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MaxAMillion
01-17-2010, 01:07 AM
I saw the post last week spouting envy about how the Ravens played. You saw today why you can't win a title with that 90's style offense. You have to pass successfully to win. You have to score points and be prepared to pass well when teams take away the run. The Ravens basically throw everything short all game in order to protect Flacco. Meanwhile Peyton has 40 pass attempts through three quarters.

I pray that Tomlin and Arians don't start looking to run it more just because the critics don't like pass first football. The Steelers would have been division champs this year if the defense did not lead the league in blown fourth quarter leads. Not to mention the putrid special teams. The main improvement needed with the offense is being more efficient in the red zone. Meanwhile the defense and special teams need improvement from top to bottom.

I will take Arians calling plays over the Ravens conservative play calling.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-17-2010, 01:51 AM
I saw the post last week spouting envy about how the Ravens played. You saw today why you can't win a title with that 90's style offense. You have to pass successfully to win. You have to score points and be prepared to pass well when teams take away the run. The Ravens basically throw everything short all game in order to protect Flacco. Meanwhile Peyton has 40 pass attempts through three quarters.

I pray that Tomlin and Arians don't start looking to run it more just because the critics don't like pass first football. The Steelers would have been division champs this year if the defense did not lead the league in blown fourth quarter leads. Not to mention the putrid special teams. The main improvement needed with the offense is being more efficient in the red zone. Meanwhile the defense and special teams need improvement from top to bottom.

I will take Arians calling plays over the Ravens conservative play calling.

I'm not defending the Ravens' offense, but it seems like it would only help the Steelers if we were consistently able to run the ball when we need to.

And, BTW, much as you may hate the Ravens' offense (and I'm a Raven-hater from way back), at least they actually made the playoffs, and even won a game in the playoffs this season. All while BA and our Steelers team are sitting at home watching on TV.

devilsdancefloor
01-17-2010, 02:37 AM
the ravens offense is ray rice & a little bit of mason that is it. The problem with BA is situational football if you are leading in the 2nd half you dont go all AL davis and try to throw deep. RUN the damn ball it is that simple. I dont not wanna see 3 yards and a cloud of dust, but know what the situations are.If you want to be a pass heavy team then least make sure we can run the ball as well. We do not play in a dome like the Colts or the Saints or have the pleasure of having weather in December or January that the chargers enjoy. So we are gonna have to run the ball. All you have to look at is the stains game this year 40 passes in crap weather i know i know it is hard to run in 35MPH winds it is a COME ON man moment. If you want to throw 60/40 great but know the situations...

stlrz d
01-17-2010, 02:58 AM
the ravens offense is ray rice & a little bit of mason that is it. The problem with BA is situational football if you are leading in the 2nd half you dont go all AL davis and try to throw deep. RUN the damn ball it is that simple. I dont not wanna see 3 yards and a cloud of dust, but know what the situations are.If you want to be a pass heavy team then least make sure we can run the ball as well. We do not play in a dome like the Colts or the Saints or have the pleasure of having weather in December or January that the chargers enjoy. So we are gonna have to run the ball. All you have to look at is the stains game this year 40 passes in crap weather i know i know it is hard to run in 35MPH winds it is a COME ON man moment. If you want to throw 60/40 great but know the situations...

:Clap

Welcome to the forum!

NorthCoast
01-17-2010, 09:51 AM
Our biggest problems were we could not convert 3rd and short and the defense could not prevent 3rd and long completions. I think that sums it up.

By the way, not sure anyone else noticed a difference in how the ravens and saints runs were set up. It seems most of the running plays had the RB almost at the line of scrimmage as the ball was being handed off. It seemed the QB took maybe two steps away from center and the RB was coming up full speed to the QB. In contrast the Steelers seemed to have Ben run about 5 to 7 yds behind the line where the RB was standing waiting on the hand-off. Just seemed the runs in yesterday's games were much faster at hitting the hole.
Again, it could be a perception thing on my part, or maybe just better blocking by OLs that made the runs look good. Hopefully Kugler can kick somebody's behind and make them better blockers?

DukieBoy
01-17-2010, 10:00 AM
the ravens offense is ray rice & a little bit of mason that is it. The problem with BA is situational football if you are leading in the 2nd half you dont go all AL davis and try to throw deep. RUN the damn ball it is that simple. I dont not wanna see 3 yards and a cloud of dust, but know what the situations are.If you want to be a pass heavy team then least make sure we can run the ball as well. We do not play in a dome like the Colts or the Saints or have the pleasure of having weather in December or January that the chargers enjoy. So we are gonna have to run the ball. All you have to look at is the stains game this year 40 passes in crap weather i know i know it is hard to run in 35MPH winds it is a COME ON man moment. If you want to throw 60/40 great but know the situations...

:Clap

Welcome to the forum!
x2

Iron Shiek
01-17-2010, 10:28 AM
Our biggest problems were we could not convert 3rd and short and the defense could not prevent 3rd and long completions. I think that sums it up.

By the way, not sure anyone else noticed a difference in how the ravens and saints runs were set up. It seems most of the running plays had the RB almost at the line of scrimmage as the ball was being handed off. It seemed the QB took maybe two steps away from center and the RB was coming up full speed to the QB. In contrast the Steelers seemed to have Ben run about 5 to 7 yds behind the line where the RB was standing waiting on the hand-off. Just seemed the runs in yesterday's games were much faster at hitting the hole.
Again, it could be a perception thing on my part, or maybe just better blocking by OLs that made the runs look good. Hopefully Kugler can kick somebody's behind and make them better blockers?
Good observation. They ran with authority.

TallyStiller
01-17-2010, 10:43 AM
We lost one football game in Cleveland becausewe couldn't run the ball. We lost games all season long, any ONE of which turning into a victory puts us in the postseason because we couldn't stop teams from moving the ball in the two minute drill. Understood, the Stains game was the last and greatest indignity, but these things happen in divisional contests - a 12 - 1 Cheats squad lost to the 2 - 11 Dolphins on a Monday Night in '04 before going on to win the Super Bowl. The fact that that game was a must win, though, was set up by MANY failures, relatively few of which can be set at the feet of the offense.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-17-2010, 11:12 AM
only thing i like about their offense is ray rice & some of their linemen. i would trade mendenhall 4 rice in a heartbeat.

Jooser
01-17-2010, 12:42 PM
only thing i like about their offense is ray rice & some of their linemen. i would trade mendenhall 4 rice in a heartbeat.


Nope. :nono

:ratsuck

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 12:49 PM
only thing i like about their offense is ray rice & some of their linemen. i would trade mendenhall 4 rice in a heartbeat.
Rice is nice... but isn't this his second year? People talk about Mendenhall like he is 28. The kid is all of 23 and has one season under his belt and he had 1000 yards on the ground and has good hands.

I think he will have 1400 to 1600 next year barring injury. I think we run a ton of screens too with this new OL coach. I'm excited about Mend. Rice didn't impress me last night. He can burn but he wasn't breaking a lot of tackles last night. Outside of the screen he fumbled on...

SteelerNation1
01-17-2010, 12:55 PM
If the run game is working it rules. If not, it is called being conservative. I'll take BR7 any day of the week. Get the ball in his hands (except when its 10 below zero in Clev going up against 7 guys I've never heard of).

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 01:23 PM
If the run game is working it rules. If not, it is called being conservative. I'll take BR7 any day of the week. Get the ball in his hands (except when its 10 below zero in Clev going up against 7 guys I've never heard of).

Throw the Browns game out.. it was the tale end of a 4 game skid on a Thursday. We stunk... But it wasn't like we were hitting on all cylindars and had a WTF moment. We blew it...

Everyone is an OC though... I bet they are screaming "run the ball"... then when Ben throws a TD they are clapping... or are they still screaming we should have run it?

I think it was the Cincy game... but there was a game we lost where I said we should have run a few more times... a guy on here, I'll call him CC, he told me I didn't know situational football and Ben knew best, plus it's a passing league. It's easy to scream run or pass after a game.

It's a no win situation for an OC...

msp26505
01-17-2010, 01:24 PM
I saw the post last week spouting envy about how the Ravens played. You saw today why you can't win a title with that 90's style offense. You have to pass successfully to win. You have to score points and be prepared to pass well when teams take away the run. The Ravens basically throw everything short all game in order to protect Flacco. Meanwhile Peyton has 40 pass attempts through three quarters.

I pray that Tomlin and Arians don't start looking to run it more just because the critics don't like pass first football. The Steelers would have been division champs this year if the defense did not lead the league in blown fourth quarter leads. Not to mention the putrid special teams. The main improvement needed with the offense is being more efficient in the red zone. Meanwhile the defense and special teams need improvement from top to bottom.

I will take Arians calling plays over the Ravens conservative play calling.
The Ravens were protecting Flacco like the Steelers protected Ben early in his career. Baltimore knew they could run the ball, but probably didn't have enough trust in Flacco yet to put the game on his shoulders.

I have tried to drive home the point that with Ben now being more experienced, the addition of a punishing running game could make this offense nearly unstoppable, because it could either strike quickly or milk clock as the situation warranted.

Right now, they are able to put up nice stats, but in reality are very one-dimensional. I doubt many believe that if the Steelers HAD to run for one reason or another that they would be able to do so effectively over the long term. Most of their rushing yards come as a result of defenses' expectation of the pass, which is fine, but I'd also like to have the ability to just line up and run even when teams expect it.

I am happy that ARII suggested that the running game would be addressed.

Aside from simply scoring points, the offense also dictates the tempo of the game, and the 2009 offense could not do that.

grotonsteel
01-17-2010, 01:29 PM
Man i wish Steelers had Colts D. Colts D was flying over. I don't recollect Steelers playing a game like that last season.

They are without their best safety Bob Sanders and still that Defense creates turnovers and shows up for games.

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 01:42 PM
msp... I remember when we used to say "if we could just throw it"
I think we got away from our smashmouth when Ben was seen as the future. I think we run
more but will never look like the Ravens. I don't want to be that run heavy either. I like the Saints balance... They run more then you would think but it's not with big heavies...

I did see a lot of empty backfield with the Saints and also with Dallas. I know we aren't in a dome but I wonder if it's used more then we think. It's a quick design play but we know Ben likes to hold the ball...

msp26505
01-17-2010, 01:45 PM
msp... I remember when we used to say "if we could just throw it"
I think we got away from our smashmouth when Ben was seen as the future. I think we run
more but will never look like the Ravens. I don't want to be that run heavy either. I like the Saints balance... They run more then you would think but it's not with big heavies...

I did see a lot of empty backfield with the Saints and also with Dallas. I know we aren't in a dome but I wonder if it's used more then we think. It's a quick design play but we know Ben likes to hold the ball...

Agreed. I don't want to go back to Cowherball as a primary offensive philosophy, but I want to be able to pound teams when necessary...especially in the second halves of games once we have the lead.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-17-2010, 02:13 PM
double post

Mister Pittsburgh
01-17-2010, 02:14 PM
only thing i like about their offense is ray rice & some of their linemen. i would trade mendenhall 4 rice in a heartbeat.
Rice is nice... but isn't this his second year? People talk about Mendenhall like he is 28. The kid is all of 23 and has one season under his belt and he had 1000 yards on the ground and has good hands.

I think he will have 1400 to 1600 next year barring injury. I think we run a ton of screens too with this new OL coach. I'm excited about Mend. Rice didn't impress me last night. He can burn but he wasn't breaking a lot of tackles last night. Outside of the screen he fumbled on...

Ray Rice
254 rushing attempts - 1,339 yards - 5.3 avg - 7TD
78 receptions - 702 yards - 9.0 avg - 1TD
2nd round pick - 55th overall

Rashard Mendenhall
242 rushing attempts - 1,108 yards - 4.6 avg - 7TD
25 receptions - 261 yards - 10.4 avg - 1TD
1st round pick - 23rd overall

Rice would be a better fit for the Steelers offense that they are trying to run and is more explosive with the ball in his hands then Mendenhall is. Just my opinion. He had 2 more catches than Heath, 53 more catches than Mendenhall, and 39 more than Wallace. Add to it that he is just about the only weapon Baltimore has besides Derick Mason and I would guess it is a whole hell of a lot easier for D's to concentrate on shutting him down vs. Mendenhall yet he put up a lot better numbers than Mendenhall.

Not saying Rashard won't eventually be a total asset to our offense, but at this point Rice is far superior.

SteelTorch
01-17-2010, 02:27 PM
I saw the post last week spouting envy about how the Ravens played. You saw today why you can't win a title with that 90's style offense. You have to pass successfully to win. You have to score points and be prepared to pass well when teams take away the run. The Ravens basically throw everything short all game in order to protect Flacco. Meanwhile Peyton has 40 pass attempts through three quarters.

I pray that Tomlin and Arians don't start looking to run it more just because the critics don't like pass first football. The Steelers would have been division champs this year if the defense did not lead the league in blown fourth quarter leads. Not to mention the putrid special teams. The main improvement needed with the offense is being more efficient in the red zone. Meanwhile the defense and special teams need improvement from top to bottom.

I will take Arians calling plays over the Ravens conservative play calling.

I'm not defending the Ravens' offense, but it seems like it would only help the Steelers if we were consistently able to run the ball when we need to.

And, BTW, much as you may hate the Ravens' offense (and I'm a Raven-hater from way back), at least they actually made the playoffs, and even won a game in the playoffs this season. All while BA and our Steelers team are sitting at home watching on TV.
You can't really use that as an example. They made the playoffs off of technicalities alone. Don't forget they went 9-7, just like us, and they split the divisional series with us. Even then, they only beat us with Dennis Dixon filling in.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-17-2010, 02:50 PM
I saw the post last week spouting envy about how the Ravens played. You saw today why you can't win a title with that 90's style offense. You have to pass successfully to win. You have to score points and be prepared to pass well when teams take away the run. The Ravens basically throw everything short all game in order to protect Flacco. Meanwhile Peyton has 40 pass attempts through three quarters.

I pray that Tomlin and Arians don't start looking to run it more just because the critics don't like pass first football. The Steelers would have been division champs this year if the defense did not lead the league in blown fourth quarter leads. Not to mention the putrid special teams. The main improvement needed with the offense is being more efficient in the red zone. Meanwhile the defense and special teams need improvement from top to bottom.

I will take Arians calling plays over the Ravens conservative play calling.

I'm not defending the Ravens' offense, but it seems like it would only help the Steelers if we were consistently able to run the ball when we need to.

And, BTW, much as you may hate the Ravens' offense (and I'm a Raven-hater from way back), at least they actually made the playoffs, and even won a game in the playoffs this season. All while BA and our Steelers team are sitting at home watching on TV.
You can't really use that as an example. They made the playoffs off of technicalities alone. Don't forget they went 9-7, just like us, and they split the divisional series with us. Even then, they only beat us with Dennis Dixon filling in.

They dominated us in the second meeting with Ben. Untimely and stupid penalties committed by them were the only thing that prevented them from kicking the Steelers arses. Sorry, I hate them too, but just being real. A W is a W, but they dominated us.

buckeyehoppy
01-17-2010, 03:13 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":opbj0k8s]only thing i like about their offense is ray rice & some of their linemen. i would trade mendenhall 4 rice in a heartbeat.
Rice is nice... but isn't this his second year? People talk about Mendenhall like he is 28. The kid is all of 23 and has one season under his belt and he had 1000 yards on the ground and has good hands.

I think he will have 1400 to 1600 next year barring injury. I think we run a ton of screens too with this new OL coach. I'm excited about Mend. Rice didn't impress me last night. He can burn but he wasn't breaking a lot of tackles last night. Outside of the screen he fumbled on...

Ray Rice
254 rushing attempts - 1,339 yards - 5.3 avg - 7TD
78 receptions - 702 yards - 9.0 avg - 1TD
2nd round pick - 55th overall

Rashard Mendenhall
242 rushing attempts - 1,108 yards - 4.6 avg - 7TD
25 receptions - 261 yards - 10.4 avg - 1TD
1st round pick - 23rd overall

Rice would be a better fit for the Steelers offense that they are trying to run and is more explosive with the ball in his hands then Mendenhall is. Just my opinion. He had 2 more catches than Heath, 53 more catches than Mendenhall, and 39 more than Wallace. Add to it that he is just about the only weapon Baltimore has besides Derick Mason and I would guess it is a whole hell of a lot easier for D's to concentrate on shutting him down vs. Mendenhall yet he put up a lot better numbers than Mendenhall.

Not saying Rashard won't eventually be a total asset to our offense, but at this point Rice is far superior.[/quote:opbj0k8s]

I see your point, Mr. PGH. My point would be that the Steelers need what would be called a balanced offense. If Bruce Arians understood what a balanced offense was all about, I guarantee Mendy's ground #s would be superior to Rice's and he would have receiving #s closer to Rice's.

BA has to understand this. He had to have some people in the org. go to bat for him to still have a job. He prolly benefited from the Steeler Way of not throwing the baby out with the bath water. That's not a bad thing. But BA is singing for his supper next season. Something has to change. Getting Mendy more involved in the offense has to be part of that equation.

Ray Rice is not a bad measuring stick for Mendy. Let's face it... Rice would get a lot more love here if he didn't play for one of the arch-enemies. OTOH, he also benefits from an offensive scheme that knows how to use his talent. Mendy should be so fortunate.

SteelTorch
01-17-2010, 03:17 PM
I saw the post last week spouting envy about how the Ravens played. You saw today why you can't win a title with that 90's style offense. You have to pass successfully to win. You have to score points and be prepared to pass well when teams take away the run. The Ravens basically throw everything short all game in order to protect Flacco. Meanwhile Peyton has 40 pass attempts through three quarters.

I pray that Tomlin and Arians don't start looking to run it more just because the critics don't like pass first football. The Steelers would have been division champs this year if the defense did not lead the league in blown fourth quarter leads. Not to mention the putrid special teams. The main improvement needed with the offense is being more efficient in the red zone. Meanwhile the defense and special teams need improvement from top to bottom.

I will take Arians calling plays over the Ravens conservative play calling.

I'm not defending the Ravens' offense, but it seems like it would only help the Steelers if we were consistently able to run the ball when we need to.

And, BTW, much as you may hate the Ravens' offense (and I'm a Raven-hater from way back), at least they actually made the playoffs, and even won a game in the playoffs this season. All while BA and our Steelers team are sitting at home watching on TV.
You can't really use that as an example. They made the playoffs off of technicalities alone. Don't forget they went 9-7, just like us, and they split the divisional series with us. Even then, they only beat us with Dennis Dixon filling in.

They dominated us in the second meeting with Ben. Untimely and stupid penalties committed by them were the only thing that prevented them from kicking the Steelers arses. Sorry, I hate them too, but just being real. A W is a W, but they dominated us.
So what's your point then - that because the Ravens "dominated" us in one game, we should try to emulate their offense?

BURGH86STEEL
01-17-2010, 03:36 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2b35jeqw]only thing i like about their offense is ray rice & some of their linemen. i would trade mendenhall 4 rice in a heartbeat.
Rice is nice... but isn't this his second year? People talk about Mendenhall like he is 28. The kid is all of 23 and has one season under his belt and he had 1000 yards on the ground and has good hands.

I think he will have 1400 to 1600 next year barring injury. I think we run a ton of screens too with this new OL coach. I'm excited about Mend. Rice didn't impress me last night. He can burn but he wasn't breaking a lot of tackles last night. Outside of the screen he fumbled on...

Ray Rice
254 rushing attempts - 1,339 yards - 5.3 avg - 7TD
78 receptions - 702 yards - 9.0 avg - 1TD
2nd round pick - 55th overall

Rashard Mendenhall
242 rushing attempts - 1,108 yards - 4.6 avg - 7TD
25 receptions - 261 yards - 10.4 avg - 1TD
1st round pick - 23rd overall

Rice would be a better fit for the Steelers offense that they are trying to run and is more explosive with the ball in his hands then Mendenhall is. Just my opinion. He had 2 more catches than Heath, 53 more catches than Mendenhall, and 39 more than Wallace. Add to it that he is just about the only weapon Baltimore has besides Derick Mason and I would guess it is a whole hell of a lot easier for D's to concentrate on shutting him down vs. Mendenhall yet he put up a lot better numbers than Mendenhall.

Not saying Rashard won't eventually be a total asset to our offense, but at this point Rice is far superior.

I see your point, Mr. PGH. My point would be that the Steelers need what would be called a balanced offense. If Bruce Arians understood what a balanced offense was all about, I guarantee Mendy's ground #s would be superior to Rice's and he would have receiving #s closer to Rice's.

BA has to understand this. He had to have some people in the org. go to bat for him to still have a job. He prolly benefited from the Steeler Way of not throwing the baby out with the bath water. That's not a bad thing. But BA is singing for his supper next season. Something has to change. Getting Mendy more involved in the offense has to be part of that equation.

Ray Rice is not a bad measuring stick for Mendy. Let's face it... Rice would get a lot more love here if he didn't play for one of the arch-enemies. OTOH, he also benefits from an offensive scheme that knows how to use his talent. Mendy should be so fortunate.[/quote:2b35jeqw]

My opinion is if the RB is catching 78 passes, it is probably because the team has issues at the QB and WR positions.

How do you know that people in the organization went to bat for BA to save his job? Do you have an inside tip or is it speculation? I think Mr. Rooney himself said that was not the case.

Time will tell if they can get Mendehall more involved in the offense with Ben's ego. I believe the will lean on Ben when the going gets tough. They will also have to find a way to correct that problems with special teams and defense. IMO, the defense is the biggest area that needs to be addressed. They won't go very far with a defense that gives up game winning drives.

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 03:46 PM
Mendenhall could have Rice numbers if all we had was Mason at WR. I don't think Rice's stats are impressive... that isn't balance, it's a recipe for a short career. If Mendenhall had 75 catches we would have torches and pitchforks screaming for BA's head for ignoring Wallace and Holmes.

Oviedo
01-17-2010, 03:55 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1msovn5m]only thing i like about their offense is ray rice & some of their linemen. i would trade mendenhall 4 rice in a heartbeat.
Rice is nice... but isn't this his second year? People talk about Mendenhall like he is 28. The kid is all of 23 and has one season under his belt and he had 1000 yards on the ground and has good hands.

I think he will have 1400 to 1600 next year barring injury. I think we run a ton of screens too with this new OL coach. I'm excited about Mend. Rice didn't impress me last night. He can burn but he wasn't breaking a lot of tackles last night. Outside of the screen he fumbled on...

Ray Rice
254 rushing attempts - 1,339 yards - 5.3 avg - 7TD
78 receptions - 702 yards - 9.0 avg - 1TD
2nd round pick - 55th overall

Rashard Mendenhall
242 rushing attempts - 1,108 yards - 4.6 avg - 7TD
25 receptions - 261 yards - 10.4 avg - 1TD
1st round pick - 23rd overall

Rice would be a better fit for the Steelers offense that they are trying to run and is more explosive with the ball in his hands then Mendenhall is. Just my opinion. He had 2 more catches than Heath, 53 more catches than Mendenhall, and 39 more than Wallace. Add to it that he is just about the only weapon Baltimore has besides Derick Mason and I would guess it is a whole hell of a lot easier for D's to concentrate on shutting him down vs. Mendenhall yet he put up a lot better numbers than Mendenhall.

Not saying Rashard won't eventually be a total asset to our offense, but at this point Rice is far superior.[/quote:1msovn5m]

Rice is a Raven. Mendenhall is a Steeler. What's the point unless there is going to be a trade.

Projecting performance if you switched them and assuming they would be similar is quite a reach.

NorthCoast
01-17-2010, 04:00 PM
Mendenhall could have Rice numbers if all we had was Mason at WR. I don't think Rice's stats are impressive... that isn't balance, it's a recipe for a short career. If Mendenhall had 75 catches we would have torches and pitchforks screaming for BA's head for ignoring Wallace and Holmes.

Not sure which games you were watching but an honest fan would agree that Rice>Mendenhall at this point. Rice had plenty of YAC in games I have seen, hits holes like a ton of bricks and to me, looks like a mini-Bettis. This is hate on Mendenhall, it's like on Rice.

BTW, I think the "1,000 yd" yardstick is no longer relevant. I think half the teams in the league have a RB that makes that threshold. I think the new mark should be something like 1400 or 1500 yds given the season is now 16 games (and maybe more in the very near future).

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 04:16 PM
Mendenhall could have Rice numbers if all we had was Mason at WR. I don't think Rice's stats are impressive... that isn't balance, it's a recipe for a short career. If Mendenhall had 75 catches we would have torches and pitchforks screaming for BA's head for ignoring Wallace and Holmes.

Not sure which games you were watching but an honest fan would agree that Rice>Mendenhall at this point. Rice had plenty of YAC in games I have seen, hits holes like a ton of bricks and to me, looks like a mini-Bettis. This is hate on Mendenhall, it's like on Rice.

BTW, I think the "1,000 yd" yardstick is no longer relevant. I think half the teams in the league have a RB that makes that threshold. I think the new mark should be something like 1400 or 1500 yds given the season is now 16 games (and maybe more in the very near future).

I think if we relied on Mend as much as the Ravens relied on Rice he would have similar numbers. Mend didn't play 16 games either and we all agree he needs more touches.

Rice had the better year but I'm excited about Mendenhall and think next year most Rice fans will be wishing they had Mendenhall.

stlrz d
01-17-2010, 04:39 PM
Ravens fans love Rice but the smart ones -there are some- hate that he is their entire offense.

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 04:42 PM
Ravens fans love Rice but the smart ones -there are some- hate that he is their entire offense.

yet some Steeler fans want the Ravens unbalanced production... but hate an unbalanced offense.

msp26505
01-17-2010, 06:50 PM
yet some Steeler fans want the Ravens unbalanced production... but hate an unbalanced offense.

I've seen this idea suggested by both you and Oveido in the last two threads I read.

It might be true, but I suspect it is not. Can you cite specific posters and examples where this idea is put forth?

Otherwise, it's just a strawman argument.

I think that more likely, there are folks who, like myself, want the Steelers to be able to run more effectively rather than run (almost) exclusively.

In fact, while I haven't done any intensive research on this board, I have seen NO ONE who has suggested anything other than what I am suggesting...

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 07:09 PM
yet some Steeler fans want the Ravens unbalanced production... but hate an unbalanced offense.

I've seen this idea suggested by both you and Oveido in the last two threads I read.

It might be true, but I suspect it is not. Can you cite specific posters and examples where this idea is put forth?

Otherwise, it's just a strawman argument.

I think that more likely, there are folks who, like myself, want the Steelers to be able to run more effectively rather than run (almost) exclusively.

In fact, while I haven't done any intensive research on this board, I have seen NO ONE who has suggested anything other than what I am suggesting...

not sure I follow... That statement is about Rice's production and those who envy it. He is there whole offense and I think pointing out his stats are misleading because he is their primary weapon.

I thought the thread was about wanting a balanced offense that can run as well as it passes. I think using an unbalanced run offenses running back production is odd.

My bad... but is it the "some fans" that gets under your skin? If so... if you are not one of those fans then it shouldn't bother you. If I have a particular poster or comment I disagree with I'll quote them. Some fans... means just that... some fans.

msp26505
01-17-2010, 07:43 PM
yet some Steeler fans want the Ravens unbalanced production... but hate an unbalanced offense.

I've seen this idea suggested by both you and Oveido in the last two threads I read.

It might be true, but I suspect it is not. Can you cite specific posters and examples where this idea is put forth?

Otherwise, it's just a strawman argument.

I think that more likely, there are folks who, like myself, want the Steelers to be able to run more effectively rather than run (almost) exclusively.

In fact, while I haven't done any intensive research on this board, I have seen NO ONE who has suggested anything other than what I am suggesting...

not sure I follow... That statement is about Rice's production and those who envy it. He is there whole offense and I think pointing out his stats are misleading because he is their primary weapon.

I thought the thread was about wanting a balanced offense that can run as well as it passes. I think using an unbalanced run offenses running back production is odd.

My bad.

My comment wasn't about the overall thread, it was about you and Oveido asserting that folks wanted to go to a purely running offense.

I hadn't seen anybody suggesting they wanted that, so I posed the same question to both you and Oveido.

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 08:04 PM
yet some Steeler fans want the Ravens unbalanced production... but hate an unbalanced offense.

I've seen this idea suggested by both you and Oveido in the last two threads I read.

It might be true, but I suspect it is not. Can you cite specific posters and examples where this idea is put forth?

Otherwise, it's just a strawman argument.

I think that more likely, there are folks who, like myself, want the Steelers to be able to run more effectively rather than run (almost) exclusively.

In fact, while I haven't done any intensive research on this board, I have seen NO ONE who has suggested anything other than what I am suggesting...

not sure I follow... That statement is about Rice's production and those who envy it. He is there whole offense and I think pointing out his stats are misleading because he is their primary weapon.

I thought the thread was about wanting a balanced offense that can run as well as it passes. I think using an unbalanced run offenses running back production is odd.

My bad.

My comment wasn't about the overall thread, it was about you and Oveido asserting that folks wanted to go to a purely running offense.

I hadn't seen anybody suggesting they wanted that, so I posed the same question to both you and Oveido.

I don't think either of us have stated anyone wanting to go back to a purely running offense...
please recognize some of my post may contain sarcasm. I think everyone wants to run more.. myself included. I like the Saints balance myself. If we were run heavy I wouldn't use the Pat* or Colts as examples of passing production I would like to emulate.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-18-2010, 09:28 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1twcf5v0]only thing i like about their offense is ray rice & some of their linemen. i would trade mendenhall 4 rice in a heartbeat.
Rice is nice... but isn't this his second year? People talk about Mendenhall like he is 28. The kid is all of 23 and has one season under his belt and he had 1000 yards on the ground and has good hands.

I think he will have 1400 to 1600 next year barring injury. I think we run a ton of screens too with this new OL coach. I'm excited about Mend. Rice didn't impress me last night. He can burn but he wasn't breaking a lot of tackles last night. Outside of the screen he fumbled on...

Ray Rice
254 rushing attempts - 1,339 yards - 5.3 avg - 7TD
78 receptions - 702 yards - 9.0 avg - 1TD
2nd round pick - 55th overall

Rashard Mendenhall
242 rushing attempts - 1,108 yards - 4.6 avg - 7TD
25 receptions - 261 yards - 10.4 avg - 1TD
1st round pick - 23rd overall

Rice would be a better fit for the Steelers offense that they are trying to run and is more explosive with the ball in his hands then Mendenhall is. Just my opinion. He had 2 more catches than Heath, 53 more catches than Mendenhall, and 39 more than Wallace. Add to it that he is just about the only weapon Baltimore has besides Derick Mason and I would guess it is a whole hell of a lot easier for D's to concentrate on shutting him down vs. Mendenhall yet he put up a lot better numbers than Mendenhall.

Not saying Rashard won't eventually be a total asset to our offense, but at this point Rice is far superior.

Rice is a Raven. Mendenhall is a Steeler. What's the point unless there is going to be a trade.

Projecting performance if you switched them and assuming they would be similar is quite a reach.[/quote:1twcf5v0]

The Steelers offense is the Steelers offense and Ravens the Ravens. If that is end of discusson then why does this thread exist? LOL! Jeez! :lol:

phillyesq
01-18-2010, 09:56 AM
I think that more likely, there are folks who, like myself, want the Steelers to be able to run more effectively rather than run (almost) exclusively.


Please count me among those who want to be able to run more effectively. The refusal to use the running game in Cleveland (or the inability to do so) accounted for one loss. Against the Raiders, Ben couldn't convert a sneak after Mendy couldn't get things done, contributing to another loss.

I don't necessarily want to see the Steelers go back to running the ball 55-60% of the time. I would like to see them be able to blow people off the ball and impose their will on their opponents when they want or need to.

SteelAbility
01-18-2010, 10:00 AM
More like the Ravens on D? Somewhere between maybe and yes. More like the Ravens on O. No way.

We're just a Hiloti Ngata away from being just like the Ravens on D.

Oviedo
01-18-2010, 12:20 PM
yet some Steeler fans want the Ravens unbalanced production... but hate an unbalanced offense.

I've seen this idea suggested by both you and Oveido in the last two threads I read.

It might be true, but I suspect it is not. Can you cite specific posters and examples where this idea is put forth?

Otherwise, it's just a strawman argument.

I think that more likely, there are folks who, like myself, want the Steelers to be able to run more effectively rather than run (almost) exclusively.

In fact, while I haven't done any intensive research on this board, I have seen NO ONE who has suggested anything other than what I am suggesting...

not sure I follow... That statement is about Rice's production and those who envy it. He is there whole offense and I think pointing out his stats are misleading because he is their primary weapon.

I thought the thread was about wanting a balanced offense that can run as well as it passes. I think using an unbalanced run offenses running back production is odd.

My bad.

My comment wasn't about the overall thread, it was about you and Oveido asserting that folks wanted to go to a purely running offense.

I hadn't seen anybody suggesting they wanted that, so I posed the same question to both you and Oveido.

Don't misrepresent what I say. I never said anyone wanted to go to a run only offense since that hasn't existed ever in the NFL. Get your facts straight.

All I have ever said is that this is a pass first league now and the best teams tend to throw more than run and I have no desire to reverse those percentages like other do. It is not a coincidence that the two favorites going into next weekends games are ranked #31 and #32 in the league in rushing. Maybe they win, maybe they don't but you have to be able to match the offensive output of teams like that.

feltdizz
01-18-2010, 01:24 PM
Who doesn't want to run more effectively? Pass more effectively? Defend the pass better? Convert more 3rds on O and D?

Bringing back Lebeau and BA doesn't mean we want to bring back the bad performance in those games mentioned. I think Mend is going to have a great season next year.

RuthlessBurgher
01-18-2010, 04:48 PM
It is not a coincidence that the two favorites going into next weekends games are ranked #31 and #32 in the league in rushing.

Not quite. The Colts may have been dead last in rushing offense, but the Saints were 6th in the league (New Orleans ran for more than 2100 yards as a team).

The team that was 31st in the league in rushing (Chargers) was eliminated yesterday by the team that led the league in rushing (Jets).

Sugar
01-18-2010, 05:34 PM
My suspicion is that even if RM is every bit the back that most Steeler fans think he is or even better; he's still only the third best back in the AFC North. That doesn't mean he's not sweet or that we can't be a very effective running offense when needed, it just means our talent at the position isn't what the Bengals or Ravens have.

That said, I think that BB is solidly the best QB in the division and we have an excellent compliment of receivers for him to throw to- especially if we continue to incorporate Heath more.

IMO, we don't need to run more but just play a bit better situational ball and improve in the red zone. Other than that, the O is just fine. The D and ST on the other hand... :HeadBanger

feltdizz
01-18-2010, 05:57 PM
My suspicion is that even if RM is every bit the back that most Steeler fans think he is or even better; he's still only the third best back in the AFC North. That doesn't mean he's not sweet or that we can't be a very effective running offense when needed, it just means our talent at the position isn't what the Bengals or Ravens have.

That said, I think that BB is solidly the best QB in the division and we have an excellent compliment of receivers for him to throw to- especially if we continue to incorporate Heath more.

IMO, we don't need to run more but just play a bit better situational ball and improve in the red zone. Other than that, the O is just fine. The D and ST on the other hand... :HeadBanger
Well said.... I think RM is going to be the best RB in our division next year. He averaged around 5 yards a carry and he is a weapon in the passing game. We finally ran a screen and will run more next year.

Mendenhall is a beast... He should get 1500 and 500 in 16 games if healthy next year. I just hope he stops spinning.

Iron Shiek
01-18-2010, 07:28 PM
Run him til the wheels fall off! Oh wait... :(

feltdizz
01-18-2010, 07:38 PM
Run him til the wheels fall off! Oh wait... :(
While it sounded rah rah at the time.. looking back it was an awful idea...

Unless we play GB or AZ next ear I would love to see Mend get at least 15 touches a game. The GB production was nice too..

papillon
01-18-2010, 08:06 PM
yet some Steeler fans want the Ravens unbalanced production... but hate an unbalanced offense.

I've seen this idea suggested by both you and Oveido in the last two threads I read.

It might be true, but I suspect it is not. Can you cite specific posters and examples where this idea is put forth?

Otherwise, it's just a strawman argument.

I think that more likely, there are folks who, like myself, want the Steelers to be able to run more effectively rather than run (almost) exclusively.

In fact, while I haven't done any intensive research on this board, I have seen NO ONE who has suggested anything other than what I am suggesting...

This, of course, is the ideal solution to the problem of our running attack. However, to be effective running the ball when you need to run the ball you have to be dedicated to the run and being dedicated to the run means being the Jets or Ravens. Without the linemen getting into rhythm, without the back getting into a rhythm you don't just turn on the running game and try to burn clock in the 4th quarter.

Bettis was good at this because the defense had to tackle his big @$$ 20 times in the first three quarters and then saw him 8. 9, 10 more times in the 4th quarter when they were tired of shedding 300 pound linemen and tackling a 20 pound halfback.

Even the Vikings with Peterson rely on Favre to move the chains late in the gamer to keep the clock moving, because, they don't send Peterson in their 20 times in three quarters to wear down the defense, nobody does, except teams with great defenses, good running backs and average to below average quarterbacks.

If you have a quarterback you trust these days you're going to use him. I'm hoping for bigger plays from Mendenhall early in games next year and hopefully, he's able to chew some clock late or, at least, put the Steelers in 3rd and manageable to salt the game away.

Without renewed dedication to the run I just don't see the Steelers running game being dominant. It will be good and there will be big plays that come out of it, but it isn't going to be the clock burned we would all like, IMO.

Pappy

feltdizz
01-18-2010, 10:12 PM
Pappy said it best. Also think about 2008 and how great the Ravens run attack was against us. It wasn't. It looks great against the Pats* so it was played over and over again for a week. However, any other year we laugh at the Ravens production or lack of it.

I'm surprised more people aren't using the Saints O as an example.

devilsdancefloor
01-18-2010, 11:17 PM
Rice had so many catches becuase the WR corps couldnt get open so flacco dumped it off to him. I do NOT want to see the steelers O to come anywhere near that pathetic. i threw up in my mouth a little when i read someone thinks we have the 3rd best RB in the AFCN.