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Shawn
03-11-2010, 11:16 PM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

feltdizz
03-11-2010, 11:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwpJm-6oEM&feature=youtube_gdata

no one is jealous of Ben's success. We are frustrated with him because he is jeopardizing the Steelers success

Discipline of Steel
03-11-2010, 11:34 PM
Not to mention Stonio. We are fabricating to fill gaps in the facts and/or projecting the most negative of consequences as destined realities. I am withholding my judgements until more definite information is available in both cases.

Shawn
03-11-2010, 11:44 PM
Not to mention Stonio. We are fabricating to fill gaps in the facts and/or projecting the most negative of consequences as destined realities. I am withholding my judgements until more definite information is available in both cases.

Exactly and that's the level headed thing to do. The board has done it with both guys. Of course with Santonio a drug test is a drug test...pretty clear cut if he is guilty. But, we haven't heard any real information.

papillon
03-12-2010, 01:18 AM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

If she wanted to give me a hummer in the John, I would have taken it in a heartbeat, I wouldn't have assaulted her though, that's the difference.

Pappy

Shawn
03-12-2010, 01:39 AM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

If she wanted to give me a hummer in the John, I would have taken it in a heartbeat, I wouldn't have assaulted her though, that's the difference.

Pappy

Yes...I'm sure Ben took the hummer then slammed her head into the wall. If it were anyone but you Pappy I would bust out the rolley eyes. :)

BURGH86STEEL
03-12-2010, 09:50 AM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

So your argument is that most Steelers fans and people that say Ben put himself in a bad situation are jealous of Ben? It does not take a genius to figure that he put himself in a bad position. Especially, with his fortune and fame. The evidence that he put himself in a bad situation is staring you right in the face. Although things don't look good(based on Ben's reported statement), I don't believe most people are saying he is guilty.

There is nothing wrong if people want to question if he should be released. Some fans feel it is best to move on and some don't. They are probably having the conversation within the organization. They have to try to be prepared for the worse case scenario(if Ben is charged). From what I heard on the radio, the Steelers are going to start paying Ben 12 million a year next season. That is something to evaluate when considering Ben and his stupidity. Ben's actions affect this team one way or another regardless of how anyone feels. He is one of the faces of the franchise and should conduct himself as such.

I don't understand why people are embarrassed for Steelers nation. Guess I never caught onto that concept. It is not like we are responsible for each others actions or opinions. We are not responsible for players actions either. People have opinions and I believe most people feel Ben was an idiot for putting himself in that position.

papillon
03-12-2010, 12:40 PM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

If she wanted to give me a hummer in the John, I would have taken it in a heartbeat, I wouldn't have assaulted her though, that's the difference.

Pappy

Yes...I'm sure Ben took the hummer then slammed her head into the wall. If it were anyone but you Pappy I would bust out the rolley eyes. :)

It's okay to rolly eye me, because, we don't know what he did exactly; my point is that the hummer is fine (more or less), but whatever caused the woman to go to the hospital is the problem. His story about her slipping is just odd. If I had just received the said hummer and saw her slip and fall and hot her head I would have at least checked to see that she's okay.

The whole story is weird from her standpoint and Ben's. Right now, Ben's story about her slipping was a bad idea to release to the media. I believe he did this prior to retaining counsel and they are now trying to do the best they can to mitigate Ben's statements, including the admission of sexual contact, but not intercourse.

It just doesn't look good from an objective standpoint right now. Of course, facts have a tricky way of clearing things up and that probably won't happen unless there is a trial. I doubt this ever gets to a courtroom, I'm leaning toward a payoff and then image reparation by Ben. I believe that's his best option and then face the Rooneys.

Pappy

SteelAbility
03-12-2010, 02:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwpJm-6oEM&feature=youtube_gdata

no one is jealous of Ben's success. We are frustrated with him because he is jeopardizing the Steelers success

Hallelujah, pass the bucket. You and I are finally on the same page! :P

SteelAbility
03-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Ok, so for the sake of argument I'll concede. I'm jealous of Ben and I would have fallen the same way. Ok. That's still my fault and I would still be accountable for my actions and WOULD STILL HAVE EXERCISED POOR JUDGMENT. Very often the objective words out of the hypocrite's mouth still stand.

feltdizz
03-12-2010, 02:38 PM
Ok, so for the sake of argument I'll concede. I'm jealous of Ben and I would have fallen the same way. Ok. That's still my fault and I would still be accountable for my actions and WOULD STILL HAVE EXERCISED POOR JUDGMENT. Very often the objective words out of the hypocrite's mouth still stand.

Making this into a jealousy issue...
defining sexual assault vs rape...
civil vs criminal...
Weed smoked vs weed on dashboard and aroma in the air...
smacking the baby's mother with the forehand vs the backhand

The fans who see it as a negative regardless of either vs the fan who defends the player regardless of either!

I find it odd to hear intelligent men defend criminal acts and negative behavior because they want to win games. I want to win too but I'm not compromising my morals to do it. I cheer for the team but when someone points out a negative I don't make excuses for the guy.

Eddie Spaghetti
03-12-2010, 02:54 PM
your arm must get pretty tired from patting yourself on the back so much.

in case you haven't noticed, that's what people do on internet message boards. they judge, speculate, and give personal opinions. it's why al gore invented the damn thing.

acting like you are above the fray in all of this is quite comical.

sd steel
03-12-2010, 11:50 PM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

Would you and the rest of the Big Ben fans with their Steeler shades on give the same benefit of the doubt to Ray Lewis or even Jay Cutler in the same situation? Or would you be saying these guys are more than likely guilty?

If you you say no, you are either a liar or a scumbag.

feltdizz
03-13-2010, 12:56 AM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

Would you and the rest of the Big Ben fans with their Steeler shades on give the same benefit of the doubt to Ray Lewis or even Jay Cutler in the same situation? Or would you be saying these guys are more than likely guilty?

If you you say no, you are either a liar or a scumbag.

be very careful.... calling someone a liar is fightin' words!

sd steel
03-13-2010, 12:59 AM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

Would you and the rest of the Big Ben fans with their Steeler shades on give the same benefit of the doubt to Ray Lewis or even Jay Cutler in the same situation? Or would you be saying these guys are more than likely guilty?

If you you say no, you are either a liar or a scumbag.

be very careful.... calling someone a liar is fightin' words!

Just sayin... :stirpot

Shawn
03-13-2010, 03:03 AM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

So your argument is that most Steelers fans and people that say Ben put himself in a bad situation are jealous of Ben? It does not take a genius to figure that he put himself in a bad position. Especially, with his fortune and fame. The evidence that he put himself in a bad situation is staring you right in the face. Although things don't look good(based on Ben's reported statement), I don't believe most people are saying he is guilty.

There is nothing wrong if people want to question if he should be released. Some fans feel it is best to move on and some don't. They are probably having the conversation within the organization. They have to try to be prepared for the worse case scenario(if Ben is charged). From what I heard on the radio, the Steelers are going to start paying Ben 12 million a year next season. That is something to evaluate when considering Ben and his stupidity. Ben's actions affect this team one way or another regardless of how anyone feels. He is one of the faces of the franchise and should conduct himself as such.

I don't understand why people are embarrassed for Steelers nation. Guess I never caught onto that concept. It is not like we are responsible for each others actions or opinions. We are not responsible for players actions either. People have opinions and I believe most people feel Ben was an idiot for putting himself in that position.

Nope not at all. I'm saying those calling him a rapist are jealous. Those who said he put himself in a bad situation merely by going out...short sighted. We all know now something went on in a club. I think we can all agree that it was really bad judgement to go into a bathroom to play with some chick.

Shawn
03-13-2010, 03:06 AM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

If she wanted to give me a hummer in the John, I would have taken it in a heartbeat, I wouldn't have assaulted her though, that's the difference.

Pappy

Yes...I'm sure Ben took the hummer then slammed her head into the wall. If it were anyone but you Pappy I would bust out the rolley eyes. :)

It's okay to rolly eye me, because, we don't know what he did exactly; my point is that the hummer is fine (more or less), but whatever caused the woman to go to the hospital is the problem. His story about her slipping is just odd. If I had just received the said hummer and saw her slip and fall and hot her head I would have at least checked to see that she's okay.

The whole story is weird from her standpoint and Ben's. Right now, Ben's story about her slipping was a bad idea to release to the media. I believe he did this prior to retaining counsel and they are now trying to do the best they can to mitigate Ben's statements, including the admission of sexual contact, but not intercourse.

It just doesn't look good from an objective standpoint right now. Of course, facts have a tricky way of clearing things up and that probably won't happen unless there is a trial. I doubt this ever gets to a courtroom, I'm leaning toward a payoff and then image reparation by Ben. I believe that's his best option and then face the Rooneys.

Pappy

What's so odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head? Do you really believe Ben physically assaulted a woman? I just don't see it. But, I'll tell you what...if he did...and the Rooneys keep him...I'll be a Browns fan. Second thought,,,I'll just concentrate on college football.

birtikidis
03-13-2010, 03:09 AM
Thing is we don't know the timeline of events. they may have taken her to the hospital after she hit her head. perhaps her kneeling down giving him a hummer caused vertigo when she went to stand up and she fell. we don't know what happened. i didn't judge ray ray or even OJ until all the facts came out and they were on trial. and there's no way i'm gonna judge ben until there are more facts.
how different is this from the bettis case? sounds like the same thing to me.

Shawn
03-13-2010, 03:10 AM
Ok, so for the sake of argument I'll concede. I'm jealous of Ben and I would have fallen the same way. Ok. That's still my fault and I would still be accountable for my actions and WOULD STILL HAVE EXERCISED POOR JUDGMENT. Very often the objective words out of the hypocrite's mouth still stand.

Making this into a jealousy issue...
defining sexual assault vs rape...
civil vs criminal...
Weed smoked vs weed on dashboard and aroma in the air...
smacking the baby's mother with the forehand vs the backhand

The fans who see it as a negative regardless of either vs the fan who defends the player regardless of either!

I find it odd to hear intelligent men defend criminal acts and negative behavior because they want to win games. I want to win too but I'm not compromising my morals to do it. I cheer for the team but when someone points out a negative I don't make excuses for the guy.


What I find odd is you are the most vocal of the critics...calling him a criminal and a rapist with no evidence whatsoever. If you want to say he showed poor judgement then I agree with you...now...more facts are out. But, I think it goes well beyond jealousy with you. Holmes had some negative behaviors but I didn't see you screaming from the roof tops. Odd.

Shawn
03-13-2010, 03:12 AM
Thing is we don't know the timeline of events. they may have taken her to the hospital after she hit her head. perhaps her kneeling down giving him a hummer caused vertigo when she went to stand up and she fell. we don't know what happened. i didn't judge ray ray or even OJ until all the facts came out and they were on trial. and there's no way i'm gonna judge ben until there are more facts.
how different is this from the bettis case? sounds like the same thing to me.

Yeah it's odd that we don't see Felt petitioning to keep Bettis out of the HoF.

Shawn
03-13-2010, 03:20 AM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

Would you and the rest of the Big Ben fans with their Steeler shades on give the same benefit of the doubt to Ray Lewis or even Jay Cutler in the same situation? Or would you be saying these guys are more than likely guilty?

If you you say no, you are either a liar or a scumbag.

I can honestly say I had no idea if Ray was guilty of murder. I certainly didn't pass quick judgement. I actually didn't make a comment on message boards without facts. Now did I harass Ravens fans? Oh yeah. But, not once did I pass judgement without knowing all the details.

You have to understand who I am talking to with this post. I'm not talking to those guys who thought Ben should stay at home wrapped in bubble wrap. I understand where they are coming from no matter how unrealistic it is. I am speaking to those who have convicted the man of rape, battery, sexual assault without a shread of evidence...without knowing any real facts about the situation. These are the same people that are on jury duties. Does that scare anyone but me?

flippy
03-13-2010, 04:15 AM
The power of tmz overwhelms my feebile mind. I cannot help the things I do or say. I succumb to mass marketing 99% of the time.

And who wouldn't be jealous of Ben? I'd take $100M and his talent any day. And if it came that easy, I'd probably live it up without worrying about any consequences.

But as a fan, I just don't want him to mess up my superbowl mojo. Its been so long since our last great QB. I'm not sure I could take another drought like the last. I don't want the Steelers to become the Pirates.

Shawn
03-13-2010, 11:11 AM
The power of tmz overwhelms my feebile mind. I cannot help the things I do or say. I succumb to mass marketing 99% of the time.

And who wouldn't be jealous of Ben? I'd take $100M and his talent any day. And if it came that easy, I'd probably live it up without worrying about any consequences.

But as a fan, I just don't want him to mess up my superbowl mojo. Its been so long since our last great QB. I'm not sure I could take another drought like the last. I don't want the Steelers to become the Pirates.

Sarcasm duly noted...I'm sure we are all jealous of Ben...just some more than others I suppose. And I agree...if I have to watch another Bubby Brister or Kordell Stewart because of this I will not be a happy dude.

feltdizz
03-13-2010, 02:16 PM
Ok, so for the sake of argument I'll concede. I'm jealous of Ben and I would have fallen the same way. Ok. That's still my fault and I would still be accountable for my actions and WOULD STILL HAVE EXERCISED POOR JUDGMENT. Very often the objective words out of the hypocrite's mouth still stand.

Making this into a jealousy issue...
defining sexual assault vs rape...
civil vs criminal...
Weed smoked vs weed on dashboard and aroma in the air...
smacking the baby's mother with the forehand vs the backhand

The fans who see it as a negative regardless of either vs the fan who defends the player regardless of either!

I find it odd to hear intelligent men defend criminal acts and negative behavior because they want to win games. I want to win too but I'm not compromising my morals to do it. I cheer for the team but when someone points out a negative I don't make excuses for the guy.


What I find odd is you are the most vocal of the critics...calling him a criminal and a rapist with no evidence whatsoever. If you want to say he showed poor judgement then I agree with you...now...more facts are out. But, I think it goes well beyond jealousy with you. Holmes had some negative behaviors but I didn't see you screaming from the roof tops. Odd.

you weren't here when the Holmes incident went down... everyone said he was stupid. If the second incident involving Holmes is true he is twice as dumb as I thought. However, weed and accusations of sexual assault are 2 very different things.

When did I call Ben a rapist? When did I call him a criminal? It's hard not to assume I would call him both since he put himself up for debate 2 times in less then a year. However, I have not.

Bettis was accused of rape and the case vanished because he probably paid her off and was smart enough to go get married instead of running to a bar to get a BJ or whatever he received from a complete stranger.

You can point to other cases or episodes but this one is at the forefront. Every scenario or player you speak of is not Ben and I'm sure if Timmons or Woodley were accused of weed or public drunkeness you wouldn't rehash Ben's past transgressions. It's obvious you want others to think like you or sweep the news under the rug.

birtikidis
03-13-2010, 02:24 PM
I haven't seen ANYTHING on Holmes from a reliable news source.. no offense to the person who originally posted it... but until we hear something from a news source I wouldn't even discuss it.

feltdizz
03-13-2010, 02:32 PM
I haven't seen ANYTHING on Holmes from a reliable news source.. no offense to the person who originally posted it... but until we hear something from a news source I wouldn't even discuss it.
If it's not true or if it was a joke to show how rumors can get the board running it was definetly in poor taste

Shawn
03-13-2010, 06:17 PM
Ok, so for the sake of argument I'll concede. I'm jealous of Ben and I would have fallen the same way. Ok. That's still my fault and I would still be accountable for my actions and WOULD STILL HAVE EXERCISED POOR JUDGMENT. Very often the objective words out of the hypocrite's mouth still stand.

Making this into a jealousy issue...
defining sexual assault vs rape...
civil vs criminal...
Weed smoked vs weed on dashboard and aroma in the air...
smacking the baby's mother with the forehand vs the backhand

The fans who see it as a negative regardless of either vs the fan who defends the player regardless of either!

I find it odd to hear intelligent men defend criminal acts and negative behavior because they want to win games. I want to win too but I'm not compromising my morals to do it. I cheer for the team but when someone points out a negative I don't make excuses for the guy.


What I find odd is you are the most vocal of the critics...calling him a criminal and a rapist with no evidence whatsoever. If you want to say he showed poor judgement then I agree with you...now...more facts are out. But, I think it goes well beyond jealousy with you. Holmes had some negative behaviors but I didn't see you screaming from the roof tops. Odd.

you weren't here when the Holmes incident went down... everyone said he was stupid. If the second incident involving Holmes is true he is twice as dumb as I thought. However, weed and accusations of sexual assault are 2 very different things.

When did I call Ben a rapist? When did I call him a criminal? It's hard not to assume I would call him both since he put himself up for debate 2 times in less then a year. However, I have not.

Bettis was accused of rape and the case vanished because he probably paid her off and was smart enough to go get married instead of running to a bar to get a BJ or whatever he received from a complete stranger.

You can point to other cases or episodes but this one is at the forefront. Every scenario or player you speak of is not Ben and I'm sure if Timmons or Woodley were accused of weed or public drunkeness you wouldn't rehash Ben's past transgressions. It's obvious you want others to think like you or sweep the news under the rug.

I don't have any need for others to think like me. I am concerned though about the williness of others to presume guilt without fact. That not only concerns me as a fan but as a citizen. If I was wrongfully accused of something...I certainly wouldn't want you sitting on my jury. That's not to be offensive...just how I feel. I would want people that believed in the system and need proof/facts to convict someone of a crime. I would hope they would keep an open mind.

As for Holmes...his first incident with the cops...I was one of his most vocal supporters. When he was accused of domestic violence...again I defended him. I wanted to see that it was more than a crazy woman trying to get back at her man. But, with weed...I mean unless he was framed we know guilt. It still puts the team in a bad spot. It still shows poor judgement. We know he was caught with pot. And before you think I'm a person who believes everyone who smokes a joint is a pos...I'm not. The only issue I have with it...is the illegality and the fact that it messes with the team.

Right now...after knowing more facts. I am upset with Ben. He showed horrific judgement. I think the team needs to come down like a hammer on him...I think they need to instill some sense and/or humility. Personally, if he is cleared of wrong doing I would still suspend him. With that said, as of now I don't see him forcing himself on a woman. I want to see evidence before I declare him a rapist. I just don't see a guy who had zero problems in HS and college...then getting a taste for bashing womens heads and raping them in bathrooms. It doesn't add up. If they can prove he did so...I will welcome Mark Malone back with almost open arms. :)

Shawn
03-13-2010, 06:20 PM
I haven't seen ANYTHING on Holmes from a reliable news source.. no offense to the person who originally posted it... but until we hear something from a news source I wouldn't even discuss it.
If it's not true or if it was a joke to show how rumors can get the board running it was definetly in poor taste

When I speak about MJ i'm not referring to the rumor but the case in 08. The rumor is just that a rumor. And if it happens not to be true...it was spread in poor taste.

feltdizz
03-13-2010, 07:36 PM
I don't think anyone has called Ben a rapist. However, that card is in the deck and Ben is sitting at the table.

I'm not a murderer but if I ended up on trial or accused of murder and my name was linked to another "bogus" murder... I would understand why the label would get thrown out there in conversations with my name in it.

Honestly, it all comes down to playing time... That's all I really care about in this scandal. If he is guilty throw the book at him... but my biggest concern is how do we go forward without the best QB since Bradshaw.

Now when it comes to Ben's past in HS and College. He wasn't getting it thrown at him like he is now and he didn't have the money and fame. People who act like they can get away with anything when they are Joe Schmoe end up in jail. When you become rich and famous people give you stuff for free because they want your star dust to twinkle on them..

Shawn
03-13-2010, 07:56 PM
I don't think anyone has called Ben a rapist. However, that card is in the deck and Ben is sitting at the table.

I have read it quite a few times from quite a few people...even a couple members I consider very level headed.

I'm not a murderer but if I ended up on trial or accused of murder and my name was linked to another "bogus" murder... I would understand why the label would get thrown out there in conversations with my name in it.

Little different situation...people don't generally have motive to accuse another human being of murder without cause. With Ben he has a big sign on his back...bigger after the first incident. The first one came from a woman...who's friends said she wanted to have Ben's baby. If we know the first to be false...which the evidence leads us to believe she is a loon bat. Then how can we hold it against him? Because he had sex with a hotel chick? Eh I don't buy that.



Honestly, it all comes down to playing time... That's all I really care about in this scandal. If he is guilty throw the book at him... but my biggest concern is how do we go forward without the best QB since Bradshaw.

Agreed on both accounts. If he is guilty I don't want any special treatment and I don't want him on this team.



Now when it comes to Ben's past in HS and College. He wasn't getting it thrown at him like he is now and he didn't have the money and fame. People who act like they can get away with anything when they are Joe Schmoe end up in jail. When you become rich and famous people give you stuff for free because they want your star dust to twinkle on them..

Possibly...but generally people don't convert to a life of crime later in life. That mentality is set very early in childhood and adolesence. Ben can have almost any woman he wishes to have. Why rape one? And lets stick to the facts. This happened in a unisex restroom. I believe they said it was a single toilet restroom with a lock. So he probably didn't follow her in...she would have locked it. It makes more sense that she went into the restroom under her own free will. What did she believe would happen in there? Isn't there a certain amount of presumed permission?

birtikidis
03-13-2010, 09:21 PM
I haven't seen ANYTHING on Holmes from a reliable news source.. no offense to the person who originally posted it... but until we hear something from a news source I wouldn't even discuss it.
If it's not true or if it was a joke to show how rumors can get the board running it was definetly in poor taste

When I speak about MJ i'm not referring to the rumor but the case in 08. The rumor is just that a rumor. And if it happens not to be true...it was spread in poor taste.
shawn I was referring to the most recent rumors. I'm on Holmes' twitter thing and he hasn't even mentioned it. neither has any of the ESPN/NFLN outlets.

papillon
03-13-2010, 11:32 PM
The best friend who secretly despises you because are dating a really hot woman

Your brother/sister who hate you because you are successful

Your neighbor who hates you because your house is bigger than his

And the fan that hates the star of their favorite club because he lives the life they wish they lived

Jealousy is everywhere we look. People do not like to see the success of others. It reminds them of their own inadequacies and their own failures. They want to live like the people they worship and despise. They judge because they can. They libel, slander and throw stones because it makes them feel good. For once they are "better" than that guy. At least they are more "moral" than that guy. They "show better judgement".

The fact is many of the guys on this board would have let that girl get the best of em. In fact most if not all men have their breaking point...the point where the little brain wins.

What I have been reading is an embarassment to the Steeler Nation. No, not just about Ben...but about the fans. Is it too much to ask to support our QB until the facts come out? Obviously it is.

If she wanted to give me a hummer in the John, I would have taken it in a heartbeat, I wouldn't have assaulted her though, that's the difference.

Pappy

Yes...I'm sure Ben took the hummer then slammed her head into the wall. If it were anyone but you Pappy I would bust out the rolley eyes. :)

It's okay to rolly eye me, because, we don't know what he did exactly; my point is that the hummer is fine (more or less), but whatever caused the woman to go to the hospital is the problem. His story about her slipping is just odd. If I had just received the said hummer and saw her slip and fall and hot her head I would have at least checked to see that she's okay.

The whole story is weird from her standpoint and Ben's. Right now, Ben's story about her slipping was a bad idea to release to the media. I believe he did this prior to retaining counsel and they are now trying to do the best they can to mitigate Ben's statements, including the admission of sexual contact, but not intercourse.

It just doesn't look good from an objective standpoint right now. Of course, facts have a tricky way of clearing things up and that probably won't happen unless there is a trial. I doubt this ever gets to a courtroom, I'm leaning toward a payoff and then image reparation by Ben. I believe that's his best option and then face the Rooneys.

Pappy

What's so odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head? Do you really believe Ben physically assaulted a woman? I just don't see it. But, I'll tell you what...if he did...and the Rooneys keep him...I'll be a Browns fan. Second thought,,,I'll just concentrate on college football.

Nothing is odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head. The fact that Ben has admitted having some type of sexual contact with her, the fact that she has filed a sexual assault report and the fact that the report names Ben make it very disturbing and sounding like an excuse rather than an explanation.

I don't believe Ben would "slam" her head against the wall or any other type extremely violent physical contact after the purported sexual liaison, but I could see him being an arrogant @ss and kind give her a shove, or grab her by the back of the head and force her down on him, etc.

Pappy

BATMAN
03-14-2010, 01:05 AM
I'm not jealous of Ben, I just want him to use better judgement. Hanging with college kids is just stupid. Ben has been on the biggest stage of the world probably and won twice. He is a household name, millions of dollars , can afford to go to nice places, hang with people his own worth, age, mental capacity and yet, he has charges up against him.

He might very well be innocent but that is a moot point due to the past stuff he hasn't cleaned up yet and the fact, all this could have been avoided.

Shawn
03-14-2010, 02:34 AM
Nothing is odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head. The fact that Ben has admitted having some type of sexual contact with her, the fact that she has filed a sexual assault report and the fact that the report names Ben make it very disturbing and sounding like an excuse rather than an explanation.

I don't believe Ben would "slam" her head against the wall or any other type extremely violent physical contact after the purported sexual liaison, but I could see him being an arrogant @ss and kind give her a shove, or grab her by the back of the head and force her down on him, etc.

Pappy



------------------------------

Forcing her to go down on him would be rape. So, you are saying you can see Ben being a rapist but he wouldn't slam her head into a wall?

Me personally, I could see a drunk girl giving head in the restroom. After she tried to get up fell back and knocked her noggin. I can see Ben after the fact not giving two hoots about her. It's funny how girls you were into before you shoot your load...don't seem as interesting after. That tends to piss women off.

At this point what happened after they went into the bathroom is all speculation...all based on feelings about Ben. We each see what we want to see. More facts will come out and we will get a better view of that night. What I do know is our speculation won't change the fact that we might be looking for a new QB next season. I waited 20 years for a franchise QB. I wasn't a fan during the Bradshaw era. It would be a real shame if the only team he ends up playing for is Georgia State prison.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-14-2010, 11:53 AM
Nothing is odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head. The fact that Ben has admitted having some type of sexual contact with her, the fact that she has filed a sexual assault report and the fact that the report names Ben make it very disturbing and sounding like an excuse rather than an explanation.

I don't believe Ben would "slam" her head against the wall or any other type extremely violent physical contact after the purported sexual liaison, but I could see him being an arrogant @ss and kind give her a shove, or grab her by the back of the head and force her down on him, etc.

Pappy



----------------------------- Forcing her to go down on him would be rape. So, you are saying you can see Ben being a rapist but he wouldn't slam her head into a wall?

Me personally, I could see a drunk girl giving head in the restroom. After she tried to get up fell back and knocked her noggin. I can see Ben after the fact not giving two hoots about her. It's funny how girls you were into before you shoot your load...don't seem as interesting after. That tends to piss women off.

At this point what happened after they went into the bathroom is all speculation...all based on feelings about Ben. We each see what we want to see. More facts will come out and we will get a better view of that night. What I do know is our speculation won't change the fact that we might be looking for a new QB next season. I waited 20 years for a franchise QB. I wasn't a fan during the Bradshaw era. It would be a real shame if the only team he ends up playing for is Georgia State prison.

http://www.rnbjam.com/modules/chroniks/images/686.jpg

feltdizz
03-14-2010, 01:02 PM
Nothing is odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head. The fact that Ben has admitted having some type of sexual contact with her, the fact that she has filed a sexual assault report and the fact that the report names Ben make it very disturbing and sounding like an excuse rather than an explanation.

I don't believe Ben would "slam" her head against the wall or any other type extremely violent physical contact after the purported sexual liaison, but I could see him being an arrogant @ss and kind give her a shove, or grab her by the back of the head and force her down on him, etc.

Pappy



------------------------------

Forcing her to go down on him would be rape. So, you are saying you can see Ben being a rapist but he wouldn't slam her head into a wall?

Me personally, I could see a drunk girl giving head in the restroom. After she tried to get up fell back and knocked her noggin. I can see Ben after the fact not giving two hoots about her. It's funny how girls you were into before you shoot your load...don't seem as interesting after. That tends to piss women off.

At this point what happened after they went into the bathroom is all speculation...all based on feelings about Ben. We each see what we want to see. More facts will come out and we will get a better view of that night. What I do know is our speculation won't change the fact that we might be looking for a new QB next season. I waited 20 years for a franchise QB. I wasn't a fan during the Bradshaw era. It would be a real shame if the only team he ends up playing for is Georgia State prison.

Glad to see you on here speculating with the rest of us on a message board... :stirpot

On a serious note.. none of us know what happened... but something happened that ended with a bump and an assault charge. Anyway you flip it Ben screwed up...

Those who support him, bash him or trash him have no effect on the case. I just wish our franchise QB could pick classy, respectful skanks who know what time it is after the encounter is over. Nothing in life is free and Ben needs to realize a one night stand/sexual encounter has to be paid for one way or another.

Shawn
03-14-2010, 03:07 PM
Nothing is odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head. The fact that Ben has admitted having some type of sexual contact with her, the fact that she has filed a sexual assault report and the fact that the report names Ben make it very disturbing and sounding like an excuse rather than an explanation.

I don't believe Ben would "slam" her head against the wall or any other type extremely violent physical contact after the purported sexual liaison, but I could see him being an arrogant @ss and kind give her a shove, or grab her by the back of the head and force her down on him, etc.

Pappy



------------------------------

Forcing her to go down on him would be rape. So, you are saying you can see Ben being a rapist but he wouldn't slam her head into a wall?

Me personally, I could see a drunk girl giving head in the restroom. After she tried to get up fell back and knocked her noggin. I can see Ben after the fact not giving two hoots about her. It's funny how girls you were into before you shoot your load...don't seem as interesting after. That tends to piss women off.

At this point what happened after they went into the bathroom is all speculation...all based on feelings about Ben. We each see what we want to see. More facts will come out and we will get a better view of that night. What I do know is our speculation won't change the fact that we might be looking for a new QB next season. I waited 20 years for a franchise QB. I wasn't a fan during the Bradshaw era. It would be a real shame if the only team he ends up playing for is Georgia State prison.

Glad to see you on here speculating with the rest of us on a message board... :stirpot

On a serious note.. none of us know what happened... but something happened that ended with a bump and an assault charge. Anyway you flip it Ben screwed up...

Those who support him, bash him or trash him have no effect on the case. I just wish our franchise QB could pick classy, respectful skanks who know what time it is after the encounter is over. Nothing in life is free and Ben needs to realize a one night stand/sexual encounter has to be paid for one way or another.

There is a pretty big difference in speculation based on fact (ie unisex bathroom, sexual contact, knot on head etc) and convicting a man of a crime without a shread of evidence. I think you know the difference.

Shawn
03-14-2010, 03:09 PM
Nothing is odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head. The fact that Ben has admitted having some type of sexual contact with her, the fact that she has filed a sexual assault report and the fact that the report names Ben make it very disturbing and sounding like an excuse rather than an explanation.

I don't believe Ben would "slam" her head against the wall or any other type extremely violent physical contact after the purported sexual liaison, but I could see him being an arrogant @ss and kind give her a shove, or grab her by the back of the head and force her down on him, etc.

Pappy



----------------------------- Forcing her to go down on him would be rape. So, you are saying you can see Ben being a rapist but he wouldn't slam her head into a wall?

Me personally, I could see a drunk girl giving head in the restroom. After she tried to get up fell back and knocked her noggin. I can see Ben after the fact not giving two hoots about her. It's funny how girls you were into before you shoot your load...don't seem as interesting after. That tends to piss women off.

At this point what happened after they went into the bathroom is all speculation...all based on feelings about Ben. We each see what we want to see. More facts will come out and we will get a better view of that night. What I do know is our speculation won't change the fact that we might be looking for a new QB next season. I waited 20 years for a franchise QB. I wasn't a fan during the Bradshaw era. It would be a real shame if the only team he ends up playing for is Georgia State prison.

http://www.rnbjam.com/modules/chroniks/images/686.jpg

:lol:

That was the exact image that came to mind.

feltdizz
03-14-2010, 03:45 PM
I'm not a judge and I'm not on a jury... Steeler fans can't look at this situation with a clear head. We want him to be innocent.... we are mad and in denial...

I hope it doesn't even get to a jury.

papillon
03-14-2010, 06:01 PM
Nothing is odd about a drunk girl slipping and hitting her head. The fact that Ben has admitted having some type of sexual contact with her, the fact that she has filed a sexual assault report and the fact that the report names Ben make it very disturbing and sounding like an excuse rather than an explanation.

I don't believe Ben would "slam" her head against the wall or any other type extremely violent physical contact after the purported sexual liaison, but I could see him being an arrogant @ss and kind give her a shove, or grab her by the back of the head and force her down on him, etc.

Pappy



------------------------------

Forcing her to go down on him would be rape. So, you are saying you can see Ben being a rapist but he wouldn't slam her head into a wall?

Me personally, I could see a drunk girl giving head in the restroom. After she tried to get up fell back and knocked her noggin. I can see Ben after the fact not giving two hoots about her. It's funny how girls you were into before you shoot your load...don't seem as interesting after. That tends to piss women off.

At this point what happened after they went into the bathroom is all speculation...all based on feelings about Ben. We each see what we want to see. More facts will come out and we will get a better view of that night. What I do know is our speculation won't change the fact that we might be looking for a new QB next season. I waited 20 years for a franchise QB. I wasn't a fan during the Bradshaw era. It would be a real shame if the only team he ends up playing for is Georgia State prison.

Well, since, she hasn't filed rape charges there can't be rape, of course, if it goes to a courtroom the charges could certainly be something other than sexual assault. Yes, I am saying that I don't believe he would try attempted murder (slamming her head against the wall), but I could see him trying to keep her down on him if she decided that this wasn't something she wanted to do. I don't see him physically restraining her, ripping her clothes off and forcing intercourse on her (the more common form of rape). We know Ben says the sex was consensual (she hasn't said anything yet), we know she bumped her head and we know Ben is not denying sexual contact.

Two people know what happened and I doubt we ever know what exactly happened. I hope this never sees the light of day in a courtroom. I'm hoping his attorneys are formulating some kind of payoff to the woman and have her go away and never be heard from again. Ben deserves the monetary loss he will sustain if he settles out of court. I hope it's steep and delivers a message.

His public persona and character need to be rebuilt and he needs to mature.

Pappy

NorthCoast
03-14-2010, 07:03 PM
I am getting the growing sense that Ben + $100M + girls is a volatile combination for him. The argument that money attracts low-life sluts that are looking for a quick buck just doesn't hold much water. There are plenty of rich young guys with money that don't get accused of a sex allegation.
I wonder if Ben's treatment of these women during/after the liason is what it causing the problem. If he treats them like a $2 whore after the deed, then there is bound to be resentment. If the says 'that was great, hope we can hook up again', then my guess is the girl would be a lot less likely to feel make these statements. With one accusation I can chalk it up to maybe a misunderstanding between a guy and girl. But a second time certainly has to give one pause on what is going on. At the very least, Ben needs to quit the one-night stands. It would be much more difficult to prove a sex accusation if they have been on multiple dates.
Not saying Ben doesn't know how to treat a woman, but liquor can make people do strange things. Everyone has experienced "happy drunks" and "angry drunks" at the bar scene.....hope Ben isn't the later.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-14-2010, 09:52 PM
I am getting the growing sense that Ben + $100M + girls is a volatile combination for him. The argument that money attracts low-life sluts that are looking for a quick buck just doesn't hold much water. There are plenty of rich young guys with money that don't get accused of a sex allegation.
I wonder if Ben's treatment of these women during/after the liason is what it causing the problem. If he treats them like a $2 whore after the deed, then there is bound to be resentment. If the says 'that was great, hope we can hook up again', then my guess is the girl would be a lot less likely to feel make these statements. With one accusation I can chalk it up to maybe a misunderstanding between a guy and girl. But a second time certainly has to give one pause on what is going on. At the very least, Ben needs to quit the one-night stands. It would be much more difficult to prove a sex accusation if they have been on multiple dates.
Not saying Ben doesn't know how to treat a woman, but liquor can make people do strange things. Everyone has experienced "happy drunks" and "angry drunks" at the bar scene.....hope Ben isn't the later.

I do too, but the thing is, no one has even said he was drunk that night ... as a matter of fact, for what it's worth, the only thing we've heard is that he wasn't drunk, "nursing a beer", etc.