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TallyStiller
03-14-2010, 09:13 PM
Dennis Dixon = Aaron Rodgers. Very good quarterback with the luxury of developing the way QB's used to back in the day - by sitting the bench and waiting their turn, devoid of the pressure of being the annointed savior who has to step in and win NOW or be classified as a colossal bust before they turn 24.

Add in a very good team around him to help, and I expect that just as we stayed with the Rats in Baltimore week 11 last year, we'll be able to play with just about anybody in the league with Dixon at QB next year... at least by December and January, when a team needs to be peaking.

This season presents a unique opportunity to rid the franchise of what is quickly becoming an enormous black eye and potential liability both competitively and financially in Ben and his immaturity without any cap repercussions. The player we need to replace him is, I believe, already on the roster. I think there's a decent chance (say, 1 in 5) that Ben isn't a Steeler by the start of the season. I think it goes closer to 50/50 if he's charged, based on the perfect storm of circumstances with the capless year, already groomed replacement, and team ready to win now and possibly ready to move on.

NW Steeler
03-14-2010, 09:24 PM
Sorry, but I think you are talking like a crazy person.

hawaiiansteel
03-14-2010, 09:33 PM
franchise QBs like Ben don't come along very often. why don't we just wait until the facts come out first before we make any rash decisions?

so far he is only guilty of using poor judgment...
http://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/steelers-girl-15.jpg?w=336

Scarletfire1970
03-14-2010, 09:38 PM
Dennis Dixon is no Aaron Rodgers.

TallyStiller
03-14-2010, 09:59 PM
Once is bad judgment. Jeopardizing your career three times in 5 years with reckless behavior is sheer stupidity that rises to the point of making you a liability, no matter how talented. If Ben gets away with this, what's to say that in a year or two we're not in the same spot again? Do the Steelers really want to go the way of the Indiana Pacers with Ron Artest or the Golden State Warriors with Latrell Sprewell?

If you've got a decent player groomed to step in, strike while the iron is hot, says I... be proactive for the good of the organization.

winwithd
03-14-2010, 10:01 PM
I like Ben. No question he has gotten the job done many times. He can frustrate too with his all or nothing style of play. I was sort of getting tired of him underthrowing Wallace all the time. I thought Ben had a big arm until the one game (Redskins '08, I think) when Leftwich replaced Ben in the second half. Leftwich seemed to throw the ball so much harder than Ben I couldn't believe my eyes. Ever since then it seems to me Ben's arm is not one of the stronger ones in the NFL.

I think Dixon's arm might be stronger than Ben's. He's definitely got wheels. If we had an OC who knew how to utilize his talents, I think Dixon has the tools to be what Mike Vick was SUPPOSED to be. And he was the #1 overall pick one year. We almost won Dixon's first start. With more experience I think he will get more comfortable and make better decisions more consistently. Ben may be more accurate. Not sure there.

I am not jumping to any conclusions about Ben's case but neither am I losing any sleep over what might happen in the case. I think we can win a lot of games with Dixon. After the Baltimore game last year I was even thinking maybe we could trade Ben for a couple #1's in a year or so when Dixon is ready to take over. The biggest thing holding Dixon back might be our OC who doesn't want him to use one of his greatest assets, his legs.

I don't know how that huge contract of Ben's fits into the picture. Is that something that would not give Dixon a fair shot to take over #1?

hawaiiansteel
03-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Ben is our franchise QB, those are not that easy to find. He has already helped us to win two Super Bowls, he just turned 28 and his best years may well be ahead of him.

Are we really having this conversation?


http://moretalk.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/holmes-catch.jpg

stlrz d
03-14-2010, 10:18 PM
Are we really having this conversation?




http://api.ning.com/files/OWTTm9dF0YTmhFIdJcv*TCbgC9DNGUZMwBCLuBhTICjM1nUgHF d55R*C88WMDvv1ENOXh9DWRkok-Cb22MrPZ0oPoXHlw5*G/fail2.jpg

:lol: :lol: :lol:

phillyesq
03-14-2010, 10:31 PM
There is nothing to indicate that Dixon = Aaron Rodgers. There is nothing to say that he is much better than Tee Martin, or even that he could be Kordell.

Dixon is fast and has a decent arm, but he was really exposed against the Ravens when they dropped into a simple zone. Early in the game, he was very much a game manager - the Steelers ran and set up play action. Ben takes over games and wins them. Dixon has not shown that he can do that yet.

PSU_dropout43
03-14-2010, 11:07 PM
Dennis Dixon = Aaron Rodgers.

You'd have to be quite moronic to really believe that.

LOL.

Shawn
03-14-2010, 11:15 PM
Sorry, but I think you are talking like a crazy person.

Agreed while I like Dixon I don't see him ever developing into a franchise QB. He very well could be serviceable...maybe even good. But, I don't see the natural skill set that would allow a frachise to build around him.

RuthlessBurgher
03-14-2010, 11:54 PM
We should trade Ben for a fullback, a 6th round pick in 2011, and a conditional pick in 2012!!!

stlrz d
03-15-2010, 12:09 AM
Sorry, but I think you are talking like a crazy person.

Agreed while I like Dixon I don't see him ever developing into a franchise QB. He very well could be serviceable...maybe even good. But, I don't see the natural skill set that would allow a frachise to build around him.

I have a sneaking suspicion NW's comment was in reference to more than Dixon = Rodgers. ;)

NW Steeler
03-15-2010, 12:30 AM
Actually, it was in response to the whole post. I can't believe that some people are ready to run Ben out of town when he has never even been charged with any crime of any sort. Cutting or trading Ben to "allow" Dixon to become our franchise QB is insane. We are short two Lombardi's without Ben.

hawaiiansteel
03-15-2010, 12:57 AM
Actually, it was in response to the whole post. I can't believe that some people are ready to run Ben out of town when he has never even been charged with any crime of any sort. Cutting or trading Ben to "allow" Dixon to become our franchise QB is insane. We are short two Lombardi's without Ben.



$$$

couldn't have said it better myself... :Cheers

stlrz d
03-15-2010, 07:41 AM
Actually, it was in response to the whole post. I can't believe that some people are ready to run Ben out of town when he has never even been charged with any crime of any sort. Cutting or trading Ben to "allow" Dixon to become our franchise QB is insane. We are short two Lombardi's without Ben.

I knew that. :D :D :D



[quote="NW Steeler":1wfxau5f]Sorry, but I think you are talking like a crazy person.

Agreed while I like Dixon I don't see him ever developing into a franchise QB. He very well could be serviceable...maybe even good. But, I don't see the natural skill set that would allow a frachise to build around him.

I have a sneaking suspicion NW's comment was in reference to more than Dixon = Rodgers. ;)[/quote:1wfxau5f]

Oviedo
03-15-2010, 08:09 AM
Actually, it was in response to the whole post. I can't believe that some people are ready to run Ben out of town when he has never even been charged with any crime of any sort. Cutting or trading Ben to "allow" Dixon to become our franchise QB is insane. We are short two Lombardi's without Ben.

Very correct. No doubt Ben makes really stupid decisions but as pointed out he has not been charged or convicted of ANYTHING.

I have to wonder if the folks willing to run Ben out of town would like there bosses to fire them if they did nothing wrong and were just accused of something? Would you be so willing to see your own lives and careers ruined if you never had anything proven that you did something wrong other than make bad choices?

I think too many people are more worried abouth the grief they get or read on message boards than letting justice run its course.

SteelAbility
03-15-2010, 08:18 AM
Dennis Dixon = Aaron Rogers?

:wft

Dennis Dixon > Aaron Rogers :wink:

NW Steeler
03-15-2010, 09:20 AM
Actually, it was in response to the whole post. I can't believe that some people are ready to run Ben out of town when he has never even been charged with any crime of any sort. Cutting or trading Ben to "allow" Dixon to become our franchise QB is insane. We are short two Lombardi's without Ben.

I knew that. :D :D :D


[quote=Shawn][quote="NW Steeler":25uyhjll]Sorry, but I think you are talking like a crazy person.

Agreed while I like Dixon I don't see him ever developing into a franchise QB. He very well could be serviceable...maybe even good. But, I don't see the natural skill set that would allow a frachise to build around him.

I have a sneaking suspicion NW's comment was in reference to more than Dixon = Rodgers. ;)[/quote:25uyhjll][/quote:25uyhjll]

I guess I should learn how to read! I missed one word...

Slapstick
03-15-2010, 01:06 PM
My God.

Some people will throw anything up on a message board....

I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul...

NW Steeler
03-15-2010, 01:08 PM
My God.

Some people will throw anything up on a message board....

I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul...

That was my initial thought as well.

:Cheers

pfelix73
03-15-2010, 01:17 PM
Who's Dennis Dixon?

:lol:

SteelerOfDeVille
03-15-2010, 02:04 PM
I'm actually in a place where I'd like a mid-round QB... in the event ben is injured... or "whatever".... (hooks up with a high schooler)

:Boobs

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-15-2010, 02:18 PM
Who's Dennis Dixon?

:lol:

Who's Aaron Rodgers? Some QB who has shown some above average skills. DD might be AR, but, without meaning any disrespect, whether he is or isn't, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

TallyStiller
03-15-2010, 07:29 PM
Heck of an interesting discussion, only a few slightly personal attacks on my intelligence (of which I have enough) and my sanity (which is, certifiably, questionable)...

I have to admit, my views are somewhat clouded by something close to disgust at Ben's personal conduct... and my references to Ron Artest and Latrell Sprewell were made because I question whether Ben's issue is immaturity (which he'll grow out of) or impulse control (which will eventually land him in jail, no matter how lawyered up he gets if he doesn't get some help). As the father of a near teen daughter and a high school teacher I look at Ben's situation, look at the young kids I work with and just shake my head. Even if he didn't do anything that can be proven illegal, it's wrong. Some things are bigger than football and jersey loyalty and even my loyalty to the old home in the 'Burgh. I absolutely hate the fact that I have to feel conflicted about rooting for my team. Truthfully, I believe the Rooney family probably feels the same way, having the old style Irish Catholic roots, and ticking off the boss doesn't serve one's best interests regardless of one's profession.

That said, I admit that I get bored and turn off the preseason games late when I don't recognize the jersey numbers, so I haven't seen a ton of Dixon's games... BUT Oregon was a national title contender, #2 in the BCS at 8 - 0 his senior year when he got hurt, and he WAS the team. Without him, they lost out the season. If they win out, he is likely at LEAST a first day pick and maybe sneaks up to the top half of round 2. As it is, he was a tremendous steal, and could be an ace in the hole

Aaron Rodgers is a good NFL quarterback who has a chance to be more, and I believe based on his pedigree and what I've seen of his arm strength and running ability that Dixon could be the same. He played in that silly Oregon spread, which would limit his training in reading defenses... can he do it? Don't know, but our past experiences with guys like him were Korky and Tee Martin, who TOGETHER scored a 22 on the Wonderlic. If the guy has even average smarts, I think he could be something...

And I'd rather go 8 - 8 with a clean conscience and positive role model with competitive upside leading my team than 12 - 4 with a ticking time bomb whose character I deplore and who, if he implodes as I fear he will, could pull the entire franchise down with him. If he goes Michael Vick on us, we turn into the Raiders. If I'm a lone voice, so be it, but I'm ready to cut bait.

Discipline of Steel
03-15-2010, 08:21 PM
This thread is at least one year premature.

RuthlessBurgher
03-15-2010, 09:07 PM
Since you brought up Wonderlic scores, Dennis Dixon's was a 29.

Here are the Wonderlic scores of some other QB's:

1.Drew Henson 42
2.Alex Smith 40
3.Eli Manning 39
4.Brian Griese 39
5.Charlie Frye 38
6.Tony Romo 37
7.Drew Bledsoe 36
8.Matt Leinart 35
9.Kellen Clemens 35
10.Aaron Rodgers 35
11.Tom Brady 33
12.Steve Young 33
13.Joey Harrington 32
14.Patrick Ramsey 32
15.Sage Rosenfels 32
16.J.P. Losman 31
17.Matt Schaub 31
18.Phillip Rivers 30
19.Brady Quinn 29
20.Rex Grossman 29
21.Marc Bulger 29
22.Matt Hasselbeck 29
23.Troy Aikman 29
24.John Elway 29
25.Drew Brees 28
26.Peyton Manning 28
27.Kyle Boller 27
28.Ryan Leaf 27
29.Jay Cutler 26
30.Kyle Orton 26
31.Carson Palmer 26
32.Akili Smith 26
33.Ben Roethlisberger 25
34.Byron Leftwich 25
35.Chad Pennington 25
36.JaMarcus Russell 24
37.David Carr 24
38.Jason Campbell 23
39.Tim Couch 22
40.Trent Dilfer 22
41.Brett Favre 22
42.Michael Vick 20
43.Tarvaris Jackson 19
44.Bruce Gradkowski 19
45.Derek Anderson 19
46.A.J. Feeley 19
47.Daunte Culpepper 18
48.Aaron Brooks 17
49.Vinny Testeverde 17
50.Vince Young 16
51.Steve McNair 15
52.Randall Cunningham 15
53.Dan Marino 15
54.Terry Bradshaw 15
55.David Garrard 14
56.Donovan McNabb 14
57.Marcus Vick 11
58.Jeff George 10
59.Chris Leak 8

TallyStiller
03-15-2010, 09:10 PM
This thread is at least one year premature.

To that I'd probably agree. Ideally, you'd like to see a young guy on the bench at LEAST 3 or 4 years... additionally, although the negative attention does take it's toll on the team, the legal case WILL play out. The only reason I think this even is possible is because of 2010's unique capless year, and even at that, I see the chances being at best 50/50 even if the worst happens legally... but the what ifs are what discussion boards are for!

stlrz d
03-15-2010, 09:15 PM
Heck of an interesting discussion, only a few slightly personal attacks on my intelligence (of which I have enough) and my sanity (which is, certifiably, questionable)...

I have to admit, my views are somewhat clouded by something close to disgust at Ben's personal conduct... and my references to Ron Artest and Latrell Sprewell were made because I question whether Ben's issue is immaturity (which he'll grow out of) or impulse control (which will eventually land him in jail, no matter how lawyered up he gets if he doesn't get some help). As the father of a near teen daughter and a high school teacher I look at Ben's situation, look at the young kids I work with and just shake my head. Even if he didn't do anything that can be proven illegal, it's wrong. Some things are bigger than football and jersey loyalty and even my loyalty to the old home in the 'Burgh. I absolutely hate the fact that I have to feel conflicted about rooting for my team. Truthfully, I believe the Rooney family probably feels the same way, having the old style Irish Catholic roots, and ticking off the boss doesn't serve one's best interests regardless of one's profession.

That said, I admit that I get bored and turn off the preseason games late when I don't recognize the jersey numbers, so I haven't seen a ton of Dixon's games... BUT Oregon was a national title contender, #2 in the BCS at 8 - 0 his senior year when he got hurt, and he WAS the team. Without him, they lost out the season. If they win out, he is likely at LEAST a first day pick and maybe sneaks up to the top half of round 2. As it is, he was a tremendous steal, and could be an ace in the hole

Aaron Rodgers is a good NFL quarterback who has a chance to be more, and I believe based on his pedigree and what I've seen of his arm strength and running ability that Dixon could be the same. He played in that silly Oregon spread, which would limit his training in reading defenses... can he do it? Don't know, but our past experiences with guys like him were Korky and Tee Martin, who TOGETHER scored a 22 on the Wonderlic. If the guy has even average smarts, I think he could be something...

And I'd rather go 8 - 8 with a clean conscience and positive role model with competitive upside leading my team than 12 - 4 with a ticking time bomb whose character I deplore and who, if he implodes as I fear he will, could pull the entire franchise down with him. If he goes Michael Vick on us, we turn into the Raiders. If I'm a lone voice, so be it, but I'm ready to cut bait.

Given the current circumstances I'd have to say I couldn't disagree more.

Steel Life
03-15-2010, 11:13 PM
Here's my take...I'm with Ben until he's not with us. In the meantime, develop Dixon because he's got skills as good as any coming out in the draft this year & could very easily lead this team to a winning record.

TallyStiller
03-16-2010, 07:23 AM
Actually, it was in response to the whole post. I can't believe that some people are ready to run Ben out of town when he has never even been charged with any crime of any sort. Cutting or trading Ben to "allow" Dixon to become our franchise QB is insane. We are short two Lombardi's without Ben.

Very correct. No doubt Ben makes really stupid decisions but as pointed out he has not been charged or convicted of ANYTHING.

I have to wonder if the folks willing to run Ben out of town would like there bosses to fire them if they did nothing wrong and were just accused of something? Would you be so willing to see your own lives and careers ruined if you never had anything proven that you did something wrong other than make bad choices?

I think too many people are more worried abouth the grief they get or read on message boards than letting justice run its course.

This is just it, though... people who live in the real world ARE held responsible for their bad choices - all the time. Ben is insulated from his because of his fame, and because people enjoy watching him do what he's very good at professionally, he has a legion of enablers.

Regardless of whether there was "consent", I'm comfortably certain that if it was known in my community that I had treated a twenty year old college student from a small town in Georgia like a porn star in a women's bathroom at a club while I was on my last vacation, I'd find myself jobless very shortly thereafter... and it wouldn't be a straight out "you're fired". In the real world, there's the awkward, uncomfortable process in which you KNOW your employer wants you gone, but can't fire you yet, so they're working on building the case to fire you for "cause" that really has nothing to do with why they're firing you.

stlrz d
03-16-2010, 07:57 AM
The world of professional sports is not the real world and it never will be.

TallyStiller
03-16-2010, 07:59 PM
I suppose it's like being president and getting a ******* from your intern... or like being Governor of South Carolina and "hiking the Appalachian Trail"... or like my local Congressman - I taught his kids, so I hear the dirt all the time. Dude had an affair in his first term, back in the late '90's, gave it up, his wife forgave him and came back. Got caught AGAIN with ANOTHER aide last year, this time she filed for divorce.

Or it's like Tiger Woods and all 14 of his girlfriends if we want to talk athletes... all of it privilege going to guys' heads. The question, though is this: when do Ben's bad choices in his personal life become a problem that takes him away from the team and sinks the franchise? In all the other cases, guys are only ruining their own lives. In Ben's case, he's liable to drag the entire franchise down with him, both in terms of it's competitive future AND in terms of it's reputation.

Who knows, maybe this one scares him straight... Ray Ray has been a model citizen since he nearly went down for helping kill two people. Michael Vick's time at Club Fed seems to have changed him as well... maybe Ben grows up this time. I'm definitely rooting for this outcome, but I'm beginning to believe it'll never happen.

Thing is, I'll about guarantee that this conversation, or some variation thereof, has been had in the Steelers' FO, in terms of Ben's general lack of maturity, Dixon's readiness and capability to run the show, and the cap ramifications, or lack of same, regarding Ben's release despite the enormous and very scary future financial commitment to the Man - Child.