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Jom112
03-15-2010, 03:25 PM
One of the biggest misconceptions that emerges from the NFL Combine each year is the importance of 40-yard dash times. The 40 is the considered the glamour event of the combine, and every year NFL executives, scouts, draftniks and fans (including me) get carried away by some of the mind-boggling times. This often puts too much value on a player’s straight-line speed, more so than on his pure football talent.

Am I saying that the workouts at the combine aren’t important? No, but some of the workouts need/should be evaluated from a more football-related standpoint.

One of the most important and consistently overlooked measurements at the combine is the first 10 yards of the 40, known as the 10-yard split. This is simply a measurement to see how fast a prospect can cover the first 10 yards of their 40. It’s great to see how fast someone can run 40 yards, but how often in an NFL game are players required to cover that distance on one play? A more reasonable measurement, and a better indicator of “football speed,” is 10 yards.

A 10-yard split not only measures the short-area burst of an NFL prospect and but also allows evaluators to determine if the prospect is a two-stepper (a player who can get up to full speed in two steps) or a strider (a player who needs to hit full stride to reach his top speed). Since football players as a whole are consistently forced to quickly explode in and out of their breaks throughout the game and change directions, short-area explosion (typically within 10 yards) is a pivotal reflection of a player’s overall “football speed.”

The 10-yard split is a vital time gauge for every position in the NFL, but it’s arguably more important for edge pass rushers than at any other spot. Pure pass rushing specialists who rely on their first step to gain an advantage on offensive tackles need to display explosive first-step quickness out of the stance. So the timing of a pass rusher’s 10-yard split is an excellent indicator of how quickly he can explode off the ball and cover the ground needed to get after the quarterback. To put this into perspective, I broke down some of this year’s top hybrid defensive end/outside linebackers to give you an idea which prospects’ 10-yard split times are NFL-worthy and which prospects’ fast 40 times are simply a mirage.

I constructed a range of times from past drafts using only the DE/OLB position. Note: NFL Combine times as a whole have gone down dramatically each of the past couple of years, so the most times that are being used are only from the past five years.

Cliff AvrilAPFormer Purdue Boilermaker and current Detroit Lion Cliff Avril.

A “Great” 10-Yard Split Time (1.55 seconds and under)

Cliff Avril, Lions: 1.50 (2008)
Chris Long, Rams: 1.53 (2008)

A “Good” 10-Yard Split Time (1.56-1.59)

Gaines Adams, Buccaneers: 1.58 (2007)
Derrick Harvey, Jaguars: 1.59 (2008)

An “Average” 10-Yard Split Time (1.60-1.62)

Kamerion Wimbley, Raiders: 1.60 (2006)
Bruce Davis, Patriots: 1.62 (2008)

A “Below Average” 10-Yard Split Times (1.63-1.69)

Charles Johnson, Panthers: 1.63 (2007)
Anthony Spencer, Cowboys: 1.64 (2007)

With an eye toward the 2010 draft class, let’s break down the nation’s top pass rushing DE/OLB hybrids according to their 10-yard split times and assess what each time means in terms of their NFL potential.

Jason Worilds, Virginia Tech (6-1¼, 254) (10-yard split: 1.58 seconds)

For a guy who relies on his initial get-off and first step as much as Worilds, it’s no surprise that he leads this group of pass rushing prospects with the combine’s top 10-yard split. Worilds has the uncanny ability to not only uncoil cleanly out of his stance and explode off the ball, he also has very little wasted motion off the line, which enables him to maximize his first step. He’s a guy who has the ability to consistently threaten the edge at the next level because of his first step, and his impressive 10-yard split time is a direct indicator of that.

Jerry HughesAPTCU's Jerry Hughes

Jerry Hughes, TCU (6-1¾, 255) (1.59 seconds)

Not only does Hughes have the type of initial burst out of his stance to reach the corner, but combine that with his lateral quickness and body control when flattening out around the edge and you have one of, if not the most well-rounded pass rusher in this year’s draft. Hughes can win his one-on-one battles with pure explosion and consistently gets on top of offensive tackles quickly, which is directly indicative of his 10-yard split. But what makes him so tough to block on the edge is his ability to counter off his speed rush, cleanly change directions and consistently keep opposing linemen on their heels and guessing on his pass rush.

Ricky Sapp, Clemson (6-3 7/8, 252) (1.59 seconds)

As I’ve said before and will say again, it’s never been a question of physical ability for Sapp, who when healthy is good enough to be among the elite in this year’s draft class. He’s long, explosive, can rush off the edge and has the type of power and body control to consistently beat blocks on contact. His impressive get-off burst for his size gives him the ability to routinely gain the initial advantage off the snap. The only question I have: Can his knee hold up long enough for him to develop into an impact-caliber rusher in the NFL?

Brandon GrahamAPMichigan's Brandon Graham

Brandon Graham, Michigan (6-1 3/8, 268) (1.61 seconds)

You can see on tape when watching Graham that he isn’t the most explosive pass rusher out of his stance and he isn’t a guy who will simply fly around the corner untouched at the next level. So the idea that he isn’t one of the top 10-yard split guys isn’t a real concern to me. So much of Graham’s game relies on his lateral quickness, leverage and power. He does as good a job defeating blocks on contact as any pass rusher in the country, showcasing the ability to routinely fight his way through linemen once he gains a step. In terms of the NFL, I think Graham’s first step is good enough to keep opposing tackles honest, but he’s going to win most of his battles off the edge because of his suddenness and ability to slip blocks at the point, more so than his pure get-off speed.

Sergio Kindle, Texas (6-2 7/8, 250) (1.65 seconds)

Kindle is the one guy in this group I really worry about at the next level. There’s no denying he’s a powerful athlete who has the range and speed to track the football once he gets going. However, every time I watch him on tape I always come away thinking he isn’t the most balanced of athletes when asked to change directions and is someone who needs to win with his first step in the NFL. After seeing his unimpressive 10-yard split time, where some scouts had him as high as 1.70 seconds, I’m starting to wonder if he can consistently win with his first step off the edge or if he’s just a guy who will be able to make plays in pursuit.

Summing up

Overall, the 10-yard split is another tool used to help talent evaluators determine the caliber of a prospect they’re critiquing. I would not consider the 10-yard split to be the end all of evaluations for pass rushers because there are always exceptions and other variables that go into the scouting process. However, what I’m saying is that when scouting pass rushers, it’s critical to put more weight on a prospect’s 10-yard split than his more attractive 40-yard time.


http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Beh ... split.html (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Behind-the-times-the-10yard-split.html)


Figured I would post it since it mentions Bruce Davis... :lol:

steelblood
03-16-2010, 05:19 PM
Interesting. I'd like to see the splits for all the DE, OLBs this season.

Jom112
03-17-2010, 01:52 PM
Interesting. I'd like to see the splits for all the DE, OLBs this season.

So would I, especially Everson Griffen. He's moved up to #3 on my draft board for who I want the Bengals to draft at #21.

#1 and #2 are Brandon Graham and Earl Thomas, but both of them will probably be gone by the time we draft. So Griffen is the realistic choice.

What do you think of him?

Jom112
03-18-2010, 11:03 AM
I was able to find some numbers for you SB:



For guys < 220, <6.8 is real good, >7.2 is not so good
For guys 220-260, <7.0 is real good, >7.4 is not so good
For guys 260-280, <7.3 is real good, >7.6 is not so good
For guys >280, <7.6 is real good, >8.0 is not so good

Safeties:
Chad Jones (221lbs) - 6.83 3cone, 1.61 10 yd
Reshad Jones (214lbs) - 7.43 3cone, 1.56 10 yd
Larry Asante (212lbs) - 7.00 3cone, 1.60 10 yd
Myron Rolle (215lbs) - 6.94 3cone, 1.61 10 yd
Harry Coleman (211lbs) - 7.24 3cone, 1.59 10 yd
Barry Church (222lbs) - 6.65 3cone, 1.60 10 yd
Cody Grimm (203lbs) - 6.58 3cone, 1.53 10 yd
Justin Woodall (223lbs) - 6.88 3cone, 1.61 10 yd
Kyle McCarthy (205lbs) - 6.74 3cone, 1.57 10 yd
Stevie Brown (211lbs) - I believe he ran a 6.61 ish?? From the other thread.
Lucien Antoine(215lbs) - 7.38 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Eric Berry (211lbs) - 6.80 3cone, 1.54 10yd
Taylor Mays (230lbs) - no 3cone, 1.45 10yd
Major Wright (206lbs) - 6.95 3cone, 1.53 10 yd
Robert Johnson (203lbs) - 6.56 3cone, 1.56 10 yd
Terrell Skinner (214lbs) - 7.18 3cone, 1.57 10yd

OLB:
Jason Pierre-Paul (270lbs) - 7.18 3cone, 1.65 10yd
Jerry Hughes (255lbs) - 6.99 3cone, 1.63 10 yd
Lindsey Witten (250lbs) - 7.32 3cone, 1.59 10 yd
Kevin Basped (258lbs) - 7.54 3cone, 1.67 10yd
George Selvie (252lbs) - 7.48 3cone, 1.67 10yd
Willie Young (251lbs) - 7.24 3cone, 1.70 10yd
Rahim Alem (251lbs) - 7.54 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Daniel Te'O-Nesheim (263lbs) - 6.91 3cone, 1.61 10yd
Jammie Kirlew (260lbs) - 7.50 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Greg Middleton (268lbs) - 7.65 3cone, 1.71 10yd
Sergio Kindle (250lbs) - 7.26 3cone, 1.65 10yd
Ricky Sapp (252lbs) - 7.29 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Koa Misi (251lbs) - 7.07 3cone, 1.64 10yd
Eric Norwood (245lbs) - 7.08 3cone, 1.58 10yd
Thaddeus Gibson (243lbs) - 6.84 3cone, 1.64 10yd
Jason Worilds (254lbs) - 6.95 3cone, 1.56 10yd
Dekoda Watson (140lbs) - 7.06 3cone, 1.53 10yd
AJ Edds (246lbs) - 7.19 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Adrian Tracy (248lbs) - 7.08 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Cameron Sheffield (257lbs) - 7.23 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Junior Galette (257lbs) - 7.04 3cone, 1.65 10yd

DE:
Carlos Dunlap (277lbs) - 7.21 3cone, 1.61 10yd
Austen Lane (276lbs) - 7.38 3cone, 1.69 10yd
Greg Hardy (281lbs) - 7.25 3cone, 1.75 10yd
Clifton Geathers (299lbs) - 7.69 3cone, 1.72 10yd
Ndamakung Suh (307lbs) - 7.21 3cone, 1.69 10yd
Gerald McCoy (295lbs) - 7.32 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Jared Odrick (304lbs) - 7.22 3cone, 1.72 10yd
Tyson Alualu (295lbs) - 7.15 3cone, 1.67 10 yd
Lamar Houston (305lbs) - 7.61 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Geno Atkins (293lbs) - 7.33 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Mike Neal (294lbs) - 7.52 3cone, 1.70 10yd
Al Woods (309lbs) - 7.45 3cone, 1.80 10yd
Vince Oghobaase (302lbs) - 7.84 3cone, 1.83 10 yd

OT:
Bryan Bulaga (314lbs) - 7.70 3cone, 1.78 10yd
Trent Williams (315lbs) - 7.64 3cone, 1.70 10yd
Anthony Davis (323lbs) - 8.17 3cone, 1.82 10yd
Bruce Campbell (314lbs) - 7.58 3cone, 1.70 10yd
Rodger Saffold (316lbs) - 7.42 3cone, 1.80 10yd
Vladimir Ducasse (332lbs) - 8.25 3cone, 1.76 10yd
Jared Veldheer (312lbs) - 7.40 3cone, 1.72 10yd
John Jerry (328lbs) - 7.93 3cone, 1.81 10yd
Selvish Capers (308lbs) - 7.68 3cone, 1.74 10 yd
Kyle Calloway (323lbs) - 7.96 3cone, 1.89 10yd
Sam Young (316lbs) - 7.73 3cone, 1.78 10yd
Tony Washington (311lbs) - 7.52 3cone, 1.75 10yd
Thomas Welch (307lbs) - 7.67 3cone, 1.78 10yd

OG:
Mike Iupati (331lbs) - 7.85 3cone, 1.84 10yd
Mike Johnson (312lbs) - 8.15 3cone, 1.87 10yd
Marshall Newhouse (319lbs) - 7.40 3cone, 1.74 10yd
Ciron Black (327lbs) - 8.52 3cone, 1.87 10yd
Brandon Carter (329lbs) - 7.82 3cone, 1.78 10yd
Shawn Lauvao (315lbs)- 7.56 3cone, 1.80 10yd

CB:
Joe Haden - 6.94 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Devin McCourtey - 6.70 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Kareem Jackson - 6.92 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Dominique Franks - 7.32 3cone, 1.49 10yd
Patrick Robinson - 6.78 3cone, 1.50 10yd
Chris Cook - 6.88 3cone, 1.49 10yd
Brandon Ghee - 6.75 3cone, 1.52 10yd
Akwasi - Owusu - 6.84 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Jerome Murphy - 6.87 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Kevin Thomas - 6.82 3cone, 1.52 10yd
Syd'Quan Thompson - 6.73 3cone
Vern Verner - 6.70 3cone, 1.55 10yd
AJ Jefferson - 6.72 3cone, 1.56 10yd
Brian Jackson - 6.76 3cone, 1.56 10yd
Trevard Lindley - 6.81 3cone, 1.55 10yd
Josh Moore - 6.73 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Crezdon Butler - 7.08 3cone, 1.54 10yd
Marshay Green - 6.66 3cone, 1.62 10yd

NT:
Terrence Cody - 8.19 3cone, 1.90 10yd
Linval Joseph - 8.12 3cone, 1.75 10yd
Jay Ross - 7.83 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Cam Thomas - 7.68 3cone, 1.73 10yd
Torrell Troup - 7.61 3cone, 1.75 10yd
Dan Williams - 7.88 3cone, 1.75 10yd

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/v ... 13#9028413 (http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=9028413#9028413)

RuthlessBurgher
03-18-2010, 01:01 PM
One of the weirdest ones I noticed there was CB Dominique Franks - 7.32 3cone, 1.49 10yd. His straight line burst is good on the basis of that 10 yard split time, but his change of direct apparently sucks on the basis of that awful 3 cone time. I think being able to change direction well is more important for an effective corner than just a pure straight line burst of speed.

Jom112
03-18-2010, 03:52 PM
One of the weirdest ones I noticed there was CB Dominique Franks - 7.32 3cone, 1.49 10yd. His straight line burst is good on the basis of that 10 yard split time, but his change of direct apparently sucks on the basis of that awful 3 cone time. I think being able to change direction well is more important for an effective corner than just a pure straight line burst of speed.

That is pretty bad for a CB. Wasn't a big fan of his to begin with though.

Also I added the NT's to the list. Of course Mt. Cody didn't fare so well...

steelblood
03-19-2010, 08:39 AM
Interesting. I'd like to see the splits for all the DE, OLBs this season.

So would I, especially Everson Griffen. He's moved up to #3 on my draft board for who I want the Bengals to draft at #21.

#1 and #2 are Brandon Graham and Earl Thomas, but both of them will probably be gone by the time we draft. So Griffen is the realistic choice.

What do you think of him?

Griffen is an interesting talent. I think he has all the tools, but I really never saw him stand out when I watched USC. USC guys scare me. It seems that they either outshine their predicted success (Cushing, Rey M, Troy P) or woefully underperform (Bush, Leinart, M Williams, Jarrett, Shaun Cody). The Dlinemen (Cody, M Patterson is ok, L Jackson, etc) seem to usually be in the second group (with possible exception of S Ellis). Maybe it is that Griffen reminds me of Jackson in appearance and draft evaluation.

steelblood
03-19-2010, 08:46 AM
One of the weirdest ones I noticed there was CB Dominique Franks - 7.32 3cone, 1.49 10yd. His straight line burst is good on the basis of that 10 yard split time, but his change of direct apparently sucks on the basis of that awful 3 cone time. I think being able to change direction well is more important for an effective corner than just a pure straight line burst of speed.

That is weird. I've watched Franks play and he does excel at what the STeelers do. He is great at off man coverage, keeps his eyes in the backfield and breaks really well on the ball. Teams avoided him this year because he was too good. He is a little stiff, but I wouldn't say he looks terrible. In fact, when I've watched him play, he's looked very natural out there. That is a troubling number though.

steelblood
03-19-2010, 08:47 AM
I was able to find some numbers for you SB:



For guys < 220, <6.8 is real good, >7.2 is not so good
For guys 220-260, <7.0 is real good, >7.4 is not so good
For guys 260-280, <7.3 is real good, >7.6 is not so good
For guys >280, <7.6 is real good, >8.0 is not so good

Safeties:
Chad Jones (221lbs) - 6.83 3cone, 1.61 10 yd
Reshad Jones (214lbs) - 7.43 3cone, 1.56 10 yd
Larry Asante (212lbs) - 7.00 3cone, 1.60 10 yd
Myron Rolle (215lbs) - 6.94 3cone, 1.61 10 yd
Harry Coleman (211lbs) - 7.24 3cone, 1.59 10 yd
Barry Church (222lbs) - 6.65 3cone, 1.60 10 yd
Cody Grimm (203lbs) - 6.58 3cone, 1.53 10 yd
Justin Woodall (223lbs) - 6.88 3cone, 1.61 10 yd
Kyle McCarthy (205lbs) - 6.74 3cone, 1.57 10 yd
Stevie Brown (211lbs) - I believe he ran a 6.61 ish?? From the other thread.
Lucien Antoine(215lbs) - 7.38 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Eric Berry (211lbs) - 6.80 3cone, 1.54 10yd
Taylor Mays (230lbs) - no 3cone, 1.45 10yd
Major Wright (206lbs) - 6.95 3cone, 1.53 10 yd
Robert Johnson (203lbs) - 6.56 3cone, 1.56 10 yd
Terrell Skinner (214lbs) - 7.18 3cone, 1.57 10yd

OLB:
Jason Pierre-Paul (270lbs) - 7.18 3cone, 1.65 10yd
Jerry Hughes (255lbs) - 6.99 3cone, 1.63 10 yd
Lindsey Witten (250lbs) - 7.32 3cone, 1.59 10 yd
Kevin Basped (258lbs) - 7.54 3cone, 1.67 10yd
George Selvie (252lbs) - 7.48 3cone, 1.67 10yd
Willie Young (251lbs) - 7.24 3cone, 1.70 10yd
Rahim Alem (251lbs) - 7.54 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Daniel Te'O-Nesheim (263lbs) - 6.91 3cone, 1.61 10yd
Jammie Kirlew (260lbs) - 7.50 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Greg Middleton (268lbs) - 7.65 3cone, 1.71 10yd
Sergio Kindle (250lbs) - 7.26 3cone, 1.65 10yd
Ricky Sapp (252lbs) - 7.29 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Koa Misi (251lbs) - 7.07 3cone, 1.64 10yd
Eric Norwood (245lbs) - 7.08 3cone, 1.58 10yd
Thaddeus Gibson (243lbs) - 6.84 3cone, 1.64 10yd
Jason Worilds (254lbs) - 6.95 3cone, 1.56 10yd
Dekoda Watson (140lbs) - 7.06 3cone, 1.53 10yd
AJ Edds (246lbs) - 7.19 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Adrian Tracy (248lbs) - 7.08 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Cameron Sheffield (257lbs) - 7.23 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Junior Galette (257lbs) - 7.04 3cone, 1.65 10yd

DE:
Carlos Dunlap (277lbs) - 7.21 3cone, 1.61 10yd
Austen Lane (276lbs) - 7.38 3cone, 1.69 10yd
Greg Hardy (281lbs) - 7.25 3cone, 1.75 10yd
Clifton Geathers (299lbs) - 7.69 3cone, 1.72 10yd
Ndamakung Suh (307lbs) - 7.21 3cone, 1.69 10yd
Gerald McCoy (295lbs) - 7.32 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Jared Odrick (304lbs) - 7.22 3cone, 1.72 10yd
Tyson Alualu (295lbs) - 7.15 3cone, 1.67 10 yd
Lamar Houston (305lbs) - 7.61 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Geno Atkins (293lbs) - 7.33 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Mike Neal (294lbs) - 7.52 3cone, 1.70 10yd
Al Woods (309lbs) - 7.45 3cone, 1.80 10yd
Vince Oghobaase (302lbs) - 7.84 3cone, 1.83 10 yd

OT:
Bryan Bulaga (314lbs) - 7.70 3cone, 1.78 10yd
Trent Williams (315lbs) - 7.64 3cone, 1.70 10yd
Anthony Davis (323lbs) - 8.17 3cone, 1.82 10yd
Bruce Campbell (314lbs) - 7.58 3cone, 1.70 10yd
Rodger Saffold (316lbs) - 7.42 3cone, 1.80 10yd
Vladimir Ducasse (332lbs) - 8.25 3cone, 1.76 10yd
Jared Veldheer (312lbs) - 7.40 3cone, 1.72 10yd
John Jerry (328lbs) - 7.93 3cone, 1.81 10yd
Selvish Capers (308lbs) - 7.68 3cone, 1.74 10 yd
Kyle Calloway (323lbs) - 7.96 3cone, 1.89 10yd
Sam Young (316lbs) - 7.73 3cone, 1.78 10yd
Tony Washington (311lbs) - 7.52 3cone, 1.75 10yd
Thomas Welch (307lbs) - 7.67 3cone, 1.78 10yd

OG:
Mike Iupati (331lbs) - 7.85 3cone, 1.84 10yd
Mike Johnson (312lbs) - 8.15 3cone, 1.87 10yd
Marshall Newhouse (319lbs) - 7.40 3cone, 1.74 10yd
Ciron Black (327lbs) - 8.52 3cone, 1.87 10yd
Brandon Carter (329lbs) - 7.82 3cone, 1.78 10yd
Shawn Lauvao (315lbs)- 7.56 3cone, 1.80 10yd

CB:
Joe Haden - 6.94 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Devin McCourtey - 6.70 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Kareem Jackson - 6.92 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Dominique Franks - 7.32 3cone, 1.49 10yd
Patrick Robinson - 6.78 3cone, 1.50 10yd
Chris Cook - 6.88 3cone, 1.49 10yd
Brandon Ghee - 6.75 3cone, 1.52 10yd
Akwasi - Owusu - 6.84 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Jerome Murphy - 6.87 3cone, 1.60 10yd
Kevin Thomas - 6.82 3cone, 1.52 10yd
Syd'Quan Thompson - 6.73 3cone
Vern Verner - 6.70 3cone, 1.55 10yd
AJ Jefferson - 6.72 3cone, 1.56 10yd
Brian Jackson - 6.76 3cone, 1.56 10yd
Trevard Lindley - 6.81 3cone, 1.55 10yd
Josh Moore - 6.73 3cone, 1.53 10yd
Crezdon Butler - 7.08 3cone, 1.54 10yd
Marshay Green - 6.66 3cone, 1.62 10yd

NT:
Terrence Cody - 8.19 3cone, 1.90 10yd
Linval Joseph - 8.12 3cone, 1.75 10yd
Jay Ross - 7.83 3cone, 1.68 10yd
Cam Thomas - 7.68 3cone, 1.73 10yd
Torrell Troup - 7.61 3cone, 1.75 10yd
Dan Williams - 7.88 3cone, 1.75 10yd

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/v ... 13#9028413 (http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=9028413#9028413)


Awesome. Thanks. Where is Griffen's #?

Jom112
03-19-2010, 10:46 AM
Awesome. Thanks. Where is Griffen's #?

The guy didn't have any 10 yard split #'s for Griffen. He didn't do the 3 cone at the combine either.

I wish he did, although he's not a quick first step guy. He's more of a power, using hands type guy when I watched him play.

You know whose game Griffen reminds me of? Cameron Heyward of tOSU. Even though Heyward is bigger, the play at the LOS of those two seemed similar to me...

steelblood
03-19-2010, 12:13 PM
Really? I see Heyward as a complete 4-3 DE who can be very stout against the run and rush the passer with quickness and strength, play the 3-4 DE, or even slide in and play a 3 technique in a 4-3. I don't think Griffen has that sort of versatility. He is a weakside 4-3 DE who could maybe play 3-4 OLB.

Heyward and Adrian Clayborne are going to be top 5-15 picks next season. They are two of the most versatile DEs I've ever seen. I really hope the Bengals don't get one of those guys. Griffen doesn't frighten me. But, I could very well be wrong.

Jom112
03-19-2010, 01:34 PM
Really? I see Heyward as a complete 4-3 DE who can be very stout against the run and rush the passer with quickness and strength, play the 3-4 DE, or even slide in and play a 3 technique in a 4-3. I don't think Griffen has that sort of versatility. He is a weakside 4-3 DE who could maybe play 3-4 OLB.

Heyward and Adrian Clayborne are going to be top 5-15 picks next season. They are two of the most versatile DEs I've ever seen. I really hope the Bengals don't get one of those guys. Griffen doesn't frighten me. But, I could very well be wrong.

I agree Heyward is a lot more versatile, which makes him a lot more valuable than Griffen.

But I think Griffen is better against the run then people give him credit for. I saw him doubled several times and still the ball carrier had to go away from him. Playing 4-3 DE, I see similarities between the two. If Griffen moved inside (3-4 DE or 4-3 DT) he would struggle whereas Heyward could still excel...

Jom112
03-19-2010, 01:46 PM
Can someone post the contents of this article on here for me, please? My work firewall seems to be preventing me from seeing any of the numbers:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Pro ... -duds.html (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Prospects-Tenyard-split-studs-and-duds.html)

steelblood
03-20-2010, 08:56 AM
Jom, I was unable to copy the contents/tables from this site.