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View Full Version : Redundant Thoughts Week 16 – Ravens



redundantman
12-28-2009, 09:14 AM
deleted...

stlrz d
12-28-2009, 09:56 AM
Nice thoughts...one thing to add.



Give it a shot...I'm just sayin'. :D :D :D

:P

redundantman
12-28-2009, 09:59 AM
deleted...

stlrz d
12-28-2009, 10:00 AM
Nice thoughts...one thing to add.



Give it a shot...I'm just sayin'. :D :D :D

:P
Done. Thanks for the protip.

There's one more step to the process...you have to use the embed code, not the url. :)

redundantman
12-28-2009, 10:22 AM
deleted...

Ghost
12-28-2009, 12:01 PM
William Gay is terrible. He's 5 steps below mediocre. He could be replaced by a 6th round pick.

I can't beleive it's come to this (actually it came to it many, many weeks ago) but after the Steelers went up I wanted them to kick it out of bounds. Seriously. How bad are your special teams when giving the other team the 40 yard line is the smart play, especially with the game on the line. Both ST coaches need to see the door.

redundantman
12-28-2009, 12:28 PM
deleted...

papillon
12-28-2009, 02:36 PM
William Gay is terrible. He's 5 steps below mediocre. He could be replaced by a 6th round pick.

I can't beleive it's come to this (actually it came to it many, many weeks ago) but after the Steelers went up I wanted them to kick it out of bounds. Seriously. How bad are your special teams when giving the other team the 40 yard line is the smart play, especially with the game on the line. Both ST coaches need to see the door.
The Steelers talent scouts appear to have seriously misfired on Gay. I pray that's an isolated incident.

What does it say about their ability to evaluate secondary talent that Burnett and Lewis aren't in the game and they put Townsend into the game?

Pappy

papillon
12-28-2009, 02:38 PM
28. What’s the opposite of a false start?

A true finish... :moon :P

Pappy

brothervad
12-28-2009, 03:41 PM
Guys,

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but folks who think the Steelers scouting missed the boat on Gay are incorrect in that assertion.

The draft info on this 5th round pick was that at best he was a supplemental DB for a nickel/dime package. He was never meant to be a #2 corner.

The problem here isn't Gay as a DB, it's Gay as a starting CB. The Steelers gambled by not re-signing McFadden and not filling the #2 CB position either thru FA, Draft, or Trade. The gamble failed.

I am by no means a draftnik so if someone can tell me the success rate of finding a #2 corner in the 5th round I will be willing to recant my statment, but given the info below I have to assume the Steelers were looking to add depth to their DB backfield not trying to get a starter. In other words, this wasn't a Darelle Revis replacement pick.

IMHO, the on field brain trust were hoping/delusional in their assessment of Gay being a #2.

A trip back to yesteryear:

William Gay
SELECTED BY: Pittsburgh Steelers Round 5(33) SI Grade
N/A


Position:
CB Class:
Sr School:
Louisville Conference:
Big East Ht., Wt.:
5-10, 184 40 Time:
4.67

BIOGRAPHY: Three-year starter who also played with the first team as a freshman. All-Conference selection last season after totaling 60/6/13.

POSITIVES: Tough, feisty cornerback with marginal speed. Displays good instincts, locates the pass in the air and has a decisive move defending the throw. Displays a sense of timing and shows a burst of closing speed. Gives effort defending the run.

NEGATIVES: Lacks top-end speed and struggles staying downfield with opponents. Undersized, and is easily blocked from the action.

ANALYSIS: Taking his game to another level last year, Gay showed enough skill and ability to get consideration as a zone cornerback in dime situations.

PROJECTION: Early Seventh Round

brothervad

redundantman
12-29-2009, 08:23 AM
deleted...

Oviedo
12-29-2009, 08:51 AM
Guys,

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but folks who think the Steelers scouting missed the boat on Gay are incorrect in that assertion.

The draft info on this 5th round pick was that at best he was a supplemental DB for a nickel/dime package. He was never meant to be a #2 corner.

The problem here isn't Gay as a DB, it's Gay as a starting CB. The Steelers gambled by not re-signing McFadden and not filling the #2 CB position either thru FA, Draft, or Trade. The gamble failed.

I am by no means a draftnik so if someone can tell me the success rate of finding a #2 corner in the 5th round I will be willing to recant my statment, but given the info below I have to assume the Steelers were looking to add depth to their DB backfield not trying to get a starter. In other words, this wasn't a Darelle Revis replacement pick.

IMHO, the on field brain trust were hoping/delusional in their assessment of Gay being a #2.

A trip back to yesteryear:

William Gay
SELECTED BY: Pittsburgh Steelers Round 5(33) SI Grade
N/A


Position:
CB Class:
Sr School:
Louisville Conference:
Big East Ht., Wt.:
5-10, 184 40 Time:
4.67

BIOGRAPHY: Three-year starter who also played with the first team as a freshman. All-Conference selection last season after totaling 60/6/13.

POSITIVES: Tough, feisty cornerback with marginal speed. Displays good instincts, locates the pass in the air and has a decisive move defending the throw. Displays a sense of timing and shows a burst of closing speed. Gives effort defending the run.

NEGATIVES: Lacks top-end speed and struggles staying downfield with opponents. Undersized, and is easily blocked from the action.

ANALYSIS: Taking his game to another level last year, Gay showed enough skill and ability to get consideration as a zone cornerback in dime situations.

PROJECTION: Early Seventh Round

brothervad
I was operating under the assumption that if the guy is starting at CB then the Steelers considered him capable of doing so. This report doesn't seem to indicate that. I guess since Gay got lucky at the end of last season on a couple of plays Coach "Unleash Fail" figured he should get a chance to start.

More likely St Le Beau made that decision and because he is a "legend" we cannot question it. St Le Beau has responsibility for getting the defense ready and he has failed to do that this year.

redundantman
12-29-2009, 08:58 AM
deleted...

stlrz d
12-29-2009, 09:42 AM
I don't recall one person on here questioning Gay being named the starter once McFadden was gone.

We all saw what he did in relief of BMac and we all felt he would get it done.

He didn't.

Whether that's a failure due to Gay himself or due to no Troy in the secondary or a combination thereof...we will probably never know.

Iron Shiek
12-29-2009, 09:44 AM
I don't recall one person on here questioning Gay being named the starter once McFadden was gone.

We all saw what he did in relief of BMac and we all felt he would get it done.

He didn't.

Whether that's a failure due to Gay himself or due to no Troy in the secondary or a combination thereof...we will probably never know.

That's kinda how I remember it too, at least for me personally. I thought the kid was ready to step into the role. Looks like it was a miss. He's still useful, just needs to go back what he was doing before or do some serious hard work in the offseason.

SteelAbility
12-29-2009, 09:55 AM
A trip back to yesteryear:

William Gay
SELECTED BY: Pittsburgh Steelers Round 5(33) SI Grade
N/A


Position:
CB Class:
Sr School:
Louisville Conference:
Big East Ht., Wt.:
5-10, 184 40 Time:
4.67





You have some good points. But good grief ... a 4.67 40 at 184 pounds!!?? There are DE's at 260+ who can run that. I could have told you a guy like that is torch fodder. That's a problem that is only correctible by near perfect positioning on a very high percentage of plays.

Teams are SOOO picking on Gay and it's not complicated. Just go to his man. Gay simply lacks the physicality to hang at this level. 3rd and 8. No problem. Just go to Gay's man. 1st and 10. Great, we can get an easy 2nd and 2. Just go to Gay's man.

Wolfhound45
12-29-2009, 09:58 AM
"Unleash Fail"

:P

That is hilarious on so many levels!

Wolfhound45
12-29-2009, 10:00 AM
Guys,

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but folks who think the Steelers scouting missed the boat on Gay are incorrect in that assertion.

The draft info on this 5th round pick was that at best he was a supplemental DB for a nickel/dime package. He was never meant to be a #2 corner.

The problem here isn't Gay as a DB, it's Gay as a starting CB. The Steelers gambled by not re-signing McFadden and not filling the #2 CB position either thru FA, Draft, or Trade. The gamble failed.

I am by no means a draftnik so if someone can tell me the success rate of finding a #2 corner in the 5th round I will be willing to recant my statment, but given the info below I have to assume the Steelers were looking to add depth to their DB backfield not trying to get a starter. In other words, this wasn't a Darelle Revis replacement pick.

IMHO, the on field brain trust were hoping/delusional in their assessment of Gay being a #2.

A trip back to yesteryear:

William Gay
SELECTED BY: Pittsburgh Steelers Round 5(33) SI Grade
N/A


Position:
CB Class:
Sr School:
Louisville Conference:
Big East Ht., Wt.:
5-10, 184 40 Time:
4.67

BIOGRAPHY: Three-year starter who also played with the first team as a freshman. All-Conference selection last season after totaling 60/6/13.

POSITIVES: Tough, feisty cornerback with marginal speed. Displays good instincts, locates the pass in the air and has a decisive move defending the throw. Displays a sense of timing and shows a burst of closing speed. Gives effort defending the run.

NEGATIVES: Lacks top-end speed and struggles staying downfield with opponents. Undersized, and is easily blocked from the action.

ANALYSIS: Taking his game to another level last year, Gay showed enough skill and ability to get consideration as a zone cornerback in dime situations.

PROJECTION: Early Seventh Round

brothervad

Nice find brothervad. Thanks for posting and providing a little context to the situation we are in.

ikestops85
12-29-2009, 11:03 AM
I don't recall one person on here questioning Gay being named the starter once McFadden was gone.

We all saw what he did in relief of BMac and we all felt he would get it done.

He didn't.

Whether that's a failure due to Gay himself or due to no Troy in the secondary or a combination thereof...we will probably never know.

:Clap You are sooo right. I don't remember many, if any, saying that Gay couldn't take over for McFadden. I don't think keeping McFadden would have changed how the defense has played this year. Our defense is successful when we stop the run and pressure the QB. When we don't do BOTH of those things we are very average ... and that's what we have this year. A very average defense.

(and an offense that chews up yards but doesn't score many points)

Snatch98
12-29-2009, 12:52 PM
I don't recall one person on here questioning Gay being named the starter once McFadden was gone.

We all saw what he did in relief of BMac and we all felt he would get it done.

He didn't.

Whether that's a failure due to Gay himself or due to no Troy in the secondary or a combination thereof...we will probably never know.

The defense has been a mess this year. Losing Aaron Smith impacts our LB's and losing troy has a impact on our corners and clark. I'm not prepared to throw Gay under the bus. He played very well when Mcfadden was banged up and earned the starting spot. I think with another season under his belt and some hard work in the offseason he can be whatever we need him to be....I'm watching the games every sunday just like everyone else. It's easy to blame Gay but the fact of the matter is the entire secondary is playing poorly. Lebeau's defense certainly uses Troy as it's focal point. If he's hurt the secondary struggles because so much of what they were doing day in and day out takes his ability in to consideration. Gay is good in run support and I've seen him make more than a few solid plays on the ball.

Anyway my point is simple, the entire secondary has been playing poorly. Prior to Troy going down no one was complaining. Clark was doing his thing and Ike was locking it down and Gay was at least playing good enough to not be a weakness (He's still very young) Troy goes down and the make up of our defense changes. I guess it could be Lebeau's fault for not have some sort of alternative scheme in place because Carter certainly isn't troy. Either way I'm not ready to throw anyone under the bus. Ike is still a great, physical cover corner. I don't know how many times I've read Chad Johnson say he's one of the best in the league. It's a down year for our defense, plain and simple. Gay will come around just like everyone else.

Snatch98
12-29-2009, 12:57 PM
and Mendenhall is a bum? lol What?

SteelAbility
12-29-2009, 01:43 PM
I don't recall one person on here questioning Gay being named the starter once McFadden was gone.

We all saw what he did in relief of BMac and we all felt he would get it done.

He didn't.

Whether that's a failure due to Gay himself or due to no Troy in the secondary or a combination thereof...we will probably never know.

Brothervad made a post listing Gay as having a 4.67 40 time at 184 pounds. Now, I can tell you that if I knew that, I would have been very unhappy with the suggestion that Gay be a starting CB. That's a huge physicality problem where there is neither size nor speed. It would be one thing if he gave up the size but could make for it with speed (or vice-versa). But HELL, he's conceding both categories. You got to have at least one of the two in this league to be competitive. There are DEs who can run close to a 4.67 40.
Hell a big DE might be more effective at that position as he would lose a bit of quickness, but could do a hell of job knocking receivers way off their route or just down to ground (within 5 yards) for that matter.

We have watched Gay be overmatched in both departments all year. When the other team really needs a play, they go to Gay's man. I find it very puzzling that somebody in the coaching staff couldn't see the problems with Gay coming.

RuthlessBurgher
12-29-2009, 01:52 PM
I don't recall one person on here questioning Gay being named the starter once McFadden was gone.

We all saw what he did in relief of BMac and we all felt he would get it done.

He didn't.

Whether that's a failure due to Gay himself or due to no Troy in the secondary or a combination thereof...we will probably never know.

Brothervad made a post listing Gay as having a 4.67 40 time at 184 pounds. Now, I can tell you that if I knew that, I would have been very unhappy with the suggestion that Gay be a starting CB. That's a huge physicality problem where there is neither size nor speed. It would be one thing if he gave up the size but could make for it with speed (or vice-versa). But HELL, he's conceding both categories. You got to have at least one of the two in this league to be competitive. There are DEs who can run close to a 4.67 40.
Hell a big DE might be more effective at that position as he would lose a bit of quickness, but could do a hell of job knocking receivers way off their route or just down to ground (within 5 yards) for that matter.

We have watched Gay be overmatched in both departments all year. When the other team really needs a play, they go to Gay's man. I find it very puzzling that somebody in the coaching staff couldn't see the problems with Gay coming.

Lawrence Timmons' 40 time at the combine was 4.66. Let's make him a CB. Better yet, replace Carter with Timmons at SS, and insert Fox next to Farrior at ILB.

:lol: :stirpot

SteelAbility
12-29-2009, 02:01 PM
Lawrence Timmons' 40 time at the combine was 4.66. Let's make him a CB. Better yet, replace Carter with Timmons at SS, and insert Fox next to Farrior at ILB.

:lol: :stirpot

No argument there! ;) Couldn't be much worse than Gay. Same speed but more physicality with several potential knockdowns at the LOS. I'll take that over 2nd and 2 any d*mn day. :lol:

I'm all for that too.