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View Full Version : Offense didn't do D any favors



MicroBioSteel
01-03-2010, 10:28 PM
Just watching the Jets put together a 21 play drive (15 run /5 pass/ 1fg) eating up 11 minutes.

Got me thinking about how many times we had scoring drives of 4 minutes or less this year. Our D was struggling and our offensive strategy was not adjusted to help them out. In our super bowl run the D helped out / bailed out the offense by putting up points or putting them in scoring position. However this year the offense consistently scored quickly or had short drives putting the D in bad position especially after they just got off the field.

It's not just scoring but how you score that matters. We will win a lot more games if we avoid track meets and are more methodical in our drives.

This is why I believe Ariens must go or adapt his offensive strategy. We need to be able to pass out of running formations and run out of passing formations meaning.....scrap the Damn 5 wide sets!

BURGH86STEEL
01-03-2010, 10:41 PM
Just watching the Jets put together a 21 play drive (15 run /5 pass/ 1fg) eating up 11 minutes.

Got me thinking about how many times we had scoring drives of 4 minutes or less this year. Our D was struggling and our offensive strategy was not adjusted to help them out. In our super bowl run the D helped out / bailed out the offense by putting up points or putting them in scoring position. However this year the offense consistently scored quickly or had short drives putting the D in bad position especially after they just got off the field.

It's not just scoring but how you score that matters. We will win a lot more games if we avoid track meets and are more methodical in our drives.

This is why I believe Ariens must go or adapt his offensive strategy. We need to be able to pass out of running formations and run out of passing formations meaning.....scrap the Damn 5 wide sets!

The Jets run the ball as much as they do because they don't have a QB. They also have a much better run blocking unit then the Steelers. It will be interesting to see how their philosophy changes as Sanchez gains experience.

The offense scored a multitude of ways this season. They had drives where the ate clock. A lot of the problems occurred when they got into the red zone. It is an area they can work to improve heading into next season.

Fans act like it is easy to score in the NFL. It is harder to sustain long drives then it is to score quickly. The bottom line is teams will take scores at any time and any way. In an ideal world, everything will go as planned. The Steelers can get a 21 point lead and run all over teams. Unfortunatly, that is not going to happen on a weekly basis. It takes different ways to win every week.

Lets stop making it seem like the offense is a problem for scoring to quickly. The bottom line is the defense needs to step up and makes stops when necessary.

birtikidis
01-03-2010, 10:50 PM
I disagree about the jets having a better run blocking line than ours. ours was built to run, they're terrible pass blockers. I was thinking about the fourth qtr letdowns this season. against the pack we were up by a bunch of points and we kept throwing the ball. at one point we passed the ball all three downs and went three and out and took less then 40 seconds off the clock. today we threw the ball three times and went three and out. both cases were sandwhiched in between the opponents scoringa td. how many times did that happen this year? a ton!

Djfan
01-04-2010, 12:46 AM
Ball control is something BA doesn't get. It cost us the Raiders game.

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 03:04 PM
Ball control is something BA doesn't get. It cost us the Raiders game.
it cost us leads in 5 loses that's for damn sure.

SteelTorch
01-04-2010, 03:28 PM
Just watching the Jets put together a 21 play drive (15 run /5 pass/ 1fg) eating up 11 minutes.

Got me thinking about how many times we had scoring drives of 4 minutes or less this year. Our D was struggling and our offensive strategy was not adjusted to help them out. In our super bowl run the D helped out / bailed out the offense by putting up points or putting them in scoring position. However this year the offense consistently scored quickly or had short drives putting the D in bad position especially after they just got off the field.

It's not just scoring but how you score that matters. We will win a lot more games if we avoid track meets and are more methodical in our drives.

This is why I believe Ariens must go or adapt his offensive strategy. We need to be able to pass out of running formations and run out of passing formations meaning.....scrap the Damn 5 wide sets!

Our time of possession this season (32:51) was actually a full minute better than it was last season (31:41). Don't you guys bother to look this stuff up? So there are several reasons to our defensive struggles, but time of possession isn't one of them. You know, our pass D was ranked 16th in the league this season, compared to 1st in '08. That's quite a drop. You think that may have something to do with it?

And for the record, the Jets' average ToP this season was 32:07.

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 03:32 PM
Just watching the Jets put together a 21 play drive (15 run /5 pass/ 1fg) eating up 11 minutes.

Got me thinking about how many times we had scoring drives of 4 minutes or less this year. Our D was struggling and our offensive strategy was not adjusted to help them out. In our super bowl run the D helped out / bailed out the offense by putting up points or putting them in scoring position. However this year the offense consistently scored quickly or had short drives putting the D in bad position especially after they just got off the field.

It's not just scoring but how you score that matters. We will win a lot more games if we avoid track meets and are more methodical in our drives.

This is why I believe Ariens must go or adapt his offensive strategy. We need to be able to pass out of running formations and run out of passing formations meaning.....scrap the Damn 5 wide sets!

Our time of possession this season (32:51) was actually a full minute better than it was last season (31:41). Don't you guys bother to look this stuff up? So there are several reasons to our defensive struggles, but time of possession isn't one of them.

And for the record, the Jets' average ToP this season was 32:07.
TOP wasn't the problem the problem was controlling the ball when we needed to. when we had leads for example. that was when we had a hard time keeping ahold of the rock. plus, don't you think giving up all those special teams td's and td's on INT returns had something to do with time of possession? i mean we take 4 minutes to score a td then kickoff and the other team runs it back then we take 2 or 3 minutes off the clock... that happened ALOT this year.
don't you look this stuff up?

phillyesq
01-04-2010, 03:33 PM
I disagree about the jets having a better run blocking line than ours. ours was built to run, they're terrible pass blockers. I was thinking about the fourth qtr letdowns this season. against the pack we were up by a bunch of points and we kept throwing the ball. at one point we passed the ball all three downs and went three and out and took less then 40 seconds off the clock. today we threw the ball three times and went three and out. both cases were sandwhiched in between the opponents scoringa td. how many times did that happen this year? a ton!

I think the Jets have a much better run blocking OL than the Steelers. With the possible exception of Colon, I think the Jets are better at every position on the OL.

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 03:35 PM
seriously you can show me stats that are completely misleading.
we gave up how many more special teams td's this season? when the other team only has the ball for 20 seconds during a td return it seriously changes how the time of possession looks.
hell our best time of possession strategy was to go five wide and watch been get sacked. that's the only way we kept the clock moving.
didn't you watch the games? when did we take the ball and keep it for a 6 minute drive this season?

Sugar
01-04-2010, 03:39 PM
I expect our Offense to score at least 21 points per game (including PAT's).

I expect our Defense to allow only 17 points per game.

I expect our Special Teams to not allow any touchdowns or returns that put the opponent in FG range.

With this in mind, where did we fall down this year?

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 03:43 PM
our biggest problem was the red zone offense IMO. that and special teams. we ranked at or near the bottom in all kinds of special teams categories.

SteelTorch
01-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Just watching the Jets put together a 21 play drive (15 run /5 pass/ 1fg) eating up 11 minutes.

Got me thinking about how many times we had scoring drives of 4 minutes or less this year. Our D was struggling and our offensive strategy was not adjusted to help them out. In our super bowl run the D helped out / bailed out the offense by putting up points or putting them in scoring position. However this year the offense consistently scored quickly or had short drives putting the D in bad position especially after they just got off the field.

It's not just scoring but how you score that matters. We will win a lot more games if we avoid track meets and are more methodical in our drives.

This is why I believe Ariens must go or adapt his offensive strategy. We need to be able to pass out of running formations and run out of passing formations meaning.....scrap the Damn 5 wide sets!

Our time of possession this season (32:51) was actually a full minute better than it was last season (31:41). Don't you guys bother to look this stuff up? So there are several reasons to our defensive struggles, but time of possession isn't one of them.

And for the record, the Jets' average ToP this season was 32:07.
TOP wasn't the problem the problem was controlling the ball when we needed to. when we had leads for example. that was when we had a hard time keeping ahold of the rock. plus, don't you think giving up all those special teams td's and td's on INT returns had something to do with time of possession? i mean we take 4 minutes to score a td then kickoff and the other team runs it back then we take 2 or 3 minutes off the clock... that happened ALOT this year.
don't you look this stuff up?
Returns don't really have anything to do with ball control or ToP. So I don't see what your point is.

Secondly, ToP is a pretty good indicator of ball control, and to be honest, we were a lot better at it this year than we were last year. While we had some problems with it in the 4th quarter, it's not our offense's fault that our D struggled. It's not their fault that our defense allowed so many fourth quarter points in '09, and allowed guys like Jay Cutler to make them look pedestrian. Not trying to be rude, but it sounds to me like you're making a blanket statements without actually bothering to back them up with facts.

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 03:51 PM
how does special teams td's and int returns for td's have nothing to do with TOP? you gave me an average time of possession for the season. we gave up a league record number of non offensive td's this season. when the other team scores in 2o seconds doesn't that mean that we get the ball right back? it defintley changes the average time of possession.

SteelTorch
01-04-2010, 03:56 PM
how does special teams td's and int returns for td's have nothing to do with TOP? you gave me an average time of possession for the season. we gave up a league record number of non offensive td's this season. when the other team scores in 2o seconds doesn't that mean that we get the ball right back? it defintley changes the average time of possession.
Yeah that's true, but that also means our D doesn't sniff the field for that play. So that still means that being tired is not an excuse. Yeah our offense wasn't the greatest at ball control in the fourth quarter, but they were even worse last season. Ball control therefore shouldn't be an excuse.

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 04:00 PM
how does special teams td's and int returns for td's have nothing to do with TOP? you gave me an average time of possession for the season. we gave up a league record number of non offensive td's this season. when the other team scores in 2o seconds doesn't that mean that we get the ball right back? it defintley changes the average time of possession.
Yeah that's true, but that also means our D doesn't sniff the field for that play. So that still means that being tired is not an excuse. Yeah our offense wasn't the greatest at ball control in the fourth quarter, but they were even worse last season. I'm not going to blame our offense for our defensive struggles.
both sides struggled all season. I'm not gonna argue that. it really made me mad though that we would be up by two or three scores and throw the ball 3 times and have to punt the ball. we did that a ton of times this season.
that's why cowher was so successful when he had a lead of 11 plus. even if we went three and out we had the ball for at least 2 minutes. where as with BA if we have an 11 point lead we may only have the ball for 40 seconds.

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 04:01 PM
and the d doesn't have to be tired. they gave up points on the return. sure the d wasn't even on the field but guess what it counts against them.

SteelTorch
01-04-2010, 04:05 PM
how does special teams td's and int returns for td's have nothing to do with TOP? you gave me an average time of possession for the season. we gave up a league record number of non offensive td's this season. when the other team scores in 2o seconds doesn't that mean that we get the ball right back? it defintley changes the average time of possession.
Yeah that's true, but that also means our D doesn't sniff the field for that play. So that still means that being tired is not an excuse. Yeah our offense wasn't the greatest at ball control in the fourth quarter, but they were even worse last season. I'm not going to blame our offense for our defensive struggles.
both sides struggled all season. I'm not gonna argue that. it really made me mad though that we would be up by two or three scores and throw the ball 3 times and have to punt the ball. we did that a ton of times this season.
that's why cowher was so successful when he had a lead of 11 plus. even if we went three and out we had the ball for at least 2 minutes. where as with BA if we have an 11 point lead we may only have the ball for 40 seconds.
Cowher had better ball control, but he also had a defense that could be relied on the entire game. Don't forget, if our defense doesn't allow the other team to score so many points in the 4th quarter, that puts less pressure on our offense to pass and score quickly. See how the table can easily be turned?

Sure both sides had problems, I agree. My only point is that when our ToP and scoring offense is actually better than last season, I have a hard time believing that ball control is the reason behind our defense's sudden collapse.

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 04:14 PM
last year we had the #1 special teams units in the NFL
this year we have the 3rd worst kickoff coverage teams

take away the punt, kickoff, and int return td's and the defense looks alot better. eight special teams td's removes 56 points from our scored against total! damn!
KC had a kick return for a touchdown
cincy had a kick return for a touchdown
cleveland had a kick return for a touchdown
who else?

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 04:23 PM
oops Cincy returned an interception for a td in the first game not a KO return.

birtikidis
01-04-2010, 04:26 PM
oops Cincy returned an interception for a td in the first game not a KO return.
kickoff return was in the 2nd game.

Jooser
01-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Just watching the Jets put together a 21 play drive (15 run /5 pass/ 1fg) eating up 11 minutes.

Got me thinking about how many times we had scoring drives of 4 minutes or less this year. Our D was struggling and our offensive strategy was not adjusted to help them out. In our super bowl run the D helped out / bailed out the offense by putting up points or putting them in scoring position. However this year the offense consistently scored quickly or had short drives putting the D in bad position especially after they just got off the field.

It's not just scoring but how you score that matters. We will win a lot more games if we avoid track meets and are more methodical in our drives.

This is why I believe Ariens must go or adapt his offensive strategy. We need to be able to pass out of running formations and run out of passing formations meaning.....scrap the Damn 5 wide sets!

Our time of possession this season (32:51) was actually a full minute better than it was last season (31:41). Don't you guys bother to look this stuff up? So there are several reasons to our defensive struggles, but time of possession isn't one of them.

And for the record, the Jets' average ToP this season was 32:07.
TOP wasn't the problem the problem was controlling the ball when we needed to. when we had leads for example. that was when we had a hard time keeping ahold of the rock. plus, don't you think giving up all those special teams td's and td's on INT returns had something to do with time of possession? i mean we take 4 minutes to score a td then kickoff and the other team runs it back then we take 2 or 3 minutes off the clock... that happened ALOT this year.
don't you look this stuff up?

Bad situational football, that's what me thinks...

papillon
01-04-2010, 04:50 PM
last year we had the #1 special teams units in the NFL
this year we have the 3rd worst kickoff coverage teams

take away the punt, kickoff, and int return td's and the defense looks alot better. eight special teams td's removes 56 points from our scored against total! damn!
KC had a kick return for a touchdown
cincy had a kick return for a touchdown
cleveland had a kick return for a touchdown
who else?

Yea, but, it was still clear that the defense was an issue this year, special teams' points not withstanding.

Pappy

grotonsteel
01-04-2010, 04:55 PM
Ball control is something BA doesn't get. It cost us the Raiders game.


Its not the ball control...its the Paper Curtain Defense which cost us the Raiders game and more.

Steelers Defense made Brad Gradkowski, Cutler, Matt cassell look like Joe Montana

Paper Curtain Defense could not get a single INT against Bears. Jay Cutler had 26 INTS this season.

feltdizz
01-04-2010, 08:24 PM
Ball control is something BA doesn't get. It cost us the Raiders game.


Its not the ball control...its the Paper Curtain Defense which cost us the Raiders game and more.

Steelers Defense made Brad Gradkowski, Cutler, Matt cassell look like Joe Montana

Paper Curtain Defense could not get a single INT against Bears. Jay Cutler had 26 INTS this season.
:Agree

SteelHead
01-04-2010, 08:31 PM
Just to add to this thread....

The Steelers had 65 total scoring drives in 2009.

14 were 6-8 minutes
13 were 4-6 minutes
26 were 2-4 minutes
12 were under 2 minutes

Now , what determination you make from that as to what "type" of offense we are , I don't know but IMO it seems like a pretty balanced sustainable offense mixed in with quick strike ability. I do however think peoples perceptions are a little off considering the new NFL is built on sustaining offense through the air rather than ground and yes we are leaning that way ourselves despite an improved run game.

Our offenses biggest problem is situational football. Whether that be in the red zone or playing with a lead , we stunk. I'll blame Arians for that.

We clean up our situational offense and we're golden. As long as Ben is a Steeler it will be his offense as it should be.

BURGH86STEEL
01-04-2010, 09:06 PM
Just to add to this thread....

The Steelers had 65 total scoring drives in 2009.

14 were 6-8 minutes
13 were 4-6 minutes
26 were 2-4 minutes
12 were under 2 minutes

Now , what determination you make from that as to what "type" of offense we are , I don't know but IMO it seems like a pretty balanced sustainable offense mixed in with quick strike ability. I do however think peoples perceptions are a little off considering the new NFL is built on sustaining offense through the air rather than ground and yes we are leaning that way ourselves despite an improved run game.

Our offenses biggest problem is situational football. Whether that be in the red zone or playing with a lead , we stunk. I'll blame Arians for that.

We clean up our situational offense and we're golden. As long as Ben is a Steeler it will be his offense as it should be.

There are times they called good situational play calls and times they did not. I don't think they will ever get it correct 100% of the time.

It would be interesting to know how often they made mistakes in those situations. Sometimes fans base their opinions on a few bad play calls. Seems they forgot a lot of the good situational play calls they made.

NorthCoast
01-04-2010, 09:46 PM
I looked at ToP previously and agree that it was not the problem this year. But there are other stats that indicate the offense could do better. For example:

3rd down conversion rate: 39.4% (17th)
3rd down conversions per game: 5.0 (21st)
Red zone scoring %: 48.2% (22nd)
Punts per offensive score: 1.1 (12th)
Points per play: 0.363 (12th) (9 of the top 10 in this category are in the playoffs)
1st downs per game: 20.7 (10th) (8 of the top 10 in this category are in the playoffs)

Fix the defense and we will be fine.

Defense
Opponent 3rd down conversion rate: 42.3% (28th)
Takeaways per game: 1.4 (26th)

birtikidis
01-05-2010, 07:41 PM
ToP was not the problem. when you look and see we have the ball for 30+ minutes that's fine. it's we couldn't hold onto the ball when we HAD to. with a lead we kept throwing the ball and stopping the clock for the other team. when the other team needed time to score we gave it to them.