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hawaiiansteel
01-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Mel Kiper's current first 9 Mock Draft Selections - saw this on ESPN, thought you might find this list of interest -
(even if Mel is an idiot sometimes)

1 St. Louis - Ndamukong Suh DT

2 Detroit - Gerald McCoy DT

3 Tampa Bay - Eric Berry S

4 Washington - Sam Bradford QB

5 Kansas City - Russell Okung OT

6 Seattle - Derrick Morgan DE

7 Cleveland - Joe Haden CB

8 Oakland - Anthony Davis OT

9 Buffalo - Jimmy Clausen QB

papillon
01-20-2010, 10:33 PM
I hope Bradford and Claussen go that high in this draft. That will push 2 outstanding talents down the draft board and possibly leave a great selection for the Steelers. I just don't see Claussen or Bradford having value that high in the draft. Bradford missed all of last year with an injury, didn't he?

This is probably a good thread in which to ask this question. The following players may all be a vailable when the Steelers draft this year based on searching the internet for mock drafts:

Brandon Spikes - ILB
Terence Cody - NT
Dan Williams - NT
Earl Thomas - FS
Taylor Mays - SS

Who would you take if you were Kevin Colbert?

I'd take Earl Thomas, he's young, he has ball skills and he tackles. What say you?

Pappy

Shawn
01-20-2010, 11:24 PM
Pappy I agree with your list and to narrow it down I believe we will pick between Cody and Earl Thomas if available. But, I think Cody gets snapped up earlier than expected...and the clear pick becomes Thomas. I won't cry if we can pick him up in the first and Williams in the second. FS, NT? Both should see PT in their first season. That would be a nice start.

hawaiiansteel
01-21-2010, 12:33 AM
if the first nine selections in this year's NFL Draft were to unfold this way, we would be guaranteed to have at least one of these players to choose from:

Rolondo McClain - best overall ILB, James Farrior needs a replacement soon

Brandon Spikes - 2nd best ILB

Earl Thomas - young play-making safety, could replace Ryan Clark

Taylor Mays - athletic, hard-hitting safety, not my personal favorite but he will impress a lot of scouts at the Combine with his speed/size ratio

Terrence Cody - this mountain of a man could rotate with Chris Hoke if we are unable to re-sign Casey Hampton, who is seeking one last big payday

Dan Williams - some scouting services consider him to be the #1 rated NT

Mike Iupati - best overall OG in Draft could help our run-game, he would replace Trai Essex who could return to his valuable swing-man role on game days with his position flexibility

Bryan Bulaga - played LT at Iowa, might be BPA when we pick and gives us insurance if we are unable to re-sign Willie Colon

Trent Williams - this OT played C for Oklahoma in their bowl game, again that's exactly the kind of position flexibility Mike Tomlin loves

C J Spiller - this RB would be a wonderful complement to Rashard Mendenhall, bye bye Fast Willie


My personal order of preference: 1) Rolondo McClain 2) Earl Thomas 3) Bryan Bulaga 4)Terrence Cody

grotonsteel
01-21-2010, 12:52 AM
Here is an interesting read on Ro McClain vs Brandon Spikes. Its from http://www.footballsfuture.com

One of the poster compared these two linebackers.

Rolando McClain
McClain seems to grab at people rather than fit and wrap players up when he tackles. In this instance, I think his size actually works against him as he seems to have a hard time getting low enough when breaking down and tackling. Sometimes, he also seems to wait for the ball carrier to come to him and absorbing the blow rather than delivering punishment.

He shows a decent burst when blitzing but again he plays way too high. When he runs in pursuit though he doesn't show the same speed, he actually simply gives up on some plays.

He does show good strength fending off linemen, but needs to use better leverage to punch off them, not simply holding them at bey.

One thing that really concerns me is his lack of effort sometimes. He also needs to play lower and use better leverage because he has all the tools. He has the size and strength, he even usually makes pretty good reads but he needs to learn how to use his size.

Brandon Spikes
Now Spikes is a very physical and aggressive player who really likes to hit. The problem is that he actually needs to control that aggression a little and break down when he gets to the ball carrier. He makes good fast reads but then sometimes takes poor angles to the ball.

I like the way he attacks blockers but needs to disengage better. He has a great, quick swim move, but if blockers square up on him, he gets into trouble. He also needs a little better awareness of where blockers are coming from and where they are trying to block him. Sometimes he just zeroes in on the ball and gets blindsided. Sometimes he simply runs himself out of plays.


Now a lot of this is knit picking, but I really do not see McClain as the explosive amazing player that everyone raves about. He may run a 4.6 but he definitely does not play that fast. I also do not see the physicality that people talk about. He absorbs ball carriers. Spikes is a perfect guy to pair with a Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis though. I think he would make a great Ted in a 3-4. He can play the role Bart Scott did in Baltimore, freeing up the Mike to make plays. He does need to learn how to control his aggression though.


Do Bama/Gators fan agree with this?

NJ-STEELER
01-21-2010, 01:15 AM
on NFLN

mayock thinks iupati might have the feet to play LT or RT in the NFL

hawaiiansteel
01-21-2010, 02:14 AM
on NFLN

mayock thinks iupati might have the feet to play LT or RT in the NFL



I made it a point to watch Iupati in Idaho's bowl game and I'm telling you, this guy is a beast! He would look great in Black & Gold, I'm sure Mike Tomlin would love the "position flexibility" that Iupati offers. However, I would prefer if we traded down in the first round and acquired some extra draft choices if we decided to choose Iupati to replace Essex at RG or possibly play RT if we can't re-sign Willie "False Start" Colon.

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2010, 02:33 AM
Since this is a thread that is oddly enough about the top 9, I will suggest what I hope will happen in the top 9 this year (I've mentioned this hair-brained idea before, but here is a top 9 scenario which could make it happen):

1 St. Louis - Ndamukong Suh DT Best player in the draft. Even though they could use a young QB to develop, you can't pass up an elite talent like this. Have to take him.

2 Detroit - Russell Okung OT They invested in Matt Stafford last year. Now they have to protect him. Jeff Backus isn't getting any younger (they may be able to move Backus inside to guard if Okung is able to start right away).

3 Tampa Bay - Gerald McCoy DT They need a solid d-lineman in the worst way. They will be devastated if Suh and McCoy go 1-2 ahead of them.

4 Washington - Jimmy Clausen QB Mike Shanahan needs a young QB to mold. I doubt that he thinks Jason Campbell is the answer.

5 Kansas City - Bruce Campbell OT They invested a lot in Matt Cassel and may have found something special in Jamaal Charles. They need to continue to invest in the horses up front to make Pioli's offensive vision come to fruition. The athletic Campbell allows Brandon Albert can move over to RT (or even move to LG...where he played at UVa...when Brian Waters hangs 'em up).

6 Seattle - Sam Bradford QB Pete Carroll will also want a young QB to mold. Assuming that he is not able to trade for his former QB at USC Matt Leinart, this could be the way he goes. They also pick again at #14 (acquired from the Broncos), so they can afford to take their franchise QB now and still fill other major needs 8 picks from now and again in round 2.

7 Cleveland - Joe Haden CB If anyone knows the value of a potential shutdown CB, it is Eric Mangini. He traded up to get Darrelle Revis when he was with the Jets, and it has paid off (well, not for Mangini himself, but the Jets are sure happy he made that move, even if Steeler fans continue to curse it). This time, he doesn't have to trade up to get the top cover corner in the draft.

8 Oakland - Taylor Mays S Amazing combination of size, speed, and athleticism, although many question his cover skills. Seems like a perfect Al Davis pick to me. Last year, he picked a WR in the top 10 with an amazing combination of size, speed, and athleticism, but with questionable hands. Taylor Mays may be the defensive version of Darrius Heyward-Bey, and Davis will not be able to resist. Meanwhile, Eric Berry will be this year's version of Michael Crabtree, falling to #10 because Al Davis took the better specimen at that position than the better football player. Double whoops.

9 Buffalo - Anthony Davis OT Last year, Buffalo tried to fix their interior line by drafting Eric Wood and Andy Levitre early. However, they traded away Jason Peters and cut Langston Walker, so they have zero talent at tackle. Anthony Davis fixes that problem (at least on one side of the line).

That makes Jacksonville next, and we all know that they want to get Tim Tebow in order to sell tickets. However, he is a huge reach at #10. They can get him later in the first round. We can trade up from #18 to #10 by offering up our 2nd round pick (and since Jacksonville traded away their 2nd rounder to New England already, I'm sure they would like to get a 2nd rounder back, and still be able to take Tebow at #18). The numbers work out according to standard draft trade value chart (a mid first and a mid second is essentially equal to the #10 overall pick, value-wise). We've done without a second round pick before...we traded our 2nd rounder away last year as well as the year in which we drafted Santonio in the 1st round. We can afford to do so, because we should still likely have 8 total draft picks even if we traded our #2 away...assuming that we get a couple of mid-round comp picks for BMac and Nate. The last time we traded up in the first round for a safety (Troy Polamalu), it worked to perfection. If we could somehow do it again to get FS Eric Berry (compared favorably to Ed Reed by many), then we convert a secondary with no big play ability to a secondary with huge big play ability by virtue of the return to Troy and the addition of Berry.

Chadman
01-21-2010, 02:56 AM
Although Chadman prefers Earl Thomas as a FS, it would be pretty cool to own an intimidating Safety pairing like Polamalu & Mays, wouldn't it?

Come across the middle at your own peril...

papillon
01-21-2010, 03:23 AM
Since this is a thread that is oddly enough about the top 9, I will suggest what I hope will happen in the top 9 this year (I've mentioned this hair-brained idea before, but here is a top 9 scenario which could make it happen):

1 St. Louis - Ndamukong Suh DT Best player in the draft. Even though they could use a young QB to develop, you can't pass up an elite talent like this. Have to take him.

2 Detroit - Russell Okung OT They invested in Matt Stafford last year. Now they have to protect him. Jeff Backus isn't getting any younger (they may be able to move Backus inside to guard if Okung is able to start right away).

3 Tampa Bay - Gerald McCoy DT They need a solid d-lineman in the worst way. They will be devastated if Suh and McCoy go 1-2 ahead of them.

4 Washington - Jimmy Clausen QB Mike Shanahan needs a young QB to mold. I doubt that he thinks Jason Campbell is the answer.

5 Kansas City - Bruce Campbell OT They invested a lot in Matt Cassel and may have found something special in Jamaal Charles. They need to continue to invest in the horses up front to make Pioli's offensive vision come to fruition. The athletic Campbell allows Brandon Albert can move over to RT (or even move to LG...where he played at UVa...when Brian Waters hangs 'em up).

6 Seattle - Sam Bradford QB Pete Carroll will also want a young QB to mold. Assuming that he is not able to trade for his former QB at USC Matt Leinart, this could be the way he goes. They also pick again at #14 (acquired from the Broncos), so they can afford to take their franchise QB now and still fill other major needs 8 picks from now and again in round 2.

7 Cleveland - Joe Haden CB If anyone knows the value of a potential shutdown CB, it is Eric Mangini. He traded up to get Darrelle Revis when he was with the Jets, and it has paid off (well, not for Mangini himself, but the Jets are sure happy he made that move, even if Steeler fans continue to curse it). This time, he doesn't have to trade up to get the top cover corner in the draft.

8 Oakland - Taylor Mays S Amazing combination of size, speed, and athleticism, although many question his cover skills. Seems like a perfect Al Davis pick to me. Last year, he picked a WR in the top 10 with an amazing combination of size, speed, and athleticism, but with questionable hands. Taylor Mays may be the defensive version of Darrius Heyward-Bey, and Davis will not be able to resist. Meanwhile, Eric Berry will be this year's version of Michael Crabtree, falling to #10 because Al Davis took the better specimen at that position than the better football player. Double whoops.

9 Buffalo - Anthony Davis OT Last year, Buffalo tried to fix their interior line by drafting Eric Wood and Andy Levitre early. However, they traded away Jason Peters and cut Langston Walker, so they have zero talent at tackle. Anthony Davis fixes that problem (at least on one side of the line).

That makes Jacksonville next, and we all know that they want to get Tim Tebow in order to sell tickets. However, he is a huge reach at #10. They can get him later in the first round. We can trade up from #18 to #10 by offering up our 2nd round pick (and since Jacksonville traded away their 2nd rounder to New England already, I'm sure they would like to get a 2nd rounder back, and still be able to take Tebow at #18). The numbers work out according to standard draft trade value chart (a mid first and a mid second is essentially equal to the #10 overall pick, value-wise). We've done without a second round pick before...we traded our 2nd rounder away last year as well as the year in which we drafted Santonio in the 1st round. We can afford to do so, because we should still likely have 8 total draft picks even if we traded our #2 away...assuming that we get a couple of mid-round comp picks for BMac and Nate. The last time we traded up in the first round for a safety (Troy Polamalu), it worked to perfection. If we could somehow do it again to get FS Eric Berry (compared favorably to Ed Reed by many), then we convert a secondary with no big play ability to a secondary with huge big play ability by virtue of the return to Troy and the addition of Berry.

I don't like the trade up this year, too many needs on defense and we may be able to fill two huge needs without reaching and getting them high in the draft where the Steelers have excelled.

I also don't see Berry getting past the Browns with the third pick. As Shawn metioned I'd love to see Thomas at 1.18 and then Williams at 2.18 that would be a great start to getting our defense younger.

Pappy

Oviedo
01-21-2010, 09:05 AM
I hope Bradford and Claussen go that high in this draft. That will push 2 outstanding talents down the draft board and possibly leave a great selection for the Steelers. I just don't see Claussen or Bradford having value that high in the draft. Bradford missed all of last year with an injury, didn't he?

This is probably a good thread in which to ask this question. The following players may all be a vailable when the Steelers draft this year based on searching the internet for mock drafts:

Brandon Spikes - ILB
Terence Cody - NT
Dan Williams - NT
Earl Thomas - FS
Taylor Mays - SS

Who would you take if you were Kevin Colbert?

I'd take Earl Thomas, he's young, he has ball skills and he tackles. What say you?

Pappy

Spikes is being considered by some as a potentially dropping in the draft like Rey Malauga (sp?) did last year because of concerns over his speed. Not sure I'm ready to buy into that yet.

Still wouldn't touch Cody because of fitness issues.

Dan Williams may be a good pick but at #18 that is probably overdrafting him.

Thomas is solid, but do you really need to draft a safety at #18 in a draft that has the most depth at the Safety position in years. Will be able to get a solid pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Waiting may be the best value, especially when he is unlikely to see the field or contribute in his rookie year because of a defensive scheme that even the most remarkable rookie talents (Troy P) can't seem to understand.

Mays. Same same comments as for Thomas. Only advanatge that Mays has is ability to play Strong Safety that Thomas probably can't do. This may be value if you expect Troy's injury probelms to be recurring or we can keep him healthy and on the field more at FS. I think Mays may also slide more and more in the draft as the workouts and film work disects his play.

If I had to pick from your list I think It would be between Spikes and Thomas. Given needs and how Farrior wore down I would probably take Spikes.

However a better set to pick from in my mind and potnetially more contribution and therefore value as rookies would be from this list of three:

RB-CJ Spiller
OT-Bryan Balaga
TE-Jermane Gresham

Who would you take from that list??????????????? Our offense seems more primed to get a rookie on the field sooner and contributing. Won't that be best value?

calmkiller
01-21-2010, 09:14 AM
I thought for sure I saw the whole first round somewhere yesterday. He had us taking a Tackle from Iowa??? maybe, if I recall correctly. I'll try and find where I saw it yesterday. I didn't take much note to it or copy it because I thought it was common knowledge and not insider info. I do know Rolando McClain and Spiker were both off the board when we selected.

calmkiller
01-21-2010, 09:26 AM
Bam found it. I love you recently closed tabs option Firefox!!

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100120 ... um=twitter (http://www.detnews.com/article/20100120/SPORTS0101/1200417/1126/rss14?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Kiper's first round

1. St. Louis Rams: Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska

2. Detroit Lions: Gerald McCoy*, DT, Oklahoma

Comment: Getting McCoy both fits a big need for the Lions and is an extraordinarily good consolation prize for any team unable to get Suh. McCoy makes his living in the opponents' backfield, and is such a talent he could have landed in this position last year had he declared as a redshirt sophomore.

3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Eric Berry*, S, Tennessee

4. Washington Redskins: Sam Bradford*, QB, Oklahoma

5. Kansas City Chiefs: Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State

6. Seattle Seahawks: Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech

7. Cleveland Browns: Joe Haden*, CB, Florida

8. Oakland Raiders: Anthony Davis*, OT, Rutgers

9. Buffalo Bills: Jimmy Clausen*, QB, Notre Dame

10. Denver Broncos (from Chicago): Dez Bryant*, WR, Oklahoma State

11. Jacksonville Jaguars: Jason Pierre-Paul*, DE, South Florida

12. Miami Dolphins: Rolando McClain*, LB, Alabama

13. San Francisco 49ers: Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma

14. Seattle Seahawks (from Denver): C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson

15. New York Giants: Carlos Dunlap*, DE, Florida

16. San Francisco 49ers (from Carolina): Earl Thomas*, S, Texas

17. Tennessee Titans: Everson Griffen*, DE, USC

18. Pittsburgh Steelers : Bryan Bulaga*, OT, Iowa

19. Atlanta Falcons: Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas

20. Houston Texans: Brian Price*, DT, UCLA

21. Cincinnati Bengals: Aaron Hernandez*, TE, Florida

22. New England Patriots: Ricky Sapp, OLB, Clemson

23. Green Bay Packers: Taylor Mays, S, USC

24. Philadelphia Eagles: Navorro Bowman*, OLB, Penn State

25. Baltimore Ravens: Jermaine Gresham*, TE, Oklahoma

26. Arizona Cardinals: Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee

27. Dallas Cowboys: Bruce Campbell*, OT, Maryland

28. San Diego Chargers: Jonathan Dwyer*, RB, Georgia Tech

29. New York Jets: Golden Tate*, WR, Notre Dame

30. Minnesota Vikings: Patrick Robinson, CB, Florida State

31. New Orleans Saints: Jared Odrick, DT, Penn State

32. Indianapolis Colts: Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan

*underclassman

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2010, 10:11 AM
I don't like the trade up this year, too many needs on defense and we may be able to fill two huge needs without reaching and getting them high in the draft where the Steelers have excelled.

I also don't see Berry getting past the Browns with the third pick. As Shawn metioned I'd love to see Thomas at 1.18 and then Williams at 2.18 that would be a great start to getting our defense younger.

Pappy

The Browns don't have the 3rd pick. They pick 7th. Tampa picks 3rd.

I would also love to get Earl Thomas in the first and then Dan Williams in the second...that would be a near-ideal scenario...but I don't think there is any way that Dan Williams lasts until the middle of the second round with so many teams running a 3-4 D that could use a good nose tackle. San Diego would almost surely take him in the late first (Jamal Williams is significantly older than Hampton and more injury prone). If not, then Miami would take him before us in the second (Jason Ferguson is no spring chicken either). There are a few other teams that could take him in the early second before us as well (Broncos, Chiefs, etc.). Although some have been saying that Dan Williams may not be a value pick at #18, I think that is where you will have to get him if you do want him.

Jom112
01-21-2010, 11:29 AM
21. Cincinnati Bengals: Aaron Hernandez*, TE, Florida

22. New England Patriots: Ricky Sapp, OLB, Clemson

23. Green Bay Packers: Taylor Mays, S, USC

24. Philadelphia Eagles: Navorro Bowman*, OLB, Penn State

25. Baltimore Ravens: Jermaine Gresham*, TE, Oklahoma



In what world would Aaron Hernandez get selected before Jermaine Gresham?

Oviedo
01-21-2010, 01:54 PM
21. Cincinnati Bengals: Aaron Hernandez*, TE, Florida

22. New England Patriots: Ricky Sapp, OLB, Clemson

23. Green Bay Packers: Taylor Mays, S, USC

24. Philadelphia Eagles: Navorro Bowman*, OLB, Penn State

25. Baltimore Ravens: Jermaine Gresham*, TE, Oklahoma



In what world would Aaron Hernandez get selected before Jermaine Gresham?

In a world wher someone is worried about Gresham's injury. It would be a very small world. Probably Pluto size which isn't even considered a world anymore I guess.

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2010, 02:55 PM
While we are on the subject of mock drafts, Walter Cherepinsky just put up a 4 round mock draft.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2010.php

In the first four rounds, he has the Steelers taking:

1 (18). FS Earl Thomas, Texas

2 (52). CB Trevard Lindley, Kentucky

3 (82). OLB Sergio Kindle, Texas

4 (113). NT Jay Ross, East Carolina

papillon
01-21-2010, 03:09 PM
I hope Bradford and Claussen go that high in this draft. That will push 2 outstanding talents down the draft board and possibly leave a great selection for the Steelers. I just don't see Claussen or Bradford having value that high in the draft. Bradford missed all of last year with an injury, didn't he?

This is probably a good thread in which to ask this question. The following players may all be a vailable when the Steelers draft this year based on searching the internet for mock drafts:

Brandon Spikes - ILB
Terence Cody - NT
Dan Williams - NT
Earl Thomas - FS
Taylor Mays - SS

Who would you take if you were Kevin Colbert?

I'd take Earl Thomas, he's young, he has ball skills and he tackles. What say you?

Pappy

Spikes is being considered by some as a potentially dropping in the draft like Rey Malauga (sp?) did last year because of concerns over his speed. Not sure I'm ready to buy into that yet.

Still wouldn't touch Cody because of fitness issues.

Dan Williams may be a good pick but at #18 that is probably overdrafting him.

Thomas is solid, but do you really need to draft a safety at #18 in a draft that has the most depth at the Safety position in years. Will be able to get a solid pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Waiting may be the best value, especially when he is unlikely to see the field or contribute in his rookie year because of a defensive scheme that even the most remarkable rookie talents (Troy P) can't seem to understand.

Mays. Same same comments as for Thomas. Only advanatge that Mays has is ability to play Strong Safety that Thomas probably can't do. This may be value if you expect Troy's injury probelms to be recurring or we can keep him healthy and on the field more at FS. I think Mays may also slide more and more in the draft as the workouts and film work disects his play.

If I had to pick from your list I think It would be between Spikes and Thomas. Given needs and how Farrior wore down I would probably take Spikes.

However a better set to pick from in my mind and potnetially more contribution and therefore value as rookies would be from this list of three:

RB-CJ Spiller
OT-Bryan Balaga
TE-Jermane Gresham

Who would you take from that list??????????????? Our offense seems more primed to get a rookie on the field sooner and contributing. Won't that be best value?

With Mendenhall coming on this year and showing that he's got what it takes to be an NFL running back he isn't coming cheap when his contract expires. Drafting another first round running back will put them in a bind financially at that position. I don't see this happening.

Same with the TE, the Steelers just signed Miller and probably have exceeded their allotment for the TE position with his contract having two first rounders at that position will become a financial nightmare.

The only one fron your list that I would select would be the OT. We'll know soon enough if that is a consideration depending on what they do with Colon. Starks is signed long term, if they extend Colon they probably aren't going to draft an OT in round one.

I'd like to see an RB taken second day or even a TE if one they have rated falls their way. But, rounds 1 - 3 should be defense, the offense is going to take off next year, IMO.

Pappy

Shawn
01-21-2010, 03:11 PM
While we are on the subject of mock drafts, Walter Cherepinsky just put up a 4 round mock draft.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2010.php

In the first four rounds, he has the Steelers taking:

1 (18). FS Earl Thomas, Texas

2 (52). CB Trevard Lindley, Kentucky

3 (82). OLB Sergio Kindle, Texas

4 (113). NT Jay Ross, East Carolina

I have exposure to Thomas and Lindley...would be happy with both. I have no idea about Kindle...and I have no idea about Ross. But, by the sounds of those initial reports with Troup...I would be happier taking a chance on Troup in the third or fourth.

Shawn
01-21-2010, 03:15 PM
I don't like the trade up this year, too many needs on defense and we may be able to fill two huge needs without reaching and getting them high in the draft where the Steelers have excelled.

I also don't see Berry getting past the Browns with the third pick. As Shawn metioned I'd love to see Thomas at 1.18 and then Williams at 2.18 that would be a great start to getting our defense younger.

Pappy

The Browns don't have the 3rd pick. They pick 7th. Tampa picks 3rd.

I would also love to get Earl Thomas in the first and then Dan Williams in the second...that would be a near-ideal scenario...but I don't think there is any way that Dan Williams lasts until the middle of the second round with so many teams running a 3-4 D that could use a good nose tackle. San Diego would almost surely take him in the late first (Jamal Williams is significantly older than Hampton and more injury prone). If not, then Miami would take him before us in the second (Jason Ferguson is no spring chicken either). There are a few other teams that could take him in the early second before us as well (Broncos, Chiefs, etc.). Although some have been saying that Dan Williams may not be a value pick at #18, I think that is where you will have to get him if you do want him.

Agreed...I was reading a site that averages the mock draft slots for each player. Cody's average was 18...hmm. And Williams average was 22...better than I thought it would be.
Cody was also listed as the 3rd bet DL talent...Williams the 5th. Cody is said to be the 16th best talent in the draft. We will see how that changes after the combine.

phillyesq
01-21-2010, 03:26 PM
I hope Bradford and Claussen go that high in this draft. That will push 2 outstanding talents down the draft board and possibly leave a great selection for the Steelers. I just don't see Claussen or Bradford having value that high in the draft. Bradford missed all of last year with an injury, didn't he?

This is probably a good thread in which to ask this question. The following players may all be a vailable when the Steelers draft this year based on searching the internet for mock drafts:

Brandon Spikes - ILB
Terence Cody - NT
Dan Williams - NT
Earl Thomas - FS
Taylor Mays - SS

Who would you take if you were Kevin Colbert?

I'd take Earl Thomas, he's young, he has ball skills and he tackles. What say you?

Pappy

Spikes is being considered by some as a potentially dropping in the draft like Rey Malauga (sp?) did last year because of concerns over his speed. Not sure I'm ready to buy into that yet.

Still wouldn't touch Cody because of fitness issues.

Dan Williams may be a good pick but at #18 that is probably overdrafting him.

Thomas is solid, but do you really need to draft a safety at #18 in a draft that has the most depth at the Safety position in years. Will be able to get a solid pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Waiting may be the best value, especially when he is unlikely to see the field or contribute in his rookie year because of a defensive scheme that even the most remarkable rookie talents (Troy P) can't seem to understand.

Mays. Same same comments as for Thomas. Only advanatge that Mays has is ability to play Strong Safety that Thomas probably can't do. This may be value if you expect Troy's injury probelms to be recurring or we can keep him healthy and on the field more at FS. I think Mays may also slide more and more in the draft as the workouts and film work disects his play.

If I had to pick from your list I think It would be between Spikes and Thomas. Given needs and how Farrior wore down I would probably take Spikes.

However a better set to pick from in my mind and potnetially more contribution and therefore value as rookies would be from this list of three:

RB-CJ Spiller
OT-Bryan Balaga
TE-Jermane Gresham

Who would you take from that list??????????????? Our offense seems more primed to get a rookie on the field sooner and contributing. Won't that be best value?

I wouldn't want an offensive player in the first round unless he was a lineman.

Defensive players have contributed as rookies in the past -- Hampton and Kendrell Bell (the DROY) come to mind. Woodley contributed a bit as a pass rusher in his rookie year. McFadden was a rookie when he made the big pass breakups against the Colts. I'm pretty sure that Anthony Smith contributed as a rookie before going downhill later.

Also, "Bustamalu" didn't contribute much as a rookie, but I think he was certainly worth the wait.

Basically, I don't think the Steelers should ignore their needs and take a luxury pick because that player might contribute more this season. I think they need to look long term, as they always do in the draft.

PSU_dropout43
01-21-2010, 04:02 PM
Honestly, I don't want a Thomas Everett-clone in the first round.

hawaiiansteel
01-21-2010, 04:07 PM
I believe who the Steelers select will somewhat depend on which of our own free agents we re-sign or find impossible to re-sign. I know our draft philosophy is BPA, but this year that philosophy will be influenced by need.

If Casey Hampton wants too much money, Terrence Cody or Dan Williams become real possibilities. Yes, we could franchise Big Snack but do we want the distractions of a holdout as Hampton has already stated he does not want to be tagged.

If Ryan Clark does not return then we have a gaping hole at free safety and Earl Thomas may be selected to fill that void.

James Farrior has definitely lost a step, he got beat quite a few times in pass coverage this past season. If Rolando McClain is available he will be tempting. Although Brandon Spikes bites as well as any LB in the draft, I would much rather see us trade down and pick up some additional choices if we were going to draft him.

Willie Colon may be difficult to re-sign as well, I know we can transition tag him and make him a restricted FA but that's only a short-term solution. We have very little depth at the OT position, Tony Hills does not inspire me with confidence. If Bryan Bulaga, Mike Iupati or Trent Williams are available we may have to think long and hard.

We need CBs in the worst way, but after Joe Haden there are no other worthy 1st round CBs available. Fortunately, there may be quite a few good CBs available when we pick in the 2nd round such as Patrick Robinson, Donovan Warren, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Ghee, Amari Spievey, Perrish Cox and Trevor Lindley. That's where the value is and in my opinion this is where the Steelers will pick a CB to compete for the spot opposite Ike "Hands of Stone" Taylor.

Oviedo
01-21-2010, 05:22 PM
I hope Bradford and Claussen go that high in this draft. That will push 2 outstanding talents down the draft board and possibly leave a great selection for the Steelers. I just don't see Claussen or Bradford having value that high in the draft. Bradford missed all of last year with an injury, didn't he?

This is probably a good thread in which to ask this question. The following players may all be a vailable when the Steelers draft this year based on searching the internet for mock drafts:

Brandon Spikes - ILB
Terence Cody - NT
Dan Williams - NT
Earl Thomas - FS
Taylor Mays - SS

Who would you take if you were Kevin Colbert?

I'd take Earl Thomas, he's young, he has ball skills and he tackles. What say you?

Pappy

Spikes is being considered by some as a potentially dropping in the draft like Rey Malauga (sp?) did last year because of concerns over his speed. Not sure I'm ready to buy into that yet.

Still wouldn't touch Cody because of fitness issues.

Dan Williams may be a good pick but at #18 that is probably overdrafting him.

Thomas is solid, but do you really need to draft a safety at #18 in a draft that has the most depth at the Safety position in years. Will be able to get a solid pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Waiting may be the best value, especially when he is unlikely to see the field or contribute in his rookie year because of a defensive scheme that even the most remarkable rookie talents (Troy P) can't seem to understand.

Mays. Same same comments as for Thomas. Only advanatge that Mays has is ability to play Strong Safety that Thomas probably can't do. This may be value if you expect Troy's injury probelms to be recurring or we can keep him healthy and on the field more at FS. I think Mays may also slide more and more in the draft as the workouts and film work disects his play.

If I had to pick from your list I think It would be between Spikes and Thomas. Given needs and how Farrior wore down I would probably take Spikes.

However a better set to pick from in my mind and potnetially more contribution and therefore value as rookies would be from this list of three:

RB-CJ Spiller
OT-Bryan Balaga
TE-Jermane Gresham

Who would you take from that list??????????????? Our offense seems more primed to get a rookie on the field sooner and contributing. Won't that be best value?

With Mendenhall coming on this year and showing that he's got what it takes to be an NFL running back he isn't coming cheap when his contract expires. Drafting another first round running back will put them in a bind financially at that position. I don't see this happening.

Same with the TE, the Steelers just signed Miller and probably have exceeded their allotment for the TE position with his contract having two first rounders at that position will become a financial nightmare.

The only one fron your list that I would select would be the OT. We'll know soon enough if that is a consideration depending on what they do with Colon. Starks is signed long term, if they extend Colon they probably aren't going to draft an OT in round one.

I'd like to see an RB taken second day or even a TE if one they have rated falls their way. But, rounds 1 - 3 should be defense, the offense is going to take off next year, IMO.

Pappy

Following you same logic for RB and TE, didn't we just sign both Starks and Kemo to big contracts? Extend hartwig? Sign Essex? And likely will tag Colon. Just following your logic I have to think we are near the max allocation for the OL too.

Just look at the impact that Percy Harvin and Shonn Green have had on the Vikings and Jets respectively. Rookie RBs with speed can win games for you. Just don't think we can ignore that position because while Mendy is good we do not have any real depth behind him. Moore is limited. Parker will be gone. Summers is a big question mark. Redman is just a pre season illusion.

IMO if we don't get a quality #2 back in the draft or FA then we won't have to worry about discussions about whether we throw too much because we won't have a choice if Mendy gets hurt. You need at least three qualoity backs in the NFL these days. Look at the Ravens with Rice, McGahee and McClain. That is what we need accordining to a vocal portion of this board but yet we don't want to take the biggest game changing RB available in this draft if he is available. Doesn't make sense to me.

calmkiller
01-21-2010, 05:22 PM
I hope Bradford and Claussen go that high in this draft. That will push 2 outstanding talents down the draft board and possibly leave a great selection for the Steelers. I just don't see Claussen or Bradford having value that high in the draft. Bradford missed all of last year with an injury, didn't he?

This is probably a good thread in which to ask this question. The following players may all be a vailable when the Steelers draft this year based on searching the internet for mock drafts:

Brandon Spikes - ILB
Terence Cody - NT
Dan Williams - NT
Earl Thomas - FS
Taylor Mays - SS

Who would you take if you were Kevin Colbert?

I'd take Earl Thomas, he's young, he has ball skills and he tackles. What say you?

Pappy

Spikes is being considered by some as a potentially dropping in the draft like Rey Malauga (sp?) did last year because of concerns over his speed. Not sure I'm ready to buy into that yet.

Still wouldn't touch Cody because of fitness issues.

Dan Williams may be a good pick but at #18 that is probably overdrafting him.

Thomas is solid, but do you really need to draft a safety at #18 in a draft that has the most depth at the Safety position in years. Will be able to get a solid pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Waiting may be the best value, especially when he is unlikely to see the field or contribute in his rookie year because of a defensive scheme that even the most remarkable rookie talents (Troy P) can't seem to understand.

Mays. Same same comments as for Thomas. Only advanatge that Mays has is ability to play Strong Safety that Thomas probably can't do. This may be value if you expect Troy's injury probelms to be recurring or we can keep him healthy and on the field more at FS. I think Mays may also slide more and more in the draft as the workouts and film work disects his play.

If I had to pick from your list I think It would be between Spikes and Thomas. Given needs and how Farrior wore down I would probably take Spikes.

However a better set to pick from in my mind and potnetially more contribution and therefore value as rookies would be from this list of three:

RB-CJ Spiller
OT-Bryan Balaga
TE-Jermane Gresham

Who would you take from that list??????????????? Our offense seems more primed to get a rookie on the field sooner and contributing. Won't that be best value?

With Mendenhall coming on this year and showing that he's got what it takes to be an NFL running back he isn't coming cheap when his contract expires. Drafting another first round running back will put them in a bind financially at that position. I don't see this happening.

Same with the TE, the Steelers just signed Miller and probably have exceeded their allotment for the TE position with his contract having two first rounders at that position will become a financial nightmare.

The only one fron your list that I would select would be the OT. We'll know soon enough if that is a consideration depending on what they do with Colon. Starks is signed long term, if they extend Colon they probably aren't going to draft an OT in round one.

Pappy

Colon is a restricted FA after this year. He will be with the Steelers or with no one at all.

Jom112
01-21-2010, 05:44 PM
While we are on the subject of mock drafts, Walter Cherepinsky just put up a 4 round mock draft.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2010.php

In the first four rounds, he has the Steelers taking:

1 (18). FS Earl Thomas, Texas

2 (52). CB Trevard Lindley, Kentucky

3 (82). OLB Sergio Kindle, Texas

4 (113). NT Jay Ross, East Carolina

Sergio Kindle is projected to go in the 3rd round now?

Not saying it can't happen especially considering how Michael Johnson dropped to the 3rd round for us last draft, but this is the first I'm seeing him be projected this low...

NJ-STEELER
01-21-2010, 05:45 PM
I hope Bradford and Claussen go that high in this draft. That will push 2 outstanding talents down the draft board and possibly leave a great selection for the Steelers. I just don't see Claussen or Bradford having value that high in the draft. Bradford missed all of last year with an injury, didn't he?

This is probably a good thread in which to ask this question. The following players may all be a vailable when the Steelers draft this year based on searching the internet for mock drafts:

Brandon Spikes - ILB
Terence Cody - NT
Dan Williams - NT
Earl Thomas - FS
Taylor Mays - SS

Who would you take if you were Kevin Colbert?

I'd take Earl Thomas, he's young, he has ball skills and he tackles. What say you?

Pappy

Spikes is being considered by some as a potentially dropping in the draft like Rey Malauga (sp?) did last year because of concerns over his speed. Not sure I'm ready to buy into that yet.

Still wouldn't touch Cody because of fitness issues.

Dan Williams may be a good pick but at #18 that is probably overdrafting him.

Thomas is solid, but do you really need to draft a safety at #18 in a draft that has the most depth at the Safety position in years. Will be able to get a solid pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Waiting may be the best value, especially when he is unlikely to see the field or contribute in his rookie year because of a defensive scheme that even the most remarkable rookie talents (Troy P) can't seem to understand.

Mays. Same same comments as for Thomas. Only advanatge that Mays has is ability to play Strong Safety that Thomas probably can't do. This may be value if you expect Troy's injury probelms to be recurring or we can keep him healthy and on the field more at FS. I think Mays may also slide more and more in the draft as the workouts and film work disects his play.

If I had to pick from your list I think It would be between Spikes and Thomas. Given needs and how Farrior wore down I would probably take Spikes.

However a better set to pick from in my mind and potnetially more contribution and therefore value as rookies would be from this list of three:

RB-CJ Spiller
OT-Bryan Balaga
TE-Jermane Gresham

Who would you take from that list??????????????? Our offense seems more primed to get a rookie on the field sooner and contributing. Won't that be best value?

With Mendenhall coming on this year and showing that he's got what it takes to be an NFL running back he isn't coming cheap when his contract expires. Drafting another first round running back will put them in a bind financially at that position. I don't see this happening.

Same with the TE, the Steelers just signed Miller and probably have exceeded their allotment for the TE position with his contract having two first rounders at that position will become a financial nightmare.

The only one fron your list that I would select would be the OT. We'll know soon enough if that is a consideration depending on what they do with Colon. Starks is signed long term, if they extend Colon they probably aren't going to draft an OT in round one.

I'd like to see an RB taken second day or even a TE if one they have rated falls their way. But, rounds 1 - 3 should be defense, the offense is going to take off next year, IMO.

Pappy

Following you same logic for RB and TE, didn't we just sign both Starks and Kemo to big contracts? Extend hartwig? Sign Essex? And likely will tag Colon. Just following your logic I have to think we are near the max allocation for the OL too.

Just look at the impact that Percy Harvin and Shonn Green have had on the Vikings and Jets respectively. Rookie RBs with speed can win games for you. Just don't think we can ignore that position because while Mendy is good we do not have any real depth behind him. Moore is limited. Parker will be gone. Summers is a big question mark. Redman is just a pre season illusion.

IMO if we don't get a quality #2 back in the draft or FA then we won't have to worry about discussions about whether we throw too much because we won't have a choice if Mendy gets hurt. You need at least three qualoity backs in the NFL these days. Look at the Ravens with Rice, McGahee and McClain. That is what we need accordining to a vocal portion of this board but yet we don't want to take the biggest game changing RB available in this draft if he is available. Doesn't make sense to me.

max got "big" money. kemo is about average for starting OGs, and hartwig's contract is very easily swallowed up if he's cut.

as some others have said, there isn't really a big need for a 2nd TE. dallas tried that approach with taking a TE pretty high with already a good one on the roster(witten) and wound up changing 2nd round pick into a 4th rounder when they dealt him to miami (fasano). they've tried it again with bennent... again, does anyone notice him on the dallas offense?

sure we could use a lil upgrade at the 2nd TE spot, but its probably not even in the top 10 of the priority list. good 2nd TEs could be had later in the draft.

same goes for the RB position. none of those backs you listed in balt were chosen in 1st round. mcgahee was at one point but was traded for much less then that.
as we've seen, there are plenty of productive backs taken later in the draft. i dont think anyone would be against taking one in rounds 3-5 if willie doesn't come back

NJ-STEELER
01-21-2010, 05:52 PM
While we are on the subject of mock drafts, Walter Cherepinsky just put up a 4 round mock draft.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2010.php

In the first four rounds, he has the Steelers taking:

1 (18). FS Earl Thomas, Texas

2 (52). CB Trevard Lindley, Kentucky

3 (82). OLB Sergio Kindle, Texas

4 (113). NT Jay Ross, East Carolina

Sergio Kindle is projected to go in the 3rd round now?

Not saying it can't happen especially considering how Michael Johnson dropped to the 3rd round for us last draft, but this is the first I'm seeing him be projected this low...

the mocks that are out before the senior games and combine are all over the place.

for example, i've seen hernandez in the 1st and 4th in different mocks just like kindle.

so take it with a grain of salt

NW Steeler
01-21-2010, 06:20 PM
I think that the Steelers will spend at least one of their first two picks on the OL. I don't think that we will ever be able to run the ball with "authority" with our current lineup. I wouldn't be suprised to see Bulaga be the pick unless someone falls that they really like on D.

Chadman
01-21-2010, 06:47 PM
The Steelers have 3 (4 if you believe, like Chadman does, that Willie Colon is coming back) OT's on the roster under 30 years of age.

They have 4 OG's on the roster under 30 years of age, one drafted in the 3rd round last year with big wraps from the OC.

They have 1 OC on the roster, over 30 years of age. They drafted one last year in the 7th round after missing on 3 that they targetted in Rounds 1 & 2.

If the Steelers take an OL this draft- it'll be the OC they missed on last year.

Enter Boston College's Matt Tennant in Round 2- still allowing the Steelers to grab a CB or FS or NT in Round 1.

The Steelers drafted 2 CB's that they rated highly in last years draft. They had another young CB (Willie Gay) making his first season as a starter. They are unlikely to give up on those young CB's in this years draft, so quickly. They will add a CB, you would think, but look at round 3-4. Vanderbilt's Myron Lewis has "Steeler CB" written all over him.

Mr Rooney has openly declared that Casey Hampton is a #1 priority to retain this off season. How often do the Steelers lose the guys they WANT to keep? Very rarely. So start writing Casey's name back on the deoth chart for next season. This makes the need to reach for a DT less likely. Unless Terrence Cody blows the FO away with his ability, look for the Steelers to draft a NT in the mid-rounds. Under the radar at the moment, but Boo Robinson from Wake Forest will be interesting to keep an eye on. D'Anthony Smith from Louisiana Tech is another name to keep in the back of your mind.

FS....this is the most likely pick. Earl Thomas gets a lot of love on here, and rightly so. But really, don't discount the freak, Taylor Mays. There is something to be said about adding the most imposing DB in the draft to a team that will want to re-establish it's dominance, it's demeanor, and it's swagger against a tough group of divisional opponants. Mays may not be the same type of playmaker Thomas is, but coupled with Polamalu, he could help form the most dominant Safety pairing in the NFL. Mays is compared to the late Sean Taylor. Imagine trying to run against the D with Mays back there.

NW Steeler
01-21-2010, 06:58 PM
Great analysis Chadman. But just because they have so many OL on the roster doesn't mean that they couldn't significantly upgrade the talent there. There are a lot of ways they could go in this draft. What you pointed out about our draft picks on CB's last year and Casey's status is probably dead on. Your "mock" draft is pretty intriguing. A lot of people are down on Mays. But a lot of people are fine with Clark if Troy is playing next to him. No one could convince me that Mays would not be an upgrade over Clark, especially when paired with Troy. Drafting a Center in the second fills another need early. Nice work. But I wouldn't be surprised if they took OL with both their first two picks, depending on what they do in free agency.

Chadman
01-21-2010, 07:09 PM
Great analysis Chadman. But just because they have so many OL on the roster doesn't mean that they couldn't significantly upgrade the talent there. There are a lot of ways they could go in this draft. What you pointed out about our draft picks on CB's last year and Casey's status is probably dead on. Your "mock" draft is pretty intriguing. A lot of people are down on Mays. But a lot of people are fine with Clark if Troy is playing next to him. No one could convince me that Mays would not be an upgrade over Clark, especially when paired with Troy. Drafting a Center in the second fills another need early. Nice work. But I wouldn't be surprised if they took OL with both their first two picks, depending on what they do in free agency.

They've committed a bunch of money on Starks to play LT, and Colon has 'graded out' the best of all the OL over the last two years, according to Larry Z & Arians. That's your 2 starting OT's there. And Essex backs them up. Just can't see the Steelers drafting another OT to back these guys up for not just the short term, but likely the long term too.

Kemo is on good money, and Urbik was drafted in Rd 3 last year, so again, unlikely they would look at OG early in the draft.

Outside of OC, the position the Steelers desperatly tried to fill in Rounds 1 & 2 last year, there doesn't seem to be many openings on the OL.

It's interesting that the Steelers have not made much fuss about losing Ryan Clark. This just seems to Chadman like they know which direction they are moving. Some people here will say that the Steelers won't 'tip their hat' in regards to their targets, but Chadman disagrees. We all knew Tomlin wanted Revis. We all knew Tomlin liked Timmons. We all knew the Steelers looked at Alex Mack, Eric Wood & Max Unger. We all knew the Steelers wanted a 'big WR' when they got Sweed. We all knew the Steelers wanted to get younger on the DL when we got Hood (although Ron Brace not being picked there still surprises Chadman). The only 'wild card' pick so far has been Mendenhall, who fell into the BPA role. It seems very likely the #1 pick will be a DB.

hawaiiansteel
01-21-2010, 07:15 PM
Great analysis Chadman. But just because they have so many OL on the roster doesn't mean that they couldn't significantly upgrade the talent there. There are a lot of ways they could go in this draft. What you pointed out about our draft picks on CB's last year and Casey's status is probably dead on. Your "mock" draft is pretty intriguing. A lot of people are down on Mays. But a lot of people are fine with Clark if Troy is playing next to him. No one could convince me that Mays would not be an upgrade over Clark, especially when paired with Troy. Drafting a Center in the second fills another need early. Nice work. But I wouldn't be surprised if they took OL with both their first two picks, depending on what they do in free agency.


Unless we sign a starting caliber CB or FS in free agency the Steelers should not go OL with their first two draft picks, there are just way too many other holes to fill. We already have 10 OL on our roster returning next year (Starks, Colon, Kemoeatu, Essex, Hartwig, Foster, Urbik, Legursky, Stapleton, Hills) whereas we have no depth whatsoever at the safety position and a huge hole at CB opposite Ike Taylor. Do we really want to see Gay, Burnett, Lewis, Trae Williams or God forbid Anthony Madison starting there next year? No one will argue that we could use an upgrade on the OL but we need to choose either a safety or a CB in the first 2 rounds next year. When Bruce Gradkowski looks good against your secondary you know there is a problem.

Chadman
01-21-2010, 07:26 PM
Great analysis Chadman. But just because they have so many OL on the roster doesn't mean that they couldn't significantly upgrade the talent there. There are a lot of ways they could go in this draft. What you pointed out about our draft picks on CB's last year and Casey's status is probably dead on. Your "mock" draft is pretty intriguing. A lot of people are down on Mays. But a lot of people are fine with Clark if Troy is playing next to him. No one could convince me that Mays would not be an upgrade over Clark, especially when paired with Troy. Drafting a Center in the second fills another need early. Nice work. But I wouldn't be surprised if they took OL with both their first two picks, depending on what they do in free agency.


Unless we sign a starting caliber CB or FS in free agency the Steelers should not go OL with their first two draft picks, there are just way too many other holes to fill. We already have 10 OL on our roster returning next year (Starks, Colon, Kemoeatu, Essex, Hartwig, Foster, Urbik, Legursky, Stapleton, Hills) whereas we have no depth whatsoever at the safety position and a huge hole at CB opposite Ike Taylor. Do we really want to see Gay, Burnett, Lewis, Trae Williams or God forbid Anthony Madison starting there next year? No one will argue that we could use an upgrade on the OL but we need to choose either a safety or a CB in the first 2 rounds next year. When Bruce Gradkowski looks good against your secondary you know there is a problem.

While it is true that 10 OL will return next season, the likes of Legursky, Stapleton & Hills can hardly call themselves 'locks' to get out of Traiing Camp. And the Steelers desire to draft a young OC last season, and subsequent failure to do so, means that drafting an OC early this year is certainly not out of the question. Remember- who backs up Hartwig at this point?

At DB, it would seem 'unlikely' that the Steelers would give up on all the young CB's on the roster- Gay has 1 year of starting experience, Lewis & Burnett were rookies last year, Williams is promising (but no lock to make it out of Training Camp) & Madison is purely ST. Chances are they will draft a CB, but unless Haden falls to #18, or Robinson inspires a lot of confidence, look for rounds 3-4 for CB. Zero depth at Safety though, that means the Steelers will look EARLY at a safety, regardless of Clark leaving or staying.

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2010, 08:01 PM
On the list of o-lineman we currently have, there appears to be more depth now than there has been in recent years, but we don't have a single guy who I think can challenge to be a Pro Bowl offensive lineman. If we feel Bulaga can be a Pro Bowl tackle, isn't that an upgrade? If we feel Iupati can be a Pro Bowl guard, isn't that an upgrade? If we feel Pouncey can be a Pro Bowl center, isn't that an upgrade? Don't discount the possibility of spending an early round pick on the o-line.

If Haden doesn't fall to #18 (I don't expect he will), then I don't think that there is another CB who is worthy of 18, but there appears to be a plethora of CB's with a second round grade (such as Donovan Warren, Brandon Ghee, Trevard Lindley, Patrick Robinson, Javier Arenas, Perrish Cox, Dominique Franks, and Kareem Jackson). With a history of Colbert taking CB's in the 2nd round (he did it in back-to-back seasons with Colclough and McFadden), there is a decent possibility that CB may be a round 2 target.

NW Steeler
01-21-2010, 08:28 PM
Regardless of depth, the right side of our OL and center could be replaced. And as Chadman stated, we have NO depth at center. But if the players they have targeted are gone at #18 and Bulaga is sitting there, I would be surprised if they didn't take him. But between CB, S, and ILB, there is bound to be one of their targets sitting there (assuming that they are targeting one of those positions, of course).

RuthlessBurgher
01-21-2010, 08:32 PM
Well, I wouldn't say that they have NO depth at center. Behind Hartwig, both Stapleton and Legursky can play center (which is the reason why T-Rex Shipley thought his chances were better in Philly than here). But if we can get a Maurkice Pouncey in round 2, I'd be up for that. He's primarily a center, but also has the position flexibility that Tomlin loves.

hawaiiansteel
01-21-2010, 08:39 PM
We have many draft needs this year, more than i can usually remember us having.

We could use a CB, NT, FS, ILB, C, SS, RB, OT, TE and DE...hope we get some good comp picks and maybe trade down at least once to acquire some more.

Do you think there's any chance we may be a little more aggressive in free agency this year? Are there any good free agents out there that are "Steeler-type" signings that could potentially fill some of our needs?

NW Steeler
01-22-2010, 12:36 AM
I think that this is one of those years that we need to sign a good starting-caliber player in free agency. Whether it is a FS, CB, LB, etc., I don't know. But we have had some good signings in the past like Farrior, Kimo, & Hartings. I don't know the list of FA players that fit the Steelers mold, but hopefully this is the year that we make a significant signing. That will open up more possibilities in the draft.

papillon
01-22-2010, 01:26 AM
I hope Bradford and Claussen go that high in this draft. That will push 2 outstanding talents down the draft board and possibly leave a great selection for the Steelers. I just don't see Claussen or Bradford having value that high in the draft. Bradford missed all of last year with an injury, didn't he?

This is probably a good thread in which to ask this question. The following players may all be a vailable when the Steelers draft this year based on searching the internet for mock drafts:

Brandon Spikes - ILB
Terence Cody - NT
Dan Williams - NT
Earl Thomas - FS
Taylor Mays - SS

Who would you take if you were Kevin Colbert?

I'd take Earl Thomas, he's young, he has ball skills and he tackles. What say you?

Pappy

Spikes is being considered by some as a potentially dropping in the draft like Rey Malauga (sp?) did last year because of concerns over his speed. Not sure I'm ready to buy into that yet.

Still wouldn't touch Cody because of fitness issues.

Dan Williams may be a good pick but at #18 that is probably overdrafting him.

Thomas is solid, but do you really need to draft a safety at #18 in a draft that has the most depth at the Safety position in years. Will be able to get a solid pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Waiting may be the best value, especially when he is unlikely to see the field or contribute in his rookie year because of a defensive scheme that even the most remarkable rookie talents (Troy P) can't seem to understand.

Mays. Same same comments as for Thomas. Only advanatge that Mays has is ability to play Strong Safety that Thomas probably can't do. This may be value if you expect Troy's injury probelms to be recurring or we can keep him healthy and on the field more at FS. I think Mays may also slide more and more in the draft as the workouts and film work disects his play.

If I had to pick from your list I think It would be between Spikes and Thomas. Given needs and how Farrior wore down I would probably take Spikes.

However a better set to pick from in my mind and potnetially more contribution and therefore value as rookies would be from this list of three:

RB-CJ Spiller
OT-Bryan Balaga
TE-Jermane Gresham

Who would you take from that list??????????????? Our offense seems more primed to get a rookie on the field sooner and contributing. Won't that be best value?

With Mendenhall coming on this year and showing that he's got what it takes to be an NFL running back he isn't coming cheap when his contract expires. Drafting another first round running back will put them in a bind financially at that position. I don't see this happening.

Same with the TE, the Steelers just signed Miller and probably have exceeded their allotment for the TE position with his contract having two first rounders at that position will become a financial nightmare.

The only one fron your list that I would select would be the OT. We'll know soon enough if that is a consideration depending on what they do with Colon. Starks is signed long term, if they extend Colon they probably aren't going to draft an OT in round one.

I'd like to see an RB taken second day or even a TE if one they have rated falls their way. But, rounds 1 - 3 should be defense, the offense is going to take off next year, IMO.

Pappy

Following you same logic for RB and TE, didn't we just sign both Starks and Kemo to big contracts? Extend hartwig? Sign Essex? And likely will tag Colon. Just following your logic I have to think we are near the max allocation for the OL too.

Just look at the impact that Percy Harvin and Shonn Green have had on the Vikings and Jets respectively. Rookie RBs with speed can win games for you. Just don't think we can ignore that position because while Mendy is good we do not have any real depth behind him. Moore is limited. Parker will be gone. Summers is a big question mark. Redman is just a pre season illusion.

IMO if we don't get a quality #2 back in the draft or FA then we won't have to worry about discussions about whether we throw too much because we won't have a choice if Mendy gets hurt. You need at least three qualoity backs in the NFL these days. Look at the Ravens with Rice, McGahee and McClain. That is what we need accordining to a vocal portion of this board but yet we don't want to take the biggest game changing RB available in this draft if he is available. Doesn't make sense to me.

Starks is the only linemen breaking the bank. I believe Kemo's contract is average or a bit above average. I'm pretty sure that Hartwig's contrasct could be absorbed with little or no ramifications. That being said, unless, an absolute "can't miss" tackle falls to the Steelers I wouldn't draft an offensive player in the first two rounds. Ben got what he wanted over the past few years, he'll have to make do with Holmes, Mendenhall, Wallace Miller and Ward. I think he'll manage.

I did see the what Harvin did for the Vikes he was only slightly better than Wallace. Mendenhall is easily as good as Shonn Greene, so, I think the Steelers got the impact players on offense they were looking for.

McClain wasn't a first round back and neither is Ray Rice. McGahee may have been back in the day, I',m not sure.

defense, defense, defense and more defense this draft in the early rounds.

Pappy

Shawn
01-22-2010, 02:14 AM
I agree Pappy...we must draft BPA but on the D side of the ball and it doesn't need to be an OLB...anything else I'm ok with.

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2010, 02:20 AM
:Agree pap

[

max got "big" money. kemo is about average for starting OGs, and hartwig's contract is very easily swallowed up if he's cut.

as some others have said, there isn't really a big need for a 2nd TE. dallas tried that approach with taking a TE pretty high with already a good one on the roster(witten) and wound up changing 2nd round pick into a 4th rounder when they dealt him to miami (fasano). they've tried it again with bennent... again, does anyone notice him on the dallas offense?

sure we could use a lil upgrade at the 2nd TE spot, but its probably not even in the top 10 of the priority list. good 2nd TEs could be had later in the draft.

same goes for the RB position. none of those backs you listed in balt were chosen in 1st round. mcgahee was at one point but was traded for much less then that.
as we've seen, there are plenty of productive backs taken later in the draft. i dont think anyone would be against taking one in rounds 3-5 if willie doesn't come back

papillon
01-22-2010, 02:26 AM
:Agree pap
[quote="NJ-STEELER":2aldfq1k][

max got "big" money. kemo is about average for starting OGs, and hartwig's contract is very easily swallowed up if he's cut.

as some others have said, there isn't really a big need for a 2nd TE. dallas tried that approach with taking a TE pretty high with already a good one on the roster(witten) and wound up changing 2nd round pick into a 4th rounder when they dealt him to miami (fasano). they've tried it again with bennent... again, does anyone notice him on the dallas offense?

sure we could use a lil upgrade at the 2nd TE spot, but its probably not even in the top 10 of the priority list. good 2nd TEs could be had later in the draft.

same goes for the RB position. none of those backs you listed in balt were chosen in 1st round. mcgahee was at one point but was traded for much less then that.
as we've seen, there are plenty of productive backs taken later in the draft. i dont think anyone would be against taking one in rounds 3-5 if willie doesn't come back[/quote:2aldfq1k]

Sorry NJ, I didn't see your post when I logged in and was poking around. Lets just say that "great minds" think alike. :shock:

Pappy

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2010, 03:05 AM
:Cheers

ikestops85
01-22-2010, 11:07 AM
I have to go along with Pap and NJ (although nobody has ever confused me with having a great mind :D ). Our early picks should be on the D side of the ball -- anything other than OLB. Maybe if a stud O-lineman drops in the first we can consider but definitely NO skill player on the offense.

We have more than enough weapons on offense and we do a lousy job of utilizing them as it is. The last thing we need is another that we don't use.

Two years ago Moore was a machine at converting 3rd downs and this year we hardly looked at him. We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns? Uh, NO!! We have a TE who as a rookie catch 3 TDs in his first 3 games but do we target him in the red zone? Again, a resounding NO!!

Maybe when Arians and Ben figure out how to use the weapons we already have can we consider getting another one. Until that time I think our glaring need is lack of playmakers on the defensive side of the ball. That should be the focus for this draft.

Oviedo
01-22-2010, 12:14 PM
I have to go along with Pap and NJ (although nobody has ever confused me with having a great mind :D ). Our early picks should be on the D side of the ball -- anything other than OLB. Maybe if a stud O-lineman drops in the first we can consider but definitely NO skill player on the offense.

We have more than enough weapons on offense and we do a lousy job of utilizing them as it is. The last thing we need is another that we don't use.

Two years ago Moore was a machine at converting 3rd downs and this year we hardly looked at him. We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns? Uh, NO!! We have a TE who as a rookie catch 3 TDs in his first 3 games but do we target him in the red zone? Again, a resounding NO!!

Maybe when Arians and Ben figure out how to use the weapons we already have can we consider getting another one. Until that time I think our glaring need is lack of playmakers on the defensive side of the ball. That should be the focus for this draft.


You're following statement is exactly why we should consider CJ Spiller at #18 if he is available because you will be able to get legitimate production out of him at the RB position


We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns?

I'm not saying we will take Spiller because I think it is a slim possibility and no one is more of a defense first guy as me, but when you say we need:


playmakers on the defensive side of the ball

For when? 2011? Because we all know that those player won't do much in 2010. My argument is if you are drafting higher than we typically select in the draft, in Round 1 you can get a player that has an immediate impact. That won't happen if LeBeau gets that player.

All we ever heard on this board were complaints about Timmons not playing, "a bust for the #15 pick," etc, etc. But now we advocate putting another defensive rookie in the same situation picking just three picks later in the draft as he learns the overly complex scheme. Don't think for a second that you are going to get a player like Earl Thomas at #18 and just plug him into the Free Safety position in place of Ryan Clark (who came here as a 4 year veteran) and expect him to do what is required at that position, e.g. read what Troy is doing every play and adjust his positioning and reactions off of that. IMO no way that happens until at least 2011 because of how LeBeau runs the scheme.

Pick on defense at #18 and we are getting a 2011 player.

Oviedo
01-22-2010, 02:09 PM
Great analysis Chadman. But just because they have so many OL on the roster doesn't mean that they couldn't significantly upgrade the talent there. There are a lot of ways they could go in this draft. What you pointed out about our draft picks on CB's last year and Casey's status is probably dead on. Your "mock" draft is pretty intriguing. A lot of people are down on Mays. But a lot of people are fine with Clark if Troy is playing next to him. No one could convince me that Mays would not be an upgrade over Clark, especially when paired with Troy. Drafting a Center in the second fills another need early. Nice work. But I wouldn't be surprised if they took OL with both their first two picks, depending on what they do in free agency.


Unless we sign a starting caliber CB or FS in free agency the Steelers should not go OL with their first two draft picks, there are just way too many other holes to fill. We already have 10 OL on our roster returning next year (Starks, Colon, Kemoeatu, Essex, Hartwig, Foster, Urbik, Legursky, Stapleton, Hills) whereas we have no depth whatsoever at the safety position and a huge hole at CB opposite Ike Taylor. Do we really want to see Gay, Burnett, Lewis, Trae Williams or God forbid Anthony Madison starting there next year? No one will argue that we could use an upgrade on the OL but we need to choose either a safety or a CB in the first 2 rounds next year. When Bruce Gradkowski looks good against your secondary you know there is a problem.

While it is true that 10 OL will return next season, the likes of Legursky, Stapleton & Hills can hardly call themselves 'locks' to get out of Traiing Camp. And the Steelers desire to draft a young OC last season, and subsequent failure to do so, means that drafting an OC early this year is certainly not out of the question. Remember- who backs up Hartwig at this point?

At DB, it would seem 'unlikely' that the Steelers would give up on all the young CB's on the roster- Gay has 1 year of starting experience, Lewis & Burnett were rookies last year, Williams is promising (but no lock to make it out of Training Camp) & Madison is purely ST. Chances are they will draft a CB, but unless Haden falls to #18, or Robinson inspires a lot of confidence, look for rounds 3-4 for CB. Zero depth at Safety though, that means the Steelers will look EARLY at a safety, regardless of Clark leaving or staying.

Just to point out that this is not a good draft for Centers. After Pouncey it is unlikely that the rest are legit starters anytime in the near future. We probably already have better options at Center on the roster with Stapleton, Legursky and, from what I here, Urbik getting some reps there. Some mention Matt Tennant from BC but does anyone realize he is only 290lbs and gets knocked for getting pushed back. IMO he would survive in the AFC North.

The real question about the OL revolves around what they will do with Colon. I can't see any scenario where they don't tag him this year so that secures your RT position so any OT you draft will not play this season unless Colon moves to Guard or Colon or Starks go down to injury.

Therefore that leaves Guard where an upgrade to Essex would seem to be warranted. The best is Mike Iupati from Idaho who probably has the ability to play from Day 1, but do you draft a Guard at #18. If so, he had better be one of the best Guards ever...just my opinion. Plus don't forget you have Stapleton coming back with starters experience and Urbik with a year under his belt plus Legursky and Essex who both can play Guard. Seems crowded to me.

I just don't see us drafting OL unless it would be a OT and that means moving Colon to Guard. Just not a high likelihood in my mind. Plus don't underestimate the new OL coach who took far less talent that we have on the OL in Buffalo and turned them into a very serviceable OL. I don't think he get the #18 pick for his unit because they will want to see what he can do with what he has first.

grotonsteel
01-22-2010, 02:44 PM
[quote=ikestops85]I have to go along with Pap and NJ (although nobody has ever confused me with having a great mind :D ). Our early picks should be on the D side of the ball -- anything other than OLB. Maybe if a stud O-lineman drops in the first we can consider but definitely NO skill player on the offense.

We have more than enough weapons on offense and we do a lousy job of utilizing them as it is. The last thing we need is another that we don't use.

Two years ago Moore was a machine at converting 3rd downs and this year we hardly looked at him. We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns? Uh, NO!! We have a TE who as a rookie catch 3 TDs in his first 3 games but do we target him in the red zone? Again, a resounding NO!!

Maybe when Arians and Ben figure out how to use the weapons we already have can we consider getting another one. Until that time I think our glaring need is lack of playmakers on the defensive side of the ball. That should be the focus for this draft.


You're following statement is exactly why we should consider CJ Spiller at #18 if he is available because you will be able to get legitimate production out of him at the RB position


We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns?

I'm not saying we will take Spiller because I think it is a slim possibility and no one is more of a defense first guy as me, but when you say we need:


playmakers on the defensive side of the ball

For when? 2011? Because we all know that those player won't do much in 2010. My argument is if you are drafting higher than we typically select in the draft, in Round 1 you can get a player that has an immediate impact. That won't happen if LeBeau gets that player.

All we ever heard on this board were complaints about Timmons not playing, "a bust for the #15 pick," etc, etc. But now we advocate putting another defensive rookie in the same situation picking just three picks later in the draft as he learns the overly complex scheme. Don't think for a second that you are going to get a player like Earl Thomas at #18 and just plug him into the Free Safety position in place of Ryan Clark (who came here as a 4 year veteran) and expect him to do what is required at that position, e.g. read what Troy is doing every play and adjust his positioning and reactions off of that. IMO no way that happens until at least 2011 because of how LeBeau runs the scheme.

Pick on defense at #18 and we are getting a 2011 player.[/quote:2537ndpr]

:Agree

With these so called complex Defensive Schemes which confuse Steelers young players we are not going to get any production from 1-18 Defensive player in 2010. It normally takes 2-3 years. So if you go all defense with first two picks in 2010 draft they are not going to help Steelers D in 2010.

My only hope is Art Rooney II has told Dick Lebeau to involve young players and tone down his so called complex schemes so that these young players on roster can contribute.

I am all for drafting Earl Thomas in 1st Rd. I believe he is the next close thing to Troy. I also like the trade Ruthlessburger suggested to draft Eric Berry at #10 if he falls that far.

Steelers will have to sign a FA CB maybe someone like Carlos Rogers to replace William Gay. Draft ILB and NT and make them learn behind Farrior and Big Snack.

cruzer8
01-22-2010, 03:13 PM
Our defensive starters range from solid to spectacular. It doesn't matter who we take or where we take them, they will not start because they are not needed to start.

Here's an example for you with the 3-4 scheme. Last year the Green Bay Packers took BJ Raji, NT, with the 9th overall pick. Raji played in 14 games but started only 1. And this was on a team that had no NT since they were just changing their scheme to the 3-4 with the addition of Dom Capers as DC.

Jom112
01-22-2010, 03:31 PM
Just to point out that this is not a good draft for Centers. After Pouncey it is unlikely that the rest are legit starters anytime in the near future.

J.D. Walton out of Baylor is not bad at all. I watched the Baylor/Nebraska game just to see how he would stack up against Suh and Nebraska's other dominate DT (Whose name eludes me at the moment).

I thought he did alright and held his own (Although the guards next to him sucked it up). Definitely worth a mid-round pick...

papillon
01-22-2010, 03:43 PM
Many of you are assuming that Lebeau's defense is too complex. Chances are the young players simply aren't good enough to replace one of the veterans. The only real head scratcher for me was Burnett and Lewis not being able to displace Gay. Mundy showed absolutely no possibility of being better than Carter or Clark. How do you play him then?

Earl Thomas is potentially an immediate upgrade based on what I've heard and read about him and watched him play one game late in the season when he had a handful of tackles, one for a loss and the others near the LOS. He also had a defensed pass and an INT. It appears that he has the skills to step in and help.

The young guys aren't getting playing time because they aren't good enough, unfortunately, this year, our veterans weren't good enough either.

Pappy

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2010, 03:54 PM
what you guys are missing is that the secondary is a weak spot. if they dont address it now, then we're looking at 2012 as to when we'll see improvement if we go by your logic that rookies dont play....which i feel is a little bit of a fallacy.

hampton, bell, mcfadden, woodley, anthony smith, and even Gay made contributions as rookies.
you have a point on timmons. although i think i rememebr he was one of the youngest players to be drafted that year and also had to learn a new position.

A 1st rd FS might not start right away, but if he's talented he'll play in nickel and dime defenses which contributes to the overall defense.

raji may not have started much , but he was used in a rotation. ryan pickett was rated as the 9th best NT (in a yearly magazine i get) so that may have effected raji playing time there.
what about their other 1st rd pick...clay matthews. he seemed to do pretty well as a rookie going to a 3-4 defense that plays a zone blitz scheme.

Ngata is another guy that thrived in a similar situation.

if the kid has the talent to play...he'll play

Iron Shiek
01-22-2010, 03:55 PM
Many of you are assuming that Lebeau's defense is too complex. Chances are the young players simply aren't good enough to replace one of the veterans. The only real head scratcher for me was Burnett and Lewis not being able to displace Gay. Mundy showed absolutely no possibility of being better than Carter or Clark. How do you play him then?

Earl Thomas is potentially an immediate upgrade based on what I've heard and read about him and watched him play one game late in the season when he had a handful of tackles, one for a loss and the others near the LOS. He also had a defensed pass and an INT. It appears that he has the skills to step in and help.

The young guys aren't getting playing time because they aren't good enough, unfortunately, this year, our veterans weren't good enough either.

Pappy


Come on Pap, just like us fans know what plays are being called on offense, we know more than the coaching staff regarding personnel decisions as well. :twisted:

Oviedo
01-22-2010, 04:45 PM
what you guys are missing is that the secondary is a weak spot. if they dont address it now, then we're looking at 2012 as to when we'll see improvement if we go by your logic that rookies dont play....which i feel is a little bit of a fallacy.

hampton, bell, mcfadden, woodley, anthony smith, and even Gay made contributions as rookies.
you have a point on timmons. although i think i rememebr he was one of the youngest players to be drafted that year and also had to learn a new position.

A 1st rd FS might not start right away, but if he's talented he'll play in nickel and dime defenses which contributes to the overall defense.

raji may not have started much , but he was used in a rotation. ryan pickett was rated as the 9th best NT (in a yearly magazine i get) so that may have effected raji playing time there.
what about their other 1st rd pick...clay matthews. he seemed to do pretty well as a rookie going to a 3-4 defense that plays a zone blitz scheme.

Ngata is another guy that thrived in a similar situation.

if the kid has the talent to play...he'll play

No one said don't address the secondary which is weak, all I have offered is that it may not be the best value at #18 if you wait 18 months to see the benefits.

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2010, 05:05 PM
thats fine.

we waited a year for troy to finally start and that worked out well.
OTOH, Bell started immediately and flamed out just as fast.


how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

flippy
01-22-2010, 05:14 PM
how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2010, 05:21 PM
how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

you can bring back mean joe, dewey white, reggie white and lawrence taylor and if gay/townsend/carter are on the field....they'll still get burnt

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2010, 05:47 PM
how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

how much "worse" was the pass rush this year compared with last?

Shawn
01-22-2010, 05:49 PM
what you guys are missing is that the secondary is a weak spot. if they dont address it now, then we're looking at 2012 as to when we'll see improvement if we go by your logic that rookies dont play....which i feel is a little bit of a fallacy.

hampton, bell, mcfadden, woodley, anthony smith, and even Gay made contributions as rookies.
you have a point on timmons. although i think i rememebr he was one of the youngest players to be drafted that year and also had to learn a new position.

A 1st rd FS might not start right away, but if he's talented he'll play in nickel and dime defenses which contributes to the overall defense.

raji may not have started much , but he was used in a rotation. ryan pickett was rated as the 9th best NT (in a yearly magazine i get) so that may have effected raji playing time there.
what about their other 1st rd pick...clay matthews. he seemed to do pretty well as a rookie going to a 3-4 defense that plays a zone blitz scheme.

Ngata is another guy that thrived in a similar situation.

if the kid has the talent to play...he'll play

No one said don't address the secondary which is weak, all I have offered is that it may not be the best value at #18 if you wait 18 months to see the benefits.

O...I'm fairly surprised with your view on this. Best value doesn't equate to starting their rookie season. I would love for a rookie to be good enough to start but if I think they would need some time it certainly wouldn't keep me from taking him...ie Troy, Mendenhall.

flippy
01-22-2010, 06:06 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":3i7sdjvr]


how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

how much "worse" was the pass rush this year compared with last?[/quote:3i7sdjvr]

I think it was night and day. the front 7 hurt without smith and i think woodley was hurt for the first half and harrison for some of the second half.

plus we seemed to bring less pressure without troy on the field. i can't quantify this, but it seemed like we were more conservative.

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2010, 06:22 PM
i wouldn't want to leave gay or carter exposed by blitzing the house.

they get beat easily enough when they have help

Shawn
01-22-2010, 06:31 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":2cxhosn4]


how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

how much "worse" was the pass rush this year compared with last?

I think it was night and day. the front 7 hurt without smith and i think woodley was hurt for the first half and harrison for some of the second half.

plus we seemed to bring less pressure without troy on the field. i can't quantify this, but it seemed like we were more conservative.[/quote:2cxhosn4]

You are absolutely correct. Our D changed significantly without Troy. It's not just his blitzing ability or his coverage...it's plays a huge role in Lebeau's ability to disguise blitzes, call more types of blitzes etc. Troy being out was a huge blow. There is no doubt in my mind that we make the playoffs with ease this season if Troy would have stayed healthy. Which brings up a huge concern...we are an average D without Troy.

papillon
01-22-2010, 06:39 PM
Many of you are assuming that Lebeau's defense is too complex. Chances are the young players simply aren't good enough to replace one of the veterans. The only real head scratcher for me was Burnett and Lewis not being able to displace Gay. Mundy showed absolutely no possibility of being better than Carter or Clark. How do you play him then?

Earl Thomas is potentially an immediate upgrade based on what I've heard and read about him and watched him play one game late in the season when he had a handful of tackles, one for a loss and the others near the LOS. He also had a defensed pass and an INT. It appears that he has the skills to step in and help.

The young guys aren't getting playing time because they aren't good enough, unfortunately, this year, our veterans weren't good enough either.

Pappy


Come on Pap, just like us fans know what plays are being called on offense, we know more than the coaching staff regarding personnel decisions as well. :twisted:

hehehehehe... :lol: :Beer

Pappy

ikestops85
01-22-2010, 06:52 PM
I'm still not sold on the thought that we have a more complicated defense to learn than anyone else has. Trust me, if we can draft a corner that shows "shutdown" ability that guy will start on day one. That is the only position we have where the starter is not solid.

Now, if we lose/don't re-sign some starters then additional positions can open up for a rookie to start. If we lose clark and draft Thomas I think there is a better than 50% chance he starts because we don't have depth at that position. The same goes for NT if the big snack leaves although with Hoke we have some depth. He is a solid player that would be hard for a rookie to outperform in year 1 so the chances of the rookie starting would lessen.

Our defense is not that complicated that a new player can't come into the system and contribute. Clark came in here and started 12 games his first year IN A NEW POSITION. He had only played strong safety before coming to the burg. How was he able to do that? Easy, we lost our previous year's starter (Hope) and had Logan, Clark and Anthony Smith as backups. Clark got on the field because he was the best of the bunch ... which any rookie can do if he's the best of the bunch.

grotonsteel
01-22-2010, 08:30 PM
I'm still not sold on the thought that we have a more complicated defense to learn than anyone else has. Trust me, if we can draft a corner that shows "shutdown" ability that guy will start on day one. That is the only position we have where the starter is not solid.

Now, if we lose/don't re-sign some starters then additional positions can open up for a rookie to start. If we lose clark and draft Thomas I think there is a better than 50% chance he starts because we don't have depth at that position. The same goes for NT if the big snack leaves although with Hoke we have some depth. He is a solid player that would be hard for a rookie to outperform in year 1 so the chances of the rookie starting would lessen.

Our defense is not that complicated that a new player can't come into the system and contribute. Clark came in here and started 12 games his first year IN A NEW POSITION. He had only played strong safety before coming to the burg. How was he able to do that? Easy, we lost our previous year's starter (Hope) and had Logan, Clark and Anthony Smith as backups. Clark got on the field because he was the best of the bunch ... which any rookie can do if he's the best of the bunch.

I don't think so. Even Troy Polamalu struggled in his first year. People were calling him Bustamalu. I mean Troy is the best Safety in NFL and he struggled as a rookie.

I am not looking for Pro-Bowler in his rookie season but atleast they should be able to take place of a starter if that starter outright sucks or is injured.

There are two ways to look at it. Either Steelers Defensive personnel outright sucks or the playbook is so complex that players are thinking about it instead of playing with instinct.

I find it hard to believe that K Lewis or Joe Burnett could not replace William Gay. So either they are horrible DB's or they are still trying to grasp the playbook. If they are that bad then who are Steelers starting and backup DB next season?

I don't have the exact quote but Ike Taylor said Steelers D playbook has twice more plays than Steelers Offense playbook.It is difficult for a rookie to learn that play book and contribute.


Steelers don't have luxury this season to train people for 3 years on D and then make them starters. There are too many holes on that Steelers D. They are again one injury away from being average in 2010 unless Hood/Harrison/Woodley and Timmons play at an all-pro level.

hawaiiansteel
01-23-2010, 02:38 PM
i wouldn't want to leave gay or carter exposed by blitzing the house.

they get beat easily enough when they have help


Which is exactly why we need to address the defensive secondary in the draft. Tyrone Carter probably won't be re-signed and it doesn't look like the Steelers are that anxious to re-sign Ryan Clark either. Who does that leave at safety, Troy and Ryan Mundy?

If Earl Thomas is there when we pick in the first round we should select him. As for a rookie DB not producing right away because of Mr. LeBeau's complicated defensive schemes, Troy had his ups and downs his rookie season but he turned out worth waiting for, wouldn't you agree?

As for our CB situation, the Steelers are not going to give up on William Gay, Joe Burnett and Keenan Lewis just quite yet, but that doesn't mean they won't bring in another CB for some added competition. I'm not sure I feel comfortable with any of those aforementioned guys starting opposite Ike Taylor next season.

There is a lot of value to be had drafting a CB in the 2nd round in this year's draft as many CBs such as Patrick Robinson, Donovan Warren, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Ghee, Perrish Cox, Trevard Lindley, Javier Arenas, Syd'Quan Thompson, Amari Spievey and Dominique Franks will be available. I say we take the CB we like best as we simply cannot go into next season with the same group of DBs that we had last year.

Shoe
01-23-2010, 06:38 PM
I am NOT a fan of taking a Safety #1 just cuz he fits the bill. (For the record, I did want Polamalu in the 1st).

But I think Safety is not that important, if you could somehow rate positional importance. Given that, I also don't like the idea of tying up so much money in the Safety position (a #1 pick and Troy). Also, as a student of the draft, it seems that many 1st-round Safeties have come and gone, and for my eyes: maybe 5 (Troy, Reed, Bob Sanders) have come and lived up to expectation.

The O-lineman that people were referring to seemed intriguing... and I'm always happy to see a #1 pick on an OL. Mount Cody would be a huge mistake in the first IMO (but palatable as a 3rd, or maybe even 2nd).

NJ-STEELER
01-23-2010, 08:07 PM
i wouldn't want to leave gay or carter exposed by blitzing the house.

they get beat easily enough when they have help


Which is exactly why we need to address the defensive secondary in the draft. Tyrone Carter probably won't be re-signed and it doesn't look like the Steelers are that anxious to re-sign Ryan Clark either. Who does that leave at safety, Troy and Ryan Mundy?

If Earl Thomas is there when we pick in the first round we should select him. As for a rookie DB not producing right away because of Mr. LeBeau's complicated defensive schemes, Troy had his ups and downs his rookie season but he turned out worth waiting for, wouldn't you agree?

As for our CB situation, the Steelers are not going to give up on William Gay, Joe Burnett and Keenan Lewis just quite yet, but that doesn't mean they won't bring in another CB for some added competition. I'm not sure I feel comfortable with any of those aforementioned guys starting opposite Ike Taylor next season.

There is a lot of value to be had drafting a CB in the 2nd round in this year's draft as many CBs such as Patrick Robinson, Donovan Warren, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Ghee, Perrish Cox, Trevard Lindley, Javier Arenas, Syd'Quan Thompson, Amari Spievey and Dominique Franks will be available. I say we take the CB we like best as we simply cannot go into next season with the same group of DBs that we had last year.

you dont have to sell me on it.


i want them to address the secondary first and foremost. be it the draft or free agency

hawaiiansteel
01-27-2010, 01:28 AM
2010 NFL Mock Draft
RotoWorld.com 01/26/10


18. Pittsburgh Steelers: Clemson RB C.J. Spiller

Owner Art Rooney informed Mike Tomlin following the season that he wants the Steelers to be more run-oriented after finishing with a 536:428 pass-to-run ratio. While the NFL is a passing league and offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will continue to air it out, drafting a back like Spiller would satisfy Rooney while immediately upgrading Pittsburgh's stagnant return units. Spiller combined for an NCAA-most five return TDs as a senior. Also finishing with a 5.6 YPC average and 36 catches as Clemson's every-down back, Spiller could provide a Felix Jones-like complement to inside runner Rashard Mendenhall. The Steelers have a big hole at No. 2 tailback.

Oviedo
01-27-2010, 09:14 AM
2010 NFL Mock Draft
RotoWorld.com 01/26/10


18. Pittsburgh Steelers: Clemson RB C.J. Spiller

Owner Art Rooney informed Mike Tomlin following the season that he wants the Steelers to be more run-oriented after finishing with a 536:428 pass-to-run ratio. While the NFL is a passing league and offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will continue to air it out, drafting a back like Spiller would satisfy Rooney while immediately upgrading Pittsburgh's stagnant return units. Spiller combined for an NCAA-most five return TDs as a senior. Also finishing with a 5.6 YPC average and 36 catches as Clemson's every-down back, Spiller could provide a Felix Jones-like complement to inside runner Rashard Mendenhall. The Steelers have a big hole at No. 2 tailback.

Like I've been saying, but you guys are too quick to react to crisis to listen, this is our best possible pick at #18. No other pick in Round 1 will provide the impact Spiller would for the 2010 season. Look at the teams in the play offs that have a change of pace speed runner: Dallas (Jones), Vikings (Harvin), Saints (Bush), Jets (Greene and Washington before he was injured).

As pointed out we have nothing behind Mendenhall and if he gets hurt we won't even be discussing the running game because it won't exist.