Could We Mix Up Our Front 7???

[flippy]

How do we more consistently get more pressure on the QB with our front 7?

If Aaron Smith comes back, we've got 3 quality DEs. Is there a way to get Smith, Keisel, and Ziggy on the field together?

We could go with a 4 man line of Keisel, Smith, Ziggy, and Woodley (assuming we don't bring back Hampton).

Or we could continue with the 3-4 which is more likely with a line of Smith, Hoke (Hampton if he returns), and Hood/Keisel.

To keep Keisel on the field, we could move him to LB. There'd be 2 options for doing that. He's practiced at OLB. But to put him there, we would have to move Woodley or Harrison inside. Harrison has been the better pass rusher, but I see Woodley surpassing him, so it may make more sense to move Harrison inside with Timmons.

Moving on to Timmons, I still think he could be better suited to play OLB. He's got so much speed and power. And he could be a major weapon off the edge. We always get pressure when we line Timmons outside of Harrison or Woodley. I'd be interested in seeing us explore moving him into Harrison's spot. Harrison is so strong, he might be better than Timmons inside against the run.

Could we slide Keisel into Farrior's slot? He's probably just as athletic as Levon Kirkland if not moreso.

I know it might sound crazy, but could a line of of Smith, Hoke/Hampton, Ziggy with Timmons (OLB), Keisel, Harrison, Woodley (OLB) work?

Keisel isn't the run stopper that Smith is on the line, but I think he could be a great run stuffer at ILB. Harrison would also be great at stuffing the run, which has been problematic for Timmons.

The only question I'd have with this formation is how well Keisel/Harrison could drop into coverage. But I also think you could rotate the positions of Timmons/Keisel and Timmons/Harrison in different situations.

I know I've left out Farrior, but he's really lost a step. He may be best suited as a situational 2 down player with limited responsibilities. I'd almost only use him to run blitz or delay blitz.

If we could make this work, then we could draft 3 Dlinemen to replace Hampton/Hoke and Smith and add depth behind Ziggy.

And then we could look to also add some DBs. And 2 LBs to compliment Woodley and Timmons in the future.

[MeetJoeGreene]

I have toyed (in my mind) with thoughts of moving Keisel to replace Farrior. I don't know that it would work... but it might.

[feltdizz]

Keisel for Farrior? :wft

How about Keisel for Gay?

[ANPSTEEL]

How about Keisel for Gay?

I think you're on to something.

Then, maybe Gay can play Center?!?

:lol:

[RuthlessBurgher]

How about Keisel for Gay?

I think you're on to something.

Then, maybe Gay can play Center?!?

:lol:

Ben may have a problem putting his hands on the crotch of someone named Gay. :shock:

[phillyesq]

How about Keisel for Gay?

I think you're on to something.

Then, maybe Gay can play Center?!?

:lol:

:Clap :Clap :Clap

Bravo. Well played, sir, well played.

In passing situations, sure, a line of Smith, Ziggy, and Keisel, with Woodley and Harrison at OLB as pass rushers, could be interesting.

But shifting a guy one year removed from the D-MVP to another position, or moving a nearly 300 lb DE to inside LB, doesn't make a whole lot of sense at all, IMO.

[ANPSTEEL]

How about Keisel for Gay?

I think you're on to something.

Then, maybe Gay can play Center?!?

:lol:

:Clap :Clap :Clap

Bravo. Well played, sir, well played.

In passing situations, sure, a line of Smith, Ziggy, and Keisel, with Woodley and Harrison at OLB as pass rushers, could be interesting.

But shifting a guy one year removed from the D-MVP to another position, or moving a nearly 300 lb DE to inside LB, doesn't make a whole lot of sense at all, IMO.

Thanks for the props, but I must give credit to Felt- he was the first to pick up on the giant watermelon Flippy tossed out there for everyone one to T-off on.

Big thanks Flip :lol: :Bow

[feltdizz]

How about Keisel for Gay?

I think you're on to something.

Then, maybe Gay can play Center?!?

:lol:

:Clap :Clap :Clap

Bravo. Well played, sir, well played.

In passing situations, sure, a line of Smith, Ziggy, and Keisel, with Woodley and Harrison at OLB as pass rushers, could be interesting.

But shifting a guy one year removed from the D-MVP to another position, or moving a nearly 300 lb DE to inside LB, doesn't make a whole lot of sense at all, IMO.

Thanks for the props, but I must give credit to Felt- he was the first to pick up on the giant watermelon Flippy tossed out there for everyone one to T-off on.

Big thanks Flip :lol: :Bow

watermelon? I find that insulting. :wink:

[BradshawsHairdresser]

If we went to a 4-3, I would like the idea of Keisel and Woodley at the ends, and Smith and Hood at the tackles. I think Hampton is as good as gone.

Whether we stayed in the 3-4, or switched to a 4-3, I would like to see Timmons utilized more off the edge. I think it's time for Farrior to go. If we stay with the 3-4, I'd like to see Fox have a go at Farrior's position, with either Harrison, a FA stud, or a top-flight rookie moved to the ILB position Timmons held this season. There's little chance that they will move Harrison, IMO, but I think he would be very good there.

I've said it before, but if you can get a lot of pressure on the QB, your backfield immediately looks a lot better. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to upgrade at FS and CB.

[flippy]

Sure I threw some crazy ideas out to try to generate discussion, but I think there's a couple of important points worth looking at:

1. Smith, Keisel, and Ziggy are 3 potential starters for 2 positions. Does one become a backup? Do you use him another way? Or do you cut his big salary?

2. Lawarence Timmons was drafted to play OLB. He may be better rushing from the outside. But we've pigeon holed him inside. Does this make sense? Could we get more out of him? Are we maximizing his ability. He's shown so many flashes, but can't seem to put it all together. On the outside, I think his burst could help us generate more of a pass rush. The other thought with Timmons would be to put 2 big DTs in front of him to free him up to use his athleticism to make more plays.

3. This is probably not a popular thought, James Harrison impressed me 2 years ago. Not as much in the last year. Has he peaked like others like Gildon, Porter, etc? He gets held regularly and easily. He doesn't have pass rush moves other than a bull rush and I don't see it changing. If you're not going to get calls, you've gotta develop pass rush moves and he hasn't. That said, he's tough and just might fit inside. OLBs are the most important players in a 3-4 and I think it's time to start thinking about his successor. It may not be Timmons. If not, I think we should look at drafting another Woodley type player.

[steelblood]

Wait, so you want to rush Smith, Keisel, Hood, and Woodley? That would put Harrison on the bench or in coverage.

In nickel and dime situations we often go with a four man front of Woodley and Harrison at DE and Keisel and Smith/Hood/Kirschke at DT. That is already getting our best four pass rushers on the field together.

Now, if you are talking about rotating pass rushers to keep them fresher, I think you are on to something. This is something most of the league already does. Having another OLB/DE to rotate in with Harrison and Woodley could be very beneficial, especially in a game in which the defense is seeing a lot of snaps.

For me the key here would be developing more pass rushers who can rotate throughout the game and keep each other fresh. The Steelers would benefit greatly from adding another pass rusher to the rotation. Hood seems promising as a nickel/dime DT to spell Keisel and Smith. We need one more guy on the outside. He could be another base DE that has pass rush skills or a OLB who is big enough to move to DE in the nickel/dime situations like Woodley. There are several of these guys in the draft. Hopefully we can find one in the 3rd-5th round.

[Jooser]

I really have to agree that Timmons is probably playing the wrong position at ILB. I think he's a great player and all, but he just seems out of place.

[flippy]

We woulda stopped Cincy on the final drive of their first win against us. Not only would that have gotten us in the playoffs, it woulda probably ruined Cincy.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Sure I threw some crazy ideas out to try to generate discussion, but I think there's a couple of important points worth looking at:

1. Smith, Keisel, and Ziggy are 3 potential starters for 2 positions. Does one become a backup? Do you use him another way? Or do you cut his big salary?

Defensive linemen rotate to keep them all fresh. This can also help to prolong Aaron Smith's career, and hopefully prevent future injury.

2. Lawarence Timmons was drafted to play OLB. He may be better rushing from the outside. But we've pigeon holed him inside. Does this make sense? Could we get more out of him? Are we maximizing his ability. He's shown so many flashes, but can't seem to put it all together. On the outside, I think his burst could help us generate more of a pass rush. The other thought with Timmons would be to put 2 big DTs in front of him to free him up to use his athleticism to make more plays.

Use Timmons how Chad Brown was used inside the mid 90's. They have a similar skill set.

3. This is probably not a popular thought, James Harrison impressed me 2 years ago. Not as much in the last year. Has he peaked like others like Gildon, Porter, etc? He gets held regularly and easily. He doesn't have pass rush moves other than a bull rush and I don't see it changing. If you're not going to get calls, you've gotta develop pass rush moves and he hasn't. That said, he's tough and just might fit inside. OLBs are the most important players in a 3-4 and I think it's time to start thinking about his successor. It may not be Timmons. If not, I think we should look at drafting another Woodley type player.

More depth is always a plus, but if anything were to happen to Harrison or Woodley, I think the immediate solution would be to slide Timmons outside and plug in Fox inside (like how we moved Brown outside and inserted Olsavsky inside when Greg Lloyd was hurt).

[feltdizz]

Sure I threw some crazy ideas out to try to generate discussion, but I think there's a couple of important points worth looking at:

1. Smith, Keisel, and Ziggy are 3 potential starters for 2 positions. Does one become a backup? Do you use him another way? Or do you cut his big salary?

2. Lawarence Timmons was drafted to play OLB. He may be better rushing from the outside. But we've pigeon holed him inside. Does this make sense? Could we get more out of him? Are we maximizing his ability. He's shown so many flashes, but can't seem to put it all together. On the outside, I think his burst could help us generate more of a pass rush. The other thought with Timmons would be to put 2 big DTs in front of him to free him up to use his athleticism to make more plays.

3. This is probably not a popular thought, James Harrison impressed me 2 years ago. Not as much in the last year. Has he peaked like others like Gildon, Porter, etc? He gets held regularly and easily. He doesn't have pass rush moves other than a bull rush and I don't see it changing. If you're not going to get calls, you've gotta develop pass rush moves and he hasn't. That said, he's tough and just might fit inside. OLBs are the most important players in a 3-4 and I think it's time to start thinking about his successor. It may not be Timmons. If not, I think we should look at drafting another Woodley type player.

While I'm not a big fan of moving Harrison I agree.. he has one move and if it's not getting called he needs to work on a spin or an inside move.

However at this point I don't think moving Timmons outside helps... he will get better inside. I didn't expect Jack Ham inside his first full year.. he is not a weakness..

Put Fox in where the elder was and you have a beast LB core...

Keisel.. maybe I'm bias but he doesn't live up to the boards athletic hype.. I think Hood and Eason are in the mix now.. I know we like vets but the young guys have more hunger and more energy..

[NW Steeler]

I agree that Timmons was drafted as an OLB. We still didn't know what we had in Harrison at that point. Then Harrison has a very good year in Timmons rookie season, and an MVP season the next. They had to get Timmons on the field, so it was at ILB. Exactly the same scenario when we had Lloyd, Greene and Chad Brown....there was no place for Brown on the outside, but he had to be on the field, so he was put in a t ILB. Switching Timmons' and Harrison's positions would be interesting. But you still need to do something about Farrior. If nothing else, he should not be on the field on third down.

[RuthlessBurgher]

While I'm not a big fan of moving Harrison I agree.. he has one move and if it's not getting called he needs to work on a spin or an inside move.

Send Harrison to Rashard Mendenhall's Spinderella 101 course. :lol:

[steelblood]

Sure I threw some crazy ideas out to try to generate discussion, but I think there's a couple of important points worth looking at:

1. Smith, Keisel, and Ziggy are 3 potential starters for 2 positions. Does one become a backup? Do you use him another way? Or do you cut his big salary?

2. Lawarence Timmons was drafted to play OLB. He may be better rushing from the outside. But we've pigeon holed him inside. Does this make sense? Could we get more out of him? Are we maximizing his ability. He's shown so many flashes, but can't seem to put it all together. On the outside, I think his burst could help us generate more of a pass rush. The other thought with Timmons would be to put 2 big DTs in front of him to free him up to use his athleticism to make more plays.

3. This is probably not a popular thought, James Harrison impressed me 2 years ago. Not as much in the last year. Has he peaked like others like Gildon, Porter, etc? He gets held regularly and easily. He doesn't have pass rush moves other than a bull rush and I don't see it changing. If you're not going to get calls, you've gotta develop pass rush moves and he hasn't. That said, he's tough and just might fit inside. OLBs are the most important players in a 3-4 and I think it's time to start thinking about his successor. It may not be Timmons. If not, I think we should look at drafting another Woodley type player.

While I'm not a big fan of moving Harrison I agree.. he has one move and if it's not getting called he needs to work on a spin or an inside move.

However at this point I don't think moving Timmons outside helps... he will get better inside. I didn't expect Jack Ham inside his first full year.. he is not a weakness..

Put Fox in where the elder was and you have a beast LB core...

Keisel.. maybe I'm bias but he doesn't live up to the boards athletic hype.. I think Hood and Eason are in the mix now.. I know we like vets but the young guys have more hunger and more energy..

Harrison has one move? I think that may be an oversimplification. He could use a few new ones, but he certainly has a few others. I've seen him get sacks with straight bull rushes, inside moves, and arm overs.

[feltdizz]

Sure I threw some crazy ideas out to try to generate discussion, but I think there's a couple of important points worth looking at:

1. Smith, Keisel, and Ziggy are 3 potential starters for 2 positions. Does one become a backup? Do you use him another way? Or do you cut his big salary?

2. Lawarence Timmons was drafted to play OLB. He may be better rushing from the outside. But we've pigeon holed him inside. Does this make sense? Could we get more out of him? Are we maximizing his ability. He's shown so many flashes, but can't seem to put it all together. On the outside, I think his burst could help us generate more of a pass rush. The other thought with Timmons would be to put 2 big DTs in front of him to free him up to use his athleticism to make more plays.

3. This is probably not a popular thought, James Harrison impressed me 2 years ago. Not as much in the last year. Has he peaked like others like Gildon, Porter, etc? He gets held regularly and easily. He doesn't have pass rush moves other than a bull rush and I don't see it changing. If you're not going to get calls, you've gotta develop pass rush moves and he hasn't. That said, he's tough and just might fit inside. OLBs are the most important players in a 3-4 and I think it's time to start thinking about his successor. It may not be Timmons. If not, I think we should look at drafting another Woodley type player.

While I'm not a big fan of moving Harrison I agree.. he has one move and if it's not getting called he needs to work on a spin or an inside move.

However at this point I don't think moving Timmons outside helps... he will get better inside. I didn't expect Jack Ham inside his first full year.. he is not a weakness..

Put Fox in where the elder was and you have a beast LB core...

Keisel.. maybe I'm bias but he doesn't live up to the boards athletic hype.. I think Hood and Eason are in the mix now.. I know we like vets but the young guys have more hunger and more energy..

Harrison has one move? I think that may be an oversimplification. He could use a few new ones, but he certainly has a few others. I've seen him get sacks with straight bull rushes, inside moves, and arm overs.

I know he has more then one move... but looking back we saw the outside, I'm being held move way too much... way too many games he kept at it and it wasn't working...
I was being oversimplicated....

I meant it in a Spindenhall kinda way.. Mend has moves.. but he was spinning like Michael Jackson for a while..

[Oviedo]

How about Keisel for Gay?

I think you're on to something.

Then, maybe Gay can play Center?!?

:lol:

:Clap :Clap :Clap

Bravo. Well played, sir, well played.

In passing situations, sure, a line of Smith, Ziggy, and Keisel, with Woodley and Harrison at OLB as pass rushers, could be interesting.

But shifting a guy one year removed from the D-MVP to another position, or moving a nearly 300 lb DE to inside LB, doesn't make a whole lot of sense at all, IMO.

The problem is that you are questioning how St LeBeau does defense and that is not permitted because he has done it for years that same way and therefore it should never change.