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Chadman
03-15-2010, 10:48 PM
If you take away his struggles in the Senior Bowl- how do you rate Mike Iupati?

Before the Senior Bowl game, he was talked about in hushed tones as a possible LT, even possibly the best OL in the draft.

But 1 game in which he gets caught holding, and now he's over rated?

Reminds Chadman of this other guy that came out of the Senior Bowl with his reputation damaged, sliding into the 2nd round...and becoming the Steelers LOLB the following season.

Remember him? LaMarr Woodley anyone?

It's absurd that people would consider Iupati as over rated baed on one game. His college career indicates he's the #1 OG in the draft, the best run blocker in the draft, and an outstanding prospect.

Lebsteel
03-15-2010, 11:10 PM
I have nothing against Iupati, I just don't want the Steelers to draft a guard in Rd. 1 when their 2nd pick from last year was a highly rated guard who has not had a chance to prove himself. Are you convinced that Urbik is a bust and will not play RG?

hawaiiansteel
03-15-2010, 11:15 PM
If you take away his struggles in the Senior Bowl- how do you rate Mike Iupati?

Before the Senior Bowl game, he was talked about in hushed tones as a possible LT, even possibly the best OL in the draft.

But 1 game in which he gets caught holding, and now he's over rated?

Reminds Chadman of this other guy that came out of the Senior Bowl with his reputation damaged, sliding into the 2nd round...and becoming the Steelers LOLB the following season.

Remember him? LaMarr Woodley anyone?

It's absurd that people would consider Iupati as over rated baed on one game. His college career indicates he's the #1 OG in the draft, the best run blocker in the draft, and an outstanding prospect.



Iupati showed very well at the Senior Bowl practices, it was only in the game that he struggled. but you have to remember, his struggles occured while he was playing RG. Iupati is much, much better playing on the left side.

Chadman
03-15-2010, 11:21 PM
I have nothing against Iupati, I just don't want the Steelers to draft a guard in Rd. 1 when their 2nd pick from last year was a highly rated guard who has not had a chance to prove himself. Are you convinced that Urbik is a bust and will not play RG?

Chadman never rated Urbik that highly. And the Combine workouts/practices last year left MUCH to be desired.

In Chadman's opinion, Urbik benefitted from being a member of a good OL, not the Wisconsin OL benefitting from Urbik being a member of it.

At most, he'll never be dominant. And the 'word' from Mr Rooney is he wants the committment placed back on running the ball. What better way to commit to running than to put together a dominant blocking OL? With Kemo & Iupati at OG, the Steelers have 2 massive maulers for Rashard to run behind.

Lebsteel
03-15-2010, 11:22 PM
If you take away his struggles in the Senior Bowl- how do you rate Mike Iupati?

Before the Senior Bowl game, he was talked about in hushed tones as a possible LT, even possibly the best OL in the draft.

But 1 game in which he gets caught holding, and now he's over rated?

Reminds Chadman of this other guy that came out of the Senior Bowl with his reputation damaged, sliding into the 2nd round...and becoming the Steelers LOLB the following season.

Remember him? LaMarr Woodley anyone?

It's absurd that people would consider Iupati as over rated baed on one game. His college career indicates he's the #1 OG in the draft, the best run blocker in the draft, and an outstanding prospect.



Iupati showed very well at the Senior Bowl practices, it was only in the game that he struggled. but you have to remember, his struggles occured while he was playing RG. Iupati is much, much better playing on the left side.
Where would he fit in as a Steeler? Kemo to RG and Iupati at LG? I think drafting any guard in Rd. 1 would be a waste. I agree we need to get back to a power running game, but do we know that Urbik is not the answer? If so, then who is responsible for taking him with our 2nd pick last year? That would be a huge waste for two consecutive years.

papillon
03-15-2010, 11:25 PM
I have nothing against Iupati, I just don't want the Steelers to draft a guard in Rd. 1 when their 2nd pick from last year was a highly rated guard who has not had a chance to prove himself. Are you convinced that Urbik is a bust and will not play RG?

Chadman never rated Urbik that highly. And the Combine workouts/practices last year left MUCH to be desired.

In Chadman's opinion, Urbik benefitted from being a member of a good OL, not the Wisconsin OL benefitting from Urbik being a member of it.

At most, he'll never be dominant. And the 'word' from Mr Rooney is he wants the committment placed back on running the ball. What better way to commit to running than to put together a dominant blocking OL? With Kemo & Iupati at OG, the Steelers have 2 massive maulers for Rashard to run behind.

I know everyone has a different opinion and that's what makes this fun; so, if the following players are available at 1.18 who do you take?

Iupati
Thomas
Spiller
the 2nd best ILB in the draft (excuse my ignorance, I have no idea who that might be)

Pappy

flippy
03-15-2010, 11:28 PM
Let's take him in the second round then ;)

Good point btw. I'm just not big on a OG @ 18.

Chadman
03-15-2010, 11:28 PM
Where would he fit in as a Steeler? Kemo to RG and Iupati at LG? I think drafting any guard in Rd. 1 would be a waste. I agree we need to get back to a power running game, If so, then who is responsible for taking him with our 2nd pick last year? That would be a huge waste for two consecutive years.

In theory, you are correct- but your argument smacks of incosistancy...

Looking at your mock, you have Kareem Jackson CB, in Round 2.

If drafting Iupati to play OG & 'giving up' on Urbik is a 'waste', then by drafting Jackson in Round 2, you waste 2 picks from last year- Keenan Lewis & Joe Burnett.


but do we know that Urbik is not the answer? - nobody knows for sure, but here's a pretty big clue- RG last year was former back-up OT Trai Essex, then when Kemo got hurt back-up Center Doug Legursky got a shot, and then undrafted former OT Ramon Foster won the position.

Where was #2 pick, and career OG Kraig Urbik? Dressed in his civvies on the sideline. Not a good indication of future dominance right there..


And as for who is responsible for drafting Urbik- you would have to envision that FORMER OL coach Larry Z had some say. The same Larry Z that overlooked an OL that gave up over 80 odd sacks in two years.

steelerkeylargo
03-15-2010, 11:29 PM
If you take away his struggles in the Senior Bowl- how do you rate Mike Iupati?

Before the Senior Bowl game, he was talked about in hushed tones as a possible LT, even possibly the best OL in the draft.

But 1 game in which he gets caught holding, and now he's over rated?

Reminds Chadman of this other guy that came out of the Senior Bowl with his reputation damaged, sliding into the 2nd round...and becoming the Steelers LOLB the following season.

Remember him? LaMarr Woodley anyone?

It's absurd that people would consider Iupati as over rated baed on one game. His college career indicates he's the #1 OG in the draft, the best run blocker in the draft, and an outstanding prospect.



Iupati showed very well at the Senior Bowl practices, it was only in the game that he struggled. but you have to remember, his struggles occured while he was playing RG. Iupati is much, much better playing on the left side.


Holding is holding. Whether its on the right side or the left.

Chadman
03-15-2010, 11:36 PM
I know everyone has a different opinion and that's what makes this fun; so, if the following players are available at 1.18 who do you take?

Iupati
Thomas
Spiller
the 2nd best ILB in the draft (excuse my ignorance, I have no idea who that might be)

Given that the depth of the Safety class means that there are good talents found through to Round 4 or so, and that the drop-off from Iupati to the next OG is far greater, Iupati would trump Thomas, particularly after the Steelers re-signed Clark & added Will Allen.

CJ Spiller is a different proposition in some ways...he is a rare talent that could dominate due to his speed. But...if the Steelers need a 'Fast Back' as the #2 RB, there are a few options in the later rounds. Also- the Steelers FO lamented the inability to convert short yardage, not 3rd & long, which indicate to Chadman that a 'Power RB' might be of greater need in the FO's eyes. Adding Iupati also improves the Steelers running game, particularly in the smash 'em up derby that is short yardage situations.

The 2nd/3rd best ILB might be a moot point now that Larry Foote, Key Fox, James Farrior & Lawrence Timmons are on board. There's only so many spots! OLB however...

Chadman
03-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Let's take him in the second round then ;)

Good point btw. I'm just not big on a OG @ 18.

To be honest- neither is Chadman. OG is kinda boring. And PLAYMAKERS on Defense are needed. It's just that, when you put value boards together, the drop off from the #1 OG to the #2 OG is greater than the drop off of the other 'positions of need' for the Steelers- CB, FS, DE......with perhaps the exception of NT.

flippy
03-16-2010, 12:01 AM
Let's take him in the second round then ;)

Good point btw. I'm just not big on a OG @ 18.

To be honest- neither is Chadman. OG is kinda boring. And PLAYMAKERS on Defense are needed. It's just that, when you put value boards together, the drop off from the #1 OG to the #2 OG is greater than the drop off of the other 'positions of need' for the Steelers- CB, FS, DE......with perhaps the exception of NT.

I see the logic. I also see the logic that an OG could play/contribute right away.

I'm also curious what the Steelers think about Colon long term. Even Starks who I think there's some mixed feelings on. Should we be thinking about the tackle position more than guard? Plus we have a new coach and who knows how our guys fit with his philosophy.

I'm thinking there's so many difference makers on Defense that will be available and hard to pass up.

Lebsteel
03-16-2010, 08:42 AM
[quote]Where would he fit in as a Steeler? Kemo to RG and Iupati at LG? I think drafting any guard in Rd. 1 would be a waste. I agree we need to get back to a power running game, If so, then who is responsible for taking him with our 2nd pick last year? That would be a huge waste for two consecutive years.

In theory, you are correct- but your argument smacks of incosistancy...

Looking at your mock, you have Kareem Jackson CB, in Round 2.

If drafting Iupati to play OG & 'giving up' on Urbik is a 'waste', then by drafting Jackson in Round 2, you waste 2 picks from last year- Keenan Lewis & Joe Burnett.


but do we know that Urbik is not the answer? - nobody knows for sure, but here's a pretty big clue- RG last year was former back-up OT Trai Essex, then when Kemo got hurt back-up Center Doug Legursky got a shot, and then undrafted former OT Ramon Foster won the position.

Where was #2 pick, and career OG Kraig Urbik? Dressed in his civvies on the sideline. Not a good indication of future dominance right there..


And as for who is responsible for drafting Urbik- you would have to envision that FORMER OL coach Larry Z had some say. The same Larry Z that overlooked an OL that gave up over 80 odd sacks in two years.[/quote:1y9vmu2a]
Smacks of insconsistency? Lewis was our 4th pick (a very low 3rd round comp pick) and Burnett was a 5th rounder. Urbik was our 2nd pick. Big difference. We are losing Townsend (most likely) plus you have have the nickel package where a 3rd CB is needed, i.e. you have a lot more room for CBs than you do a RG. We don't have a huge need for a guard and it seems like a waste when we have glaring needs on our defense, granted not as big as it was since we signed Clark, Hampton, and Foote. If we have to go offense, I'd much rather take an offensive threat like Spiller at RB, where we do have a need, than at OG, where it is not as apparent, at least to me.

papillon
03-16-2010, 09:18 AM
I know everyone has a different opinion and that's what makes this fun; so, if the following players are available at 1.18 who do you take?

Iupati
Thomas
Spiller
the 2nd best ILB in the draft (excuse my ignorance, I have no idea who that might be)

Given that the depth of the Safety class means that there are good talents found through to Round 4 or so, and that the drop-off from Iupati to the next OG is far greater, Iupati would trump Thomas, particularly after the Steelers re-signed Clark & added Will Allen.

CJ Spiller is a different proposition in some ways...he is a rare talent that could dominate due to his speed. But...if the Steelers need a 'Fast Back' as the #2 RB, there are a few options in the later rounds. Also- the Steelers FO lamented the inability to convert short yardage, not 3rd & long, which indicate to Chadman that a 'Power RB' might be of greater need in the FO's eyes. Adding Iupati also improves the Steelers running game, particularly in the smash 'em up derby that is short yardage situations.

The 2nd/3rd best ILB might be a moot point now that Larry Foote, Key Fox, James Farrior & Lawrence Timmons are on board. There's only so many spots! OLB however...

Is Iupati rated as highly as Alan Faneca was when we drafted him in the first? If not, I don't see the Steelers taking a guard in the first round. I just don't see an OG being a 1st round selection particularly since they took Urbik in the 2nd last year.

Spiller would probably be the choice if he's available I just don't see them passing on the value if he's there (I'm hoping he's off the board by the time we pick...c'mon Al Davis).

I certainly wouldn't eliminate the 2nd best (or, potentially the best) ILB in the draft because they signed Foote and have Fox and Farrior. Fox hasn't proven to be a starter that's how we picked him up, Farrior and Foote only have a year or two left and that's questionable. I like ILB at this spot if one they really like is available.

Thomas, still brings the best value and versatility that the Steelers covet. If he's there it would be surprising if they passed on him, IMO.

Pappy

Lebsteel
03-16-2010, 09:34 AM
I have nothing against Iupati, I just don't want the Steelers to draft a guard in Rd. 1 when their 2nd pick from last year was a highly rated guard who has not had a chance to prove himself. Are you convinced that Urbik is a bust and will not play RG?

Chadman never rated Urbik that highly. And the Combine workouts/practices last year left MUCH to be desired.

In Chadman's opinion, Urbik benefitted from being a member of a good OL, not the Wisconsin OL benefitting from Urbik being a member of it.

At most, he'll never be dominant. And the 'word' from Mr Rooney is he wants the committment placed back on running the ball. What better way to commit to running than to put together a dominant blocking OL? With Kemo & Iupati at OG, the Steelers have 2 massive maulers for Rashard to run behind.

I know everyone has a different opinion and that's what makes this fun; so, if the following players are available at 1.18 who do you take?

Iupati
Thomas
Spiller
the 2nd best ILB in the draft (excuse my ignorance, I have no idea who that might be)

Pappy
Oh, just for info, Pappy, the 2nd rated ILB in the draft is Brandon Spikes 6'3 249 lbs. from Florida.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_ILB

In Chadman's scenario, I would go:
Thomas, Spiller, trade down... :wink:

Chadman
03-16-2010, 09:50 AM
Just so we argue apples for apples- Urbik was the 15th pick of the 3rd round last year, 17 picks ahead of Keenan Lewis.

To put how 'high' Urbik was drafted into perspective, and how much we can 'expect' Urbik to contribute- the 15th pick of the 3rd round is..10 picks higher than 3rd round bust Bruce Davis from 2008, 2 picks lower than Matt Speath in 2007, 4 picks higher than Anthony Smith in 2006 & 14 picks higher than Trai Essex in 2005. So, as you can see, the track record of success of the picks from the Steelers around Urbik's selection do not give much confidence to a sparkling career.

RuthlessBurgher
03-16-2010, 09:51 AM
[quote]Where would he fit in as a Steeler? Kemo to RG and Iupati at LG? I think drafting any guard in Rd. 1 would be a waste. I agree we need to get back to a power running game, If so, then who is responsible for taking him with our 2nd pick last year? That would be a huge waste for two consecutive years.

In theory, you are correct- but your argument smacks of incosistancy...

Looking at your mock, you have Kareem Jackson CB, in Round 2.

If drafting Iupati to play OG & 'giving up' on Urbik is a 'waste', then by drafting Jackson in Round 2, you waste 2 picks from last year- Keenan Lewis & Joe Burnett.


but do we know that Urbik is not the answer? - nobody knows for sure, but here's a pretty big clue- RG last year was former back-up OT Trai Essex, then when Kemo got hurt back-up Center Doug Legursky got a shot, and then undrafted former OT Ramon Foster won the position.

Where was #2 pick, and career OG Kraig Urbik? Dressed in his civvies on the sideline. Not a good indication of future dominance right there..


And as for who is responsible for drafting Urbik- you would have to envision that FORMER OL coach Larry Z had some say. The same Larry Z that overlooked an OL that gave up over 80 odd sacks in two years.
Smacks of insconsistency? Lewis was our 4th pick (a very low 3rd round comp pick) and Burnett was a 5th rounder. Urbik was our 2nd pick. Big difference. We are losing Townsend (most likely) plus you have have the nickel package where a 3rd CB is needed, i.e. you have a lot more room for CBs than you do a RG. We don't have a huge need for a guard and it seems like a waste when we have glaring needs on our defense, granted not as big as it was since we signed Clark, Hampton, and Foote. If we have to go offense, I'd much rather take an offensive threat like Spiller at RB, where we do have a need, than at OG, where it is not as apparent, at least to me.[/quote:2oysz0i1]

Urbik and Lewis were both 3rd round picks, though (Urbik 79th overall and Lewis 96th overall). Also, we didn't use a comp pick for Lewis...it was our regular 3rd round pick (which just happened to be the last pick of the round since we had just won the Super Bowl). Everyone thought that we would get a 3rd round comp pick for Faneca, but it ended up being a 5th round comp pick instead (used to take Frank Summers) because of that obscure 10 year rule.

Lebsteel
03-16-2010, 09:56 AM
[quote]Where would he fit in as a Steeler? Kemo to RG and Iupati at LG? I think drafting any guard in Rd. 1 would be a waste. I agree we need to get back to a power running game, If so, then who is responsible for taking him with our 2nd pick last year? That would be a huge waste for two consecutive years.

In theory, you are correct- but your argument smacks of incosistancy...

Looking at your mock, you have Kareem Jackson CB, in Round 2.

If drafting Iupati to play OG & 'giving up' on Urbik is a 'waste', then by drafting Jackson in Round 2, you waste 2 picks from last year- Keenan Lewis & Joe Burnett.


but do we know that Urbik is not the answer? - nobody knows for sure, but here's a pretty big clue- RG last year was former back-up OT Trai Essex, then when Kemo got hurt back-up Center Doug Legursky got a shot, and then undrafted former OT Ramon Foster won the position.

Where was #2 pick, and career OG Kraig Urbik? Dressed in his civvies on the sideline. Not a good indication of future dominance right there..


And as for who is responsible for drafting Urbik- you would have to envision that FORMER OL coach Larry Z had some say. The same Larry Z that overlooked an OL that gave up over 80 odd sacks in two years.
Smacks of insconsistency? Lewis was our 4th pick (a very low 3rd round comp pick) and Burnett was a 5th rounder. Urbik was our 2nd pick. Big difference. We are losing Townsend (most likely) plus you have have the nickel package where a 3rd CB is needed, i.e. you have a lot more room for CBs than you do a RG. We don't have a huge need for a guard and it seems like a waste when we have glaring needs on our defense, granted not as big as it was since we signed Clark, Hampton, and Foote. If we have to go offense, I'd much rather take an offensive threat like Spiller at RB, where we do have a need, than at OG, where it is not as apparent, at least to me.

Urbik and Lewis were both 3rd round picks, though (Urbik 79th overall and Lewis 96th overall). Also, we didn't use a comp pick for Lewis...it was our regular 3rd round pick (which just happened to be the last pick of the round since we had just won the Super Bowl). Everyone thought that we would get a 3rd round comp pick for Faneca, but it ended up being a 5th round comp pick instead (used to take Frank Summers) because of that obscure 10 year rule.[/quote:2h9cm2sy]
RB, thanks for the correction. The Wallace pick was the result of the 2nd round trade down, right?

Slapstick
03-16-2010, 10:01 AM
If either a worthy OT prospect or a worthy CB prospect are available at #18, that is the way I would go...

Chadman
03-16-2010, 10:02 AM
Is Iupati rated as highly as Alan Faneca was when we drafted him in the first? If not, I don't see the Steelers taking a guard in the first round. I just don't see an OG being a 1st round selection particularly since they took Urbik in the 2nd last year.

Spiller would probably be the choice if he's available I just don't see them passing on the value if he's there (I'm hoping he's off the board by the time we pick...c'mon Al Davis).

I certainly wouldn't eliminate the 2nd best (or, potentially the best) ILB in the draft because they signed Foote and have Fox and Farrior. Fox hasn't proven to be a starter that's how we picked him up, Farrior and Foote only have a year or two left and that's questionable. I like ILB at this spot if one they really like is available.

Thomas, still brings the best value and versatility that the Steelers covet. If he's there it would be surprising if they passed on him, IMO.

Pappy

Not sure exactly of your point regarding Faneca. Are you suggesting the Steelers won't take an OG in the 1st round unless he is Faneca's quality? Because if you are- two words to disprove that theory- Kendall Simmons.

As for Urbik- remember that this is the same guy that was surpassed by undrafted Center Doug Legursky, and then by undrafted OT Ramon Foster for the job to replace the injured Kemo last year. Ok, understandable that the 'more experienced' Legursky could win the job- but the undrafted OT from the same draft class as Urbik moves ahead on the depth chart too? Not a good sign.

Spiller does not fill the role of the short yardage runner that Tomlin alluded to not having on the roster last year. There is a greater chance that Blount will be looked at to fill that role. No doubt Spiller is a great talent- just not what the Steelers need. Besides, doubt he's available at #18.

As for ILB- you think the Steelers will go into the season with 5 ILB's on the roster?

Lebsteel
03-16-2010, 10:03 AM
Just so we argue apples for apples- Urbik was the 15th pick of the 3rd round last year, 17 picks ahead of Keenan Lewis.

To put how 'high' Urbik was drafted into perspective, and how much we can 'expect' Urbik to contribute- the 15th pick of the 3rd round is..10 picks higher than 3rd round bust Bruce Davis from 2008, 2 picks lower than Matt Speath in 2007, 4 picks higher than Anthony Smith in 2006 & 14 picks higher than Trai Essex in 2005. So, as you can see, the track record of success of the picks from the Steelers around Urbik's selection do not give much confidence to a sparkling career.
Yes, very bad track record. That doesn't automatically make Urbik a worthless pick, obviously, but I'd like to see him be given a chance to earn his roster spot. If he doesn't then we need to have him go the way of Davis and Smith. The Steelers thought highly enough of Urbik to make him our 2nd pick, so my expectations are much higher for him than they are for Lewis, our 4th pick, but I still would like to see Lewis be a significant contributor at CB or FS. I think we all want that, of course.

RuthlessBurgher
03-16-2010, 10:09 AM
The Wallace pick was the result of the 2nd round trade down, right?

We traded the last pick in the 2nd round and the last pick in the 4th round to Denver for the Broncos' two picks in the 3rd round (used to take Kraig Urbik at #79 and Mike Wallace at #84). For what it's worth, Denver took TE Richard Quinn and OG Seth Olsen with the picks that were originally ours.

steelblood
03-16-2010, 10:16 AM
Iupati is a great athlete for a guard and may even be able to play RT. He is very strong and tough and runs well with good balance. He needs to refine his technique and I think he'll end up an all-pro LG or a decent RG or RT. I would not be upset if we drafted him at #18, but he is not my first choice. He is still learning English and had a poor Wonderlic score. This means that it may take him time to refine his technique and to digest an NFL playbook. He would likely be a penalty/mistake machine if asked to start immediately.

Chadman
03-16-2010, 10:25 AM
Yes, very bad track record. That doesn't automatically make Urbik a worthless pick, obviously, but I'd like to see him be given a chance to earn his roster spot. If he doesn't then we need to have him go the way of Davis and Smith. The Steelers thought highly enough of Urbik to make him our 2nd pick, so my expectations are much higher for him than they are for Lewis, our 4th pick, but I still would like to see Lewis be a significant contributor at CB or FS. I think we all want that, of course.

Agreed, but as pointed out earlier, Urbik was overtaken on the depth chart by first Trai Essex to replace Stapleton after Stapleton went down, then both undrafted Doug Legursky & undrafted Ramon Foster surplanted Urbik on the depth chart when Kemo went down.

Here's something to think about- seeing as how the Steelers let Stapleton go are they:
a. Satisfied with Trai Essex's play at RG? (please no..)
b. Going to give Foster the RG job? (Risky..)
c. Doug Legursky? (no evidence that he can hold the position)
d. Unleash the untested Urbik over all three above options?


Remember- the Steelers have given over 80 sacks in two seasons, and now Coach Tomlin has publicly lamented being unable to run consistantly (hence the now famous 3rd & short sack from last season) as well as Mr Rooney publicly stating a desire to improve the running game.

pfelix73
03-16-2010, 10:31 AM
So, let me get this straight- some of you think that Iupati- a rookie is better than Essex a veteran- at RG?

Essex has found his niche at RG. young and on the move. Kemo is a beast at LG ans has become very good at pulling to the right. It's one of thier favorite running plays to the right.

Let's focus on some real need- the secondary in round 1.
:tt1

Oviedo
03-16-2010, 10:59 AM
So, let me get this straight- some of you think that Iupati- a rookie is better than Essex a veteran- at RG?

Essex has found his niche at RG. young and on the move. Kemo is a beast at LG ans has become very good at pulling to the right. It's one of thier favorite running plays to the right.

Let's focus on some real need- the secondary in round 1.
:tt1

Don't you know yet that all these college kids are better than most of the playerds we have and the "experts" have already determined that coming in out of college they are better Pros than the Pros. That is however until week #3 of the season where most will be declared busts or reflective of the terrible talent assessment abilities of the coaching staff and front office because they don't have an early invite to the Pro Bowl.

The reality is very few to no rookies will be able to come in and challenge any of our starters. That includes anyone we draft for the secondary. We are not the Detroit Lions or the Cleveland Browns.

Chadman
03-16-2010, 06:14 PM
So, let me get this straight- some of you think that Iupati- a rookie is better than Essex a veteran- at RG?

Essex has found his niche at RG. young and on the move. Kemo is a beast at LG ans has become very good at pulling to the right. It's one of thier favorite running plays to the right.

Let's focus on some real need- the secondary in round 1.
:tt1

To answer your first question- yes, Chadman does believe Iupati is better than Trai Essex. Right now. That's not saying Iupati is perfect, but Essex hardly found the 'niche' you refer to- after all, the Steelers couldn't find it in their hearts to trust the OL to come up with enough push on 3rd & short to allow Mendenhall an attempt to convert- that's how much they thought of the OL blocking last season. To simply say that rookie's won't start is naive- just an example of OL rookies- Kendall Simmmons, Alan Faneca, Willie Colon, Trai Essex, Max Starks, Darnell Stapleton, Ramon Foster- all these guys contributed, or started, in their rookie seasons.

And now we have Coach Kugler- who started not one, but 2 rookie OG's at Buffalo last year.

So yeah, here's betting Iupati is rated higher than Essex.

Lebsteel
03-16-2010, 07:24 PM
So, let me get this straight- some of you think that Iupati- a rookie is better than Essex a veteran- at RG?

Essex has found his niche at RG. young and on the move. Kemo is a beast at LG ans has become very good at pulling to the right. It's one of thier favorite running plays to the right.

Let's focus on some real need- the secondary in round 1.
:tt1

To answer your first question- yes, Chadman does believe Iupati is better than Trai Essex. Right now. That's not saying Iupati is perfect, but Essex hardly found the 'niche' you refer to- after all, the Steelers couldn't find it in their hearts to trust the OL to come up with enough push on 3rd & short to allow Mendenhall an attempt to convert- that's how much they thought of the OL blocking last season. To simply say that rookie's won't start is naive- just an example of OL rookies- Kendall Simmmons, Alan Faneca, Willie Colon, Trai Essex, Max Starks, Darnell Stapleton, Ramon Foster- all these guys contributed, or started, in their rookie seasons.

And now we have Coach Kugler- who started not one, but 2 rookie OG's at Buffalo last year.

So yeah, here's betting Iupati is rated higher than Essex.

Chadman, I disagree with you on the Rd. 1 pick, but I just noticed we agree on Round 2 and 3! What do you see in Sean Lee that makes you think he will be a good Steeler ILB? I know what I see, but I haven't heard too many others picking Lee, so I'm just curious on your thoughts.

Chadman
03-16-2010, 10:30 PM
So, let me get this straight- some of you think that Iupati- a rookie is better than Essex a veteran- at RG?

Essex has found his niche at RG. young and on the move. Kemo is a beast at LG ans has become very good at pulling to the right. It's one of thier favorite running plays to the right.

Let's focus on some real need- the secondary in round 1.
:tt1

To answer your first question- yes, Chadman does believe Iupati is better than Trai Essex. Right now. That's not saying Iupati is perfect, but Essex hardly found the 'niche' you refer to- after all, the Steelers couldn't find it in their hearts to trust the OL to come up with enough push on 3rd & short to allow Mendenhall an attempt to convert- that's how much they thought of the OL blocking last season. To simply say that rookie's won't start is naive- just an example of OL rookies- Kendall Simmmons, Alan Faneca, Willie Colon, Trai Essex, Max Starks, Darnell Stapleton, Ramon Foster- all these guys contributed, or started, in their rookie seasons.

And now we have Coach Kugler- who started not one, but 2 rookie OG's at Buffalo last year.

So yeah, here's betting Iupati is rated higher than Essex.

Chadman, I disagree with you on the Rd. 1 pick, but I just noticed we agree on Round 2 and 3! What do you see in Sean Lee that makes you think he will be a good Steeler ILB? I know what I see, but I haven't heard too many others picking Lee, so I'm just curious on your thoughts.

Chadman had Sean Lee as the replacement for Farrior- a smart, on field leader type. But with Foote being re-signed, this is going to change. Highly doubt we see 5 ILB's on the playing roster- Steelers might add OLB there instead...

Chadman
03-16-2010, 10:31 PM
Chadman, I disagree with you on the Rd. 1 pick

Don't worry Leb, you can't be right every time... :D

RuthlessBurgher
03-16-2010, 10:36 PM
So, let me get this straight- some of you think that Iupati- a rookie is better than Essex a veteran- at RG?

Essex has found his niche at RG. young and on the move. Kemo is a beast at LG ans has become very good at pulling to the right. It's one of thier favorite running plays to the right.

Let's focus on some real need- the secondary in round 1.
:tt1

To answer your first question- yes, Chadman does believe Iupati is better than Trai Essex. Right now. That's not saying Iupati is perfect, but Essex hardly found the 'niche' you refer to- after all, the Steelers couldn't find it in their hearts to trust the OL to come up with enough push on 3rd & short to allow Mendenhall an attempt to convert- that's how much they thought of the OL blocking last season. To simply say that rookie's won't start is naive- just an example of OL rookies- Kendall Simmmons, Alan Faneca, Willie Colon, Trai Essex, Max Starks, Darnell Stapleton, Ramon Foster- all these guys contributed, or started, in their rookie seasons.

And now we have Coach Kugler- who started not one, but 2 rookie OG's at Buffalo last year.

So yeah, here's betting Iupati is rated higher than Essex.

Chadman, I disagree with you on the Rd. 1 pick, but I just noticed we agree on Round 2 and 3! What do you see in Sean Lee that makes you think he will be a good Steeler ILB? I know what I see, but I haven't heard too many others picking Lee, so I'm just curious on your thoughts.

Chadman had Sean Lee as the replacement for Farrior- a smart, on field leader type. But with Foote being re-signed, this is going to change. Highly doubt we see 5 ILB's on the playing roster- Steelers might add OLB there instead...

That's what I was thinking too. I was just mentioning to our Asian brother that I may switch Spikes to Jerry Hughes in my mock now that Foote gives us 4 ILB's. If Harrison or Woodley go down, our only choice is to move Timmons outside, since I don't see Frazier or Bailey starting any time soon. I may even keep the Adrian Tracy pick later and go with 2 OLB instead of 1 ILB and 1 OLB (you could do the same with Schofield).

Chadman
03-16-2010, 10:40 PM
So, let me get this straight- some of you think that Iupati- a rookie is better than Essex a veteran- at RG?

Essex has found his niche at RG. young and on the move. Kemo is a beast at LG ans has become very good at pulling to the right. It's one of thier favorite running plays to the right.

Let's focus on some real need- the secondary in round 1.
:tt1

To answer your first question- yes, Chadman does believe Iupati is better than Trai Essex. Right now. That's not saying Iupati is perfect, but Essex hardly found the 'niche' you refer to- after all, the Steelers couldn't find it in their hearts to trust the OL to come up with enough push on 3rd & short to allow Mendenhall an attempt to convert- that's how much they thought of the OL blocking last season. To simply say that rookie's won't start is naive- just an example of OL rookies- Kendall Simmmons, Alan Faneca, Willie Colon, Trai Essex, Max Starks, Darnell Stapleton, Ramon Foster- all these guys contributed, or started, in their rookie seasons.

And now we have Coach Kugler- who started not one, but 2 rookie OG's at Buffalo last year.

So yeah, here's betting Iupati is rated higher than Essex.

Chadman, I disagree with you on the Rd. 1 pick, but I just noticed we agree on Round 2 and 3! What do you see in Sean Lee that makes you think he will be a good Steeler ILB? I know what I see, but I haven't heard too many others picking Lee, so I'm just curious on your thoughts.

Chadman had Sean Lee as the replacement for Farrior- a smart, on field leader type. But with Foote being re-signed, this is going to change. Highly doubt we see 5 ILB's on the playing roster- Steelers might add OLB there instead...

That's what I was thinking too. I was just mentioning to our Asian brother that I may switch Spikes to Jerry Hughes in my mock now that Foote gives us 4 ILB's. If Harrison or Woodley go down, our only choice is to move Timmons outside, since I don't see Frazier or Bailey starting any time soon. I may even keep the Adrian Tracy pick later and go with 2 OLB instead of 1 ILB and 1 OLB (you could do the same with Schofield).


Watching clips of him, Chadman would be VERY curious if the Steelers brought in Navorro Bowman...

RuthlessBurgher
03-16-2010, 10:55 PM
To answer your first question- yes, Chadman does believe Iupati is better than Trai Essex. Right now. That's not saying Iupati is perfect, but Essex hardly found the 'niche' you refer to- after all, the Steelers couldn't find it in their hearts to trust the OL to come up with enough push on 3rd & short to allow Mendenhall an attempt to convert- that's how much they thought of the OL blocking last season. To simply say that rookie's won't start is naive- just an example of OL rookies- Kendall Simmmons, Alan Faneca, Willie Colon, Trai Essex, Max Starks, Darnell Stapleton, Ramon Foster- all these guys contributed, or started, in their rookie seasons.

And now we have Coach Kugler- who started not one, but 2 rookie OG's at Buffalo last year.

So yeah, here's betting Iupati is rated higher than Essex.

Chadman, I disagree with you on the Rd. 1 pick, but I just noticed we agree on Round 2 and 3! What do you see in Sean Lee that makes you think he will be a good Steeler ILB? I know what I see, but I haven't heard too many others picking Lee, so I'm just curious on your thoughts.

Chadman had Sean Lee as the replacement for Farrior- a smart, on field leader type. But with Foote being re-signed, this is going to change. Highly doubt we see 5 ILB's on the playing roster- Steelers might add OLB there instead...

That's what I was thinking too. I was just mentioning to our Asian brother that I may switch Spikes to Jerry Hughes in my mock now that Foote gives us 4 ILB's. If Harrison or Woodley go down, our only choice is to move Timmons outside, since I don't see Frazier or Bailey starting any time soon. I may even keep the Adrian Tracy pick later and go with 2 OLB instead of 1 ILB and 1 OLB (you could do the same with Schofield).


Watching clips of him, Chadman would be VERY curious if the Steelers brought in Navorro Bowman...

No thanks. His off-the-field issues virtually eliminates him from consideration after all that this team has gone through lately. Besides, he's more of a 4-3 OLB than a 3-4 OLB anyway.

Lebsteel
03-16-2010, 11:50 PM
Despite being a homer, I totally agree. No to Bowman. However, I think he would make a great Bungal.