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View Full Version : All that wasted money!



Djfan
03-04-2010, 10:27 AM
I just don't understand some roster moves. Why are we spending money on the likes of Spaeth and Sweed when there are pressing needs. My guess is that the money these two lock up can be put towards a couple of above average CBs or a dominant lineman.

I'm not the capologist that some of you are, but this is good money for what return?

There has to be more guys on this roster who are not giving a good ROI.

I just don't get it.

Oviedo
03-04-2010, 10:43 AM
I just don't understand some roster moves. Why are we spending money on the likes of Spaeth and Sweed when there are pressing needs. My guess is that the money these two lock up can be put towards a couple of above average CBs or a dominant lineman.

I'm not the capologist that some of you are, but this is good money for what return?

There has to be more guys on this roster who are not giving a good ROI.

I just don't get it.

We are tendering them because if you just let them walk you have holes that you have fill via the draft or free agency. Either way you are spending money and by tendering them you may get a draft pick if someone else signs them.

For all the grief that Spaeth gets he is a serviceable second TE which is what he is asked to do. he is not a great blocker byt he is adequete. Not his fault that ben doesn't play to his stregth and throw him the ball.

Sweed is still here because if he gets it together he has a very high ceiling. He is not costimng the team that much and the potential reward is very great.

You will not get a couple of adequete (we don't need adequte) CB ond will not get close to a dominant lineman for the money you pay Spaeth or Sweed.

Djfan
03-04-2010, 10:49 AM
You will not get a couple of adequete (we don't need adequte) CB ond will not get close to a dominant lineman for the money you pay Spaeth or Sweed.

I mean the money they make combined.

OK, so not dominant, but good back up? How about the CBs? I guess the question is tough without the actual figures, but the idea is there. Sweed isn't cheap, and Spaeth doesn't add much to the winning strength.

Upside shouldn't cost you the money that could go to a person who is producing now. Wallace is a great example. We pay Sweed more, right? I just don't get it.

D Rock
03-04-2010, 11:53 AM
This team has plenty of back-up caliber O-Linemen. My rough estimate would put the number somewhere around 11 of them. Sweed+Spaeth come no where near the money needed to get a quality starter, which is what this team needs. However...with no cap...who really cares about the savings. Just go get the players.

I can understand why the Steelers are imposing a cap on themselves. It's smart business to not dig yourself into a hole should the cap return in a year or two. However, with a lockout year looming and a TON of older players on this team making some big money, I think spending some big-time bank on a really good young lineman or corner is totally worth it. By the time the lockout is over and a cap structure is back in place, after not having played for a year, those old guys aren't going to be very useful. Cut three or four of them and the cap is no longer an issue.

With such an uncertain future I'd lay everything on the line to win a Super Bowl this year and figure the rest out when you get there.

steelblood
03-04-2010, 12:20 PM
This team has plenty of back-up caliber O-Linemen. My rough estimate would put the number somewhere around 11 of them. Sweed+Spaeth come no where near the money needed to get a quality starter, which is what this team needs. However...with no cap...who really cares about the savings. Just go get the players.

I can understand why the Steelers are imposing a cap on themselves. It's smart business to not dig yourself into a hole should the cap return in a year or two. However, with a lockout year looming and a TON of older players on this team making some big money, I think spending some big-time bank on a really good young lineman or corner is totally worth it. By the time the lockout is over and a cap structure is back in place, after not having played for a year, those old guys aren't going to be very useful. Cut three or four of them and the cap is no longer an issue.

With such an uncertain future I'd lay everything on the line to win a Super Bowl this year and figure the rest out when you get there.

Sweed and Spaeth will make a total of about 2 million this season. 2 million won't get you one decent player on the FA market, certainly not a dominant linemen.

aggiebones
03-04-2010, 02:01 PM
This is tiny money for these players who aren't guaranteed a roster spot. The 53 man roster spots are more valuable to the Steelers than the $2M.

D Rock
03-04-2010, 07:17 PM
This team has plenty of back-up caliber O-Linemen. My rough estimate would put the number somewhere around 11 of them. Sweed+Spaeth come no where near the money needed to get a quality starter, which is what this team needs. However...with no cap...who really cares about the savings. Just go get the players.

I can understand why the Steelers are imposing a cap on themselves. It's smart business to not dig yourself into a hole should the cap return in a year or two. However, with a lockout year looming and a TON of older players on this team making some big money, I think spending some big-time bank on a really good young lineman or corner is totally worth it. By the time the lockout is over and a cap structure is back in place, after not having played for a year, those old guys aren't going to be very useful. Cut three or four of them and the cap is no longer an issue.

With such an uncertain future I'd lay everything on the line to win a Super Bowl this year and figure the rest out when you get there.

Sweed and Spaeth will make a total of about 2 million this season. 2 million won't get you one decent player on the FA market, certainly not a dominant linemen.

Isn't that pretty much just what I said?

The money potentially saved from Sweed and Spaeth doesn't mean jack squat. There's no salary cap this year. Money saved from anybody being cut doesn't matter. If a player can help the team for the next few years go pay the man and make a run at a Super Bowl before the lockout happens and all of the old players on the roster become older and useless after a year without games.

steelblood
03-04-2010, 07:21 PM
[quote="D Rock":oje8184o]This team has plenty of back-up caliber O-Linemen. My rough estimate would put the number somewhere around 11 of them. Sweed+Spaeth come no where near the money needed to get a quality starter, which is what this team needs. However...with no cap...who really cares about the savings. Just go get the players.

I can understand why the Steelers are imposing a cap on themselves. It's smart business to not dig yourself into a hole should the cap return in a year or two. However, with a lockout year looming and a TON of older players on this team making some big money, I think spending some big-time bank on a really good young lineman or corner is totally worth it. By the time the lockout is over and a cap structure is back in place, after not having played for a year, those old guys aren't going to be very useful. Cut three or four of them and the cap is no longer an issue.

With such an uncertain future I'd lay everything on the line to win a Super Bowl this year and figure the rest out when you get there.

Sweed and Spaeth will make a total of about 2 million this season. 2 million won't get you one decent player on the FA market, certainly not a dominant linemen.

Isn't that pretty much just what I said?

The money potentially saved from Sweed and Spaeth doesn't mean jack squat. There's no salary cap this year. Money saved from anybody being cut doesn't matter. If a player can help the team for the next few years go pay the man and make a run at a Super Bowl before the lockout happens and all of the old players on the roster become older and useless after a year without games.[/quote:oje8184o]

yes. it is. i meant to quote djfan. sorry.

Djfan
03-05-2010, 10:42 AM
yes. it is. i meant to quote djfan. sorry.


I'll take the intended quote.

I have long said that you all know more than me on the salaries, etc., but I thought Sweed made a lot more than that. If not, I guess I understand.

It just irks that guys like Wallace get lesser money (now I'm not sure if that's true) and produce, while some monied guys contribute nothing.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
03-05-2010, 10:44 AM
Anyone know what Sweed is doing in the off-season, where he's living, is he working out, etc.?

RuthlessBurgher
03-06-2010, 12:44 AM
yes. it is. i meant to quote djfan. sorry.


I'll take the intended quote.

I have long said that you all know more than me on the salaries, etc., but I thought Sweed made a lot more than that. If not, I guess I understand.

It just irks that guys like Wallace get lesser money (now I'm not sure if that's true) and produce, while some monied guys contribute nothing.

Rookie salaries are essentially slotted based on draft positon (actually, the signing bonus is based on draft position...rookies tend to make minimum yearly salaries). So, yes, a 3rd rounder like Wallace makes less than a 2nd rounder like Sweed, regardless of actual on-field production. And a 2nd rounder like Woodley makes less than a 1st rounder like Timmons, even though Woodley made a Pro Bowl and Timmons is not on that level. The first 4 years of a player's career is basically an audition to determine how much they can get in the all-important second contract. In the mean time, all of the guys working on their initial rookie contract are considered to be cheap labor by comparison to the vast majority of their veteran counterparts.

Mister Pittsburgh
03-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Part of the problem is we have drafted somewhat poorly this past half decade which has forced the Steelers to resign players over 30 which is against their normal mode of operation.

And, I wouldn't just look at the 2 or 3 million you could save by replacing Spaeth & Sweed and say you couldn't get a quality player for that much. I would look at it like you could take that 2 or 3 million saved from those two being replaced, and add that to the 4 million or whatever it was you would of been comfortable paying Clark, giving you 6 or 7 million to find a starting FS......or 6 or 7 million to upgrade another position.

NorthCoast
03-06-2010, 10:08 AM
yes. it is. i meant to quote djfan. sorry.


I'll take the intended quote.

I have long said that you all know more than me on the salaries, etc., but I thought Sweed made a lot more than that. If not, I guess I understand.

It just irks that guys like Wallace get lesser money (now I'm not sure if that's true) and produce, while some monied guys contribute nothing.

Rookie salaries are essentially slotted based on draft positon (actually, the signing bonus is based on draft position...rookies tend to make minimum yearly salaries). So, yes, a 3rd rounder like Wallace makes less than a 2nd rounder like Sweed, regardless of actual on-field production. And a 2nd rounder like Woodley makes less than a 1st rounder like Timmons, even though Woodley made a Pro Bowl and Timmons is not on that level. The first 4 years of a player's career is basically an audition to determine how much they can get in the all-important second contract. In the mean time, all of the guys working on their initial rookie contract are considered to be cheap labor by comparison to the vast majority of their veteran counterparts.

This is one of the reasons the Steelers like to build through the draft. The mix of veteran and young talent + the mix of veteran and young salaries makes for a very powerful and consistent combination to a winning football team. The Snyder's of the league just seem to have a very hard time comprehending this and end up way overpaying FAs and but leave themselves woefully weak in key positions.

Mister Pittsburgh
03-06-2010, 10:23 AM
yes. it is. i meant to quote djfan. sorry.


I'll take the intended quote.

I have long said that you all know more than me on the salaries, etc., but I thought Sweed made a lot more than that. If not, I guess I understand.

It just irks that guys like Wallace get lesser money (now I'm not sure if that's true) and produce, while some monied guys contribute nothing.

Rookie salaries are essentially slotted based on draft positon (actually, the signing bonus is based on draft position...rookies tend to make minimum yearly salaries). So, yes, a 3rd rounder like Wallace makes less than a 2nd rounder like Sweed, regardless of actual on-field production. And a 2nd rounder like Woodley makes less than a 1st rounder like Timmons, even though Woodley made a Pro Bowl and Timmons is not on that level. The first 4 years of a player's career is basically an audition to determine how much they can get in the all-important second contract. In the mean time, all of the guys working on their initial rookie contract are considered to be cheap labor by comparison to the vast majority of their veteran counterparts.

This is one of the reasons the Steelers like to build through the draft. The mix of veteran and young talent + the mix of veteran and young salaries makes for a very powerful and consistent combination to a winning football team. The Snyder's of the league just seem to have a very hard time comprehending this and end up way overpaying FAs and but leave themselves woefully weak in key positions.

This also touches upon my above post. The Steelers typically let their 30+ players walk when they become FA's and replace them with draft picks. The past few years, however, we have been resigning our 30+ year old players which hurts you when you go to resign your younger players that are hitting their time to get big contracts like Timmons, Woodley, Holmes, Colon, etc and filling holes via FA for positions like backup S, RB, Nickel, Backup ILB, Backup OLB. So it isn't just signing FA's from outside your organization that can hurt you. Signing those on the downside of their career from your own team can also hurt you. Especially while working with like a fifth of your cap room going to one player (Ben). Steelers don't have much experience building a team while dealing with a franchise QB's salary cap hit.

RuthlessBurgher
03-06-2010, 11:58 PM
A QB taking up a fifth of the cap? Last I checked, Ben's deal was paying him in the neighborhood of $12 million per, and the last cap was over $120 million. I don't have a Ph.D in mathematics or anything, but that appears to be more like a tenth to me.