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hawaiiansteel
03-07-2010, 02:06 AM
Roethlisberger guilty of poor judgment

Sunday, March 07, 2010
Ron Cook - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


I have great faith in our legal system. It will determine if Roethlisberger should be charged -- let alone found guilty -- as the result of an alleged incident early Friday morning with a 20-year-old college student at a dance club in Milledgeville, Ga. Until the case is resolved, I'm presuming Roethlisberger's innocence. All of us are presumed innocent until proven guilty, right?

This is a great country, America.

But I don't have to wait for the legal proceedings to fully take their course for me to pronounce Roethlisberger guilty of poor judgment.

What was he doing at a club -- a college bar, by all accounts -- at 2 a.m.?

The man turned 28 Tuesday.

Please, spare me the e-mails that Roethlisberger is an adult, entitled to spend his time away from football as he wishes. I won't disagree. But I will argue that any public figure, if he is smart, freely gives up some of that right because he knows how much he has to lose if he ends up in the wrong place at the wrong time. There is only trouble out there at 2 a.m. That is especially true for someone with Roethlisberger's high-profile status.

I don't know what happened at the Capital City club in Milledgeville and won't even begin to speculate one way or the other. Investigators will determine what took place and decide if charges against Roethlisberger are warranted. But I do know that any big-time celebrity can't be too careful in public even if he is accompanied by friends, as Roethlisberger was Thursday night into Friday morning, according to Milledgeville police. There's always the chance of running into a guy who, perhaps bolstered by alcohol, is willing to challenge his toughness. There's also the chance of meeting a woman who is looking to capitalize financially on his fame.

Sadly, not everyone in this world has honorable intentions.

Other high-profile NFL quarterbacks seem to get that. When is the last time you heard of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Brett Favre or Drew Brees making the kind of headlines that Roethlisberger did Friday? The other sports stars in town also get it. When have the Penguins' Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin or Marc-Andre Fleury been linked to any kind of controversy? Or the Pirates' Andrew McCutchen, for that matter?

It's time Roethlisberger gets it, as well. It's time he grows up. He's no kid anymore. He needs to realize he's not just representing himself in public settings but also his family, the Steelers and his teammates.

I said it about kicker Jeff Reed last fall after he was involved in two alcohol-related incidents that resulted in police charges and I'll say it now about Roethlisberger, who has been accused of sexual assault for the second time in eight months: He has brought shame and embarrassment on the Steelers. We're talking about an organization that, in Roethlisberger's case, has invested $102 million in him and made him the face of the franchise. It's not hard to imagine the disappointment and anger that team president Art Rooney II and coach Mike Tomlin must have felt when they heard about Roethlisberger's situation Friday. It's also not hard to imagine that anger turning to fury if Roethlisberger is charged and then perhaps suspended by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell for conduct unbecoming of a pro football player. Goodell doesn't have to wait for a player's guilt or innocence to be determined to take such action.

But forget about what this incident could do to the Steelers. That seems irrelevant compared with what it means to Roethlisberger. Even if he isn't charged, he still loses. His reputation has taken another big hit. There will be damage even if he is cleared of all wrongdoing.

It was in July, right before the Steelers reported to training camp in Latrobe, that Roethlisberger first was accused of a sexual assault. A Nevada woman made the claim in a civil lawsuit, saying he raped her in July 2008 at a Lake Tahoe resort where he was appearing in a celebrity golf tournament. The woman worked as a hostess at the Nevada resort and said she didn't go to police after the alleged incident because she was "afraid of the consequences."

Roethlisberger showed up at the Steelers' South Side headquarters three days after the woman's allegation made national news and vehemently denied it, using words such as "false," "vicious," "outrageous" and "reckless."

The suit still has not been resolved.

"I would never, ever, force myself on a woman," Roethlisberger said that July day on the South Side.

Now, the man's word is being challenged again. This time, the woman immediately went to the police, then was treated at a local hospital.

The investigation continues.

No matter how that turns out, a lot of people won't ever look at Roethlisberger the same way again.

kindlecatsb'ng
03-07-2010, 10:08 AM
I think Ron Cook hit the nail on the head with his commentary. As a matter of fact, I just sent him an email saying that and adding that he forgot the fans in the list of people Ben disappointed with his recent debacle in Georgia.

It is time for him to emotionally grow up. If he cannot handle alcohol and nightclubbing, quit one or the other or both--OR DO IT IN PRIVATE. I am sure (from reading the stories here) that other QBs have issues off the field--and they stay out of the major headlines. These two incidents are not staying under the radar. This is the stuff that sales newspapers, magazines, and radio/TV air time. It gets exploited far more than the true facts of the matter; and, when the true facts come out, if it amounts to nothing, the stigma is still associated with him and indirectly, the team overall.

Let's pray for a good outcome for all.

JAR
03-07-2010, 10:39 AM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

stlrz d
03-07-2010, 10:48 AM
Ron Cook should live his own fscking life. He sounds pretty judgmental...wonder if he's a christian?

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-07-2010, 12:06 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

Yes, but neither of them got accused of RAPE (as the news media is putting it, including Fox News and ESPN), and neither of them have had legal issues involved with this.

So, in the eyes of the public, it is a huge difference between those guys and Ben. And since he's in the entertainment business, what the public thinks is a huge part of what is important here.

Life isn't fair, and it seems Ben hasn't figured that out yet.

stlrz d
03-07-2010, 12:08 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

Yes, but neither of them got accused of RAPE (as the news media is putting it, including Fox News and ESPN), and neither of them have had legal issues involved with this.

So, in the eyes of the public, it is a huge difference between those guys and Ben. And since he's in the entertainment business, what the public thinks is a huge part of what is important here.

Life isn't fair, and it seems Ben hasn't figured that out yet.

Because....

:?:

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-07-2010, 12:11 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

Yes, but neither of them got accused of RAPE (as the news media is putting it, including Fox News and ESPN), and neither of them have had legal issues involved with this.

So, in the eyes of the public, it is a huge difference between those guys and Ben. And since he's in the entertainment business, what the public thinks is a huge part of what is important here.

Life isn't fair, and it seems Ben hasn't figured that out yet.

Because....

:?:

Well, like I was trying to say, if someone is in the business of entertaining the public, then what the public thinks of them is very important. Ben is in the entertainment business, when it comes down to it.

stlrz d
03-07-2010, 12:13 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

Yes, but neither of them got accused of RAPE (as the news media is putting it, including Fox News and ESPN), and neither of them have had legal issues involved with this.

So, in the eyes of the public, it is a huge difference between those guys and Ben. And since he's in the entertainment business, what the public thinks is a huge part of what is important here.

Life isn't fair, and it seems Ben hasn't figured that out yet.

Because....

:?:

Well, like I was trying to say, if someone is in the business of entertaining the public, then what the public thinks of them is very important. Ben is in the entertainment business, when it comes down to it.

He's paid to play football. I don't care what people think of him.

I'll care if these allegations are true. But if they're false and people still want to think less of him I really don't care_one_bit.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-07-2010, 12:18 PM
[quote=JAR]Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

Yes, but neither of them got accused of RAPE (as the news media is putting it, including Fox News and ESPN), and neither of them have had legal issues involved with this.

So, in the eyes of the public, it is a huge difference between those guys and Ben. And since he's in the entertainment business, what the public thinks is a huge part of what is important here.

Life isn't fair, and it seems Ben hasn't figured that out yet.

Because....

:?:

Well, like I was trying to say, if someone is in the business of entertaining the public, then what the public thinks of them is very important. Ben is in the entertainment business, when it comes down to it.

He's paid to play football. I don't care what people think of him.

I'll care if these allegations are true. But if they're false and people still want to think less of him I really don't care_one_bit.[/quote:s7c8mtxa]

The NFL is an entertainment industry. It exists only to increase the wealth of its owners. The reason Goodell suspends/expels people is to keep the product "untainted", to keep ticket and advertising revenue flowing. You may not care what people think of him, but if it affects owner profits, you can be sure Goodell will - guilty or not - and he'll do what it takes to keep the $$ flowing.

Flasteel
03-07-2010, 12:26 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

And don't forget the Manning "back-alley BJ" story I have told on this board.

It's one thing to criticize Ben's decision-making skills but upholding these other guys as the epitome of righteous behavior is a poor choice.

feltdizz
03-07-2010, 12:35 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

And don't forget the Manning "back-alley BJ" story I have told on this board.

It's one thing to criticize Ben's decision-making skills but upholding these other guys as the epitome of righteous behavior is a poor choice.


It's not about the other guys KOBE!!! LOL!

Kobe Bryant says to the cops in Colorado..."I should have just paid her off like Shaq did"

It's not about the other QB's transgressions... while you know about Peyton and a few others do he was able to keep it out of the Newspapers.

JAR
03-07-2010, 12:54 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

Yes, but neither of them got accused of RAPE (as the news media is putting it, including Fox News and ESPN), and neither of them have had legal issues involved with this.

So, in the eyes of the public, it is a huge difference between those guys and Ben. And since he's in the entertainment business, what the public thinks is a huge part of what is important here.

Life isn't fair, and it seems Ben hasn't figured that out yet.

And Ben hasn't been accused of rape either. People NEED to learn the difference between rape and sexual assault.

feltdizz
03-07-2010, 12:59 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

Yes, but neither of them got accused of RAPE (as the news media is putting it, including Fox News and ESPN), and neither of them have had legal issues involved with this.

So, in the eyes of the public, it is a huge difference between those guys and Ben. And since he's in the entertainment business, what the public thinks is a huge part of what is important here.

Life isn't fair, and it seems Ben hasn't figured that out yet.

And Ben hasn't been accused of rape either. People NEED to learn the difference between rape and sexual assault.

NO.. People NEED to learn the difference between a quiet off season and a dramatic one.

PHUCK the technicalities and lawyer talk...

Having to discuss the difference between the 2 is 1 more reason why it really doesn't matter.

JAR
03-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Yeah, Farve just sat home and swallowed Vicodin like House, Brady knocked up chicks and then dumped them.......

Yes, but neither of them got accused of RAPE (as the news media is putting it, including Fox News and ESPN), and neither of them have had legal issues involved with this.

So, in the eyes of the public, it is a huge difference between those guys and Ben. And since he's in the entertainment business, what the public thinks is a huge part of what is important here.

Life isn't fair, and it seems Ben hasn't figured that out yet.

And Ben hasn't been accused of rape either. People NEED to learn the difference between rape and sexual assault.

NO.. People NEED to learn the difference between a quiet off season and a dramatic one.

PHUCK the technicalities and lawyer talk...

Having to discuss the difference between the 2 is 1 more reason why it really doesn't matter.

Yes it does make a difference, touching a girls boob or patting her on the butt is sexual assault, I hope I don't have to explain what rape is.

buckeyehoppy
03-07-2010, 01:11 PM
Well, like I was trying to say, if someone is in the business of entertaining the public, then what the public thinks of them is very important. Ben is in the entertainment business, when it comes down to it.

He's paid to play football. I don't care what people think of him.

I'll care if these allegations are true. But if they're false and people still want to think less of him I really don't care_one_bit.

Unfortunately, D, SASF went right to the heart of the matter. Benjamin is, first and foremost, an entertainer. And, as we both know, Good Ol' Rog will see it that way, too.

And it won't matter what we think or how little we care. The legal system will render its verdict in due time. The Court of Public Opinion, mostly comprised, sadly, of non-Steelers and non-football fans, is already rendering its verdict and it doesn't look good for someone they see as another entitled, rich, dumba$$ who has no judgment and
has been accused three times for his lack of judgment skills. At some point, it will attract more than its share of notice.

Now, Good Ol' Rog is in the position of being judge and jury of one of his league's star players. He doesn't have to wait for all the evidence to be in on a guy who is beginning to amass a rap sheet. Benjamin is affecting his image, the image of his team and the image of the league and the players therein. It's the last portion of that sentence where Rog will likely not be lenient and Art II is likely to adhere to Rog's verdict.

The place it concerns the average Steeler fan is whether Benjamin's 3rd incidence of bad judgment is a third strike or merely a foul tip. Knowing the way the NFL is with its image, I don't think Good Ol' Rog the home plate ump will think he got any wood on the ball.

feltdizz
03-07-2010, 01:12 PM
Yes it does make a difference, touching a girls boob or patting her on the butt is sexual assault, I hope I don't have to explain what rape is.

Newsflash.. America doesn't care about the difference.

Ben is a creepy sexual freak....

Good luck explaining this every time it comes up.

JAR
03-07-2010, 01:14 PM
Yes it does make a difference, touching a girls boob or patting her on the butt is sexual assault, I hope I don't have to explain what rape is.

Newsflash.. America doesn't care about the difference.

Ben is a creepy sexual freak....

Good luck explaining this every time it comes up.

He is? Proof please?

feltdizz
03-07-2010, 01:34 PM
Yes it does make a difference, touching a girls boob or patting her on the butt is sexual assault, I hope I don't have to explain what rape is.

Newsflash.. America doesn't care about the difference.

Ben is a creepy sexual freak....

Good luck explaining this every time it comes up.

He is? Proof please?

NO!!!!

In the public eye Ben is seen as a creepy sexual freak...

I have no idea if he is or not. LOL!!!

The headlines for this stuff are always larger then the retractions.

I don't see how fans can be so technical and law and order with Ben... it's not about the facts. Did anyone care about the facts with Michael Irvin or PacMan? Once a story gets "Legs" it takes a life of its own.

Actually.. The fact the question is even up for debate is the whole problem.

RuthlessBurgher
03-07-2010, 01:41 PM
Yes it does make a difference, touching a girls boob or patting her on the butt is sexual assault, I hope I don't have to explain what rape is.

Newsflash.. America doesn't care about the difference.

Ben is a creepy sexual freak....

Good luck explaining this every time it comes up.

He is? Proof please?

He is saying that while we will wait for proof to come out, most of the public has already come to the conclusion that he must be some sort of sexual deviant even if facts come out later that the woman in Tahoe made the whole thing up and that he accidentally bumped his elbow against this Georgia girl's chest, it won't make a difference to those who have already made up their minds on the basis of tabloid reports.

JAR
03-07-2010, 01:52 PM
Yes it does make a difference, touching a girls boob or patting her on the butt is sexual assault, I hope I don't have to explain what rape is.

Newsflash.. America doesn't care about the difference.

Ben is a creepy sexual freak....

Good luck explaining this every time it comes up.

He is? Proof please?

He is saying that while we will wait for proof to come out, most of the public has already come to the conclusion that he must be some sort of sexual deviant even if facts come out later that the woman in Tahoe made the whole thing up and that he accidentally bumped his elbow against this Georgia girl's chest, it won't make a difference to those who have already made up their minds on the basis of tabloid reports.

The haters already hated him anyway.

stlrz d
03-07-2010, 02:02 PM
Well, like I was trying to say, if someone is in the business of entertaining the public, then what the public thinks of them is very important. Ben is in the entertainment business, when it comes down to it.

He's paid to play football. I don't care what people think of him.

I'll care if these allegations are true. But if they're false and people still want to think less of him I really don't care_one_bit.

Unfortunately, D, SASF went right to the heart of the matter. Benjamin is, first and foremost, an entertainer. And, as we both know, Good Ol' Rog will see it that way, too.

And it won't matter what we think or how little we care. The legal system will render its verdict in due time. The Court of Public Opinion, mostly comprised, sadly, of non-Steelers and non-football fans, is already rendering its verdict and it doesn't look good for someone they see as another entitled, rich, dumba$$ who has no judgment and
has been accused three times for his lack of judgment skills. At some point, it will attract more than its share of notice.

Now, Good Ol' Rog is in the position of being judge and jury of one of his league's star players. He doesn't have to wait for all the evidence to be in on a guy who is beginning to amass a rap sheet. Benjamin is affecting his image, the image of his team and the image of the league and the players therein. It's the last portion of that sentence where Rog will likely not be lenient and Art II is likely to adhere to Rog's verdict.

The place it concerns the average Steeler fan is whether Benjamin's 3rd incidence of bad judgment is a third strike or merely a foul tip. Knowing the way the NFL is with its image, I don't think Good Ol' Rog the home plate ump will think he got any wood on the ball.

Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.

LouSteel
03-07-2010, 02:09 PM
The haters already hated him anyway.

We're not talking about the haters. It's all about image, and Ben's is pretty tarnished right now.

EVEN if Ben is completely exonerated, the general public will associate Ben with sexual deviancy, and the Steelers/NFL with harboring a deviant.

It's bad publicity for everyone involved, and it's sure to cost Ben in lost sponsorship dollars.

stlrz d
03-07-2010, 02:18 PM
The haters already hated him anyway.

We're not talking about the haters. It's all about image, and Ben's is pretty tarnished right now.

EVEN if Ben is completely exonerated, the general public will associate Ben with sexual deviancy, and the Steelers/NFL with harboring a deviant.

It's bad publicity for everyone involved, and it's sure to cost Ben in lost sponsorship dollars.

And that affects the fans how exactly?

BURGH86STEEL
03-07-2010, 02:39 PM
[quote=SanAntonioSteelerFan]Well, like I was trying to say, if someone is in the business of entertaining the public, then what the public thinks of them is very important. Ben is in the entertainment business, when it comes down to it.

He's paid to play football. I don't care what people think of him.

I'll care if these allegations are true. But if they're false and people still want to think less of him I really don't care_one_bit.

Unfortunately, D, SASF went right to the heart of the matter. Benjamin is, first and foremost, an entertainer. And, as we both know, Good Ol' Rog will see it that way, too.

And it won't matter what we think or how little we care. The legal system will render its verdict in due time. The Court of Public Opinion, mostly comprised, sadly, of non-Steelers and non-football fans, is already rendering its verdict and it doesn't look good for someone they see as another entitled, rich, dumba$$ who has no judgment and
has been accused three times for his lack of judgment skills. At some point, it will attract more than its share of notice.

Now, Good Ol' Rog is in the position of being judge and jury of one of his league's star players. He doesn't have to wait for all the evidence to be in on a guy who is beginning to amass a rap sheet. Benjamin is affecting his image, the image of his team and the image of the league and the players therein. It's the last portion of that sentence where Rog will likely not be lenient and Art II is likely to adhere to Rog's verdict.

The place it concerns the average Steeler fan is whether Benjamin's 3rd incidence of bad judgment is a third strike or merely a foul tip. Knowing the way the NFL is with its image, I don't think Good Ol' Rog the home plate ump will think he got any wood on the ball.

Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.[/quote:3d33ua4n]

Ben needs to change some things in the way he conducts his business with women. He also probably needs to reevaluate the places he likes to go and hang out. I believe these things were poor judgements on his part. He is not a college kid any more. He is a 28 year old man with responsibilities.

He is headed down the right track if his goal is to lose everything. Poor decisions that he makes will eventually catch up to him. I think that is peoples concern.

buckeyehoppy
03-07-2010, 02:43 PM
Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.

I see your point, D. It's not really fair that Benjamin can't just sling it with his buddies. OTOH... it was 2 a.m. How many good things happen in this world at 2 a.m.? Other than getting sleep, I'm pretty sure the negative outweighs the positive in this case, even if nothing more is happening than dudes getting one more round at last call.

With Good Ol' Rog and the league, I can't be as sure. I'm sure he will hear from sponsors who will also want details even if it isn't their business. I'm sure Rog will talk with Art II and determine that the team should handle this internally, but with the league also signing off on the any remedy that the Steelers come up with.

Pro sports are funny because they don't need to respect the verdict of a jury to mete out their own justice. Even the Black Sox were acquitted... but Kenesaw Mountain Landis didn't see it that way and none of those guys ever played professional ball again. That, fortunately, won't happen here.

But what if the league is not convinced that Ben's judgment skills won't improve unless they dole out a penalty that hurts both him AND his team? Then what happens? Does that mean that we don't have Benjamin for 8 games? Or a whole season? Let's be honest... that could happen here. Good Ol' Rog doesn't need to have all the evidence to sit as judge and jury on Benjamin's horrid judgment. All he has to look at is what has already transpired. I'm sure he has already discussed this with Art II. I'm sure the Steelers and the league are already looking at this as a serious matter, whether anything else comes of it or not.

JAR
03-07-2010, 03:00 PM
Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.

I see your point, D. It's not really fair that Benjamin can't just sling it with his buddies. OTOH... it was 2 a.m. How many good things happen in this world at 2 a.m.? Other than getting sleep, I'm pretty sure the negative outweighs the positive in this case, even if nothing more is happening than dudes getting one more round at last call.

With Good Ol' Rog and the league, I can't be as sure. I'm sure he will hear from sponsors who will also want details even if it isn't their business. I'm sure Rog will talk with Art II and determine that the team should handle this internally, but with the league also signing off on the any remedy that the Steelers come up with.

Pro sports are funny because they don't need to respect the verdict of a jury to mete out their own justice. Even the Black Sox were acquitted... but Kenesaw Mountain Landis didn't see it that way and none of those guys ever played professional ball again. That, fortunately, won't happen here.

But what if the league is not convinced that Ben's judgment skills won't improve unless they dole out a penalty that hurts both him AND his team? Then what happens? Does that mean that we don't have Benjamin for 8 games? Or a whole season? Let's be honest... that could happen here. Good Ol' Rog doesn't need to have all the evidence to sit as judge and jury on Benjamin's horrid judgment. All he has to look at is what has already transpired. I'm sure he has already discussed this with Art II. I'm sure the Steelers and the league are already looking at this as a serious matter, whether anything else comes of it or not.

What if he was just hanging in a bar and he is guilty of nothing? Should the league and the Steelers still punish him because someone made up false accusations? What is wrong with going out to a bar with friends to celebrate your birthday?

BURGH86STEEL
03-07-2010, 03:04 PM
Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.

I see your point, D. It's not really fair that Benjamin can't just sling it with his buddies. OTOH... it was 2 a.m. How many good things happen in this world at 2 a.m.? Other than getting sleep, I'm pretty sure the negative outweighs the positive in this case, even if nothing more is happening than dudes getting one more round at last call.

With Good Ol' Rog and the league, I can't be as sure. I'm sure he will hear from sponsors who will also want details even if it isn't their business. I'm sure Rog will talk with Art II and determine that the team should handle this internally, but with the league also signing off on the any remedy that the Steelers come up with.

Pro sports are funny because they don't need to respect the verdict of a jury to mete out their own justice. Even the Black Sox were acquitted... but Kenesaw Mountain Landis didn't see it that way and none of those guys ever played professional ball again. That, fortunately, won't happen here.

But what if the league is not convinced that Ben's judgment skills won't improve unless they dole out a penalty that hurts both him AND his team? Then what happens? Does that mean that we don't have Benjamin for 8 games? Or a whole season? Let's be honest... that could happen here. Good Ol' Rog doesn't need to have all the evidence to sit as judge and jury on Benjamin's horrid judgment. All he has to look at is what has already transpired. I'm sure he has already discussed this with Art II. I'm sure the Steelers and the league are already looking at this as a serious matter, whether anything else comes of it or not.

What if he was just hanging in a bar and he is guilty of nothing? Should the league and the Steelers still punish him because someone made up false accusations? What is wrong with going out to a bar with friends to celebrate your birthday?

There is nothing wrong with going to a bar. He can make better decisions in regards to the places he hangs. He can also be more selective about the people he lets into his company.

stlrz d
03-07-2010, 03:07 PM
Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.

I see your point, D. It's not really fair that Benjamin can't just sling it with his buddies. OTOH... it was 2 a.m. How many good things happen in this world at 2 a.m.? Other than getting sleep, I'm pretty sure the negative outweighs the positive in this case, even if nothing more is happening than dudes getting one more round at last call.

With Good Ol' Rog and the league, I can't be as sure. I'm sure he will hear from sponsors who will also want details even if it isn't their business. I'm sure Rog will talk with Art II and determine that the team should handle this internally, but with the league also signing off on the any remedy that the Steelers come up with.

Pro sports are funny because they don't need to respect the verdict of a jury to mete out their own justice. Even the Black Sox were acquitted... but Kenesaw Mountain Landis didn't see it that way and none of those guys ever played professional ball again. That, fortunately, won't happen here.

But what if the league is not convinced that Ben's judgment skills won't improve unless they dole out a penalty that hurts both him AND his team? Then what happens? Does that mean that we don't have Benjamin for 8 games? Or a whole season? Let's be honest... that could happen here. Good Ol' Rog doesn't need to have all the evidence to sit as judge and jury on Benjamin's horrid judgment. All he has to look at is what has already transpired. I'm sure he has already discussed this with Art II. I'm sure the Steelers and the league are already looking at this as a serious matter, whether anything else comes of it or not.

What if he was just hanging in a bar and he is guilty of nothing? Should the league and the Steelers still punish him because someone made up false accusations? What is wrong with going out to a bar with friends to celebrate your birthday?

There is nothing wrong with going to a bar. He can make better decisions in regards to the places he hangs. He can also be more selective about the people he lets into his company.

You weren't there. You don't know what he did or didn't do. Who he was or wasn't near.

JAR
03-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.

I see your point, D. It's not really fair that Benjamin can't just sling it with his buddies. OTOH... it was 2 a.m. How many good things happen in this world at 2 a.m.? Other than getting sleep, I'm pretty sure the negative outweighs the positive in this case, even if nothing more is happening than dudes getting one more round at last call.

With Good Ol' Rog and the league, I can't be as sure. I'm sure he will hear from sponsors who will also want details even if it isn't their business. I'm sure Rog will talk with Art II and determine that the team should handle this internally, but with the league also signing off on the any remedy that the Steelers come up with.

Pro sports are funny because they don't need to respect the verdict of a jury to mete out their own justice. Even the Black Sox were acquitted... but Kenesaw Mountain Landis didn't see it that way and none of those guys ever played professional ball again. That, fortunately, won't happen here.

But what if the league is not convinced that Ben's judgment skills won't improve unless they dole out a penalty that hurts both him AND his team? Then what happens? Does that mean that we don't have Benjamin for 8 games? Or a whole season? Let's be honest... that could happen here. Good Ol' Rog doesn't need to have all the evidence to sit as judge and jury on Benjamin's horrid judgment. All he has to look at is what has already transpired. I'm sure he has already discussed this with Art II. I'm sure the Steelers and the league are already looking at this as a serious matter, whether anything else comes of it or not.

What if he was just hanging in a bar and he is guilty of nothing? Should the league and the Steelers still punish him because someone made up false accusations? What is wrong with going out to a bar with friends to celebrate your birthday?

There is nothing wrong with going to a bar. He can make better decisions in regards to the places he hangs. He can also be more selective about the people he lets into his company.

Yes, strip clubs would be a much better place for Ben to hang out.
Yes, he'd be much better off at strips clubs.

BURGH86STEEL
03-07-2010, 03:43 PM
Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.

I see your point, D. It's not really fair that Benjamin can't just sling it with his buddies. OTOH... it was 2 a.m. How many good things happen in this world at 2 a.m.? Other than getting sleep, I'm pretty sure the negative outweighs the positive in this case, even if nothing more is happening than dudes getting one more round at last call.

With Good Ol' Rog and the league, I can't be as sure. I'm sure he will hear from sponsors who will also want details even if it isn't their business. I'm sure Rog will talk with Art II and determine that the team should handle this internally, but with the league also signing off on the any remedy that the Steelers come up with.

Pro sports are funny because they don't need to respect the verdict of a jury to mete out their own justice. Even the Black Sox were acquitted... but Kenesaw Mountain Landis didn't see it that way and none of those guys ever played professional ball again. That, fortunately, won't happen here.

But what if the league is not convinced that Ben's judgment skills won't improve unless they dole out a penalty that hurts both him AND his team? Then what happens? Does that mean that we don't have Benjamin for 8 games? Or a whole season? Let's be honest... that could happen here. Good Ol' Rog doesn't need to have all the evidence to sit as judge and jury on Benjamin's horrid judgment. All he has to look at is what has already transpired. I'm sure he has already discussed this with Art II. I'm sure the Steelers and the league are already looking at this as a serious matter, whether anything else comes of it or not.

What if he was just hanging in a bar and he is guilty of nothing? Should the league and the Steelers still punish him because someone made up false accusations? What is wrong with going out to a bar with friends to celebrate your birthday?

There is nothing wrong with going to a bar. He can make better decisions in regards to the places he hangs. He can also be more selective about the people he lets into his company.

Yes, strip clubs would be a much better place for Ben to hang out.
Yes, he'd be much better off at strips clubs.

Did anyone say anything about strip clubs? Believe it or not, there is a difference in bars and the clientele they serve.

BURGH86STEEL
03-07-2010, 04:00 PM
[quote="stlrz d":2qw7mjs1]Guess that's where I differ from most then. I don't see Ben going to a bar with friends AND body guards as poor judgment.

Now if he did that and assaulted some chick then I see that as poor judgment.

I don't believe Goodell will take action unless the allegations have merit.

There's not point in me continuing to reiterate my point. People here are going to judge because they somehow feel that this is a reflection on them for being a fan of the Steelers. It is not a reflection on them. They aren't Ben.

If the allegations prove to be true then I'll be the first to admit that I was mistaken in my opinions, but for now I stand behind my point that the details have not come out, none of us were there and none of us know what happened...which means we have no right to judge the behavior or actions of someone we don't know.

I see your point, D. It's not really fair that Benjamin can't just sling it with his buddies. OTOH... it was 2 a.m. How many good things happen in this world at 2 a.m.? Other than getting sleep, I'm pretty sure the negative outweighs the positive in this case, even if nothing more is happening than dudes getting one more round at last call.

With Good Ol' Rog and the league, I can't be as sure. I'm sure he will hear from sponsors who will also want details even if it isn't their business. I'm sure Rog will talk with Art II and determine that the team should handle this internally, but with the league also signing off on the any remedy that the Steelers come up with.

Pro sports are funny because they don't need to respect the verdict of a jury to mete out their own justice. Even the Black Sox were acquitted... but Kenesaw Mountain Landis didn't see it that way and none of those guys ever played professional ball again. That, fortunately, won't happen here.

But what if the league is not convinced that Ben's judgment skills won't improve unless they dole out a penalty that hurts both him AND his team? Then what happens? Does that mean that we don't have Benjamin for 8 games? Or a whole season? Let's be honest... that could happen here. Good Ol' Rog doesn't need to have all the evidence to sit as judge and jury on Benjamin's horrid judgment. All he has to look at is what has already transpired. I'm sure he has already discussed this with Art II. I'm sure the Steelers and the league are already looking at this as a serious matter, whether anything else comes of it or not.

What if he was just hanging in a bar and he is guilty of nothing? Should the league and the Steelers still punish him because someone made up false accusations? What is wrong with going out to a bar with friends to celebrate your birthday?

There is nothing wrong with going to a bar. He can make better decisions in regards to the places he hangs. He can also be more selective about the people he lets into his company.

You weren't there. You don't know what he did or didn't do. Who he was or wasn't near.[/quote:2qw7mjs1]

No I was not there. I am not accusing Ben of anything. What we all know is Ben, other people, and the accuser were there.

My point, as well as several other people is that Ben put himself in that position/situation in the first place. Maybe you think it's ok for a high profile person to hang out in bars at 2 a.m. There are a lot of people on this board that think it is a questionable decision. That DECISION is costing him in the minds of people. It might be a decision that costs him everything.