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RuthlessBurgher
01-13-2010, 11:47 AM
In another thread, Chadman asked the eternal question...do we draft for need, or take the best player available?

Well, the answer is a combination of the two...we draft the best player available at a position of need. By that, I mean that we may spend our first round pick on a d-lineman, o-lineman, free safety, cornerback, or inside linebacker. We may draft an OLB, RB, TE, or WR in this draft for depth purposes, but I think those choices will be made in the mid-to-late rounds, not with our premium picks.

Looking at the first round possibilities at those designated positions of need...let's break it down:

The best cornerback and inside linebacker, Florida's Joe Haden and Alabama's Rolando McClain, will likely be gone before we pick at #18, and the second best CB and ILB would not be value picks at #18, so the only way that we take a CB or ILB in the first without trading up or down would be if Haden or McClain happened to fall to #18 (unlikely, but still a possibility worth considering).

Among the d-lineman, we likely will not take a 3-4 DE in the first round for a second year in a row after taking Ziggy with our first pick last year. However, we could take a nose tackle, considering the age of Hampton and Hoke, and the fact that Casey is an unrestricted free agent this offseason. Alabama's Terrence Cody and Tennessee's Dan Williams are possibilities.

Among the o-lineman, there aren't any elite centers or guards worthy of being picked at #18, but we could possibly get an offensive tackle, which is normally hard to find where we typically pick in the late first round. Since Willie Colon will likely be a restricted free agent again if no new CBA is ratified, we can keep Colon for one more year while the rookie OT gets accustomed to the pro game. Or, if we sign an OT who is good enough to start as a rookie (remember, Michael Oher was taken with the 23rd pick in the first round last season, and he was a productive starter in Baltimore), perhaps the new o-line coach may decide to try Colon at guard, which previously o-line coach Larry Zeirlein was unwilling to consider. The top 3 OT's will likely be off the board in the top half of the first round (Oklahoma State's Russell Okung, Maryland's Bruce Campbell, and Rutgers' Anthony Davis), so we would be looking at the 4th or 5th best OT (such as Iowa's Bryan Bulaga or Oklahoma's Trent Williams).

Among the free safeties, Tennessee's Eric Berry is the cream of the crop (being compared favorably with Ed Reed) but he will likely be taken in the top 6 or so. I mentioned in another thread that if he happens to fall unexpectedly to #10 because teams do not tend to emphasize safety as much as other positions...particularly free safety (remember, no one expected Michael Crabtree to fall to #10 last year), then we should trade our 1st and 2nd round picks to Jacksonville so they could take Tim Tebow at #18 and recoup the 2nd round pick they traded to the Patriots last year. Getting Troy back and adding Berry would be transforming a secondary without any playmaking skill into a secondary with elite playmaking skill overnight. However, that situation is not all that realistic (just my yearly pipe dream). The more likely scenario would be to take the second best free safety on the board, Texas' Earl Thomas. Even though I am not among those folks recommending drafting USC's Taylor Mays to play strong safety and moving fellow Trojan Troy Polamalu to free safety, that remains a possibility as well.

At this point, I would be surprised if our first round pick was not one of these 8 players (listed in alphabetical order).

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1015/ncf_g_bulaga11_300.jpg

Bryan Bulaga



http://anotherbeautifulday.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/tcody.jpg

Terrence Cody



http://thematadorsports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/JH.jpg

Joe Haden



http://moretalk.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/taylor-mays.jpg

Taylor Mays



http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/cory_mccartney/11/05/lsu-alabama/rolando-mcclain-p1.jpg

Rolando McClain



http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/slideshows/1090/slideshow_109005/display_image.jpg

Earl Thomas



http://www.nfldraftdog.com/draftdogimages/2010%20prospects/dan-williams.jpg

Dan Williams



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_M7sEz3FCx9c/Sh_MJuaa88I/AAAAAAAAAFE/KcAd1FeWmbk/s320/Trent+Williams.jpg

Trent Williams

Oviedo
01-13-2010, 12:07 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

JTP53609
01-13-2010, 12:07 PM
best player at the positions of need....i am still not big on taylor mays...i think he is a more athletic ryan clark....the guy can hit, but he goes for the hit over playing the ball first, but if we were to get him than we could teach him young....

RuthlessBurgher
01-13-2010, 12:56 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

Spikes and Spiller could be possibilities, I suppose.

I agree that Spiller represents value to an NFL team in the area where we are picking, but I don't think he represents value for our team there. I think we have needs on each level of the defense, and our primary need on offense is in the trenches not with the skill players. We'll have enough of a struggle splitting touches among all of our weapons as it is, so I see someone as Spiller as a luxury, rather than being the best player available at a position of need for us.

Regarding Spikes, if Laurinaitis and Maualuga fall into round 2 last year, then I think that Spikes will be a round 2 candidate this year as well (maybe late round 1 since teams saw the immediate impact that James and Rey had on their teams last year, but I don't see value at #18 for him like there would be with McClain...who also has some experience playing ILB in the 3-4 in college, by the way). I think Spikes hurt his stock by staying in school another year, while McClain improved his stock.

SteelAbility
01-13-2010, 01:05 PM
In keeping with the trend of recent flame wars and the apparently eternal intra-Steeler-Nation debate, could we possibly draft an OC 1st round. :P Unfortunately Lane Kiffin went to USC. Wasn't he an OC at USC for 6 years or so under Carrol?

All seriousness aside, I like the analysis. I doubt McClain will be available at 18. If he is, I think we'd be stupid not to take him.

I do think our sack problems can be fixed by working on Ben getting rid of the ball sooner, so I'm in favor of spending the premium picks on D right now, unless an exceptional run-blocking OT or OG is available to help with predictable short-yardage plays.

Oviedo
01-13-2010, 01:13 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

Spikes and Spiller could be possibilities, I suppose.

I agree that Spiller represents value to an NFL team in the area where we are picking, but I don't think he represents value for our team there. I think we have needs on each level of the defense, and our primary need on offense is in the trenches not with the skill players. We'll have enough of a struggle splitting touches among all of our weapons as it is, so I see someone as Spiller as a luxury, rather than being the best player available at a position of need for us.

Regarding Spikes, if Laurinaitis and Maualuga fall into round 2 last year, then I think that Spikes will be a round 2 candidate this year as well (maybe late round 1 since teams saw the immediate impact that James and Rey had on their teams last year, but I don't see value at #18 for him like there would be with McClain...who also has some experience playing ILB in the 3-4 in college, by the way). I think Spikes hurt his stock by staying in school another year, while McClain improved his stock.

I agree thatthere is a possibility that Spikes could drop, but last years draft was loaded with good ILBs and this year the draft is not as deep and the ones on the board a a little lighter (230-240lbs) than I recall in last year's group. Simple supply and demand which is why I think Spikes stays mid to late Round 1. He is big, strong and fast. IMO he would be a good replacement for Farrior after he spends two years on the bench learning the defense :stirpot

SteelAbility
01-13-2010, 01:18 PM
I think that combining "best" and "need" depends on the drop off from the best available. The point is that SOMEBODY needs that best available player. Hence, they can be parlayed through trade deals to better meet the needs, especially when perceptions are involved. I believe the Cowboys of the 90s built those SB winning teams from the huge perceived value of Herschel Walker in a trade with Minnesota.

If the drop off from best to best/need isn't that big, then certainly best/need is the way to go. Otherwise, best available is the way to go.

Jom112
01-13-2010, 01:19 PM
Pretty accurate list. But at this point I would also add:

Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida - As mentioned already

Donovan Warren, CB, Michigan - #2 corner in the draft probably

Mike Iuputi, G, Idaho - Could be one of those guys that raises his stock big time after Senior Bowl, Combine and other try outs. At 6-6 330 lbs, he definitely has the size that you guys like...

SteelAbility
01-13-2010, 01:20 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

Spikes and Spiller could be possibilities, I suppose.

I agree that Spiller represents value to an NFL team in the area where we are picking, but I don't think he represents value for our team there. I think we have needs on each level of the defense, and our primary need on offense is in the trenches not with the skill players. We'll have enough of a struggle splitting touches among all of our weapons as it is, so I see someone as Spiller as a luxury, rather than being the best player available at a position of need for us.

Regarding Spikes, if Laurinaitis and Maualuga fall into round 2 last year, then I think that Spikes will be a round 2 candidate this year as well (maybe late round 1 since teams saw the immediate impact that James and Rey had on their teams last year, but I don't see value at #18 for him like there would be with McClain...who also has some experience playing ILB in the 3-4 in college, by the way). I think Spikes hurt his stock by staying in school another year, while McClain improved his stock.

I agree thatthere is a possibility that Spikes could drop, but last years draft was loaded with good ILBs and this year the draft is not as deep and the ones on the board a a little lighter (230-240lbs) than I recall in last year's group. Simple supply and demand which is why I think Spikes stays mid to late Round 1. He is big, strong and fast. IMO he would be a good replacement for Farrior after he spends two years on the bench learning the defense :stirpot

Are you referring to DL's "so overly complicated so the rookies just can't learn it and he should be released" schemes? :P

RuthlessBurgher
01-13-2010, 01:35 PM
Pretty accurate list. But at this point I would also add:

Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida - As mentioned already

Donovan Warren, CB, Michigan - #2 corner in the draft probably

Mike Iuputi, G, Idaho - Could be one of those guys that raises his stock big time after Senior Bowl, Combine and other try outs. At 6-6 330 lbs, he definitely has the size that you guys like...

If we were drafting where we usually draft in the late first round, I would like all 3 of those guys as potential targets. As it stands, picking at #18, I would like any of those 3 guys you mentioned if we traded down with our first pick or traded up with our second pick.

Snatch98
01-13-2010, 02:25 PM
Solid list and Spikes is a monster. I personally feel like we HAVE to go with a position in the secondary and simply re-sign Casey. Although I wouldn't complain if any of the listed players were drafted.

Shawn
01-13-2010, 02:28 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

O, this will be one of the rare occasions I disagree with you. Mays is a horrid SS. Yes, he is a freak athlete...yes he has size and speed...and yes he can be a play maker. But, his skill set is better suited for a LB than SS. He would be a piss poor FS. He has very poor coverage skills.

I will agree Spikes needs to be thrown in that list. I also agree that we will not pick an OLman with our #1 unless a freak falls.

As for Cody...why is everyone so concerned about his weight? Williams is also a big man.
Williams is listed at 6 foot 3 316 pounds which put his BMI at 39.5 and Cody is listed at 6 foot 6 365 pounds which puts his BMI at 42.2. Haynesworth BMI is 40.4. That's not a huge difference medically speaking. Both Williams and Cody have been knocked for their conditioning and weight. What guy that plays NT hasn't been knocked for that? It's not like Hampton or Haynesworth are the epitome of fitness. It's a big man's position...and big men need to work harder at conditioning. Cody is a rare talent...with a rare combination of size, strength and quickness. If he is there...it's a no brainer pick.

If I were betting money I would think our reasonable list in order will look like this...

1) Cody
2) Thomas
3) Spikes

steelblood
01-13-2010, 02:42 PM
Regarding Spikes, if Laurinaitis and Maualuga fall into round 2 last year, then I think that Spikes will be a round 2 candidate this year as well (maybe late round 1 since teams saw the immediate impact that James and Rey had on their teams last year, but I don't see value at #18 for him like there would be with McClain...who also has some experience playing ILB in the 3-4 in college, by the way). I think Spikes hurt his stock by staying in school another year, while McClain improved his stock.

McClain is superior to Spikes because of his instincts and tenacity.

But, I really don't see Spikes slipping to the second round, and I feel comparing him to Laurinaitis (a far inferior athlete) is very unfair. Spikes is also a much more fluid athlete than Malauluga who many worried was too stiff for coverage. Finally, I feel like Malaualuga's success will help Spikes draft stock. At this point, I think Spikes will be drafted between 12 and 25.

SteelAbility
01-13-2010, 02:48 PM
Regarding Spikes, if Laurinaitis and Maualuga fall into round 2 last year, then I think that Spikes will be a round 2 candidate this year as well (maybe late round 1 since teams saw the immediate impact that James and Rey had on their teams last year, but I don't see value at #18 for him like there would be with McClain...who also has some experience playing ILB in the 3-4 in college, by the way). I think Spikes hurt his stock by staying in school another year, while McClain improved his stock.

McClain is superior to Spikes because of his instincts and tenacity.

But, I really don't see Spikes slipping to the second round, and I feel comparing him to Laurinaitis (a far inferior athlete) is very unfair. Spikes is also a much more fluid athlete than Malauluga who many worried was too stiff for coverage. Finally, I feel like Malaualuga's success will help Spikes draft stock. At this point, I think Spikes will be drafted between 12 and 25.

Spikes is also very good at gouging out people's eyes, giving his team a much better chance to win. :wink:

RuthlessBurgher
01-13-2010, 02:53 PM
Regarding Spikes, if Laurinaitis and Maualuga fall into round 2 last year, then I think that Spikes will be a round 2 candidate this year as well (maybe late round 1 since teams saw the immediate impact that James and Rey had on their teams last year, but I don't see value at #18 for him like there would be with McClain...who also has some experience playing ILB in the 3-4 in college, by the way). I think Spikes hurt his stock by staying in school another year, while McClain improved his stock.

McClain is superior to Spikes because of his instincts and tenacity.

But, I really don't see Spikes slipping to the second round, and I feel comparing him to Laurinaitis (a far inferior athlete) is very unfair. Spikes is also a much more fluid athlete than Malauluga who many worried was too stiff for coverage. Finally, I feel like Malaualuga's success will help Spikes draft stock. At this point, I think Spikes will be drafted between 12 and 25.

Spikes is also very good at gouging out people's eyes, giving his team a much better chance to win. :wink:

Oh...wise guy...

http://mrsec.com/pics/stooges-eye-poke.jpghttp://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper871/stills/5eimoi70.jpg

AngryAsian
01-13-2010, 02:57 PM
I think our defensive needs are too glaring to avoid. The offensive line showed improvement this year in protecting Ben and showed that a good portion or our franchise QBs sacks were of his own making. Plus with installing a new OL coach, I don't think the input will be there to take an O-lineman in the first. Cody could fill the void nicely that Snack will ultimately leave open with his FA departure. Though I would love to see Earl Thomas in a Steeler uniform.

Oviedo
01-13-2010, 03:31 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

O, this will be one of the rare occasions I disagree with you. Mays is a horrid SS. Yes, he is a freak athlete...yes he has size and speed...and yes he can be a play maker. But, his skill set is better suited for a LB than SS. He would be a piss poor FS. He has very poor coverage skills.

I will agree Spikes needs to be thrown in that list. I also agree that we will not pick an OLman with our #1 unless a freak falls.

As for Cody...why is everyone so concerned about his weight? Williams is also a big man.
Williams is listed at 6 foot 3 316 pounds which put his BMI at 39.5 and Cody is listed at 6 foot 6 365 pounds which puts his BMI at 42.2. Haynesworth BMI is 40.4. That's not a huge difference medically speaking. Both Williams and Cody have been knocked for their conditioning and weight. What guy that plays NT hasn't been knocked for that? It's not like Hampton or Haynesworth are the epitome of fitness. It's a big man's position...and big men need to work harder at conditioning. Cody is a rare talent...with a rare combination of size, strength and quickness. If he is there...it's a no brainer pick.

If I were betting money I would think our reasonable list in order will look like this...

1) Cody
2) Thomas
3) Spikes

My issue with Cody is that in his final 2 years at Alabama he could never make the mandated weight target that Saban set for him to be more than a 2 down player. What does anyone think will actually change in the NFL when he has lots more money (and possibly less motivation) once he gets that big Round 1 payday.

I'd rather get a NT in Round 2-4 and let him OJT behind Hampton who we tag for a year.

Shawn
01-13-2010, 03:58 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

O, this will be one of the rare occasions I disagree with you. Mays is a horrid SS. Yes, he is a freak athlete...yes he has size and speed...and yes he can be a play maker. But, his skill set is better suited for a LB than SS. He would be a piss poor FS. He has very poor coverage skills.

I will agree Spikes needs to be thrown in that list. I also agree that we will not pick an OLman with our #1 unless a freak falls.

As for Cody...why is everyone so concerned about his weight? Williams is also a big man.
Williams is listed at 6 foot 3 316 pounds which put his BMI at 39.5 and Cody is listed at 6 foot 6 365 pounds which puts his BMI at 42.2. Haynesworth BMI is 40.4. That's not a huge difference medically speaking. Both Williams and Cody have been knocked for their conditioning and weight. What guy that plays NT hasn't been knocked for that? It's not like Hampton or Haynesworth are the epitome of fitness. It's a big man's position...and big men need to work harder at conditioning. Cody is a rare talent...with a rare combination of size, strength and quickness. If he is there...it's a no brainer pick.

If I were betting money I would think our reasonable list in order will look like this...

1) Cody
2) Thomas
3) Spikes

My issue with Cody is that in his final 2 years at Alabama he could never make the mandated weight target that Saban set for him to be more than a 2 down player. What does anyone think will actually change in the NFL when he has lots more money (and possibly less motivation) once he gets that big Round 1 payday.

I'd rather get a NT in Round 2-4 and let him OJT behind Hampton who we tag for a year.

Same can be said about Hampton. Hampton had been warned and warned...finally Tomlin was forced to embarass him. Was Hampton lazy? No way...Hampton isn't lazy...he is a big man who likes to eat. And when guys get that big...it's usually more a compulsion to eat. I don't believe that reflects on his work ethic. Will this keep him from being a 3 down DT in the NFL? Maybe...it's hard to say but what I know is this kind of talent at the NT position only comes around so often...and when it does...on the year that your all pro NT is likely to leave or need to be transitioned...you don't pass.

I believe the NT position to be the most dire for us. We have three young guys who will get better at DB. Clark could be signed reasonably...so FS isn't dire. ILB...I'm in favor of Fox getting some serious PT...the guy can play. Our OL has significantly improved. The only place we are close to desperate is NT and an argument can be made at DB.

Lebsteel
01-13-2010, 08:42 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

O, this will be one of the rare occasions I disagree with you. Mays is a horrid SS. Yes, he is a freak athlete...yes he has size and speed...and yes he can be a play maker. But, his skill set is better suited for a LB than SS. He would be a piss poor FS. He has very poor coverage skills.

I will agree Spikes needs to be thrown in that list. I also agree that we will not pick an OLman with our #1 unless a freak falls.

As for Cody...why is everyone so concerned about his weight? Williams is also a big man.
Williams is listed at 6 foot 3 316 pounds which put his BMI at 39.5 and Cody is listed at 6 foot 6 365 pounds which puts his BMI at 42.2. Haynesworth BMI is 40.4. That's not a huge difference medically speaking. Both Williams and Cody have been knocked for their conditioning and weight. What guy that plays NT hasn't been knocked for that? It's not like Hampton or Haynesworth are the epitome of fitness. It's a big man's position...and big men need to work harder at conditioning. Cody is a rare talent...with a rare combination of size, strength and quickness. If he is there...it's a no brainer pick.

If I were betting money I would think our reasonable list in order will look like this...

1) Cody
2) Thomas
3) Spikes

My issue with Cody is that in his final 2 years at Alabama he could never make the mandated weight target that Saban set for him to be more than a 2 down player. What does anyone think will actually change in the NFL when he has lots more money (and possibly less motivation) once he gets that big Round 1 payday.

I'd rather get a NT in Round 2-4 and let him OJT behind Hampton who we tag for a year.

Same can be said about Hampton. Hampton had been warned and warned...finally Tomlin was forced to embarass him. Was Hampton lazy? No way...Hampton isn't lazy...he is a big man who likes to eat. And when guys get that big...it's usually more a compulsion to eat. I don't believe that reflects on his work ethic. Will this keep him from being a 3 down DT in the NFL? Maybe...it's hard to say but what I know is this kind of talent at the NT position only comes around so often...and when it does...on the year that your all pro NT is likely to leave or need to be transitioned...you don't pass.

I believe the NT position to be the most dire for us. We have three young guys who will get better at DB. Clark could be signed reasonably...so FS isn't dire. ILB...I'm in favor of Fox getting some serious PT...the guy can play. Our OL has significantly improved. The only place we are close to desperate is NT and an argument can be made at DB.

I'm with Ovi on this one. Cody has not been impressive in the games I have watched. Dan Williams seems to have much better lateral speed and seems to be able to provide a decent pass rush. Cody struggled to find playing time against Texas. He has a lot of potential, but our first round pick needs more than potential.

Shawn
01-13-2010, 08:45 PM
Excellent analysis and I think you are close to being right on. Just some thoughts:

1. Agree that the best two players we need will be gone, e.g. Haden, Berry and McClain.

2. The second best ILB, Brandon Spikes, will be available and will rate as a middle Round 1 pick before it is all over and done. So you need to add him as a possibility.

3. This safety class is very deep so while Mays and Thomas will likely be there we could get a safety in Round 2 who will be very good. The real question will be whether the team does or does not plan to move Troy to FS at somepoint in the future. If they do then Mays is the better pick because Thomas could not play SS.

4. Not sure we take a OT in Round 1. Where would he play? Starks is signed long term. The team apparently likes Colon so it only makes sense to take a OT if A) they plan to let Colon leave (unlikely) or B) they want to move Colon inside to Guard (also unlikely since he would resist because Guards get paid less than OT and such an attempt would likely have him leave versus extending). Just don't see OT for #18.

5. I only see DL in Round 1 is they plan a switch to a 4-3 which it appears is not happening. I wouldn't touch Cody because of his weight issues. I think Williams would be overdrafted at #18 and would rate as a mid Round 1 pick only because so many teams are desperate for NTs.

IMO the one wildcard for #18 is CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson. Parker is leaving and Moore is nothing realistically more than a 3rd down back. You need three good backs to be successful in the NFL. It will not be lost on the front office what an impact Percy Harvin had in Minnesota or more importantly what Chris Johnson has done in Tennessee. Spiller will put up great speed numbers and is the perfect change of pace back to Mendenhall. Big advantage over FWP is that Spiller is great as part of the passing game. You also don't have to carry Logan another year. I'm not saying they go this way but it would notblow me away if they did.

I think we need help on defense, but keep in mind that any defensive player you take is unlikely to see the field in 2010 because of the complexity of the defense. If Troy could not get on the field as a rookie with his remarkable skillset what makes you think anyone else will. Same thoughts for drafting an OT. He unlikely would play with Starks and Colon returning.

A player like Spiller would pay you immediate returns as a runner, returner and pass catcher. If you want value in Round 1 you at least have to consider that.

O, this will be one of the rare occasions I disagree with you. Mays is a horrid SS. Yes, he is a freak athlete...yes he has size and speed...and yes he can be a play maker. But, his skill set is better suited for a LB than SS. He would be a piss poor FS. He has very poor coverage skills.

I will agree Spikes needs to be thrown in that list. I also agree that we will not pick an OLman with our #1 unless a freak falls.

As for Cody...why is everyone so concerned about his weight? Williams is also a big man.
Williams is listed at 6 foot 3 316 pounds which put his BMI at 39.5 and Cody is listed at 6 foot 6 365 pounds which puts his BMI at 42.2. Haynesworth BMI is 40.4. That's not a huge difference medically speaking. Both Williams and Cody have been knocked for their conditioning and weight. What guy that plays NT hasn't been knocked for that? It's not like Hampton or Haynesworth are the epitome of fitness. It's a big man's position...and big men need to work harder at conditioning. Cody is a rare talent...with a rare combination of size, strength and quickness. If he is there...it's a no brainer pick.

If I were betting money I would think our reasonable list in order will look like this...

1) Cody
2) Thomas
3) Spikes

My issue with Cody is that in his final 2 years at Alabama he could never make the mandated weight target that Saban set for him to be more than a 2 down player. What does anyone think will actually change in the NFL when he has lots more money (and possibly less motivation) once he gets that big Round 1 payday.

I'd rather get a NT in Round 2-4 and let him OJT behind Hampton who we tag for a year.

Same can be said about Hampton. Hampton had been warned and warned...finally Tomlin was forced to embarass him. Was Hampton lazy? No way...Hampton isn't lazy...he is a big man who likes to eat. And when guys get that big...it's usually more a compulsion to eat. I don't believe that reflects on his work ethic. Will this keep him from being a 3 down DT in the NFL? Maybe...it's hard to say but what I know is this kind of talent at the NT position only comes around so often...and when it does...on the year that your all pro NT is likely to leave or need to be transitioned...you don't pass.

I believe the NT position to be the most dire for us. We have three young guys who will get better at DB. Clark could be signed reasonably...so FS isn't dire. ILB...I'm in favor of Fox getting some serious PT...the guy can play. Our OL has significantly improved. The only place we are close to desperate is NT and an argument can be made at DB.

I'm with Ovi on this one. Cody has not been impressive in the games I have watched. Dan Williams seems to have much better lateral speed and seems to be able to provide a decent pass rush. Cody struggled to find playing time against Texas. He has a lot of potential, but our first round pick needs more than potential.

Neither guy is a stat monster. Cody demands double teams and that's his job...to eat up two linemen. He does that as good as any I have seen.

I think it's a moot point though...I see Cody going higher...Texans?

RuthlessBurgher
01-13-2010, 08:53 PM
Neither guy is a stat monster. Cody demands double teams and that's his job...to eat up two linemen. He does that as good as any I have seen.

He does a good job at eating alright. Two lineman, two triple whoppers with cheese, two extra large fries, two large chocolate shakes... :wink:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ALAMCbqd0YY/SvHnh5wSRMI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/zO0V-IaatHA/s320/Mount+Cody.jpg

Steel Life
01-13-2010, 09:03 PM
I'll suggest the following:
1.18 - Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri
2.36 - Jon Asamoah, OG, Illinois
3.54 - Vince Oghobaase, DE, Duke

grotonsteel
01-13-2010, 09:52 PM
Steelers can't create turnovers if Troy is not playing.

If i am Kevin Colbert i will do the following:

Earl Thomas, Texas, FS --- I think he is a Mini-Troy P.
Jason Fox, Miami , OT -- Can start at RT.
Eric Norwood, South Carolina, OLB
Syd'Quan Thompson,California, CB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLHL7Kz1ck
Micah Johnson, Kentucky ILB
Ben Tate, Auburn , RB
Kade Weston, Georgia , NT

Resign Casey Hampton and try to sign Carlos Rogers.

Get a FB who can catch/block and out with Summers/Davis experiment.

NorthCoast
01-13-2010, 10:42 PM
There's no mistaking, the Steelers have done well in Rd 1 & 2 the last few years. However, our misses in Rds. 3-4 really have hit the depth on this team and now are causing issues with free agency looming.

Limas Sweed - Rd 2: jury still out, but he is hanging by a fingernail with this team and will likely get his last shot next season.

Bruce Davis -Rd. 3: could have been a Farrior protege but really could not adjust to the pro game.

Tony Hills -Rd. 4: have not heard a peep about him other than some pre-season drivel.

Anthony Smith -Rd 3: possible replacement for Clark. He wanted to play the game one way, the coaches wanted something else....big miss here.

Willie Reid -Rd 3: I have a beef about SEC WRs...anyway, this miss caused us to go looking for free agent WRs.

Orien Harris -Rd 3: possible A. Smith backup...

Fred Gibson -Rd 4: ouch...another SEC WR...coaching staff really blew this one, not sure what they were thinking.

Ricardo Colclough -Rd 2: small school reach....

What has generally saved Colbert & Co were their good free agent finds, but these draft misses are starting to catch up with us in spots.

Oviedo
01-15-2010, 11:08 AM
Some thoughts from Wexell who advocates spending the first two picks on offensive linemen. Don't agree at all. He is right about resisting the temptation to reach for a CB which they aren't any IMO worth #18 if Haden is gone.

Intersting comment highlighted on him believing we may let Hampton walk and if Hoke and Paxson can't do the job consider 4-3 switch. Thought you would love me pointing that out. :stirpot


Ask Wexell



By Jim Wexell
Publisher SteelCityInsider.com
Posted Jan 14, 2010





Enough time has been wasted, so letís get right to our newest gig Ė thatís not fashioned after the outstanding ďAsk VicĒ series in Jacksonville. No, this oneís much different. Itís called ďAsk Wexell.Ē


Tyranid: Can the Steelers fix their offense and supplement the defensive depth in this draft alone?

I donít think any team can fix all of their problems with one draft. We focus so much on the team in front of us that we donít realize all teams have several problems. The Steelers can do a bit of both. I wrote of my desire to drafting OLmen -- Bryan Bulaga and Maurkice Pouncey Ė one and two, and the leaders of the mobs that actually watched the games this season and saw the defense, they called the story dumb. Well, OK. But Iím looking at value, and those two are not only true building blocks, they would help right away. Iíd even take Trent Williams and Matt Tennant at those spots instead of reaching for a CB like Patrick Robinson and taking a linebacker in the second. While I appreciate an ILB such as Darryl Washington, Iíd prefer a Matt Tennant because itís time for Timmons to step up and be that 3-down ILB. Brandon Spikes first? OK, since I can find a way for him to play three downs, but is he a better building block than Bulaga or Williams? I donít think so. Iíd have to rank Spikes a notch or two below them, particularly Bulaga.

Tyranid: Youíve talked to Casey Hampton. What are the chances of franchising him and maybe drafting a later-round prospect this year? Can you risk starting Chris Hoke this year with a mid-round prospect behind him?

Not franchising Hampton is something to which he says the Steelers have agreed. I can understand why heís against it, since it would cripple his chance for one last grand deal in his career. And if the Steelers did in fact agree, then it will become so because the Rooneys abide by their promises. Now, that may help Hamptonís emotional state as he negotiates a multi-year contract, but it may not help the Steelers, who really have to think long and hard about giving the 33-year-old anything longer than a three-year deal.

Should Hampton leave, yes, I think Chris Hoke would serve as a valuable starter with Scott Paxson behind him. I feel they could competently serve the season while a third NT is kept on the roster and a fourth on the practice squad. If no one can be developed, perhaps itís time to transition to playing more 4-3.

Tyranid: When do you start looking for a replacement for Hines Ward? I like Golden Tate and Eric Decker. What do you think of those two?

Theyíve been looking for Wardís replacement since 2000 when they drafted Plaxico Burress a year after drafting Troy Edwards and two years after drafting Ward. The moral of the story is to never ever count Ward out. I think he read my story about his possible retirement last spring, and I think he posted it on his locker, and I think he thinks I disrespected him, and I think heís going to play till heís 40 just to prove me wrong.

No, not really, but you get my drift with that guy. As for Golden Tate, his valueís at an all-time high right now and that would be too high for the Steelers right now. I adore Eric Deckerís toughness, but it got him killed this season. I wonder if heíll be able to withstand NFL punishment. Iíd take him if he were somehow available in the fourth round. Another guy who compares favorably to Ward is Illinois junior Arrelious Benn, a 6-2, 200-pounder who had an awful year (with his awful quarterback). Heíd been considered first-round material till only recently and could be a steal in the second. Yet, that may even be too soon for a team that hasnít given up on Limas Sweed yet.

Tyranid: What are your thoughts on drafting tight ends? The guy I like is Ed Dickson. Is he better than Colin Peek?

No oneís better than Colin Peek. Just kidding. I like Dickson as well. I think his blockingís underrated and so is his deep speed. But, again, Iím more interested in a bulldog like Peek, whoís been well schooled in the run game and has enough toughness and courage to help on third downs and in the red zone. So to answer your question, Dickson will probably rank higher (unless Peek runs a great 40 at the combine), but my eye will wander over to someone like Peek in the middle rounds, even Nate Byham of Pitt later.

Tyranid: If Willie Parker leaves, the team will need a second running back. Do you like anyone in the draft?

I mentioned yesterday the mid to late-round big backs that I like, although itís doubtful that Ben Tate has slipped anyoneís notice. Geez, can any Auburn back get lost in the shuffle with that schoolís tradition? I like Jarvarris James as well, guys like that. Big backs who run mediocre 40 times tend to become available late. That would be my thinking going in.

SteelinLogic: Has Isaac Redman improved his stamina yet?

We shall find out. My guess is heís working at it, particularly since he took such a public lashing from Mike Tomlin over it. Yes, I would think that Redman sees the opportunity and will give it his all. If he doesnít, then weíll all know why he ended up at Bowie State in the first place.

SteelerBill13: I noticed that Ed Bouchette reported the Steelers tried to sign a fullback from the CFL. Thoughts on this? Any other free-agent fullbacks out there?

I know of no others, but thatís a position that flies under the radar. I take it as a good sign that Tomlin doesnít believe this morass of H-backs has sufficiently helped the two-year short-yardage problem. You can have a fullback and not upset the precious 12-tight end ecosystem Bruce Arians has in place. Just bring him in off the bench when necessary. Any football fan can see that tight ends just donít lead block as well as fullbacks. Too damn bad Henry Hynoski didnít leave Pitt early this year.

SteelerBill13: Also, do you agree with me that the success of the Ravens will serve to punch the Steelers in the mouth and wake them up, so to speak?

Bill, I know you didnít use those exact words. I did.

Youíd think it would be unnecessary after the debacle in Cleveland, but my whole point of the Arians debate is not just the one debacle, but the entire lightweight environment thatís evolved. None of the stats geeks can quantify that side of their pro-Arians arguments, so unfortunately a punch in the face might not even work, as far as Iím concerned.

Jdam43: Beyond the obvious injury problems, what do you think happened to the secondary this season? What is the best short-term approach to fixing it?

Jdam, you obviously have me confused with one of those smart sportswriters. I just think the talent was woefully insufficient. While Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu may very well be the best safety tandem in the NFL, the tandem of Clark and Ty Carter was dreadful. And then you have to wonder about the capability of the young talent behind them. But this will be a great year to add safety depth and find someone to groom at free safety.

As for cornerback, Will Gay and Ike Taylor had awful seasons. Weíve seen Taylorís roller coaster rides in the past, so his inconsistency wasnít a big surprise. But I was surprised at how poorly Gay played. His position will be a focus this off-season. Theyíve already signed Trae Williams, a guy I liked at South Florida. They might try to find a cheap free agent, and Iíd draft a mid-rounder like Devin McCourty of Rutgers or Devin Ross of Arizona. Theyíre a bit on the short side, but theyíre tough and were confident leaders for their respective teams, so I feel both have the capability to show ďthe stage isnít too big for him.Ē Iím worried about reaching at the top of the draft for a Patrick Robinson or a Perrish Cox.
Mikey86: Whatís the bigger need: cornerback, defensive line or offensive line?

Well, if youíre talking about draft priorities, go with the better value at any of the three positions. Iíd rather have Joe Haden than Trent Williams, but Iíd rather have Williams than Perrish Cox. Then thereís the need at nose tackle, but thatís a two-down position, even a 1.5-down position at times. Tough call, but to finally answer your question, Iíd go CB, OL, DL.

Mikey86: Was James Harrison playing injured?

James stopped coming around the locker room during media time, and even if he did heís not the kind of guy to talk about injuries or make excuses. We know he gutted out the one game with the biceps bruise, but I donít know if there was another injury or if that bruise lingered. I thought he played well, but heís taking criticism around town, particularly on the radio, so he should respond with his most grueling off-season yet.

SteelAbility
01-15-2010, 11:24 AM
Neither guy is a stat monster. Cody demands double teams and that's his job...to eat up two linemen. He does that as good as any I have seen.

He does a good job at eating alright. Two lineman, two triple whoppers with cheese, two extra large fries, two large chocolate shakes... :wink:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ALAMCbqd0YY/SvHnh5wSRMI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/zO0V-IaatHA/s320/Mount+Cody.jpg

And that's just in first Quarter. :P

Slapstick
01-15-2010, 02:44 PM
Mikey86: Was James Harrison playing injured?

James stopped coming around the locker room during media time, and even if he did heís not the kind of guy to talk about injuries or make excuses. We know he gutted out the one game with the biceps bruise, but I donít know if there was another injury or if that bruise lingered. I thought he played well, but heís taking criticism around town, particularly on the radio, so he should respond with his most grueling off-season yet.


He might kill somebody next year....

Oviedo
01-15-2010, 03:22 PM
Mikey86: Was James Harrison playing injured?

James stopped coming around the locker room during media time, and even if he did heís not the kind of guy to talk about injuries or make excuses. We know he gutted out the one game with the biceps bruise, but I donít know if there was another injury or if that bruise lingered. I thought he played well, but heís taking criticism around town, particularly on the radio, so he should respond with his most grueling off-season yet.


He might kill somebody next year....

Or at 31 years old hurt himself and be more prone to injury next year.

steelblood
01-15-2010, 03:46 PM
Mikey86: Was James Harrison playing injured?

James stopped coming around the locker room during media time, and even if he did heís not the kind of guy to talk about injuries or make excuses. We know he gutted out the one game with the biceps bruise, but I donít know if there was another injury or if that bruise lingered. I thought he played well, but heís taking criticism around town, particularly on the radio, so he should respond with his most grueling off-season yet.


He might kill somebody next year....

Or at 31 years old hurt himself and be more prone to injury next year.

What happened to the optimist that used to post under your screen name?

Jom112
01-15-2010, 03:49 PM
Willie Reid -Rd 3: I have a beef about SEC WRs...anyway, this miss caused us to go looking for free agent WRs.


Reid was a FSU receiver.

SEC has actually put out some decent receivers the last two years - Mike Wallace, Percy Harvin, Andre Caldwell, Mohamed Massaquoi, Louis Murphy, even Early Doucet is coming around.

Just wait till AJ Green leaves Georgia and you'll definitely like SEC receivers...

Oviedo
01-15-2010, 03:52 PM
Mikey86: Was James Harrison playing injured?

James stopped coming around the locker room during media time, and even if he did heís not the kind of guy to talk about injuries or make excuses. We know he gutted out the one game with the biceps bruise, but I donít know if there was another injury or if that bruise lingered. I thought he played well, but heís taking criticism around town, particularly on the radio, so he should respond with his most grueling off-season yet.


He might kill somebody next year....

Or at 31 years old hurt himself and be more prone to injury next year.

What happened to the optimist that used to post under your screen name?

He's still here. Just :stirpot :stirpot :stirpot

Jom112
01-15-2010, 03:54 PM
Mikey86: Was James Harrison playing injured?

James stopped coming around the locker room during media time, and even if he did heís not the kind of guy to talk about injuries or make excuses. We know he gutted out the one game with the biceps bruise, but I donít know if there was another injury or if that bruise lingered. I thought he played well, but heís taking criticism around town, particularly on the radio, so he should respond with his most grueling off-season yet.


He might kill somebody next year....

Or at 31 years old hurt himself and be more prone to injury next year.

What happened to the optimist that used to post under your screen name?

He's still here. Just :stirpot :stirpot :stirpot

If you need any help, Harrison will be 32 in May... :stirpot

HardlinerKC
01-16-2010, 10:59 AM
Ruthless, excellent topic and views expressed by all. Obviously, I can't join the discussion for the Steel options in the draft as you guys know far better than I in that realm plus you've covered myriad possibilities already.

I will contribute some thoughts though to the draft discussion:

Whether its NEED, BPA or BPA at position of NEED, I think teams sometimes, (Or in the Chief's case, OFTENtimes), outthink themselves. By that I mean, they have a plan going into the draft but as is the case with most drafts, surprises happen and a team finds themselves scrambling about for a Plan B strategy which usually happens when 'their guy' is picked just ahead of their slot.

So then we have the dreaded REACH for, usually, a guy of need which all too often turns into a bust. Because of this condition, I feel a team should take the BPA regardless of position or need. This, of course, pre-supposes that the team has done a credible job in evaluating the available talent pool which is another topic entirely.

Then, thanks to Chief's GM Pioli, there's another category: The GM's vision or profile of a player he wants. A little complicated but last year's #3 overall pick of DL Tyson Jackson is a prime example of this in that, "He allows us to play the way we want", to quote the KC GM. Result? About the same as a REACH with the same outcome in TJack's rookie season, read, UNimpressive.

Summing up, if the evaluation of the talent pool is sound, then the best strategy is to stay true to your board and take the top rated guy when your turn comes and it matters not what position he plays. This, coming from a Chief's fan who has suffered through too many mediocre or bad drafts the past several seasons.

RuthlessBurgher
01-16-2010, 12:34 PM
Well, your boys pick #5, Hardliner. Hopefully the Rams and/or Redskins feel the need to draft a QB ahead of you so that one of the top 4 guys falls. I think both of the DT's at the top of the draft, Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy, could play 3-4 DE on the next level. Either would look good opposite Tyson Jackson, but you may not want to spend a top 5 pick on a 3-4 DE two years in a row (I think both of those guys will be gone in the top 3, so I don't think you need to worry about that). Russell Okung is an elite tackle who would be a good complement opposite Brandon Albert (or possibly to push Albert back inside where he played at UVa when Brian Waters hangs 'em up). And Eric Berry is a potentially dominating ball-hawking free safety in the Ed Reed mold. Hopefully the Rams or Redskins fall for Clausen or Bradford and you can draft one of those 4 guys I just mentioned.

HardlinerKC
01-16-2010, 01:11 PM
Well, your boys pick #5, Hardliner. Hopefully the Rams and/or Redskins feel the need to draft a QB ahead of you so that one of the top 4 guys falls. I think both of the DT's at the top of the draft, Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy, could play 3-4 DE on the next level. Either would look good opposite Tyson Jackson, but you may not want to spend a top 5 pick on a 3-4 DE two years in a row (I think both of those guys will be gone in the top 3, so I don't think you need to worry about that). Russell Okung is an elite tackle who would be a good complement opposite Brandon Albert (or possibly to push Albert back inside where he played at UVa when Brian Waters hangs 'em up). And Eric Berry is a potentially dominating ball-hawking free safety in the Ed Reed mold. Hopefully the Rams or Redskins fall for Clausen or Bradford and you can draft one of those 4 guys I just mentioned.

Astute Ruthless, as usual. Right now, as in RIGHT now, before the Combine and individual workouts, the guys you mentioned have to be in the mix as to the BPA in the top 5. Actually, I think McCoy may prove to be a better DT than Suh but that's just idle speculation on my part with no empirical evidence to back it. at least for now.

Also, it's interesting to note that if the Chiefs go Dline, it should be a NT as Dorsey started to come on at the end of the 2009 season and was stopping the run with regularity. McCoy could probably fill that role and thus fulfill Pioli's 'Vision/profile' of the player he covets. Another guy would be ILB McClain from 'Bama who they might get with a trade down to about 9 or 10 and pick up some needed additional picks.


I agree that Okung makes sense but probably TOO much sense for Pioli. I also don't think Berry is all that., having seen a few UT games this past season, the guy is too inconsistent for my tastes and doesn't show himself a reliable tackler. I don't think the Rams are smart enough to take a QB and Shanarat will most likely keep Campbell for his latest reclamation project. Here's my prediction on the first 5 picks as of today (subject to change):

1- Rams: Suh
2-Lions- McCoy
3-Tampa- Berry
4- Skins-Okung
5- Chiefs-TRADE DOWN...anyone? Anyone? Buhler??.... No trade? McClain