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NorthCoast
12-29-2009, 10:27 AM
Am wondering whether he stays on next season? He is currently 4th in the league on return yards but I am not sure he is really worth the roster spot. I think he is under-utilized and could be effective in our offense. He is not big and goes down pretty easily but if he can find a seam on a sweep for example, he could gain some nice yards. Also have not heard the reason why he is not returning punts full time, seems Moore or Holmes have been back there.

RuthlessBurgher
12-29-2009, 10:47 AM
Logan now has the team record for kick return yards in a season (surpassing Ernie Mills' record in 1995, I think...they announced it on the Jumbotron during the game).

They tend to use Moore on punt return when the punt is expected to land deep in our own territory (Moore has sure hands for fair-catches inside our own 20 yard line, and the smarts to know when to let it bounce inside the 5 yard line for a possible touchback).

They only used Holmes once or twice on punt returns this season in an effort to create a spark to get us out of our prolonged losing streak. He hasn't been back there since, and they even seem to be using Logan more often now deep in our own territory where we used Moore for most of the season.

It was nice to see Logan get his first taste on offense with a WR screen recently, and that set up a play in this Baltimore game perfectly. When they lined up Logan to Ben's right behind a couple of blocking WR's, the Ravens overloaded to that side, expecting another quick screen pass to Logan. I looked over and saw Santonio one-on-one on the other side, and said to my son "they are setting the Ravens up...he's going to throw it to Holmes on the left side" and that is exactly what they did. Great call.

Iron Shiek
12-29-2009, 11:22 AM
Logan now has the team record for kick return yards in a season (surpassing Ernie Mills' record in 1995, I think...they announced it on the Jumbotron during the game).

They tend to use Moore on punt return when the punt is expected to land deep in our own territory (Moore has sure hands for fair-catches inside our own 20 yard line, and the smarts to know when to let it bounce inside the 5 yard line for a possible touchback).

They only used Holmes once or twice on punt returns this season in an effort to create a spark to get us out of our prolonged losing streak. He hasn't been back there since, and they even seem to be using Logan more often now deep in our own territory where we used Moore for most of the season.

It was nice to see Logan get his first taste on offense with a WR screen recently, and that set up a play in this Baltimore game perfectly. When they lined up Logan to Ben's right behind a couple of blocking WR's, the Ravens overloaded to that side, expecting another quick screen pass to Logan. I looked over and saw Santonio one-on-one on the other side, and said to my son "they are setting the Ravens up...he's going to throw it to Holmes on the left side" and that is exactly what they did. Great call.

http://www.edu-negev.gov.il/bs/makif7/english/nostradamus2.jpg

Shawn
12-29-2009, 12:17 PM
I haven't been a huge Logan fan. I see that stats and ask myself how that happened. He is solid...catches the ball...secures the ball and makes yards. I guess I'm being picky. He is certainly an improvement over what we have had. With that said, no one fears Logan. He isn't Cribbs. I would love to either have a specialist that is truly special or draft a guy who can contribute in multiple places.

Sugar
12-29-2009, 12:49 PM
He had some issues earlier in the season, but he seems to be solid. If he can be used more on Offense he's definitley worth keeping, IMO.

papillon
12-29-2009, 01:32 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

Mister Pittsburgh
12-29-2009, 01:46 PM
To those saying having a kick return specialist isn't worth it.....do you also think we should unload Anthony Madison again.....since the only time he steps on the field is during kickoffs/punts?

MeetJoeGreene
12-29-2009, 01:49 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

He is a position player... he is a WR.
He is as much of a WR as Madision is a CB.

Why do people think a KR/PR is a luxury but a gunner isn't?

That being said, he isn't a Josh Cribbs on returns.
And... I think he could be factored into the offense more with experience and an offensive coordinator that had an imagination

SteelAbility
12-29-2009, 02:07 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

He is a position player... he is a WR.
He is as much of a WR as Madision is a CB.

Why do people think a KR/PR is a luxury but a gunner isn't?

That being said, he isn't a Josh Cribbs on returns.
And... I think he could be factored into the offense more with experience and an offensive coordinator that had an imagination

... or at least some abstract reasoning capability. :wink:

RuthlessBurgher
12-29-2009, 02:10 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

He is a position player... he is a WR.
He is as much of a WR as Madision is a CB.

Why do people think a KR/PR is a luxury but a gunner isn't?

That being said, he isn't a Josh Cribbs on returns.
And... I think he could be factored into the offense more with experience and an offensive coordinator that had an imagination

I'll never understand the "he's no Josh Cribbs" argument we always hear about Logan. No kidding! No one is! Cribbs has 10 returns for TD's in his 5 seasons in the league (8 on KR's and 2 on PR, including 3 on KR's and 1 on PR's this season). It's like the people on the board here that say "we need an Andre Johnson type WR." Yeah, so does every other team. That's what happens when you compare a guy to the best in the business.

Guess what, though...in Cribbs' first season in the league, he had 45 kick returns for 1094 yards (24.3 avg) and 1 TD. In Logan's first season in the league, he has 52 kick returns for 1,383 yards (26.6 avg) and 0 TD. He's also returned 28 punts for 239 yards (8.5 avg) in his first season, while Cribbs only returned 1 punt for 5 yards in his first season. As a first year return man, Logan was a better all-around return man than Cribbs was. I wonder if Browns fans were debating whether or not it was worth holding a roster spot for a specialist like Cribbs in '06 after his '05 season?

Shawn
12-29-2009, 02:16 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

He is a position player... he is a WR.
He is as much of a WR as Madision is a CB.

Why do people think a KR/PR is a luxury but a gunner isn't?

That being said, he isn't a Josh Cribbs on returns.
And... I think he could be factored into the offense more with experience and an offensive coordinator that had an imagination

I'll never understand the "he's no Josh Cribbs" argument we always hear about Logan. No kidding! No one is! Cribbs has 10 returns for TD's in his 5 seasons in the league (8 on KR's and 2 on PR, including 3 on KR's and 1 on PR's this season). It's like the people on the board here that say "we need an Andre Johnson type WR." Yeah, so does every other team. That's what happens when you compare a guy to the best in the business.

Guess what, though...in Cribbs' first season in the league, he had 45 kick returns for 1094 yards (24.3 avg) and 1 TD. In Logan's first season in the league, he has 52 kick returns for 1,383 yards (26.6 avg) and 0 TD. He's also returned 28 punts for 239 yards (8.5 avg) in his first season, while Cribbs only returned 1 punt for 5 yards in his first season. As a first year return man, Logan was a better all-around return man than Cribbs was. I wonder if Browns fans were debating whether or not it was worth holding a roster spot for a specialist like Cribbs in '06 after his '05 season?


All that shows is Cribbs had a lack luster first year. Is it too much to ask for a guy that can take it house? That opposing teams fear? I'm not saying he can't be something special...I just haven't seen it yet. Considering how bad our return game was before this year I would certainly keep him. With that said, he will have to show more big play ability before I am happy to keep him.

Shoe
12-29-2009, 02:22 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

He is a position player... he is a WR.
He is as much of a WR as Madision is a CB.

Why do people think a KR/PR is a luxury but a gunner isn't?

That being said, he isn't a Josh Cribbs on returns.
And... I think he could be factored into the offense more with experience and an offensive coordinator that had an imagination

I'll never understand the "he's no Josh Cribbs" argument we always hear about Logan. No kidding! No one is! Cribbs has 10 returns for TD's in his 5 seasons in the league (8 on KR's and 2 on PR, including 3 on KR's and 1 on PR's this season). It's like the people on the board here that say "we need an Andre Johnson type WR." Yeah, so does every other team. That's what happens when you compare a guy to the best in the business.

Guess what, though...in Cribbs' first season in the league, he had 45 kick returns for 1094 yards (24.3 avg) and 1 TD. In Logan's first season in the league, he has 52 kick returns for 1,383 yards (26.6 avg) and 0 TD. He's also returned 28 punts for 239 yards (8.5 avg) in his first season, while Cribbs only returned 1 punt for 5 yards in his first season. As a first year return man, Logan was a better all-around return man than Cribbs was. I wonder if Browns fans were debating whether or not it was worth holding a roster spot for a specialist like Cribbs in '06 after his '05 season?

Good argument ruthless...
So now are you saying Logan is Cribbs?

I don't think people are saying he's not Cribbs as in expectations (unrealistic) of him. I think they're saying it in the context of what it would take for them to want to hold onto him.

I've sorta been won over by Logan. During the middle portion of the year, I wasn't happy because (we were losing but) because I didn't see the BIG returns that I was expecting from Logan this year. We actually haven't seen one yet.

But Logan has proven to be solid. I likened him to Darren Sproles in the preseason, but he doesn't have the strength to run through contact like he needs (and like Sproles has). It just goes to show the difference between presseason special teams and regular special teams--presesason, Logan wasn't getting touched cuz he was that much quicker; now that the holes are much smaller, he is (getting touched), and it slows him down to the point where he can't break free.

I like him, but unless he dramatically gets better (i.e. stronger, faster), I don't reserve anything for him.

MeetJoeGreene
12-29-2009, 02:27 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

He is a position player... he is a WR.
He is as much of a WR as Madision is a CB.

Why do people think a KR/PR is a luxury but a gunner isn't?

That being said, he isn't a Josh Cribbs on returns.
And... I think he could be factored into the offense more with experience and an offensive coordinator that had an imagination

I'll never understand the "he's no Josh Cribbs" argument we always hear about Logan. No kidding! No one is! Cribbs has 10 returns for TD's in his 5 seasons in the league (8 on KR's and 2 on PR, including 3 on KR's and 1 on PR's this season). It's like the people on the board here that say "we need an Andre Johnson type WR." Yeah, so does every other team. That's what happens when you compare a guy to the best in the business.

Guess what, though...in Cribbs' first season in the league, he had 45 kick returns for 1094 yards (24.3 avg) and 1 TD. In Logan's first season in the league, he has 52 kick returns for 1,383 yards (26.6 avg) and 0 TD. He's also returned 28 punts for 239 yards (8.5 avg) in his first season, while Cribbs only returned 1 punt for 5 yards in his first season. As a first year return man, Logan was a better all-around return man than Cribbs was. I wonder if Browns fans were debating whether or not it was worth holding a roster spot for a specialist like Cribbs in '06 after his '05 season?

Very interesting comparision on Cribbs vs. Logan first years.
My entire point was that he is a position player and could/should be worked into more offensive schemes. I can hold out hope that he will be a Cribbs in the future.

papillon
12-29-2009, 03:09 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

He is a position player... he is a WR.
He is as much of a WR as Madision is a CB.

Why do people think a KR/PR is a luxury but a gunner isn't?

That being said, he isn't a Josh Cribbs on returns.
And... I think he could be factored into the offense more with experience and an offensive coordinator that had an imagination

Gunner, KO specialist and long snapper, it's ridiculous that these positions can't be filled by a backup without having to waste a roster spot. Using Logan on offense is wasting a down, there are 3 or 4 better athletes in the WR/RB corps I'd rather have give the ball to on bubble screens and any other play you're going to draw up for Logan; who is knocked off his feet with a strong burst of wind.

Three wasted roster spots as far as I'm concerned. The long snapper is so important that we just signed one in week 15 or 16 and didn't miss a beat. It's not that difficult to learn how to long snap, being a gunner is all about desire and KO return specialist should be any skill position player that has open field moves.

No reason to take up roster spots with these guys, obviously, I'm in the minority, but I don't get it.

Pappy

Iron Shiek
12-29-2009, 04:21 PM
I would prefer a position player over Logan the KO return specialist. You can't have enough bodies during a 16 week season. He had some real nice returns that set the Steelers' offense up nicely, but, to me a KO return specialist is a luxury and not a need.

Pappy

He is a position player... he is a WR.
He is as much of a WR as Madision is a CB.

Why do people think a KR/PR is a luxury but a gunner isn't?

That being said, he isn't a Josh Cribbs on returns.
And... I think he could be factored into the offense more with experience and an offensive coordinator that had an imagination

I'll never understand the "he's no Josh Cribbs" argument we always hear about Logan. No kidding! No one is! Cribbs has 10 returns for TD's in his 5 seasons in the league (8 on KR's and 2 on PR, including 3 on KR's and 1 on PR's this season). It's like the people on the board here that say "we need an Andre Johnson type WR." Yeah, so does every other team. That's what happens when you compare a guy to the best in the business.

Guess what, though...in Cribbs' first season in the league, he had 45 kick returns for 1094 yards (24.3 avg) and 1 TD. In Logan's first season in the league, he has 52 kick returns for 1,383 yards (26.6 avg) and 0 TD. He's also returned 28 punts for 239 yards (8.5 avg) in his first season, while Cribbs only returned 1 punt for 5 yards in his first season. As a first year return man, Logan was a better all-around return man than Cribbs was. I wonder if Browns fans were debating whether or not it was worth holding a roster spot for a specialist like Cribbs in '06 after his '05 season?

Not to mention the guy was a QB in college.

I've demanded more from Logan, but I still go back to my point that he is far more affective than Carey Davis barreling his way to the 20 falling after the wind blew on him.

Steelerphile
12-29-2009, 11:22 PM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

stlrz d
12-29-2009, 11:51 PM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I put more stock in the average than I do total yards.

He's had lots of opportunities to pile up the total yards...unfortunately. :(

Shawn
12-30-2009, 12:03 AM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

Discipline of Steel
12-30-2009, 12:20 AM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

8th out of 32 is pretty decent. Plus he does have some upside since he is in his first year.

As far as the other positions, I would save a spot for the KR/LS but not the gunners for one simple fact. The KR and LS handles the ball.

Shawn
12-30-2009, 01:00 AM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

8th out of 32 is pretty decent. Plus he does have some upside since he is in his first year.

As far as the other positions, I would save a spot for the KR/LS but not the gunners for one simple fact. The KR and LS handles the ball.


Hence the debate...is pretty good...good enough for a specialist. Is pretty good worth a roster spot? I don't think there is a wrong answer. I mean the guy is solid. Im glad we have him...just wish he was more involved with other aspects of the O.

Chadman
12-30-2009, 09:00 AM
With Mendenhall taking over the Number 1 RB position from Parker this season, and now assuming the 3rd down back role as well from Moore- Chadman believes both Parker & moore (and their salaries) could be shown the door, opening up 2 spots on what could be an all new RB committee.

Could Logan fill Moore's role?

Shawn
12-30-2009, 09:34 AM
With Mendenhall taking over the Number 1 RB position from Parker this season, and now assuming the 3rd down back role as well from Moore- Chadman believes both Parker & moore (and their salaries) could be shown the door, opening up 2 spots on what could be an all new RB committee.

Could Logan fill Moore's role?

Chadman first I want to say thank you for that pic...very nice :)

Yes, Parker is gone after this season...no way we keep him.
Moore is here to stay. The Steelers are very high on Moore as well they should be. He is a smart, tough, well rounded back with a nose for the first down marker. He is great to have as a back up.

papillon
12-30-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm not criticizing the player, he's played well, I'm criticizing the position. It's a luxury, not a need. I would have rather kept some other bodies around to see if they can develop particularly on defense. The Steelers are aging on defense and Eason and Wood appear to be making strides, but after that the Steelers don't have much in the stable.

Pappy

feltdizz
12-30-2009, 02:37 PM
Seriously? Last year we begged for a KR who could get past the 20... Now he needs to take it to the house a few times to prove his worth. A good KR is someone who has the ability to take it to the house.... but the reality is it won't happen that much and those who do it a few times a year are talked about like legends...

Besides not taking a knee a few times this year he has been a godsend and if he takes one
to the house nex week the board will say he is a gamechanger. A Kickoff returned for a TD is. Luxury.. a 26 yard average on returns is a damn good player to have.

*sings* I want it all, I want it all ... Right now

SteelAbility
12-30-2009, 04:10 PM
Logan is the best KR we have had in years. Other than the "roster spot for a specialist" argument, I'm simply not buying it. However, that being said, I see immense value in having Logan in at WR for 3rd and short situations. He appears to be faster than pretty much everyone in the first 10 yards. Quick out to Logan and I think he can get 2-3 yards at will (assuming he catches it).

We had some big expectations that he would take it to the house a few times. Didn't happen.

But I would put that more on the STs blocking than on Logan. Our STs has given up something like 5 (or 6? or 7?) TDs this season. It's the guys around Logan who aren't getting it done. While STs coverage is not the same as STs blocking, I'm going to hazard a guess that the same deficiency in coverage is likely present in blocking.

Assuming we have below average blocking (which I think is pretty fair) then Logan's above average return numbers speak very well for him. Fix the blocking and his numbers will get even better and we'll all be talking about annointing him as one of the best Steelers ever. :P

Iron Shiek
12-30-2009, 04:16 PM
Logan is the best KR we have had in years. Other than the "roster spot for a specialist" argument, I'm simply not buying it. However, that being said, I see immense value in having Logan in at WR for 3rd and short situations. He appears to be faster than pretty much everyone in the first 10 yards. Quick out to Logan and I think he can get 2-3 yards at will (assuming he catches it).

We had some big expectations that he would take it to the house a few times. Didn't happen.

But I would put that more on the STs blocking than on Logan. Our STs has given up something like 5 (or 6? or 7?) TDs this season. It's the guys around Logan who aren't getting it done. While STs coverage is not the same as STs blocking, I'm going to hazard a guess that the same deficiency in coverage is likely present in blocking.

Assuming we have below average blocking (which I think is pretty fair) then Logan's above average return numbers speak very well for him. Fix the blocking and his numbers will get even better and we'll all be talking about annointing him as one of the best Steelers ever. :P


Good chance of that happening, especially from shotgun 5 WR set....oops, wait scratch that. We are frowned upon for talking bad about BA's game plan all of the sudden. It would be the defense's fault Logan didn't convert I'm sure. Or at least the defense's fault that we even had to be lining up in shotgun 5 WR on 3rd and short anyway. :) :wink:

RuthlessBurgher
12-30-2009, 04:28 PM
Logan is the best KR we have had in years. Other than the "roster spot for a specialist" argument, I'm simply not buying it. However, that being said, I see immense value in having Logan in at WR for 3rd and short situations. He appears to be faster than pretty much everyone in the first 10 yards. Quick out to Logan and I think he can get 2-3 yards at will (assuming he catches it).

We had some big expectations that he would take it to the house a few times. Didn't happen.

But I would put that more on the STs blocking than on Logan. Our STs has given up something like 5 (or 6? or 7?) TDs this season. It's the guys around Logan who aren't getting it done. While STs coverage is not the same as STs blocking, I'm going to hazard a guess that the same deficiency in coverage is likely present in blocking.

Assuming we have below average blocking (which I think is pretty fair) then Logan's above average return numbers speak very well for him. Fix the blocking and his numbers will get even better and we'll all be talking about annointing him as one of the best Steelers ever. :P


Good chance of that happening, especially from shotgun 5 WR set....oops, wait scratch that. We are frowned upon for talking bad about BA's game plan all of the sudden. It would be the defense's fault Logan didn't convert I'm sure. Or at least the defense's fault that we even had to be lining up in shotgun 5 WR on 3rd and short anyway. :) :wink:

St. LeBeau should have replaced Gay with Logan at starting CB months ago! :stirpot :P

Steelerphile
12-30-2009, 06:21 PM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

C'mon, anybody can do some research and see that 5 of returners above him have a handful of returns, 12, 3, 1, 5, stuff like that. That's like saying a hitter who has 40 at bats and is hitting .440 is better than a hitter with 400 at bats and is hitting .330.

He has 52 returns and a 26.6 average. That is excellent. Anybody who is trying to be fair would say so. Josh Cribbs has taken three to the house and has 27.1 ave which is only slightly better. Logan is probably more consistent. And 4 returns over 40 yards is a good stat. There aren't many returners who have that many.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-30-2009, 09:37 PM
Remember, we brought in a veteran KR a couple of years ago (can't remember his name)...he had been one of the best, but when he came to the Steelers, his stats weren't anything special. Then, this season he went to the Niners or some NFC team, and all of a sudden, he was very good again.

My point is, I'm not sure that our return teams would make even Josh Cribbs look very good. I'm not saying Logan is as good as Cribbs, but I don't think he's any slouch. With a little better ST play around him, he might break a TD or two during the season.

Hope we get a new ST coordinator who can improve this unit.

Herewegosteelers!
12-30-2009, 10:16 PM
Remember, we brought in a veteran KR a couple of years ago (can't remember his name)...he had been one of the best, but when he came to the Steelers, his stats weren't anything special. Then, this season he went to the Niners or some NFC team, and all of a sudden, he was very good again.

My point is, I'm not sure that our return teams would make even Josh Cribbs look very good. I'm not saying Logan is as good as Cribbs, but I don't think he's any slouch. With a little better ST play around him, he might break a TD or two during the season.

Hope we get a new ST coordinator who can improve this unit.

Yes Allen Rossum........very true. With good special teams play, Logan's numbers might even be better. A new special teams coach should be first on the list.

Shawn
12-31-2009, 03:04 AM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

C'mon, anybody can do some research and see that 5 of returners above him have a handful of returns, 12, 3, 1, 5, stuff like that. That's like saying a hitter who has 40 at bats and is hitting .440 is better than a hitter with 400 at bats and is hitting .330.

He has 52 returns and a 26.6 average. That is excellent. Anybody who is trying to be fair would say so. Josh Cribbs has taken three to the house and has 27.1 ave which is only slightly better. Logan is probably more consistent. And 4 returns over 40 yards is a good stat. There aren't many returners who have that many.

So, what you are saying is Logan is almost as good as Cribbs...gotcha. :roll:
Cribbs is worthy of a specialist position because teams fear him. No one fears Logan. Cribbs took it to the house 3 times this season...Logan=0. Logan only had 4 40+ returns...yet because he can hold onto the ball and has a reasonable average...he is worth depth and development at other positions?

I'm playing devils advocate here. For now he is needed. I want to draft a guy who can return and provide real depth at another position. Until we do that...we must keep Logan.

AngryAsian
12-31-2009, 07:15 AM
So, what you are saying is Logan is almost as good as Cribbs...gotcha. :roll:
Cribbs is worthy of a specialist position because teams fear him. No one fears Logan. Cribbs took it to the house 3 times this season...Logan=0. Logan only had 4 40+ returns...yet because he can hold onto the ball and has a reasonable average...he is worth depth and development at other positions?

I'm playing devils advocate here. For now he is needed. I want to draft a guy who can return and provide real depth at another position. Until we do that...we must keep Logan.


Agreed on all points.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-31-2009, 07:55 AM
It's been a while since I read the earlier pages of this thread, so apologies if this is redundant ...

Logan is reportedly 2nd in the AFC for kickoff returns, 26.6 yards. So he might not be a Cribbs, but I'd certainly make sure he didn't get thrown away with the bathwater.

SteelAbility
12-31-2009, 10:05 AM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

C'mon, anybody can do some research and see that 5 of returners above him have a handful of returns, 12, 3, 1, 5, stuff like that. That's like saying a hitter who has 40 at bats and is hitting .440 is better than a hitter with 400 at bats and is hitting .330.

He has 52 returns and a 26.6 average. That is excellent. Anybody who is trying to be fair would say so. Josh Cribbs has taken three to the house and has 27.1 ave which is only slightly better. Logan is probably more consistent. And 4 returns over 40 yards is a good stat. There aren't many returners who have that many.

So, what you are saying is Logan is almost as good as Cribbs...gotcha. :roll:
Cribbs is worthy of a specialist position because teams fear him. No one fears Logan. Cribbs took it to the house 3 times this season...Logan=0. Logan only had 4 40+ returns...yet because he can hold onto the ball and has a reasonable average...he is worth depth and development at other positions?

I'm playing devils advocate here. For now he is needed. I want to draft a guy who can return and provide real depth at another position. Until we do that...we must keep Logan.

Do you really think Logan and Cribbs have the same quality of STs around them? We've given up 4 KO returns for TDs, none on PRs. Cleveland has give up no returns for TDs on either KOs or PRs. Given that and the fact that Logan's average is 26.6 and Cribbs' average is at 27.1, I think a case could be made that Logan isn't far behind Cribbs.

Shawn
12-31-2009, 12:30 PM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

C'mon, anybody can do some research and see that 5 of returners above him have a handful of returns, 12, 3, 1, 5, stuff like that. That's like saying a hitter who has 40 at bats and is hitting .440 is better than a hitter with 400 at bats and is hitting .330.

He has 52 returns and a 26.6 average. That is excellent. Anybody who is trying to be fair would say so. Josh Cribbs has taken three to the house and has 27.1 ave which is only slightly better. Logan is probably more consistent. And 4 returns over 40 yards is a good stat. There aren't many returners who have that many.

So, what you are saying is Logan is almost as good as Cribbs...gotcha. :roll:
Cribbs is worthy of a specialist position because teams fear him. No one fears Logan. Cribbs took it to the house 3 times this season...Logan=0. Logan only had 4 40+ returns...yet because he can hold onto the ball and has a reasonable average...he is worth depth and development at other positions?

I'm playing devils advocate here. For now he is needed. I want to draft a guy who can return and provide real depth at another position. Until we do that...we must keep Logan.

Do you really think Logan and Cribbs have the same quality of STs around them? We've given up 4 KO returns for TDs, none on PRs. Cleveland has give up no returns for TDs on either KOs or PRs. Given that and the fact that Logan's average is 26.6 and Cribbs' average is at 27.1, I think a case could be made that Logan isn't far behind Cribbs.

Come on...isn't that bit of a stretch? You are saying the Steelers have less talent than the Browns? Or are you saying covering a kick off is the same as blocking for one?

Logan lacks the explosiveness and "slipperiness" of Cribbs. He is a necessary evil at this particular point. We have to have him. Maybe he will improve and prove his worth. Until then...many of the Steeler faithful will hope for a guy can than do something more than KR.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-31-2009, 12:57 PM
If we had an OC with even a miniscule amount of creativity, I think you would have seen by now that Logan can "do something more than KR."

Steelerphile
12-31-2009, 06:06 PM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

C'mon, anybody can do some research and see that 5 of returners above him have a handful of returns, 12, 3, 1, 5, stuff like that. That's like saying a hitter who has 40 at bats and is hitting .440 is better than a hitter with 400 at bats and is hitting .330.

He has 52 returns and a 26.6 average. That is excellent. Anybody who is trying to be fair would say so. Josh Cribbs has taken three to the house and has 27.1 ave which is only slightly better. Logan is probably more consistent. And 4 returns over 40 yards is a good stat. There aren't many returners who have that many.

So, what you are saying is Logan is almost as good as Cribbs...gotcha. :roll:
Cribbs is worthy of a specialist position because teams fear him. No one fears Logan. Cribbs took it to the house 3 times this season...Logan=0. Logan only had 4 40+ returns...yet because he can hold onto the ball and has a reasonable average...he is worth depth and development at other positions?

I'm playing devils advocate here. For now he is needed. I want to draft a guy who can return and provide real depth at another position. Until we do that...we must keep Logan.

I don't feel "got" by anything you have said, but yes if Logan is just "almost" as good as Cribbs who had an otherwordly season, he can still be excellent.

How do you know, noone fears Logan? He has proven dangerous so I don't think other teams consider him an afterthought as much as you do.

26.6 is much more than a reasonable average. That is a top average. Steelers haven't had a KO returner average that high for a while.

Also you act like 4 returns over 40 yards is trivial. Cribbs has 6 returns over 40 yards, Jamaal Charles and Darren Sproles have 5 returns over 40 yards, although Logan has a KO return average higher than both. Next is Logan and someone else with 4. As I said before that is a good stat.

Also if Darren Sproles can play from scrimmage, then so can Logan. He just hasn't gotten much of an opportunity.

Shawn
12-31-2009, 09:08 PM
I think the criticism I see of Logan is somewhat surprising. He has been more than solid. He is the best KO returner the Steelers have had since Larry Anderson in the late 70's and 80's.

26.1 ave and over 1,300.00 KO return yards (Steeler season record) is excellent. That isn't just solid. He has more than justified his roster position. The only thing he hasn't done is take it to the house, but he has had a number of long returns. Sometimes fan expectation is so unrealistic, it is impossible to meet it.

Definitely Logan should be coming back and next year they should start finding him opportunities in the base offense.

I think the criticism is due to the fact that he's a specialist yet only had 4...40+ yard kick returns and is only 8th in average return yards.

C'mon, anybody can do some research and see that 5 of returners above him have a handful of returns, 12, 3, 1, 5, stuff like that. That's like saying a hitter who has 40 at bats and is hitting .440 is better than a hitter with 400 at bats and is hitting .330.

He has 52 returns and a 26.6 average. That is excellent. Anybody who is trying to be fair would say so. Josh Cribbs has taken three to the house and has 27.1 ave which is only slightly better. Logan is probably more consistent. And 4 returns over 40 yards is a good stat. There aren't many returners who have that many.

So, what you are saying is Logan is almost as good as Cribbs...gotcha. :roll:
Cribbs is worthy of a specialist position because teams fear him. No one fears Logan. Cribbs took it to the house 3 times this season...Logan=0. Logan only had 4 40+ returns...yet because he can hold onto the ball and has a reasonable average...he is worth depth and development at other positions?

I'm playing devils advocate here. For now he is needed. I want to draft a guy who can return and provide real depth at another position. Until we do that...we must keep Logan.

I don't feel "got" by anything you have said, but yes if Logan is just "almost" as good as Cribbs who had an otherwordly season, he can still be excellent.

How do you know, noone fears Logan? He has proven dangerous so I don't think other teams consider him an afterthought as much as you do.

26.6 is much more than a reasonable average. That is a top average. Steelers haven't had a KO returner average that high for a while.

Also you act like 4 returns over 40 yards is trivial. Cribbs has 6 returns over 40 yards, Jamaal Charles and Darren Sproles have 5 returns over 40 yards, although Logan has a KO return average higher than both. Next is Logan and someone else with 4. As I said before that is a good stat.

Also if Darren Sproles can play from scrimmage, then so can Logan. He just hasn't gotten much of an opportunity.

Jamaal Charles and Sproles also do more than kick return. :idea:

That's my only point.

steelblood
01-01-2010, 10:43 AM
Logan could be developed as a slot receiver. He catches the ball well. We could work him into the game plan a bit.

I like him as a kick returner. He doesn't have finishing speed, but he is very capable of getting out to midfield.

Shawn
01-01-2010, 11:17 AM
Logan could be developed as a slot receiver. He catches the ball well. We could work him into the game plan a bit.

I like him as a kick returner. He doesn't have finishing speed, but he is very capable of getting out to midfield.

I would love to see what he can do in the slot. But at 5 foot 6 180 pounds...I'm not sure how long that experiment would last.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-01-2010, 02:00 PM
Logan could be developed as a slot receiver. He catches the ball well. We could work him into the game plan a bit.

I like him as a kick returner. He doesn't have finishing speed, but he is very capable of getting out to midfield.

I would love to see what he can do in the slot. But at 5 foot 6 180 pounds...I'm not sure how long that experiment would last.

Well, Darren Sproles' size doesn't seem to have hurt him too badly in this regard...I'd like to see Logan utilized at least 4 to 6 times a game...

Shawn
01-01-2010, 03:23 PM
Logan could be developed as a slot receiver. He catches the ball well. We could work him into the game plan a bit.

I like him as a kick returner. He doesn't have finishing speed, but he is very capable of getting out to midfield.

I would love to see what he can do in the slot. But at 5 foot 6 180 pounds...I'm not sure how long that experiment would last.

Well, Darren Sproles' size doesn't seem to have hurt him too badly in this regard...I'd like to see Logan utilized at least 4 to 6 times a game...

You have a point. I certainly would like to try it. He should be able to pick up some YAC.