PDA

View Full Version : Making Arians a scapegoat is unwarranted



fordfixer
01-06-2010, 02:22 AM
Cook: Making Arians a scapegoat is unwarranted
Wednesday, January 06, 2010
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10006/1026052-87.stm

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin made all the predictable points in his season-ending session with the local sporting media yesterday. He talked of a "somber meeting" with his players Monday after their 9-7 finish left them out of the playoffs. He took "responsibility for everything" for the team falling short of its goal of winning another "Lombardi." He promised to make "appropriate changes" before next season.

But Tomlin didn't deliver the news that many people in Steelers Nation most wanted to hear. He didn't fire offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

At least not yet.

You almost could hear the screams of anger around town, across the country and throughout the world in all places where the Terrible Towel is considered sacred.

At least two people are happy for now, though: Ben Roethlisberger and I.

And one of our opinions really should matter.

The Arians dismissal still could happen, of course. ESPN Radio 1250 reported yesterday afternoon that Tomlin will fire him, perhaps before the end of the week. For his part, Tomlin announced that quarterbacks coach Ken Anderson is retiring but wouldn't discuss his plans for the rest of his staff, begging off the topic until after he meets with each coach later this week.

I'm hoping the radio report is wrong. I can't think of one good reason why the Rooneys and/or Tomlin would make that move with Arians. They are too smart to try to placate the frustrated masses by giving them his head. Arians doesn't deserve that. Letting him go would be a huge mistake. It wouldn't rectify what really ails the Steelers. It only would add to their troubles.

Listen ... . There are those screams again.

I'm sorry, I've never seen as much irrational animosity directed at one coordinator as there was toward Arians this season. In a lot of ways, his offense was magnificent. Roethlisberger had his best year as a quarterback. Wide receivers Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes, tight end Heath Miller and running back Rashard Mendenhall put up huge numbers. Certainly, Arians' offense isn't the primary reason the Steelers are out of the postseason. It ranks a distant third behind the overrated defense and the underachieving special teams on the list of causes for the mess that Tomlin is trying to sort through this week.

Today's NFL isn't your father's NFL. It's no longer strictly about power football -- "3 yards and a cloud of dust" if you will. It's about being able to beat increasingly complicated defensive schemes by throwing the football often and with great precision.

The NFL's top 10 passing teams this season were Houston, Indianapolis, New England, New Orleans, San Diego, Dallas, Green Bay, Minnesota, Philadelphia and the Steelers. How much do you want to bet that one team from that list wins the Super Bowl next month and a second team plays in it?

The top 10 rushing teams were the New York Jets, Tennessee, Carolina, Miami, Baltimore, New Orleans, Dallas, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Jacksonville. Only New Orleans and Dallas from that group would appear to be capable of winning the title.

Arians is no kid -- he's 57 -- but he has kept up with the times.

He gets it.

It's hard to say that same thing about many Steelers fans. They conveniently forget that Arians' offense was plenty good enough to help the team win the championship last season, especially during a magical fourth-quarter drive in Super Bowl XLIII. But they can't wait to blame him for the failures this season, unfair as that blame is. If I received a nickel every time somebody said he needs to be more committed to the running game, I'd be a wealthy man. It's ridiculous.

Do those people really believe it was Arians' fault that the Steelers blew five fourth-quarter leads in losses this season?

Roethlisberger is another guy who gets it. You can say he has a biased opinion about the passing game, and I won't argue. Any great quarterback -- and Big Ben clearly is among the two or three greatest in the game today -- likes throwing the ball more than handing it off. It's no wonder he loves his offense just as it is.

But Roethlisberger has been extraordinarily productive under Arians. This season, he threw for a team-record 4,328 yards with a 100.5 passer rating. He had 26 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. It's indisputable that he and his offense did their part and more to help the team try to get back to the playoffs and have a chance to defend its title.

But there's more to it than just numbers.

Roethlisberger has a wonderful working relationship with Arians. That should not be underestimated. The Steelers have $102 million invested in their quarterback. They should be doing everything they can -- within reason -- to keep him happy.

Firing Arians won't do that.

Nor will making Roethlisberger work with a new coordinator and learn a new system when there really was nothing wrong with his offense as it was.

That's not just wrong.

It's unnecessary.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10006/10 ... z0boKqHjGf (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10006/1026052-87.stm#ixzz0boKqHjGf)

SteelCrazy
01-06-2010, 02:33 AM
This idiot talks if Ben is a rookie and needs his hand held by Arians and only Arians. As if Ben would be lost if Arians was indeed fired and someone new came in to take over the offense.

What I saw this year was a meltdown on offense in the latter parts of the game, no TOP, and an aging D without it's 2 best players, left to defend our Championship.

Arians isn't a scapegoat, if fired, he is the goat.

Shoe
01-06-2010, 03:25 AM
"Making Arians a scapegoat is unwarranted"

I agree... sorta :wft

I'm like everyone else, in being critical of Arians in some areas. However, TOMLIN NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE. There lies the dilemna.

Cuz I hate when people are so quick to jump on him, call him a janitor, etc... Frankly, I'm certain many of those who do, do so cuz he is black.

BUT... I'm fed up with his rhetoric. I'm not talking about the usual coachspeak that coaches typically will say... I have no problem with that (since every coach does it). But he takes it a step further.

(I guess I'm just terribly frustrated with how this year has unfolded.) But every time I hear talk about some aspect of the team, and he says "...where the rubber meets the road." Or he's talking our season, and says "we made our bed...", etc. It annoys me so.

As if we're supposed to think you are a coach, because you are able to spout witty sayings? Again, I'm saying this part out of frustration, but...

I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SAYINGS.
I DON'T CARE WHEN THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD.
I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT BED OUR PLAYERS SLEEP ON.

JUST COACH THIS MF-n TEAM.

msp26505
01-06-2010, 06:46 AM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

Scarletfire1970
01-06-2010, 07:41 AM
I think he is right. The problem this year lied more with the defense than the offense. Without the offensive production we had in many of these games, we would have ended up 6-10 or worse this year. Do I love Arians playcalling every game? No. But for the most part, this team has been productive under him. And look at the offensive line he's got to work with. I think he has done pretty well considering.

Chadman
01-06-2010, 08:51 AM
Just wait till the masses get a hold of this article... :D


Chadman has made mention of it before- the O's biggest problems are the OL & that fact/comment from Tomlin after the Ravens game that they don't feel Mendy can get it done on short yardage. There is no short yardage guy on the team.

Fix that- and insert the necessary changes to scheme & players on the OL- pretty sure we see a different Arians Offense.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 09:06 AM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

I'm not alone... He is spot on too... No one thinks BA is perfect or without flaw...
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

SteelAbility
01-06-2010, 09:09 AM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

BA = feldizz :?: :Cheers

BURGH86STEEL
01-06-2010, 09:22 AM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

I'm not alone... He is spot on too... No one thinks BA is perfect or without flaw...
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

You are not a lone. I for know the offense showed improvement over last season. People don't want to see it because of hate. Hate over a few bad or questionable calls. If people think another OC will never have bad games or make questionable calls then they are mistaken.

The defensive side of the ball took a major step back. The special teams can also be lumped in with the defense.

steelblood
01-06-2010, 09:31 AM
Just wait till the masses get a hold of this article... :D


Chadman has made mention of it before- the O's biggest problems are the OL & that fact/comment from Tomlin after the Ravens game that they don't feel Mendy can get it done on short yardage. There is no short yardage guy on the team.

Fix that- and insert the necessary changes to scheme & players on the OL- pretty sure we see a different Arians Offense.

Part of fixing short yardage is having the right personnel and the right scheme. Arians refuses to work with a traditional head-bashing FB. This stubborn refusal IS part of the problem. Arians has also designed very few effective running plays (our best running plays are the holdovers from past OCs). In fact, he designed very few effective running plays in his stint as OC in Cleveland (I lived there and saw almost every game). Arians Short yardage has been a huge problem and that fall at the feet of Tomlin AND Arians.

I don't necessarily believe that Arians should be fired. But, I certainly think he should be held accountable for the piss-poor red zone offense and our terrible short yardage game. Giving him a pass on those deficiencies is as bad as those who give him a pass based on the stats this team has generated.

stlrz d
01-06-2010, 09:57 AM
I already sent Mr. Cook a nice email on this article. He's responded to me before when I've complimented him.

I'm betting there's no chance he responds this time. I basically pointed out to him all the fallacies in his "keep Bruce" argument.

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 10:47 AM
I already sent Mr. Cook a nice email on this article. He's responded to me before when I've complimented him.

I'm betting there's no chance he responds this time. I basically pointed out to him all the fallacies in his "keep Bruce" argument.

Please show your work. I would love to see that letter and what was said to this moronic wirter for the Post. :lol:

msp26505
01-06-2010, 12:13 PM
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

I (and others) wanted him gone last year, but it's tough to fire a coordinator after a SB win.

You can blame the OL and Zierlein all you want (and there is definitely much to complain about there) but BA repeatedly put Ben in vulnerable situations by going empty set and calling slow-developing plays against obvious blitzes...only exacerbated when you throw in Ben's "hold onto the ball" mentality.

Against Cleveland, a smart OC calls quick hitters and more max protect when Cleveland's vaunted 37th ranked D is bringing the house and getting 8 sacks.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 01:25 PM
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

I (and others) wanted him gone last year, but it's tough to fire a coordinator after a SB win.

You can blame the OL and Zierlein all you want (and there is definitely much to complain about there) but BA repeatedly put Ben in vulnerable situations by going empty set and calling slow-developing plays against obvious blitzes...only exacerbated when you throw in Ben's "hold onto the ball" mentality.

Against Cleveland, a smart OC calls quick hitters and more max protect when Cleveland's vaunted 37th ranked D is bringing the house and getting 8 sacks.

That Cleveland game was pitiful...

I don't like the empty set either but Ben must love it because we kept using it. Obviously empty sets call for quick reads and Ben is not that guy... I often wonder if he welcomes a CB blitz thinking he can escape it..

I did see a few plays out of the empty that were great.. the pass to Moore that Heath was called for a hold was nice.

Ben looked glassy in that Cleveland game and half the team looked like they wanted to get on the bus. It was awful all around.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 01:31 PM
[quote="stlrz d":hv2lb8gx]I already sent Mr. Cook a nice email on this article. He's responded to me before when I've complimented him.

I'm betting there's no chance he responds this time. I basically pointed out to him all the fallacies in his "keep Bruce" argument.

Please show your work. I would love to see that letter and what was said to this moronic wirter for the Post. :lol:[/quote:hv2lb8gx]

Ron Cook got you to bite the bait... i bet he gets more views and clicks today then he has all season.

you are the delusional fans he speaks of in his letter....LOL!!

No one is a BA apologist there are a few people who look at last season with clear minds then decide who failed this season.

Ghost
01-06-2010, 01:33 PM
Overall I'd put the onus on the defense as the main contributer to the losses this season. But having all the stats is great (4000+ for Ben, 2 1000 yd WR, 1000 yr RB) but how many points did the Steelers leave out there consistently? How many of you would start screaming at the TV on a long run or pass, praying he'd get in the endzone b/c you had no faith they'd get a TD inside the 20 or even the 10. The Steelers must find a way to get into the endzone.

I don't hate BA and certainly don't think the season is lost if he comes back but if Tomlin thinks he can find a better coordinator to manage the insane amount of talent on this roster then that'd be great.

NW Steeler
01-06-2010, 01:47 PM
It is hard to really say whether or not we will be better off without Arians. We had great "paper" stats. But our failures in the redzone and Arians insistence on the empty backfield are very troubling. I can't remember one OC that we have had since Noll left that everyone didn't bitch about. The thought that always comes back to me was when we played the Browns in the playoffs when Arains was the OC in Cleveland. The Browns put up huge passing numbers in that game, but they completely abandoned the run and it cost them the game. His play calling seems to be exactly the same now. Our play calling between the 20's seemed to be pretty good this year for the most part. I know you can't put it all on Arians, some of it is lack of execution by the players. If Arians stays, there is something to be said for consistency I guess. My biggest problem with Arians is it seems that he NEVER adapts/adjusts his game plan. I'd like to see us be like the Patriots a few years ago. When they needed to pass the ball 50 times a game, they did it and won. When they needed to run the ball 40 times in game, they did it and won. We CAN'T run the ball if we need/want to. I'm not saying that we need to go back to running 60% of the time, but we need to be able to run it to salt a game like we did with Cowhers' teams back in the 90's.

SteelCrazy
01-06-2010, 01:48 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

Slapstick
01-06-2010, 01:53 PM
The thought that always comes back to me was when we played the Browns in the playoffs when Arains was the OC in Cleveland. The Browns put up huge passing numbers in that game, but they completely abandoned the run and it cost them the game.

The Browns lost that game because Dennis Northcutt dropped a third down pass that would have allowed the Browns to pretty much kill the clock.

SteelAbility
01-06-2010, 02:00 PM
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

I (and others) wanted him gone last year, but it's tough to fire a coordinator after a SB win.

You can blame the OL and Zierlein all you want (and there is definitely much to complain about there) but BA repeatedly put Ben in vulnerable situations by going empty set and calling slow-developing plays against obvious blitzes...only exacerbated when you throw in Ben's "hold onto the ball" mentality.

Against Cleveland, a smart OC calls quick hitters and more max protect when Cleveland's vaunted 37th ranked D is bringing the house and getting 8 sacks.

That Cleveland game was pitiful...

I don't like the empty set either but Ben must love it because we kept using it. Obviously empty sets call for quick reads and Ben is not that guy... I often wonder if he welcomes a CB blitz thinking he can escape it..

I did see a few plays out of the empty that were great.. the pass to Moore that Heath was called for a hold was nice.

Ben looked glassy in that Cleveland game and half the team looked like they wanted to get on the bus. It was awful all around.

The most awful part was the choice of 40 passes and 20 runs in 30 mph howling winds and sub-zero temperatures. Let's see, if my math is right, that should work out to about 6 points tops. Oh, yeah ... that's just how it played out. BA must have insights into some new kind of math. Intriguing. Let's keep him and see if this new math can help us win another SB. :roll:

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 02:20 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

seriously? so now the offense has to score 35 to 40 points a game to win? What part of Steeler football is this?

Isn't excluding the 4th quarter like taking out FWP's long runs to get his real average?

It's a stupid question... and you already answered it.. if our D made a few crucial plays in any of the losses we are in the playoffs.. not INT's for TD's either..

we are talking basic fundamentals, tackling, batting a ball down, sacking the QB on 3rd or 4th down... getting pressure on 3rd or 4th down.

Never ever ever.. EVER ask a question like this again.

NW Steeler
01-06-2010, 02:32 PM
The thought that always comes back to me was when we played the Browns in the playoffs when Arains was the OC in Cleveland. The Browns put up huge passing numbers in that game, but they completely abandoned the run and it cost them the game.

The Browns lost that game because Dennis Northcutt dropped a third down pass that would have allowed the Browns to pretty much kill the clock.

Yeah, I was going to mention that. But I think the game would have been over long before that if they could have run the ball.

SteelCrazy
01-06-2010, 02:41 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

seriously? so now the offense has to score 35 to 40 points a game to win? What part of Steeler football is this?

Isn't excluding the 4th quarter like taking out FWP's long runs to get his real average?

It's a stupid question... and you already answered it.. if our D made a few crucial plays in any of the losses we are in the playoffs.. not INT's for TD's either..

we are talking basic fundamentals, tackling, batting a ball down, sacking the QB on 3rd or 4th down... getting pressure on 3rd or 4th down.

Never ever ever.. EVER ask a question like this again.

:Blah :Blah :Blah :Blah WRONG! Next..........What the offense needs is balance and all of this would not even be in a discussion. Ben will be dead in 2 years if Bruce stays........

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 02:42 PM
Overall I'd put the onus on the defense as the main contributer to the losses this season. But having all the stats is great (4000+ for Ben, 2 1000 yd WR, 1000 yr RB) but how many points did the Steelers leave out there consistently? How many of you would start screaming at the TV on a long run or pass, praying he'd get in the endzone b/c you had no faith they'd get a TD inside the 20 or even the 10. The Steelers must find a way to get into the endzone.

I don't hate BA and certainly don't think the season is lost if he comes back but if Tomlin thinks he can find a better coordinator to manage the insane amount of talent on this roster then that'd be great.

you know what you get with BA.. you don't know what you get with a new OC..
I doubt we take that chance with the production we have. I don't remember Cowher's Steelers kicking any less FG's then Tomlin's teams.

Points will always be left on the field by the offense...
except when our D was on the field in the 4th this year..LOL!!!

I don't understand how the demand for Offensive perfection trumps Defensive perfection this year... 2 years ago I would agree the D was winning games..this year they lost them.. it happens, but I'm not going to lie to myself and say the O did this to us this year. No way...

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 02:49 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

seriously? so now the offense has to score 35 to 40 points a game to win? What part of Steeler football is this?

Isn't excluding the 4th quarter like taking out FWP's long runs to get his real average?

It's a stupid question... and you already answered it.. if our D made a few crucial plays in any of the losses we are in the playoffs.. not INT's for TD's either..

we are talking basic fundamentals, tackling, batting a ball down, sacking the QB on 3rd or 4th down... getting pressure on 3rd or 4th down.

Never ever ever.. EVER ask a question like this again.

:Blah :Blah :Blah :Blah WRONG! Next..........What the offense needs is balance and all of this would not even be in a discussion. Ben will be dead in 2 years if Bruce stays........


we we winning most games through 3 quarters.. if we can't say the 4th qtr D then we go 13-3.

SteelCrazy
01-06-2010, 03:09 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

seriously? so now the offense has to score 35 to 40 points a game to win? What part of Steeler football is this?

Isn't excluding the 4th quarter like taking out FWP's long runs to get his real average?

It's a stupid question... and you already answered it.. if our D made a few crucial plays in any of the losses we are in the playoffs.. not INT's for TD's either..

we are talking basic fundamentals, tackling, batting a ball down, sacking the QB on 3rd or 4th down... getting pressure on 3rd or 4th down.

Never ever ever.. EVER ask a question like this again.

:Blah :Blah :Blah :Blah WRONG! Next..........What the offense needs is balance and all of this would not even be in a discussion. Ben will be dead in 2 years if Bruce stays........


we we winning most games through 3 quarters.. if we can't say the 4th qtr D then we go 13-3.

In 2008 if the D did not hold the opponent under 12 pts a game we would have been 1-15! We were not winning most games through 3 quarters.....We were winning half the games we lost at halftime, but then the O got stupid, or Arians did, and we fumbled away leads in the second half. The D could have done a lot better? Yes! But that D is aging and is missing two key components (Aaron Smith, Troy). However, we still had the 4th best D in the league and all they needed was time to breath in the 2ND HALF. Arians gave them no time to breath with consistent 3 n outs.....

The only way we can win a championship with Arians is to have a #1 Defense! Just like last year...........Look at the Ravens when they won theirs.....Trent Dilfer, the illegitimate son of Arians, was horrid, but the D was great, so they won. Oh yea, they could run the ball and chew up the clock at the end of games!!!! Hello....Is anyone home?

Oviedo
01-06-2010, 03:16 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

As I recall we were safely ahead in the Super Bowl until the defense decided to give us a preview of the late game collapses that occurred this year. It was the passing offense that Arians installed that won Super Bowl #6 with Ben leading the offense down the field and linking up with Santonio.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 03:19 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

seriously? so now the offense has to score 35 to 40 points a game to win? What part of Steeler football is this?

Isn't excluding the 4th quarter like taking out FWP's long runs to get his real average?

It's a stupid question... and you already answered it.. if our D made a few crucial plays in any of the losses we are in the playoffs.. not INT's for TD's either..

we are talking basic fundamentals, tackling, batting a ball down, sacking the QB on 3rd or 4th down... getting pressure on 3rd or 4th down.

Never ever ever.. EVER ask a question like this again.

:Blah :Blah :Blah :Blah WRONG! Next..........What the offense needs is balance and all of this would not even be in a discussion. Ben will be dead in 2 years if Bruce stays........


we we winning most games through 3 quarters.. if we can't say the 4th qtr D then we go 13-3.

In 2008 if the D did not hold the opponent under 12 pts a game we would have been 1-15! We were not winning most games through 3 quarters.....We were winning half the games we lost at halftime, but then the O got stupid, or Arians did, and we fumbled away leads in the second half. The D could have done a lot better? Yes! But that D is aging and is missing two key components (Aaron Smith, Troy). However, we still had the 4th best D in the league and all they needed was time to breath in the 2ND HALF. Arians gave them no time to breath with consistent 3 n outs.....

The only way we can win a championship with Arians is to have a #1 Defense! Just like last year...........Look at the Ravens when they won theirs.....Trent Dilfer, the illegitimate son of Arians, was horrid, but the D was great, so they won. Oh yea, they could run the ball and chew up the clock at the end of games!!!! Hello....Is anyone home?

I'm talking 2009.. it's easy to defend the D when you use 2008.
In 2009 look at the points scored on O and look at the Offenses we were playing against.

you cannot win this argument. We couldn't hold half the teams under 12 points in the 4th... and the D was responsible for not catching their breath since they kept having to run 15 yards on third down conversions to line up again...

TOP was 4th in the league... stop making excuses.

I would have much respect if people said the D ws bad but it will return in 2010. Instead we have 2008 stats and countless excuses...

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 03:20 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

As I recall we were safely ahead in the Super Bowl until the defense decided to give us a preview of the late game collapses that occurred this year. It was the passing offense that Arians installed that won Super Bowl #6 with Ben leading the offense down the field and linking up with Santonio.

Nope.. that was the BA offense who kept our D on the field... LOL!!!

NW Steeler
01-06-2010, 03:32 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

As I recall we were safely ahead in the Super Bowl until the defense decided to give us a preview of the late game collapses that occurred this year. It was the passing offense that Arians installed that won Super Bowl #6 with Ben leading the offense down the field and linking up with Santonio.

I put that last drive ALL on Ben and Santonio. Araians gets no credit for that.

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 03:37 PM
For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

As I recall we were safely ahead in the Super Bowl until the defense decided to give us a preview of the late game collapses that occurred this year. It was the passing offense that Arians installed that won Super Bowl #6 with Ben leading the offense down the field and linking up with Santonio.

I put that last drive ALL on Ben and Santonio. Araians gets no credit for that.

I agree. Ben was able to do what he wanted and what he was most comfortable with in those situations. He made those calls on the field. Arians was just another spectator.

BURGH86STEEL
01-06-2010, 03:44 PM
[quote=SteelCrazy]For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

As I recall we were safely ahead in the Super Bowl until the defense decided to give us a preview of the late game collapses that occurred this year. It was the passing offense that Arians installed that won Super Bowl #6 with Ben leading the offense down the field and linking up with Santonio.

I put that last drive ALL on Ben and Santonio. Araians gets no credit for that.

I agree. Ben was able to do what he wanted and what he was most comfortable with in those situations. He made those calls on the field. Arians was just another spectator.[/quote:2fipxtbb]

Arians, Ben, and probably Tomlin consulted on that final drive of the SB. There were stoppages(2 minute warning and TO's) in between some plays.

If people don't want to give BA any credit for anything, why do they only blame him for the failures? I don't think it is fair that fans can simply blame him for the failures and then turn around and give all the credit to other people when they have success. This is the type of selective thinking that is wrong by fans. The type of thinking that turns people into scape goats.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 03:51 PM
Arians called the freaking SB winning play... you guys are crazy. All good is Ben.. All bad on the TEAM is BA.. ST's, D, Gatorade too warm.. it's all BA.

SteelAbility
01-06-2010, 03:55 PM
Arians called the freaking SB winning play... you guys are crazy. All good is Ben.. All bad on the TEAM is BA.. ST's, D, Gatorade too warm.. it's all BA.

What's the saying? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;)

On another note. This flame war is pretty fun ain't it?? :P :moon

Starlifter
01-06-2010, 04:11 PM
I don't mind passing first. I don't mind gaudy numbers for Ben and the receivers. What I DO mind is if those numbers come at the expense of a power running game. Why should we have to have one or the other? Why do we not have the ability to run the ball 40 times effectively vs 20 pass when the weather dictates? Why do we have first and goal on the 3 yard line and everyone on this board has a large measure of doubt that we can get 6?

A great offense is one that can be whatever it needs to be to get the job done. Not a one-dimensional pass first or run first that can't adapt to the changing environment during a game.

BA has definitely transitioned this offense into something that can score quickly and in great quantity. He has done it though at the expense of an offense that can score SLOWLY and with ball control. That is a critical part of success and while the Defense and ST's bear the brunt of this season - our lack of power running played a role as well.

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 04:11 PM
Arians called the freaking SB winning play...

"Are you sure? How can you be so sure?"
http://www.dalelauner.com/MoviePictures/MyCousinVinny.jpg

Steelerphile
01-06-2010, 04:44 PM
With as much money, time and energy as are put in the game of football in this nation, there has to be powerful mind somewhere that would be superior to BA. No, he's not the worst ever, but he can be improved upon and certainly he is not someone the Steelers simply "have" to keep as Cook implies.

The Steelers don't have to go back to a total power run football game if Arians leaves. They can still feature Roethlisberger but even do it in a smarter way, but run when that is what is called for.

The problem with BA is situational play calling. Handing the ball to Mewelde Moore on a sweep when they should have gone with Mendenhall, in KC. Not employing Dixon's running ability more creatively when the first Ravens game could be won. Going "empty set" too much with a QB who holds the ball, which he should know by now. The silly pass-first offense in horrible weather conditions in Cleveland.

I just think it is common for him to make obvious mistakes. His philosophy is not completely wrong. He's been around and knows some football. But the Steelers can do better. The key would be who they hire if he left. They could bring in someone on par with Arians or worse. That's possible too.

RuthlessBurgher
01-06-2010, 04:53 PM
Arians called the freaking SB winning play... you guys are crazy. All good is Ben.. All bad on the TEAM is BA.. ST's, D, Gatorade too warm.. it's all BA.

This just in...Bruce Arians admits to peeing in the team's gatorade. Steelers Head Coach Russ Grimm doesn't care since Bruce only peed in the Lemon-Lime Gatorade, and Russ only drinks the Tropical Punch. Tune into KDKA tonight at 11:00 for more...

Pittsburgh
01-06-2010, 08:49 PM
Cuz I hate when people are so quick to jump on him, call him a janitor, etc... Frankly, I'm certain many of those who do, do so cuz he is black.

Reverend Sharpton, is that you?

stlrz d
01-06-2010, 10:00 PM
[quote=SteelCrazy]For all the Bruce supporters!!! What few of you there is, answer me this one question......I'll set it up....

In 2008 the Defense carried the Offense to a Super Bowl Championship...Granted there were a few times the O did its part and contributed at crucial times, but for the most part the D had to carry the burden of success on its shoulders.

Now for the question, Why couldn't the O, has good has it was, carry the D at least into the playoffs this year?

Anyone that answers, "Cause the D couldn't shut anyone down in the 4th Q.", will not be accepted. Just look at the scoring of the Offense in the first half compared to its scoring in the 2nd half.

The offense couldn't sustain drives in the 2nd half and score when it was in the redzone.

BRUCEY MUST GO!

As I recall we were safely ahead in the Super Bowl until the defense decided to give us a preview of the late game collapses that occurred this year. It was the passing offense that Arians installed that won Super Bowl #6 with Ben leading the offense down the field and linking up with Santonio.

I put that last drive ALL on Ben and Santonio. Araians gets no credit for that.

I agree. Ben was able to do what he wanted and what he was most comfortable with in those situations. He made those calls on the field. Arians was just another spectator.[/quote:2ybllun1]

You guys got that right. It was BEN who made some amazing escapes to keep plays alive. It was BEN who accounted for all 88 yards (84 passing and 4 rushing) on that final drive. It was BEN who was calling the plays in the no huddle.

[youtube:2ybllun1]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DI_fUCr4Kc0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DI_fUCr4Kc0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube:2ybllun1]

Oh yeah...and the D sealed the deal with a strip/sack. ;)

NorthCoast
01-06-2010, 10:19 PM
So this is the guy Tomlin is bringing back to run the offense?:

Looks like Arians grabbed the controls and tried to call the no-huddle plays on this drive….

Roethlisberger owns the NFL’s second-best winning percentage among quarterbacks but he deferred when Arians decided to call the plays during the Steelers’ final series. Late in games, Roethlisberger is usually at his best when calling his own plays out of no-huddle sets.

This time, Roethlisberger went 0 for 4 and the Steelers never gained a yard after taking over at their 33 with 1:56 remaining, more than enough time to mount a winning drive.

“It’s just something where I’ll never second-guess Bruce and he’ll never second-guess me,” Roethlisberger said. “He wanted to call them and I believed in him and the calls and I just had to execute them.”

stlrz d
01-06-2010, 10:30 PM
So this is the guy Tomlin is bringing back to run the offense?:

Looks like Arians grabbed the controls and tried to call the no-huddle plays on this drive….

Roethlisberger owns the NFL’s second-best winning percentage among quarterbacks but he deferred when Arians decided to call the plays during the Steelers’ final series. Late in games, Roethlisberger is usually at his best when calling his own plays out of no-huddle sets.

This time, Roethlisberger went 0 for 4 and the Steelers never gained a yard after taking over at their 33 with 1:56 remaining, more than enough time to mount a winning drive.

“It’s just something where I’ll never second-guess Bruce and he’ll never second-guess me,” Roethlisberger said. “He wanted to call them and I believed in him and the calls and I just had to execute them.”

Pardon me for posting the link but I think people should be able to see that entire article because I find it very interesting as I'm sure you'll agree.

http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=8539


Who calls the plays in the Steeler no-huddle offense?

By Dagger | January 6, 2010

Who calls the plays in the Steeler no-huddle offense? Well, it depends on when you ask.

The debate: Our best offense comes via the No-Huddle. Yes or No? During the no-huddle, the offensive gameplan and Bruce Arians and his playcalling are not a part of the outcome. Should your offense be clicking at its best when your OC and the contributions that he brings to the table are removed from the equation?

1) By popular demand, I pulled the following article from a Post-Gazette article on Nov. 7, 2009.

Even though it has a high success rate, the no-huddle will remain what it has always been for the Steelers: A tactic to change the tempo of the game and give the offense, when needed, an emotional and strategic lift.

It will remain an element of surprise, a package no different than the way some NFL teams employ the Wildcat formation.

“It’s hard,” said wide receiver Hines Ward, who leads the team with 42 catches and 602 receiving yards. “You get tired. You have to be in shape. You don’t have to use it every time.”

“To run the no-huddle all the time wouldn’t be too effective,” said wide receiver Santonio Holmes.

The Steelers have had great success running their no-huddle offense, and much of the credit goes to Ben Roethlisberger, who calls all the plays at the line of scrimmage.

They started the game against the Minnesota Vikings using the no-huddle, then used it again to score a late touchdown in the first half on a 40-yard pass to Mike Wallace.

But, while it seems to be a successful way to catch a defense off-balance, the offense also has its flaws, according to coach Mike Tomlin and offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

In this day and age of substitution packages and personnel groupings, the no-huddle limits the rest of the offense because coaches are unable to shuttle in different players to use different formations.

“It limits you way too much,” Arians said. “It limits what you can do offensively. You take away a lot of your play-action game and things you can do with a game plan. You basically don’t have a game plan. If you go no-huddle [all the time], shoot, I can take every night off.

“It’s a tool you use to change the tempo of the game, but you’re limited in your personnel. It’s not something we want to do wholesale every game.”

So our best offense is when our OC is taken out of the equation and the offensive game plan is tossed by the wayside? Our most effective offense is when we DON’T have a game plan?

2) From the Contra Costa Times on Nov 5th.

While operating in the hurry-up, Roethlisberger was 4 of 7 for 85 yards, with one incompletion coming when he spiked the ball. The rest of the game – the Steelers used the no-huddle on that drive only – Roethlisberger was 10 of 19 for 90 yards, partly because the Vikings kept using two safeties in deep zone coverage to discourage the pass.

“It’s something Ben likes to do,” Ward said. “It keeps defenses on their heels. … We’ve got a great feel for it and we’ve had some success running the no-huddle. It’s just a matter of whatever Ben calls, all 11 guys are on the same page and we move forward.”

Arians said this earlier season that virtually the entire offense can be run from the no-huddle.

“He can use almost 80 percent of the playbook in it, and he’s gotten very proficient with it,” Arians said.

Whatever Ben calls, eh?

3) Here is a quote from Mike Wallace after the Steelers beat the Vikings:

Question: Were those the same two plays back-to-back – on the completion and then on the long touchdown?

Answer: Yeah. It was all Ben [Roethlisberger]. We were in the no-huddle and Ben was calling all the plays. He was calling all the shots, so it was a good call by him.

============================================

4) Here is a quote from a Nov 19th USA Today article.

Looks like Arians grabbed the controls and tried to call the no-huddle plays on this drive….

Roethlisberger owns the NFL’s second-best winning percentage among quarterbacks but he deferred when Arians decided to call the plays during the Steelers’ final series. Late in games, Roethlisberger is usually at his best when calling his own plays out of no-huddle sets.

This time, Roethlisberger went 0 for 4 and the Steelers never gained a yard after taking over at their 33 with 1:56 remaining, more than enough time to mount a winning drive.

“It’s just something where I’ll never second-guess Bruce and he’ll never second-guess me,” Roethlisberger said. “He wanted to call them and I believed in him and the calls and I just had to execute them.”

5) After the Green Bay game, check out this Q&A from Tomlin’s press conference:

Q: Did Ben Roethlisberger call all the plays on that last drive? Or was he receiving the plays from the sideline?

A: He received all those plays from the sideline.

Arians only started getting credit for no-huddle calls as soon as people started talking about whether or not has was going to get fired after week 10.

Week 10: 12 points against the Bengals.

Week 11: Loss to KC

Week 12: 17 pts vs Baltimore and awful play-calling/no designed roll-outs with Dixon.

Week 13: Loss to Oakland

Week 14: 6 points vs Cleveland.

Prior to week 10 everything was great, everybody loved everybody. The final 3 games of the season hit and rumblings start the BA might be gone. Tomlin starts to field questions every week about Arians, the no-huddle, who is calling the plays during the final minutes of these games, etc….and he snaps “those plays came from the sidelines.”

Btw, what's up with Arians first saying that the no huddle limits the offense way to much and then later saying that 80% of the play book can be run from it and that if they went no huddle all the time he could just take the day off (which I would be in favor of, btw)???

SteelTorch
01-07-2010, 12:16 AM
Simply heinous. That's all I'll say for now. :HeadBanger

grotonsteel
01-07-2010, 12:41 AM
Arians need to go. I just don't think he can bring anything more on table.

I am not an Arian Basher. Infact i think he made Big Ben a better QB.

steelnavy
01-07-2010, 12:10 PM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

I'm not alone... He is spot on too... No one thinks BA is perfect or without flaw...
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

You are not a lone. I for know the offense showed improvement over last season. People don't want to see it because of hate. Hate over a few bad or questionable calls. If people think another OC will never have bad games or make questionable calls then they are mistaken.

The defensive side of the ball took a major step back. The special teams can also be lumped in with the defense.

Burgh

Been listening to your BA love fest for a long time, and tired of hearing your "expert" opinion of why Arians is unfairly criticized by the sheep who don't know any better. Your favorite response is that we are all "haters" and are looking for a scapegoat.

Do you have a PhD in Psychology? Are you an ex-football coach? Do you understand the world better than everybody else? When people don't agree with you, try laying off with stereotyping/writing them off as haters and sheep with some sort of agenda.

Reading BA's Bio is a great example of why he shouldn't be our coordinator. The man has been mediocre his entire life and is happy with it. I don't know you, but if I were to stereotype you (like you do to me) as to why you are satisfied with Bruce, then I might theorize that you are mediocre in everything you do in life and therefor support someone that reflects yourself. On the other hand, I strive to do the best I can every day and expect that from my peers and subordinates. Mediocrity is unacceptable. That is why I can't stand BA. His lack of imagination and ability to adjust his game planning to the environment around him underwhelms me immensely.

Long story short, defend BA with facts, provide a good debate and stop analyzing/stereotyping/writing off those that disagree with you. I find it quite insulting.

feltdizz
01-07-2010, 12:37 PM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

I'm not alone... He is spot on too... No one thinks BA is perfect or without flaw...
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

You are not a lone. I for know the offense showed improvement over last season. People don't want to see it because of hate. Hate over a few bad or questionable calls. If people think another OC will never have bad games or make questionable calls then they are mistaken.

The defensive side of the ball took a major step back. The special teams can also be lumped in with the defense.

Burgh

Been listening to your BA love fest for a long time, and tired of hearing your "expert" opinion of why Arians is unfairly criticized by the sheep who don't know any better. Your favorite response is that we are all "haters" and are looking for a scapegoat.

Do you have a PhD in Psychology? Are you an ex-football coach? Do you understand the world better than everybody else? When people don't agree with you, try laying off with stereotyping/writing them off as haters and sheep with some sort of agenda.

Reading BA's Bio is a great example of why he shouldn't be our coordinator. The man has been mediocre his entire life and is happy with it. I don't know you, but if I were to stereotype you (like you do to me) as to why you are satisfied with Bruce, then I might theorize that you are mediocre in everything you do in life and therefor support someone that reflects yourself. On the other hand, I strive to do the best I can every day and expect that from my peers and subordinates. Mediocrity is unacceptable. That is why I can't stand BA. His lack of imagination and ability to adjust his game planning to the environment around him underwhelms me immensely.

Long story short, defend BA with facts, provide a good debate and stop analyzing/stereotyping/writing off those that disagree with you. I find it quite insulting.

It is a long story.. and a boring one. :moon

if being called a hater is insulting it's because you are one..
if you expect excellence then Lebeau would have been fired last year.

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.

SteelTorch
01-07-2010, 12:43 PM
It is a long story.. and a boring one. :moon

if being called a hater is insulting it's because you are one..
if you expect excellence then Lebeau would have been fired last year.

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.
Just for the record, the whole "if you're insulted it must be true" tactic is not a good way to prove a point.

And by the way, you pretty much did exactly what he said: resort to stereotypes. :moon

feltdizz
01-07-2010, 12:56 PM
It is a long story.. and a boring one. :moon

if being called a hater is insulting it's because you are one..
if you expect excellence then Lebeau would have been fired last year.

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.
Just for the record, the whole "if you're insulted it must be true" tactic is not a good way to prove a point.

And by the way, you pretty much did exactly what he said: resort to stereotypes. :moon

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.
you big :Binky

SteelTorch
01-07-2010, 01:06 PM
It is a long story.. and a boring one. :moon

if being called a hater is insulting it's because you are one..
if you expect excellence then Lebeau would have been fired last year.

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.
Just for the record, the whole "if you're insulted it must be true" tactic is not a good way to prove a point.

And by the way, you pretty much did exactly what he said: resort to stereotypes. :moon

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.
you big :Binky

Right...so the next time a person addresses me as a hater, I'll assume he's talking about somebody else. :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
01-07-2010, 01:42 PM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

I'm not alone... He is spot on too... No one thinks BA is perfect or without flaw...
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

You are not a lone. I for know the offense showed improvement over last season. People don't want to see it because of hate. Hate over a few bad or questionable calls. If people think another OC will never have bad games or make questionable calls then they are mistaken.

The defensive side of the ball took a major step back. The special teams can also be lumped in with the defense.

Burgh

Been listening to your BA love fest for a long time, and tired of hearing your "expert" opinion of why Arians is unfairly criticized by the sheep who don't know any better. Your favorite response is that we are all "haters" and are looking for a scapegoat.

Do you have a PhD in Psychology? Are you an ex-football coach? Do you understand the world better than everybody else? When people don't agree with you, try laying off with stereotyping/writing them off as haters and sheep with some sort of agenda.

Reading BA's Bio is a great example of why he shouldn't be our coordinator. The man has been mediocre his entire life and is happy with it. I don't know you, but if I were to stereotype you (like you do to me) as to why you are satisfied with Bruce, then I might theorize that you are mediocre in everything you do in life and therefor support someone that reflects yourself. On the other hand, I strive to do the best I can every day and expect that from my peers and subordinates. Mediocrity is unacceptable. That is why I can't stand BA. His lack of imagination and ability to adjust his game planning to the environment around him underwhelms me immensely.

Long story short, defend BA with facts, provide a good debate and stop analyzing/stereotyping/writing off those that disagree with you. I find it quite insulting.

It is a long story.. and a boring one. :moon

if being called a hater is insulting it's because you are one..
if you expect excellence then Lebeau would have been fired last year.

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.

I don't understand the statement highlighted in red. LeBeau was excellent last year. It doesn't seem to make sense. :?:

feltdizz
01-07-2010, 01:48 PM
I meant 2009 season.

RuthlessBurgher
01-07-2010, 02:17 PM
I meant 2009 season.

Gotcha. Change in calendar year from 2009 to 2010. I was thinking in terms of seasons (and it didn't make sense why anyone would even consider getting rid of Arians last offseason).

steelnavy
01-07-2010, 02:20 PM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

I'm not alone... He is spot on too... No one thinks BA is perfect or without flaw...
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

You are not a lone. I for know the offense showed improvement over last season. People don't want to see it because of hate. Hate over a few bad or questionable calls. If people think another OC will never have bad games or make questionable calls then they are mistaken.

The defensive side of the ball took a major step back. The special teams can also be lumped in with the defense.

Burgh

Been listening to your BA love fest for a long time, and tired of hearing your "expert" opinion of why Arians is unfairly criticized by the sheep who don't know any better. Your favorite response is that we are all "haters" and are looking for a scapegoat.

Do you have a PhD in Psychology? Are you an ex-football coach? Do you understand the world better than everybody else? When people don't agree with you, try laying off with stereotyping/writing them off as haters and sheep with some sort of agenda.

Reading BA's Bio is a great example of why he shouldn't be our coordinator. The man has been mediocre his entire life and is happy with it. I don't know you, but if I were to stereotype you (like you do to me) as to why you are satisfied with Bruce, then I might theorize that you are mediocre in everything you do in life and therefor support someone that reflects yourself. On the other hand, I strive to do the best I can every day and expect that from my peers and subordinates. Mediocrity is unacceptable. That is why I can't stand BA. His lack of imagination and ability to adjust his game planning to the environment around him underwhelms me immensely.

Long story short, defend BA with facts, provide a good debate and stop analyzing/stereotyping/writing off those that disagree with you. I find it quite insulting.

It is a long story.. and a boring one. :moon

if being called a hater is insulting it's because you are one..
if you expect excellence then Lebeau would have been fired last year.

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.

Feltdizz

Please take the time to process what I said. I have a problem with BA because he has NEVER excelled at coaching in the NFL (or college). Lebeau, on the other hand, Has excelled at EVERYTHING he has ever done. Everybody has good and bad years. And I would argue that Lebeau's bad year is about equal to BA's best year.

FOR THE MOST PART OVER THE LONG TERM:
Lebeau = consistently better than average (as a football player and coach)
Arians = consistently average or below average

Which guy deserves the benefit of the doubt and which one should get canned? Better yet, who do you hire for your small company? The constant overachiever with solid record or middle of the pack, mediocre Joe who has never excelled in his field?

If BA is so worth keeping, why are no other teams breaking down the door to get him? Guess they all read this board and we "haters" scared them away?

And BTW, did you notice that you and Burgh (and sprinkle in Papillon lately) are about the only BA (major) supporters on this board? Does that make you smarter than the rest of us?

feltdizz
01-07-2010, 02:42 PM
It is a long story.. and a boring one. :moon

if being called a hater is insulting it's because you are one..
if you expect excellence then Lebeau would have been fired last year.

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.

Feltdizz

Please take the time to process what I said. I have a problem with BA because he has NEVER excelled at coaching in the NFL (or college). Lebeau, on the other hand, Has excelled at EVERYTHING he has ever done. Everybody has good and bad years. And I would argue that Lebeau's bad year is about equal to BA's best year.

FOR THE MOST PART OVER THE LONG TERM:
Lebeau = consistently better than average (as a football player and coach)
Arians = consistently average or below average

Which guy deserves the benefit of the doubt and which one should get canned? Better yet, who do you hire for your small company? The constant overachiever with solid record or middle of the pack, mediocre Joe who has never excelled in his field?

If BA is so worth keeping, why are no other teams breaking down the door to get him? Guess they all read this board and we "haters" scared them away?

And BTW, did you notice that you and Burgh (and sprinkle in Papillon lately) are about the only BA (major) supporters on this board? Does that make you smarter than the rest of us?

Yep... on this issue it does. Tomlin, the Rooneys, FO, Investors, Ben and Holmes all agree on this...

The reason Pap, Burgh and a few others are the lone few who support keeping BA around.. for various reason that have nothing to do with BA being a genius or the best..
is because we are realist... we step back and look at the whole picture and not just at BA. Most BA haters can't even admit to a good play call or good over all game plan when we do win. It's always in spite of BA or because of Ben... yet Ben loves BA so you tell me who is smart?

No other teams are breaking down Arians door because they can't get Ben to come with him...

like I said before... the best OC's are the ones with mediocre talent and excel... look at the top 5 passers in the league.. only the Saints OC can be seen as a pure genius because the culture of losing was shed. Look what Whiz has done with Leinart.. nothing.

You can hate BA all you want... but BA doesn't coach the D or play D.
Stop inserting BA into all of the Steelers woes and focus on each aspect of the team when making assessments.

cruzer8
01-07-2010, 03:35 PM
BA is the baby who should have been thrown out with the bath water.

steelnavy
01-07-2010, 04:20 PM
It is a long story.. and a boring one. :moon

if being called a hater is insulting it's because you are one..
if you expect excellence then Lebeau would have been fired last year.

in closing... stop taking another person's opinion personal.

Feltdizz

Please take the time to process what I said. I have a problem with BA because he has NEVER excelled at coaching in the NFL (or college). Lebeau, on the other hand, Has excelled at EVERYTHING he has ever done. Everybody has good and bad years. And I would argue that Lebeau's bad year is about equal to BA's best year.

FOR THE MOST PART OVER THE LONG TERM:
Lebeau = consistently better than average (as a football player and coach)
Arians = consistently average or below average

Which guy deserves the benefit of the doubt and which one should get canned? Better yet, who do you hire for your small company? The constant overachiever with solid record or middle of the pack, mediocre Joe who has never excelled in his field?

If BA is so worth keeping, why are no other teams breaking down the door to get him? Guess they all read this board and we "haters" scared them away?

And BTW, did you notice that you and Burgh (and sprinkle in Papillon lately) are about the only BA (major) supporters on this board? Does that make you smarter than the rest of us?

Yep... on this issue it does. Tomlin, the Rooneys, FO, Investors, Ben and Holmes all agree on this...

The reason Pap, Burgh and a few others are the lone few who support keeping BA around.. for various reason that have nothing to do with BA being a genius or the best..
is because we are realist... we step back and look at the whole picture and not just at BA. Most BA haters can't even admit to a good play call or good over all game plan when we do win. It's always in spite of BA or because of Ben... yet Ben loves BA so you tell me who is smart?

No other teams are breaking down Arians door because they can't get Ben to come with him...

like I said before... the best OC's are the ones with mediocre talent and excel... look at the top 5 passers in the league.. only the Saints OC can be seen as a pure genius because the culture of losing was shed. Look what Whiz has done with Leinart.. nothing.

You can hate BA all you want... but BA doesn't coach the D or play D.
Stop inserting BA into all of the Steelers woes and focus on each aspect of the team when making assessments.


Man, Feltdizz, you make A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS.

"because we are realist... we step back and look at the whole picture and not just at BA."

Right, because NOBODY ELSE is a realist and refuses to focus beyond BA. (just you, Burgh and Papillon).

"Most BA haters can't even admit to a good play call or good over all game plan when we do win."

Really, and where did you get that fact from?

"No other teams are breaking down Arians door because they can't get Ben to come with him..."

Wow, from where did you glean this tidbit?

"the best OC's are the ones with mediocre talent and excel..."

So OCs with good talent that excel are not the best... and mediocre OCs (BA) with great talent are the best? WTF

"You can hate BA all you want"

Because I think that BA stinks and want him gone, therefor I must hate him. Hmmmm...

"Stop inserting BA into all of the Steelers woes and focus on each aspect of the team when making assessments."

You're right because NO ONE BUT YOU EVER COMPLAINS about special teams, horrible secondary, etc...

Dude, learn how to debate and make sound arguments.

FELTDIZZ = BURGH86 = Arians

BURGH86STEEL
01-07-2010, 04:30 PM
Ron Cook = feltdizz :?:

I'm not alone... He is spot on too... No one thinks BA is perfect or without flaw...
This season is the worst year to make a case for his dismissal IMO.

You are not a lone. I for know the offense showed improvement over last season. People don't want to see it because of hate. Hate over a few bad or questionable calls. If people think another OC will never have bad games or make questionable calls then they are mistaken.

The defensive side of the ball took a major step back. The special teams can also be lumped in with the defense.

Burgh

Been listening to your BA love fest for a long time, and tired of hearing your "expert" opinion of why Arians is unfairly criticized by the sheep who don't know any better. Your favorite response is that we are all "haters" and are looking for a scapegoat.

Do you have a PhD in Psychology? Are you an ex-football coach? Do you understand the world better than everybody else? When people don't agree with you, try laying off with stereotyping/writing them off as haters and sheep with some sort of agenda.

Reading BA's Bio is a great example of why he shouldn't be our coordinator. The man has been mediocre his entire life and is happy with it. I don't know you, but if I were to stereotype you (like you do to me) as to why you are satisfied with Bruce, then I might theorize that you are mediocre in everything you do in life and therefor support someone that reflects yourself. On the other hand, I strive to do the best I can every day and expect that from my peers and subordinates. Mediocrity is unacceptable. That is why I can't stand BA. His lack of imagination and ability to adjust his game planning to the environment around him underwhelms me immensely.

Long story short, defend BA with facts, provide a good debate and stop analyzing/stereotyping/writing off those that disagree with you. I find it quite insulting.

I really don't have a love feast with BA. I can care less if BA goes or stays. After all, he will eventually go one day. My stance is usually to be fair to the players and coaches of the team. There are things that each of them can do better. I can also understand why coaches don't simply give up on other coaches or players.

People do look for BA to be the goat. I've read many posts to know this to be true. When people single him out for the teams failures, the defenses failures, or anything else that goes wrong with the team, that is the definition of goat in my book. People almost look for reasons to blame him. When the offense plays well, it is Ben. When they fail, it is BA. What does that mean to you?

Define your feelings towards Arians? Does can't stand qualify as hate?

It is only YOUR opinion that you feel he should not be an OC. The experts in the NFL feel as though Arians is qualified to be an OC. He proved he can be a good OC. Good enough to be on 2 coaching staffs(position coach and OC) that won 2 SB's. Is that the definition of mediocre? He's also coached some pretty good QB's and WR's.

Do you believe that BA strives to be mediocre? Come on man. Strange how you try to psychoanalyze me. Guess you are more of an expert then I am.

I would go through everything and show you that he adjusts his game plans. Well enough to help the team make the playoffs in 07 and win the SB in 08. The offense also showed a lot of improvement this season. There are areas they can continue to work to improve.

It is pointless because no matter what I say or show you, you have your mind made up about BA. I hope this offense shows more improvement to prove fans wrong. Then again, fans will continue to state, "they won in spite of BA." LOL

feltdizz
01-07-2010, 05:16 PM
Man, Feltdizz, you make A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS.

"because we are realist... we step back and look at the whole picture and not just at BA."

Right, because NOBODY ELSE is a realist and refuses to focus beyond BA. (just you, Burgh and Papillon).

Then please do, most BA haters tend to spend their time asking others to stop focusing on the other areas and spend all day bashing Arians...

"Most BA haters can't even admit to a good play call or good over all game plan when we do win."

Really, and where did you get that fact from?

From most BA haters who say it

"No other teams are breaking down Arians door because they can't get Ben to come with him..."

Wow, from where did you glean this tidbit?

My mind.. it's where all my opinions come from, I guess you pull yours from other sources or outlets... please wash your hands!

"the best OC's are the ones with mediocre talent and excel..."

So OCs with good talent that excel are not the best... and mediocre OCs (BA) with great talent are the best? WTF

I meant talent in terms of players to work with.. it doesn't make sense saying the best OC's are mediocre.. sorry if you were confused

"You can hate BA all you want"

Because I think that BA stinks and want him gone, therefor I must hate him. Hmmmm...

I'm scared of what hate sounds like if that isn't it.... That's a funny way of saying thanks, but no thanks.

"Stop inserting BA into all of the Steelers woes and focus on each aspect of the team when making assessments."

You're right because NO ONE BUT YOU EVER COMPLAINS about special teams, horrible secondary, etc...

Who said no one else? This is directed at you.. I'm responding to your post in here..

Dude, learn how to debate and make sound arguments.

FELTDIZZ = BURGH86 = Arians

inserting: "because no one but you does this..." after a fact isn't debating. It's sarcastically agreeing with me.

and stating" "where did you here this or see this" after an opinion is not debating. It's being a tool...