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View Full Version : Joe Haden runs a slow 40: 4.57, 4.60 (unofficial)



PSU_dropout43
03-02-2010, 01:06 PM
Posted by Michael David Smith

The defensive backs are running Tuesday morning at the NFL scouting combine, and the top two players in the position group had very different results in the 40-yard dash.

Tennessee's Eric Berry is in the process of solidifying his status as the top safety prospect with a good workout that included 40 times of 4.46 and 4.40 seconds. But Florida's Joe Haden, who entered the combine widely regarded as the top cornerback prospect, ran disappointing times of 4.57 and 4.60 seconds.

Those 40 times are unofficial, and unofficial times deserve plenty of scrutiny. But while we have Berry going fourth overall and Haden going fifth in our mock draft, Berry looked a lot more like a Top 5 pick on Tuesday morning than Haden did.

NFL Network analyst Deion Sanders, who knows a little something about playing defensive back and about running fast 40-yard dashes, said Haden looked uncomfortable from the beginning and even suggested that Haden might be getting some coaching that has made him self-conscious about his running technique.

"First of all, it was a horrible stance," Sanders said of Haden. "I don't know what he's being taught -- sometimes you've just got to let a guy run. Tweak him a little bit but don't try to change everything."

Sanders is right: When wearing a helmet and shoulder pads, Haden looks like a guy who has all the speed he needs. But when wearing his underwear Tuesday morning, Haden didn't look like an elite prospect.

After Haden's second 40, Sanders said, "Someone text this man to shut him down."

Oviedo
03-02-2010, 01:10 PM
Told you guys!!!! When will you listen? Take the same advice about Pouncey. Overrated!!!!

It is the "Larry Foote Effect" at Florida. You are surrounded by so many good players it makes you look better than you really are or ever was.

steelernation77
03-02-2010, 01:55 PM
Haden did look like clearly the best CB in drills FWIW. He's very agile.

birtikidis
03-02-2010, 02:10 PM
Haden has been a stud at Florida since his freshman year. i don't give a crap what a 40 time says, when you play as well as he did for as long as he did... he's probably a really good players.

papillon
03-02-2010, 02:24 PM
Told you guys!!!! When will you listen? Take the same advice about Pouncey. Overrated!!!!

It is the "Larry Foote Effect" at Florida. You are surrounded by so many good players it makes you look better than you really are or ever was.

So, all the NFL scouts and talent evaluators are wrong about this kid, because in a 40 yard dash in shorts and T-shirt and he'd lose a race to Mike Wallace (One of the fastest guys in the NFL) by less than half a step or the blink of an eye? If I were a scout or coach at the combine I'd only be there to interview the players and evaluate them mentally. I wouldn't care what they do in shorts and a T-shirt; I'd find that out by watching them on film over the course of a career and season.

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
03-02-2010, 02:32 PM
I hope that 40 time causes his stock to plummet...all the way down to #18, where I'd be ecstatic to draft the top CB. :)

papillon
03-02-2010, 02:39 PM
I hope that 40 time causes his stock to plummet...all the way down to #18, where I'd be ecstatic to draft the top CB. :)

No Ruth, he'd be too slow, let him keep sliding, I'm sure we could get real value by drafting him in the second round. Don't overdraft a slow cornerback is rule #1. :P

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
03-03-2010, 01:41 AM
I hope that 40 time causes his stock to plummet...all the way down to #18, where I'd be ecstatic to draft the top CB. :)

No Ruth, he'd be too slow, let him keep sliding, I'm sure we could get real value by drafting him in the second round. Don't overdraft a slow cornerback is rule #1. :P

Pappy

He's not slow. When does a CB ever have to run 40 yards in a straight line out of a sprinter's stance in his underwear? Once. At the combine. Maybe twice. At his Pro Day. That's it. Ever. When he is actually on the field in a game situation, wearing full pads, he must be able to backpedal, turn his hips, make a play on the ball, etc. A 40 time shows none of these skills. A slow number in a track skill is supposed to drop a top 10 football player into the second round? That's craziness. Football skills are most important...track skills fall way down the totem pole when evaluating potential NFL players (unless of course, your name is Al Davis...and we all know how swimmingly that strategy has worked out for him, right?)

All this shows is that Haden has poor technique to be sprinter, but being a good sprinter does not equate to being a good football player, or else an NFL team would have offered Usain Bolt a huge sum of money a long time ago (actually, I'd be surprised if Al Davis has not done this). Bolt would have difficulty turning his hips and covering (something he never has to do on the track), just like Haden had difficulty coming out of the blocks (something he never has to do on the football field).

hawaiiansteel
03-03-2010, 02:07 AM
Haden, Mays reminds us again to beware the cult of the fake 40 time

By Matt Hinton - Tue Mar 02, 2010


I got a little mileage last spring out of Florida's fake 40 board, which ludicrously claimed that four Gators ran faster 40 times during winter workouts than any single player at last year's NFL combine. In the wake of cornerback Joe Haden's disappointing sprint Tuesday at this year's edition of the meat market, I've been encouraged via email to dig it up for old time's sake:

At Florida, Haden was listed at 4.33, significantly faster than any cornerback in last year's combine; coming into Tuesday's proceedings as a virtual lock to go in the top 10 of next month's draft, he was expected to run in the low 4.4 range, which still would have been faster than any cornerback actually posted Tuesday (the fastest official time by any corner in Indy this morning was 4.45, posted by Wake Forest's Brandon Ghee). Haden's times: 4.57 on the first run, 4.60 on the second, immediately putting his high-first-round status in jeopardy. (Those are unofficial times off hand-held watches, which typically get slower when "official" electronic times comes in.) Suddenly, Haden's not just the All-American and top prospect scouts saw on film -- there's a number that says he's kind of slow. Said one scout on the NFL Network, "People are going to have a hard time getting that 4.57 out of their head with a top-10 corner."

On the opposite end of the spectrum, 230-pound USC safety Taylor Mays lit up the stopwatches with an unreal 4.24:

If that time had stood, it would have tied East Carolina's Chris Johnson as the fastest recorded time in combine history and solidified Mays as the freakiest of all freaks who walked through the door this year or almost any other. Of course, it didn't stand: When the electronic numbers came in, his official time was 4.43 -- still the fastest time among all DBs on hand, but nowhere near the eye-popping reports off the stopwatches.

Trindon Holliday's initially record-breaking run on Sunday met the same fate, when the diminutive LSU return man/NCAA track champion's best time was downgraded from an absurd 4.22 on the stopwatches to a slightly less absurd 4.34 on the books.

What do the substantial differences in those numbers say about the potential of Joe Haden and Taylor Mays as pro prospects? Probably nothing, especially relative to the importance they may play in their actual draft status (which will likely be smaller than the initial reactions suggest).

And there's certainly no reason to believe these tedious, minute differences among elite athletes translate to any significant difference on the field.

NJ-STEELER
03-03-2010, 02:16 AM
any chance haden ran a bit slower so he slips past the browns?



pretty smart guy

papillon
03-03-2010, 04:29 AM
I hope that 40 time causes his stock to plummet...all the way down to #18, where I'd be ecstatic to draft the top CB. :)

No Ruth, he'd be too slow, let him keep sliding, I'm sure we could get real value by drafting him in the second round. Don't overdraft a slow cornerback is rule #1. :P

Pappy

He's not slow. When does a CB ever have to run 40 yards in a straight line out of a sprinter's stance in his underwear? Once. At the combine. Maybe twice. At his Pro Day. That's it. Ever. When he is actually on the field in a game situation, wearing full pads, he must be able to backpedal, turn his hips, make a play on the ball, etc. A 40 time shows none of these skills. A slow number in a track skill is supposed to drop a top 10 football player into the second round? That's craziness. Football skills are most important...track skills fall way down the totem pole when evaluating potential NFL players (unless of course, your name is Al Davis...and we all know how swimmingly that strategy has worked out for him, right?)

All this shows is that Haden has poor technique to be sprinter, but being a good sprinter does not equate to being a good football player, or else an NFL team would have offered Usain Bolt a huge sum of money a long time ago (actually, I'd be surprised if Al Davis has not done this). Bolt would have difficulty turning his hips and covering (something he never has to do on the track), just like Haden had difficulty coming out of the blocks (something he never has to do on the football field).

Clearly, my :P needed to be preceded by and the style markers. I've been saying this exact same thing in thread after thread after thread. If I were a scout or coach I'd have a passing interest in the decathlon that the players go through at the combine; but, I'd be extremely interested in interviewing them to determine what type of person they are, their mental agility, respect for the game, character, etc. It's really the only chance a team will get to know a player to whom they are going to pay a large sum of money. The football talent has already been determined.

Nine out 10 draft picks that are busts are busts because they can't handle the mental aspect of the game; the other bust is due to injury, never because they don't know how to play football. The stopwatch is the devil that has lead many teams down a path of poor decision making and ultimately into the NFL bottom feeders.


Pappy

Lebsteel
03-03-2010, 09:30 AM
I hope that 40 time causes his stock to plummet...all the way down to #18, where I'd be ecstatic to draft the top CB. :)

No Ruth, he'd be too slow, let him keep sliding, I'm sure we could get real value by drafting him in the second round. Don't overdraft a slow cornerback is rule #1. :P

Pappy

He's not slow. When does a CB ever have to run 40 yards in a straight line out of a sprinter's stance in his underwear? Once. At the combine. Maybe twice. At his Pro Day. That's it. Ever. When he is actually on the field in a game situation, wearing full pads, he must be able to backpedal, turn his hips, make a play on the ball, etc. A 40 time shows none of these skills. A slow number in a track skill is supposed to drop a top 10 football player into the second round? That's craziness. Football skills are most important...track skills fall way down the totem pole when evaluating potential NFL players (unless of course, your name is Al Davis...and we all know how swimmingly that strategy has worked out for him, right?)

All this shows is that Haden has poor technique to be sprinter, but being a good sprinter does not equate to being a good football player, or else an NFL team would have offered Usain Bolt a huge sum of money a long time ago (actually, I'd be surprised if Al Davis has not done this). Bolt would have difficulty turning his hips and covering (something he never has to do on the track), just like Haden had difficulty coming out of the blocks (something he never has to do on the football field).

Clearly, my :P needed to be preceded by and the style markers. I've been saying this exact same thing in thread after thread after thread. If I were a scout or coach I'd have a passing interest in the decathlon that the players go through at the combine; but, I'd be extremely interested in interviewing them to determine what type of person they are, their mental agility, respect for the game, character, etc. It's really the only chance a team will get to know a player to whom they are going to pay a large sum of money. The football talent has already been determined.

Nine out 10 draft picks that are busts are busts because they can't handle the mental aspect of the game; the other bust is due to injury, never because they don't know how to play football. The stopwatch is the devil that has lead many teams down a path of poor decision making and ultimately into the NFL bottom feeders.


Pappy
You are a very wise man, Pappy! I think the interview process is extremely important, well along with the bench press, c'mon Chad Jones! Whew! :wink:

Lebsteel
03-03-2010, 09:41 AM
Interesting take on 40 times and defensive backs from Chad Reuter at NFLDraftScout.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/12999650/top-defensive-backs-give-scouts-different-looks?tag=coverlist_active;coverlist_footer

Jooser
03-03-2010, 09:54 AM
any chance haden ran a bit slower so he slips past the browns?



pretty smart guy

EXACTLY!!! LMAO! It's a great strategy to slip by the sorry ass teams early on if you ask me. I sit and watch the draft every year and shake my head at how top end first-round talent simply goes straight to the compost pile. Haden's a great talent, there's either something amiss with the timing equipment, or he's trying to move down on purpose to get picked up by a quality franchise...JMHO.

:brownssuck :lol:

ikestops85
03-03-2010, 04:00 PM
any chance haden ran a bit slower so he slips past the browns?



pretty smart guy

EXACTLY!!! LMAO! It's a great strategy to slip by the sorry bad word teams early on if you ask me. I sit and watch the draft every year and shake my head at how top end first-round talent simply goes straight to the compost pile. Haden's a great talent, there's either something amiss with the timing equipment, or he's trying to move down on purpose to get picked up by a quality franchise...JMHO.

:brownssuck :lol:

I don't think that is a great move to make. It could potentially cost him millions. Not so smart in my book.

MeetJoeGreene
03-03-2010, 04:38 PM
So much for southern speed