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D Rock
03-23-2010, 05:07 PM
Let's put all the individual player pimping aside for a minute and try to take a position by position look at exactly how crucial the need for top talent infusion is at each position.

The Overall Need is on a 10 point scale and represents how essential I feel it is to pick a player at this position in one of the first 2 rounds this year.



CB (Under contract through) Age
Ike Taylor (2010) 29
Willie Gay (2010) 25
Joe Burnett (2011) 23
Keenan Lewis (2011) 23
Anthony Madison (2010) 28
Trai Williams (2010) 25

Age certainly isn't an issue here, but quality and contract length sure are. Ike Taylor is a very capable starter, but is only under contract one more year and is as far from a playmaker as you'll ever see a CB be. Beyond him, well...who knows. Willie Gay was a 5th round pick...should he really be counted on to be a starter? No. Same goes for Burnett. Keenan Lewis is the best bet to be the starter, but no one really knows how his development is going except for the coaches. Someone needs to be drafted very early and that player needs to see significant time and be ready to go if Ike Taylor moves on after his contract is up.

Overall Need - 10



FS
Ryan Clark (2013) 30
Will Allen (2012) 27
Ryan Mundy (2010) 25

This position is pretty set. Clark will be the starter for the next three years and Allen should be a solid insurance policy. Hopefully it was just Clark trying to make up for having Ty Carter next to him instead of Troy that made him look bad last year.

Overall Need - 4

SS
Troy Polamalu (2011) 28
Tuff Harris (2010) 27

Troy is the best in the game, and Harris is probably of no use. I'd figure Allen would be the first in at both FS and SS if anyone goes down this year. A good backup SS is needed, but you don't draft backups in rounds 1 and 2. Troy only has 2 years left on his contract but I expect him to be the absolute priority when his time comes for another contract and he will get one. I also don't think it's right to spend a high draft pick as an insurance policy against injury - that's why you have guys like Will Allen around to fill in as needed.

Overall Need - 2



How would you all rate the need at these positions as far as picking them in the first two rounds this year?


http://www.steelers.com/team/roster.html

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2009/12/20 ... -contract/

NJ-STEELER
03-23-2010, 05:11 PM
CB is the biggest need of the team IMO.

next is center, followed by replacing farrior

steelblood
03-23-2010, 05:27 PM
10 is the highest? Geez. Now I have to go back to the DL thread.

CB is an 11.
FS is a 2
SS is a 4 (I feel Troy is a little injury prone and Allen is a true FS, not a SS.)

These ratings are helpful, but if the Steelers love a player (even a FS) they could take him early. Let him learn for a year, play some nickel/dime and special teams. Then, let him challenge Clark in 2011 (if there is a season). Also, players that can play both safety positions or FS and CB are more valuable.

Lebsteel
03-23-2010, 05:38 PM
I agree the two biggest needs are CB and DL. I'm starting to think that it could be Kyle Wilson at #18. I'd love to see us take Thomas/Wilson and as someone suggested trade up into the high 2nd round (or very late 1st round) and take Odrick if he is still there.

Chadman
03-23-2010, 05:39 PM
Certainly the need for a starting quality CB for if not now, the future, is required. All well & good hoping that Lewis & Burnett develop, but if they don't the Steelers could have a long wait on their hands before they can improve the CB situation.

The question is though- with so much depth at CB this draft, is grabbing one in Round 1 or 2 'necessary'?

Certainly the need to add a CB is a priority- within the first 3-4 rounds.

As for FS, there is a certain need there too- if the Steelers either want to use Allen as the back-up SS, or if they see Mundy playing SS. But it's a low priority- Round 5 onwards.

Same with SS.

Lebsteel
03-23-2010, 05:45 PM
Certainly the need for a starting quality CB for if not now, the future, is required. All well & good hoping that Lewis & Burnett develop, but if they don't the Steelers could have a long wait on their hands before they can improve the CB situation.

The question is though- with so much depth at CB this draft, is grabbing one in Round 1 or 2 'necessary'?

Certainly the need to add a CB is a priority- within the first 3-4 rounds.

As for FS, there is a certain need there too- if the Steelers either want to use Allen as the back-up SS, or if they see Mundy playing SS. But it's a low priority- Round 5 onwards.

Same with SS.
Chadman....DOMINANT......DOMINANT......DOMINANT... ..OK, I think I got it now! :lol:

Chadman
03-23-2010, 05:49 PM
:D

hawaiiansteel
03-23-2010, 05:59 PM
10 is the highest? Geez. Now I have to go back to the DL thread.

CB is an 11.
FS is a 2
SS is a 4 (I feel Troy is a little injury prone and Allen is a true FS, not a SS.)

These ratings are helpful, but if the Steelers love a player (even a FS) they could take him early. Let him learn for a year, play some nickel/dime and special teams. Then, let him challenge Clark in 2011 (if there is a season). Also, players that can play both safety positions or FS and CB are more valuable.



you obviously don't know what you're talking about...our need at CB is definitely a 12. :)

RuthlessBurgher
03-23-2010, 06:23 PM
10 is the highest? Geez. Now I have to go back to the DL thread.

CB is an 11.
FS is a 2
SS is a 4 (I feel Troy is a little injury prone and Allen is a true FS, not a SS.)

These ratings are helpful, but if the Steelers love a player (even a FS) they could take him early. Let him learn for a year, play some nickel/dime and special teams. Then, let him challenge Clark in 2011 (if there is a season). Also, players that can play both safety positions or FS and CB are more valuable.



you obviously don't know what you're talking about...our need at CB is definitely a 12. :)

http://johnmccrory.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/volume-11.jpg

birtikidis
03-23-2010, 08:02 PM
I guess that I'm the only one that thinks that Lewis and Burnett weren't wasted picks. Safety, IMO is the biggest need in the defensive backfield. Both our backups are terrible, Ryan Clark is only a stopgap as far as I'm concerned until we insert someone else. I wouldn't draft a corner this season unless Haden is there (and that's only if Thomas isn't). And even though Ike doesn't pick the ball off, he sure does keep some of the elite receivers from making plays. take gay out of the equation (make him a nickle where he belongs) and let burnett or Lewis fight for it...

hawaiiansteel
03-23-2010, 08:14 PM
I guess that I'm the only one that thinks that Lewis and Burnett weren't wasted picks. Safety, IMO is the biggest need in the defensive backfield. Both our backups are terrible, Ryan Clark is only a stopgap as far as I'm concerned until we insert someone else. I wouldn't draft a corner this season unless Haden is there (and that's only if Thomas isn't). And even though Ike doesn't pick the ball off, he sure does keep some of the elite receivers from making plays. take gay out of the equation (make him a nickle where he belongs) and let burnett or Lewis fight for it...


and in the event Burnett and Lewis don't show marked improvement, wouldn't it make sense to have another fall-back option?

i'm all for giving your scenario a shot, but i also would like to add another promising young CB into the mix...just in case.

birtikidis
03-23-2010, 08:22 PM
I guess that I'm the only one that thinks that Lewis and Burnett weren't wasted picks. Safety, IMO is the biggest need in the defensive backfield. Both our backups are terrible, Ryan Clark is only a stopgap as far as I'm concerned until we insert someone else. I wouldn't draft a corner this season unless Haden is there (and that's only if Thomas isn't). And even though Ike doesn't pick the ball off, he sure does keep some of the elite receivers from making plays. take gay out of the equation (make him a nickle where he belongs) and let burnett or Lewis fight for it...


and in the event Burnett and Lewis don't show marked improvement, wouldn't it make sense to have another fall-back option?

i'm all for giving your scenario a shot, but i also would like to add another promising young CB into the mix...just in case.
3 options isn't enough for you (we have 3 in gay, lewis and burnett)? should we just keep adding guys until we run out? meanwhile if troy or clark go down we are left with 2 guys that are worthless and one guy that played for another team last year? we have a HUGE dropoff in talent at both safety spots when you look at the back ups. look at how bad our defense was when troy was out. Ryan was exposed. our backups were completely ineffectual. everyone looked bad. adn the problem there, is we have a guy who is amazing, but has a tendency to get dinged up (TP) and another guy approaching the twilight of his career in RC. we have three really young corners in Gay, lewis and burnett. why don't we see if they're not worthless before we discard them.

hawaiiansteel
03-23-2010, 08:43 PM
I guess that I'm the only one that thinks that Lewis and Burnett weren't wasted picks. Safety, IMO is the biggest need in the defensive backfield. Both our backups are terrible, Ryan Clark is only a stopgap as far as I'm concerned until we insert someone else. I wouldn't draft a corner this season unless Haden is there (and that's only if Thomas isn't). And even though Ike doesn't pick the ball off, he sure does keep some of the elite receivers from making plays. take gay out of the equation (make him a nickle where he belongs) and let burnett or Lewis fight for it...


and in the event Burnett and Lewis don't show marked improvement, wouldn't it make sense to have another fall-back option?

i'm all for giving your scenario a shot, but i also would like to add another promising young CB into the mix...just in case.
3 options isn't enough for you (we have 3 in gay, lewis and burnett)? should we just keep adding guys until we run out? meanwhile if troy or clark go down we are left with 2 guys that are worthless and one guy that played for another team last year? we have a HUGE dropoff in talent at both safety spots when you look at the back ups. look at how bad our defense was when troy was out. Ryan was exposed. our backups were completely ineffectual. everyone looked bad. adn the problem there, is we have a guy who is amazing, but has a tendency to get dinged up (TP) and another guy approaching the twilight of his career in RC. we have three really young corners in Gay, lewis and burnett. why don't we see if they're not worthless before we discard them.


yes, we should also add a safety, don't disagree with you there as i'm not sold on Ryan Mundy at all and Will Allen is reportedly a better special-teamer than an actual safety.

i'm also not saying to discard Gay, Lewis and Burnett...but personally i have seen enough of them not to want to rely on them to fill that huge glaring need we have at CB opposite Ike Taylor. instead, i would like to draft a good CB in the first two rounds and let the best man win.

allow me to quote Albert Einstein here with his definition of "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

NJ-STEELER
03-23-2010, 09:06 PM
and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner

birtikidis
03-23-2010, 09:18 PM
and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner
Nothing is wrong with it. BUT our holes are bigger and require less of a REACH to fill. other than haden who do you take in this draft where we draft? IMO no body. but if we took thomas, it wouldn't be a reach and it would fill a need. and he'd probably be BPA. and you get to see if the kids can turn it up.
now if Haden is there... take him. but don't reach for someone there just because it's a PERCEIVED need. I put CB as our #3 need after safety and LBer (I'm not sold on the Foote signing, he's not a long term solution and all but Timmons and wood are getting old.)

NJ-STEELER
03-24-2010, 12:41 AM
if they believe the guy is good, who cares if you take him 10 spots before he's supposed to go.


how many teams that drafted around 7-8 a few years ago said to themselves, "we like revis, but taking him here is just too high"

they're probably regretting that move.

hawaiiansteel
03-24-2010, 01:32 AM
and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner
Nothing is wrong with it. BUT our holes are bigger and require less of a REACH to fill. other than haden who do you take in this draft where we draft? IMO no body. but if we took thomas, it wouldn't be a reach and it would fill a need. and he'd probably be BPA. and you get to see if the kids can turn it up.
now if Haden is there... take him. but don't reach for someone there just because it's a PERCEIVED need. I put CB as our #3 need after safety and LBer (I'm not sold on the Foote signing, he's not a long term solution and all but Timmons and wood are getting old.)



sorry, but i don't agree that CB is our #3 need after safety and LBer. if we hadn't re-signed Ryan Clark and Larry Foote perhaps, but not now.

at safety we have Troy and Ryan Clark entrenched as starters...i will agree that we could still use a #3 safety (CB/FS Earl Thomas in Round 1, SS Myron Rolle in Round 5?).

at LB we have Harrison, Farrior, Timmons, Woodley, Fox and the newly-signed Larry Foote...I would be all for adding a pass rushing OLB here, but the first six spots are set.

at CB, who are our starters? last year's starters Willie Gay and Ike Taylor have contracts that expire after this season and every other CB on the roster has proven absolutely nothing so far...

this draft is very, very deep for CBs...please, please draft one of them early!

Steel Life
03-24-2010, 01:45 AM
As far as need is concerned, none is any more important than the others & there are cases to be made for each. But if I had to choose based on the info provided, I would choose Strong Safety as the apparent lack of real talent to fill in for Troy is alarming. That isn't to minimize the the need of the other positions, it's just that our defense is so dependent on Troy & the way he throws himself around, that a suitable replacement must be found.

That being said, take the BPA & don't look back.

hawaiiansteel
03-24-2010, 03:02 AM
As far as need is concerned, none is any more important than the others & there are cases to be made for each. But if I had to choose based on the info provided, I would choose Strong Safety as the apparent lack of real talent to fill in for Troy is alarming. That isn't to minimize the the need of the other positions, it's just that our defense is so dependent on Troy & the way he throws himself around, that a suitable replacement must be found.

That being said, take the BPA & don't look back.



so you think our biggest need is a strong safety to back up Troy all year long in case he gets hurt?

D Rock
03-24-2010, 09:24 AM
Starters are early round needs. Insurance policies at highly important positions ofr oft-injured superstars are middle round needs.

papillon
03-24-2010, 09:47 AM
It's difficult to evaluate the corner back situation due to the lack of playing time from Lewis and Burnett and Willie Gay's ability to get torched at will by opposing HOF quarterbacks such as Bruce Gradkowski, etc.

Were Lewis and Burnett simply rookies over their head in the Steeler defense? Or, are they simply not up to NFL snuff and one of them couldn't replace Gay? Hard to say at this point. I would rate the CB situation as a 9 simply because there isn't enoughb information to make a conclusion to the contrary (that is NFL caliber CB play).

Having a strong safety tandem is paramount to a good defense in the new NFL. Troy and Ryan are as good a duo as there is the game and it would be difficult to say the Steelers need at safety is any greater than 3 or 4. However, Troy was nicked all last year and Ryan may have issues with his health. The backups for these two positions are woefully inadequate and adding a safety (particularly one that can play both if necessary) would be a good plan.

The linebacking corps appears to be set, but Foote and Farrior are on the down side and Timmons is still learning to play inside in the Steeler defense. I would rate an ILB about a 7 and a rush OLB about a 4. A good inside linebacker at 1.18 would be a good plan as well.

The defensive line needs an infusion of youth unparalleled by any other position on the team. Hood appears to be a player, Hampton and Smith are two of the best at their positions, Kiesel is aging and Kirscke is the oldest (I think), the others are unproven. I see this as an 8 on your scale and another defensive end or a NT would be a welcomed addition as well.

And, just so Oviedo doesn't think I can't get out of the box :evil: and look at the offensive side of the ball I would rate running back a 6 or 7 and drafting Spiller at 1.18 (but no higher) would be a nice addition. Although, I'd rather see the bruiser Blount later in the draft, Spiller certainly would bolster the RB group.

Pappy

Oviedo
03-24-2010, 10:02 AM
and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner
Nothing is wrong with it. BUT our holes are bigger and require less of a REACH to fill. other than haden who do you take in this draft where we draft? IMO no body. but if we took thomas, it wouldn't be a reach and it would fill a need. and he'd probably be BPA. and you get to see if the kids can turn it up.
now if Haden is there... take him. but don't reach for someone there just because it's a PERCEIVED need. I put CB as our #3 need after safety and LBer (I'm not sold on the Foote signing, he's not a long term solution and all but Timmons and wood are getting old.)



sorry, but i don't agree that CB is our #3 need after safety and LBer. if we hadn't re-signed Ryan Clark and Larry Foote perhaps, but not now.

at safety we have Troy and Ryan Clark entrenched as starters...i will agree that we could still use a #3 safety (CB/FS Earl Thomas in Round 1, SS Myron Rolle in Round 5?).

at LB we have Harrison, Farrior, Timmons, Woodley, Fox and the newly-signed Larry Foote...I would be all for adding a pass rushing OLB here, but the first six spots are set.

at CB, who are our starters? last year's starters Willie Gay and Ike Taylor have contracts that expire after this season and every other CB on the roster has proven absolutely nothing so far...

this draft is very, very deep for CBs...please, please draft one of them early!

You criticize the CBs on the roster for proving nothing, but sing the praises of CB who have proved less in the NFL as the solution. The CBs on the roster have at least made an NFL roster and played in NFL games. The kids in the draft have done nothing to prove they will be any better on the same playing field.

Steel Life
03-24-2010, 10:39 AM
As far as need is concerned, none is any more important than the others & there are cases to be made for each. But if I had to choose based on the info provided, I would choose Strong Safety as the apparent lack of real talent to fill in for Troy is alarming. That isn't to minimize the the need of the other positions, it's just that our defense is so dependent on Troy & the way he throws himself around, that a suitable replacement must be found.

That being said, take the BPA & don't look back.

so you think our biggest need is a strong safety to back up Troy all year long in case he gets hurt?
I do - as far as the secondary is concerned & I'm far less concerned about the secondary than I am about the defensive line & then the LB depth (age-wise). You see, I'm a firm believer that the front seven make a good secondary, not the other way around.

Last year our replacement for Troy was Tyrone Carter & our secondary was torched relentlessly - it wasn't all Gay's fault. We must be prepared for the fact that Troy may be becoming a bit brittle - like Bob Sanders - & like the Colts we must find some talent to develop behind him like they did in Bethea.

williar
03-24-2010, 08:00 PM
I think cb is by far our most pressing need. I would love to get a stoudt DL or a ferocious LB, but I just can't see how we could pass up CB who has immediate starting potential. Even if it is only to create some competition in the backfield. We all know what happened when Will Gay was handed the job without really competing for it. In this day of pass gone wild NFL, IMO, you need at least four quality starters and a decent nickle just to stay competitve against average qb's. Our secondary was the weakest part of our team and needs upgrading, badly.......

hawaiiansteel
03-24-2010, 08:29 PM
and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner
Nothing is wrong with it. BUT our holes are bigger and require less of a REACH to fill. other than haden who do you take in this draft where we draft? IMO no body. but if we took thomas, it wouldn't be a reach and it would fill a need. and he'd probably be BPA. and you get to see if the kids can turn it up.
now if Haden is there... take him. but don't reach for someone there just because it's a PERCEIVED need. I put CB as our #3 need after safety and LBer (I'm not sold on the Foote signing, he's not a long term solution and all but Timmons and wood are getting old.)



sorry, but i don't agree that CB is our #3 need after safety and LBer. if we hadn't re-signed Ryan Clark and Larry Foote perhaps, but not now.

at safety we have Troy and Ryan Clark entrenched as starters...i will agree that we could still use a #3 safety (CB/FS Earl Thomas in Round 1, SS Myron Rolle in Round 5?).

at LB we have Harrison, Farrior, Timmons, Woodley, Fox and the newly-signed Larry Foote...I would be all for adding a pass rushing OLB here, but the first six spots are set.

at CB, who are our starters? last year's starters Willie Gay and Ike Taylor have contracts that expire after this season and every other CB on the roster has proven absolutely nothing so far...

this draft is very, very deep for CBs...please, please draft one of them early!

You criticize the CBs on the roster for proving nothing, but sing the praises of CB who have proved less in the NFL as the solution. The CBs on the roster have at least made an NFL roster and played in NFL games. The kids in the draft have done nothing to prove they will be any better on the same playing field.


we need an infusion of talent at the CB position, i think it's too risky to rely on the same group of CBs that couldn't get the job done last year.

the NFL Draft is a crapshoot, there is no guarantee that any player drafted will ever contribute. however, i think it would be a good idea to draft a promising CB and add him to the mix. this is a very deep draft and there is some good value to be had in Rounds 2 and 3, why not take advantage of that value?

let them all compete against each other and may the best CB win, whoever he is. i'll be cheering just as hard for the returning CBs as i would be for the rookie, like you i just want the very best for our Steelers.

Chadman
03-24-2010, 10:34 PM
Interesting (or perhaps concerning is the better term) bunch of stats for Ike & Willie Gay for the season...and we'll add Ryan Clark for good measure...

Thrown at-
Willie Gay- 105 times (7th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 98 times (12th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 26 times (51st in NFL- Safeties)

Receptions-
Willie Gay- 71 times (2nd in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 57 times (14th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 10 times (65th in NFL- Safeties)

Reception Percentage-
Willie Gay- 67.6% (21st in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 58.2% (65th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 38.5% (83rd in NFL- Safeties)

Yards Allowed-
Willie Gay- 775 yards (9th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 739 yards (11th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 180 yards (54th in NFL- Safeties)

Average Yards Allowed-
Willie Gay- 10.9 yards (79th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 13 yards (35th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 18 yards (14th in NFL for Safeties)

Yards After Catch-
Willie Gay- 260 yards (17th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 178 yards (52nd in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 15 yards (84th in NFL for Safeties)

Touchdowns Allowed-
Willie Gay- 2 TD's (47th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 3 TD's (33rd in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 1 TD's (44th in NFL for Safeties)

Pass Defensed-
Willie Gay- 11 (12th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 9 (19th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 4 (14th in NFL for Safeties)

NFL Rating- (QB Rating against CB- lower is better)
Willie Gay- 95.5 (34th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 87.9 (45th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 36.2 (82nd in NFL for Safeties)

Maybe Clark's agent was kidding when he called Clark one of the elite Safeties in the NFL?

What is concerning is that for all our posturing on how good Ike is, his stats say he is moderately (and that is generous) better than the vilified Willie Gay. In fact, it would seem Gay is better at keeping the play in front of him than Ike is- just gives up far too many receptions.

Thoughts?

NJ-STEELER
03-24-2010, 11:19 PM
and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner
Nothing is wrong with it. BUT our holes are bigger and require less of a REACH to fill. other than haden who do you take in this draft where we draft? IMO no body. but if we took thomas, it wouldn't be a reach and it would fill a need. and he'd probably be BPA. and you get to see if the kids can turn it up.
now if Haden is there... take him. but don't reach for someone there just because it's a PERCEIVED need. I put CB as our #3 need after safety and LBer (I'm not sold on the Foote signing, he's not a long term solution and all but Timmons and wood are getting old.)








sorry, but i don't agree that CB is our #3 need after safety and LBer. if we hadn't re-signed Ryan Clark and Larry Foote perhaps, but not now.

at safety we have Troy and Ryan Clark entrenched as starters...i will agree that we could still use a #3 safety (CB/FS Earl Thomas in Round 1, SS Myron Rolle in Round 5?).

at LB we have Harrison, Farrior, Timmons, Woodley, Fox and the newly-signed Larry Foote...I would be all for adding a pass rushing OLB here, but the first six spots are set.

at CB, who are our starters? last year's starters Willie Gay and Ike Taylor have contracts that expire after this season and every other CB on the roster has proven absolutely nothing so far...

this draft is very, very deep for CBs...please, please draft one of them early!

You criticize the CBs on the roster for proving nothing, but sing the praises of CB who have proved less in the NFL as the solution. The CBs on the roster have at least made an NFL roster and played in NFL games. The kids in the draft have done nothing to prove they will be any better on the same playing field.

you think 1st and 2nd round corners in this draft will have difficulty making this roster?

birtikidis
03-24-2010, 11:34 PM
Here's what some of you are failing to understand. our LB'ers (which i say are a need) are OLD (except 2 of them). I'm not thinking what do we need for next year, and neither are the steelers. I'm thinking LONG TERM. seriously people, what do we do when we have 3 lbers that all end up gone at the same time and NO YOUNG TALENT to step in??? seriously, you build through the draft, you don't look at the draft as an IMMEDIATE solution. Sure Haden would be nice, but I wouldn't REACH for anyone else because there is just as good talent sitting there in the second.

birtikidis
03-24-2010, 11:39 PM
Interesting (or perhaps concerning is the better term) bunch of stats for Ike & Willie Gay for the season...and we'll add Ryan Clark for good measure...

Thrown at-
Willie Gay- 105 times (7th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 98 times (12th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 26 times (51st in NFL- Safeties)

Receptions-
Willie Gay- 71 times (2nd in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 57 times (14th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 10 times (65th in NFL- Safeties)

Reception Percentage-
Willie Gay- 67.6% (21st in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 58.2% (65th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 38.5% (83rd in NFL- Safeties)

Yards Allowed-
Willie Gay- 775 yards (9th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 739 yards (11th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 180 yards (54th in NFL- Safeties)

Average Yards Allowed-
Willie Gay- 10.9 yards (79th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 13 yards (35th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 18 yards (14th in NFL for Safeties)

Yards After Catch-
Willie Gay- 260 yards (17th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 178 yards (52nd in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 15 yards (84th in NFL for Safeties)

Touchdowns Allowed-
Willie Gay- 2 TD's (47th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 3 TD's (33rd in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 1 TD's (44th in NFL for Safeties)

Pass Defensed-
Willie Gay- 11 (12th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 9 (19th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 4 (14th in NFL for Safeties)

NFL Rating- (QB Rating against CB- lower is better)
Willie Gay- 95.5 (34th in NFL)
Ike Taylor- 87.9 (45th in NFL)
Ryan Clark- 36.2 (82nd in NFL for Safeties)

Maybe Clark's agent was kidding when he called Clark one of the elite Safeties in the NFL?

What is concerning is that for all our posturing on how good Ike is, his stats say he is moderately (and that is generous) better than the vilified Willie Gay. In fact, it would seem Gay is better at keeping the play in front of him than Ike is- just gives up far too many receptions.

Thoughts?
the question is Chadman, was last season an aberation due to having much lesser talent playing the safety and DE positions? As a whole our defense underperformed. Defenses are formed from more than one position, and perhaps, since we don't know, maybe alot of those receptions were caused from inconsistent play from Carter? last season was eerily reminscent of 2006 when we lost TP and had to put in TC....

and about your comment on Gay and Ike, how often was Gay lined up on the opponents #1? and with little or no quality help over the top, you should expect numbers to be skewed a little.

Chadman
03-24-2010, 11:54 PM
Here's a question- would Wilie Gay be better off playing FS?

birtikidis
03-25-2010, 12:01 PM
Here's a question- would Wilie Gay be better off playing FS?
perhaps, though, I'd like to see if he makes any progress from last year. I don't know if he's going to be good or not, but, usually after the first year starting the player progresses. hopefully that is the case with him.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-25-2010, 01:13 PM
I think that CB is the one position where there is a question mark that we can't answer. We all know that Steelers rookies don't show us anything their rookie years. We also know that players often come out of nowhere in their second year and that the coaches had confidence in their abilities all along.......we only find out about that after they succeed.

Is Lewis or Burnett ready to start? I have no idea but I know that the team can answer this much better than any of us can. Two things I will say are:

1) Gay is not a starter so I hope that the plan for this season includes someone else starting across from Ike.

2) It is highly, highly unlikely that a rook will start at corner for us this year.

Steel Life
03-25-2010, 01:24 PM
The stats are helpful & I certainly want to see what another year of maturing does for Gay before writing him off. But what the stats don't tell you are situational issues that lead to a skewed perspective of what actually is the problem. Injuries are always a key factor, but game situations are where the truth often lies - like the Oakland game for example. I don't remember Gay getting abused as much as I do Taylor getting torched on a long crossing route & jump ball on the sideline on the key drive. I remember Carter being out of position several times, Burnett dropping a sure INT & Mundy giving up the winning score after a PI call. But what I remember most of all was that our vaunted defense couldn't get to Gradkowski enough to minimize those situations.

I have no problem if they grab McCourty in the 2nd, but beyond him I don't see any other value except at safety.

RuthlessBurgher
03-25-2010, 03:06 PM
I think they would have to trade up to get McCourty, though. I think he comes off the board in the late first or early second.

hawaiiansteel
03-25-2010, 03:27 PM
I would absolutely LOVE Alabama CB Kareem Jackson in the second round!!! :tt2



"If Florida draft prospect Joe Haden is still undrafted at #18, Pittsburgh may have a tough time passing on him. And I am hearing the Steelers have a definite interest in another CB as well, Alabama product Kareem Jackson, who they would be thrilled to land in Round 2."


http://steelershotline.com/coverstory.html