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View Full Version : BA officially outta here!



rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 03:20 PM
Ken Laird reporting on ESPN radio right now that BA is officially outta here!!! HELL YEAH BABY!!!!

rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 03:23 PM
He stated that Tomlin didn't like the 60/40 pass/run ratio. And he was very unhappy with situational football. As well as all the sacks. Now, where have I heard that before?


Rockon

steelblood
01-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Wow.

JAR
01-05-2010, 03:25 PM
Batch for OC! :)

rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 03:29 PM
Wow.
Yeah, I'm a little surprised too. I was praying for it to happen, just wasn't sure it would. Now, hopefully the word balance will be introduced to the Steelers offense.


Rockon

SteelerNation1
01-05-2010, 03:30 PM
I have mixed emotions. Sure some of his red zone failures were awful. But we had a 4000 yrd QB, 1000 yrd RB, and 2 1000 yrd WRs. :stirpot

steelblood
01-05-2010, 03:30 PM
Hmm. I'm not seeing anything on the net.

You have 6 posts. Are you full of crap?

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 03:33 PM
well, now we get to bash the new OC and see if he can rescue the D...

JAR
01-05-2010, 03:34 PM
Hmm. I'm not seeing anything on the net.

You have 6 posts. Are you full of crap?

I'm seeing other boards talk about it too.

Leper Friend
01-05-2010, 03:36 PM
Hmm. I'm not seeing anything on the net.

You have 6 posts. Are you full of crap?

I'm seeing other boards talk about it too.I heard the same thing as the thread starter. However , Laird said it's from his sources and nothing is official.

rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 03:36 PM
Hmm. I'm not seeing anything on the net.

You have 6 posts. Are you full of crap?

Sorry. No link. Ken Laird was just on ESPN Radio 1250 with Mike Logan and company. He said it then. He did say he didn't know when the Steelers would make it official, but expects it be this week sometime. But, he said it's absolutely a done deal. If you can listen online, I'm sure they're gonna talking about the rest of the afternoon.


Rockon

papillon
01-05-2010, 03:37 PM
Blaming Arians for this year's version of the Steelers failures is like blaming a knife and fork for being obese.

This certainly means that Lebeau will be let go as well. If the offense is being blamed then the defense has to have someone fall on the sword as well.

Pappy

JAR
01-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Logan's show was also spewing BS about the offense hating the defense, everyone hating Ben, blah, blah, blah....

JTP53609
01-05-2010, 03:43 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

Mister Pittsburgh
01-05-2010, 03:45 PM
Blaming Arians for this year's version of the Steelers failures is like blaming a knife and fork for being obese.

This certainly means that Lebeau will be let go as well. If the offense is being blamed then the defense has to have someone fall on the sword as well.

Pappy

What was the offenses excuse for being middle of the road in points scored this season despite the glorious yardage totals? Were they missing 2 pro bowlers?

Missing Troy & Aaron Smith is comparable to losing Ben & Heath or Hines for half the season.

papillon
01-05-2010, 03:45 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

Me either, but if he is fired I would love to see a fullback get reincarnated in the Steeler offense. I've accepted Bruce Arians style of offense, I don't like it, but he's made it work by and large for the past three years.

I will not have a problem with his firing; I still believe age and conditioning played a bigger role int he debacle that was the 2009 season.

Pappy

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 03:47 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

I would love to take the ball out of Ben's hands and get back to 25 to 30 passes and heavy runs... I would be very surprised if BA goes.

It seems as though the media in Pittsburgh are very anti Arians..
I wonder if this is why the locker room is said to be divided..

much of the blame for Arians is him putting the game in Ben's hands...

rockonsteel
01-05-2010, 03:50 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...


I strongly disagree. 60/40 pass/run ratio is the exact definition of NOT balanced.


Rockon

steelblood
01-05-2010, 03:54 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

BA did some very good things. He was a pretty good game plan guy. He spread the field out and finally gave Ben a vote of confidence he felt he never got from Cowher and Whiz. He really brought the best out of Ben, Holmes, Wallace, and Heath.

His red zone offense, in game adjustments, and running play design (our best running plays were the ones from coordinators past) were poor.

ikestops85
01-05-2010, 03:56 PM
In my book Arians was a very average coordinator who produced an average offense. He had his moments but they were few and far between. The offense seemed to be more dynamic when they went hurry up and Ben called the plays.

Bring on Chan Gailey :Boobs

SteelTorch
01-05-2010, 03:56 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...


I strongly disagree. 60/40 pass/run ratio is the exact definition of NOT balanced.


Rockon
Like it or not though, this IS a passing league these days. Cripes, it's so easy to score these days that time of possession almost doesn't matter. People need to get out of the mindset that running the ball more will solve our problems.

The key is execution: knowing when to pass or run, and being able to do it when needed. We couldn't do it, and THAT was why I loathed BA.

Steeler Mafia
01-05-2010, 03:59 PM
I will hold my celebration until I hear something official. I don't want to get my hopes up then find out it isn't true.

toddjammin
01-05-2010, 03:59 PM
It's Offical, Arians out of here!!!!

Per KDKA.com

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) ? Click to enlarge1 of 1
Bruce Arians. (File)
NFL Photos/Getty Images

Close




numSlides of totalImages The Pittsburgh Steelers are apparently wasting no time in shaking things up after not making the playoffs, by reportedly firing offensive coordinator Bruce Arians Tuesday afternoon.

According to ESPN 1250's Ken Laird, the announcement was made shortly after 2 p.m. and after Mike Tomlin addressed the media during a weekly press conference.

The Steelers have made no official comment at this point,

Initially hired by Bill Cower to be the wide receiver coach and served three years in that position.

Arians was promoted to offensive coordinator in January of 2007 and just completed his third year with the team in that role.

Earlier in the day quarterbacks coach Ken Anderson retired from the NFL after 33 years as a player and a coach.

Stay With KDKA.com For More Details

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:00 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

BA did some very good things. He was a pretty good game plan guy. He spread the field out and finally gave Ben a vote of confidence he felt he never got from Cowher and Whiz. He allowed Ben to spread things out and really brought the best out of Holmes, Wallace, and Heath.

His red zone offense, in game adjustments, and running play design (our best running plays were the ones from coordinators past) were poor.

BA let Ben do whatever he wanted.. and while we love what Ben can do.. he also does some stupid things like taking red zone sacks on 1st down or 2nd down..

or out of the empty set that Ben has to love because we run it so much, Ben still holding the ball like he has protection and time..

Ben is a beast but he frustrated Whiz and Cowher to no end the the sandlot ball... but it works for Ben more times then not. However when it doesn't work we shrug it off as Ben being Ben or BA being an idiot..

with the official report now in... prepare for Ben to have a "who the hell knows" kinda year.

RuthlessBurgher
01-05-2010, 04:02 PM
It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/


Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:05 PM
If KDKA reports it... has has to be true.

Iron Shiek
01-05-2010, 04:05 PM
It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/


Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

Mister Pittsburgh
01-05-2010, 04:06 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...


I strongly disagree. 60/40 pass/run ratio is the exact definition of NOT balanced.


Rockon
Like it or not though, this IS a passing league these days. Cripes, it's so easy to score these days that time of possession almost doesn't matter. People need to get out of the mindset that running the ball more will solve our problems.

The key is execution: knowing when to pass or run, and being able to do it when needed. We couldn't do it, and THAT was why I loathed BA.

I disagree. The two teams ahead of us in the AFCN won by running the football with some authority.

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:06 PM
It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/


Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.

papillon
01-05-2010, 04:08 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

BA did some very good things. He was a pretty good game plan guy. He spread the field out and finally gave Ben a vote of confidence he felt he never got from Cowher and Whiz. He allowed Ben to spread things out and really brought the best out of Holmes, Wallace, and Heath.

His red zone offense, in game adjustments, and running play design (our best running plays were the ones from coordinators past) were poor.

BA let Ben do whatever he wanted.. and while we love what Ben can do.. he also does some stupid things like taking red zone sacks on 1st down or 2nd down..

or out of the empty set that Ben has to love because we run it so much, Ben still holding the ball like he has protection and time..

Ben is a beast but he frustrated Whiz and Cowher to no end the the sandlot ball... but it works for Ben more times then not. However when it doesn't work we shrug it off as Ben being Ben or BA being an idiot..

with the official report now in... prepare for Ben to have a "who the hell knows" kinda year.

I dont' care who the OC is for the Steelers Ben is not changing the way he plays the game. Maybe they'll hire Kevin Gilbride. :P

Pappy

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:12 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...


I strongly disagree. 60/40 pass/run ratio is the exact definition of NOT balanced.


Rockon
Like it or not though, this IS a passing league these days. Cripes, it's so easy to score these days that time of possession almost doesn't matter. People need to get out of the mindset that running the ball more will solve our problems.

The key is execution: knowing when to pass or run, and being able to do it when needed. We couldn't do it, and THAT was why I loathed BA.

I disagree. The two teams ahead of us in the AFCN won by running the football with some authority.

I hate how people make it sound like running more means benching Ben...
it helps Ben to run more as well.. less sacks, less WR miscommunication for INT's and better OL confidence...

I just came to the conclusion Ben had BA in his pocket... plus screaming for more runs brought the dreaded "passing league" term.

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:14 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

BA did some very good things. He was a pretty good game plan guy. He spread the field out and finally gave Ben a vote of confidence he felt he never got from Cowher and Whiz. He allowed Ben to spread things out and really brought the best out of Holmes, Wallace, and Heath.

His red zone offense, in game adjustments, and running play design (our best running plays were the ones from coordinators past) were poor.

BA let Ben do whatever he wanted.. and while we love what Ben can do.. he also does some stupid things like taking red zone sacks on 1st down or 2nd down..

or out of the empty set that Ben has to love because we run it so much, Ben still holding the ball like he has protection and time..

Ben is a beast but he frustrated Whiz and Cowher to no end the the sandlot ball... but it works for Ben more times then not. However when it doesn't work we shrug it off as Ben being Ben or BA being an idiot..

with the official report now in... prepare for Ben to have a "who the hell knows" kinda year.

I dont' care who the OC is for the Steelers Ben is not changing the way he plays the game. Maybe they'll hire Kevin Gilbride. :P

Pappy

I would love another Whiz type who limits Ben's attempts a little but I wonder if Ben would go for it at this point in his career or butt heads.

papillon
01-05-2010, 04:18 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

BA did some very good things. He was a pretty good game plan guy. He spread the field out and finally gave Ben a vote of confidence he felt he never got from Cowher and Whiz. He allowed Ben to spread things out and really brought the best out of Holmes, Wallace, and Heath.

His red zone offense, in game adjustments, and running play design (our best running plays were the ones from coordinators past) were poor.

BA let Ben do whatever he wanted.. and while we love what Ben can do.. he also does some stupid things like taking red zone sacks on 1st down or 2nd down..

or out of the empty set that Ben has to love because we run it so much, Ben still holding the ball like he has protection and time..

Ben is a beast but he frustrated Whiz and Cowher to no end the the sandlot ball... but it works for Ben more times then not. However when it doesn't work we shrug it off as Ben being Ben or BA being an idiot..

with the official report now in... prepare for Ben to have a "who the hell knows" kinda year.

I dont' care who the OC is for the Steelers Ben is not changing the way he plays the game. Maybe they'll hire Kevin Gilbride. :P

Pappy

I would love another Whiz type who limits Ben's attempts a little but I wonder if Ben would go for it at this point in his career or butt heads.

I would love for Ben's attempts to be limited. His YPA is so high there is no reason for him to just lock and load as foten as he did. Now with Mendenhall emerging there really isn't any reason not to cut back on Ben;s attempts.

I will say this though, I wouldn't cut back in the first half of games. I'd establish Ben with a 60/40 mix of pass to run to get the lead hopefully and then turn it over to the offensive line and Mendy. Then the threat of Ben makes it easier to run out of passing formations and vice versa. This was the recipe in 2004 and 2005.

Of course, this strategy will rely on the defense to actually show up and play in the second half of games.

Pappy

BDESteel
01-05-2010, 04:18 PM
It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/


Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.Ha ha ha! You said Janky. I thought that was a west coast term. :lol:

About Arians, so many threads have been written all year about how horrible BA was at calling plays. Then when he gets dumped there's people coming outta the wood works to defend him. I don't get it. He was fired for the same reasons we all hated him for and I can't wait to see the kind of offense we have next year.

Ben is an all star and can adjust to a few changes. Getting the running game back is big in my opinion.

SteelBucks
01-05-2010, 04:18 PM
It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/


Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.

KDKA also reported a few years ago that Russ Grimm was hired as HC over Tomlin. I'll wait for the official report from the team before I start doing my happy dance! :Beer

proudpittsburgher
01-05-2010, 04:20 PM
I hate how people make it sound like running more means benching Ben...
it helps Ben to run more as well.. less sacks, less WR miscommunication for INT's and better OL confidence...

As has been the debate ad nauseum on here, you take the good with the bad. Less sacks yes, but less big plays when things fall apart. Less WR miscommunication . . . hell, what, that happened on two plays over 17 games this season? And the offensive line which has been maturing over this season alone and which has been worked on to become a pretty good pass-blocking O-line now has to switch it over and concentrate more on the run.

I see a new OC as taking a step back initially to possibly, and notice I said possibly because nothing is a given, take a few steps foward down the road. And exactly how much of an opne window do we have with an aging defense?

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:20 PM
It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/


Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.Ha ha ha! You said Janky. I thought that was a west coast term. :lol:

About Arians, so many threads have been written all year about how horrible BA was at calling plays. Then when he gets dumped there's people coming outta the wood works to defend him. I don't get it. He was fired for the same reasons we all hated him for and I can't wait to see the kind of offense we have next year.

Ben is an all star and can adjust to a few changes. Getting the running game back is big in my opinion.

It is... I got it from listening to Pharcyde.... and I have a few friends from San Jose and LA..

Mister Pittsburgh
01-05-2010, 04:26 PM
I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...


I strongly disagree. 60/40 pass/run ratio is the exact definition of NOT balanced.


Rockon
Like it or not though, this IS a passing league these days. Cripes, it's so easy to score these days that time of possession almost doesn't matter. People need to get out of the mindset that running the ball more will solve our problems.

The key is execution: knowing when to pass or run, and being able to do it when needed. We couldn't do it, and THAT was why I loathed BA.

I disagree. The two teams ahead of us in the AFCN won by running the football with some authority.

I hate how people make it sound like running more means benching Ben...
it helps Ben to run more as well.. less sacks, less WR miscommunication for INT's and better OL confidence...

I just came to the conclusion Ben had BA in his pocket... plus screaming for more runs brought the dreaded "passing league" term.

Wasn't trying to imply we handcuff Ben and go the Run, Run, Pass offense. First off, I don't think we can do that. Our interior linemen are too crappy to even attempt to do that. We would be 3 and out again.

I think we need to really work on having an intermediate passing game. More designed short passes to our RB's, TE's, and WR's. Let them make plays with their legs. Arians offense was too much geared to the all or nothing approach. It seemed, at least to me, we were either always throwing stay patterns out in the flats from the bunch formation or gunning it 10+ yds downfield. I would love to see Holmes used more in the Wes Welker type of role where he turns a quick 5 yard pass into a big gainer by making one guy miss. I would love to see a little Kevin Faulk type RB brought in to go in the no huddle type offense or quick offense and on 3rd down. Officially I think Mendenhall would be good at this but he has dropped too many damn passes. We need sure handed players. Not even sure Holmes could fill a Welker type role. Welker catches EVERYTHING in reach.

In the end I don't think Arians offense was ideal for playing on a natural grass field that turns to crap and throwing the ball 15 yards downfield consistently in December isn't ideal for northern teams.

I also don't think with the interior linemen we have expecting the run, run pass offense to work is ideal at this time either. Mendenhall needs to work on his hands so we can run or pass with the same players on the field so teams don't know whats coming.

papillon
01-05-2010, 04:28 PM
Doesn't the new OC almost have to continue a similar offense? Starks, Kemo and Hartwig are all signed at a minimum through 2012 and they have been pass blocking for 2 years now. How much of a change can you expect and the offense still be effective?

Pappy

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:29 PM
I hate how people make it sound like running more means benching Ben...
it helps Ben to run more as well.. less sacks, less WR miscommunication for INT's and better OL confidence...

As has been the debate ad nauseum on here, you take the good with the bad. Less sacks yes, but less big plays when things fall apart. Less WR miscommunication . . . hell, what, that happened on two plays over 17 games this season? And the offensive line which has been maturing over this season alone and which has been worked on to become a pretty good pass-blocking O-line now has to switch it over and concentrate more on the run.

I see a new OC as taking a step back initially to possibly, and notice I said possibly because nothing is a given, take a few steps foward down the road. And exactly how much of an opne window do we have with an aging defense?

WR communication happens any time a WR is 4 yards from the ball... I'm not talking game changing play, just plays over the course of a season.

50 sacks is not pretty good.. it's horrible. In fairness Ben will always take sacks...
This team is still a much better run blocking team if we committed to it more often.

how many big plays are lost by running instead of passing? Who knows? How do we know if Mend won't bust off a few good runs that show the holes in the other teams D...
or set up a big play pass without having to trade another 4 experimental sacks/incompletions that stop clock or kill drives?

All I'm saying is there is room for both.. we won 15 straight games with a run heavy O..
Sometimes Ben threw 15 to 20 passes, had 150 to 220 yards and 2 TD's.. he was still making big plays..

SteelAbility
01-05-2010, 04:29 PM
well, now we get to bash the new OC and see if he can rescue the D...

I'm thinking Troy alone will rescue the D. A. Smith won't hurt either. ;)

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:40 PM
well, now we get to bash the new OC and see if he can rescue the D...

I'm thinking Troy alone will rescue the D. A. Smith won't hurt either. ;)

Troy will... not too sure about Smith being able to put in a whole season.

Both are injury prone though... so we have to be realistic about what happens if they go down again.

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 04:43 PM
it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.

KDKA also reported a few years ago that Russ Grimm was hired as HC over Tomlin. I'll wait for the official report from the team before I start doing my happy dance! :Beer[/quote]

Damn.. I almost forgot about that.. so KDKA reports what they want and hope it sticks..

Guess I'll wait too.

ghettoscott
01-05-2010, 04:43 PM
It is... I got it from listening to Pharcyde.... ..
http://planetill.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/the-pharcyde.jpg

Great album... :Clap

Mister Pittsburgh
01-05-2010, 04:46 PM
Doesn't the new OC almost have to continue a similar offense? Starks, Kemo and Hartwig are all signed at a minimum through 2012 and they have been pass blocking for 2 years now. How much of a change can you expect and the offense still be effective?

Pappy

I posted a little above yours in this thread I do think we need to keep passing the football because our interior linemen can't runblock well at all. Hartwig isn't a good C and Stapleton & Essex are just fatbodies. Hartings and Faneca they are not.

Arians offense was too 'all or nothing'.....we need an OC with some imagination to incorporate our RB-TE-WR in a short passing attack to compliment the longer stuff. This will help our OL out so they don't have to hold their blocks forever. It will also put more of the pressure on our big money, high pick players to make plays with the football. How many times have you seen a QB throw a 5 yard completion to a WR-RB-TE against our D this season just to see one guy miss a tackle and all the sudden that 5 yard pass is a 15 yard gain?

I think in Arians offense we would bring everyone in to help block on 3rd & 5 but in the offense I envision, everyone goes out for the pass.

Ideally, we get this type of offense going while we try and either draft some better C & OG or Shipley, Foster, Urbick, Legursky emerge as good interior linemen.

Legursky intrigues me as a pulling guard for some reason. He is notoriously powerful and strong and I was reading he is freakishly fast for his size. I read he ran a 4.8 40yds. Just an idea. Put him at RG and keep Kemo at LG and have either one of them pull to lead the way.

papillon
01-05-2010, 04:53 PM
Doesn't the new OC almost have to continue a similar offense? Starks, Kemo and Hartwig are all signed at a minimum through 2012 and they have been pass blocking for 2 years now. How much of a change can you expect and the offense still be effective?

Pappy

I posted a little above yours in this thread I do think we need to keep passing the football because our interior linemen can't runblock well at all. Hartwig isn't a good C and Stapleton & Essex are just fatbodies. Hartings and Faneca they are not.

Arians offense was too 'all or nothing'.....we need an OC with some imagination to incorporate our RB-TE-WR in a short passing attack to compliment the longer stuff. This will help our OL out so they don't have to hold their blocks forever. It will also put more of the pressure on our big money, high pick players to make plays with the football. How many times have you seen a QB throw a 5 yard completion to a WR-RB-TE against our D this season just to see one guy miss a tackle and all the sudden that 5 yard pass is a 15 yard gain?

I think in Arians offense we would bring everyone in to help block on 3rd & 5 but in the offense I envision, everyone goes out for the pass.

Ideally, we get this type of offense going while we try and either draft some better C & OG or Shipley, Foster, Urbick, Legursky emerge as good interior linemen.

Legursky intrigues me as a pulling guard for some reason. He is notoriously powerful and strong and I was reading he is freakishly fast for his size. I read he ran a 4.8 40yds. Just an idea. Put him at RG and keep Kemo at LG and have either one of them pull to lead the way.

The tale of the tape will be when the new OC is hired. If they hire a Mike Martz type it will be more of the same that was just sh1tcanned. If they bring in a Ron Meyer type then it will be turtle ball again.

Chan Gailey is the perfect guy for the job in my mind. A veteran that carries some clout, loves the pass to set up the run or vice versa if necessary and very nimble during a game to make changes if necessary.

I hope they don't give someone their first OC job he will fail miserably with this veteran offense.

Pappy

phillyesq
01-05-2010, 04:53 PM
FWIW, Wexell's twitter feed say that his sources are telling him that nobody has been fired today. If the sources are legit, my guess is that the firing hasn't happened yet, but is imminent.

I like some of what Arians did. He used the bunch formation effectively, among other things. But I hated the way the FB was stripped from the offense. I also hated the empty set, the red zone woes, and so many of the other things that have been complained about. His attrocious playing against the Browns was up there with Mularkey calling all those passes in the blizzard against the Jets a few years back. The split between total yardage and points scored also shows his ineffectiveness.

I don't think that the offense needs to be completely scrapped. I think a few tweaks, including inclusion of the fullback and better situational play calling, will go a long way.

papillon
01-05-2010, 05:13 PM
FWIW, Wexell's twitter feed say that his sources are telling him that nobody has been fired today. If the sources are legit, my guess is that the firing hasn't happened yet, but is imminent.

I like some of what Arians did. He used the bunch formation effectively, among other things. But I hated the way the FB was stripped from the offense. I also hated the empty set, the red zone woes, and so many of the other things that have been complained about. His attrocious playing against the Browns was up there with Mularkey calling all those passes in the blizzard against the Jets a few years back. The split between total yardage and points scored also shows his ineffectiveness.

I don't think that the offense needs to be completely scrapped. I think a few tweaks, including inclusion of the fullback and better situational play calling, will go a long way.

There were a lot of things I hated about the offense, but I learned to live with it, since, I didn't have any control over it. The offense was really entertaining this year if you were able to get past the hatred of Arians.

It's the same with Ben, until I accepted the way he plays quarterback I hated it. Now, I love it, Ben has made Steeler football as exciting as it has ever been. If he doesn't mind getting whacked 50 times a year I sure as hell don't care. It's entertaining and fun to watch when he does his thing.

Pappy

NW Steeler
01-05-2010, 05:21 PM
I dont' care who the OC is for the Steelers Ben is not changing the way he plays the game. Maybe they'll hire Kevin Gilbride. :P

Pappy


that is not even close to being funny! Bite your tongue!!

papillon
01-05-2010, 05:24 PM
I dont' care who the OC is for the Steelers Ben is not changing the way he plays the game. Maybe they'll hire Kevin Gilbride. :P

Pappy


that is not even close to being funny! Bite your tongue!!

:moon :P

I made ya look...

Pappy

msp26505
01-05-2010, 05:26 PM
FWIW, Wexell's twitter feed say that his sources are telling him that nobody has been fired today. If the sources are legit, my guess is that the firing hasn't happened yet, but is imminent.

I like some of what Arians did. He used the bunch formation effectively, among other things. But I hated the way the FB was stripped from the offense. I also hated the empty set, the red zone woes, and so many of the other things that have been complained about. His attrocious playing against the Browns was up there with Mularkey calling all those passes in the blizzard against the Jets a few years back. The split between total yardage and points scored also shows his ineffectiveness.

I don't think that the offense needs to be completely scrapped. I think a few tweaks, including inclusion of the fullback and better situational play calling, will go a long way.

There were a lot of things I hated about the offense, but I learned to live with it, since, I didn't have any control over it. The offense was really entertaining this year if you were able to get past the hatred of Arians.

It's the same with Ben, until I accepted the way he plays quarterback I hated it. Now, I love it, Ben has made Steeler football as exciting as it has ever been. If he doesn't mind getting whacked 50 times a year I sure as hell don't care. It's entertaining and fun to watch when he does his thing.

Pappy

I mind that he has had four concussions and that his style of play will almost certainly lead to more.

I would trade a little of the excitement and big play ability for having Ben around longer. At this rate, he will be done way too early.

papillon
01-05-2010, 05:32 PM
FWIW, Wexell's twitter feed say that his sources are telling him that nobody has been fired today. If the sources are legit, my guess is that the firing hasn't happened yet, but is imminent.

I like some of what Arians did. He used the bunch formation effectively, among other things. But I hated the way the FB was stripped from the offense. I also hated the empty set, the red zone woes, and so many of the other things that have been complained about. His attrocious playing against the Browns was up there with Mularkey calling all those passes in the blizzard against the Jets a few years back. The split between total yardage and points scored also shows his ineffectiveness.

I don't think that the offense needs to be completely scrapped. I think a few tweaks, including inclusion of the fullback and better situational play calling, will go a long way.

There were a lot of things I hated about the offense, but I learned to live with it, since, I didn't have any control over it. The offense was really entertaining this year if you were able to get past the hatred of Arians.

It's the same with Ben, until I accepted the way he plays quarterback I hated it. Now, I love it, Ben has made Steeler football as exciting as it has ever been. If he doesn't mind getting whacked 50 times a year I sure as hell don't care. It's entertaining and fun to watch when he does his thing.

Pappy

I mind that he has had four concussions and that his style of play will almost certainly lead to more.

I would trade a little of the excitement and big play ability for having Ben around longer. At this rate, he will be done way too early.

I've accepted that fact as well and that's why I am trying to enjoy his career. I believe it will not last as long as Peyton Manning's.

Embrace it, support it, and enjoy it while it's here, that's my best advice. I don't see Ben changing. If Kenny Anderson, the ultimate check down, I don't want to get hit quarterback, couldn't change Ben, I doubt there is a man alive that will.

Pappy

Flasteel
01-05-2010, 06:13 PM
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SteelHead
01-05-2010, 06:17 PM
Wow. Quite the thread going here that I had to catch up on.

So BA might be gone. It shouldn't come as too much of a surprise and I can't say that I necessarily disagree with taking another direction but somehow I feel kinda worried about this whole deal. The reason, as others have mentioned is simple......Ben.

Ben is a instinctual QB at his core , that fact is undeniable. It's also obvious that he has improved the mental part of his game such as reading defenses , pre-snap and going through his progressions. Are they on a Peyton,Brady,Brees level......NO. But none of those guys can touch Ben in his specialty , sandlot football. Now do I ever expect Ben to be on their level in the areas I mentioned ? Nope. Don't see it happening. Not because he's not capable but he just doesn't want to be that type of QB. You can say it's because he doesn't work as hard as those guys in the film room , who knows might even be true. You can say he's just not as smart as those guys , might be true as well. You can say he's just a stubborn , cocky , uber confident QB who'll toe the company line between doing his due diligence in the classroom and practice field but ultimately will always fall back on his talent and confidence that he can win HIS way.

That we KNOW to be true. So all that longwindedness being said , If the FO and coaching staff bring in someone that's going to rub Ben the wrong way and try and change him to much this late in his career , it's going to spell disaster. Some will say Ben needs more direction and coaching and should just shut up , count his cash and do what's best for the team. I'm sure Ben would argue , he's done what's best for the team , win 2 Lombardi's.

Everyone may not like it but there are a different set of rules for a player like Ben. Maybe that plays into the whole "some players on the team don't like Ben" theory and maybe it plays into some of the fans criticisms of him as well.

Whatever. I certainly don't care. I'm sure Ben doesn't either.

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 06:18 PM
FWIW, Wexell's twitter feed say that his sources are telling him that nobody has been fired today. If the sources are legit, my guess is that the firing hasn't happened yet, but is imminent.

I like some of what Arians did. He used the bunch formation effectively, among other things. But I hated the way the FB was stripped from the offense. I also hated the empty set, the red zone woes, and so many of the other things that have been complained about. His attrocious playing against the Browns was up there with Mularkey calling all those passes in the blizzard against the Jets a few years back. The split between total yardage and points scored also shows his ineffectiveness.

I don't think that the offense needs to be completely scrapped. I think a few tweaks, including inclusion of the fullback and better situational play calling, will go a long way.

There were a lot of things I hated about the offense, but I learned to live with it, since, I didn't have any control over it. The offense was really entertaining this year if you were able to get past the hatred of Arians.

It's the same with Ben, until I accepted the way he plays quarterback I hated it. Now, I love it, Ben has made Steeler football as exciting as it has ever been. If he doesn't mind getting whacked 50 times a year I sure as hell don't care. It's entertaining and fun to watch when he does his thing.

Pappy

I mind that he has had four concussions and that his style of play will almost certainly lead to more.

I would trade a little of the excitement and big play ability for having Ben around longer. At this rate, he will be done way too early.

I've accepted that fact as well and that's why I am trying to enjoy his career. I believe it will not last as long as Peyton Manning's.

Embrace it, support it, and enjoy it while it's here, that's my best advice. I don't see Ben changing. If Kenny Anderson, the ultimate check down, I don't want to get hit quarterback, couldn't change Ben, I doubt there is a man alive that will.

Pappy

I took your advice with Ben a while back and games have been more enjoyable..

I also did it with the 4th qtr D this year and it was less frustrating... I knew the 4th was meltdown time and although it was ugly to watch a few games in I just rolled with it.

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 06:23 PM
Wow. Quite the thread going here that I had to catch up on.

So BA might be gone. It shouldn't come as too much of a surprise and I can't say that I necessarily disagree with taking another direction but somehow I feel kinda worried about this whole deal. The reason, as others have mentioned is simple......Ben.

Ben is a instinctual QB at his core , that fact is undeniable. It's also obvious that he has improved the mental part of his game such as reading defenses , pre-snap and going through his progressions. Are they on a Peyton,Brady,Brees level......NO. But none of those guys can touch Ben in his specialty , sandlot football. Now do I ever expect Ben to be on their level in the areas I mentioned ? Nope. Don't see it happening. Not because he's not capable but he just doesn't want to be that type of QB. You can say it's because he doesn't work as hard as those guys in the film room , who knows might even be true. You can say he's just not as smart as those guys , might be true as well. You can say he's just a stubborn , cocky , uber confident QB who'll toe the company line between doing his due diligence in the classroom and practice field but ultimately will always fall back on his talent and confidence that he can win HIS way.

That we KNOW to be true. So all that longwindedness being said , If the FO and coaching staff bring in someone that's going to rub Ben the wrong way and try and change him to much this late in his career , it's going to spell disaster. Some will say Ben needs more direction and coaching and should just shut up , count his cash and do what's best for the team. I'm sure Ben would argue , he's done what's best for the team , win 2 Lombardi's.

Everyone may not like it but there are a different set of rules for a player like Ben. Maybe that plays into the whole "some players on the team don't like Ben" theory and maybe it plays into some of the fans criticisms of him as well.

Whatever. I certainly don't care. I'm sure Ben doesn't either.

The only OC who can control Ben is Elway... and that ain't happening. I think Ben loves BA and would prefer he stay.. I also think Ben feels pretty good about this season on Offense. It cause confusion and tension but it could also present a new challenge for Ben to overcome and he seems to like challenges.

flippy
01-05-2010, 06:53 PM
It's time for Mikey to get on the horn with Chan Gailey and Bobby April.

We've gotta remember we've still got a young coach and we should be surrounding him with the best minds in the biz.

And please Rooney's, provide some guidance to Mike. I didn't like some of his previous coaching hires.

proudpittsburgher
01-05-2010, 06:57 PM
Wow. Quite the thread going here that I had to catch up on.

So BA might be gone. It shouldn't come as too much of a surprise and I can't say that I necessarily disagree with taking another direction but somehow I feel kinda worried about this whole deal. The reason, as others have mentioned is simple......Ben.

Ben is a instinctual QB at his core , that fact is undeniable. It's also obvious that he has improved the mental part of his game such as reading defenses , pre-snap and going through his progressions. Are they on a Peyton,Brady,Brees level......NO. But none of those guys can touch Ben in his specialty , sandlot football. Now do I ever expect Ben to be on their level in the areas I mentioned ? Nope. Don't see it happening. Not because he's not capable but he just doesn't want to be that type of QB. You can say it's because he doesn't work as hard as those guys in the film room , who knows might even be true. You can say he's just not as smart as those guys , might be true as well. You can say he's just a stubborn , cocky , uber confident QB who'll toe the company line between doing his due diligence in the classroom and practice field but ultimately will always fall back on his talent and confidence that he can win HIS way.

That we KNOW to be true. So all that longwindedness being said , If the FO and coaching staff bring in someone that's going to rub Ben the wrong way and try and change him to much this late in his career , it's going to spell disaster. Some will say Ben needs more direction and coaching and should just shut up , count his cash and do what's best for the team. I'm sure Ben would argue , he's done what's best for the team , win 2 Lombardi's.

Everyone may not like it but there are a different set of rules for a player like Ben. Maybe that plays into the whole "some players on the team don't like Ben" theory and maybe it plays into some of the fans criticisms of him as well.

Whatever. I certainly don't care. I'm sure Ben doesn't either.

The only OC who can control Ben is Elway... and that ain't happening. I think Ben loves BA and would prefer he stay.. I also think Ben feels pretty good about this season on Offense. It cause confusion and tension but it could also present a new challenge for Ben to overcome and he seems to like challenges.

And that's why I would rather keep BA on as OC, mostly because of Ben.

Sugar
01-05-2010, 06:57 PM
It's time for Mikey to get on the horn with Chan Gailey and Bobby April.

We've gotta remember we've still got a young coach and we should be surrounding him with the best minds in the biz.

And please Rooney's, provide some guidance to Mike. I didn't like some of his previous coaching hires.

Were they his hires or the FO's? My impression was that Tomlin wasn't given much leeway to start.

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 06:57 PM
so.... are we saying the Ken Anderson retiring is still proof he is fired or did KDKA and a few others jump the gun?

If BA isn't fired now I swear the city will burn LOL!!! It kinda feels like a few reporters are trying to force the Steelers hand. It would be really janky if they misreported this.

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 06:59 PM
It's time for Mikey to get on the horn with Chan Gailey and Bobby April.

We've gotta remember we've still got a young coach and we should be surrounding him with the best minds in the biz.

And please Rooney's, provide some guidance to Mike. I didn't like some of his previous coaching hires.

Were they his hires or the FO's? My impression was that Tomlin wasn't given much leeway to start.

I think Tomlin had it right when he said he was hired for "cheap labor"

I doubt he had the final say on anything his first year.

RuthlessBurgher
01-05-2010, 07:03 PM
so.... are we saying the Ken Anderson retiring is still proof he is fired or did KDKA and a few others jump the gun?

If BA isn't fired now I swear the city will burn LOL!!! It kinda feels like a few reporters are trying to force the Steelers hand. It would be really janky if they misreported this.

Tomlin reported the Kenny Anderson retirement news himself at his press conference today.

The Bruce Arians speculation is 100% from Ken Laird at ESPN Radio 1250 at this point. Nothing official from the team in regard to any coach's job status except for Anderson.

Mel Blount's G
01-05-2010, 07:03 PM
Wow. Quite the thread going here that I had to catch up on.

So BA might be gone. It shouldn't come as too much of a surprise and I can't say that I necessarily disagree with taking another direction but somehow I feel kinda worried about this whole deal. The reason, as others have mentioned is simple......Ben.

Ben is a instinctual QB at his core , that fact is undeniable. It's also obvious that he has improved the mental part of his game such as reading defenses , pre-snap and going through his progressions. Are they on a Peyton,Brady,Brees level......NO. But none of those guys can touch Ben in his specialty , sandlot football. Now do I ever expect Ben to be on their level in the areas I mentioned ? Nope. Don't see it happening. Not because he's not capable but he just doesn't want to be that type of QB. You can say it's because he doesn't work as hard as those guys in the film room , who knows might even be true. You can say he's just not as smart as those guys , might be true as well. You can say he's just a stubborn , cocky , uber confident QB who'll toe the company line between doing his due diligence in the classroom and practice field but ultimately will always fall back on his talent and confidence that he can win HIS way.

That we KNOW to be true. So all that longwindedness being said , If the FO and coaching staff bring in someone that's going to rub Ben the wrong way and try and change him to much this late in his career , it's going to spell disaster. Some will say Ben needs more direction and coaching and should just shut up , count his cash and do what's best for the team. I'm sure Ben would argue , he's done what's best for the team , win 2 Lombardi's.

Everyone may not like it but there are a different set of rules for a player like Ben. Maybe that plays into the whole "some players on the team don't like Ben" theory and maybe it plays into some of the fans criticisms of him as well.

Whatever. I certainly don't care. I'm sure Ben doesn't either.
Well said.

Howz about Norv Turner as OC after he craps the bed in SD and is shown the door?

RuthlessBurgher
01-05-2010, 07:10 PM
Howz about Norv Turner as OC after he craps the bed in SD and is shown the door?

Here here!

Norv + H.C. = teh suck

Norv + O.C. = rulez

Wolfhound45
01-05-2010, 08:36 PM
I dont' care who the OC is for the Steelers Ben is not changing the way he plays the game. Maybe they'll hire Kevin Gilbride. :P

Pappy

And BUDDY RYAN! Hey, they could have ANOTHER sideline skirmish! Cool!

[youtube:3ee307ov]bPK3cDl7Ftw[/youtube:3ee307ov]

stlrz d
01-05-2010, 09:50 PM
Still no official statement from the team.

Anyone think KA wanted to replace BA, found out he wouldn't be so he called it a day?

Vindrow
01-05-2010, 10:01 PM
Here's a link to an article about it:


http://www.steelernation.com/forums/con ... uce-Arians (http://www.steelernation.com/forums/content.php/109-Report-Pittsburgh-Steelers-To-Fire-Bruce-Arians)

Discipline of Steel
01-05-2010, 10:38 PM
Center Justin Hartwig said he hopes offensive coordinator Bruce Arians and offensive line coach Larry Zierlein return next season. "I think (being ranked) seventh offensively in the NFL isn't too bad," Hartwig said. The Steelers finished 7th in the NFL in total offense with 371.3 yards per game.

Picked out of a random article. BA has proven overall success. But his big problem is that our offense has no punch. Pass the ball on 3rd and short, no FB, CANT GRIND OUT THE WIN IN THE FOURTH QUARTER. People point to the greater stats we have this year; 4000 yrd QB, 1000 yd RB, 2 x 1000 yrd WR, 70 catch TE...its all hogwash. We lost to some very weak teams and didnt make the playoffs. Equivalent to Houston. I think casting the Steeler identity of intimidators to the wayside is the wrong move. Now lets go out and get us a real FB please. Its what the Steeler nation wants.

NorthCoast
01-05-2010, 10:45 PM
Both Cinci and Cleveland figured it out this year. A power running game can win you games. When our receiving TDs outnumber rushing TDs almost 3 to 1, I call it decidedly unbalanced.

Hope Ben doesn't 'pout' over this change....nothing worse than a disgruntled $100M quarterback.

Where's Mike Mularkey these days....I thought he had promise. Also didn't Buffalo just release their entire staff? ...maybe a castoff there?

Sugar
01-05-2010, 11:00 PM
I really don't care if we have a FB, a power running game, a thousand yard back or receivers.

I simply want the Offense to score at least 21 points a game and I want the Defense to allow no more than 17 points per game. Of course, I expect the Special Teams to allow 0 points per game.

Is that too hard?

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 11:06 PM
I really don't care if we have a FB, a power running game, a thousand yard back or receivers.

I simply want the Offense to score at least 21 points a game and I want the Defense to allow no more than 17 points per game. Of course, I expect the Special Teams to allow 0 points per game.

Is that too hard?
:Agree

BURGH86STEEL
01-05-2010, 11:11 PM
Tomlin: 'Appropriate changes' to follow Steelers' playoff-less season

Pretty interesting article from NFL.COM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81586d39&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

feltdizz
01-05-2010, 11:59 PM
Blaming Arians for this year's version of the Steelers failures is like blaming a knife and fork for being obese.

This certainly means that Lebeau will be let go as well. If the offense is being blamed then the defense has to have someone fall on the sword as well.

Pappy

What was the offenses excuse for being middle of the road in points scored this season despite the glorious yardage totals? Were they missing 2 pro bowlers?

Missing Troy & A. The TD's we got this year made us so excited ST's and the D couldn't contain themselves or the other team?aron Smith is comparable to losing Ben & Heath or Hines for half the season.

we weren't losing by 14 in games this year... more times then not we have been up 14 points and blew leads late.

Even if we lost Ben and Hines we would still move the ball.. If a 3rd string QB can waltz into the endzone for a 4th quater lead against Baltimore in Baltimore.. It's obvious Arians isn't the fool some say he is. We would pound the run with the back up and limit the QB's passing.

I think a real concern is without Troy our secondary is butt. It would have been nice to see a DB make one play during our skid or for us to say Lebeau dialed up a great D in just one of those 4th quarter collapses. People respect Lebeau but the 4th quarter had no Lebeau magic against the worst offenses in football.

Lebeau couldn't even fill Gays weakness with any other player all season!

Shawn
01-06-2010, 12:06 AM
It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/


Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.Ha ha ha! You said Janky. I thought that was a west coast term. :lol:

About Arians, so many threads have been written all year about how horrible BA was at calling plays. Then when he gets dumped there's people coming outta the wood works to defend him. I don't get it. He was fired for the same reasons we all hated him for and I can't wait to see the kind of offense we have next year.

Ben is an all star and can adjust to a few changes. Getting the running game back is big in my opinion.

I have never heard of janky...but I have to assume it's derivation is from jankum and that's literally some nasty ish. :lol:

Anyways, I'm very surprised and I have mixed feelings. This offense was good enough to win us another SB. Make no mistake our D beat us this year. With that said, I do not like BAs style of ball. Also, change could set us back initially. Who knows if we will be competitive next year now.

Shawn
01-06-2010, 12:07 AM
Blaming Arians for this year's version of the Steelers failures is like blaming a knife and fork for being obese.

This certainly means that Lebeau will be let go as well. If the offense is being blamed then the defense has to have someone fall on the sword as well.

Pappy

What was the offenses excuse for being middle of the road in points scored this season despite the glorious yardage totals? Were they missing 2 pro bowlers?

Missing Troy & A. The TD's we got this year made us so excited ST's and the D couldn't contain themselves or the other team?aron Smith is comparable to losing Ben & Heath or Hines for half the season.

we weren't losing by 14 in games this year... more times then not we have been up 14 points and blew leads late.

Even if we lost Ben and Hines we would still move the ball.. If a 3rd string QB can waltz into the endzone for a 4th quater lead against Baltimore in Baltimore.. It's obvious Arians isn't the fool some say he is. We would pound the run with the back up and limit the QB's passing.

I think a real concern is without Troy our secondary is butt. It would have been nice to see a DB make one play during our skid or for us to say Lebeau dialed up a great D in just one of those 4th quarter collapses. People respect Lebeau but the 4th quarter had no Lebeau magic against the worst offenses in football.

Lebeau couldn't even fill Gays weakness with any other player all season!

LeBeau is a terrific DC make no mistake. The loss of Troy exposed our very old and shallow D. This was a drafting issue.

SteelCrazy
01-06-2010, 12:38 AM
I really don't care if we have a FB, a power running game, a thousand yard back or receivers.

I simply want the Offense to score at least 21 points a game and I want the Defense to allow no more than 17 points per game. Of course, I expect the Special Teams to allow 0 points per game.

Is that too hard?

Yea, that is too hard on the defense. Putting points on the board without any time of possession is a Defense killer. That is part of the reason for the D's troubles this year.
The D couldn't rest because of the 3 n outs or the quick 6.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 12:52 AM
I really don't care if we have a FB, a power running game, a thousand yard back or receivers.

I simply want the Offense to score at least 21 points a game and I want the Defense to allow no more than 17 points per game. Of course, I expect the Special Teams to allow 0 points per game.

Is that too hard?

Yea, that is too hard on the defense. Putting points on the board without any time of possession is a Defense killer. That is part of the reason for the D's troubles this year.
The D couldn't rest because of the 3 n outs or the quick 6.
So what was the D doing for 32 minutes a game? How can you make such a stupid claim? We were fourth in TOP.. anyway you flip it our D is off the field for more time then 28 other teams. The D is tired because they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.

No excuses... they blew last year. Admit it and move on.. You use way too much energy
making excuses for the D and eventually you stop making sense tryng to cover up for it. These games will be replayed and most who make excuses for the D won't sit through the fourth.

Shawn
01-06-2010, 02:04 AM
The D is tired because they are ancient. Why are people missing this fact?

SteelCrazy
01-06-2010, 02:06 AM
Look at TOP in the 4th quarter......lol

stlrz d
01-06-2010, 10:00 AM
I really don't care if we have a FB, a power running game, a thousand yard back or receivers.

I simply want the Offense to score at least 21 points a game and I want the Defense to allow no more than 17 points per game. Of course, I expect the Special Teams to allow 0 points per game.

Is that too hard?

Yea, that is too hard on the defense. Putting points on the board without any time of possession is a Defense killer. That is part of the reason for the D's troubles this year.
The D couldn't rest because of the 3 n outs or the quick 6.
So what was the D doing for 32 minutes a game? How can you make such a stupid claim? We were fourth in TOP.. anyway you flip it our D is off the field for more time then 28 other teams. The D is tired because they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.

No excuses... they blew last year. Admit it and move on.. You use way too much energy
making excuses for the D and eventually you stop making sense tryng to cover up for it. These games will be replayed and most who make excuses for the D won't sit through the fourth.

Why is it so hard for you to get through your skull that no one is making excuses for the D?

Pointing out something that is a contributing factor is not making excuses. No one is saying the D failed ONLY because of the O.

Sheesh....

Oviedo
01-06-2010, 10:15 AM
I really don't care if we have a FB, a power running game, a thousand yard back or receivers.

I simply want the Offense to score at least 21 points a game and I want the Defense to allow no more than 17 points per game. Of course, I expect the Special Teams to allow 0 points per game.

Is that too hard?

Yea, that is too hard on the defense. Putting points on the board without any time of possession is a Defense killer. That is part of the reason for the D's troubles this year.
The D couldn't rest because of the 3 n outs or the quick 6.
So what was the D doing for 32 minutes a game? How can you make such a stupid claim? We were fourth in TOP.. anyway you flip it our D is off the field for more time then 28 other teams. The D is tired because they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.

No excuses... they blew last year. Admit it and move on.. You use way too much energy
making excuses for the D and eventually you stop making sense tryng to cover up for it. These games will be replayed and most who make excuses for the D won't sit through the fourth.

Why is it so hard for you to get through your skull that no one is making excuses for the D?

Pointing out something that is a contributing factor is not making excuses. No one is saying the D failed ONLY because of the O.

Sheesh....

The offense may have been standing by watching but it was without a doubt the offense that had the knife in their hands and stabbed to death our season multiple times.

It was 80% the defense but we continue to talk about coaching changes on the offensive side of the ball and nothing on defensive side of the ball. Our schemes failed and for all the criticism that Arians gets about not being able to make adjustements LeBeau was a miserable failure this season but he is automatically viewed as "safe" because of past success. Past success by St LeBeau did not get us any wins this past season and will not get us a single one next year with a more formidable schedule.

I think that is what some just find incredible and try to illustrate here. Everyone is all giddy about firing the coordinator whose unit was the most successful and they want the one who failed to come back and do it again.

Let there be no doubt the problems on the defense are systemic and they will not be fixed with Smith and Troy coming back. I'm not sure LeBeau is capable of thinking out of the box and going in a new direction which really concerns me.

Djfan
01-06-2010, 10:16 AM
Come on Tomlin! Pull the trigger!!

papillon
01-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Blaming Arians for this year's version of the Steelers failures is like blaming a knife and fork for being obese.

This certainly means that Lebeau will be let go as well. If the offense is being blamed then the defense has to have someone fall on the sword as well.

Pappy

What was the offenses excuse for being middle of the road in points scored this season despite the glorious yardage totals? Were they missing 2 pro bowlers?

Missing Troy & Aaron Smith is comparable to losing Ben & Heath or Hines for half the season.

Execution would get my vote and, at times, the play calling, but that doesn't mean to throw the baby out with the bath water. The offense was not perfect, but it also performed well enough in at least 5 of the games the Steelers lost for the Steelers to win the game.

Had the offense played without Ben for as long as the defense played without Troy they would have been pedestrian, but I also believe that they would have made adjustments and performed well enough to give the team a chance to win games. Roethlisberger missed one game and his replacement played well enough to win against a very good Ravens defense. MY guess is that the offense would struggle with Dixon at quarterback, but that they would perform well enough to win some games, provided the defense could stop teams in the fourth quarter.

The secondary was abysmal without Troy, it was as if someone stole their security blanket and they didn't know what to do or how to react.

To me the job of any coordinator is to simply put his unit in a position to succeed. I believe that Arians does that and has designed an offense that takes advantage of the skills and talent of the offensive players and I believe that Dick Lebeau does the same, neither man should be fired in my opinion.

Tomlin is finishing his third year and the offense took a step forward, the defense and special teams a step backward. I believe that Mike Tomlin is doing a fine job, he's learning on the job and is having some growing pains, but all in all I like him, Arians and Lebeau and believe they form a good nucleus of coaches for the Steelers.

We'll see what happens, Arians will probably be let go and I'll be fine with that as well. The next OC will have deficiencies in some other aspect of offensive football that everyone will bellyache about. He may try to turn Ben into Peyton, or run the ball too often, or fail to utilize Miller, run the spread, ignore Mendenhall, etc you get the picture.

The offense's failings were short yardage and red zone offense. I believe that Arians should be given another year to try and correct it. The rest of the offense is top 5 easily and the emergence of Mike Wallace has made this offense dangerous. Would another coordinator used Wallace? Miller? Mendenhall? even Parker looked good the last 4 games?

Pappy

Djfan
01-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Ken Laird just said that he "Stands by his sources" that BA is gone. He was on 1250. I guess he was told that BA was gone this week by someone in the front office.

I hate having to work right now. Sometimes you just want to surf the net and focus on what's important - STEELERS FOOTBALL!!

MaxAMillion
01-06-2010, 11:17 AM
The D is tired because they are ancient. Why are people missing this fact?

Excellent question, not enough is made of the fact that the Steeler defense was as old as any in the league. The idea that the offense contributed to the 4th quarter collapses is laughable when you look at the Steelers TOP for the year. Last Sunday was a pefect example. The offense had the ball most of the third quarter (mostly because the Miami QB was terrible As soon as Thigpen comes in the game, the Miami goes right down the field for touchdowns. It had nothing to do with the offense.

The depth on defense is poor for the most part. The drafting in the first round has been good. The drafting in the middle rounds has been sketchy. If you don't use free agency, you have to be successful in the middle rounds of the draft.

phillyesq
01-06-2010, 12:18 PM
Wexell has some strange reports. He says that he has heard from three sources that Arians hasn't been fired (yet). He says that one player confirmed the firing.

Then there was this very strange report:


@JoeSteelerfan You say FO leaked the rumor; you're close. Get this: I've been told Arians leaked it himself. And I hear Steelers not amused about 12 hours ago from web

I have no idea what to make of this.

Oviedo
01-06-2010, 12:28 PM
Wexell has some strange reports. He says that he has heard from three sources that Arians hasn't been fired (yet). He says that one player confirmed the firing.

Then there was this very strange report:


@JoeSteelerfan You say FO leaked the rumor; you're close. Get this: I've been told Arians leaked it himself. And I hear Steelers not amused about 12 hours ago from web

I have no idea what to make of this.

Arians jerking around the media that has pretty consistently bashed him. Eventually any normal person wants to take a shot back and if possible make the media idiots look like fools.

I don't believe that Arians is leaving.

See this is what happens when you don't make the play offs. People have too much time on their hands and get into mischief.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 12:34 PM
Wexell has some strange reports. He says that he has heard from three sources that Arians hasn't been fired (yet). He says that one player confirmed the firing.

Then there was this very strange report:


@JoeSteelerfan You say FO leaked the rumor; you're close. Get this: I've been told Arians leaked it himself. And I hear Steelers not amused about 12 hours ago from web

I have no idea what to make of this.

Wouldn't blaming Arians for being the source be a prime example of "Everybody Hates Arians?"

Not only does he lose games in the 4th after getting the lead... he also created fake sources in his spare time.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 12:41 PM
I really don't care if we have a FB, a power running game, a thousand yard back or receivers.

I simply want the Offense to score at least 21 points a game and I want the Defense to allow no more than 17 points per game. Of course, I expect the Special Teams to allow 0 points per game.

Is that too hard?

Yea, that is too hard on the defense. Putting points on the board without any time of possession is a Defense killer. That is part of the reason for the D's troubles this year.
The D couldn't rest because of the 3 n outs or the quick 6.
So what was the D doing for 32 minutes a game? How can you make such a stupid claim? We were fourth in TOP.. anyway you flip it our D is off the field for more time then 28 other teams. The D is tired because they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.

No excuses... they blew last year. Admit it and move on.. You use way too much energy
making excuses for the D and eventually you stop making sense tryng to cover up for it. These games will be replayed and most who make excuses for the D won't sit through the fourth.

Why is it so hard for you to get through your skull that no one is making excuses for the D?

Pointing out something that is a contributing factor is not making excuses. No one is saying the D failed ONLY because of the O.

Sheesh....

3 PHASES OF FOOTBALL:

Offense
Defense
Special Teams

please rate best to worst this season, 1 being the best.

Thanks for playing!

SteelAbility
01-06-2010, 12:49 PM
When is SOMEONE going to get this through their thick skull?

The D was saddled with
a. The loss of Troy (a DPOY candidate in 08 - a MAJOR downgrade)
b. The loss of Aaron Smith (arguably a top 5 run stuffer - MAJOR downgrade)
c. The replacement of McFadden with William Gay (another MAJOR downgrade)


The O on the other hand
a. Replaced Parker with Mendy (an upgrade)
b. Gained Mike Wallace (a MAJOR upgrade and made us 3-deep at WR)

This is NOT apples and oranges. OK???

cruzer8
01-06-2010, 12:56 PM
When is SOMEONE going to get this through their thick skull?

The D was saddled with
a. The loss of Troy (a DPOY candidate in 08 - a MAJOR downgrade)
b. The loss of Aaron Smith (arguably a top 5 run stuffer - MAJOR downgrade)
c. The replacement of McFadden with William Gay (another MAJOR downgrade)


The O on the other hand
a. Replaced Parker with Mendy (an upgrade)
b. Gained Mike Wallace (a MAJOR upgrade and made us 3-deep at WR)

This is NOT apples and oranges. OK???

Great point!

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 01:05 PM
When is SOMEONE going to get this through their thick skull?

The D was saddled with
a. The loss of Troy (a DPOY candidate in 08 - a MAJOR downgrade)
b. The loss of Aaron Smith (arguably a top 5 run stuffer - MAJOR downgrade)
c. The replacement of McFadden with William Gay (another MAJOR downgrade)


The O on the other hand
a. Replaced Parker with Mendy (an upgrade)
b. Gained Mike Wallace (a MAJOR upgrade and made us 3-deep at WR)

This is NOT apples and oranges. OK???

The D was saddled with
a. Troy has been lost before... we survived. I don't expect amazing, but I expect a ball being deflected or a player being on the screen when the WR catches or drops a wide open pass....

b. Smith was lost before.. the run suffered some, but Hood and Eason were nice in his absence. I don't think losing Smith was as big a deal. The DL was good this year IMO.

c.we knew McFadden wasn't returning, Gay was bad... but we had no other player step up and do something or challenge Gay... and I hear McFadden was getting torched too in AZ..

The O on the other hand
a. I love Mend.. why should I feel bad we have him?
b. Arians could have stuck with Sweed like Lebeau stuck with Gay.... what is so hard about realizing Lebeau had other options and never used them? How much worse could any young kid be over Gay?

in closing.... I think the last point about Gay says it all... we can lose, Ben, Hines and Heath and we have players who can all step in and resemble football players.

However when we lose Troy we lose the whole Defensive backfield. That isn't good coaching to me.. Our other DB's should be able to do what they did in the Miami game a few times a year against the worst offenses in football. Our young DB's should be able to play basic zone defense, or maybe Lebeau needs to simplify when Troy goes out.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 01:11 PM
When is SOMEONE going to get this through their thick skull?

The D was saddled with
a. The loss of Troy (a DPOY candidate in 08 - a MAJOR downgrade)
b. The loss of Aaron Smith (arguably a top 5 run stuffer - MAJOR downgrade)
c. The replacement of McFadden with William Gay (another MAJOR downgrade)


The O on the other hand
a. Replaced Parker with Mendy (an upgrade)
b. Gained Mike Wallace (a MAJOR upgrade and made us 3-deep at WR)

This is NOT apples and oranges. OK???

Great point!

want some cheese with that whine?
The D is saddled with.. boo effing hoo.. it's football, adjust.

The O got presents in Mend and Wallace..
No one is saying BA got the most out of 2 rookies and put them in positions to succeed?

Do you hear yourselves? you sound like you hate our good players on O!!!!
You should be happy our OC has Mend as the 3rd down back in his first full year and Wallace is a beast. He would still be on the bench if he was on D!!

SteelAbility
01-06-2010, 01:51 PM
When is SOMEONE going to get this through their thick skull?

The D was saddled with
a. The loss of Troy (a DPOY candidate in 08 - a MAJOR downgrade)
b. The loss of Aaron Smith (arguably a top 5 run stuffer - MAJOR downgrade)
c. The replacement of McFadden with William Gay (another MAJOR downgrade)


The O on the other hand
a. Replaced Parker with Mendy (an upgrade)
b. Gained Mike Wallace (a MAJOR upgrade and made us 3-deep at WR)

This is NOT apples and oranges. OK???

Great point!

want some cheese with that whine?
The D is saddled with.. boo effing hoo.. it's football, adjust.

The O got presents in Mend and Wallace..
No one is saying BA got the most out of 2 rookies and put them in positions to succeed?

Do you hear yourselves? you sound like you hate our good players on O!!!!
You should be happy our OC has Mend as the 3rd down back in his first full year and Wallace is a beast. He would still be on the bench if he was on D!!

Geez are you hearing yourself? How do you get that we hate our good players on O. We are hating BA because the O is producing well below potential in terms of points scored. We believe this is due to predictable RZ offensive play-calling. Some people are enamored of yards gained and the first ever Steeler QB with 4K yards. Personally, I'm enamored of putting points on the board.

"It's football. Adjust." Ok, let's trade in Troy for a high-school quality player. After all, it's football and it's all about adjustments, not quality of players. :roll:

That's like criticizing someone who loses a fight with one hand tied to their side. "Well, it's fighting. You should have adjusted." :roll:

phillyesq
01-06-2010, 02:21 PM
When is SOMEONE going to get this through their thick skull?

The D was saddled with
a. The loss of Troy (a DPOY candidate in 08 - a MAJOR downgrade)
b. The loss of Aaron Smith (arguably a top 5 run stuffer - MAJOR downgrade)
c. The replacement of McFadden with William Gay (another MAJOR downgrade)


The O on the other hand
a. Replaced Parker with Mendy (an upgrade)
b. Gained Mike Wallace (a MAJOR upgrade and made us 3-deep at WR)

This is NOT apples and oranges. OK???

The D was saddled with
a. Troy has been lost before... we survived. I don't expect amazing, but I expect a ball being deflected or a player being on the screen when the WR catches or drops a wide open pass....

b. Smith was lost before.. the run suffered some, but Hood and Eason were nice in his absence. I don't think losing Smith was as big a deal. The DL was good this year IMO.

c.we knew McFadden wasn't returning, Gay was bad... but we had no other player step up and do something or challenge Gay... and I hear McFadden was getting torched too in AZ..

The O on the other hand
a. I love Mend.. why should I feel bad we have him?
b. Arians could have stuck with Sweed like Lebeau stuck with Gay.... what is so hard about realizing Lebeau had other options and never used them? How much worse could any young kid be over Gay?

in closing.... I think the last point about Gay says it all... we can lose, Ben, Hines and Heath and we have players who can all step in and resemble football players.

However when we lose Troy we lose the whole Defensive backfield. That isn't good coaching to me.. Our other DB's should be able to do what they did in the Miami game a few times a year against the worst offenses in football. Our young DB's should be able to play basic zone defense, or maybe Lebeau needs to simplify when Troy goes out.

I think the failure of the DBs is lies more with the FO than it does with the Dick Lebeau. It isn't his fault that he didn't have any cover safeties on the roster, nor is it his fault that the corners couldn't cover anybody.

Oviedo
01-06-2010, 02:22 PM
When is SOMEONE going to get this through their thick skull?

The D was saddled with
a. The loss of Troy (a DPOY candidate in 08 - a MAJOR downgrade)
b. The loss of Aaron Smith (arguably a top 5 run stuffer - MAJOR downgrade)
c. The replacement of McFadden with William Gay (another MAJOR downgrade)


The O on the other hand
a. Replaced Parker with Mendy (an upgrade)
b. Gained Mike Wallace (a MAJOR upgrade and made us 3-deep at WR)

This is NOT apples and oranges. OK???

Great point!

want some cheese with that whine?
The D is saddled with.. boo effing hoo.. it's football, adjust.

The O got presents in Mend and Wallace..
No one is saying BA got the most out of 2 rookies and put them in positions to succeed?

Do you hear yourselves? you sound like you hate our good players on O!!!!
You should be happy our OC has Mend as the 3rd down back in his first full year and Wallace is a beast. He would still be on the bench if he was on D!!

Geez are you hearing yourself? How do you get that we hate our good players on O. We are hating BA because the O is producing well below potential in terms of points scored. We believe this is due to predictable RZ offensive play-calling. Some people are enamored of yards gained and the first ever Steeler QB with 4K yards. Personally, I'm enamored of putting points on the board.

"It's football. Adjust." Ok, let's trade in Troy for a high-school quality player. After all, it's football and it's all about adjustments, not quality of players. :roll:

That's like criticizing someone who loses a fight with one hand tied to their side. "Well, it's fighting. You should have adjusted." :roll:

Just need to know why you aren't hating St LeBeau for the same reasons. Examples:

Hate BA because: "the O is producing well below potential in terms of points scored"

Don't hate DL for the defense getting shredded by mediocre QBs like Velveeta chese. That is well below potential too.

Hate BA because: "We believe this is due to predictable RZ offensive play-calling."

Don't hate DL for having total predictable prevent defnse in 4th quarter and very predictable blitz packages by Harrison and Woodley that pretty much every fan who watches every game could see coming 80% of the time before every snap.

Hate BA because "That's like criticizing someone who loses a fight with one hand tied to their side. "Well, it's fighting. You should have adjusted." "

Did anyone see a single adjustment this season to our secondary? Did St LeBeau do away with the 10 yard CB cushion? Did St LeBeau adjust to holding agaiunst Harrison being totally ignored?

Just a few things to think about. Equal opportunity critical assessment shouldbe part of this discussion. Especially since we will go into next season running exactly the same scheme on defense that led to 4th quarter collapses this season. Do you really think the old dog will learn new tricks. He loves "his" defense and he ain't going to call his baby ugly.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 02:34 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

I thought an onside kick with a 2 point lead was the open letter to the team and fans about our D.

Steeler fans usually bash the QB and with Ben they won't do it so I think they look at BA as a good punching bag...

you would swear we trailed in 14 games this year.. when we were usually up 7 to 10 points in most games.

Sugar
01-06-2010, 02:40 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

I thought an onside kick with a 2 point lead was the open letter to the team and fans about our D.

Steeler fans usually bash the QB and with Ben they won't do it so I think they look at BA as a good punching bag...

you would swear we trailed in 14 games this year.. when we were usually up 7 to 10 points in most games.

That's 7-10 points in the 4th quarter too.

There is really no excuse for losing any game where we have a 10 point lead in the 4th. I don't care if the opposing offense gets the whole quarter, it's just not acceptable, IMO.

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem like they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

flippy
01-06-2010, 02:57 PM
The whole team has sucked for several years now. Ben and Troy have been amazing and covered many flaws for some time.

For 2 years straight this is a team that wins or loses at the end of almost every game.

It's even harder to win like this without 2 of your best 3 players out.

But it's still not an excuse, backups must play to the same level as the guys they replace. We need better backups. And these better backups need to become starters.

And if Lebeau is so smart, why can't he come up with a system that allows younger players to contribute faster. F this complicated system. We need to figure out how to make young guys successful faster and that should be a priority for the defense. It's time for Mike T to take some more control on that side of the ball.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 02:58 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

I thought an onside kick with a 2 point lead was the open letter to the team and fans about our D.

Steeler fans usually bash the QB and with Ben they won't do it so I think they look at BA as a good punching bag...

you would swear we trailed in 14 games this year.. when we were usually up 7 to 10 points in most games.

That's 7-10 points in the 4th quarter too.

There is really no excuse for losing any game where we have a 10 point lead in the 4th. I don't care if the opposing offense gets the whole quarter, it's just not acceptable, IMO.

people are talking about 10 point leads like we usually beat teams by 25...

we never beat teams by 20 points.. why should we now if our D is worse then it usually is? How does a D lose the 2 best players, people use that as the reason the D suffered... and then expect our O to score even more points????

it's twilight zone out here...

RuthlessBurgher
01-06-2010, 03:00 PM
The whole team has sucked for several years now.

:wft Who are you...and what have you done with our Flippy?

Oviedo
01-06-2010, 03:00 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem liek they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

You are correct, but there is a general unwillingness to discuss the possibility that LeBeau's time has passed while continuing to rehash the same complaints about Arians we have heard over and over and over.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 03:05 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem liek they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

You are correct, but there is a general unwillingness to discuss the possibility that LeBeau's time has passed while continuing to rehash the same complaints about Arians we have heard over and over and over.

and they say BA refuses to adjust? LOL!! Great post Mafia... too bad most of the board will just point at Offense and bash on...

Someone made a great point though... every team has a ton of fans bashing their OC's...
yet we watch our D get torched and think it's due to the other OC's genius..

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 03:07 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem liek they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

You are correct, but there is a general unwillingness to discuss the possibility that LeBeau's time has passed while continuing to rehash the same complaints about Arians we have heard over and over and over.

Our D was strong last year because of LeBeau and because our players were healthy. They will be back to being dominant under Lebeau again.

Our O was only good inspite of Arians not becasue of him. You take away Bens backyard ability and creativity when plays break down and we end up a sub .500 football team this year. The O made it appear like they could score at will in the first half of games, but then would let off the gas in the second half unless there was something at stake. Usually by then we were out of time.

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 03:14 PM
I will spead the blame around, but I don't like Arians brand of football. (as I have made well known around here)

Lebeau will be back. He has shown the ability to do so before.

Arians is stubborn ans refuses to change his style to meet the teams needs. That is why he should go. That and he is coddling our $100 mil QB. Ben needs to learn how to be more of a professional, get his butt in the film room, and study. I think it is time for us to take the t!tty out of his mouth, and that t!tty goes by the name Bruce Arians.

Tough Love Baby, Tough Love!

msp26505
01-06-2010, 03:17 PM
I think it is time for us to take the t!tty out of his mouth, and that t!tty goes by the name Bruce Arians.

Yuck. :shock: Who wants to suck on a t!tty named Bruce Arians?

RuthlessBurgher
01-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem liek they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

You are correct, but there is a general unwillingness to discuss the possibility that LeBeau's time has passed while continuing to rehash the same complaints about Arians we have heard over and over and over.

LeBeau's defense had one bad year following countless excellent seasons...and this one poor year happened to coincide with losing the best safety on the planet and the best 3-4 DE on the planet for 11 games each (plus adapting to a new starting CB who played much poorer as a starter than as a nickel CB and a new starting ILB who has an entirely different style than the ILB who started there for the past several seasons and the sudden drop in performance from the other aging ILB).

That is why there are not rampant "Fire LeBeau!" threads. We have seen what he has been able to do on a consistent basis, and aren't willing to put him out to pasture at the first sign of not living up to his own lofty expectations. The majority of people here are not excusing the defense's performance this year and stating that the offense is the major problem. We are acknowledging, as Mafia said, that is is a combination of all three units that cost the team this season.

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 03:20 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem liek they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

You are correct, but there is a general unwillingness to discuss the possibility that LeBeau's time has passed while continuing to rehash the same complaints about Arians we have heard over and over and over.

LeBeau's defense had one bad year following countless excellent seasons...and this one poor year happened to coincide with losing the best safety on the planet and the best 3-4 DE on the planet for 11 games each (plus adapting to a new starting CB who played much poorer as a starter than as a nickel CB and a new starting ILB who has an entirely different style than the ILB who started there for the past several seasons and the sudden drop in performance from the other aging ILB).

That is why there are not rampant "Fire LeBeau!" threads. We have seen what he has been able to do on a consistent basis, and aren't willing to put him out to pasture at the first sign of not living up to his own lofty expectations. The majority of people here are not excusing the defense's performance this year and stating that the offense is the major problem. We are acknowledging, as Mafia said, that is is a combination of all three units that cost the team this season.

:Bow
Stated very eloquently! (Especiall the part were you mentioned me :lol: )

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 03:29 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem liek they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

You are correct, but there is a general unwillingness to discuss the possibility that LeBeau's time has passed while continuing to rehash the same complaints about Arians we have heard over and over and over.

LeBeau's defense had one bad year following countless excellent seasons...and this one poor year happened to coincide with losing the best safety on the planet and the best 3-4 DE on the planet for 11 games each (plus adapting to a new starting CB who played much poorer as a starter than as a nickel CB and a new starting ILB who has an entirely different style than the ILB who started there for the past several seasons and the sudden drop in performance from the other aging ILB).

That is why there are not rampant "Fire LeBeau!" threads. We have seen what he has been able to do on a consistent basis, and aren't willing to put him out to pasture at the first sign of not living up to his own lofty expectations. The majority of people here are not excusing the defense's performance this year and stating that the offense is the major problem. We are acknowledging, as Mafia said, that is is a combination of all three units that cost the team this season.

there are threads about fixing the D... is Lebeau too old? Can he fix it? 4-3?
but their definitely isn't a passion to fire Lebeau and rightfully so...

However using the Offense as a scapegoat for this bad year is lame... most people ARE BLAMING the O for the D's failures..

I think the other worry is without Troy why is the drop off in the secondary so huge? There should be a drop off but we fell to our knee's this year. If our D lays down without Troy then Lebeau will have another long year due to depending on one player to do 4 guys jobs.

Oviedo
01-06-2010, 03:38 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem liek they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

You are correct, but there is a general unwillingness to discuss the possibility that LeBeau's time has passed while continuing to rehash the same complaints about Arians we have heard over and over and over.

LeBeau's defense had one bad year following countless excellent seasons...and this one poor year happened to coincide with losing the best safety on the planet and the best 3-4 DE on the planet for 11 games each (plus adapting to a new starting CB who played much poorer as a starter than as a nickel CB and a new starting ILB who has an entirely different style than the ILB who started there for the past several seasons and the sudden drop in performance from the other aging ILB).

That is why there are not rampant "Fire LeBeau!" threads. We have seen what he has been able to do on a consistent basis, and aren't willing to put him out to pasture at the first sign of not living up to his own lofty expectations. The majority of people here are not excusing the defense's performance this year and stating that the offense is the major problem. We are acknowledging, as Mafia said, that is is a combination of all three units that cost the team this season.

there are threads about fixing the D... is Lebeau too old? Can he fix it? 4-3?
but their definitely isn't a passion to fire Lebeau and rightfully so...

However using the Offense as a scapegoat for this bad year is lame... most people ARE BLAMING the O for the D's failures..

I think the other worry is without Troy why is the drop off in the secondary so huge? There should be a drop off but we fell to our knee's this year. If our D lays down without Troy then Lebeau will have another long year due to depending on one player to do 4 guys jobs.

Does anyone think with his style of play that Troy won't miss games in future seasons. What will LeBeau adjust to prevent collapse? Based on this season he appears to have no answers.

If he designs his offense to be totally dependent on one player is that really what we want?

Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

steelblood
01-06-2010, 03:39 PM
Thanks Oviedo.. It's nice to see some fans use commons sense when looking back at this season.

Common Sense has long been lost on this board, let alone this particular thread this season.

The D failed because of:
1- Injuries
2- Lack of depth in secondary
3- No one "making plays" in the absence of our playmakers.
4- No INTs from our DBs until week 17
5- Unable to hold a lead in 4th quarter
6- Poor tackling
7- Not able to get off the field after 3rd down
8- Players taking bad angles
9- Not playing as a team


The O failed because of:
1- No Red Zone production
2- Not being able to run when we needed to (Basically no run game what-so-ever)
3- Poor Protection (But better than last year..how could it really get any worse?)
4- No creativity or mix in playcalling
5- Empty sets in "Situational Football"
6- Leaving too many points on the field
7- Poor 3rd down conversion percentage
8- Short yardage ability or lack thereof
9- What seemed like players too worried about stats rather than winning
10- 4th quarter TOP
11- Always going for the Home Run ball rather than taking what is given.

The ST failed becasue:
1- Our ST players suck and seem liek they don't take their job seriously.
2- Poor tackling

If anyone else would like to add to these lists...feel free.

However, it isn't one area that cost this team this season. It is the combination of all three.

You are correct, but there is a general unwillingness to discuss the possibility that LeBeau's time has passed while continuing to rehash the same complaints about Arians we have heard over and over and over.

LeBeau's defense had one bad year following countless excellent seasons...and this one poor year happened to coincide with losing the best safety on the planet and the best 3-4 DE on the planet for 11 games each (plus adapting to a new starting CB who played much poorer as a starter than as a nickel CB and a new starting ILB who has an entirely different style than the ILB who started there for the past several seasons and the sudden drop in performance from the other aging ILB).

That is why there are not rampant "Fire LeBeau!" threads. We have seen what he has been able to do on a consistent basis, and aren't willing to put him out to pasture at the first sign of not living up to his own lofty expectations. The majority of people here are not excusing the defense's performance this year and stating that the offense is the major problem. We are acknowledging, as Mafia said, that is is a combination of all three units that cost the team this season.

I agree with most of this. But, Gay was not a Nickel corner last season. He shared time with McFadden as a starting exterior corner. Deshea was the nickel guy last year and most of this year. Gay started a few games last year when McFadden was out and saw plenty of snaps at the position he played this season. Calling him a new starter is a little misleading.

RuthlessBurgher
01-06-2010, 03:45 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 03:46 PM
Does anyone think with his style of play that Troy won't miss games in future seasons. What will LeBeau adjust to prevent collapse? Based on this season he appears to have no answers.

If he designs his offense to be totally dependent on one player is that really what we want?

Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

Bingo.. Troy usually misses a game or 2 a year but our D never went out the window until last year.

I'm not saying he needs to go... but I think a coach who slides is more of a concern than a coach who has improved.

It's like saying Farrior should stay because he was great 2 years ago or Deshea for that matter. I know it's different with coaching but it seems pretty obvious Lebeau has Troy hiding glaring weaknesses. This will continue if we don't adjust.

feltdizz
01-06-2010, 03:48 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

History matters but so does personnel.. unless we get better DB's Lebeau is going to have to make some moves on D... Unless we are willing to wait 3 years to get better DB's.

Oviedo
01-06-2010, 03:52 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

But you want to can Arians after three seasons when the offense has clearly evolved and gotten better because you continue to see anomolies. Shouldn't the same attitude be accepted by you in this matter or do you just not like Arians grey goatee?

You clearly show my point that we say one thing about the offense and make excuses and say something else about the defense.

My point has been with all his greatness, genius mind, siathood, etc. why wasn't LeBeau able to make an adjustment this season? What do you think he will do in the off season to fix the problem given that he doesn't seem willing to change the same scheme he has run since he got here?

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 03:58 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

But you want to can Arians after three seasons when the offense has clearly evolved and gotten better because you continue to see anomolies. Shouldn't the same attitude be accepted by you in this matter or do you just not like Arians grey goatee?

You clearly show my point that we say one thing about the offense and make excuses and say something else about the defense.

My point has been with all his greatness, genius mind, siathood, etc. why wasn't LeBeau able to make an adjustment this season? What do you think he will do in the off season to fix the problem given that he doesn't seem willing to change the same scheme he has run since he got here?

How can you say that the offense evolved and gotten better? If anything, only the passing game, between the 20s, got better. The other areas took multiple steps backwards, IMHO.

I mean, why do you love him so? Is it the grey goatee?

SteelAbility
01-06-2010, 04:02 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

But you want to can Arians after three seasons when the offense has clearly evolved and gotten better because you continue to see anomolies. Shouldn't the same attitude be accepted by you in this matter or do you just not like Arians grey goatee?

You clearly show my point that we say one thing about the offense and make excuses and say something else about the defense.

My point has been with all his greatness, genius mind, siathood, etc. why wasn't LeBeau able to make an adjustment this season? What do you think he will do in the off season to fix the problem given that he doesn't seem willing to change the same scheme he has run since he got here?

I see more systematic stubbornness than I see anomaly.

Lebeau lost the Sugar (Troy) and the whole Milk (A. Smith). He was handed Splenda (Ty Carter) and some powdered milk (Kirschke). His eggs (McFadden) were also replaced by egg-beaters (William Gay). You simply cannot make a delicious batter with inferior ingredients, no matter how you contort the ratios or what mixing scheme you implement.

Or the other analogy is that the Orchestra lost its world-class violinist and its experienced conductor. The orchestra just ain't what it used to be.

Or ... the Rumplestilskin analogy ... straw/gold, etc.

BURGH86STEEL
01-06-2010, 04:03 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

But you want to can Arians after three seasons when the offense has clearly evolved and gotten better because you continue to see anomolies. Shouldn't the same attitude be accepted by you in this matter or do you just not like Arians grey goatee?

You clearly show my point that we say one thing about the offense and make excuses and say something else about the defense.

My point has been with all his greatness, genius mind, siathood, etc. why wasn't LeBeau able to make an adjustment this season? What do you think he will do in the off season to fix the problem given that he doesn't seem willing to change the same scheme he has run since he got here?

How can you say that the offense evolved and gotten better? If anything, only the passing game, between the 20s, got better. The other areas took multiple steps backwards, IMHO.

I mean, why do you love him so? Is it the grey goatee?

Did you watch the offense last season? Not much anyone can tell you if you did not see the differences between the offense last season and this season.

They also improved in several statistical categories over last season. The defense probably made the biggest drop of all the units on the team. They will struggle to win in the future if the defense continues in a downward trend.

Oviedo
01-06-2010, 04:07 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

But you want to can Arians after three seasons when the offense has clearly evolved and gotten better because you continue to see anomolies. Shouldn't the same attitude be accepted by you in this matter or do you just not like Arians grey goatee?

You clearly show my point that we say one thing about the offense and make excuses and say something else about the defense.

My point has been with all his greatness, genius mind, siathood, etc. why wasn't LeBeau able to make an adjustment this season? What do you think he will do in the off season to fix the problem given that he doesn't seem willing to change the same scheme he has run since he got here?

How can you say that the offense evolved and gotten better? If anything, only the passing game, between the 20s, got better. The other areas took multiple steps backwards, IMHO.

I mean, why do you love him so? Is it the grey goatee?

I really don't care who the OC is because I know that it won't matter because he will be criticized just like Arians. Yes, the offense has gotten better. Can it get even better...yes it can but I don't buy just bringing in a fresh punching bag for the fan geniuses guarantees that happens.

Again, why do we ignore the problem on the defense and the guy with the primary responsibility to make it work. He who failed this season to do that.

Using your words


Arians is stubborn ans refuses to change his style to meet the teams needs. That is why he should go

Why isn't it about LeBeau being stubborn and refusing to change "his" style to meet teams need. We act like we should never consider changing anything LeBeau has his fingerprints on. I just ask why?

steelsnis
01-06-2010, 04:10 PM
I don't get how people can't see that a more run-oriented offense will help this team. Think of the days of Cowher Power and how successful this team was. Main strength was holding onto leads at the end of games. What was their achilles heel? Scoring from behind.

Now, take this group of offensive talent, give me back a solid, grind it out running game, BUT also give me 3 top flight receivers, plus a great TE, and that my friends is a recipe for a championship team.

The one element that Cowher's teams didn't have was a star QB. And what happened when he finally got one? Super Bowl XL.

It shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Power running game + explosive passing game = championship caliber offense. We have both of them at our disposal, now we just need the right minds in place to make it happen.

Steeler Mafia
01-06-2010, 04:18 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

But you want to can Arians after three seasons when the offense has clearly evolved and gotten better because you continue to see anomolies. Shouldn't the same attitude be accepted by you in this matter or do you just not like Arians grey goatee?

You clearly show my point that we say one thing about the offense and make excuses and say something else about the defense.

My point has been with all his greatness, genius mind, siathood, etc. why wasn't LeBeau able to make an adjustment this season? What do you think he will do in the off season to fix the problem given that he doesn't seem willing to change the same scheme he has run since he got here?

How can you say that the offense evolved and gotten better? If anything, only the passing game, between the 20s, got better. The other areas took multiple steps backwards, IMHO.

I mean, why do you love him so? Is it the grey goatee?

I really don't care who the OC is because I know that it won't matter because he will be criticized just like Arians. Yes, the offense has gotten better. Can it get even better...yes it can but I don't buy just bringing in a fresh punching bag for the fan geniuses guarantees that happens.

Again, why do we ignore the problem on the defense and the guy with the primary responsibility to make it work. He who failed this season to do that.

Using your words


Arians is stubborn ans refuses to change his style to meet the teams needs. That is why he should go

Why isn't it about LeBeau being stubborn and refusing to change "his" style to meet teams need. We act like we should never consider changing anything LeBeau has his fingerprints on. I just ask why?

Lebeau didn't have his full arsenal at his disposal. There is only so much you can do with players that have a limited ability. Is that his fault? Why do you hate him so? Is it his small stature and wrinkled face? This is the same guy that everyone was prasing last year. The same man whose D carried this team all season to the promised land.

Arians did have his full arsenal of offensive weapons. He still couldn't manage a better red zone percentage, 3rd down percentage, and left way too many points on the field settling for field goals. That is unacceptable and why he must be shown the door. Like I said before, he ihas coddled and spoilied our $100 mil QB.

SteelAbility
01-06-2010, 04:20 PM
Quite frankly I could care less what LeBeau has done in the past. That doesn't earn us a single victory next season and didn't get us one this past season either. Everything gets stale over time and no matter how good things are a fresh perspective is needed eventually. I just continue to throw out the notion, immediately dismmised by most, that we may have reached that point in time.

When Cowher followed up 6 playoff seasons with 3 non-playoff seasons, were you saying that you didn't care what he did in the past and that everything gets stale and a fresh perspective is needed?

In that case, the Rooneys stood by him when times were tough because of his past record, and it paid off for them in the future. And that was three sub-par seasons in a row, not just one. History matters.

But you want to can Arians after three seasons when the offense has clearly evolved and gotten better because you continue to see anomolies. Shouldn't the same attitude be accepted by you in this matter or do you just not like Arians grey goatee?

You clearly show my point that we say one thing about the offense and make excuses and say something else about the defense.

My point has been with all his greatness, genius mind, siathood, etc. why wasn't LeBeau able to make an adjustment this season? What do you think he will do in the off season to fix the problem given that he doesn't seem willing to change the same scheme he has run since he got here?

How can you say that the offense evolved and gotten better? If anything, only the passing game, between the 20s, got better. The other areas took multiple steps backwards, IMHO.

I mean, why do you love him so? Is it the grey goatee?

Did you watch the offense last season? Not much anyone can tell you if you did not see the differences between the offense last season and this season.

They also improved in several statistical categories over last season. The defense probably made the biggest drop of all the units on the team. They will struggle to win in the future if the defense continues in a downward trend.

Here's the difference in the D. A. Smith is not in there. So, the run-stuffing just isn't there (last year our D gave up 3.3 YPC, this year they were at 3.9 YPC ... that's a very significant 18% difference). Now that the run-stuffing has been compromised, the pass is not nearly as predictable. Add to that the slow-footed Ty Carter replacing the Tazmanian Devil Troy Polamalu.

Direct consequence example. 3rd and 8. The receiver catches the ball 3 yards short of the first down. Carter who is 0.2 seconds slower to the spot than Troy misses the tackle. The runner goes for another 8-10 yards. 1st and 10. Fresh set of downs. D tires out. The opposing O maintains rhythm. Our O stays off the field. The end result is either a score or inferior field position for our O.

Insert Troy. Makes the tackle right near the spot of the catch. 4th and 2. The other team has to punt. Our O gets better field position and another opportunity to build rhythm and wear out the opposing D. Scoring is prevented.

Now apply that scenario 3-4 times per game and what you have is a D that is not only fresher in the 4thQ (did anyone notice our 4thQ problems this year?) but the team has a 17 point lead instead of a 7 point lead.