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fordfixer
01-10-2010, 03:41 AM
Mehno: Arians' role in failures is overblown

By: John Mehno
Beaver County Times
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/sport ... blown.html (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/sports_details/article/1501/2010/january/09/mehno-arians-role-in-failures-is-overblown.html)

Saturday January 9, 2010 05:31 PM

What a tough week for a lot of people.

The holidays are over, the weather has been miserable, thereís no Pittsburgh Steelers playoff game, and Bruce Arians is coming back as the teamís offensive coordinator.

The weather will eventually change, and the Christmas shopping season will restart in August, but thereís no escaping the agony brought on by Ariansí continuing employment.

Itís the offensive play calling, of course, that has the defending Super Bowl champions on the outside looking in this January.

(Never mind that Arians was the offensive coordinator when the Steelers won the Super Bowl 11 months ago. Keep your logic out of this).

This raises a bigger question: When did coordinators become focal points? Bet you canít even name the coordinators on the Steelersí first Super Bowl team.

(Bud Carson was the defensive coordinator in 1974. They had no official offensive coordinator, as Chuck Noll and the quarterbacks collaborated on the play calling. They played the season anyway).

Maybe itís the networksí compulsion to focus cameras on them during game broadcasts. Maybe the popularity of video games has created a mindset that actual players are puppets, manipulated totally by string pullers above.

Whatever the case, thereís a belief that every failed play is the result of faulty play-calling.

You, too, can be an expert. Hereís the secret formula:

If the running play fails, it should have been a pass. If a pass is incomplete or intercepted, any idiot knows they should have run the ball.

Are there bad choices of plays during NFL games? Of course there are.

But itís doubtful there are as many as some people think there are.

Sometimes players donít execute. You know when you see an offensive lineman standing next to the running back whoís just been dropped for a 4-yard loss? That may have less to do with the chosen play than it does with that linemanís ability to execute his block.

But, naturally, that never would have happened if the knuckleheaded coordinator had ordered a pass.

If a double reverse gains 40 yards, itís imaginative play calling. If the same play gets stopped for a loss, itís a worthless gimmick called by a coordinator who should have stuck to basics.

The path from play call to the final result depends on a lot of variables. Thatís why you donít hear the smarter TV analysts making a constant issue of play calling.

They know. A lot of others donít, but they think they do.

Two things are certain here:

1. Bruce Arians is coming back.

2. If he had a nickel for every time his name is taken in vain in someoneís living room, he wouldnít need to work.

Oviedo
01-10-2010, 09:44 AM
Best statement in the article


The path from play call to the final result depends on a lot of variables. Thatís why you donít hear the smarter TV analysts making a constant issue of play calling.


Even though know nothing fans sitting in their "Barco Loungers of Power" believe that God is transmitting to them what the actual play calls should be, are and they have the football intelligence to know what is called, what are the audible options out of the called play and what the play actually executed is.

BURGH86STEEL
01-10-2010, 09:53 AM
That sums things up pretty well. I would understand the complaints if the offense was completely inept. That has not been the case.

steelz09
01-10-2010, 10:12 AM
I completely disagree with this article and I think this writer is trying to stereotype a specfic group of fans.

Myself and many others have criticized Arians and rightfully so because of his situational play calling. For example:

1) Pass / Rush Ratio
2) Not being able to control the clock. Many times our running attack was successful and Arians abandoned it in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Enevitably, that has cost the Steelers games.
3) Not being able adjust play calling when offensive line is struggling. Personally for me, this was the most frustrating to watch. I don't understand why when our offensive line is struggling, why all BB's targets/receivers have at least 20 yard deep routes. It's not only obvious that WON'T work, but also buts your quarterback in jeopardy of injury.

NorthCoast
01-10-2010, 10:17 AM
Well, the offense is inept in certain phases of their game:

1) Third down conversions. We were ranked 23rd in the league.
2) Red zone offense. Ranked 18th.

No way you will convince me that over the course of an entire season the reason for the poor results were bad execution every time. (and even if that was the case then coaching is a problem their as well).

Play calling is huge when talent levels are equal.

BURGH86STEEL
01-10-2010, 11:03 AM
Well, the offense is inept in certain phases of their game:

1) Third down conversions. We were ranked 23rd in the league.
2) Red zone offense. Ranked 18th.

No way you will convince me that over the course of an entire season the reason for the poor results were bad execution every time. (and even if that was the case then coaching is a problem their as well).

Play calling is huge when talent levels are equal.
How many offenses are top 5 in every category in the league? Of course there are areas the Steelers can work to improve. There will always be areas they can work to improve. No one said BA was perfect. People suggest the offense is completely inept and he is the main culprit for the team's failures. It is like the offense did not do anything positive in the minds of some fans. They were 12th in scoring offense. There is not much that separates 12th from 8th scoring offense. They had a lot of productive players. There were other positives and negatives.

We can play this game about rankings for a lot of the good offense around the league. The Colts, Chargers, Texans, and Cards were among the worst rushing offenses in the league. You think those guys want to improve in that area? Maybe they just prefer to play more to their strengths?

I see it as execution is more important when talent level is equal. That is because I believe games are won on the field by the players.

IMO, this season boiled down to defense or lack of defense when it was needed.

BURGH86STEEL
01-10-2010, 11:26 AM
I completely disagree with this article and I think this writer is trying to stereotype a specfic group of fans.

Myself and many others have criticized Arians and rightfully so because of his situational play calling. For example:

1) Pass / Rush Ratio
2) Not being able to control the clock. Many times our running attack was successful and Arians abandoned it in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Enevitably, that has cost the Steelers games.
3) Not being able adjust play calling when offensive line is struggling. Personally for me, this was the most frustrating to watch. I don't understand why when our offensive line is struggling, why all BB's targets/receivers have at least 20 yard deep routes. It's not only obvious that WON'T work, but also buts your quarterback in jeopardy of injury.

Several good teams have a Pass/Run ratio that is out of balance.

Teams can control the clock with an effective run or pass game. It all depends where a team perceives its strengths. There were probably a few games where they could had stuck with the run a little longer. That does not mean he is the "go to guy" to blame for everything. We can do the same questionable decision making for every play caller in the league. How about a lot of the good calls Arians made?

I am not sure there is much a play caller can do when players struggle on the field. When the Oline has a bad day, it has a trickle down effect to both the QB, WR's, and RB's. Same can probably be said when the QB has a bad day.

I don't believe all the targets are 20 yards down the field. I think the offense does a good job attacking every area of the field. It shows up in the numbers:
Ward 12.3 yards/rec
Holmes 15.8 yards/rec
Miller 10.4 yards/rec
Wallace 19.4 yards/rec
Mendenhall 10.4 yards/rec
Moore 7.3 yards/rec

Might be hard pressed to find a team that has this kind of balance from their offensive players. There are areas they can work to improve. It is ashame that some can't see the positives. We would not have a team in Pittsburgh if the organization focused on the negatives. I think there are more positives in the offense then negatives. That is why BA still has a job.

stlrz d
01-10-2010, 11:51 AM
This article reeks of, "Oh sh!t I have a deadline to make and NO idea for a story!"

:roll:

feltdizz
01-10-2010, 12:20 PM
I watched Dallas run the ball... I watched the Jets run the ball.. I watched the bungles run the ball... I watched the Eagles pass themselves out of the playoffs. I think we need to run the ball.

I defended BA because Ben likes him and the D fell off a cliff. However the games yesterday reaffirmed what I said earlier this year. Regardless of how well you pass you have to run the ball in this league. I know the passing league guys will disagree but you can't pass your way to a championship. Even the Pass happy Rams had Faulk...

The dilema is Big Ben.. He isn't trying to run as much as we would like him to and I can't really fault him. SB year we ran more than we think but they weren't productive runs... However all those runs up the gut gave Sweed a chance to put the Ravens away in the Afc champ.

Steel Life
01-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Myself and many others have criticized Arians and rightfully so because of his situational play calling. For example:

1) Pass / Rush Ratio
2) Not being able to control the clock. Many times our running attack was successful and Arians abandoned it in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Enevitably, that has cost the Steelers games.
3) Not being able adjust play calling when offensive line is struggling. Personally for me, this was the most frustrating to watch. I don't understand why when our offensive line is struggling, why all BB's targets/receivers have at least 20 yard deep routes. It's not only obvious that WON'T work, but also buts your quarterback in jeopardy of injury.
Well, the offense is inept in certain phases of their game:

1) Third down conversions. We were ranked 23rd in the league.
2) Red zone offense. Ranked 18th.

No way you will convince me that over the course of an entire season the reason for the poor results were bad execution every time. (and even if that was the case then coaching is a problem their as well).

Play calling is huge when talent levels are equal.
These two previous posts are dead on & writer of the article conveniently ignores these important stats while chiding the "arm-chair generals".

BA's play-calling reeks of stubbornness & inflexibilty. Now I agree that execution is a huge aspect to any successful play-call or game-plan, but the first priority is to put the team in position to succeed & on 3rd downs & in the Red-Zone does not. Another thing the writer doesn't consider in giving Arians credit is how many times Ben bails him out by simply making a great play. The fact remains that we tried it Arians' way & it did not work despite all the gaudy stats & as I've said before, all BA has done is turn us into the Seahawks & Steeler Nation doesn't like it.

feltdizz
01-10-2010, 01:09 PM
If the running play fails, it should have been a pass. If a pass is incomplete or intercepted, any idiot knows they should have run the ball.

This sums up it up perfectly.. on 3rd and 2 and shotgun I'm screaming run the ball!!! Then Ben drops back, pump fakes, I scream "throw it!!" he points, waits... and then completes a 14 yard pass to Heath...I then scream "HEEEATH, good job O, good job O..."

Fans swear up and down they are experts of the game.. LOL!!!

msp26505
01-10-2010, 01:13 PM
I watched Dallas run the ball... I watched the Jets run the ball.. I watched the bungles run the ball... I watched the Eagles pass themselves out of the playoffs. I think we need to run the ball.

I defended BA because Ben likes him and the D fell off a cliff. However the games yesterday reaffirmed what I said earlier this year. Regardless of how well you pass you have to run the ball in this league. I know the passing league guys will disagree but you can't pass your way to a championship. Even the Pass happy Rams had Faulk...

Welcome to the side that is right and good.

You will find that over here, everyone is beautiful and intelligent, the gas is cheap and the beer is always cold, and you can eat as much as you want and not have to worry about getting fat. :Cheers

feltdizz
01-10-2010, 01:39 PM
I watched Dallas run the ball... I watched the Jets run the ball.. I watched the bungles run the ball... I watched the Eagles pass themselves out of the playoffs. I think we need to run the ball.

I defended BA because Ben likes him and the D fell off a cliff. However the games yesterday reaffirmed what I said earlier this year. Regardless of how well you pass you have to run the ball in this league. I know the passing league guys will disagree but you can't pass your way to a championship. Even the Pass happy Rams had Faulk...

Welcome to the side that is right and good.

You will find that over here, everyone is beautiful and intelligent, the gas is cheap and the beer is always cold, and you can eat as much as you want and not have to worry about getting fat. :Cheers

I've always been a run first guy... but I also realize Ben has the power and this is where we are going. I have always been a true old school Steeler fan... D first, run a ton and have a QB who makes a few clutch plays.

However, I also think bashing BA is a waste of energy... I think it's much more productive to b!tch and moan about the D this offseason. :wink:

pfelix73
01-10-2010, 03:04 PM
Who is this guy?

"Sometimes players donít execute. You know when you see an offensive lineman standing next to the running back whoís just been dropped for a 4-yard loss? That may have less to do with the chosen play than it does with that linemanís ability to execute his block."

This is somewhat true- however, the play that's called could put that OL in a bad situation before the play is in motion. This happens a lot and the only thing that can get the offense out of a bad situation would be an audible called at the LOS. This game is a game of angles. If the OL has a bad angle to his defender- guess what? The play could get 'all jacked up' This is why OL make adjustments too. To get the better angle and block.

:tt2

BURGH86STEEL
01-10-2010, 03:57 PM
Who is this guy?

"Sometimes players donít execute. You know when you see an offensive lineman standing next to the running back whoís just been dropped for a 4-yard loss? That may have less to do with the chosen play than it does with that linemanís ability to execute his block."

This is somewhat true- however, the play that's called could put that OL in a bad situation before the play is in motion. This happens a lot and the only thing that can get the offense out of a bad situation would be an audible called at the LOS. This game is a game of angles. If the OL has a bad angle to his defender- guess what? The play could get 'all jacked up' This is why OL make adjustments too. To get the better angle and block.

:tt2

If the Olinemen can't make a block, that is on that player. The other team's players have a say. They get paid too.

I will venture to say that a lot of the protection calls are made at the last second by Ben.

SteelAbility
01-10-2010, 04:14 PM
Ok. It's overblown. It still doesn't mean that it's not significant. Just like a player being overrated doesn't mean they aren't actually good. It just means they aren't the god that people think they are. Same thing here in reverse.

NorthCoast
01-10-2010, 04:42 PM
I keep bringing up stats because that is exactly what the pro-Arians crowd does when they talk about the 'great offense' we have and all those yards Ben threw for. Yes, some of the stats only tell some of the story, but usually all of the stats tell the whole story.

SteelAbility
01-10-2010, 04:49 PM
I keep bringing up stats because that is exactly what the pro-Arians crowd does when they talk about the 'great offense' we have and all those yards Ben threw for. Yes, some of the stats only tell some of the story, but usually all of the stats tell the whole story.

There is an advanced NFL stat web site. There is a term for a stat that indicates yards gained per point scored (or vice-versa, however you want to look at it). I believe we are at best mediocre in that stat.

BURGH86STEEL
01-10-2010, 04:53 PM
I keep bringing up stats because that is exactly what the pro-Arians crowd does when they talk about the 'great offense' we have and all those yards Ben threw for. Yes, some of the stats only tell some of the story, but usually all of the stats tell the whole story.

I don't think anyone said the Steelers had a great offense. Fans point out that it's not all BA fault. We also point out the offense improved in some areas over last season. We think they are headed in the right direction.


The stats showed our defense was pretty good this season until the end of a few games.

pfelix73
01-10-2010, 04:58 PM
FYI-Burgh86


Wrong wrong wrong..... Generally- The OL makes adjustments and calls out their protection along the OL. Who it is, will depend on the team, but it is NOT the QB. Yes, the QB can make a change, but it is NOT as often as most think.- Would be on a pass play not a running play. Most of that stuff you hear coming out of the QB's mouth at the LOS is just garbage and meaningless. Kind of like in baseball when you see the manager going through all those hand to face hand to ear gestures, etc. Only one small part of that may or may not actually mean something- confused yet? That's what it is intended to do....Black 80, Black 80 coming out of Ben's mouth may or may not be meaningful. A color can be hot for a quarter or even just one series- changes constantly. Black 80 black 80 could be a simple quick slant to Holmes on one play and totally meaningless on another. The OL comes up with calls as well. Max may call out ACADEMY ACADEMY at the LOS and that would instantly tell his G and/or C what the blocking scheme is.... If only the fans could actually hear the OLmen during a game, would you know just how intricate it can be. And with mouthpieces in, it's even more fun...These big guys just don;t stand around like dummies and block the man closest to them- so much more than that, and unless you played there at any level you just don't understand what transpires. Some teams will have the C do these calls, but more than likely it is the 2 tackles. They can make a call at the LOS to communicate with their G.

:tt1

pfelix73
01-10-2010, 05:02 PM
And yes, a play could be doomed from the get go...Doesn't matter if the OLman executes or not...

:tt1

BURGH86STEEL
01-10-2010, 05:13 PM
FYI-Burgh86


Wrong wrong wrong..... Generally- The OL makes adjustments and calls out their protection along the OL. Who it is, will depend on the team, but it is NOT the QB. Yes, the QB can make a change, but it is NOT as often as most think.- Would be on a pass play not a running play. Most of that stuff you hear coming out of the QB's mouth at the LOS is just garbage and meaningless. Kind of like in baseball when you see the manager going through all those hand to face hand to ear gestures, etc. Only one small part of that may or may not actually mean something- confused yet? That's what it is intended to do....Black 80, Black 80 coming out of Ben's mouth may or may not be meaningful. A color can be hot for a quarter or even just one series- changes constantly. Black 80 black 80 could be a simple quick slant to Holmes on one play and totally meaningless on another. The OL comes up with calls as well. Max may call out ACADEMY ACADEMY at the LOS and that would instantly tell his G and/or C what the blocking scheme is.... If only the fans could actually hear the OLmen during a game, would you know just how intricate it can be. And with mouthpieces in, it's even more fun...These big guys just don;t stand around like dummies and block the man closest to them- so much more than that, and unless you played there at any level you just don't understand what transpires. Some teams will have the C do these calls, but more than likely it is the 2 tackles. They can make a call at the LOS to communicate with their G.

:tt1

Well I guess I am not wrong if Ben makes calls in protections. We don't know what is garbage and what is true. No one, not even yourself, knows what happens without being a player on the team. It is all speculation.

I realize that the Olinemen are not just big dummies. I know that Hartings use to be responsible for protection calls. Not sure how much of that responsibility was on Hartwig last season.

I also realize that the Oline should not had been thrown under the bus by a lot of fans last season because of injuries and a lack of playing time together. The Oline is the one position in football where playing together is key to the over all groups success.

steelnavy
01-10-2010, 05:13 PM
It is like the offense did not do anything positive in the minds of some fans. They were 12th in scoring offense. There is not much that separates 12th from 8th scoring offense. They had a lot of productive players. There were other positives and negatives.

We can play this game about rankings for a lot of the good offense around the league. The Colts, Chargers, Texans, and Cards were among the worst rushing offenses in the league. You think those guys want to improve in that area? Maybe they just prefer to play more to their strengths?

While the offense ranked 12th in scoring, how does that compare when considering strength of schedule? Its not like the Steelers had a plethora of tough oppponents this year.

And regarding those teams that you mention above, how do they rank in 3rd down conversions and redzone efficiency? You know, THE IMPORTANT STATS. Bet they are better than the Steelers (and thats what gets you into the post season)...

I know, I know, its the D's fault! Fire Lebeau! :roll:

BURGH86STEEL
01-10-2010, 05:23 PM
It is like the offense did not do anything positive in the minds of some fans. They were 12th in scoring offense. There is not much that separates 12th from 8th scoring offense. They had a lot of productive players. There were other positives and negatives.

We can play this game about rankings for a lot of the good offense around the league. The Colts, Chargers, Texans, and Cards were among the worst rushing offenses in the league. You think those guys want to improve in that area? Maybe they just prefer to play more to their strengths?

While the offense ranked 12th in scoring, how does that compare when considering strength of schedule? Its not like the Steelers had a plethora of tough oppponents this year.

And regarding those teams that you mention above, how do they rank in 3rd down conversions and redzone efficiency? You know, THE IMPORTANT STATS. Bet they are better than the Steelers (and thats what gets you into the post season)...

I know, I know, its the D's fault! Fire Lebeau! :roll:

The Steelers can't pick who they play. We should do the same for every team around the league if we are going to play that game.

What stats are or are not important can be subjective. I threw out those teams because some people are so concerned with rushing the ball. Just wanted to show that running the ball does not always equate to winning. The same can be said for passing offenses. There is not only one formula for winning in the NFL.

I never said it is only the defenses fault. I never said fire Lebeau or Arians. I think that both coaches have done an adequate enough job to help this team win.

pfelix73
01-10-2010, 07:30 PM
FYI-Burgh86


Wrong wrong wrong..... Generally- The OL makes adjustments and calls out their protection along the OL. Who it is, will depend on the team, but it is NOT the QB. Yes, the QB can make a change, but it is NOT as often as most think.- Would be on a pass play not a running play. Most of that stuff you hear coming out of the QB's mouth at the LOS is just garbage and meaningless. Kind of like in baseball when you see the manager going through all those hand to face hand to ear gestures, etc. Only one small part of that may or may not actually mean something- confused yet? That's what it is intended to do....Black 80, Black 80 coming out of Ben's mouth may or may not be meaningful. A color can be hot for a quarter or even just one series- changes constantly. Black 80 black 80 could be a simple quick slant to Holmes on one play and totally meaningless on another. The OL comes up with calls as well. Max may call out ACADEMY ACADEMY at the LOS and that would instantly tell his G and/or C what the blocking scheme is.... If only the fans could actually hear the OLmen during a game, would you know just how intricate it can be. And with mouthpieces in, it's even more fun...These big guys just don;t stand around like dummies and block the man closest to them- so much more than that, and unless you played there at any level you just don't understand what transpires. Some teams will have the C do these calls, but more than likely it is the 2 tackles. They can make a call at the LOS to communicate with their G.

:tt1

Well I guess I am not wrong if Ben makes calls in protections. We don't know what is garbage and what is true. No one, not even yourself, knows what happens without being a player on the team. It is all speculation.

I realize that the Olinemen are not just big dummies. I know that Hartings use to be responsible for protection calls. Not sure how much of that responsibility was on Hartwig last season.

I also realize that the Oline should not had been thrown under the bus by a lot of fans last season because of injuries and a lack of playing time together. The Oline is the one position in football where playing together is key to the over all groups success.



I agree with you on these 3 statements. We do not know what is garbage and what is actual. You would have to be in the huddle to know that. I do know, however, that what I stated previously is correct in a general way regarding blocking calls along the OL. Just because that is how it is/was done. We do not know, however, how they did it under Zierlein. Generally the tackles will make the call, but on some teams the C could and/or all 3. Personally, I prefer the tackles making the calls. Each Line coach will do this in his own way.

Your other statements are right on- especially the one about them getting thrown under the bus by the fans.....

:tt1

Chadman
01-10-2010, 07:53 PM
The biggest issue Chadman has with the Steelers offense is those 3rd & shorts & End Zone struggles.

The Steelers just can't convert them as well as required.

The lack of a true POWER BACK hurts the team, as does very poor INTERIOR OL BLOCKING.

Zone Blocking has not worked for the Steelers. For every 'bad playcall'- how often would better blocking have made the result different?

Pretty sure the Cowboys aren't using Zone Blocking- they looked very effective against the Eagles.

Improve that & then we'll see about Arians play calling.

DukieBoy
01-10-2010, 08:46 PM
Myself and many others have criticized Arians and rightfully so because of his situational play calling. For example:

1) Pass / Rush Ratio
2) Not being able to control the clock. Many times our running attack was successful and Arians abandoned it in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Enevitably, that has cost the Steelers games.
3) Not being able adjust play calling when offensive line is struggling. Personally for me, this was the most frustrating to watch. I don't understand why when our offensive line is struggling, why all BB's targets/receivers have at least 20 yard deep routes. It's not only obvious that WON'T work, but also buts your quarterback in jeopardy of injury.
Well, the offense is inept in certain phases of their game:

1) Third down conversions. We were ranked 23rd in the league.
2) Red zone offense. Ranked 18th.

No way you will convince me that over the course of an entire season the reason for the poor results were bad execution every time. (and even if that was the case then coaching is a problem their as well).

Play calling is huge when talent levels are equal.
These two previous posts are dead on & writer of the article conveniently ignores these important stats while chiding the "arm-chair generals".

BA's play-calling reeks of stubbornness & inflexibilty. Now I agree that execution is a huge aspect to any successful play-call or game-plan, but the first priority is to put the team in position to succeed & on 3rd downs & in the Red-Zone does not. Another thing the writer doesn't consider in giving Arians credit is how many times Ben bails him out by simply making a great play. The fact remains that we tried it Arians' way & it did not work despite all the gaudy stats & as I've said before, all BA has done is turn us into the Seahawks & Steeler Nation doesn't like it.


No better example of BA's issues than the Clevelan game, a must win, in an envornment of cold, high winds and rain, and we throw 32 times for 18 completions, and run only 22 times.

The Steelers are a cold-weather team, and we play all of our division games in outdoor stadinms, many of them in "weather". We MUST have an effective running game for those conditions, and w must use it strongly and strategically. If we run effectively in that game, we are playing this weekend, maybe further. That game is a comment on the AirArians issues.

pfelix73
01-10-2010, 10:01 PM
:Agree

Also:
Guys, every team in the NFL, college, high school, pop warner uses some kind of zone as well as traditional man blocking throughout a game. Some use ZB more than others, but all will use it. This is a fact. It's very common. So, yes the Cowboys would zone block too. Tell ya what. I'll watch the Cowboys game next weekend and I'll come back on here and tell ya which plays they used it. It can get complicated for sure, but for example, even when one G pulls on a particular play there's probably the C and the other G zone blocking....Etc. Inside zone is quite common especially against a 3-4...There'd be a double on the NG and then the G would peel off towards a LB. That's one type of zone, but there is more to it than what I can explain here, so... anyways, I'll watch the OL play closely next weekend in all 4 games. Then there is zone blocking in passing plays..that's for another day...

A FB would help in the 3rd, 4th and short conversions.. I thought we got better at picking up the short yardage stuff as the season went along...

pfelix73
01-17-2010, 03:15 PM
"Pretty sure the Cowboys aren't using Zone Blocking- they looked very effective against the Eagles."

I'm watching the Cowboys- Vikings game. Yes, the interior OL is using some zone blocking.

Center and RG- obvious that it was zone..... I'll keep watching.

Both the Ravens and Colts used some last night too. Again, it's so common, that everyone uses some zone blocking, there's no reason why any OL can't learn it- it's easy.....

Carry on-

:tt1

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 03:38 PM
"Pretty sure the Cowboys aren't using Zone Blocking- they looked very effective against the Eagles."

I'm watching the Cowboys- Vikings game. Yes, the interior OL is using some zone blocking.

Center and RG- obvious that it was zone..... I'll keep watching.

Both the Ravens and Colts used some last night too. Again, it's so common, that everyone uses some zone blocking, there's no reason why any OL can't learn it- it's easy.....

Carry on-

:tt1

I don't know what scheme the Cowboys OL is doing, but I know they are doing a poor job. Romo is still acting
like he has all day too..

BURGH86STEEL
01-17-2010, 03:39 PM
"Pretty sure the Cowboys aren't using Zone Blocking- they looked very effective against the Eagles."

I'm watching the Cowboys- Vikings game. Yes, the interior OL is using some zone blocking.

Center and RG- obvious that it was zone..... I'll keep watching.

Both the Ravens and Colts used some last night too. Again, it's so common, that everyone uses some zone blocking, there's no reason why any OL can't learn it- it's easy.....

Carry on-

:tt1

They are also having issues blocking the guys in front of them.

feltdizz
01-17-2010, 04:38 PM
"Pretty sure the Cowboys aren't using Zone Blocking- they looked very effective against the Eagles."

I'm watching the Cowboys- Vikings game. Yes, the interior OL is using some zone blocking.

Center and RG- obvious that it was zone..... I'll keep watching.

Both the Ravens and Colts used some last night too. Again, it's so common, that everyone uses some zone blocking, there's no reason why any OL can't learn it- it's easy.....

Carry on-

:tt1

They are also having issues blocking the guys in front of them.

Major issues..

pfelix73
01-17-2010, 06:23 PM
I just pulled this thread back up because I said last weekend that I'd check out the Cowboys when Chadman said he thought they were using man blocking. They were running at will against the Eagles and their OL is a pretty big OL.

Well, what a difference a week makes. The Vikings use a 4-3 and zone blocking against a 4-3 is more difficult.

The cowboys used a variation of both man and zone in today's game. Very typical for virtually any team in the NFL, college, etc. Now watching the Chargers, so far in the 1st Q, I'm noticing pretty much man or hat on a hat blocking. I'm sure I'll see some zone at times though.....

In other words, this whole discussion of man vs zone is really overblown as a few have mentioned earlier......
:tt1

pfelix73
01-17-2010, 08:28 PM
Nice example of a zone block- Alan Faneca. Yes, AF. On the long Shonn Green run. AF blocked the NG with the C, then he peeled off to hit the LB. Green went back against the grain right off AF's but and scored....That was a simple type of zone by just the LG and the C. Again, very common.



:tt1

BURGH86STEEL
01-17-2010, 08:53 PM
Nice example of a zone block- Alan Faneca. Yes, AF. On the long Shonn Green run. AF blocked the NG with the C, then he peeled off to hit the LB. Green went back against the grain right off AF's but and scored....That was a simple type of zone by just the LG and the C. Again, very common.



:tt1
One reason why Alan Faneca has been an all pro in this league is because he can block like that consistently. The loss of Hartings, Faneca, and Smith is still being felt by the Steelers run game to this day. Difficult to replace 3 probowl caliber players that played together for several years.