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fordfixer
12-28-2009, 03:51 AM
Big Ben goes on offense

By: Andrew Chiapazzi
Beaver County Times
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/sport ... fense.html (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/sports_details/article/1501/2009/december/28/big-ben-goes-on-offense.html)
Monday December 28, 2009 12:04 AM

PITTSBURGH — In Ben Roethlisberger’s mind, the numbers say it all.

For the first time in team history, the Steelers have a quarterback with more than 4,000 yards passing, a 1,000-yard rusher and a pair of 1,000-yard receivers in the same season.

That, the quarterback says, should be enough to back off critics calling for the head of offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

“I think what it does is it speaks volumes about this offense and how dynamic and potent it is,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s why I sit there and laugh when people talk about Bruce Arians and his offense. We have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. I think it’s something people should kind of lay off on about him.”

Roethlisberger is the first Steelers quarterback to go over 4,000 yards for a season, as he has 4,108 after his 259-yard performance on Sunday. But outside of using it as ammunition to defend his offensive coordinator, Roethlisberger says the achievement doesn’t hold much weight for him.

“It’s an honor, but to me it’s not about that,” he said. “It never has been the individual awards, accolades, or honors for me: It’s about this team winning.”

Roethlisberger went on to say that at this point, even the manner in which a game is won doesn’t matter for a team fighting for its playoff lives.

“We’ve been do-or-die for a while now. We fight to the last minute. I think we’re the cardiac kids or something,” Roethlisberger said. “We’re out here barely winning these games, but a win is a win. It doesn’t matter how you get it.”

This one featured Roethlisberger’s record as well as Rashard Mendenhall earning his first 1,000-rushing yard season with 36 yards on 17 carries. Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes were already over 1,000 yards receiving entering the game. This is also the first time in team history that three receivers have 70 or more receptions in a season, as Heath Miller’s three catches Sunday gave him a career-high 71. Ward has 87 and Holmes has 78 for the year.

“It’s great, statistically,” Ward said. “I won Super Bowls where we didn’t have that. This business is all about wins and losses and that’s all we really focus on. It’s something to look back and reflect on, but just because you have all that doesn’t bring a championship.”

NorthCoast
12-28-2009, 10:59 AM
Here is the numbers that count and Ben doesn't talk about:

Passing TD %
1. Drew Brees · NOR 6.6%
2. Peyton Manning · IND 6.0%
3. Brett Favre · MIN 5.9%
4. Philip Rivers · SDG 5.7%
5. Aaron Rodgers · GNB 5.6%
Eli Manning · NYG 5.6%
7. Donovan McNabb · PHI 5.4%
8. Tom Brady · NWE 5.2%
9. Kurt Warner · ARI 5.1%
10. Matt Schaub · HOU 5.0%

Notice anyone missing......? Give me back turtle ball and near-guaranteed wins when leading in the 4th quarter. Our defensive age showed this season and it is another reason for having a dominant, time-consuming run game. And don't show me TOPs, because they don't tell the whole story. Like yesterday, when the defense was on the field for almost the entire 3rd qtr.

NorthCoast
12-28-2009, 11:08 AM
I don't me to rip on Ben because he has been one of the few bright spots this season. But I hope he doesn't fall in love with his own numbers. There are things Ben can do to improve his game and simultaneously help the team win:

Adj Net Yds/Pass Att
1. Drew Brees · NOR 8.31
Philip Rivers · SDG 8.31
3. Peyton Manning · IND 7.67
4. Tony Romo · DAL 7.50
5. Tom Brady · NWE 7.49
6. Matt Schaub · HOU 7.46
7. Aaron Rodgers · GNB 7.36
8. Brett Favre · MIN 7.26
9. Eli Manning · NYG 7.10
10. Donovan McNabb · PHI 7.05

When you remove sacks, fumbles, and interceptions from the yards, Ben is not in the top 10 in the league. In other words, taking a check-down pass is better than a sack.

Steeler Mafia
12-28-2009, 11:44 AM
“I think what it does is it speaks volumes about this offense and how dynamic and potent it is,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s why I sit there and laugh when people talk about Bruce Arians and his offense. We have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. I think it’s something people should kind of lay off on about him.”

Ben are you serious? Where was your dynamic offence against KC, Oakland, or Cleveland. The problem is that this so called "Dynamic offense" becomes lethargic when it enters the red zone. I mean, you really didn't set the scoreboard on fire much there Benny boy. Keep in mind that it isn't the type of plays ran, but the time these plays are called on to be executed. That is why Arians should be shown the door. Your man love for your own OC isn't, nor should it, going to save Arians job as OC. You have been spoiled by this a$$ bag and it is long over due that you should be brought down to reality.

JDSteeler
12-28-2009, 12:37 PM
“I think what it does is it speaks volumes about this offense and how dynamic and potent it is,” Roethlisberger said. “That’s why I sit there and laugh when people talk about Bruce Arians and his offense. We have one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. I think it’s something people should kind of lay off on about him.”

Ben are you serious? Where was your dynamic offence against KC, Oakland, or Cleveland. The problem is that this so called "Dynamic offense" becomes lethargic when it enters the red zone. I mean, you really didn't set the scoreboard on fire much there Benny boy. Keep in mind that it isn't the type of plays ran, but the time these plays are called on to be executed. That is why Arians should be shown the door. Your man love for your own OC isn't, nor should it, going to save Arians job as OC. You have been spoiled by this a$$ bag and it is long over due that you should be brought down to reality.

Unbelievably dynamic, especially in the running game!!!!!!!! Yeh, right!!!

The MOLE is the most unimaginative, and predictible OC the Steelers have ever
had.

The fact that he wastes as many plays by calling that "Patented" Run Up the Middle, frustrates me to no end.

We see, first hand, how "Vanilla" he really is when it comes to the running game.

There is no lead-blocker. There is no deception, by formation or by personnel.
The play is intended to go into the SAME gap each and every time. He doesn't
even change from a hand-off, to a pitch. If he is as smart as BR says he is, than
why can't he understand that by giving the defense just a couple of different looks, either by personnel, formation, or delivery would increase the likeli-hood of a more
positive play than that of a loss of yardage.....

In my mind, The Mole, has held the offense back!!! This offense, and the weapons
we have, should be lighting it up for a minimum of 30-pts per game.

I hope Tomlin makes the right move, and brings in a guy who has the sack to attack
defenses, rather than played scared.

It appears that BEN and The MOLE are becoming too, comfy, for a lack of a better
word.

We all know what needs to be done, and that would be...

Bye Bye, BA and take that playbook of sad running plays, and non-imagination
with you.

JD

frankthetank1
12-28-2009, 12:51 PM
ben really wants BA to stay thats obvious. ben is right on about all those stats. yeah their offense is much better than its been in a while. where are the steelers ranked in the red zone? that is one of the most important stats imo. i dont care if ben takes sacks all that much, but when its in the red zone then thats unacceptable. the offense hasnt been the problem this season. i attribute this season to awful play in the secondary, inconsistent running game, red zone offense and inconsistent pass rush. BA may not be the steelers biggest problem but we can definetly do better

bostonsteeler
12-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Ben isn't the brightest bulb in the bundle, if he really believes this crap.
He's a fighter and makes plays. But he's never going to be an OC.

-B

frankthetank1
12-28-2009, 01:38 PM
Ben isn't the brightest bulb in the bundle, if he really believes this crap.
He's a fighter and makes plays. But he's never going to be an OC.

-B

im sure he just doesnt want to see BA leave. thats what i got out of it at least

Shoe
12-28-2009, 02:04 PM
im sure he just doesnt want to see BA leave. thats what i got out of it at least

So then the question is, do you appease your QB and let this coordinator stay on (and who, stat-wise, is doing a better job than a lot of others in the league). As said, we do have other areas to address.

I think you do, honestly.

Ideally, I'd like to see a more balanced offense too, but... This season has seen questions come up about Ben and his teammates. I don't want to mess with the franchise QB's psyche, etc. when he's had other players (according to media) questioning him this year. (On top of all that you have the sex case.)

You fire Ben's buddy (Arians), and who knows how he reacts.

Iron Shiek
12-28-2009, 02:06 PM
Remember Tomlin's mantra about Continuity. I don't think BA leaves (in my opinion) as much as I, and many here want him gone. Ligashesky on the other hand... :HeadBanger

Djfan
12-28-2009, 02:57 PM
Pathetic seasons bring out pathetic statements. Ben made one here.

He likes BA because he likes to play back yard football. With a real OC we would win and that is what a team is for. BA is horrible. Period. Let's see what kind of leader Tomlin is.

At this point I am on the verge of doubting Tomlin's leadership. Don't want to, but can't help it.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-28-2009, 03:12 PM
Pathetic seasons bring out pathetic statements. Ben made one here.

He likes BA because he likes to play back yard football. With a real OC we would win and that is what a team is for. BA is horrible. Period. Let's see what kind of leader Tomlin is.

At this point I am on the verge of doubting Tomlin's leadership. Don't want to, but can't help it.

Like I said in another thread, Tomlin is very inexperienced, and this sort of situation has brought down other more experienced coaches. Can't blame him for not having the skill set to set this straight right away. He's our coach, we can just hope he figures something out and acts on it soon.

Steeler Mafia
12-28-2009, 03:15 PM
im sure he just doesnt want to see BA leave. thats what i got out of it at least

So then the question is, do you appease your QB and let this coordinator stay on (and who, stat-wise, is doing a better job than a lot of others in the league). As said, we do have other areas to address.

I think you do, honestly.

Ideally, I'd like to see a more balanced offense too, but... This season has seen questions come up about Ben and his teammates. I don't want to mess with the franchise QB's psyche, etc. when he's had other players (according to media) questioning him this year. (On top of all that you have the sex case.)

You fire Ben's buddy (Arians), and who knows how he reacts.

I wouldn't care how he reacts. Let him whine, cry and throw a tantrum. Arians has spoiled Ben and it is costing this team. Ben doesn't run this team, nor does he make coaching decisions. All this talk about how "we will keep BA because Ben likes him" talk is crap. It isn't SHOWFRIENDS it is SHOWBUSINESS. Time for Ben to learn how a real NFL system is called buy a real OC and not someone who just wants to snoodle up to our young QB. I hope he is fired first thing Jan 4th. That would be the best birthday present I could ever get.

Djfan
12-28-2009, 03:19 PM
Pathetic seasons bring out pathetic statements. Ben made one here.

He likes BA because he likes to play back yard football. With a real OC we would win and that is what a team is for. BA is horrible. Period. Let's see what kind of leader Tomlin is.

At this point I am on the verge of doubting Tomlin's leadership. Don't want to, but can't help it.

Like I said in another thread, Tomlin is very inexperienced, and this sort of situation has brought down other more experienced coaches. Can't blame him for not having the skill set to set this straight right away. He's our coach, we can just hope he figures something out and acts on it soon.

I agree. Or he doesn't have the skills, which I still doubt.

At this point he needs to make changes no matter whose toes he steps on or offends. That is leadership.

brothervad
12-28-2009, 03:48 PM
Ken Anderson must hate his job...I mean this dude was the master of checkdowns. I have a feeling he is just earning a paycheck to twiddle his thumbs.

;)

brothervad

feltdizz
12-28-2009, 08:06 PM
Bens comments remind me of those guys who gushed over Cutler when he was going to the Bears with his 17-20 record but pro bowl individual stats. I want wins... screw the guady stats.

I think the Ravens showed us in the 3rd quarter why you need to run the ball.

Ben is a beast but the sacks are still making it hard on us and the lack of a fullback doesn't help either.

DukieBoy
12-28-2009, 08:38 PM
Ben gets what he wants with Arians.
We need to focus on improving our D and ST's.
These are reasons why (I think) Arians will stay.

feltdizz
12-28-2009, 09:35 PM
Ben gets what he wants with Arians.
We need to focus on improving our D and ST's.
These are reasons why (I think) Arians will stay.

you don't change OC's when the QB makes 100 million

SteelCzar76
12-29-2009, 10:27 AM
Here is the numbers that count and Ben doesn't talk about:

Passing TD %
1. Drew Brees · NOR 6.6%
2. Peyton Manning · IND 6.0%
3. Brett Favre · MIN 5.9%
4. Philip Rivers · SDG 5.7%
5. Aaron Rodgers · GNB 5.6%
Eli Manning · NYG 5.6%
7. Donovan McNabb · PHI 5.4%
8. Tom Brady · NWE 5.2%
9. Kurt Warner · ARI 5.1%
10. Matt Schaub · HOU 5.0%

Notice anyone missing......? Give me back turtle ball and near-guaranteed wins when leading in the 4th quarter. Our defensive age showed this season and it is another reason for having a dominant, time-consuming run game. And don't show me TOPs, because they don't tell the whole story. Like yesterday, when the defense was on the field for almost the entire 3rd qtr.



At least someone realize's how detrimental to the good of the team as a whole it is to continue to allow Roethlisberger to attempt to live out his Elway/Marino fantasies. (when in reality,..he's not that guy)

As it is this,..as much as BA's pop warner playbook and our lack of a punishing, consistent ground game,...that is responsible for our offensive ineptitude when it comes to scoring. (which is not new to this season)

Ben's brand of "backyard" ball,...though it almost effectively masks his defenciencies with a long field,.... does not translate well inside the 20. Why ?

Because with a short field the most important aspects of a QB's game become read/recognition/reaction skills, accuracy, timing, ball placement, intelligence and the degree of hours logged in the film room. (Or lack thereof)

frankthetank1
12-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Here is the numbers that count and Ben doesn't talk about:

Passing TD %
1. Drew Brees · NOR 6.6%
2. Peyton Manning · IND 6.0%
3. Brett Favre · MIN 5.9%
4. Philip Rivers · SDG 5.7%
5. Aaron Rodgers · GNB 5.6%
Eli Manning · NYG 5.6%
7. Donovan McNabb · PHI 5.4%
8. Tom Brady · NWE 5.2%
9. Kurt Warner · ARI 5.1%
10. Matt Schaub · HOU 5.0%

Notice anyone missing......? Give me back turtle ball and near-guaranteed wins when leading in the 4th quarter. Our defensive age showed this season and it is another reason for having a dominant, time-consuming run game. And don't show me TOPs, because they don't tell the whole story. Like yesterday, when the defense was on the field for almost the entire 3rd qtr.



At least someone realize's how detrimental to the good of the team as a whole it is to continue to allow Roethlisberger to attempt to live out his Elway/Marino fantasies. (when in reality,..he's not that guy)

As it is this,..as much as BA's pop warner playbook and our lack of a punishing, consistent ground game,...that is responsible for our offensive ineptitude when it comes to scoring. (which is not new to this season)

Ben's brand of "backyard" ball,...though it almost effictively masks his defenciencies with a long field,.... does not translate well inside the 20. Why ?

Because with a short field the most important aspects of a QB's game become read/recognition/reaction skills, accuracy, timing, ball placement, intelligence and the degree of hours logged in the film room. (Or lack thereof)

so ben is the only player responsible for the problems in the red zone? please its on the entire offense. didnt you see mendy drop a td pass? how well do the steelers run the ball in the red zone? i would think that would have something to do with it. the guy is a couple weeks removed from throwing for 500 yards against one of the better defenses in the nfl. yeah we could do a lot better at qb :roll:

Steeler Mafia
12-29-2009, 12:12 PM
How well do the steelers run the ball in the red zone?


We run the ball in the Redzone??? http://ct3.pbase.com/o6/61/114161/1/86440122.tkE42LpQ.shocker.gif

feltdizz
12-29-2009, 05:20 PM
After watching the Ravens game I understand how Ben feels... He is producing and moving the ball well... We have miscues and come up short in the redzone a times but we also put up a decent amount of points in most games....

But the D... If I'm on offense I definitely have to be upset at the D this year. I don't expect last seasons D but I expect tackles to be made and fundementals to be used.

It's like a guy who goes out and makes a million dollars and the wife spends 1.5 mill and tells him he didn't make enough last year. How the hell can we blame Ben or the efficiency when the D is sooooooooooo bad.

Djfan
12-29-2009, 05:39 PM
The whole team played poorly in the Oakland game, but the offense lost that one. How? There is NO ball control offense to rely. We took the ball with two minutes left (or thereabouts) and used up :17 second to go ahead. That is just plaing CRAPPY OFFENSIVE JUNK! It gave the Raiders too much time against a lame defense to get the job done.

Burn the clock BA. You idiot!

feltdizz
12-29-2009, 06:52 PM
The whole team played poorly in the Oakland game, but the offense lost that one. How? There is NO ball control offense to rely. We took the ball with two minutes left (or thereabouts) and used up :17 second to go ahead. That is just plaing CRAPPY OFFENSIVE JUNK! It gave the Raiders too much time against a lame defense to get the job done.

Burn the clock BA. You idiot!

yeah... Burn the clock.. Why would you give Oakland a chance to march down the field and score their 6th TD of the season in week 15? If we have to burn the clock against Oakland, KC, Cleveland and the Lions to win the season is a wrap.

When you need to onside kick with the lead it's a wrap. When you can't ge one hand on a Cutler pas when he has 26 INT's it's a wrap. Wow.... What happened to the great D? Awe... Forget about it.

stlrz d
12-29-2009, 11:11 PM
Here is the numbers that count and Ben doesn't talk about:

Passing TD %
1. Drew Brees · NOR 6.6%
2. Peyton Manning · IND 6.0%
3. Brett Favre · MIN 5.9%
4. Philip Rivers · SDG 5.7%
5. Aaron Rodgers · GNB 5.6%
Eli Manning · NYG 5.6%
7. Donovan McNabb · PHI 5.4%
8. Tom Brady · NWE 5.2%
9. Kurt Warner · ARI 5.1%
10. Matt Schaub · HOU 5.0%

Notice anyone missing......? Give me back turtle ball and near-guaranteed wins when leading in the 4th quarter. Our defensive age showed this season and it is another reason for having a dominant, time-consuming run game. And don't show me TOPs, because they don't tell the whole story. Like yesterday, when the defense was on the field for almost the entire 3rd qtr.



At least someone realize's how detrimental to the good of the team as a whole it is to continue to allow Roethlisberger to attempt to live out his Elway/Marino fantasies. (when in reality,..he's not that guy)

As it is this,..as much as BA's pop warner playbook and our lack of a punishing, consistent ground game,...that is responsible for our offensive ineptitude when it comes to scoring. (which is not new to this season)

Ben's brand of "backyard" ball,...though it almost effictively masks his defenciencies with a long field,.... does not translate well inside the 20. Why ?

Because with a short field the most important aspects of a QB's game become read/recognition/reaction skills, accuracy, timing, ball placement, intelligence and the degree of hours logged in the film room. (Or lack thereof)

^^^

LOL!

feltdizz
12-29-2009, 11:28 PM
While I will always scream for Ben to throw the ball or scream for Arians to run more..

I'm over it. The O is not losing games... The D sucks without Troy and Aaron and it's useless to demand more from BA or Ben or Mendenhall...

I watched a D let Mason run wide open and only the grace of the football gods prevented him from catching a tha pass. No amount of efficiency can stop our D from getting exposed.

NorthCoast
12-30-2009, 10:34 AM
The whole team played poorly in the Oakland game, but the offense lost that one. How? There is NO ball control offense to rely. We took the ball with two minutes left (or thereabouts) and used up :17 second to go ahead. That is just plaing CRAPPY OFFENSIVE JUNK! It gave the Raiders too much time against a lame defense to get the job done.

Burn the clock BA. You idiot!

yeah... Burn the clock.. Why would you give Oakland a chance to march down the field and score their 6th TD of the season in week 15? If we have to burn the clock against Oakland, KC, Cleveland and the Lions to win the season is a wrap.

When you need to onside kick with the lead it's a wrap. When you can't ge one hand on a Cutler pas when he has 26 INT's it's a wrap. Wow.... What happened to the great D? Awe... Forget about it.

The tide has turned. It once was a Steelers staple to use the Defense to win or close out games. Now we are asking the offense to do it and unfortunately they don't seem to have all the pieces to get it done. Why can't we asked our offense to consume half a quarter of time on the clock? We have Mendenhall as our RB and rank 22nd in the league in rushing. That is a crime. I don't know who's fault it is, maybe we have a lousy run-blocking OL, maybe Mendy can't handle the load? Our offense has been built on the 'big play' and when a defense eliminates those big plays like Cinci and Cleveland did, then we are merely mediocre in moving the ball.

SteelCzar76
12-30-2009, 11:14 AM
The whole team played poorly in the Oakland game, but the offense lost that one. How? There is NO ball control offense to rely. We took the ball with two minutes left (or thereabouts) and used up :17 second to go ahead. That is just plaing CRAPPY OFFENSIVE JUNK! It gave the Raiders too much time against a lame defense to get the job done.

Burn the clock BA. You idiot!

yeah... Burn the clock.. Why would you give Oakland a chance to march down the field and score their 6th TD of the season in week 15? If we have to burn the clock against Oakland, KC, Cleveland and the Lions to win the season is a wrap.

When you need to onside kick with the lead it's a wrap. When you can't ge one hand on a Cutler pas when he has 26 INT's it's a wrap. Wow.... What happened to the great D? Awe... Forget about it.

The tide has turned. It once was a Steelers staple to use the Defense to win or close out games. Now we are asking the offense to do it and unfortunately they don't seem to have all the pieces to get it done. Why can't we asked our offense to consume half a quarter of time on the clock? We have Mendenhall as our RB and rank 22nd in the league in rushing. That is a crime. I don't know who's fault it is, maybe we have a lousy run-blocking OL, maybe Mendy can't handle the load? Our offense has been built on the 'big play' and when a defense eliminates those big plays like Cinci and Cleveland did, then we are merely mediocre in moving the ball.


That answer as far as i'm concerned lies within what i alluded to earlier North. To me "big play" offense is another way of saying that a unit cannot effectively run a systematic, organized and professional "machine like" offense.

And why is this the case for us ? (Aside from Bruce Arians being in waaaay over his head) Because we are catering to the strengths and weaknesses of one individual as oppossed to all individuals evolving, adapting and eliminating individual shortcomings for the good of the entire unit. So that any said system can function as though it were the aforementioned "Machine".

Djfan
12-30-2009, 12:53 PM
The whole team played poorly in the Oakland game, but the offense lost that one. How? There is NO ball control offense to rely. We took the ball with two minutes left (or thereabouts) and used up :17 second to go ahead. That is just plaing CRAPPY OFFENSIVE JUNK! It gave the Raiders too much time against a lame defense to get the job done.

Burn the clock BA. You idiot!

yeah... Burn the clock.. Why would you give Oakland a chance to march down the field and score their 6th TD of the season in week 15? If we have to burn the clock against Oakland, KC, Cleveland and the Lions to win the season is a wrap.

When you need to onside kick with the lead it's a wrap. When you can't ge one hand on a Cutler pas when he has 26 INT's it's a wrap. Wow.... What happened to the great D? Awe... Forget about it.

Hey Felt,

Maybe you rely on your strengths as a team, and D is weak so you look to the O to win it all? Just a thought.

Darn LeBeau letting the offense score in :17 seconds! He should be hung!

Shoe
12-30-2009, 01:33 PM
im sure he just doesnt want to see BA leave. thats what i got out of it at least

So then the question is, do you appease your QB and let this coordinator stay on (and who, stat-wise, is doing a better job than a lot of others in the league). As said, we do have other areas to address.

I think you do, honestly.

Ideally, I'd like to see a more balanced offense too, but... This season has seen questions come up about Ben and his teammates. I don't want to mess with the franchise QB's psyche, etc. when he's had other players (according to media) questioning him this year. (On top of all that you have the sex case.)

You fire Ben's buddy (Arians), and who knows how he reacts.

I wouldn't care how he reacts. Let him whine, cry and throw a tantrum. Arians has spoiled Ben and it is costing this team. Ben doesn't run this team, nor does he make coaching decisions. All this talk about how "we will keep BA because Ben likes him" talk is crap. It isn't SHOWFRIENDS it is SHOWBUSINESS. Time for Ben to learn how a real NFL system is called buy a real OC and not someone who just wants to snoodle up to our young QB. I hope he is fired first thing Jan 4th. That would be the best birthday present I could ever get.

Hey man... I agree. We all would wish that it was that way. But the reality is that you gotta try and accomodate certain players, cuz they are that valuable. Look at the Jay Cutler situation. (putting aside what you think of him as a player; the media etc. was considering him a franchise player at the time.) I think the only reason that whole thing went sour is a lack of communication, and hurt feelings.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-30-2009, 01:50 PM
While I will always scream for Ben to throw the ball or scream for Arians to run more..

I'm over it. The O is not losing games... The D sucks without Troy and Aaron and it's useless to demand more from BA or Ben or Mendenhall...

I watched a D let Mason run wide open and only the grace of the football gods prevented him from catching a tha pass. No amount of efficiency can stop our D from getting exposed.

We are in the playoffs if our high powered offense scores more than 6 against the lowly Browns.

Last year the D was the sole reason we even made the playoffs. Without that dominant defense we sit at home just like this season. That dominant defense got older, lost McFadden and his replacement blows, lost a solid run stuffer in Foote, and lost two pro bowl players in Smith & Troy to injury. Those are some reasons why there would be a decent drop off in production for the defense. What is the offenses excuse for struggling this year?

2009 - 23 TD Passes - 4,108 yds - 479 attempts - 35 offensive TD's
2008 - 17 TD Passes - 3,301 yds - 469 attempts - 35 offensive TD's (Through 15 games)

Seems to me that the offense is the one designed to be high powered and loaded up with the higher picks and bigger paychecks, yet if our defense isn't totally dominant then we lose. We could only put up 24 points on the Chiefs who gave up scores of 38, 37, 34, 43, 44, and 41 this season?

Bottom line is we should be in the playoffs. Our defense gave up 13 points to the Cleveland Browns, and we lost. This high powered offense is ranked 13th in points per game.

BURGH86STEEL
12-30-2009, 01:50 PM
Here is the numbers that count and Ben doesn't talk about:

Passing TD %
1. Drew Brees · NOR 6.6%
2. Peyton Manning · IND 6.0%
3. Brett Favre · MIN 5.9%
4. Philip Rivers · SDG 5.7%
5. Aaron Rodgers · GNB 5.6%
Eli Manning · NYG 5.6%
7. Donovan McNabb · PHI 5.4%
8. Tom Brady · NWE 5.2%
9. Kurt Warner · ARI 5.1%
10. Matt Schaub · HOU 5.0%

Notice anyone missing......? Give me back turtle ball and near-guaranteed wins when leading in the 4th quarter. Our defensive age showed this season and it is another reason for having a dominant, time-consuming run game. And don't show me TOPs, because they don't tell the whole story. Like yesterday, when the defense was on the field for almost the entire 3rd qtr.



At least someone realize's how detrimental to the good of the team as a whole it is to continue to allow Roethlisberger to attempt to live out his Elway/Marino fantasies. (when in reality,..he's not that guy)

As it is this,..as much as BA's pop warner playbook and our lack of a punishing, consistent ground game,...that is responsible for our offensive ineptitude when it comes to scoring. (which is not new to this season)

Ben's brand of "backyard" ball,...though it almost effectively masks his defenciencies with a long field,.... does not translate well inside the 20. Why ?

Because with a short field the most important aspects of a QB's game become read/recognition/reaction skills, accuracy, timing, ball placement, intelligence and the degree of hours logged in the film room. (Or lack thereof)

Can you fault BA for designing the play book around Ben? If the play book is pop warner, it is because Ben likes those plays. For good or bad the organization made its bed with Ben.

I don't think changing the OC will change most of the issues with the offense. Unfortunately, it may take a change at OC for people to discover the real culprit or culprits of an inconsistent offense.

SteelCzar76
12-30-2009, 02:06 PM
Here is the numbers that count and Ben doesn't talk about:

Passing TD %
1. Drew Brees · NOR 6.6%
2. Peyton Manning · IND 6.0%
3. Brett Favre · MIN 5.9%
4. Philip Rivers · SDG 5.7%
5. Aaron Rodgers · GNB 5.6%
Eli Manning · NYG 5.6%
7. Donovan McNabb · PHI 5.4%
8. Tom Brady · NWE 5.2%
9. Kurt Warner · ARI 5.1%
10. Matt Schaub · HOU 5.0%

Notice anyone missing......? Give me back turtle ball and near-guaranteed wins when leading in the 4th quarter. Our defensive age showed this season and it is another reason for having a dominant, time-consuming run game. And don't show me TOPs, because they don't tell the whole story. Like yesterday, when the defense was on the field for almost the entire 3rd qtr.



At least someone realize's how detrimental to the good of the team as a whole it is to continue to allow Roethlisberger to attempt to live out his Elway/Marino fantasies. (when in reality,..he's not that guy)

As it is this,..as much as BA's pop warner playbook and our lack of a punishing, consistent ground game,...that is responsible for our offensive ineptitude when it comes to scoring. (which is not new to this season)

Ben's brand of "backyard" ball,...though it almost effectively masks his defenciencies with a long field,.... does not translate well inside the 20. Why ?

Because with a short field the most important aspects of a QB's game become read/recognition/reaction skills, accuracy, timing, ball placement, intelligence and the degree of hours logged in the film room. (Or lack thereof)

Can you fault BA for designing the play book around Ben? If the play book is pop warner, it is because Ben likes those plays. For good or bad the organization made its bed with Ben.

I don't think changing the OC will change most of the issues with the offense. Unfortunately, it may take a change at OC for people to discover the real culprit or culprits of an inconsistent offense.

Fair enough Burgh,...i agree BA's playbook may simply be a reflection of him attempting to "dumb things down" so to speak. But without any point of reference (ie: seeing him as a coordinator with an effective 'system passer') or the fact that he chooses not to employ a fullback i cannot agree 100% that he may well in fact be the answer as an OC,.....

feltdizz
12-30-2009, 06:57 PM
Mister Pittsburgh... Ben looked like trash in the Cleveland game. But one game isn't the season. 24 points should be enough to beat KC. How can you overlook our D getting walked on by the worst offenses in the league. That high powered Lions offense we could barely contain... The Raiders, KC, Chicago... Besides Ben and Hines who is making money on offense? We spend money on D and they should be held to the same standard.

RuthlessBurgher
12-30-2009, 08:02 PM
Besides Ben and Hines who is making money on offense?

Heath, Starks, Kemo, and Hartwig were all given lucrative extensions in the offseason. Although Holmes and Mendenhall have yet to hit their big paydays, they are getting first-round coin, which is nothing to sneeze at.

BURGH86STEEL
12-30-2009, 08:55 PM
Here is the numbers that count and Ben doesn't talk about:

Passing TD %
1. Drew Brees · NOR 6.6%
2. Peyton Manning · IND 6.0%
3. Brett Favre · MIN 5.9%
4. Philip Rivers · SDG 5.7%
5. Aaron Rodgers · GNB 5.6%
Eli Manning · NYG 5.6%
7. Donovan McNabb · PHI 5.4%
8. Tom Brady · NWE 5.2%
9. Kurt Warner · ARI 5.1%
10. Matt Schaub · HOU 5.0%

Notice anyone missing......? Give me back turtle ball and near-guaranteed wins when leading in the 4th quarter. Our defensive age showed this season and it is another reason for having a dominant, time-consuming run game. And don't show me TOPs, because they don't tell the whole story. Like yesterday, when the defense was on the field for almost the entire 3rd qtr.



At least someone realize's how detrimental to the good of the team as a whole it is to continue to allow Roethlisberger to attempt to live out his Elway/Marino fantasies. (when in reality,..he's not that guy)

As it is this,..as much as BA's pop warner playbook and our lack of a punishing, consistent ground game,...that is responsible for our offensive ineptitude when it comes to scoring. (which is not new to this season)

Ben's brand of "backyard" ball,...though it almost effectively masks his defenciencies with a long field,.... does not translate well inside the 20. Why ?

Because with a short field the most important aspects of a QB's game become read/recognition/reaction skills, accuracy, timing, ball placement, intelligence and the degree of hours logged in the film room. (Or lack thereof)

Can you fault BA for designing the play book around Ben? If the play book is pop warner, it is because Ben likes those plays. For good or bad the organization made its bed with Ben.

I don't think changing the OC will change most of the issues with the offense. Unfortunately, it may take a change at OC for people to discover the real culprit or culprits of an inconsistent offense.

Fair enough Burgh,...i agree BA's playbook may simply be a reflection of him attempting to "dumb things down" so to speak. But without any point of reference (ie: seeing him as a coordinator with an effective 'system passer') or the fact that he chooses not to employ a fullback i cannot agree 100% that he may well in fact be the answer as an OC,.....

I don't know if BA tried to dumb things down. We can only assume that Ben has a lot of input on the plays called. They mostly stick with the plays and formations that Ben is most comfortable running. They mentioned that they did the same with Dixon when he played.

There were times they employ a FB. One thing they don't have on the roster is a true FB. Most teams are moving away from having a true FB because of a lack of roster spots and flexibility from that position. Teams might be able to carry a roster spot for a true FB if they league extends the season and rosters.

IMO, not having a FB is all that big a deal. That more of an opinion and philosophical issue. Teams can win with or without FB's. Having a FB will not cure an inconsistent run game. Like most teams with good QB's, the Steelers are more of a pass oriented offense now. They prefer to line up with 3 WR's, 1 TE, and 1 RB most of the time to take advantage of passing weapons. Who would you rather have on the field, a Mike Wallace type of player or a Dan Krieder type of player? Most people will take the more explosive option every time.

NJ-STEELER
12-30-2009, 10:33 PM
Besides Ben and Hines who is making money on offense?

Heath, Starks, Kemo, and Hartwig were all given lucrative extensions in the offseason. Although Holmes and Mendenhall have yet to hit their big paydays, they are getting first-round coin, which is nothing to sneeze at.

kemo's and harwig's extension are probably closer to league average for starters at their positions.

its not like the D doesn't have its fair share of high priced players.

troy, harrison, casey are near the top at their positions.

smith has a high price tag as well

farrior got a rediculous extension for his age, and timmons is making 1st round coin too. when woodley's contract is up, he'll get a big contract also

the biggest mistake of the year was probably not offereing mcfadden a pretty decnt deal to what he signed with the cards.

NJ-STEELER
12-30-2009, 10:35 PM
think i saw a stat that said the raiders were averaging 10.5 points /game


somehow, it must of been the offenses fault Gradkowski went up and down the filed in the 4th quarter :roll:

RuthlessBurgher
12-30-2009, 10:45 PM
Who would you rather have on the field, a Mike Wallace type of player or a Dan Krieder type of player? Most people will take the more explosive option every time.

Most of the time, yes. But not every time. It would be great to have a solid short yardage package to get one or two yards when we need them instead of going shotgun empty backfield on 3rd and 1. A true fullback helps this. It would also help our percentage in the red zone, which is also lacking. Although a fullback would not get a ton of time in this offense, it would be worth having one available for these circumstances. Plus, fullbacks can be useful special teams players as well.

feltdizz
12-31-2009, 11:45 AM
think i saw a stat that said the raiders were averaging 10.5 points /game


somehow, it must of been the offenses fault Gradkowski went up and down the filed in the 4th quarter :roll:
:Agree

BURGH86STEEL
12-31-2009, 01:40 PM
Who would you rather have on the field, a Mike Wallace type of player or a Dan Krieder type of player? Most people will take the more explosive option every time.

Most of the time, yes. But not every time. It would be great to have a solid short yardage package to get one or two yards when we need them instead of going shotgun empty backfield on 3rd and 1. A true fullback helps this. It would also help our percentage in the red zone, which is also lacking. Although a fullback would not get a ton of time in this offense, it would be worth having one available for these circumstances. Plus, fullbacks can be useful special teams players as well.

I agree that it would be great to have a solid short yardage package. To have that some things will probably have to change. They will have to take Health and Speath off the field in those situations. Both are inconsistent blockers. Get a TE in the Bruener mold. Not sure if any of those type of TE's are around now. He was an Olinemen in a TE's body.

Sometimes the Oline does not do a good enough job in short yardage situations. I am not certain Mendenhall is a great short yardage back. Maybe Frank will be the FB or short yardage back in the future?

I think the red zone issues go beyond a FB. Maybe they need to design and work on some passing plays that Ben likes outside of the shot gun formation? Then again, would that be playing to the strengths of Ben? He seems to see the field and play better from the shot gun formation.

This is why I always get back to execution. There are so many factors to consider when talking about players, play design, and calls. As I have stated many times before, whatever they decide to do they need to execute those plays. They practice those plays time and time again.

I think it is difficult to have both a solid run game and pass game in the league today. Very few teams can maintain that balance. Sometimes teams have tough decisions to make in regards to what type of philosophy they will implement. Should the Steelers go back to a majority ground attack or should they stick with a majority passing attack?

Whatever happens going into the future with the offense won't matter if the defense does not limit big plays, get off the field on 3rd and long, create more turnovers, and make stops at the end of games.

feltdizz
12-31-2009, 02:31 PM
I don't think Heath is a great blocker but plenty of people do. Maybe I'm seeing things differently but it seems like we a lot of blown short yardage was due to players shooting the pulling OL's gap or blitzes off the edge... a ton of our short yardage plays take a long time to develope too. I would like to see man on man blocking straight ahead. If mend can't get one yard Im not sure anyone else will on our roster.

I also think it's easier to win when you have a good ground game and a great QB who can convert long 3rd downs and kill teams with play action... It's much harder to win in this league when you have a great QB and no ground game... That great Saints passing attack couldn't win when they needed to the last 2 games. When the passing attack is grounded they have nothing.

RuthlessBurgher
01-02-2010, 12:22 PM
I don't think Heath is a great blocker but plenty of people do. Maybe I'm seeing things differently but it seems like we a lot of blown short yardage was due to players shooting the pulling OL's gap or blitzes off the edge... a ton of our short yardage plays take a long time to develope too. I would like to see man on man blocking straight ahead. If mend can't get one yard Im not sure anyone else will on our roster.

I also think it's easier to win when you have a good ground game and a great QB who can convert long 3rd downs and kill teams with play action... It's much harder to win in this league when you have a great QB and no ground game... That great Saints passing attack couldn't win when they needed to the last 2 games. When the passing attack is grounded they have nothing.

For what it is worth, the Saints are a much better rushing team than we are (133 yards per game, which is 5th in the league vs. 106 yards per game for us, which is 22nd in the league).

They are simply more balanced than we are. The Saints have called 436 rushes vs. 535 passes (passing attempts + sacks). We have called 392 rushes vs. 555 passes (passing attempts + sacks). People assume that New Orleans just airs it out with Brees, but the Steelers are actually more of an aerial show while the Saints ground it out more. Weird, ain't it? Their better balance is leading them to more points (roughly 10 more points per game than us) and ultimately more wins.

feltdizz
01-02-2010, 12:38 PM
Thanks Ruthless.. didn't know that about the Saints. Weird how we scream for more balance and some use the Saints to show how a passing team succeeds.. Yet they run more then us.

I would think they were more unbalanced than us.