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Lebsteel
03-17-2010, 11:44 PM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

Steel Life
03-17-2010, 11:51 PM
I'm assuming you're keeping Timmons inside at Farrior's spot? There's a logic to what you're suggesting & I think that Harrison is unselfish enough to do it. Would you consider the same option for others like Worilds or Hughes?

hawaiiansteel
03-17-2010, 11:55 PM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?



great idea, Brandon Graham may very well be the best pass rusher in the draft. with Willie Gay back there defending, you need to get to the QB quick.

i'm not sure if Harrison can play ILB or not, but he's getting older and can't play forever. Groom Graham as Harrison's replacement now, we all know how long it takes to learn Saint LeBeau's defense. :stirpot

NJ-STEELER
03-18-2010, 12:50 AM
didn't jimmy play ILB in his first few camps here

Oviedo
03-18-2010, 07:56 AM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd have no problem with Brandon Graham in Round 1. Who knows, he could develop into a better pass rusher than Harrison.

I have actually proposed Harrison and Timmons inside together before. The wear and tear will eventually beat up Harrison on the outside because he is a pure bull rusher and bangs with guys who outweigh him by 50+ pounds every play. We started seeing him get dinged last year. But he is a rock who I think would be an awesome run stopper in the middle.

papillon
03-18-2010, 08:56 AM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd rather an ILB with Harrison inside and move Timmons to his natural position as an OLB. He was drafted to play outside; the Steelers didn't realize that Woodley was going to become a very good OLB so quickly and that Silverback was going to become a DMVP and stalwart OLB. They are simply finding a way to get Timmons' athletic ability on the field by playing him inside.

Timmons will be Silverback's replacement in 2-3 years.

Pappy

Lebsteel
03-18-2010, 08:58 AM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd have no problem with Brandon Graham in Round 1. Who knows, he could develop into a better pass rusher than Harrison.

I have actually proposed Harrison and Timmons inside together before. The wear and tear will eventually beat up Harrison on the outside because he is a pure bull rusher and bangs with guys who outweigh him by 50+ pounds every play. We started seeing him get dinged last year. But he is a rock who I think would be an awesome run stopper in the middle.
I didn't take time to explain my logic, but Harrison being outweighed by at least 80 to 100 lbs. by most left tackles is part of the reason I was thinking that way. He is certainly not the prototypical height and weight of a 3-4 OLB. As we all know he is only 6'0" and 242 lbs. Graham is only 6'1" but is 25 lbs. heavier and runs a 4.6 to 4.7 40 while benching 31 reps. So he is certainly quick enough and strong enough to fight off the big LTs. He absolutely dominated Bryan Baluga, a top 10 LT prospect, last year. So, it may be an option if the Steelers are able to trade down, but I'm not sure I would do it if we stay at 18.

Oviedo
03-18-2010, 08:59 AM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd rather an ILB with Harrison inside and move Timmons to his natural position as an OLB. He was drafted to play outside; the Steelers didn't realize that Woodley was going to become a very good OLB so quickly and that Silverback was going to become a DMVP and stalwart OLB. They are simply finding a way to get Timmons' athletic ability on the field by playing him inside.

Timmons will be Silverback's replacement in 2-3 years.

Pappy

Good points. It would be interesting to see what Timmons speed on the outside could do versus Harrison and Woodley's pure bull rishes. It would be interesting to see them switch up during games and flip keeping the opponents off balance.

Lebsteel
03-18-2010, 09:01 AM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd rather an ILB with Harrison inside and move Timmons to his natural position as an OLB. He was drafted to play outside; the Steelers didn't realize that Woodley was going to become a very good OLB so quickly and that Silverback was going to become a DMVP and stalwart OLB. They are simply finding a way to get Timmons' athletic ability on the field by playing him inside.

Timmons will be Silverback's replacement in 2-3 years.

Pappy
Yea, but what troubles me about Timmons is that he is even lighter (234 lbs.) than Harrison and does not have a real strong upper body. He certainly has the speed, but I think he could be quickly worn down by the big LTs that weigh 100 lbs. more than him.

papillon
03-18-2010, 09:18 AM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd rather an ILB with Harrison inside and move Timmons to his natural position as an OLB. He was drafted to play outside; the Steelers didn't realize that Woodley was going to become a very good OLB so quickly and that Silverback was going to become a DMVP and stalwart OLB. They are simply finding a way to get Timmons' athletic ability on the field by playing him inside.

Timmons will be Silverback's replacement in 2-3 years.

Pappy
Yea, but what troubles me about Timmons is that he is even lighter (234 lbs.) than Harrison and does not have a real strong upper body. He certainly has the speed, but I think he could be quickly worn down by the big LTs that weigh 100 lbs. more than him.

It is a concern as you have stated; however, I doubt that Timmons would bull rush an entire game. His greatest gifts are quick twitch muscles, I would expect him to rush more like Freeney than Harrison. Of course, over the course of a game this will wear you down as well, but, not so much physically, but from an aerobic standpoint.

A bull rush or two per game to try and surprise the tackle would be effective for Timmons, other than that I see the swim move, something similar to Freeney's spin move or simple outquick them to the outside (ala Lawrence Taylor). I think he'd hold up fine and he'd be a huge asset chasing down plays form the backside.

Just my 2 cents...

Pappy

steelblood
03-18-2010, 09:18 AM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd have no problem with Brandon Graham in Round 1. Who knows, he could develop into a better pass rusher than Harrison.

I have actually proposed Harrison and Timmons inside together before. The wear and tear will eventually beat up Harrison on the outside because he is a pure bull rusher and bangs with guys who outweigh him by 50+ pounds every play. We started seeing him get dinged last year. But he is a rock who I think would be an awesome run stopper in the middle.

I don't get the wear and tear angle, oviedo. Inside he'll be banging into squat guards and centers and taking on Fullbacks in the hole. I think the wear and tear is pretty similar, maybe worse inside.

But, I really don't have a problem moving him inside. He is the toughest backer we have and would definitely stick his nose in there.

Oviedo
03-18-2010, 10:12 AM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd have no problem with Brandon Graham in Round 1. Who knows, he could develop into a better pass rusher than Harrison.

I have actually proposed Harrison and Timmons inside together before. The wear and tear will eventually beat up Harrison on the outside because he is a pure bull rusher and bangs with guys who outweigh him by 50+ pounds every play. We started seeing him get dinged last year. But he is a rock who I think would be an awesome run stopper in the middle.

I don't get the wear and tear angle, oviedo. Inside he'll be banging into squat guards and centers and taking on Fullbacks in the hole. I think the wear and tear is pretty similar, maybe worse inside.

But, I really don't have a problem moving him inside. He is the toughest backer we have and would definitely stick his nose in there.

Would be the mauling he gets by OTs and they way they get him in head locks and twist his neck. That would be called holding on the inside but OTs are getting a pass. That's why I think bull rushers aren't getting calls because they are locking up with the OTs.

Just my opinion on what I see.

Dee Dub
03-18-2010, 11:11 AM
For next year??? Absolutely not!! It would take Graham some time to make that move to 3-4 OLB. In the years after that??? Hmmmmm?? Interesting. Then James Harrison is 33. I'm not so sure that is a good idea.

frankthetank1
03-18-2010, 12:21 PM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd rather an ILB with Harrison inside and move Timmons to his natural position as an OLB. He was drafted to play outside; the Steelers didn't realize that Woodley was going to become a very good OLB so quickly and that Silverback was going to become a DMVP and stalwart OLB. They are simply finding a way to get Timmons' athletic ability on the field by playing him inside.

Timmons will be Silverback's replacement in 2-3 years.

Pappy
Yea, but what troubles me about Timmons is that he is even lighter (234 lbs.) than Harrison and does not have a real strong upper body. He certainly has the speed, but I think he could be quickly worn down by the big LTs that weigh 100 lbs. more than him.

It is a concern as you have stated; however, I doubt that Timmons would bull rush an entire game. His greatest gifts are quick twitch muscles, I would expect him to rush more like Freeney than Harrison. Of course, over the course of a game this will wear you down as well, but, not so much physically, but from an aerobic standpoint.

A bull rush or two per game to try and surprise the tackle would be effective for Timmons, other than that I see the swim move, something similar to Freeney's spin move or simple outquick them to the outside (ala Lawrence Taylor). I think he'd hold up fine and he'd be a huge asset chasing down plays form the backside.

Just my 2 cents...

Pappy

i agree i think timmons should be playing outside. he is so fast he would be great rushing the qb at olb. he was great in college playing olb. it reminds me a little bit of chris hope playing fs

Oviedo
03-18-2010, 12:38 PM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd rather an ILB with Harrison inside and move Timmons to his natural position as an OLB. He was drafted to play outside; the Steelers didn't realize that Woodley was going to become a very good OLB so quickly and that Silverback was going to become a DMVP and stalwart OLB. They are simply finding a way to get Timmons' athletic ability on the field by playing him inside.

Timmons will be Silverback's replacement in 2-3 years.

Pappy
Yea, but what troubles me about Timmons is that he is even lighter (234 lbs.) than Harrison and does not have a real strong upper body. He certainly has the speed, but I think he could be quickly worn down by the big LTs that weigh 100 lbs. more than him.

It is a concern as you have stated; however, I doubt that Timmons would bull rush an entire game. His greatest gifts are quick twitch muscles, I would expect him to rush more like Freeney than Harrison. Of course, over the course of a game this will wear you down as well, but, not so much physically, but from an aerobic standpoint.

A bull rush or two per game to try and surprise the tackle would be effective for Timmons, other than that I see the swim move, something similar to Freeney's spin move or simple outquick them to the outside (ala Lawrence Taylor). I think he'd hold up fine and he'd be a huge asset chasing down plays form the backside.

Just my 2 cents...

Pappy

i agree i think timmons should be playing outside. he is so fast he would be great rushing the qb at olb. he was great in college playing olb. it reminds me a little bit of chris hope playing fs

Case in point. Look at when Starks and Colon got called for holding---it was against speed rushers that forced them to "reach." I can't remember a single time they were called for holding against a bull rush where they lock up with the pass rusher.

I think if the league continues to refuse to call blatant holding if the OT is locked up with the pass rusher teams are going to be forced to evolve to speed rusher which force the big OTs to move and reach. I think Timmons would be great in that role.

RuthlessBurgher
03-18-2010, 12:44 PM
I'd be willing to trade up in the second to take TCU OLB Jerry Hughes. But I wouldn't plan on moving Harrison anywhere...not this year, not next year, not ever. Harrison is fine where he is, but adding another dynamic pass rushing OLB like Hughes could allow a rotation to keep Harrison and Woodley fresh and more effective for the entire season (in seemed like last season when Harrison was playing well then Woodley wasn't and vice versa). Right now, if anything happened to Harrison or Woodley, our only option would be to move Timmons outside, since I don't want to see Frazier or Bailey starting. It would be good to have better depth at OLB with a premium pass rushing like Hughes in the early 2nd if we are able to trade up (I like Graham as well...Woodley clone...but I would prefer the value of Hughes in round 2 than Graham or, say, Sergio Kindle in round 1).

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 12:52 PM
I have to admit that I only read a few of the posts. what lunacy.
move a pro bowl winning, NFL defensive player of the year winning, all pro outside linebacker to the INSIDE linebacker spot and play a rookie there? that's ridiculous! Hey I got an idea why don't we move Troy to CB and draft Thomas to play S?
and to the person who said Timmons natural spot is OLB, that's OLB in a 4-3 most OLB in 4-3 schemes translate to MLB in a 3-4. We drafted him to play OLB because we hadn't had anyone emerge at the position yet.
now if the original poster would have said lets draft Graham to play behind Jimmy hate for a season or two (until Harrison retires) then let him start, I would have agreed.

Oviedo
03-18-2010, 01:28 PM
I have to admit that I only read a few of the posts. what lunacy.
move a pro bowl winning, NFL defensive player of the year winning, all pro outside linebacker to the INSIDE linebacker spot and play a rookie there? that's ridiculous! Hey I got an idea why don't we move Troy to CB and draft Thomas to play S?
and to the person who said Timmons natural spot is OLB, that's OLB in a 4-3 most OLB in 4-3 schemes translate to MLB in a 3-4. We drafted him to play OLB because we hadn't had anyone emerge at the position yet.
now if the original poster would have said lets draft Graham to play behind Jimmy hate for a season or two (until Harrison retires) then let him start, I would have agreed.

Read all the posts and understand the logic being put forth. Harrison was DPOY two years ago. FWP was a 1400 yard rusher just 3 years ago. Those are a lifetime ago in the NFL.

I think a big part of what I was trying to articulate is after Harrison's DPOY, the NFL made a conscious decision to "leaglize" holding by OTs if the OTs were locked up against the rusher. That IMO was directly targeted against guys like Harriosn who are bullrushers in the league's efforts to keep QBs upright and healthy. As a result we saw Harrison gettoing mauled last year with no calls.

Again, IMO the only way to nullify the "leagalized" holding is using speed rushers who force OTs to reach and pull a player down. They can't ignore that. I would also think that Harrison could be a devastating inside pass blitzer.

Lebsteel
03-18-2010, 01:39 PM
I have to admit that I only read a few of the posts. what lunacy.
move a pro bowl winning, NFL defensive player of the year winning, all pro outside linebacker to the INSIDE linebacker spot and play a rookie there? that's ridiculous! Hey I got an idea why don't we move Troy to CB and draft Thomas to play S?
and to the person who said Timmons natural spot is OLB, that's OLB in a 4-3 most OLB in 4-3 schemes translate to MLB in a 3-4. We drafted him to play OLB because we hadn't had anyone emerge at the position yet.
now if the original poster would have said lets draft Graham to play behind Jimmy hate for a season or two (until Harrison retires) then let him start, I would have agreed.
I think Harrison will be here, hopefully, for more than a season or two. I realize he is a Pro Bowl, NFL DPOY etc.... but he is definitely not the ideal size and could possibly be just as good inside as outside. It's just something I was thinking about last evening when considering who may be available when we pick.

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 01:45 PM
I have to admit that I only read a few of the posts. what lunacy.
move a pro bowl winning, NFL defensive player of the year winning, all pro outside linebacker to the INSIDE linebacker spot and play a rookie there? that's ridiculous! Hey I got an idea why don't we move Troy to CB and draft Thomas to play S?
and to the person who said Timmons natural spot is OLB, that's OLB in a 4-3 most OLB in 4-3 schemes translate to MLB in a 3-4. We drafted him to play OLB because we hadn't had anyone emerge at the position yet.
now if the original poster would have said lets draft Graham to play behind Jimmy hate for a season or two (until Harrison retires) then let him start, I would have agreed.

Read all the posts and understand the logic being put forth. Harrison was DPOY two years ago. FWP was a 1400 yard rusher just 3 years ago. Those are a lifetime ago in the NFL.

I think a big part of what I was trying to articulate is after Harrison's DPOY, the NFL made a conscious decision to "leaglize" holding by OTs if the OTs were locked up against the rusher. That IMO was directly targeted against guys like Harriosn who are bullrushers in the league's efforts to keep QBs upright and healthy. As a result we saw Harrison gettoing mauled last year with no calls.

Again, IMO the only way to nullify the "leagalized" holding is using speed rushers who force OTs to reach and pull a player down. They can't ignore that. I would also think that Harrison could be a devastating inside pass blitzer.
you are insane. Harrison had a great year last year. has not been injured. why would you move one of your best players. this is ridiculous.

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 01:47 PM
I have to admit that I only read a few of the posts. what lunacy.
move a pro bowl winning, NFL defensive player of the year winning, all pro outside linebacker to the INSIDE linebacker spot and play a rookie there? that's ridiculous! Hey I got an idea why don't we move Troy to CB and draft Thomas to play S?
and to the person who said Timmons natural spot is OLB, that's OLB in a 4-3 most OLB in 4-3 schemes translate to MLB in a 3-4. We drafted him to play OLB because we hadn't had anyone emerge at the position yet.
now if the original poster would have said lets draft Graham to play behind Jimmy hate for a season or two (until Harrison retires) then let him start, I would have agreed.
I think Harrison will be here, hopefully, for more than a season or two. I realize he is a Pro Bowl, NFL DPOY etc.... but he is definitely not the ideal size and could possibly be just as good inside as outside. It's just something I was thinking about last evening when considering who may be available when we pick.
he POSSIBLY could be a good inside linebacker. but we KNOW he is a GREAT outside linebacker. moving him would be stupid (i'm not implying that you are stupid, just the idea no offense).
this goes along the lines of moving Colon to guard. since one random guy said it on a message board everyone else follows along.

Oviedo
03-18-2010, 02:17 PM
I have to admit that I only read a few of the posts. what lunacy.
move a pro bowl winning, NFL defensive player of the year winning, all pro outside linebacker to the INSIDE linebacker spot and play a rookie there? that's ridiculous! Hey I got an idea why don't we move Troy to CB and draft Thomas to play S?
and to the person who said Timmons natural spot is OLB, that's OLB in a 4-3 most OLB in 4-3 schemes translate to MLB in a 3-4. We drafted him to play OLB because we hadn't had anyone emerge at the position yet.
now if the original poster would have said lets draft Graham to play behind Jimmy hate for a season or two (until Harrison retires) then let him start, I would have agreed.

Read all the posts and understand the logic being put forth. Harrison was DPOY two years ago. FWP was a 1400 yard rusher just 3 years ago. Those are a lifetime ago in the NFL.

I think a big part of what I was trying to articulate is after Harrison's DPOY, the NFL made a conscious decision to "leaglize" holding by OTs if the OTs were locked up against the rusher. That IMO was directly targeted against guys like Harriosn who are bullrushers in the league's efforts to keep QBs upright and healthy. As a result we saw Harrison gettoing mauled last year with no calls.

Again, IMO the only way to nullify the "leagalized" holding is using speed rushers who force OTs to reach and pull a player down. They can't ignore that. I would also think that Harrison could be a devastating inside pass blitzer.
you are insane. Harrison had a great year last year. has not been injured. why would you move one of your best players. this is ridiculous.

Great insightful analysis. You are contributing so much to this debate.

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 02:20 PM
Ovi, it isn't even a debate. it's a ridiculous idea.

Oviedo
03-18-2010, 02:30 PM
Ovi, it isn't even a debate. it's a ridiculous idea.

Four years ago the idea of Harrison being the NFL Defensive Player of the Year was a "ridiculous" idea too when all he was was a career long special teams player.

Not even the most ardent Steelers fan would have predicted that or thought it possible.


All great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning.
Albert Camus (1913 - 1960),

Lebsteel
03-18-2010, 02:40 PM
Ovi, it isn't even a debate. it's a ridiculous idea.
I'd prefer to call it, "thinking outside the box." That is what happened when Rod Woodson moved to safety from cornerback. He was a GREAT CB, but moved to safety when he was about Harrison's age and the Ravens had the chance to draft a great CB prospect (Chris McCalister). But, of course, you probably don't remember that...I'm not saying this should be our first option, but it would be something to consider if our top picks were off the board.

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Ovi, it isn't even a debate. it's a ridiculous idea.
I'd prefer to call it, "thinking outside the box." That is what happened when Rod Woodson moved to safety from cornerback. He was a GREAT CB, but moved to safety when he was about Harrison's age and the Ravens had the chance to draft a great CB prospect (Chris McCalister). But, of course, you probably don't remember that...I'm not saying this should be our first option, but it would be something to consider if our top picks were off the board.
CB to Safety is totally different. OLB have no where near the coverage responsibilities as an ILB, moving him in would actually be a detriment BECAUSE of his age not the other way around. or do you think that Jimmy could cover a streaking TE the way Farrior did in his prime (or even kirkland for that matter). Remember Kevin Greene? He was a damn good OLB his entire career because his coverage responsibilities were limited. Sure Harrison has to cover at times, but not even nearly as much as he would as an ILB.

And you're comparing one of the greatest athletes ever in the NFL to jimmy (no disrespect to jimmy).

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 02:50 PM
Ovi, it isn't even a debate. it's a ridiculous idea.

Four years ago the idea of Harrison being the NFL Defensive Player of the Year was a "ridiculous" idea too when all he was was a career long special teams player.

Not even the most ardent Steelers fan would have predicted that or thought it possible.


All great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning.
Albert Camus (1913 - 1960),
so you're gonna use the arguement that since he did it once that he could do it again? seriously?
and that's a good enough reason for you to move one of the best pass rushers in the NFL to a position where he would have significantly more coverage responsibilities taking away his rush opportunities?

Lebsteel
03-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Ovi, it isn't even a debate. it's a ridiculous idea.
I'd prefer to call it, "thinking outside the box." That is what happened when Rod Woodson moved to safety from cornerback. He was a GREAT CB, but moved to safety when he was about Harrison's age and the Ravens had the chance to draft a great CB prospect (Chris McCalister). But, of course, you probably don't remember that...I'm not saying this should be our first option, but it would be something to consider if our top picks were off the board.
CB to Safety is totally different. OLB have no where near the coverage responsibilities as an ILB, moving him in would actually be a detriment BECAUSE of his age not the other way around. or do you think that Jimmy could cover a streaking TE the way Farrior did in his prime (or even kirkland for that matter). Remember Kevin Greene? He was a damn good OLB his entire career because his coverage responsibilities were limited. Sure Harrison has to cover at times, but not even nearly as much as he would as an ILB.

And you're comparing one of the greatest athletes ever in the NFL to jimmy (no disrespect to jimmy).
OK, Harrison might have, say, 3 good NFL years to go. If Thomas, Haden, McClain, Odrick, your favorite guy, and the rest are gone AND we get a chance to trade down and the BPA is Graham, would you pass on him? Would you draft him and let him sit behind Harrison for three years? I realize it is a maybe far-fetched scenario, but after a year or less of learning, I think Graham MIGHT be better than the aging (happens to everyone) Harrison. The question would then be do we move Harrison inside or stick with Foote. I'd go with Harrison or at least let him give it a try.

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 03:30 PM
yea I'd draft Graham. let him sit next season.. give him some snaps in 2011 (if there is a season that year) then start him in 2012. and no, i wouldn't move harrison. I think we NEED to draft an OLB now. but that doesn't mean move Harrison, bench either farrior or Timmons and see what happens.

frankthetank1
03-18-2010, 04:35 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have

feltdizz
03-18-2010, 05:51 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have

Is Timmons better than Jimmy Hate at OLB? I understand the concern with Timmons inside but it's a little overblown IMO. It's not like our run D is abysmal.

frankthetank1
03-18-2010, 08:56 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have

Is Timmons better than Jimmy Hate at OLB? I understand the concern with Timmons inside but it's a little overblown IMO. It's not like our run D is abysmal.

there are few better than harrison at olb if any. the run d is great, i just think timmons natural position is olb. i would be suprised if timmons isnt playing olb when jimmy hate retires

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 09:01 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have
Timmons is fine where he is. He definetly wasn't our worst LB'er last year. He's young and he's only gonna get better. moving Timmons is as bad of an idea as moving Colon would be.

frankthetank1
03-18-2010, 09:09 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have
Timmons is fine where he is. He definetly wasn't our worst LB'er last year. He's young and he's only gonna get better. moving Timmons is as bad of an idea as moving Colon would be.

im not sure if colon played guard in college. i do remember timmons dominating at olb in college though. i dont think timmons was our worst LB'er i think farrior was. when timmons has filled in at olb he has done a great job so i wouldnt write it off as a bad idea. we have some serious depth at LB now with the signing of foote. it will be an interesting position to watch in preseason. my guess is we will see less snaps from farrior next season which would be the smart way to go. kind of like bruschi his last few years

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 09:29 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have
Timmons is fine where he is. He definetly wasn't our worst LB'er last year. He's young and he's only gonna get better. moving Timmons is as bad of an idea as moving Colon would be.

im not sure if colon played guard in college. i do remember timmons dominating at olb in college though. i dont think timmons was our worst LB'er i think farrior was. when timmons has filled in at olb he has done a great job so i wouldnt write it off as a bad idea. we have some serious depth at LB now with the signing of foote. it will be an interesting position to watch in preseason. my guess is we will see less snaps from farrior next season which would be the smart way to go. kind of like bruschi his last few years
the OLB in a 4-3 is much different than a OLB in a 3-4. I agree he did alright outside, and he could be really good there. but the debate was moving harrison inside to put graham there. which is a terrible idea.

frankthetank1
03-18-2010, 09:31 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have
Timmons is fine where he is. He definetly wasn't our worst LB'er last year. He's young and he's only gonna get better. moving Timmons is as bad of an idea as moving Colon would be.

im not sure if colon played guard in college. i do remember timmons dominating at olb in college though. i dont think timmons was our worst LB'er i think farrior was. when timmons has filled in at olb he has done a great job so i wouldnt write it off as a bad idea. we have some serious depth at LB now with the signing of foote. it will be an interesting position to watch in preseason. my guess is we will see less snaps from farrior next season which would be the smart way to go. kind of like bruschi his last few years
the OLB in a 4-3 is much different than a OLB in a 3-4. I agree he did alright outside, and he could be really good there. but the debate was moving harrison inside to put graham there. which is a terrible idea.

i agree i dont think it would be wise to try and move harrison inside. he is one of the best pass rushers no reason to mess with that

Flasteel
03-18-2010, 09:37 PM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd rather an ILB with Harrison inside and move Timmons to his natural position as an OLB. He was drafted to play outside; the Steelers didn't realize that Woodley was going to become a very good OLB so quickly and that Silverback was going to become a DMVP and stalwart OLB. They are simply finding a way to get Timmons' athletic ability on the field by playing him inside.

Timmons will be Silverback's replacement in 2-3 years.

Pappy

Where do you get that Timmons is a natural 3-4 OLB Pap? He played outside in a 4-3 scheme in college and 4-3 outside linebackers have roughly the same skill set as 3-4 middle linebackers. When Timmons was drafted, Colbert even talked about his ability to play inside.

We had him at OLB in his first year due to the pass rush situation, but I clearly recall being one of the guys on the board who was calling for his move inside.

I see that he's compact and explosive but he's never been an edge rusher at any point in his collegiate or pro career. In his limited time at OLB, he displayed no knack for getting to the QB or any indication he would ever get there.

I'm not sure if his problem was reading, reacting, or some combination of both, but last year he got caught up in the wash or was out of position to make the play far too often. I don't see a problem with discussing replacing Timmons inside or even having him move outside. But to suggest that he is a natural, was solely drafted to play outside, or simply finding a way to get his athleticism on the field is nothing less than erroneous and speculative.

Just sayin' :wink:

Lebsteel
03-18-2010, 09:47 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have
Timmons is fine where he is. He definetly wasn't our worst LB'er last year. He's young and he's only gonna get better. moving Timmons is as bad of an idea as moving Colon would be.

im not sure if colon played guard in college. i do remember timmons dominating at olb in college though. i dont think timmons was our worst LB'er i think farrior was. when timmons has filled in at olb he has done a great job so i wouldnt write it off as a bad idea. we have some serious depth at LB now with the signing of foote. it will be an interesting position to watch in preseason. my guess is we will see less snaps from farrior next season which would be the smart way to go. kind of like bruschi his last few years
the OLB in a 4-3 is much different than a OLB in a 3-4. I agree he did alright outside, and he could be really good there. but the debate was moving harrison inside to put graham there. which is a terrible idea.

Yea, almost as bad as being a Gator...what happened to them today? I had them beating BYU and they let me down. My brackets are totally busted already...

birtikidis
03-18-2010, 10:06 PM
eh, i don't follow gator baskbetball all that close. i really don't like bb. though i heard it was a great game.

papillon
03-18-2010, 11:06 PM
We traded down, picked up another 2nd round pick, drafted 6'2" 265 lb. Brandon Graham in Rd. 1, played him at OLB and moved James Harrison to ILB?

I'd rather an ILB with Harrison inside and move Timmons to his natural position as an OLB. He was drafted to play outside; the Steelers didn't realize that Woodley was going to become a very good OLB so quickly and that Silverback was going to become a DMVP and stalwart OLB. They are simply finding a way to get Timmons' athletic ability on the field by playing him inside.

Timmons will be Silverback's replacement in 2-3 years.

Pappy

Where do you get that Timmons is a natural 3-4 OLB Pap? He played outside in a 4-3 scheme in college and 4-3 outside linebackers have roughly the same skill set as 3-4 middle linebackers. When Timmons was drafted, Colbert even talked about his ability to play inside.

We had him at OLB in his first year due to the pass rush situation, but I clearly recall being one of the guys on the board who was calling for his move inside.

I see that he's compact and explosive but he's never been an edge rusher at any point in his collegiate or pro career. In his limited time at OLB, he displayed no knack for getting to the QB or any indication he would ever get there.

I'm not sure if his problem was reading, reacting, or some combination of both, but last year he got caught up in the wash or was out of position to make the play far too often. I don't see a problem with discussing replacing Timmons inside or even having him move outside. But to suggest that he is a natural, was solely drafted to play outside, or simply finding a way to get his athleticism on the field is nothing less than erroneous and speculative.

Just sayin' :wink:

I recall Colbert saying he could play inside and that versatility helped move him up the Steeler draft board. I believe Colbert drafted him as an OLB to replace Porter or to be groomed as such. I acknowledge that I don't know enough about the skill sets necessary to play each position, but, Timmons seems to either overrun plays or get caught up in the wash when he's inside.

He did have a pretty good year inside. Hopefully, the experience and another year of getting stronger will allow him to turn the corner and be a dominant ILB for the Steelers. I don't know where he'll end up long term, but I do like having him on the field, because, he's explosive.

Pappy

hawaiiansteel
03-18-2010, 11:33 PM
so do we have to wait until harrison is ineffective due to age to see timmons at olb? i would hate to see timmons not re-signed and see him play at a high level on another team playing outside LB. is harrison a "smart" enough player to learn to play inside? i love harrison but i wouldnt say is all that bright. he reminds me a lot of mike tyson, more in the comical way than violent. i guess its a classy problem to have
Timmons is fine where he is. He definetly wasn't our worst LB'er last year. He's young and he's only gonna get better. moving Timmons is as bad of an idea as moving Colon would be.

im not sure if colon played guard in college. i do remember timmons dominating at olb in college though. i dont think timmons was our worst LB'er i think farrior was. when timmons has filled in at olb he has done a great job so i wouldnt write it off as a bad idea. we have some serious depth at LB now with the signing of foote. it will be an interesting position to watch in preseason. my guess is we will see less snaps from farrior next season which would be the smart way to go. kind of like bruschi his last few years
the OLB in a 4-3 is much different than a OLB in a 3-4. I agree he did alright outside, and he could be really good there. but the debate was moving harrison inside to put graham there. which is a terrible idea.

Yea, almost as bad as being a Gator...what happened to them today? I had them beating BYU and they let me down. My brackets are totally busted already...


sorry it didn't go your way but that was a great game! watched it on tv, double-overtime thriller...that one BYU dude was just on fire unfortunately.

did you have the Gators going all the way? :D

Lebsteel
03-18-2010, 11:42 PM
Yea, all the way to Gainesville...it was my upset pick.....there were a lot of upsets, unfortunately I didn't pick any of the right ones! What do I know? Apparently not much. I even think Harrison could play ILB. :wink: