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hawaiiansteel
03-24-2010, 02:59 PM
wonder why so few college teams run the 3-4 defense? i'll bet you more and more college teams will begin to make the switch...


Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:52 am EDT

3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft
By Doug Farrar

Every NFL team has its own theories and formulas when it comes to the science of the draft, but no matter how specific people get, there are certain positional and schematic issues that cause geniuses to look like goofballs. Basketball players become brilliant tight ends. Spread-offense quarterbacks put up historic numbers in college and can't even bust the CFL at the pro level. And the increasing number of NFL teams running 3-4 defenses find it more and more difficult to find key personnel in the draft, for one simple reason -- college teams don't run the 3-4 as their base defense very much.

In fact, of the 120 BCS teams, only three -- Alabama, Cal, and West Virginia -- run a full-time three-man front. That makes the accurate selection of specific players, especially two-gap nose tackles than can dominate the point of attack, more difficult. This is the case even though the 2010 class of defensive tackles may be the deepest ever. As college teams put forth their abilities to create NFL opportunities to recruits, you could see more teams making the switch. This schism was on the mind of more than one AFC coach during the media breakfast at the Owner's Meetings.

"I think that there are always a number of guys in that situation in the draft," Patriots coach Bill Belichick said of the "conversion ends", like Tennessee's Dan Williams, who are expected to move to nose at the pro level. "There are hardly any 3-4 teams in college football. Whoever plays on the end of the line, whether it's a linebacker, defensive end or a crash end, whatever you want to call them, those guys are going to play on the end of the line at the next level too. Figuring out who can do what, that's always a tough spot to break down in the draft."

And the "endbackers", 4-3 ends or outside linebackers who convert to edge rushers in 3-4-4 or 5-2-4 sets, are of equal importance -- something Belichick's been dealing with since his days coaching Lawrence Taylor under Bill Parcells in the 1980s. "It's a challenge, but again that's pretty much the way it's been you know going back to ... you could pick out most of those guys going back to Lawrence Taylor, and certainly [Mike] Vrabel, [Willie] McGinest, Chris Slade, [Rosevelt] Colvin, Tully [Banta-Cain], all those guys. Sure, it's a long list of them, guys who didn't play on their feet in college or played on their feet a minimal amount."

Dolphins head coach Tony Sparano knows all about the challenges of putting together a 3-4 front -- he's working around nose tackle Jason Ferguson's(notes) eight-game suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy precisely because guys who do what Ferguson does are so hard to find. Even as a 35-year-old free agent sure to play only half a season, he's still an attractive option.

"From our standpoint, as you know, Jason Ferguson's a guy that's been very good for us," Sparano said. "When we were in Dallas as well, but very much so when we were here in Miami. Obviously, Jason has the suspension. We're not happy with that, but at the end of the day, it's something that we have to deal with. When Jason got hurt this year, our tongue would've been hanging out to find a player like Jason Ferguson sitting out there at that time. We couldn't find a player like that. To have the ability to have a player like that when he comes back off a suspension I think is a positive thing for us. Of course, Jason, I love him to death, but he's not a young guy. I would say that all these (3-4) positions are positions we'd consider addressing in the draft."

At the Combine, Jets coach Rex Ryan told me about the incredible value of two-gappers, and he was watching every move made by ginormous nose tackle Terrence Cody at Alabama's recent Pro Day. "That might be one of the toughest parts of a 3-4," Ryan said in Indianapolis. "Basically your nose tackle, unless you are always moving to nose, if you are playing a standard 3-4 defense, then you've got a two-gap responsibility which means you got to be able to play the front-side A-gap and the backside A-gap at the same time. You generally need a dominant individual there. And that is what you have like a Kris Jenkins(notes), or a Ted Washington(notes) many years ago in Buffalo was one of the best two-gappers I have ever seen. A guy has to be active, he has got to be able to stay on his feet, his technique on releasing off of blocks has got to be outstanding. If not, you are really going to struggle at that spot."

Last year, the Chiefs and Packers were among the teams switching to the 3-4. In 2010, the Bills and Redskins are making the leap. To get the best recruits, more college teams will catch up to the new trends. In the meantime, you'll see players with specific skill sets suitable for 3-4 fronts sitting in the proverbial catbird seat.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl,229833 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/3-4-schemes-provide-challenges-for-NFL-teams-in-;_ylt=Anm0vkoB9p4BHCWPl5.4cbpDubYF?urn=nfl,229833)

ramblinjim
03-24-2010, 04:04 PM
I'm starting to wonder if Mount Cody is on the board at 18 if we grab him?

Chadman
03-24-2010, 05:55 PM
Shouldn't dismiss Cody as an option- if you look past his flabby body & see the football player- he's a BETTER 3-4 NT than Williams.

There, it's been said.

ramblinjim
03-24-2010, 06:16 PM
:Agree

....and he's just like any other 3-4 NT. If you aren't worried about their weight, they probably aren't big enough to play 33-4 NT.

Chadman
03-24-2010, 06:19 PM
:Agree

....and he's just like any other 3-4 NT. If you aren't worried about their weight, they probably aren't big enough to play 33-4 NT.

a 33-4!!!


Pretty sure there might be a few flags thrown before the snap... :D

hawaiiansteel
03-24-2010, 06:53 PM
:Agree

....and he's just like any other 3-4 NT. If you aren't worried about their weight, they probably aren't big enough to play 33-4 NT.

a 33-4!!!


Pretty sure there might be a few flags thrown before the snap... :D



the scouting report against a 33-4 defense is you have to throw quick passes against it. The 33-4 is almost impossible to run against and it's very hard to block that many rushers for very long. :lol:

hawaiiansteel
03-26-2010, 03:51 AM
this is Dom Capers' description of the 3-4 defense in Green Bay - very informative!



A Hat on a Hat, Plus One

The run.

With the help of the reporters in the Packers press, peopleís understanding of what it takes to run, and stop the run, seems to be off. When you dig in deeper, who does what and why, and what it looks like when they are doing well, isnít necessarily correct when they are reported to look good or bad.

This is a very fundamental principal. If the offense comes with as many blockers as you have defenders, there is nobody left to tackle the running back. If each offensive player wins their battle with a well designed play, an explosive play usually results. One of the fundamental principals of the pass to run philosophy, is to get the defense to back the extra defender up, in essence even up the box count for the offense. With a hat on a hat, plus one (the back), it isnít hard to run if they can execute. There are lots of different offensive strategies to running, but really, this principle is at the core of it all.

My focus however is going to be on the defense. The defensive front 7 is poorly understood in proper context, and there are a lot of incorrect or misleading cliches floating around.

The concept is the same, a hat on a hat, plus one. There must be an extra player that the offense canít dedicate blockers to in place to tackle the running back. When the offense blocks a corridor into the secondary, an explosive play results more often than not. Even with the best backs, explosive plays are rare when the back has no blockers beyond the line of scrimmage.

The Line of Scrimmage.

The ball canít go through an offensive blocker, it has to go around him. The defenses job is to close each of the gaps between the lineman. In a 1 TE set, there are 7 gaps for the defense to control. Some players control 1 gap, some players control 2. Some players donít control any. Defensive lineman (and 3-4 OLBís) at least control one gap. Most systems and play calls will ask at least 1 linebacker to control a gap. Most also leave 1 linebacker with no gap responsibilities. He is free to flow to the ball and make plays. When the defense has all gaps covered, the best the offense will muster on a run play is how much downfield push the line got. If there is a crack, and the back gets through, there is a linebacker and/or safety to make the tackle that has no gap responsibility.

What are the players in Green Bayís new 3-4 defense responsible for? (All of these could be modified by an exotic playcall, even the most unconventional DCís donít call many exotic plays, at least for run stopping)

The OLBís

There are no designated strong side (TE side) and weak side outside linebackers. Dom (and most 3-4 coordinators) prefers right and left, keeping guys on the same side of the field. Each OLB is responsible for the the outside gap. The back should not be allowed to bounce the play outside. The OLB on the TE side might also be responsible for the gap between the TE and OT depending on the playcall.

The two positions are largely the same, though of the two, typically the LOLB will be the better run defender and better as pass coverage, and the ROLB will be the better pass rusher.

ROLB Ė Matthews, Thompson, Jones
LOLB Ė Kampman, Poppinga, Obiozor

The DEís

The ends are responsible for the gap between the OG and the OT, and possibly also for the gap outside of the tackle (on the weak (non-TE) side, if the OT blocks the OLB, the DE has to be aware of and help out on that mismatch and help cover that gap). The end will typically be single blocked by either the OG or OT, though it is common for the OT to give the OLB a shove than turn to help the G double team the DE.

There are slight differences between the two ends. Offenses align their TE on the right side much more often than the left. This makes the defensive left the strong side more often than weak. Most offenses place their better run blockers on the right side. Most offenses run (or design plays to be run, even if the back goes elsewhere) to the right more than the left. The defensive left gets run at with better run blockers typically than the defensive right. To counteract this the LDE is typically bigger and stronger than the RDE, and a better run defender. The opposite is true with the pass, and the RDE is typically a better pass rusher than the LDE, as offenses typically put their batter pass blockers on the left side, the defensive right.

RDE Ė Jenkins, Montgomery, Wynn
LDE Ė Jolly, Raji, Harrell, Malone

The NT

There is one big difference between a 4-3 NT and 3-4 NT. A normal 4-3 NT alignment places the DT in the gap between the C and G. The DT is well positioned to engage both the C and G at the snap. Unless the lineman run away from him (pull, etcÖ), with good play neither should get past him, and they shouldnít be able to move him backwards. This is different in a 3-4. Lining up directly over the C, the NT is not well positioned to stop the Gís from bypassing him and blocking the LBís, a battle that they will lose. This is why the C vs the NT must be a battle that heavily favors the NT. If they choose to skip him, he has to make them pay by defeating the C and making the stop in the backfield. The NT usually either covers one or both of the gaps on either side of the C.

On draft day this was a concept that I donít think that many understand. The NT has to be more than a brick wall. A big slow guy doesnít cut it. Sure he may be immovable, but he gives the offense absolutely no reason to double block him. It is a fundamental flaw of a 3-4 defense, the offense can set itself up with very favorable blocking, but it only works if the NT canít consistently stop the play when only one man tries to block him. This is the reason for the premium placed on 3-4 NTís. There arenít a lot of people on this earth that can consistently dominate a single offensive lineman (the center) by themselves.

NT Ė Pickett, Raji, Toribio

The ILBís

There are two distinctly different ILB positions, the SILB and WILB, strong and weak. In Domís system the SILB is named the buck, the WILB is named the mack. Unlike the OLBís, the ILBís do change sides based on which side the TE is on, with good reason. Usually if there is an uncovered gap or extra blocker, it is on the strong side. When looking at number counts, especially when a FB is involved, there are almost always as many blockers on the strong side as there are defenders. The buck and mack have very different skill sets as it relates to the run.

The buck is a banger. Remember one of the initial premises I made, a back with no blockers isnít going very far. The buck eliminates the blockers. If there is a G coming through, mix it up with the G and try to keep him in the gap. If the FB is coming through, stop him in his tracks. The last thing you want the buck doing is shedding the blocks, unless the RB is past or nearly past him. If he sheds the blocks early and fails to tackle the back, he made matters worse, now these blockers are in the secondary, the plus one has a blocker coming his way. Not good. The buck is supposed to engage blockers, not run around them.

If the buck has to take care of an offensive lineman, the best you can hope for is that he holds him up in the gap and doesnít get blown backward or thrown to the ground. Likewise he should hit the FB back and maintain control of the gap. The buck is essentially a small mobile defensive lineman, as it relates to the run, he almost always is part of the gap control scheme and has a gap assigned to him. He did his job if the back has to look elsewhere for an opening and if there are no blockers out in front of him.

The mack is the playmaker. He often has no gap assigned to him. He is to seek and destroy the guy with the ball. If the rest of the front did their jobs, he should be free of blockers. If not, he should shed any block immediately or go around them in pursuit of the ball. The mack is the star of the defense. He should always be around the ball. If he is blocked, the secondary has to make the play.

Buck Ė Hawk, Lansanah, Havner
Mack Ė Barnett, Chillar, Bishop

Note

The players I listed are where they primarily have been playing thus far. The primary exceptions being Montgomery playing at LDE due to the injuries at LDE, and Poppinga and Havner playing at ROLB due to injuries there. Bishop is officially listed on the depth chart as the #2 buck ahead of Lansanah, but he has thus far been playing mack throughout camp and in the game as Barnett has been out.

Steel Life
03-26-2010, 07:40 AM
Before we get all glassy-eyed about Cody remember this - you'd be drafting (& paying 1st round money to) a 2-down player. Cody was substituted for liberally at Alabama, to the point where you could view him as a specialist.

So aside from his obvious lack of conditioning, a physique that Kirstie Alley would love & combine measurables that would normally scream "don't draft", I would draft Cody too - in the 5th round.

stlrz d
03-26-2010, 07:46 AM
Before we get all glassy-eyed about Cody remember this - you'd be drafting (& paying 1st round money to) a 2-down player. Cody was substituted for liberally at Alabama, to the point where you could view him as a specialist.

So aside from his obvious lack of conditioning, a physique that Kirstie Alley would love & combine measurables that would normally scream "don't draft", I would draft Cody too - in the 5th round.

Most 3-4 NTs are 2 down players. If it's more than 3rd and short they're usually pulled for an extra LB or DB.

Oviedo
03-26-2010, 07:51 AM
[quote="Steel Life":3o1qiomp]Before we get all glassy-eyed about Cody remember this - you'd be drafting (& paying 1st round money to) a 2-down player. Cody was substituted for liberally at Alabama, to the point where you could view him as a specialist.

So aside from his obvious lack of conditioning, a physique that Kirstie Alley would love & combine measurables that would normally scream "don't draft", I would draft Cody too - in the 5th round.

Most 3-4 NTs are 2 down players. If it's more than 3rd and short they're usually pulled for an extra LB or DB.[/quote:3o1qiomp]

The problem with Cody is that he was given some very specific conditioning and weight goals by Saban that he never met. College players are under far greater control by the coaches than Cody will be as a Pro. If he shows that much of a lack of interest in college I can only imagine after his first season he shows up at the next training camp at 380lbs. He is just playing the game his agent wants him to play nby dropping a few pounds to help his draft status. Once he signs that first contract all the old bad habits will return.

ramblinjim
03-26-2010, 08:04 AM
:Agree

....and he's just like any other 3-4 NT. If you aren't worried about their weight, they probably aren't big enough to play 33-4 NT.

a 33-4!!!


Pretty sure there might be a few flags thrown before the snap... :D



the scouting report against a 33-4 defense is you have to throw quick passes against it. The 33-4 is almost impossible to run against and it's very hard to block that many rushers for very long. :lol:


It would definitely be good against the run huh? :D

ramblinjim
03-26-2010, 08:08 AM
I see what everyone's saying, it's just that in a 3/4, that NT is going to need to be 6'2, 330+ and that's always going to be a cause for concern.

phillyesq
03-26-2010, 09:00 AM
Cody's conditioning issues scare me. When Casey was younger, he wasn't in horrendous shape. I even remember one year the Steelers put in a "fat package" where Casey and the other NT (either Hoke or Clancy) stayed on the field in the nickel, and the Steelers went to a traditional 4 man line. When he was younger, Big Snack was pretty quick, and he is obviously still very effective now. You expect that 3-4 NTs will get bigger (and fatter) with age, but if they have problems when they're 22, you know it will be much worse when they are 32.

I also don't think that a NT makes sense in the first round. With Casey locked up for 3 years, the Steelers don't need to spend a premium pick on the position. If they're looking for an heir apparent, they can start grooming a mid-round pick. I think they could even wait a year to do that.

papillon
03-26-2010, 09:59 AM
There is one big difference between a 4-3 NT and 3-4 NT. A normal 4-3 NT alignment places the DT in the gap between the C and G. The DT is well positioned to engage both the C and G at the snap. Unless the lineman run away from him (pull, etcÖ), with good play neither should get past him, and they shouldnít be able to move him backwards. This is different in a 3-4. Lining up directly over the C, the NT is not well positioned to stop the Gís from bypassing him and blocking the LBís, a battle that they will lose. This is why the C vs the NT must be a battle that heavily favors the NT. If they choose to skip him, he has to make them pay by defeating the C and making the stop in the backfield. The NT usually either covers one or both of the gaps on either side of the C.

This is why Casey Hampton is one of the best NTs in the game. He requires guard help which doesn't allow the hat-on-a-hat plus one. Drafting his replacement if one of the top 2 is available would be fine with me.


The mack is the play maker. He often has no gap assigned to him. He is to seek and destroy the guy with the ball. If the rest of the front did their jobs, he should be free of blockers. If not, he should shed any block immediately or go around them in pursuit of the ball. The mack is the star of the defense. He should always be around the ball. If he is blocked, the secondary has to make the play.

If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
03-26-2010, 10:09 AM
If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

Pappy

They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.

Oviedo
03-26-2010, 10:17 AM
If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

Pappy

They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.


I agree. As well as Timmons did last year I think he would be even better playing in Farrior's position. The problem is that Farrior is probably not able to play the "buck" which means Timmons is kinda stuck there until they decide to part ways with Farrior.

I would have no issue taking Spikes in Round 3. For all the stats relative to times and the like, he was a highly productive player in the toughest conference in college football. He could be a "steal" in Round 3.

papillon
03-26-2010, 12:50 PM
If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

Pappy

They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.

I don't get Farrior playing the mack and Timmons the buck that seems exactly opposite to what was described by Dom Capers. Maybe Lebeau plays a different flavor of the 3-4 than Dom Capers described.

Pappy

Oviedo
03-26-2010, 12:54 PM
If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

Pappy

They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.

I don't get Farrior playing the mack and Timmons the buck that seems exactly opposite to what was described by Dom Capers. Maybe Lebeau plays a different flavor of the 3-4 than Dom Capers described.

Pappy

I think that Farrior is where he is at because he has expereince and he makes all the defensive calls. Timmons lacks that experience.

Don't forget as short as two to three years ago Farrior had all the skills required to be a very good "mack." He was very good in pass coverage and reading plays. Don't know if last year he had a nagging injury or if he just lost it but right now YTimmons would be better as the "mack"

flippy
03-26-2010, 01:17 PM
Farrior isn't a big guy and really isn't built to take on blockers. I bet his weight was close to a little over 200 lbs at some points the last 2 seasons. With his decline in speed, I don't think it's a guarantee that he starts this year.

Fox has looked good when he's played. And Timmons can slide into Farrior's spot.

Re: Timmons playing OLB, I still think he could end up in Harrison's spot when Harrison is done. Timmons is explosive in his first 10 yards or so. That explosion off the edge is something we don't have in our pass rush today.

Timmons is only 24. I think next year is going to be his year. 1 year as a full time starter adjusts the body and mind. Now it's time to unleash this beast.

hawaiiansteel
03-26-2010, 03:07 PM
Shouldn't dismiss Cody as an option- if you look past his flabby body & see the football player- he's a BETTER 3-4 NT than Williams.

There, it's been said.



Bama NT heading out for visits ...

It appears that Alabama NT Terrence 'Mount' Cody may be very much back in the late first round mix. Cody, whose stock took a hit when he showed up at this year's Senior Bowl overweight and out-of-shape reportedly will be visiting with Baltimore, San Diego and the New York Jets in the next couple of weeks. All three teams run 3-4 schemes and each is reportedly in the market for a young NT and have the 25th, 28th and 29th picks this year respectively.

Again, there are no guarantees that a team, or teams, that bring in a player for a visit will actually take that player, however, there is clearly a trend developing for Cody who to his credit has reportedly wrked hard since the Senior Bowl and has dropped much of the excess baggage, although weight control will obviousy continue to be a major red flag for him heading forward.

http://www.gbnreport.com/draftbuzz.html

hawaiiansteel
03-29-2010, 06:18 PM
The Bull Market

Author: Jinx Allessio
Posted March 20, 2010


The Dow Jones Industrial Average has sectors based upon different areas of the economy. There are times that movement among these sectors can predict overall movement in the economy. One sector that has performed very well since November 1st, 2009 is consumer goods. Consumer goods consists of anything that someone purchases to satisfy their wants and needs (e.g. food and clothing). Being that I work in the world of finance where speculation and interpretation provide some insight for future movement in the market, I have developed a reason why consumer goods has performed so well.

Four names come to mind to help highlight my thesis. Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton, Ryan Pickett and Aubrayo Franklin. The amount of money that has been allocated to solidifying the 3-4 nose tackle position this off season is unprecidented. In previous offseasons Sean Rogers and Kris Jenkins are two others that reaped the rewards of this economic shift. NFL organizations used to allocate those funds towards quarterbacks, running backs, defensive ends and left tackles. The money those men have generated is one of the primary reasons why the performance of the consumer goods sector has been one of the most consistant performers over the past two quarters.

A trend is developing beyond the economic factors of this influx of capital being used for nose tackles. This trend will carry over in the the 2010 NFL Draft. Several teams who run the 3-4 defense are in serious need of a nose tackle. The Buffalo Bills, Kansas City Chiefs, Miami Dolphins and San Diego Superchargers are a few that have an immediate need where many other needs depth and need to draft someone to take the reigns of that position within the next few seasons.

There are severals prospects that will be chosen during the draft this year that would have never been drafted as high as the nose tackle prospects of the past. Has there ever been the amount of prospects that could be drafted this year to play the nose tackle position? I will say yes, but the trending of teams utulizing the 3-4 defense and the emphasis on needing the nose tackle will increase the need of drafting one there for you will see teams adjusting the typical need and value boards accordingly. This year you will see someone like Cam Thomas drafted in the 2nd round, where as a prospect like Cam Thomas 10 years ago would not have been drafted before the 5th round. This trend may not be as revolutionary as the trend of drafting left tackles over the last 20 years, because every team needs a left tackle, but this is a significant change that will effect decisions in war rooms for many NFL organizations.

Who are some of the prospects that will hear their name called during the 2010 NFL Draft? Highlighting the class are defensive tackles Dan Williams (University of Tennessee) and Terrance ĎMountí Cody(University of Alabama). Both are very interesting prospects for very different reasons but they both have the chance to contribute to the Consumer Goods sector of the DJIA by being first round draft picks. Williamsí resume provides him the versatility to be drafted by a team running either a 30 or 40 front. Draftniks and other football enthusiasts are projecting that Mount Cody will fall to the second round. I am not here to break down the pros and cons of each potential first round prospect but I will tell you this, they will both be in high demand come April 22nd. The value of a nose tackle has been enhanced and their are teams in the first round that will address that need by drafting either Williams or Cody.

The Buffalo Bills are a team who will be playing their first year in 2010 using the 3-4, would they pass up on the opportunity of drafting Dan Williams with the ninth overall pick? They do have needs that are much more pressing so I donít see that happening but that does not mean that it is not in the realm of possibility.

Besides the three aforementioned nose tackle prospects their at least six others that could be drafted. Head lining the next group of prospects in Linvall Joseph(6-4 1/2, 328), a defensive tackle and mountain of a man out of Eastern Carolina University. A three year starter for the Pirates, Joseph really caught my eye during the 2009 Liberty Bowl. He was not only stout at the point of attack commanding double and triple teams all day, but also had two blocked extra apoints. Linvall Joseph performed very well in the 2009-10 season posting 60 tackles, 13.0 TFLs and 3 sacks. With the newfound priortization of the nose tackle position, Joseph could hear his name called as soon as the third round.

The other prospects that need to be mentioned are Torrel Troup(Central Florida), DíAnthony Smith(Louisiana Tech), Aleric Mullens (University of North Carolina), Jay Ross (Eastern Carolina), Kade Weston(University of Georgia) and Martin Tevaseu(UNLV). Many of these players will end up being drafted between rounds three through seven where as I pointed out before they may have never been drafted and nothing more than bodies in some teams training camp without the importance of a nose tackle in the 3-4 defense.

RuthlessBurgher
03-29-2010, 10:15 PM
If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

Pappy

They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.

I don't get Farrior playing the mack and Timmons the buck that seems exactly opposite to what was described by Dom Capers. Maybe Lebeau plays a different flavor of the 3-4 than Dom Capers described.

Pappy

When I referenced moving Timmons to the mack (the playmaking position), I did not suggest having him swap places with Farrior. I suggested having Foote and Fox handle the responsibilities of the buck (thumper) position. An aging Farrior could spell Timmons at the mack, and Fox could spell Foote at the buck. If they spent a mid round pick on a guy like Brandon Spikes or Micah Johnson, he could be learn the buck positon for the future, with Fox moving over to back up Timmons at the mack when Farrior retires.

hawaiiansteel
03-30-2010, 12:47 AM
a 3-4 DE sleeper from Mike Tomlin's alma mater -


THE SLEEPER FILE
PROSPECTS TO WATCH FOR THE 2010 DRAFT

Sean Lissemore, DT, William&Mary, 6-3.5, 298, 4.75


It may be a bit of an oxymoron to describe an emerging 3-4 defensive lineman, most of whom are pretty big guys, as sleepers, but one worth a mention is D1A William & Mary DT Sean Lissemore. An unusually large number of NFL personnel people went to the school's pro day earlier this month mostly with the intention of checking out tweener DE Adrian Tracy, but couldn't help but notice Lissemore, a near 300-pounder with uncommon quickness and athleticism for such a big man. Indeed, Lissemore reportedly ran the 40 in close to 4.70 seconds, while recording times of 4.55 in the short shuttle and 7.60 in the three-cone drill, both of which would have been among the top ten for defensive linemen at the combine.

In fact, Lissemore is a good athlete who was actually a sprinter in hig school as well as a state-ranked wrestler. Lissemore is coming off a solid season at William & Mary where he had 66 tackles including 6.5 sacks and 7.5 other tackles for loss; and just to show his athleticism he also picked off a couple of passes and blocked a kick. And the NFL is starting to notice as he has received a number of invitations to visit pro teams in the coming weeks including Arizona, Atlanta, Seattle and Jacksonville, as well as both the Giants and Jets. Lissemore is also getting attention as both a 4-3 DT, as well as 3-4 DE where his size and athleticsm would make a very nice match.

http://www.gbnreport.com/sleeperfile.html

RuthlessBurgher
03-30-2010, 12:08 PM
Both Tracy (a 4-3 DE who would be converted to a 3-4 OLB) and Lissemore (a 4-3 DT who would be converted to a 3-4 DE) would be interesting late round considerations (considering Tomlin's obvious connection to that school...he was given an honorary doctorate while giving the commencement address there a year or two ago).

Oviedo
03-30-2010, 12:17 PM
Both Tracy (a 4-3 DE who would be converted to a 3-4 OLB) and Lissemore (a 4-3 DT who would be converted to a 3-4 DE) would be interesting late round considerations (considering Tomlin's obvious connection to that school...he was given an honorary doctorate while giving the commencement address there a year or two ago).

And just think of the field day all the Tomlin haters would have if he selected a player from his alma mater and they did not make the starting line up or Pro Bowl as rookies.

Do you think we might have one or two specific posters who would rip him? But then again they would rip him no matter who we take so I say take both of them just to tick them off. I think many of us discount skip over what they post anyway.

RuthlessBurgher
03-30-2010, 01:41 PM
Both Tracy (a 4-3 DE who would be converted to a 3-4 OLB) and Lissemore (a 4-3 DT who would be converted to a 3-4 DE) would be interesting late round considerations (considering Tomlin's obvious connection to that school...he was given an honorary doctorate while giving the commencement address there a year or two ago).

And just think of the field day all the Tomlin haters would have if he selected a player from his alma mater and they did not make the starting line up or Pro Bowl as rookies.

Do you think we might have one or two specific posters who would rip him? But then again they would rip him no matter who we take so I say take both of them just to tick them off. I think many of us discount skip over what they post anyway.

Overpaid Nepotist Janitor! :lol:

Oviedo
03-30-2010, 01:47 PM
Both Tracy (a 4-3 DE who would be converted to a 3-4 OLB) and Lissemore (a 4-3 DT who would be converted to a 3-4 DE) would be interesting late round considerations (considering Tomlin's obvious connection to that school...he was given an honorary doctorate while giving the commencement address there a year or two ago).

And just think of the field day all the Tomlin haters would have if he selected a player from his alma mater and they did not make the starting line up or Pro Bowl as rookies.

Do you think we might have one or two specific posters who would rip him? But then again they would rip him no matter who we take so I say take both of them just to tick them off. I think many of us discount and skip over what they post anyway.