Should the Steelers...

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Seriously think about suspending, benching or releasing Big Ben? This is his third "event" in which he displays at the best exceptionally poor judgement and at worst criminal behavioral patterns. Those of you like me who have kids have to wonder if this is a guy you can point to as a role model for your kids. I know some say that athletes aren't role models but this team and this TOWN are a little diffrent than most. Anyone who was born and raised in Western Pa. or lived there long enough knows that the Steelers ARE ROLE MODELS it's not a question but a fact. We raise our sons to emulate the steelers past and present and our daughters to cheer for them. I cannot imagine telling my daughters to cheer for this kind of guy can you?

Anyone who at his age ( and with his money ) is still stuck in a frat boy mentality is IMO a "slow learner" (http://www.schoolpsychologistfiles.com/slowLearnerFaq.html).

I know this may be crazy, but if there is enough evidence for charges and an inditment I would like to see at a minimum a suspension FROM THE STEELERS and wouldn't be that adverse to cutting him outright...

[RussBII]

Seriously think about suspending, benching or releasing Big Ben? This is his third "event" in which he displays at the best exceptionally poor judgement and at worst criminal behavioral patterns. Those of you like me who have kids have to wonder if this is a guy you can point to as a role model for your kids. I know some say that athletes aren't role models but this team and this TOWN are a little diffrent than most. Anyone who was born and raised in Western Pa. or lived there long enough knows that the Steelers ARE ROLE MODELS it's not a question but a fact. We raise our sons to emulate the steelers past and present and our daughters to cheer for them. I cannot imagine telling my daughters to cheer for this kind of guy can you?

Anyone who at his age ( and with his money ) is still stuck in a frat boy mentality is IMO a "slow learner" (http://www.schoolpsychologistfiles.com/slowLearnerFaq.html).

I know this may be crazy, but if there is enough evidence for charges and an inditment I would like to see at a minimum a suspension FROM THE STEELERS and wouldn't be that adverse to cutting him outright...

Everyone's trying to lump his motorcycle accident in with this. I don't think you can. Was it stupid and showed bad judgement? Sure. Is it illegal in any way? No. So cast that aside.

I think it really depends on the outcome of either or both of the situations. If he's exonerated on both, then no... don't suspend him. But implement a zero tolerance policy with him. Lay it all out in a contract or something. Any peep about ANYTHING, and you're gone. Salary cap be damned. (if there even is one at that point).

If he's charged, it's a whole new game. The team and the league will respond, and I would imagine pretty drastically.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Everyone's trying to lump his motorcycle accident in with this. I don't think you can. Was it stupid and showed bad judgement? Sure. Is it illegal in any way? No. So cast that aside.



I think the motorcycle accident is part of the behavioural pattern that feeds into all this, plus it was bad PR for the Steelers. :2c

[NW Steeler]

The motorcycle accident was just that, an accident. He wasn't legally required to wear a helmet. Is it stupid to ride without one? Sure, but it his choice. These other two incidents could be a case where he is the victim due to his fame alone. None of us know the truth. I think way too many people are being way too judgmental on a 28 year old single man with 100 mil in the bank. Put yourself in his shoes in a day. If he is found to be guilty of wrongdoing, then fine, pass all the judgment you like. And yes, I am a father of two girls, and I would protect them to all ends. But we don't know the facts about these sexual allegations.

[RussBII]

Everyone's trying to lump his motorcycle accident in with this. I don't think you can. Was it stupid and showed bad judgement? Sure. Is it illegal in any way? No. So cast that aside.



I think the motorcycle accident is part of the behavioural pattern that feeds into all this, plus it was bad PR for the Steelers. :2c

I just don't see it as apples to apples. First off that happened when he was a lot younger. It's also not illegal in any way, right? There was no helmet law at the time.

[JTP53609]

I am in the group that thinks what he did was stupid and I am upset with him for giving the TEAM a black eye, the Steelers pride themselves in having good character, but recently I have been upset by the behavior of a few Steelers...that being said...

Don't have your kids look at Steeler players as role models, I loved the Steelers as much as anyone when I was a kid, I knew all of their numbers, colleges attended and all their stats, but they were NOT my role models. My mom and dad were my role models, I lived with them, I saw them work every day, never complain and do what was best for me. Parents should be role models not athletes that they see on t.v. because it is starting to seem that alot of the athletes are @$$holes anyway, so why would you want your kids to look at them as a hero..

[cruzer8]

No. Hope that helps.

[feltdizz]

Everyone's trying to lump his motorcycle accident in with this. I don't think you can. Was it stupid and showed bad judgement? Sure. Is it illegal in any way? No. So cast that aside.



I think the motorcycle accident is part of the behavioural pattern that feeds into all this, plus it was bad PR for the Steelers. :2c

I just don't see it as apples to apples. First off that happened when he was a lot younger. It's also not illegal in any way, right? There was no helmet law at the time.

It's not about breaking laws.. it's about choices that keep putting him in harms way.

Did he have a valid bike license? I don't think so... Did he have a helmet on? He says he "meant to wear it" but he forgot.

He had sex with a hotel employee... :wft
what kind of woman has sex with a patron at her job? The same kind who work in Colorado and accuse Kobe...

With a civil trial still open Ben has sexual contact with a 20 year old in a public bathroom and she slips and hits her head after it happens....

:wft who can defend these decisions by Ben? I can't and I won't. He can throw the hell out of a football but off the field he is M U D.

We used to debate Ben's stubborn behavior on the field... I'm not surprised he is stubborn off the field but I never thought he would be this bad. He is the white PacMan Jones, very very stupid...

[hawaiiansteel]

No. Hope that helps.




put me down for a "No" also...

how about we wait for the facts to come out before we make any rash decisions?

[Ozey74]

Without evidence that he broke the law, no suspension or any other punishement should be handed to him. Exercising poor judgement isn't against the law. To think that he should be punished for displaying poor judgement is a pretty self righteous attitude to have.

[Lebsteel]

Seriously think about suspending, benching or releasing Big Ben? This is his third "event" in which he displays at the best exceptionally poor judgement and at worst criminal behavioral patterns. Those of you like me who have kids have to wonder if this is a guy you can point to as a role model for your kids. I know some say that athletes aren't role models but this team and this TOWN are a little diffrent than most. Anyone who was born and raised in Western Pa. or lived there long enough knows that the Steelers ARE ROLE MODELS it's not a question but a fact. We raise our sons to emulate the steelers past and present and our daughters to cheer for them. I cannot imagine telling my daughters to cheer for this kind of guy can you?

Anyone who at his age ( and with his money ) is still stuck in a frat boy mentality is IMO a "slow learner" (http://www.schoolpsychologistfiles.com/slowLearnerFaq.html).

I know this may be crazy, but if there is enough evidence for charges and an inditment I would like to see at a minimum a suspension FROM THE STEELERS and wouldn't be that adverse to cutting him outright...

Everyone's trying to lump his motorcycle accident in with this. I don't think you can. Was it stupid and showed bad judgement? Sure. Is it illegal in any way? No. So cast that aside.

I think it really depends on the outcome of either or both of the situations. If he's exonerated on both, then no... don't suspend him. But implement a zero tolerance policy with him. Lay it all out in a contract or something. Any peep about ANYTHING, and you're gone. Salary cap be damned. (if there even is one at that point).

If he's charged, it's a whole new game. The team and the league will respond, and I would imagine pretty drastically.
I was going to type my own response, but you said everything that I was going to type. Thanks and ditto.

[Lebsteel]

Everyone's trying to lump his motorcycle accident in with this. I don't think you can. Was it stupid and showed bad judgement? Sure. Is it illegal in any way? No. So cast that aside.



I think the motorcycle accident is part of the behavioural pattern that feeds into all this, plus it was bad PR for the Steelers. :2c

I just don't see it as apples to apples. First off that happened when he was a lot younger. It's also not illegal in any way, right? There was no helmet law at the time.

It's not about breaking laws.. it's about choices that keep putting him in harms way.

Did he have a valid bike license? I don't think so... Did he have a helmet on? He says he "meant to wear it" but he forgot.

He had sex with a hotel employee... :wft
what kind of woman has sex with a patron at her job? The same kind who work in Colorado and accuse Kobe...

With a civil trial still open Ben has sexual contact with a 20 year old in a public bathroom and she slips and hits her head after it happens....

:wft who can defend these decisions by Ben? I can't and I won't. He can throw the hell out of a football but off the field he is M U D.

We used to debate Ben's stubborn behavior on the field... I'm not surprised he is stubborn off the field but I never thought he would be this bad. He is the white PacMan Jones, very very stupid...
Feltdizz, :Agree 100%

[Shawn]

I just can't believe what I am reading. Releasing Ben? Unless the man is convicted of a sexual crime he will remain with this team.

First, McNulty is a nut. She was bragging how she wanted to have Ben's baby with friends. There was no evidence of rape or assault. She went to his room of her own free will and had sex with him. She then cried rape...no physical evidence...no charges...just a liar. How is that bad judgement?

Second, the motorcycle. I call em suicycles for a reason. Realize this as well. I grew up on bikes. I rode since I was 7. Do you see me on one now? No. Why? Because I have kids. But, Ben is a grown man without kids. If he dies or injures himself he can't play football. He doesn't leave kids and a wife behind. Lets keep that in perspective. Getting out of bed in the morning is a calculated risk. Driving a car is a calculated risk. Driving a small car vs a large one is higher risk. Who does the risk calculations...and why does this person own Ben? He is a grown man...made a decision to ride...wrecked and now no longer rides. As for not having a valid license to ride...yeah stupid.

This case...I will agree he let his hormones take over. It was a bad decision to go into a restroom with this girl. But, that decision isn't worth cutting Ben over unless there was a crime committed.

If no crime was committed the Steelers need to have a long sit down with Ben. He will need to know...that any future nonsense will result with him being traded. Let him make the decision from there.

And PS: If Ben is your kids role model...Ben's escapades are the least of your worries. You should be your kids role model.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

I just can't believe what I am reading. Releasing Ben? Unless the man is convicted of a sexual crime he will remain with this team.

I am simply opening the discussion as to the possibility I never said outright he should be released.


And PS: If Ben is your kids role model...Ben's escapades are the least of your worries. You should be your kids role model.

Thanks for cheap shot, love it when complete strangers declare their superiority. I agree that as parents we have the power to educate our children however that does not mean they willl always listen. Not to mention the fact that kids are not robots limited to ONE SINGLE role model in their life. Our society treats athletes like gods and teachers like leftovers who do you think the kids will want to be like? To deny that these guys are role models to kids is assinine, IMO. When Kids play backyard football who do you think they are pretending to be when they drop back to pass?

[feltdizz]

I just can't believe what I am reading. Releasing Ben? Unless the man is convicted of a sexual crime he will remain with this team.

I am simply opening the discussion as to the possibility I never said outright he should be released.


And PS: If Ben is your kids role model...Ben's escapades are the least of your worries. You should be your kids role model.

Thanks for cheap shot, love it when complete strangers declare their superiority. I agree that as parents we have the power to educate our children however that does not mean they willl always listen. Not to mention the fact that kids are not robots limited to ONE SINGLE role model in their life. Our society treats athletes like gods and teachers like leftovers who do you think the kids will want to be like? To deny that these guys are role models to kids is assinine, IMO. When Kids play backyard football who do you think they are pretending to be when they drop back to pass?

Parents buy their kids jersey's with Ben's name on them. They get together to watch him play and if they meet him or get a sig from him they talk about how cool he is or how great of a guy he is.

It's foolish to think kids aren't asking their parents :wft is up with Ben. I wonder how many are saying what Ben does on his own time is his own business.. just cheer for him on Sunday's...

[Steel Life]

Should the Steelers get him help?...absolutely.

Should the Steelers get a veteran back-up in case things go badly for Ben? - of course.

But to ditch him for anything less than a conviction? - No way.

If Kobe can come back from what he did, if Tiger can be welcomed back after what he did, then why can't Ben?...especially if he's cleared.

[SteelAbility]

Without evidence that he broke the law, no suspension or any other punishement should be handed to him. Exercising poor judgement isn't against the law. To think that he should be punished for displaying poor judgement is a pretty self righteous attitude to have.

I think it's more practical than self-righteous. Ben isn't being fair to the organization that honored with a $100M contract. All contracts have an implied "don't be a schmuck" undertone, just the same as when you contract someone to do a project on your house, he goes out gets drunk and then doesn't show at the appointed time.

For Ben to think he can get away with just any old behavior on someone else's tab is very arrogant.

[Ozey74]

Without evidence that he broke the law, no suspension or any other punishement should be handed to him. Exercising poor judgement isn't against the law. To think that he should be punished for displaying poor judgement is a pretty self righteous attitude to have.

, just the same as when you contract someone to do a project on your house, he goes out gets drunk and then doesn't show at the appointed time.




Well, had this happen to Ben on the night before a game then I would agree with you. If there is something in his contract that specifies that he can't have one night stands, then I will also agree with you. What happened last week is not going to affect how he plays QB in the fall -UNLESS HE IS CONVICTED OR CHARGED WITH A CRIME.

Don't get me wrong, he displayed poor judgement. But unless he is convicted of something or if he violated something in his contract, I don't think he shouldn't be penalized.

[JAR]

What is with Steelers fans and hating the QB?

Ran Bradshaw out of town, cheered when he was laying on the ground injured.

Ran O'Donnell out of town

Started rumors about Kordell

and now a lot are condemning Ben to hell.

If the Steelers cut Ben, like some want, there will be many years of nothing for Steelers fans. Unless Ben is a serial rapist, he better never be cut.

[Shawn]

I just can't believe what I am reading. Releasing Ben? Unless the man is convicted of a sexual crime he will remain with this team.

I am simply opening the discussion as to the possibility I never said outright he should be released.


And PS: If Ben is your kids role model...Ben's escapades are the least of your worries. You should be your kids role model.

Thanks for cheap shot, love it when complete strangers declare their superiority. I agree that as parents we have the power to educate our children however that does not mean they willl always listen. Not to mention the fact that kids are not robots limited to ONE SINGLE role model in their life. Our society treats athletes like gods and teachers like leftovers who do you think the kids will want to be like? To deny that these guys are role models to kids is assinine, IMO. When Kids play backyard football who do you think they are pretending to be when they drop back to pass?

Low blow? You must have an inferiority complex because I wasn't "declaring my superiority". I was stating that children's role models need to be their parents. Parents need to emphasize that looking to sports stars as some sort of moral compass is short sighted at best. If your boy wants to throw like Ben great. But, if your kid is going to start boinkin' chicks in bathrooms because of Ben's actions then I don't know what to say. Please stop dramatizing this subject with emotional nonsense that has no place.

[feltdizz]

What is with Steelers fans and hating the QB?

Ran Bradshaw out of town, cheered when he was laying on the ground injured.

Ran O'Donnell out of town

Started rumors about Kordell

and now a lot are condemning Ben to hell.

If the Steelers cut Ben, like some want, there will be many years of nothing for Steelers fans. Unless Ben is a serial rapist, he better never be cut.

Steeler fans hate QB's for what they do and don't do on the field.

People hate Ben's drama because it has the potential to keep him OFF the field. The question of Ben being a serial rapist is on the table because of his actions...

No one started a Ben is a rapist rumor.

There is a difference.

[Shawn]

What is with Steelers fans and hating the QB?

Ran Bradshaw out of town, cheered when he was laying on the ground injured.

Ran O'Donnell out of town

Started rumors about Kordell

and now a lot are condemning Ben to hell.

If the Steelers cut Ben, like some want, there will be many years of nothing for Steelers fans. Unless Ben is a serial rapist, he better never be cut.

Steeler fans hate QB's for what they do and don't do on the field.

People hate Ben's drama because it has the potential to keep him OFF the field. The question of Ben being a serial rapist is on the table because of his actions...

No one started a Ben is a rapist rumor.

There is a difference.

This I will agree with. The talk and overreaction comes from anxiety about the possibility of Ben not playing. The talk from the rest of the world because other teams fans hate the Steelers. How much fun did we have talking about Ray Lewis? True or not true we enjoyed busting balls.

[Ozey74]

What is with Steelers fans and hating the QB?

Ran Bradshaw out of town, cheered when he was laying on the ground injured.

Ran O'Donnell out of town

Started rumors about Kordell

and now a lot are condemning Ben to hell.

If the Steelers cut Ben, like some want, there will be many years of nothing for Steelers fans. Unless Ben is a serial rapist, he better never be cut.

Steeler fans hate QB's for what they do and don't do on the field.

People hate Ben's drama because it has the potential to keep him OFF the field. The question of Ben being a serial rapist is on the table because of his actions...

No one started a Ben is a rapist rumor.

There is a difference.


At this point in time, the only drama that Ben is guilty of creating on his own is riding his cycle w/out a helmet. Riding a bike without a helmet like driving a car w/out a seatbealt (and who amoung us hasn't been guilty of that in the past?).

For all we know (and hope), these two rape allegations could be fabricated and false.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Low blow? You must have an inferiority complex because I wasn't "declaring my superiority". I was stating that children's role models need to be their parents. Parents need to emphasize that looking to sports stars as some sort of moral compass is short sighted at best. If your boy wants to throw like Ben great. But, if your kid is going to start boinkin' chicks in bathrooms because of Ben's actions then I don't know what to say. Please stop dramatizing this subject with emotional nonsense that has no place.

Not all quarterbacks are good role models and not all parents are good role models. Believe it or not there are people out there who look to these guys as hero's. I am my childrens role model however there are more people in the world than me. How is life in eutopia?

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

What is with Steelers fans and hating the QB?

Ran Bradshaw out of town, cheered when he was laying on the ground injured.

Ran O'Donnell out of town

Started rumors about Kordell

and now a lot are condemning Ben to hell.

If the Steelers cut Ben, like some want, there will be many years of nothing for Steelers fans. Unless Ben is a serial rapist, he better never be cut.

I don't want to run anyone out of town, I am asking if there are charges and a subsequent indictment when do the Steelers seriously start considering moving on? Do you really think serial rapist is the line?

[JAR]

What is with Steelers fans and hating the QB?

Ran Bradshaw out of town, cheered when he was laying on the ground injured.

Ran O'Donnell out of town

Started rumors about Kordell

and now a lot are condemning Ben to hell.

If the Steelers cut Ben, like some want, there will be many years of nothing for Steelers fans. Unless Ben is a serial rapist, he better never be cut.

I don't want to run anyone out of town, I am asking if there are charges and a subsequent indictment when do the Steelers seriously start considering moving on? Do you really think serial rapist is the line?

Yes, I agree, serious charges and convicted guilt, he needs to go. But people are talking about cutting him now just because his name is in the news again.

[Ozey74]

But people are talking about cutting him now just because his name is in the news again.


Which is absolutely insane!

[Shawn]

Low blow? You must have an inferiority complex because I wasn't "declaring my superiority". I was stating that children's role models need to be their parents. Parents need to emphasize that looking to sports stars as some sort of moral compass is short sighted at best. If your boy wants to throw like Ben great. But, if your kid is going to start boinkin' chicks in bathrooms because of Ben's actions then I don't know what to say. Please stop dramatizing this subject with emotional nonsense that has no place.

Not all quarterbacks are good role models and not all parents are good role models. Believe it or not there are people out there who look to these guys as hero's. I am my childrens role model however there are more people in the world than me. How is life in eutopia?

Eutopia...lol. It's like I'm arguing with my wife.

And PS-if you are your child's role model...do you think placing half naked chicks in your sig is a good way to show a young boy how to view young women? Just curious about your thoughts on that. Don't want to declare superiority or anything...but I am curious why you are so concerned with Ben when your behavior is kinda pigish. ;)

[Ozey74]

And PS-if you are your child's role model...do you think placing half naked chicks in your sig is a good way to show a young boy how to view young women? Just curious about your thoughts on that. Don't want to declare superiority or anything...but I am curious why you are so concerned with Ben when your behavior is kinda pigish. ;)



:Clap

[Discipline of Steel]

But people are talking about cutting him now just because his name is in the news again.


Which is absolutely insane!

Especially when the people who are staking claim to this moral high ground have fantasy women in their signatures.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Eutopia...lol. It's like I'm arguing with my wife.

And PS-if you are your child's role model...do you think placing half naked chicks in your sig is a good way to show a young boy how to view young women? Just curious about your thoughts on that. Don't want to declare superiority or anything...but I am curious why you are so concerned with Ben when your behavior is kinda pigish

Kinda pigish and kinda rapist are not the same. Is there something you find objectionable or offensive about a nice looking woman? How would you breach the subject? Hide it from them? I will agree that it is hypocrytical of me to a point, however it is not advocating sexual assault or abuse IMO.

I am concerned with Ben's behaviour because it may have crossed a line that no man should EVER cross and he happens to be quarterback of my hometown team.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

What half naked woman? J/K LoL

[Shawn]

Eutopia...lol. It's like I'm arguing with my wife.

And PS-if you are your child's role model...do you think placing half naked chicks in your sig is a good way to show a young boy how to view young women? Just curious about your thoughts on that. Don't want to declare superiority or anything...but I am curious why you are so concerned with Ben when your behavior is kinda pigish

Kinda pigish and kinda rapist are not the same. Is there something you find objectionable or offensive about a nice looking woman? How would you breach the subject? Hide it from them? I will agree that it is hypocrytical of me to a point, however it is not advocating sexual assault or abuse IMO.

I am concerned with Ben's behaviour because it may have crossed a line that no man should EVER cross and he happens to be quarterback of my hometown team.

I don't find beautiful women objectionable. I'm just saying I find it kinda ironic that you are slamming Ben for pigish behavior while you have a half naked girl...who is likely 10-20 years your junior in your sig. To each their own but you know what they say about people who live in glass houses.

As for talking with boys and young men about sex and females I would probably start with...don't treat women like objects then lead by example. But, that might just be me.

As for the kinda rapist comment. What evidence do you base that claim on?

I see alot of guys here acting like their ish don't stink. I would bet a good majority of you guys would have let that girl give you a twirl in the bathroom. You know what they say...if you spot it...you got it. :)

[Shawn]

But people are talking about cutting him now just because his name is in the news again.


Which is absolutely insane!

Especially when the people who are staking claim to this moral high ground have fantasy women in their signatures.

lol...exactly. Cracks me up.

[feltdizz]

:wft does a photo of a hot chick have to do with rape or sexual assault? Appreciating a half dressed woman is no where near as bad as inappropriate contact with one.

Shawn you are reaching for anything on your way down...

Is a deleted sig of a girl murder?

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

I don't find beautiful women objectionable. I'm just saying I find it kinda ironic that you are slamming Ben for pigish behavior while you have a half naked girl...who is likely 10-20 years your junior in your sig. To each their own but you know what they say about people who live in glass houses.

Slamming Ben????? Did you read the post or just hear what you wanted? I don't want Ben to be charged, I don't want Ben to be guilty but no matter how much I WANT it may NOT be reality. What don't you get about this?



As for talking with boys and young men about sex and females I would probably start with...don't treat women like objects then lead by example. But, that might just be me.


:roll: , now who is the morality police?



As for the kinda rapist comment. What evidence do you base that claim on?


The same evidence you use to say Ben was getting a hummer. I never said he was or was not guilty. Just raised a question, do those frighten you?



I see alot of guys here acting like their ish don't stink. I would bet a good majority of you guys would have let that girl give you a twirl in the bathroom. You know what they say...if you spot it...you got it.


Speak for yourself my sh&t stinks.

[papillon]

Q: Should Ben be cut or released?
A: Not yet

Circumstances to change my answer to no:

Out of court settlement
Charges dropped
Charges filed, trial held and innocent verdict returned


Anything else pretty much guarantees being released or suspended and then released and an attempt to recoup money from Ben.

Pappy

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Q: Should Ben be cut or released?
A: Not yet

Circumstances to change my answer to no:

Out of court settlement
Charges dropped
Charges filed, trial held and innocent verdict returned


Anything else pretty much guarantees being released or suspended and then released and an attempt to recoup money from Ben.

Pappy


I totally agree with this, wow it is possible to have an actual discussion. Thanks Pap

[Shawn]

:wft does a photo of a hot chick have to do with rape or sexual assault? Appreciating a half dressed woman is no where near as bad as inappropriate contact with one.

Shawn you are reaching for anything on your way down...

Is a deleted sig of a girl murder?

No one said that looking at women like objects is the same as raping one. But, there is no evidence that Ben did anything you accuse him of. But, I will say I find it funny/ very ironic someone placing a half naked chick of a girl half his age in his sig...then throwing stones about Ben being a "pig". I think some would argue placing those kinds of things in your sig is piggish and certainly hypocritical. Of course, hypocracy is the name of the game here as of late.

[Shawn]

[quote]I don't find beautiful women objectionable. I'm just saying I find it kinda ironic that you are slamming Ben for pigish behavior while you have a half naked girl...who is likely 10-20 years your junior in your sig. To each their own but you know what they say about people who live in glass houses.

Slamming Ben????? Did you read the post or just hear what you wanted? I don't want Ben to be charged, I don't want Ben to be guilty but no matter how much I WANT it may NOT be reality. What don't you get about this?



As for talking with boys and young men about sex and females I would probably start with...don't treat women like objects then lead by example. But, that might just be me.


:roll: , now who is the morality police?



As for the kinda rapist comment. What evidence do you base that claim on?


The same evidence you use to say Ben was getting a hummer. I never said he was or was not guilty. Just raised a question, do those frighten you?



I see alot of guys here acting like their ish don't stink. I would bet a good majority of you guys would have let that girl give you a twirl in the bathroom. You know what they say...if you spot it...you got it.


Speak for yourself my sh&t stinks.[/quote:1nf8i3hv]


Just saying anyone calling Ben a pig...cutting on his "judgement" or trying to critique where he gets his hummer had better be spotless. And you sir are obviously not.

As for "morality police" didn't you ask my opinion on how I would address the subject with a young boy? So let me get your logic straight. Lets teach young boys to look at girls like objects. Let them know its ok to publically display half naked chicks half your age in your sports sigs...then expect them not to treat women like objects. Yeah that makes sense.

Listen, if you want to porn it up, hit the strip clubs, get bjs from hookers etc more power to you. But, all I ask is you keep your judgemental comments to yourself.

[papillon]

Q: Should Ben be cut or released?
A: Not yet

Circumstances to change my answer to no:

Out of court settlement
Charges dropped
Charges filed, trial held and innocent verdict returned


Anything else pretty much guarantees being released or suspended and then released and an attempt to recoup money from Ben.

Pappy


I totally agree with this, wow it is possible to have an actual discussion. Thanks Pap

It's what I do... :tt2

Pappy

[Shawn]

Q: Should Ben be cut or released?
A: Not yet

Circumstances to change my answer to no:

Out of court settlement
Charges dropped
Charges filed, trial held and innocent verdict returned


Anything else pretty much guarantees being released or suspended and then released and an attempt to recoup money from Ben.

Pappy


I totally agree with this, wow it is possible to have an actual discussion. Thanks Pap

As long as the discussion sticks to the facts rather than a diatribe about the moral failings of Ben I think we can. Btw this isn't his third incident. There was a crazy chick who decided to cry rape after saying she wanted to have Ben's baby. There was a motorcycle wreck...oh the horrah! And this one which we know little about.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Just saying anyone calling Ben a pig...cutting on his "judgement" or trying to critique where he gets his hummer had better be spotless. And you sir are obviously not.


Never called him a pig and how do you KNOW he got a hummer?


As for "morality police" didn't you ask my opinion on how I would address the subject with a young boy? So let me get your logic straight. Lets teach young boys to look at girls like objects. Let them know its ok to publically display half naked chicks half your age in your sports sigs...then expect them not to treat women like objects. Yeah that makes sense.


Kind of like watching beer commercials , chererleaders and every other influence out there while watching the game?!?!?!



Listen, if you want to porn it up, hit the strip clubs, get bjs from hookers etc more power to you. But, all I ask is you keep your judgemental comments to yourself.

Judgemental? Didn't you just brand me as some kind of lowlife and you don't even know meLife is to short to devote any more time to you...

[Shawn]

[quote]

Just saying anyone calling Ben a pig...cutting on his "judgement" or trying to critique where he gets his hummer had better be spotless. And you sir are obviously not.


Never called him a pig and how do you KNOW he got a hummer?


As for "morality police" didn't you ask my opinion on how I would address the subject with a young boy? So let me get your logic straight. Lets teach young boys to look at girls like objects. Let them know its ok to publically display half naked chicks half your age in your sports sigs...then expect them not to treat women like objects. Yeah that makes sense.


Kind of like watching beer commercials , chererleaders and every other influence out there while watching the game?!?!?!



Listen, if you want to porn it up, hit the strip clubs, get bjs from hookers etc more power to you. But, all I ask is you keep your judgemental comments to yourself.

Judgemental? Didn't you just brand me as some kind of lowlife and you don't even know meLife is to short to devote any more time to you...[/quote:2byl1fue]


Ok...I'm done here. When did I brand you a low life? When did I claim superiority? The fact that you view my posts through that filter means I'm wasting my time trying to reason with you.

I try not to ever judge anyone. I consider myself no better and no less than anyone. That's how I approach life. So, when I see people making moral judgements about others I like to call them on thier own inconsistancies. Believe me...I have my issues...I am not a priest. I have areas of inconsistancy and moral failings. But, I also reserve judgement. That's the difference.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Ok...I'm done here. When did I brand you a low life? When did I claim superiority? The fact that you view my posts through that filter means I'm wasting my time trying to reason with you.

I try not to ever judge anyone. I consider myself no better and no less than anyone. That's how I approach life. So, when I see people making moral judgements about others I like to call them on thier own inconsistancies. Believe me...I have my issues...I am not a priest. I have areas of inconsistancy and moral failings. But, I also reserve judgement. That's the difference.

Claiming I solicite hookers doesn't qualify as judgement? And BTW I never passed judgement that is the real irony here. :HeadBanger

[Shawn]

Ok...I'm done here. When did I brand you a low life? When did I claim superiority? The fact that you view my posts through that filter means I'm wasting my time trying to reason with you.

I try not to ever judge anyone. I consider myself no better and no less than anyone. That's how I approach life. So, when I see people making moral judgements about others I like to call them on thier own inconsistancies. Believe me...I have my issues...I am not a priest. I have areas of inconsistancy and moral failings. But, I also reserve judgement. That's the difference.

Claiming I solicite hookers doesn't qualify as judgement? And BTW I never passed judgement that is the real irony here. :HeadBanger

Wow...re-read the statement and take that insecure monkey off your back for a second. I never said you solicit hookers. I was saying I could care less what you do...just don't try to act like your ish don't stink. This is a frustrating conversation and I'm starting to wonder if you are yanking my chain or you really are that insecure.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Wow...re-read the statement and take that insecure monkey off your back for a second. I never said you solicit hookers. I was saying I could care less what you do...just don't try to act like your ish don't stink. This is a frustrating conversation and I'm starting to wonder if you are yanking my chain or you really are that insecure.

Don't care what you think, you talk in circles and love to listen, bla bla bla

[Shawn]

Wow...re-read the statement and take that insecure monkey off your back for a second. I never said you solicit hookers. I was saying I could care less what you do...just don't try to act like your ish don't stink. This is a frustrating conversation and I'm starting to wonder if you are yanking my chain or you really are that insecure.

Don't care what you think, you talk in circles and love to listen, bla bla bla

Not sure what any of that means but what ever floats your boat.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Wow...re-read the statement and take that insecure monkey off your back for a second. I never said you solicit hookers. I was saying I could care less what you do...just don't try to act like your ish don't stink. This is a frustrating conversation and I'm starting to wonder if you are yanking my chain or you really are that insecure.

Don't care what you think, you talk in circles and love to listen, bla bla bla

Not sure what any of that means but what ever floats your boat.


Blaa blaa blaa

[BlackJackGold]

I believe that ben will be charged, suspended by the league & waived from the team all within a 24 hr period in the next two weeks.

He may already be suspended from the team as he is MIA from off season work outs.

[snarky]

I believe that ben will be charged, suspended by the league & waived from the team all within a 24 hr period in the next two weeks.

He may already be suspended from the team as he is MIA from off season work outs.

I highly doubt this.

[Shawn]

I believe that ben will be charged, suspended by the league & waived from the team all within a 24 hr period in the next two weeks.

He may already be suspended from the team as he is MIA from off season work outs.

I highly doubt this.

Ditto. My prediction...Ben's lawyer gives him some really great advice and tells him to settle. He plays next season a little wiser.

[papillon]

I believe that ben will be charged, suspended by the league & waived from the team all within a 24 hr period in the next two weeks.

He may already be suspended from the team as he is MIA from off season work outs.

I highly doubt this.

Ditto. My prediction...Ben's lawyer gives him some really great advice and tells him to settle. He plays next season a little wiser.

If he settles, I hope it hist his bank account hard, he deserves it and maybe it will wake his dumb@ss up. I'd hate to see the woman get a nice big settlement, but, if it teaches Ben a thing or two about life in the NFL it will be well worth it.

Pappy

[BlackJackGold]

I don't see a settlement being a viable possibility after the GBI has put so many resources into the investigation already.

Someone is getting charged with something, one way or another.

That's just the way it works around there.......

[Shawn]

I don't see a settlement being a viable possibility after the GBI has put so many resources into the investigation already.

Someone is getting charged with something, one way or another.

That's just the way it works around there.......

Really? You seem to know alot about the process. I'm curious...how will they prosecute without their star witness?

[feltdizz]

I don't see a settlement being a viable possibility after the GBI has put so many resources into the investigation already.

Someone is getting charged with something, one way or another.

That's just the way it works around there.......

hmm... that could be interesting. I think her background will have a lot to do with this. Is she a southern bell or a Yankee? Does she have faculty and local connects who will demand justice regardless? Will Ben get the "southern" treatment?

[BlackJackGold]

I don't see a settlement being a viable possibility after the GBI has put so many resources into the investigation already.

Someone is getting charged with something, one way or another.

That's just the way it works around there.......

Really? You seem to know alot about the process. I'm curious...how will they prosecute without their star witness?


They can go based on just medical records.

However, it would be more likely that they would pressure her to testify by threatening to charge her with making a false report if she tries to recant.

Like I said, somebody is getting charged with something, one way or another....

[Shawn]

I don't see a settlement being a viable possibility after the GBI has put so many resources into the investigation already.

Someone is getting charged with something, one way or another.

That's just the way it works around there.......

Really? You seem to know alot about the process. I'm curious...how will they prosecute without their star witness?


They can go based on just medical records.

However, it would be more likely that they would pressure her to testify by threatening to charge her with making a false report if she tries to recant.

Like I said, somebody is getting charged with something, one way or another....

If he pays her...it will include a hush clause. If she violates that...no money. They can't prosecute on pure medical reports. Lets assume the worst...

-Everyone in the bar said Ben was a piggish acs.
-Everyone in the bar seen them go into the restroom and body guards placed
-medical reports show bruising, rectal tears and a knot on the head

Even in the worst case scenerio which is an absurd scenerio they couldn't convict. What if she liked rough sex...they were rough and kinky. Without a witness this won't be prosecuted. So, he really needs to pay the cash before this gets too far. The earlier the settlement...the less likely the prosecutor will try to push this.

[snarky]

I'd be interested in a criminal attorney's perspective on him 'settleing' with this woman. Unless she files a civil suit there is nothing to settle and would a defense attorney really recommend that he approach her with a settlement? What if she doesn't accept and his offer to buy her off comes out at the criminal trial?

BTW, I think women who like rough sex still get to choose who they have it with.

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Unless she files a civil suit there is nothing to settle and would a defense attorney really recommend that he approach her with a settlement? What if she doesn't accept and his offer to buy her off comes out at the criminal trial?

Georgia is not a commonwealth, so if the lawyers can work out a settlement then there would be no criminal charge brought by the alleged victim. ( In Pa. The DA can still move forward with criminal charges. ) I am not sure as to the admissibility of those negotiations in a jury trial. I cannot see any lawyer not advising Ben to try and make this go away, albeit in a discrete manner, that's what these guys are paid to do.

[Shawn]

Unless she files a civil suit there is nothing to settle and would a defense attorney really recommend that he approach her with a settlement? What if she doesn't accept and his offer to buy her off comes out at the criminal trial?

Georgia is not a commonwealth, so if the lawyers can work out a settlement then there would be no criminal charge brought by the alleged victim. ( In Pa. The DA can still move forward with criminal charges. ) I am not sure as to the admissibility of those negotiations in a jury trial. I cannot see any lawyer not advising Ben to try and make this go away, albeit in a discrete manner, that's what these guys are paid to do.

Yeah, I have to agree with you again. I have never heard of pretrial negotiations being brought up during trial. I am obviously not a lawyer but have been exposed to the process through doing medical research for lawyers. If a physician wishes to settle with someone suing him for malpractice...I have never seen that becoming part of the "evidence" against him. Of course that is civil but many times there is a state medical board involved.

[BlackJackGold]

Everyone is overlooking the most important part of 'settling' this claim....

What if the victim refuses because she wants justice?

If the victim is of the mind set that prosecuting in criminal court is the right thing to do, there is no way ben can settle the case.

[Shawn]

Everyone is overlooking the most important part of 'settling' this claim....

What if the victim refuses because she wants justice?

If the victim is of the mind set that prosecuting in criminal court is the right thing to do, there is no way ben can settle the case.

That would assume that Ben is guilty. And I would have to also assume that the alleged victim would have to be sufficiently "offended". So, this girl parties with Ben during the night. She goes into a single unisex bathroom with Ben...knowing something sexual would go on. According to Ben they do not have sex. What is left to get offened about? What is left to feel assaulted over? I would understand if she went into the bathroom to give him a birthday hummer...he wanted more and raped the girl. That is about the only scenerio that makes this girl's story hold water.

You seem to be pretty convinced that Ben did something illegal. I would love to know what about the girl's story is valid in your mind. How do you explain her willingness to go into the bathroom in the first place? If by some slim shot this actually goes to trial...which I do not believe it will...the defense will have a field day with the girl's motive for going into that bathroom alone with Ben. Couple that with the investigators digging up every guy she has ever slept with. She had better be a virgin because I can guarantee the defense will turn her life inside out.

[feltdizz]

Everyone is overlooking the most important part of 'settling' this claim....

What if the victim refuses because she wants justice?

If the victim is of the mind set that prosecuting in criminal court is the right thing to do, there is no way ben can settle the case.

That would assume that Ben is guilty. And I would have to also assume that the alleged victim would have to be sufficiently "offended". So, this girl parties with Ben during the night. She goes into a single unisex bathroom with Ben...knowing something sexual would go on. According to Ben they do not have sex. What is left to get offened about? What is left to feel assaulted over? I would understand if she went into the bathroom to give him a birthday hummer...he wanted more and raped the girl. That is about the only scenerio that makes this girl's story hold water.

You seem to be pretty convinced that Ben did something illegal. I would love to know what about the girl's story is valid in your mind. How do you explain her willingness to go into the bathroom in the first place? If by some slim shot this actually goes to trial...which I do not believe it will...the defense will have a field day with the girl's motive for going into that bathroom alone with Ben. Couple that with the investigators digging up every guy she has ever slept with. She had better be a virgin because I can guarantee the defense will turn her life inside out.
She could be the town tramp... doesn't mean she deserved or wanted what she alleges happened.

In my single years I have been invited to a chicks dorm rooms after 2AM and then she said stop or acted like I offended her by suggesting sex was in the air. I knew friends who did the "I'm getting booty" dance only to come home in defeat. We didn't have a money and fame but still...LOL!!!

Going into a bathroom with Ben doesn't mean a damn thing... especially if he was giving her shots all night. A drunk 20 year old in college is nothing to play around with when you have so much to lose.

[Shawn]

Everyone is overlooking the most important part of 'settling' this claim....

What if the victim refuses because she wants justice?

If the victim is of the mind set that prosecuting in criminal court is the right thing to do, there is no way ben can settle the case.

That would assume that Ben is guilty. And I would have to also assume that the alleged victim would have to be sufficiently "offended". So, this girl parties with Ben during the night. She goes into a single unisex bathroom with Ben...knowing something sexual would go on. According to Ben they do not have sex. What is left to get offened about? What is left to feel assaulted over? I would understand if she went into the bathroom to give him a birthday hummer...he wanted more and raped the girl. That is about the only scenerio that makes this girl's story hold water.

You seem to be pretty convinced that Ben did something illegal. I would love to know what about the girl's story is valid in your mind. How do you explain her willingness to go into the bathroom in the first place? If by some slim shot this actually goes to trial...which I do not believe it will...the defense will have a field day with the girl's motive for going into that bathroom alone with Ben. Couple that with the investigators digging up every guy she has ever slept with. She had better be a virgin because I can guarantee the defense will turn her life inside out.
She could be the town tramp... doesn't mean she deserved or wanted what she alleges happened.

In my single years I have been invited to a chicks dorm rooms after 2AM and then she said stop or acted like I offended her by suggesting sex was in the air. I knew friends who did the "I'm getting booty" dance only to come home in defeat. We didn't have a money and fame but still...LOL!!!

Going into a bathroom with Ben doesn't mean a damn thing... especially if he was giving her shots all night. A drunk 20 year old in college is nothing to play around with when you have so much to lose.

If the defense parades 2-3 guys saying she is a psychotic lying nympho in front of the jury...it will effect the outcome. And comparing a girl inviting you to her dorm...and going into a bathroom with Ben is apples and oranges. What other reason would she go? Ben said hold my penis for me while I pee? Come on...no one is going to believe she didn't know what was up...she was just shocked when he wanted some. She knew the deal and it would be tough to convince a jury otherwise.

[papillon]

She will be motivated to settle this case out of court regardless of what she believes happened to her. I'm certain her attorney's are telling her that if this case goes to trial the defense is going to find every male (and female) sex partner she has had and determine if she's ever had sex in public prior to Ben. They'll want to know her sexual habits, how often, whether she gives oral, etc, etc.

If Ben's attorney were to offer her a substantial settlement it would be in her best interest to accept the payment and move on with life. She really doesn't want this to become a public display about sex life promiscuous or not. Clearly, she was expected to perform some sexual act on Ben in a public restroom, it's probably not the first time.

Pappy

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

She will be motivated to settle this case out of court regardless of what she believes happened to her. I'm certain her attorney's are telling her that if this case goes to trial the defense is going to find every male (and female) sex partner she has had and determine if she's ever had sex in public prior to Ben. They'll want to know her sexual habits, how often, whether she gives oral, etc, etc.

If Ben's attorney were to offer her a substantial settlement it would be in her best interest to accept the payment and move on with life. She really doesn't want this to become a public display about sex life promiscuous or not. Clearly, she was expected to perform some sexual act on Ben in a public restroom, it's probably not the first time.

Pappy

:Agree . Ben is not the only one who showed poor judgement in this case. At least, if I had a teen-age daughter who willingly went into unisex bathrooms with guys who post two bodyguards outside the door, I think I would not be happy with her decision making.

So she'll get rich, his reputation is smirched forever. Is that fair? I guess it depends what happened in the bathroom, which we'll probably never know. Is it surprising? No, and that's why it was very poor judgement on Ben's part to go in that bathroom with her. Even if it was just to tell knock-knock jokes.

Oops, I guess that wasn't the best example in this case!

[Shawn]

She will be motivated to settle this case out of court regardless of what she believes happened to her. I'm certain her attorney's are telling her that if this case goes to trial the defense is going to find every male (and female) sex partner she has had and determine if she's ever had sex in public prior to Ben. They'll want to know her sexual habits, how often, whether she gives oral, etc, etc.

If Ben's attorney were to offer her a substantial settlement it would be in her best interest to accept the payment and move on with life. She really doesn't want this to become a public display about sex life promiscuous or not. Clearly, she was expected to perform some sexual act on Ben in a public restroom, it's probably not the first time.

Pappy

:Agree . Ben is not the only one who showed poor judgement in this case. At least, if I had a teen-age daughter who willingly went into unisex bathrooms with guys who post two bodyguards outside the door, I think I would not be happy with her decision making.

So she'll get rich, his reputation is smirched forever. Is that fair? I guess it depends what happened in the bathroom, which we'll probably never know. Is it surprising? No, and that's why it was very poor judgement on Ben's part to go in that bathroom with her. Even if it was just to tell knock-knock jokes.

Oops, I guess that wasn't the best example in this case!

$$$

I couldn't agree more. And you hit on something...two people showed poor judgement here.

And for argument sake...there is alot of anger with Ben. I get that. He certainly showed poor judgement. But, what some forget is HE could be the victim. He could have been set up. Look at this tattoo biker chick trying to gain fame and make a quick buck by exposing Sandra Bullocks husband. Did he do wrong? Absolutely. But, the woman here is trying to cash in.

Ben has to realize this is the new game being played. It seems like every woman wants thier 15 min...their paid articles, books and settlements. Sleeping with a married, or even single celebrity has become the new lotto ticket.

[feltdizz]

Trying to get knocked up, famous, rich, etc... is nothing new. Some girls ONLY go after married men because they feel as though they are taking something away from a wife.

Sure the girl had poor judgment going into the bathroom with Ben... but who has more to lose? Going into a bathroom doesn't mean sex will happen. I have no idea what did happen but from a trial point of view it doesn't mean she wanted what she got.

To Shawn... I know a dorm room isn't a unisex bathroom. The point is an invitation to go somewhere private and do something sexual doesn't mean a girl can't change her mind. I'm talking from a court room POV... I have no idea if anything happened. She may say she was goingto the bathroom and Ben popped in. You even stated she may have gone in with intent but was shocked...

I think a jury only needs to hear how old she is, how star struck she was and how drunk she was... if Ben was knowingly giving shots to her he will get the worst of it.

We also have to remember this is small town Georgia...

[_SteeL_CurtaiN_]

Trying to get knocked up, famous, rich, etc... is nothing new. Some girls ONLY go after married men because they feel as though they are taking something away from a wife.

Sure the girl had poor judgment going into the bathroom with Ben... but who has more to lose? Going into a bathroom doesn't mean sex will happen. I have no idea what did happen but from a trial point of view it doesn't mean she wanted what she got.

To Shawn... I know a dorm room isn't a unisex bathroom. The point is an invitation to go somewhere private and do something sexual doesn't mean a girl can't change her mind. I'm talking from a court room POV... I have no idea if anything happened. She may say she was goingto the bathroom and Ben popped in. You even stated she may have gone in with intent but was shocked...

I think a jury only needs to hear how old she is, how star struck she was and how drunk she was... if Ben was knowingly giving shots to her he will get the worst of it.

We also have to remember this is small town Georgia...


While I agree that going into the bathroom does not remove a womans right to say no, but if they went together the expectation is nothing less than some kind of sexual contact. Maybe they are freaks who move brown with the ones they love :shock:

[BlackJackGold]

KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh reported that attorney Calvin Dunlap, who represents McNulty, said that Georgia authorities sought to interview his client. Dunlap told the station he only allows clients with pending litigation to discuss cases under extraordinary scenarios.

Dunlap, who is also looking into the Georgia case, did not rule out the possibility of making McNulty available to the GBI.

"They need information from us, and frankly we need information from them, so I will make a decision on how to proceed as the need arises," Dunlap told KDKA.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... -accuser/1 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/03/attorney-police-in-georgia-have-asked-to-interview-ben-roethlisbergers-nevada-accuser/1)



Looks like the GBI and the DA are ready to bring McNaulty into the mix.

[papillon]

KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh reported that attorney Calvin Dunlap, who represents McNulty, said that Georgia authorities sought to interview his client. Dunlap told the station he only allows clients with pending litigation to discuss cases under extraordinary scenarios.

Dunlap, who is also looking into the Georgia case, did not rule out the possibility of making McNulty available to the GBI.

"They need information from us, and frankly we need information from them, so I will make a decision on how to proceed as the need arises," Dunlap told KDKA.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... -accuser/1 (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/03/attorney-police-in-georgia-have-asked-to-interview-ben-roethlisbergers-nevada-accuser/1)



Looks like the GBI and the DA are ready to bring McNaulty into the mix.

Great, man, Ben has really caused a stir. The off season is as exciting as the regular season. :evil:

Pappy

[Shawn]

Would it be a complete investigation if they didn't question McNulty? If I was investigating I would want to talk to her. I would compare both girls stories and look for similarities. Especially, in behavior...statements made etc. That gives more validity to the Georgia girl if there are close similarities. I would assume this would be fairly standard.

[SteelAbility]

Would it be a complete investigation if they didn't question McNulty? If I was investigating I would want to talk to her. I would compare both girls stories and look for similarities. Especially, in behavior...statements made etc. That gives more validity to the Georgia girl if there are close similarities. I would assume this would be fairly standard.

Barring conspiracy ... :P