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View Full Version : I Hate the Shotgun Formation



SidSmythe
12-21-2009, 10:40 PM
I use to love the Shotgun formation ( on passing downs ).

Now I hate it, especially this empty backfield crap.

Is it me or are defenses getting great jumps b/c the snap count isn't traditional???
It's all timing and very predictable.

"Omaha Omaha" is a signal for example that the QB is ready for the snap or a simple leg kick, the center tips his head back up and snaps it. Edge rushers and blitzers are getting excellent jumps off the ball.

I think a QB under the center has a better advantage:
- He can use the hard count
- The threat of the run is there w/ a RB lined up in the backfield
- I believe that second the QB has to look down at the ball, wait for it to be snapped and catch the snap is a huge disadvantage to a straight drop back under center b/c his eyes are downfield at all times when under center.

stlrz d
12-21-2009, 11:05 PM
I don't like the empty backfield but I have no problems with the shotgun. QBs still use the hard count on shotgun. Sometimes they'll even stomp their foot a few times to throw a D off.

Now if you wait until 1 or 2 seconds on the clock then there's no doubt the ball is gonna be snapped soon.

DukieBoy
12-22-2009, 12:04 AM
There is no need for the empty backfield. It takes Mendy out of the game, who picks up blitzes very well and catches well out of the backfield, and remains a run threat of course. Teams are salivating when the see it and overloading a side for the blitz ... it's gonna get Ben killed.

SidSmythe
12-22-2009, 12:28 AM
There is no need for the empty backfield. It takes Mendy out of the game, who picks up blitzes very well and catches well out of the backfield, and remains a run threat of course. Teams are salivating when the see it and overloading a side for the blitz ... it's gonna get Ben killed.

The decision to keep going w/ that set should be reason enough to fire Arians. Obviously he wants to do it for whatever reason, but when it doesn't work and gets ur QB killed, then obviously you should be playing MADDEN, not be an NFL OC

sd steel
12-22-2009, 01:58 AM
I don't like the empty backfield but I have no problems with the shotgun. QBs still use the hard count on shotgun. Sometimes they'll even stomp their foot a few times to throw a D off.

Now if you wait until 1 or 2 seconds on the clock then there's no doubt the ball is gonna be snapped soon.

Thank you for sharing your indepth knowledge of the game. You are a true football genius!! You are such a tool sometimes it's scary. Please pretend like you played some more.

feltdizz
12-22-2009, 02:52 AM
There is no need for the empty backfield. It takes Mendy out of the game, who picks up blitzes very well and catches well out of the backfield, and remains a run threat of course. Teams are salivating when the see it and overloading a side for the blitz ... it's gonna get Ben killed.

The decision to keep going w/ that set should be reason enough to fire Arians. Obviously he wants to do it for whatever reason, but when it doesn't work and gets ur QB killed, then obviously you should be playing MADDEN, not be an NFL OC


:Agree the play to Moore was nice.. but that is just about the only time I have seen it work.

SteelAbility
12-22-2009, 07:23 AM
I use to love the Shotgun formation ( on passing downs ).

Now I hate it, especially this empty backfield crap.

Is it me or are defenses getting great jumps b/c the snap count isn't traditional???
It's all timing and very predictable.

"Omaha Omaha" is a signal for example that the QB is ready for the snap or a simple leg kick, the center tips his head back up and snaps it. Edge rushers and blitzers are getting excellent jumps off the ball.

I think a QB under the center has a better advantage:
- He can use the hard count
- The threat of the run is there w/ a RB lined up in the backfield
- I believe that second the QB has to look down at the ball, wait for it to be snapped and catch the snap is a huge disadvantage to a straight drop back under center b/c his eyes are downfield at all times when under center.

I don't like the empty backfield. It allows, as you said, the overload and can strain the O. It also allows the D to pretty much eliminate the run, save the QB draw. But RBs are better runners than QBs, so the run threat is still diminished.

I do like the shot-gun with a RB. Advantages:

1) QB has instant passing position (or at least in position much sooner)

2) QB is facing the D at all times. This gives the QB (if he's quick enough on his toes) the luxury of not handing off on planned runs if the RB will be stuffed. Since he's in instant passing position, he can either throw high and out of bounds in the vicinity of a receiver and prevent a yardage loss or he can just go down and prevent a fumble if a defender is in position to disrupt a handoff. If his back is to the D and the run is stuffed he doesn't know it. He hands off and the yards are lost or, worse yet, a defender who read the snap count well is in position to disrupt the handoff and cause a disastrous fumble.

I think this is one of the major ideas in the Wild Cat. The QB (or snap receiver) is facing the D at all times and can pick his running lane based on what the D does, not on "we are going to run right." I'm guessing proper Wild Cat blocking schemes afford the runner a minimum of two running directions.

3) The QB has more time to survey the passing options (as compared to a 5 or 7 step drop). This is a direct result of 1 and 2 above.

4) It makes the QB draw more effective as compared to being under center.

5) Finally, and this is very nice on 4th down. Prevent the Josh Cribbs return by lining up for a normal play. Pooch punt for 30 yards.

Both have their own advantages. It boils down to the D, the matchups and the situation.

NWNewell
12-22-2009, 09:40 AM
I don't like the empty backfield but I have no problems with the shotgun. QBs still use the hard count on shotgun. Sometimes they'll even stomp their foot a few times to throw a D off.

Now if you wait until 1 or 2 seconds on the clock then there's no doubt the ball is gonna be snapped soon.


Agreed. I don't mind the shotgun at all. And I can understand the empty set on 3rd and 10+ or in other obvious passing situations like time running out and we have a long field. But as I said, I can "understand" it. I still don't "like" it.

But I can't understand an empty set on 1st down, 2nd down, or 3rd and short situations. Why completely telegraph the pass play and leave minimal protection. It's not worth the risk at all (except MAYBE in the situations I stated above).

Never thought during last year that I'd be excited for a single back set.

stlrz d
12-22-2009, 09:42 AM
[quote="stlrz d":2ahg9whc]I don't like the empty backfield but I have no problems with the shotgun. QBs still use the hard count on shotgun. Sometimes they'll even stomp their foot a few times to throw a D off.

Now if you wait until 1 or 2 seconds on the clock then there's no doubt the ball is gonna be snapped soon.

Thank you for sharing your indepth knowledge of the game. You are a true football genius!! You are such a tool sometimes it's scary. Please pretend like you played some more.[/quote:2ahg9whc]

You've obviously never seen Manning in the shotgun. Or you're just not paying attention.

And you've obviously never noticed that Ben frequently runs the play clock right down to 1 or 2 seconds before snapping the ball so the D knows he has to snap it and they get a jump.

Have another 12 pack and post some more please. It won't make daddy love you any more, but it obviously helps you get the poison out.

phillyesq
12-22-2009, 10:48 AM
I'm among those who like the shotgun, but hate the empty backfield. The Steelers have demonstrated that they cannot get the ball out quickly enough to avoid pressure in empty backfield situations. And, as others have mentioned, it completely eliminates even the threat of the run.

One thing I miss out of the shotgun are the inside shovel passes that the Steelers used to run to Ward and ARE. I don't want to see the Steelers go to a gimmick offense, but I'd like to see some creativity mixed in from time to time.

NorthCoast
12-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Maybe I am still in the NFL 'dark ages' but I have been wondering about a lot of the plays that used to work quite well. What ever happened to trapping on runs? or mis-directions with counter pitches? We hardly even see draw plays any more. Maybe the NFL is just a fad-dy place. Maybe defenses are now too smart and too fast for these plays to work? Maybe those coaches that knew how to make those plays work are retired or dead?.....