel Johnson, New Engand's 2nd round pick this year, he blanketed him holding him to one catch the entire game. BLESTO had Taylor ranked as the 5th best athlete in this year's draft class. He reminds me a lot of Tennesee's 1st round pick CB Andre Woolfolk who is a converted Wide Receiver. The Steelers were seriously considering Woolfolk in the first round at #27 before they traded up to get Polamalu. In Taylor, they get the same outstanding athletic ability and potential, but at a much lower cost. If he doesn't reach his potential, the Steelers didn't waste a high pick. At the very least, he will be a demon on punt & kickoff coverages and maybe even as a Kickoff returner in 2003. I hope to see Taylor starting at Left Cornerback (replacing CB Dwayne Washington) and playing in Honolulu in 3 years. Grade: B, predicted grade after 3 years: A+

[RuthlessBurgher]

Ike's contract is up after this season, though, and he may ask for more than we are willing to pay. We have plenty of bodies at CB, but most of them look like nickel or dime DB's, not starting caliber corners.

It's true that we could use depth at safety, depth at linebacker, depth along the d-line, depth at RB, etc. but we could really use a potential STARTER at CB. We have starting safeties, linebackers, d-lineman, and running back, but what other CB are you comfortable starting other than Ike (who may be gone after this year)?

[Chadman]

#22

William Gay

5'10" 184lbs

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/slideshows/551/slideshow_55138/display_image.jpg

Struggled as a first year starter at CB. Was replaced by Deshea Townsend by season's end. Is that it for Gay? Is he done? It could be premature deciding that his days as a starter over. Was a surpriing success as a rookie in nickle/dime packages. Could he slide back into that role if another CB can assume the starters position? Young, and still developing. Did losing Troy effect Gay's play last season?

http://nimg.sulekha.com/Sports/original700/william-gay-eddie-royal-troy-polamalu-2009-11-9-22-40-17.jpg

BIOGRAPHY: Three-year starter who also played with the first team as a freshman. All-Conference selection last season after totaling 60/6/13.

POSITIVES: Tough, feisty cornerback with marginal speed. Displays good instincts, locates the pass in the air and has a decisive move defending the throw. Displays a sense of timing and shows a burst of closing speed. Gives effort defending the run.

NEGATIVES: Lacks top-end speed and struggles staying downfield with opponents. Undersized, and is easily blocked from the action.

ANALYSIS: Taking his game to another level last year, Gay showed enough skill and ability to get consideration as a zone cornerback in dime situations.

PROJECTION: Early Seventh Round

[hawaiiansteel]

Ike's contract is up after this season, though, and he may ask for more than we are willing to pay. We have plenty of bodies at CB, but most of them look like nickel or dime DB's, not starting caliber corners.

It's true that we could use depth at safety, depth at linebacker, depth along the d-line, depth at RB, etc. but we could really use a potential STARTER at CB. We have starting safeties, linebackers, d-lineman, and running back, but what other CB are you comfortable starting other than Ike (who may be gone after this year)?



$$$ - couldn't agree more!

[Chadman]

#40

Joe Burnett

5'9" 192lbs

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/gallery/090822/GAL-09Aug22-2512/media/PHO-09Aug22-175227.jpg

Joe Burnett's drafting last year was met with great excitement by many posters here. A playmaker in college, if undersized, he has heralded as a potential starter down the track. Got to start at a point last season after Gay's struggles. If we draft a CB this year, does that hamper the development opportunities of a player like Burnett?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200904/burnett3_330.jpg

Joe Burnett - After watching the preseason games, my one thought about Burnett - man is he small. But there are successful corners in the NFL the same size as Burnett, 5'10" and 190 lbs. The cornerback out of Southern Florida confirmed his reputation as a playmaker by intercepting multiple passes at training camp and picking a pass against the Cardinals. Thought t have potential to make the team as a returner, Burnett has fumbled two punt returns in the preseason - a quick way to get relegated to Ricardo Colcough-style hatred in the burgh.

"But, all in all, Burnett looks like not only a keeper but a potentially dynamic player for the Steelers."

Joe Burnett CB 5'9 192 Central Florida 4.57
By: Robert Davis

Burnett adjusted very quickly to the college game, becoming a starter as a freshman in 2005. He was fantastic as a return man and corner, earning 1st team Conference USA honors in both capacities. He had two punt returns for touchdowns, but also had 63 tackles and five picks on defense. As a junior, an ankle injury hindered him late in the season and caused him to miss two games but he did pick off one pass while posting 50 tackles on the year. As a junior, Burnett bounced back in a big way, again earning 1st team All Conference USA honors as a returner and corner. He had 64 tackles and six picks, while adding his third career TD return on special teams. Burnett earned All C-USA honors and even some All American accolades for a senior season in which he had 44 tackles, 4.5 for loss, and four interceptions. As a return man, he averaged 14.5 yards per punt return and 28.7 yards per kick return, including two touchdowns.

Strengths

Burnett is a playmaker, plain and simple. He has a nose for the football and always seems to be around the action. He is an active and aggressive corner that is willing to make a tackle but he thrives in coverage. Burnett is an excellent cover corner, showcasing the quickness and change of direction ability to remain with receivers in and out of their routes. With the ball in the air, Burnett shows the ability to locate it and go up and make a play on it before the receiver can haul it in. Along with his standout cover skills, Burnett will bring the added dimension of being a home run threat as a returner. He uses the same skills to cover receivers to run away from defenders when he has the ball in his hands.

Weaknesses

Burnett shows nice all around skills but he can be too aggressive at times. He can try and make the big play and allow the receiver to get behind him. His natural athleticism and the lack of superior talent in the opponent on a week to week basis allow him to do that in college but it will not cut it in the NFL. Burnett may lack the tremendous recovery speed to make up for his mistakes. His size is also only average but his toughness allows him to make up for it.

Future

There are a lot of questions at the corner position in this years draft, but there is quite a bit of talent. Joe Burnett is a player that has gone under the radar and could be a big time find for someone in the mid rounds on draft day. He is one of the biggest playmakers in this draft as a corner and return man and that value will carry over to the NFL. He checked in a bit shorter than expected at the combine but aside from that and his 4.57 40 time, he was impressive. He showed excellent quickness and fluid hips, and actually was stronger than expected, knocking out 22 reps on the bench. Burnett’s game is very similar to former UCF corner Asante Samuel. Do not be surprised to see him outplay a lot of corners draft ahead of him on draft day.

[Chadman]

#20

Keenan Lewis

6'0" 208lbs

http://steelersmill.com/files/2009/06/keenan-lewis.jpg

Surprisingly, considering Lewis was picked in the 3rd round, there is less talk of Lewis as a starting CB than Joe Burnett. This is a guy that has the prototypical Steeler CB size. He was, by all reports, looking good in Training Camp last season. Apparently had some back issues which hampered his development. Are we overlooking the player destined to be the new starting CB?

http://steelerstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/keenan-lewis.jpg

Keenan Lewis - Mike Wallace's high school teammate has received positive remarks in training camp for his ball skills and positioning. Lewis is a big cornerback, 6'1" and 210 lbs, who is expected to provide physical, bump-and-run type coverage for the team. He's been compared to Ike Taylor in build and style of play. Other than generic praise for Lewis, I haven't seen much written about him. Dick Lebeau seems to have positive remarks. That's good enough for me. Lewis has been quiet in both preseason games, but, as a cornerback, that's not always a bad thing.

"You would probably compare [Lewis] to Ike," DB coach Ray Horton told reporters. "He's 6-foot, 200 pounds and runs a 4.55 (40-yard dash). He'll be able to run up the field with men just like Ike. You have to stop the run and make (teams) throw the ball and he is a big, physical corner, a la Ike."

"I'm going to the Super Bowl," said Lewis, a cornerback from Oregon State who was drafted in the third round. "I'll find anyway I can, even if it's on special teams. That's my goal -- to help this team get back to the Super Bowl. Whatever I can do to enhance the situation, I'm going to do."

Q:Do you think Keenan Lewis makes the team??
Ed Bouchette: Yes, he's looked very good in training camp. I don't see how he doesn't make it.

Rookie cornerback Keenan Lewis is setting his goals high. “Definitely (NFL Defensive) Rookie of the Year and I want to go to the Pro Bowl,” he said. “If I can’t do that, I fail.” Strong words for a third-round draft pick who isn’t even a starter. So why would he put his goals so high? “I feel I’m ready,” he said. “I don’t know if I’ll have the opportunity to start (this year), but I feel I will have the opportunity to play. Special teams, anything. Hopefully, I’ll get in on defense.”

Positives: Rare height for the position. … Aggressive at the line of scrimmage. … At his best in press coverage where he can get his long arms on the receiver and disrupt the timing of the passing game. … Good foot quickness to turn and run with the receiver. … Plants, drives and closes quickly. … Gets his hands on lot of passes. … Has the experience and intelligence to operate well in zone coverage. … Enjoyed a solid week of practice at the Senior Bowl.

Negatives: Questionable deep speed. … Lacks the soft hands for the interception. … Misjudges passes and allows too many to get into his chest. … Generally a reliable open-field tackler, but likes to duck his head and swipe, leading to some missed tackles. … Can get a bit grabby downfield, which will lead to pass interference calls at the next level. … Willing in run support, but was protected by a physical and experienced front seven, and prefers to stand around the pile, rather than throw his body into it.

[Chadman]

#35

Trae Williams

5'10" 195lbs

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0ahs62N9rIeLv/610x.jpg

Williams was picked up during the season. Coming into the draft, he was a promising player that was well regarded. Did the Steelers pick up a surprise gem? Might only ever fit as a nickle/dime guy, but they have their place on a team's roster.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02a0edv2Bz8S3/610x.jpg

Positives: Has a lean frame with room to carry at least another 10 pounds of bulk without the added weight impacting his quickness … Intense competitor who might lose physical battles, but it is not because of a lack of effort … Won't impact a ballcarrier with his drag-down tackle style, but he does a good job of staying in front of the runner, grabbing and holding on until help arrives … Intelligent athlete with very good hand-eye coordination, vision and ability to recognize the patterns as they develop … Is very smooth in his backpedal, staying low in his pads with excellent transition quickness … Uses that speed to get a jump on the route to break up plays … Has the body control, balance and adjustment skills to get to off-target throws … Has a solid work ethic and while not vocal, he has been a good leader-by-example type … Needs to use his hands better in attempts to jam, but when he doesn't fight the ball, he can look it in for a clean interception … Has the quick feet to compensate for a marginal hand punch (in attempts to reroute), as he allows little cushion and has the recovery speed to get back into the play on the rare occasions he bites on pump fakes … Maintains good position on the receiver throughout the route, along with the hip flexibility and knowledge of taking good angles to close in a hurry … Has loose hips and is a smooth open-field runner, doing a nice job of flipping and accelerating without having to gather coming out of his breaks … Seldom separates for long when he is locked on his coverage assignment … Keeps the action in front of him playing in the zone and has a good feel for handling the switch-off … Makes plays in deep coverage and shows solid ball skills, which could be even better if he improves his timing competing for the jump ball … Has the hips and body control to get good depth in his pass drops and flashes tremendous acceleration running down the sideline (must learn not to bite on double moves) … Will come up and support vs. the run, but is not strong enough to take on the bigger offensive linemen … Has not done it often, but he has very good burst through the wedge on kickoff returns … Not the type that eyeballs the backfield too long (won't bite on play-action) … Shows good knee bend and lateral movement working his way down the line and has the loose hips to open up and generate a quick short-area burst to close.

Negatives: Has just adequate strength and lacks ideal size, as he struggles to handle bigger and stronger receivers … Needs to generate a stronger hand placement, as lacks pop in attempts to jam the receiver at the line of scrimmage … Does not hit with authority and is more of a drag-down type than a wrap-up tackler … Shows willingness vs. the run, but lacks the sand in his pants to prevent blockers from washing him out of the play … Has good leaping ability, but needs to time jumps better, as he will stop his feet, getting up before the ball reaches its high point … Despite his 16 interceptions, he lacks natural hands and has converted a few more interceptions into deflections by not fielding the ball cleanly … Spends too much time trying to slip past blockers in run support and becomes a non-factor on the play (must stack and control better with his hands) … Not the type that can clog the rush lane when asked to come up and support … Has very good timed speed, but must show a more explosive second gear to help him recover … Can be fooled by double moves … A former tailback but doesn't always use his vision to locate a clear path on interception returns … Good at making plays in front of him, but struggles to keep his head on a swivel, which causes him to lose sight of the ball trying to make the over-the-shoulder grab.

Compares To: JACQUES REEVES-Dallas … In the NFL, the left cornerback needs to be a shutdown type, as he will generally face the opposition's best receiver. He also needs to be a physical tackler, especially in run force, something that Williams has yet to display. He is strong in man coverage and can run stride for stride with receivers on long routes. Like Reeves, he might bring better value as a key performer in sub packages. Even with his 16 interceptions, his hands are only adequate. What he does well is anticipate the receiver's progression through the route. He gets a good break on the ball, but is more of a drag-down tackler, like Cowboys' cornerbacks Reeves and Terence Newman.

[Chadman]

The question, therefore, really is- should the Steelers persist with the guys on the roster? Yes, Ike's contract is up soon- but he's young enough, and thought of well enough, in the organisation that they will make re-signing him a priority.

Does drafting a Round 1 or 2 CB effectively remove the development of Joe Burnett, Keenan Lewis & William Gay from the considerations of the Steelers coaches?

Chadman will agree that Gay & Burnett certainly look more like 3rd CB types, but Lewis is the type of CB the Steelers look for. Put it this way- the Steelers have shown interest in Brandon Ghee, Chris Cook & Nolan Carroll- all very comparible in size, stature & college career records to Keenan Lewis.

Gay got abused last season, but so did the whole Steelers backfield. He was not a lone culprit. And he won't be the first 1st year starter to get picked on. Troy being out effected the whole DB corp- suddenly their #1 playmaker was removed & they were scrambling to plug holes. Add to that, Harrison & Woodley were slow starters last season, hitting their stride as the season went on. Was the damage done to the confidence of players like Gay by then?

Chadman is not saying the Steelers shouldn't draft a CB high. Just wondering if the Steelers will see it the same way as we do is all...

[hawaiiansteel]

here are 20 visits the Steelers have set up with draft prospects so far:

Purdue DL Michael Neal 3/29/10
Kansas S Darrell Stuckey 3/29/10
Penn State LB Navorro Bowman 3/29/10
Wake Forrest T Chris DeGeare 3/29/10
Tennessee G Jacques McClendon 3/30/10
Indiana T Rodger Saffold 3/30/10
Oregon RB LeGarrette Blount
MSU RB Anthony Dixon
Youngstown State WR Donald Jones
Illinois WR Arrelious Benn
Wake Forest CB Brandon Ghee
Maryland CB Nolan Carroll
William & Mary DE Adrian Tracy
Alabama CB Kareem Jackson
Boise State CB Kyle Wilson
Texas S/CB Earl Thomas
Penn State LB Sean Lee
West Virginia T Selvish Capers
Idaho G Mike Iupati
Marshall DE Albert McClellan



5 of the 20 players are CBs or players like Thomas the Steelers may be considering as a possible CB, and 4 out of those 5 would have to be drafted in Rounds 1 or 2...

do you think the Steelers might be considering CB as a big need?

[Chadman]

here are 20 visits the Steelers have set up with draft prospects so far:

Purdue DL Michael Neal 3/29/10
Kansas S Darrell Stuckey 3/29/10
Penn State LB Navorro Bowman 3/29/10
Wake Forrest T Chris DeGeare 3/29/10
Tennessee G Jacques McClendon 3/30/10
Indiana T Rodger Saffold 3/30/10
Oregon RB LeGarrette Blount
MSU RB Anthony Dixon
Youngstown State WR Donald Jones
Illinois WR Arrelious Benn
Wake Forest CB Brandon Ghee
Maryland CB Nolan Carroll
William & Mary DE Adrian Tracy
Alabama CB Kareem Jackson
Boise State CB Kyle Wilson
Texas S/CB Earl Thomas
Penn State LB Sean Lee
West Virginia T Selvish Capers
Idaho G Mike Iupati
Marshall DE Albert McClellan



5 of the 20 players are CBs or players like Thomas the Steelers may be considering as a possible CB, and 4 out of those 5 would have to be drafted in Rounds 1 or 2...

do you think the Steelers might be considering CB as a big need?

Certainly looks possible. It looks like there is a 2nd round WR on that list too. If CB, WR & OL are all considered high round needs, what does this say about the three 3rd round pick from last season?

[NW Steeler]

I think Keenan Lewis is obviously the big wildcard here. If the Steelers are high on him, then maybe they won't look at drafting a CB in the first two rounds. We have yet to see anything out of the guy. If they don't look at CB or S early, then maybe they will throw us a curve ball and draft Graham after all.... :stirpot

Draft Graham in round one and trade up to get Pouncey? Pouncey would most likely fill the hole at RG before shifting over to C. I didn't feel that drafting Graham made any sense at all, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes!

[Lebsteel]

I think Keenan Lewis is obviously the big wildcard here. If the Steelers are high on him, then maybe they won't look at drafting a CB in the first two rounds. We have yet to see anything out of the guy. If they don't look at CB or S early, then maybe they will throw us a curve ball and draft Graham after all.... :stirpot

Draft Graham in round one and trade up to get Pouncey? Pouncey would most likely fill the hole at RG before shifting over to C. I didn't feel that drafting Graham made any sense at all, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes!

I'd love to have Graham because he will be a playmaker on defense, but when would he ever see the field with Harrison and Woodley in front of him? Could he be part of a three man rotation at OLB? Several weeks ago we discussed (before Foote was signed) that Harrison could possibly move inside, but would that really happen? Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have Graham, than a certain OG or C, but I'm not sure Graham is realistic.

I guess the same reasoning would apply to my personal favorite, Jared Odrick, except, the Steelers seem to rotate the DL more than the OLBs. There's also the fact that we took Ziggy in Rd. 1 last year, so I doubt we go DL in Rd. 1 again, but I'd love to see it happen.

I do have to admit that most mock drafts now seem to have us taking Iupati, so maybe that is a good sign that we won't take him? :tt2

[hawaiiansteel]

I think Keenan Lewis is obviously the big wildcard here. If the Steelers are high on him, then maybe they won't look at drafting a CB in the first two rounds. We have yet to see anything out of the guy. If they don't look at CB or S early, then maybe they will throw us a curve ball and draft Graham after all.... :stirpot

Draft Graham in round one and trade up to get Pouncey? Pouncey would most likely fill the hole at RG before shifting over to C. I didn't feel that drafting Graham made any sense at all, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes!



whether it's basketball, soccer, lacrosse, or football you are talking about, one of the most important principles of defense is immediate pressure on the ball. Brandon Graham can provide that, he is the best pass rusher in this draft.


A Pre NFL Draft Look at Michigan Defensive End Brandon Graham

Mar 30, 2010


Height: 6'2"

Wieght: 270 pounds

Forty Time: Graham's 40 times are up in the air. His NFL combine run was clocked just north of 4.70, but he pulled a hammy during the run. On the other hand Graham's also been clocked at 4.52 when not getting probed by the NFL doctors at the combine.

General Dimensions: A mass of muscle and anger. Graham's 6'1"-6'2" height is somewhat deceiving, as he possesses the limbs of a taller man. I beleive it was Todd McShay or one of the other ESPN analysts who remarked that Graham's pad level is the exact same as Jerry Hughes from TCU, it's just that Graham has no neck whatsoever. If Graham had a neck, there'd be nothing to knock down his draft status. But he doesn't have a neck, so people who haven't seen him question his size.

The Stats: Take a look at the last two years' numbers. They speak for themselves. Graham did all this despite playing on the two worst Michigan Wolverine defenses of all time. To put that in context, Michigan's been playing football since1879. Now, on to the numbers:

2009 G Solo Tckl Ast Sack TFL FF INT PBU Block Hurries
Brandon Graham 12 42 22 10.5 26.0 2 0 2 2 1
2008 G Solo Tckl Ast Sack TFL FF INT PBU Block Hurries
Brandon Graham 12 29 17 10.0 20.0 2 0 2 0 1


Prior to 2008, Graham was still growing into his body and learning the craft, so he didn't see the field at the same level. Originally a linebacker in high school, Michigan recruited Graham as a Five Star project at DE. Once he was on campus, Michigan slowly groomed him as defensive end, keeping him off the field other than special teams and spot duty for his first two years. As a result, Graham saw the field full time as a junior and blossomed into a star.

Awards: All Big 10 Honors (2008, 2009), AP All-American Honors (2008, 2009), 2010 Senior Bowl MVP, Hendricks Award finalist (2009), Big 10 co-MVP Silver Football Award winner (2009).

The Twitter Summary: For you twitter addicts who require things in 140 characters or less, here you go:

Brandon Graham: The best DE in the NFL Draft. Powerful, strong, fast. All the moves. TFL and sack machine.


Things the Pro Scouts Get Right:

Graham is renlentless. I've yet to see a report saying anything other than glowing things about Graham's motor, determination, and heart on the football field. I've yet to see a NFL Draft report that says anything bad about what the guy is capable of on the football field. He's fast. He's smart. He's insanely strong. He's a dedicated player on and off the field. He's kept his nose clean. I think if he was two inches taller there'd be discussions that he should be the Number One player drafted. Graham is equally persistent and accomplished at defending the pass and the run. You don't rack up 64 tackles in a pass rush only mode. However, I will acknowledge that Graham does not have any experience as a LB (at least since High School). Even though they'd occassionally drop him into shallow coverage in an attempt to confuse the OLine, that was rarer than a beauty queen at a Star Trek convention. If he's drafted as a LB, he's going to need some coaching.

Things the Pro Scouts Don't Account For:

This all comes back to height. I don't get this. Somehow because he's an inch shorter than one or two dudes all of a sudden he can't play football. I remember a conversation two years ago about Jake Long where people said his arms weren't long enough. I mean WTF? All this height nonsense has led to people asking if he can keep his hands high enough to ward off blockers. Really? One of Graham's strengths is controlling the engagement with his own hands, forcing down the tackle's and disposing of him. As you can see, this height thing takes on a life of its own and creates stupid questions that simply watching him play would disspell. One other question I've seen raised is his speed. Again, I don't get this at all. Brandon Graham tracked down Javohn Ringer from behind. He caught Terrell Pryor from behind. What more do you need to see? He explodes into the backfield, and possesses a tremendous first step. If he can blow into the backfield the way he does andtrack down two on the Big Ten's fastest players, yeah, I'd say he's fast enough to play DE or LB.


Thing to Keep in Mind: What you want to know about a player coming out of college is how he fares against real competition, e.i. the best college players. Some guys you don't have that type of information. But in Graham's case, you do. Graham went up against seven draft rated players during the regular season (including a public depantsing of Bryan Bulaga) and then spent the Senior Bowl giving swirlies to any Tackle or Guard unfortunate enough to end up across from him.

http://www.maizenbrew.com/2010/3/30/138 ... t-michigan (http://www.maizenbrew.com/2010/3/30/1385924/a-pre-nfl-draft-look-at-michigan)

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Western+Michigan+v+Michigan+y6YSvvunQALl.jpg

[Chadman]

If a CB is drafted at #18, but doesn't start his rookie year- who does start?

If a rookie CB is drafted early, without the intention of starting him, why not gamble on letting Lewis & Burnett win the spot from Gay? And forego the draft choice of a CB?

[williar]

I'm sold on Brandon Graham. In fact, this seems to be the smartest prospect I have heard discussed so far. From what I saw on tape last of season, we need more playmakers on defense. And you can never have enough pass rushers. Everybody's pimpin OL OL. Yearh they need some help too. But the way I see it, we had a 4,000 plus yard passer, a 1,200 yard rusher who started only about 12 games, and two 1,000 yard receivers. I know Ben gets sacked a lot but many of those sacks are on him.

IMO the offense ain't broke. I can live with that kind of production on offense for another year. The defense on the other hand needs some youth, depth and playmakers.

[Shoe]

HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO FOCUS ON YOUR COMMENTS WHEN YOU HAVE THAT PICTURE ON YOUR SIG? (who is that?)

I consider CB to be a major need. You can't count on Ike 100% at this point. He may be young in the traditional sense. But he also does have a lot of football behind him already. Gay--it goes without saying that this guy underwhelmed tremendously in his first year as starter. Burnett dropped that F-n SURE INT (that coincidentally would have sealed that game, and probably a playoff berth... I still don't know why people didn't explode on that. THAT F-N BALL WAS RIGHT IN HIS HANDS. MY 3-YEAR OLD NIECE COULDN'T CATCH THAT; BUT MY 10-YEAR OLD NEPHEW PROBABLY WOULD'VE. In any case, I'm getting over it. :wink: )

Going into this draft process, I actually didn't consider it as big a need... but I've come to appreciate the situation a bit better.

[Chadman]

Who is that??

WHO IS THAT????


THAT...is Jen Hawkins my fine footwearing friend. And don't forget it in the future.. :D

[Chadman]

As for Joe Burnett's dropped INT...let's put it in some perspective here...Joe Burnett, little known rookie 5th round pick, starting for the first time...drops the INT...it's not like it was as big a drop as say, this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36wgL4VLHM

There are a lot of guys that drop picks.

[Oviedo]

I think Keenan Lewis is obviously the big wildcard here. If the Steelers are high on him, then maybe they won't look at drafting a CB in the first two rounds. We have yet to see anything out of the guy. If they don't look at CB or S early, then maybe they will throw us a curve ball and draft Graham after all.... :stirpot

Draft Graham in round one and trade up to get Pouncey? Pouncey would most likely fill the hole at RG before shifting over to C. I didn't feel that drafting Graham made any sense at all, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes!

I'd love to have Graham because he will be a playmaker on defense, but when would he ever see the field with Harrison and Woodley in front of him? Could he be part of a three man rotation at OLB? Several weeks ago we discussed (before Foote was signed) that Harrison could possibly move inside, but would that really happen? Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have Graham, than a certain OG or C, but I'm not sure Graham is realistic.

I guess the same reasoning would apply to my personal favorite, Jared Odrick, except, the Steelers seem to rotate the DL more than the OLBs. There's also the fact that we took Ziggy in Rd. 1 last year, so I doubt we go DL in Rd. 1 again, but I'd love to see it happen.

I do have to admit that most mock drafts now seem to have us taking Iupati, so maybe that is a good sign that we won't take him? :tt2

Brandon Graham would probably see the field sooner and more often than any CB we drafted. It would be easy to rotate him in and give Woodley or Harrison a breather in obvious pas situations.

I think we all need to have concern with the second half drop off Harrison had last season...only two sacks in the last 8 games. Is he wearing down faster than expected because of his "bullrush" style? Did he have an injury we don't know about and tried to play through it because we have no depth at OLB?

I think Graham would be a great pick at #18.

[steeler_george]

The need for DB is over rated, sure we could always welcome more top talent. Imagine another CB, who could shut down and make picks, ala Revis. And having Ike our number 2 corner. But that is a luxury, not a need, my friends... Unless we are planning on the future with a departed Ike.

We have in DB:

Palomolou-- the back bone of the D and especially the DB he makes everyone a playmaker.
Ike -- he can cover the best WR-only if he can catch
Gay--not as bad everyone thinks, even he got replaced by Deshea, I think the whole D last year played horrible with out Pol. Now only if Gay could play how he shared time with mcfadden in that SB run...
Clark -- with polumoulo back he will be great in his role again
Palomolo -- he is so good, and all over the place, there has to be 2 of them

Deshea - good dependable, age factor?
Lewis/Burnet - can they make progression how all steeler players make in year 2--we all saw some flashes last year and then we saw the ugly too.
Allen - better than Carter...and that is a sight for sore eyes


I think with Polomolou back he just makes everyone around him so much better (ie. T. Carter) A simple chain reaction. With Polom back, Clark can foucus again on playing his role...protecting the deep ball and cover help. With Clarks support, the CBs will play much better knowing he has their backs.

[Oviedo]

As for Joe Burnett's dropped INT...let's put it in some perspective here...Joe Burnett, little known rookie 5th round pick, starting for the first time...drops the INT...it's not like it was as big a drop as say, this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36wgL4VLHM

There are a lot of guys that drop picks.

Yea it was a drop but Burnett put himself in the position to make the play. As I have said since I started "pimping" Burnett before last year's draft, he breaks on the ball better than anyone I have ever seen. He just explodes after it. Obviously I'm not a professional coach but even to my layman eyes it is noticeable.

I think the only question with Burnett is whether he can handle taller receivers but that is an issue for almost all CBs nowadays because of the size of WRs and the rules that prohibit DB contact with them. It will be an issue for both Haden or Thomas who only have I think an inch on Burnett but are being touted like they are much bigger.

Very few CBs are 6' tall or over because colleges are going to faster quicker guys (who tend to be slightly shorter) to deal with spread offenses.

[ramblinjim]

We also can't forget that Aaron Smith was out too and that's a huge deal on our pass rush and in our run game.

Graham would be a great give, but let's not forget that we have three thirty somethings on our front three that needs to have some youth worked in...... Not sure if Harris is the answer....and we don't have a replacement for Big Snack.

A later round Corner that I like is that kid Carrol from Maryland.

[RuthlessBurgher]

The need for DB is over rated, sure we could always welcome more top talent. Imagine another CB, who could shut down and make picks, ala Revis. And having Ike our number 2 corner. But that is a luxury, not a need, my friends... Unless we are planning on the future with a departed Ike.

We have in DB:

Palomolou-- the back bone of the D and especially the DB he makes everyone a playmaker.
Ike -- he can cover the best WR-only if he can catch
Gay--not as bad everyone thinks, even he got replaced by Deshea, I think the whole D last year played horrible with out Pol. Now only if Gay could play how he shared time with mcfadden in that SB run...
Clark -- with polumoulo back he will be great in his role again
Palomolo -- he is so good, and all over the place, there has to be 2 of them

Deshea - good dependable, age factor?
Lewis/Burnet - can they make progression how all steeler players make in year 2--we all saw some flashes last year and then we saw the ugly too.
Allen - better than Carter...and that is a sight for sore eyes


I think with Polomolou back he just makes everyone around him so much better (ie. T. Carter) A simple chain reaction. With Polom back, Clark can foucus again on playing his role...protecting the deep ball and cover help. With Clarks support, the CBs will play much better knowing he has their backs.

If getting a legit #1 CB is a luxury, and not a need, then what the hell is a need?

[Oviedo]

The need for DB is over rated, sure we could always welcome more top talent. Imagine another CB, who could shut down and make picks, ala Revis. And having Ike our number 2 corner. But that is a luxury, not a need, my friends... Unless we are planning on the future with a departed Ike.

We have in DB:

Palomolou-- the back bone of the D and especially the DB he makes everyone a playmaker.
Ike -- he can cover the best WR-only if he can catch
Gay--not as bad everyone thinks, even he got replaced by Deshea, I think the whole D last year played horrible with out Pol. Now only if Gay could play how he shared time with mcfadden in that SB run...
Clark -- with polumoulo back he will be great in his role again
Palomolo -- he is so good, and all over the place, there has to be 2 of them

Deshea - good dependable, age factor?
Lewis/Burnet - can they make progression how all steeler players make in year 2--we all saw some flashes last year and then we saw the ugly too.
Allen - better than Carter...and that is a sight for sore eyes


I think with Polomolou back he just makes everyone around him so much better (ie. T. Carter) A simple chain reaction. With Polom back, Clark can foucus again on playing his role...protecting the deep ball and cover help. With Clarks support, the CBs will play much better knowing he has their backs.

If getting a legit #1 CB is a luxury, and not a need, then what the hell is a need?

I think the debate really is are any of the CBs being pimped in this year's draft "legit #1 CBs?" Is there really a difference between a Joe Haden, a Kyle Wilson, a Brandon Ghee, Patrick Robinson, etc, etc.

IMO, and I think one shared by many, there is no CB in this draft who stands out like a Shawn Springs, Darrell Revis, Nnamdi Asomugha, Rod Woodson, etc. Just because they are the highest rated in this specific draft doesn't mean they are a "legit #1." It is a weak CB draft.

[RuthlessBurgher]

The need for DB is over rated, sure we could always welcome more top talent. Imagine another CB, who could shut down and make picks, ala Revis. And having Ike our number 2 corner. But that is a luxury, not a need, my friends... Unless we are planning on the future with a departed Ike.

We have in DB:

Palomolou-- the back bone of the D and especially the DB he makes everyone a playmaker.
Ike -- he can cover the best WR-only if he can catch
Gay--not as bad everyone thinks, even he got replaced by Deshea, I think the whole D last year played horrible with out Pol. Now only if Gay could play how he shared time with mcfadden in that SB run...
Clark -- with polumoulo back he will be great in his role again
Palomolo -- he is so good, and all over the place, there has to be 2 of them

Deshea - good dependable, age factor?
Lewis/Burnet - can they make progression how all steeler players make in year 2--we all saw some flashes last year and then we saw the ugly too.
Allen - better than Carter...and that is a sight for sore eyes


I think with Polomolou back he just makes everyone around him so much better (ie. T. Carter) A simple chain reaction. With Polom back, Clark can foucus again on playing his role...protecting the deep ball and cover help. With Clarks support, the CBs will play much better knowing he has their backs.

If getting a legit #1 CB is a luxury, and not a need, then what the hell is a need?

I think the debate really is are any of the CBs being pimped in this year's draft "legit #1 CBs?" Is there really a difference between a Joe Haden, a Kyle Wilson, a Brandon Ghee, Patrick Robinson, etc, etc.

IMO, and I think one shared by many, there is no CB in this draft who stands out like a Shawn Springs, Darrell Revis, Nnamdi Asomugha, Rod Woodson, etc. Just because they are the highest rated in this specific draft doesn't mean they are a "legit #1." It is a weak CB draft.

I agree that none of the CB's are going to come in and be a Revis, Nnamdi, or Rod for us, but there is a reason why Haden is considered to be an early 1st round prospect, Wilson is considered to be a late 1st round prospect, and Robinson and Ghee are expected to come off the board on day two of the draft. Haden's skill set seems to fit us well, which is why I wouldn't mind trading up for him. I like Wilson as well, but not at #18...there are players at other positions that I would prefer at #18. If we don't get a CB in the first, I would be happy with Ghee on day two (not a fan of Robinson, though).

I personally like Haden better than Malcolm Jenkins or Vontae Davis last year and Leodis McKelvin, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib, and Mike Jenkins the year before that.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2010CB.php


Joe Haden, 5-11/190
Cornerback
Florida

Joe Haden Scouting Report
By Matt McGuire

Strengths:
Ridiculous level of production
Terrific closing burst
Eliminates space quickly
Breaks on ball smoothly
Has long speed to play on island
Very fluid hips
Physical corner; gets nice jam at LOS
Takes on blocks
Really lays the wood for a corner
Terrific in run support
Nice ball skills
Locates the football well in air
Nice timing on jump balls
Has soft hands
Effective on corner/nickel blitz (3 sacks, 3 hurries in 2009)
Played a lot of press man coverage
Well coached
Intense football player
Wonderful skill set
Still has some upside

Weaknesses:
Lacks some awareness and instincts
Could anticipate routes better
Sometimes loses focus
Vulnerable to inside moves
Some question listed height
Unimpressive in zone

Summary: Joe Haden is a very talented cornerback with a very well-rounded game, but some teams might be scared off by his lacking instincts, which is critical at the NFL level where pro receivers are great route runners. Haden's level of production and consistency will get him drafted in the top 15 picks. He is one of the better cornerback prospects in the last couple years. He shut down Alabama receiver Julio Jones in the 2009 SEC Championship.

Player Comparison: Leon Hall. Similar size, speed and skill set. Hall is also a great player against the run.



Kyle Wilson, 5-10/190
Cornerback
Boise State

Kyle Wilson Scouting Report
By Matt McGuire

Strengths:
Good musculature
Highly athletic with good speed
Experienced
Very talented - skill set
Outstanding footwork
Great agility and change of direction
Shows ability to mirror against athletic WRs
Low in his backpedal - technically sound
Love his anticipation and instincts
Durable
Comfortable on an island
Fluid hips
Scrappy/physical at the line of scrimmage - uses hands well
Nice return man
Extremely competitive
Confident
Big Senior Bowl week
Still has some potential

Weaknesses:
Sometimes doesn't look back for the ball
Inconsistent tackler
Needs to improve run support
Will give up some big plays
Lacks zone awareness
A bit of a gambler in coverage
Less than ideal height

Summary: I really like Wilson's skill set and I think he will contribute to a team early in his career. He has the potential to be a No. 1 corner in the league though he has a couple things he needs to work on to make that happen. Wilson really impressed NFL scouts and coaches during Senior Bowl week and he was the best corner on the field. He was suspended in 2007 for three games for a violation of team rules - this will be checked into by the regional scouts but I'm not holding it against him until we hear media reports. Wilson will likely get drafted in the latter half of the first round.

Player Comparison: Cortland Finnegan. Finnegan is a very confident player who is highly athletic and finds ways to make plays. He's a good press man corner like Wilson.


Patrick Robinson, 5-11/190
Cornerback
Florida State

Patrick Robinson Scouting Report
By Matt McGuire

Strengths:
Solid size and strength
Very athletic
Smooth, fluid hips
Technically sound with low backpedal
Excellent feet
Good break on the ball
Instinctive
Turns head back to quarterback
Keeps play in front of him
Nice burst and acceleration - impressive speed
Talented skill set

Weaknesses:
Not very competitive
Shies from taking on blocks
Inconsistent tackler
Lacks physicality
Needs to improve jam at line of scrimmage
Doesn't play up to measureables
Sometimes loses focus
First-round talent with mid-round tape

Summary: Robinson has been highly rated solely based on his height, weight, and 40 time. I see a corner who refuses to play the run, but then he turns around and isn't as dominant in pass coverage as I want him to be. There are rumors that he didn't play hard as a senior to avoid injury - this really concerns me. I question how much Robinson loves the game. Robinson carries a third-round grade, and he'll likely come off the board anywhere from very late first round to early third round.

Player Comparison: Antonio Cromartie. Cromartie is a talented player who shows inconsistency and severely lacks in run support.


Brandon Ghee, 6-0/190
Cornerback
Wake Forest

Brandon Ghee Scouting Report
By Matt McGuire

Strengths:
Great height/length and build
Explosive speed
Good athlete with nice change of direction
Great red zone defender - protects end zone
Solid timing on jump balls
Very good in run support
Not afraid to take on a block
Physical and will deliver big hits
Outstanding at anticipating routes; instinctive
Quick hips
Can turn and run with fast receivers
Comfortable in man or zone
Highly confident
Very intriguing upside

Weaknesses:
A little raw mechanically with footwork
Doesn't always appropriately turn head back to ball
Struggles to disengage
Should be more of a playmaker
Sometimes lacks focus; inconsistent
Will get too high out of backpedal

Summary: Ghee has some fixable attributes to his game, but he is a high upside player, and will likely be a better pro than college player. If he is impressive at the Senior Bowl and in workouts, it wouldn't shock me if he is a first-round draft pick. Ghee has some intriguing physical tools to work with and can match up against the bigger receivers in the league. I love athletic, confident corners, but there is no doubt Ghee needs to be more polished at the next level.

Player Comparison: Jonathan Joseph. Joseph, like Ghee, has the same size and athleticism coming out of college, but he was also a little raw. Now, he is one of the better corners in the AFC.

[Oviedo]

I would still prefer to go with Ghee or Robinson in Round 2 versus giving up a second round pick to move up to get Haden.

I also think you can get a solid CB in Round 2/3 in the form of Spievey (Iowa) or Verner (UCLA). Reports out of UCLA's Pro day have scouts saying Verner had the best ballskills of any prospect they have seen this year.


Cornerback Alterraun Verner stood on his numbers from the combine but looked terrific in position drills. Several scouts in attendance claimed Verner’s ball skills were the best of any defensive back they’ve witnessed this year on the pro-day circuit. Verner now ranks towards the top of the second tier of cornerbacks who’ll be selected starting in round two. Verner has already has individual workouts with the Denver Broncos and Tampa Bay Bucs.

[ikestops85]

How could anyone read the draft day impressions on Ike and not laugh

His athletic skills are incredible: 4.33 speed, 42" vertical, agile, great hands and a hard worker.

That has to leave you skeptical on the draft reports we are seeing on these college kids.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I would still prefer to go with Ghee or Robinson in Round 2 versus giving up a second round pick to move up to get Haden.

I also think you can get a solid CB in Round 2/3 in the form of Spievey (Iowa) or Verner (UCLA). Reports out of UCLA's Pro day have scouts saying Verner had the best ballskills of any prospect they have seen this year.


Cornerback Alterraun Verner stood on his numbers from the combine but looked terrific in position drills. Several scouts in attendance claimed Verner’s ball skills were the best of any defensive back they’ve witnessed this year on the pro-day circuit. Verner now ranks towards the top of the second tier of cornerbacks who’ll be selected starting in round two. Verner has already has individual workouts with the Denver Broncos and Tampa Bay Bucs.



I do like Ghee as a prospect, so I might prefer taking him in the 2nd if we use #18 on another position (I really like Berry a lot...bona fide man-crush level, so I would be willing to give up my 2nd roudner to move up for him in a second...with Haden, I'm still a bit iffy and on the fence with such a possibility, even if we would get a 4th back in the deal...It's not my dream scenario, but I would understand the reasoning if it came to pass like that). Not a big Robinson or Verner, guy, though. I could live with Spievey in the 3rd if we go elsewhere with our 1st and 2nd round picks.

[NJ-STEELER]

if Revis and Nnamdi were projected to be shut down corners, they would of went a lot higher then 14 and late 20's.

what they did have are the skills to become some of the better corners in the league, and they developed into what they are today
who is to say that any of the corners in this years draft cant become elite. wilson and haden certainly seem to have some of the skills required to become top flight CBs

[StarSpangledSteeler]

The question, therefore, really is- should the Steelers persist with the guys on the roster? Yes, Ike's contract is up soon- but he's young enough, and thought of well enough, in the organisation that they will make re-signing him a priority.

Does drafting a Round 1 or 2 CB effectively remove the development of Joe Burnett, Keenan Lewis & William Gay from the considerations of the Steelers coaches?

Chadman will agree that Gay & Burnett certainly look more like 3rd CB types, but Lewis is the type of CB the Steelers look for. Put it this way- the Steelers have shown interest in Brandon Ghee, Chris Cook & Nolan Carroll- all very comparible in size, stature & college career records to Keenan Lewis.

Gay got abused last season, but so did the whole Steelers backfield. He was not a lone culprit. And he won't be the first 1st year starter to get picked on. Troy being out effected the whole DB corp- suddenly their #1 playmaker was removed & they were scrambling to plug holes. Add to that, Harrison & Woodley were slow starters last season, hitting their stride as the season went on. Was the damage done to the confidence of players like Gay by then?

Chadman is not saying the Steelers shouldn't draft a CB high. Just wondering if the Steelers will see it the same way as we do is all...

First of all, thank you for your thoroughness and research. It helps us all as Steeler fans when posters give thought and logic rather than spewing emotional banter.

When Ike was up for his first extension, I remember there was great debate as to whether or not we should pay him the type of money he was demanding. It looked like we were going to lose him to the free agent market (which has and still does overpay CBs). I was one of those who desperately wanted to keep him. I went to training camp in Latrobe and was actually able to speak with him personally for a couple minutes while he signed autographs at which time I frankly told him I was worried he was going to leave to take bigger money elsewhere and used every argument i could think of to try and convince him to stay (as if my input would make any difference, i know). His response was very simple. He said, "I wouldn't worry about that. I'm a Steeler." Sure enough, he later signed a fair extension. In the papers he was quoted as saying something to the effect of 'He and Mr. Rooney had a special bond, and he didn't want to go anywhere else.' I would expect that same line of thinking would apply in this upcoming negotiation. I think it will get done and at a fair price.

The big question, as you have eluded to, is not "How good are our other CB's?" but "What is their projected upside?" and "How does that play into our defensive scheme?"

LeBeau usually does not employ the 'lock-down corner' strategy. But that may very well be because we don't have a true lock down corner. I'm sure if we had Revis or traded for Asomawa, LeBeau would develop a whole new set of wrinkles. As it stands now, he's working with average or sub-average talent and by necessity he has adopted the 'Just don't get beat deep' technique. Are our current CB's good enough to continue in this scheme? Against most teams, yes. The problem is, to win a championship we have to go through Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc. who have the ability and players to pick us apart four yards at a time, before we can generate pressure. I just don't think that going forward out current roster will be adequate, especially with the non-holding calls on Harrison.

In answer to your other question, we do not need more 3-5 round CB depth. We need a starting caliber CB and I just don't know that we can get that for sure in the second round this year. In my opinion, Haden, Wilson, and even Thomas have a skillset that appears to be 'bust-proof' (meaning non-Ricardo Cochleigh). They are going to be solid pros who can anchor the number two cb spot. The second round guys are very talented but to me they are still a little bit of a gamble. The other factor is, what if Ike gets hurt?... Look at our roster honestly. We would get absolutely TORCHED. We need a first round CB.

Lastly, remember that Tomlin's expertise is as a DB coach. That is probably his forte as an evaluator and while he may not have been 'given' the leeway the past two drafts to go first round CB, I think this year in our current position, the possibility definitely exists. Especially since starting corners (like left tackles) usually tend to get overdrafted at times.

Just my thoughts.

[flippy]

Most CBs look like they stink in our system.

Steelers CBs have to give up short passes, tackle well, support the run, and don't give up big plays.

The whole premise of our defense is get to the QB fast. Stop the run. And on passing plays, make the QB get rid of the ball quickly. Hopefully you get some bad decisions/mistakes or short completions. And then you get to the QB on 3rd down.

But last year, we didn't the pressure we typically do on the QB. No Smitty to command a double team. Casey not as good as he's been in the past. Woodley disappearing for half a season - probably injured. Harrison getting himself held on every play.

The problem lies in our front 7.

We need some 3rd down pass rusher that can provide a spark and get the team off the field in critical situations. Ike and Gay will be good enough. And healthy Troy can cover up all the blemishes.

It might be nice having a shiny new safety to team with Troy.

Or a pass rusher.

Heck, we coulda drafted Revis and he'd look like an average CB in our system cause Lebeau would make him give up lots of short completions.

[steeler_george]

The need for DB is over rated, sure we could always welcome more top talent. Imagine another CB, who could shut down and make picks, ala Revis. And having Ike our number 2 corner. But that is a luxury, not a need, my friends... Unless we are planning on the future with a departed Ike.

We have in DB:

Palomolou-- the back bone of the D and especially the DB he makes everyone a playmaker.
Ike -- he can cover the best WR-only if he can catch
Gay--not as bad everyone thinks, even he got replaced by Deshea, I think the whole D last year played horrible with out Pol. Now only if Gay could play how he shared time with mcfadden in that SB run...
Clark -- with polumoulo back he will be great in his role again
Palomolo -- he is so good, and all over the place, there has to be 2 of them

Deshea - good dependable, age factor?
Lewis/Burnet - can they make progression how all steeler players make in year 2--we all saw some flashes last year and then we saw the ugly too.
Allen - better than Carter...and that is a sight for sore eyes


I think with Polomolou back he just makes everyone around him so much better (ie. T. Carter) A simple chain reaction. With Polom back, Clark can foucus again on playing his role...protecting the deep ball and cover help. With Clarks support, the CBs will play much better knowing he has their backs.

If getting a legit #1 CB is a luxury, and not a need, then what the hell is a need?

I am just being logical, there is no way to have an all pro at every position. For us, Ike is our #1 CB, and could be for numerous teams.

[NJ-STEELER]

the NY jets incorprated a zone man blitz last year.

i think ryan figured out a way to use a shut down corner.

the more confidence DL has in leaving a CB one on one, the more wrinkles we would see

[RuthlessBurgher]

[quote="steeler_george":3l0vd7vf]The need for DB is over rated, sure we could always welcome more top talent. Imagine another CB, who could shut down and make picks, ala Revis. And having Ike our number 2 corner. But that is a luxury, not a need, my friends... Unless we are planning on the future with a departed Ike.

We have in DB:

Palomolou-- the back bone of the D and especially the DB he makes everyone a playmaker.
Ike -- he can cover the best WR-only if he can catch
Gay--not as bad everyone thinks, even he got replaced by Deshea, I think the whole D last year played horrible with out Pol. Now only if Gay could play how he shared time with mcfadden in that SB run...
Clark -- with polumoulo back he will be great in his role again
Palomolo -- he is so good, and all over the place, there has to be 2 of them

Deshea - good dependable, age factor?
Lewis/Burnet - can they make progression how all steeler players make in year 2--we all saw some flashes last year and then we saw the ugly too.
Allen - better than Carter...and that is a sight for sore eyes


I think with Polomolou back he just makes everyone around him so much better (ie. T. Carter) A simple chain reaction. With Polom back, Clark can foucus again on playing his role...protecting the deep ball and cover help. With Clarks support, the CBs will play much better knowing he has their backs.

If getting a legit #1 CB is a luxury, and not a need, then what the hell is a need?

I am just being logical, there is no way to have an all pro at every position. For us, Ike is our #1 CB, and could be for numerous teams.[/quote:3l0vd7vf]

Fair enough, but who is the other starting corner that you feel you can rely on (and what happens if we are not able to re-sign Ike after this season)? Some folks have been clamoring for a linebacker in round 1. Since we already have Harrison, Woodley, Timmons, Farrior, Foote, and Fox, I would consider a 7th LB to be more of a luxury and a potential starting CB to be more of a need at this point in time.

[NJ-STEELER]

on path to the draft tonight, davis said the steelers will look to draft wilson, if he's still there.

thats right, he said he 's been so impressive in workouts and pro day that he rising fast and thought he might go before 18.
also mentioned some scouts like him better then haden

[hawaiiansteel]

on path to the draft tonight, davis said the steelers will look to draft wilson, if he's still there.

thats right, he said he 's been so impressive in workouts and pro day that he rising fast and thought he might go before 18.
also mentioned some scouts like him better then haden




i would be absolutely thrilled with Kyle Wilson, anybody who doesn't think CB is our most glaring need needs to go back and watch replays of our games last year when we coughed up how many 4th quarter leads?

seriously, Bruce Gradkowski looked like a Pro Bowler against our secondary. i still can't believe we lost to the friggen' Raiders last season...

[Oviedo]

on path to the draft tonight, davis said the steelers will look to draft wilson, if he's still there.

thats right, he said he 's been so impressive in workouts and pro day that he rising fast and thought he might go before 18.
also mentioned some scouts like him better then haden




i would be absolutely thrilled with Kyle Wilson, anybody who doesn't think CB is our most glaring need needs to go back and watch replays of our games last year when we coughed up how many 4th quarter leads?

seriously, Bruce Gradkowski looked like a Pro Bowler against our secondary. i still can't believe we lost to the friggen' Raiders last season...

Only 2 sacks by Woodley that game and very little pressure on Gradkowski. That is why he looked like a Pro Bowl players. LeBeau's defense is predicated on constant pressure on the QB. Harrison had 2 sacks the last 8 games of the season. We need to improve our pass rush to the point we can put constant pressure on the QB. No DB can cover if you give the QB time.

[Oviedo]

Most CBs look like they stink in our system.

Steelers CBs have to give up short passes, tackle well, support the run, and don't give up big plays.

The whole premise of our defense is get to the QB fast. Stop the run. And on passing plays, make the QB get rid of the ball quickly. Hopefully you get some bad decisions/mistakes or short completions. And then you get to the QB on 3rd down.

But last year, we didn't the pressure we typically do on the QB. No Smitty to command a double team. Casey not as good as he's been in the past. Woodley disappearing for half a season - probably injured. Harrison getting himself held on every play.

The problem lies in our front 7.

We need some 3rd down pass rusher that can provide a spark and get the team off the field in critical situations. Ike and Gay will be good enough. And healthy Troy can cover up all the blemishes.

It might be nice having a shiny new safety to team with Troy.

Or a pass rusher.

Heck, we coulda drafted Revis and he'd look like an average CB in our system cause Lebeau would make him give up lots of short completions.

Great post. You understand the defense. It is about pressure on the QB. No DB is going to be able to cover if you give the QB time, especially a rookie.

[steeler_george]

[/Fair enough, but who is the other starting corner that you feel you can rely on (and what happens if we are not able to re-sign Ike after this season)? Some folks have been clamoring for a linebacker in round 1. Since we already have Harrison, Woodley, Timmons, Farrior, Foote, and Fox, I would consider a 7th LB to be more of a luxury and a potential starting CB to be more of a need at this point in time.

Hey Ruthless, I agree with the same comparison of "need at LB and CB" . I wouldn't be disappointed if we took either a CB or LB in round one. Even if we do to trade up for what we want, one of your posts reminded me that we are drafting very high for us and we should grab an ELITE PLAYER, since we rarely draft before 20.


We need some 3rd down pass rusher that can provide a spark and get the team off the field in critical situations. Ike and Gay will be good enough. And healthy Troy can cover up all the blemishes.

Hey flipp, 100 % with Troy statement.




i would be absolutely thrilled with Kyle Wilson, anybody who doesn't think CB is our most glaring need needs to go back and watch replays of our games last year when we coughed up how many 4th quarter leads?

seriously, Bruce Gradkowski looked like a Pro Bowler against our secondary. i still can't believe we lost to the friggen' Raiders last season...

I still can't believe it either. But how can you blame the D especially the DBs on all the fourth quarter flops, when we couldn't kill the clock by pounding the rock when we had the ball on O with the lead?

[Oviedo]

There was a good series of articles last year on the characteristics of the Steelers' defense and the players they need. Here is the link and the quote examines DBs specifically. Key point is CBs are required to be strong against the run #1 and they give big cushions so the concept of getting these shutdown CBs doesn't make sense when LeBeau doesn't play press man to man coverage.

http://steelerstoday.com/?p=3210


The 3-4 and the Steelers’ draft (part 5)
April 5, 2009
By Donald Starver

Note: This is part 5 in a series. If you haven’t already read the previous chapters, please click the appropriate link below:

Part 1 (3-4 basics)

Part 2 (The nose tackle)

Part 3 (The 3-4 defensive end)

Part 4 (The 3-4 linebackers)

In part 5 of our series on the 3-4 defense and how it affects the Steelers’ draft, we will talk about the final component of the 3-4 defense; the secondary.

The secondary consists of 4 positions; the right and left cornerbacks, the strong safety and the free safety. These positions are known collectively as defensive backs.

The role of the defensive backs in a 3-4 and a 4-3 are basically the same. Their jobs are to defend against pass plays, and to tackle any runners who might get past the defensive linemen and linebackers.

Based on the situation, the team may bring in a fifth defensive back (the nickel back ). In other situations, they may bring in a 6th defensive back (the dime back). There are even situations when a team might bring seven or even eight defensive backs onto the field (like a game-ending ”hail Mary” pass play). However, these situations are unusual.

Depending on the scheme, the roles of the defensive backs may vary. For example, some teams play their cornerbacks in primarily man-to-man coverage. Others may mix in some zone coverage. Some defenses require their cornerbacks to line up close to the line and jam the receivers as they start their routes. Others, like the Steelers, tend to play off the line and give receivers lots of cussion.

The Steelers require their defensive backs to play a more integral role in run support than most teams do. In fact, a cornerback who is not strong in run support probably won’t fare well in Dick LeBeau’s system.

The cornerback is the player who is primarily responsible for guarding the wide receiver. He has to be able to run stride-for-stride with the fastest receivers, and therefore, they are usually the fastest players on the defense.

The typical cornerback is about 5?10? tall. However, as more tall receivers like Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, and Plaxico Burress emerge, as well as receivers with incredible leaping ability like Larry Fitzgerald, teams will need to find taller cornerbacks to defend them. The Steelers’ Ike Taylor may be the new prototype, as he has the height, speed, and leaping ability to guard almost any wide receiver in the NFL.

The strong safety usually plays on the tight end’s side of the offensive formation (the “strong” side). That is why he is called a “strong” safety. The strong safety is usually the bigger and stronger of the two safeties. He is also often the slower of the two. He is often charged with guarding the tight end or any running back who may leave the backfield.

A good strong safety will often be like a small linebacker on the field. He will be excellent in run support, and is often known for delivering vicious hits.

The free safety is usually smaller and faster than the strong safety. He typically lines up further back from the line of scrimmage than the strong safety. He is usually the last line of defense in the defensive backfield. He must have the speed and instincts to read long pass plays, and to quickly close the gap between himself and the receiver. The free safety must also be able to play man-to-man on a wide receiver if the opponent utilizes a third wide receiver.

Interestingly, when you look at what is required of the free safety versus the strong safety, one might argue that former Steeler Anthony Smith was more of a strong safety than a free safety. However, with Troy Polamalu entrenched at the strong safety position, the Steelers were forced to use Smith as a free safety. He repeatedly failed to be the “last line of defense” against the New England Patriots, and that ultimately cost him his job.

Looking at this year’s draft class, there are a number of good cornerbacks in the draft, but few top notch safeties. In fact, safety may be the weakest position in the draft. There are no elite safeties in this draft, and there may be no safeties taken in the first round.

[RuthlessBurgher]

After reading the last paragraph of that article, I thought "What the hell?!?" but then looked up and saw that it was written a year ago and was referring to the last draft.

[NW Steeler]

Most CBs look like they stink in our system.

Steelers CBs have to give up short passes, tackle well, support the run, and don't give up big plays.

The whole premise of our defense is get to the QB fast. Stop the run. And on passing plays, make the QB get rid of the ball quickly. Hopefully you get some bad decisions/mistakes or short completions. And then you get to the QB on 3rd down.

But last year, we didn't the pressure we typically do on the QB. No Smitty to command a double team. Casey not as good as he's been in the past. Woodley disappearing for half a season - probably injured. Harrison getting himself held on every play.

The problem lies in our front 7.

We need some 3rd down pass rusher that can provide a spark and get the team off the field in critical situations. Ike and Gay will be good enough. And healthy Troy can cover up all the blemishes.

It might be nice having a shiny new safety to team with Troy.

Or a pass rusher.

Heck, we coulda drafted Revis and he'd look like an average CB in our system cause Lebeau would make him give up lots of short completions.

Great post. You understand the defense. It is about pressure on the QB. No DB is going to be able to cover if you give the QB time, especially a rookie.

True, it is about pressure on the QB, but at the same time, good coverage can help the pass rush as well. A lot of times all it takes is having the QB hold onto the ball for another second and the pressure will get there.

[SteelAbility]

The fact that Willie Gay is our starter automatically pushes the need for CB toward the "underrated" side. ;)

[flippy]

Most CBs look like they stink in our system.

Steelers CBs have to give up short passes, tackle well, support the run, and don't give up big plays.

The whole premise of our defense is get to the QB fast. Stop the run. And on passing plays, make the QB get rid of the ball quickly. Hopefully you get some bad decisions/mistakes or short completions. And then you get to the QB on 3rd down.

But last year, we didn't the pressure we typically do on the QB. No Smitty to command a double team. Casey not as good as he's been in the past. Woodley disappearing for half a season - probably injured. Harrison getting himself held on every play.

The problem lies in our front 7.

We need some 3rd down pass rusher that can provide a spark and get the team off the field in critical situations. Ike and Gay will be good enough. And healthy Troy can cover up all the blemishes.

It might be nice having a shiny new safety to team with Troy.

Or a pass rusher.

Heck, we coulda drafted Revis and he'd look like an average CB in our system cause Lebeau would make him give up lots of short completions.

Great post. You understand the defense. It is about pressure on the QB. No DB is going to be able to cover if you give the QB time, especially a rookie.

True, it is about pressure on the QB, but at the same time, good coverage can help the pass rush as well. A lot of times all it takes is having the QB hold onto the ball for another second and the pressure will get there.

I think a great safety can make a QB hold onto the ball longer.

Berry/Thomas paired with Polamalu would force a QB to be extra cautious and hold the ball longer and with the return of Smitty + Hood being over the rookie hump + Timmons having a full season starting under his belt, I think one of these guys could be the pick that gives us the biggest return on our defense.

I'd take either, but we should do whatever we can to move up to get Berry if he slides at all.

I also wouldn't be too disappointed if we had to trade up for Thomas either.

But then again, we might get a better return immediately with a 3rd down pass rusher assuming Troy stays healthy.

Actually it doesn't matter a lot who we have on defense if Troy's healthy. He can single handedly carry the defense.

Maybe we should trade down and grab 2 Olinemen and improve the running game and take some pressure off the D.

There's so much talent in this draft, we could go in so many directions.

Actually who's the youngest and most physically gifted player with high character that's BPA? That's the guy we're gonna pick #1.

[NW Steeler]

I think Thomas is the surest bet from the group that we will be looking at when we pick. Draft Thomas in round one, then trade up if necessary to get Pouncey or the highest rated guard in round two.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Actually who's the youngest and most physically gifted player with high character that's BPA? That's the guy we're gonna pick #1.

That would be Earl Thomas. Since he is coming out as a redshirt sophomore, he's only 20 years old. And since he has positional flexibility, athleticism that has drawn comparison's to Troy himself, and has not been involved in any off-the-field incidents that I am aware of, he seems like a Steeler-type-pick through-and-through.

[NJ-STEELER]

personally, i think some of you guys are nuts if you dont think we got enough pressure last year.

was it less then a year before? yeah, probably. there's a reason why they were ranked #1 in all perspective categories that the league hasn't seen in 25 years. its not easy to get there consistently.

plus, you can blitz 6 guys all game long and if the play is a quick 3 step drop, it still isn't gonna stop the pass if the corners are leaving the WRs wide open. look at the Tenn game to see how they countered the pressure

i dont think anyone can expect to match that kind of pressure every year

[flippy]

Actually who's the youngest and most physically gifted player with high character that's BPA? That's the guy we're gonna pick #1.

That would be Earl Thomas. Since he is coming out as a redshirt sophomore, he's only 20 years old. And since he has positional flexibility, athleticism that has drawn comparison's to Troy himself, and has not been involved in any off-the-field incidents that I am aware of, he seems like a Steeler-type-pick through-and-through.

I just worry about this kid staying healthy. Seems the size to be injury prone just like Troy and Bob Sanders.