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steelz09
12-20-2009, 08:29 PM
A Tomlin firing? I mean seriously, that call makes no sense and the announcers have made that very clear as well. That is one of the worst coaching decisions this year.

It's basically giving up on the defense and giving up on the season. I know the playoffs are a long shot, but it's impossible if you make coaching decisions like that. I expect a team that has 1, 2, 3 wins to do something that desperate. Not a team that could potentially have a shot at the playoffs if the chips fell right.

Shoe
12-20-2009, 08:32 PM
Firing? Get real.

It is obviously a very dubious call. No doubt.
To explain his thinking though (partially): he knows his coverage blows. He also, more importantly, knows his kicker can't kick it anywhere near the endzone. He may have factored in that GB's PK blows...

I grant you that there is no debate--bad call. But you can't fire him for that.

msp26505
12-20-2009, 08:36 PM
I couldn't agree less.

It was a desperate call because Tomlin KNEW, as did everyone watching, that there was exactly ZERO chance that the defense would stop the Packers.

If Ike is not so damn stupid and waits one second, he has a clean recovery.

At least this way the offense gets the ball back.

steelz09
12-20-2009, 08:45 PM
I know the logic ... but that's fuzzy logic at best.

"You Play to Win the Game"!

That's not playing to win the game. That's what teams with nothing to lose (desperate) do.

msp26505
12-20-2009, 08:54 PM
I know the logic ... but that's fuzzy logic at best.

"You Play to Win the Game"!

That's not playing to win the game. That's what teams with nothing to lose (desperate) do.

If Ike makes the play it's as brilliant as Cowher's (Bobby April's) onside in SB XXX.

For me, it's on Ike.

drprwnap
12-20-2009, 08:59 PM
No. It does warrent his feet being held to the fire for that STUPID call. He better learn from this. I thought he was smarter than that.

stlrz d
12-20-2009, 09:02 PM
I've seen it twice now so I'm sorry but I can't help it.

It's "warrant" not "warrent".

Like was said above, if Ike waits a fraction of a second longer it's a great call.

Steelgal
12-20-2009, 09:03 PM
Don't agree with the call, but he shouldn't be fired over it. I think this just proves Tomlin has 0 faith in the D, as already suggested.

grotonsteel
12-20-2009, 09:05 PM
I couldn't agree less.

It was a desperate call because Tomlin KNEW, as did everyone watching, that there was exactly ZERO chance that the defense would stop the Packers.

If Ike is not so damn stupid and waits one second, he has a clean recovery.

At least this way the offense gets the ball back.

It was an excellent call. Mike Tomlin knows defense sucks.

Steelers can go as far as Big Ben want to take them.

Big Ben is Steelers MVP....... :Bow :Bow :Bow :Bow :Bow :Bow :Bow :Bow

Defense sucks........!!!!!!!!!!

Ryan Clark you deserve to be called in media...eat your words....jackarse...

Starlifter
12-20-2009, 09:06 PM
I mean really. was there any doubt GB would score a TD? The only thing uncertain was if we would have 2 minutes to run our offense or 17 seconds to go 80 yards. Total indictment of Tomlin towards the D. Complete (and justified) lack of confidence.

Glad we stopped the skid but let's not kid ourselves. Unless Troy is back and completely healthy plus a few other folks step up, this defense ain't taking us anywhere but one and done.

Starlifter
12-20-2009, 09:07 PM
Tomlin has already seen our defense give up scores with 2 minutes to go in the game several times this year. I think he decided to turn the tables so we would actually have 2 minutes to win. Brilliant!!!

brothervad
12-20-2009, 09:07 PM
playing Devil's advocate here:

Would the D have stopped this team if it went to the 35 yard line of GB? Hell no

In fact, there would've been no time left on the clock for Pgh to do anything which is what we have seen several times this season.

It is obvious that the Steelers brain trust has no answers on the D side of the ball.

It is apparent without Troy, this team will not go very far

It is apparent there will be big changes on the D side of the ball...especially the secondary

Was it a stupid call? yes

Was it a desperate call? yes

should he be fired? No

Should we fire bad word Lebeau cause his defense has sucked all year? if you say no because of his body of work then you have to provide the same answer for Tomlin

brothervad

grotonsteel
12-20-2009, 09:08 PM
I mean really. was there any doubt GB would score a TD? The only thing uncertain was if we would have 2 minutes to run our offense or 17 seconds to go 80 yards. Total indictment of Tomlin towards the D. Complete (and justified) lack of confidence.

Glad we stopped the skid but let's not kid ourselves. Unless Troy is back and completely healthy plus a few other folks step up, this defense ain't taking us anywhere but one and done.

I agree...Tomlin does not trust his defensive unit...

msp26505
12-20-2009, 09:09 PM
I was going to start this thread myself.

It was a desperate move because Tomlin (along with every person watching) knew that there was ZERO chance that this sieve of a defense would keep the Packers from at least kicking a field goal.

At least this way, the offense got the ball back. Had they kicked deep, the Packers would have had the ball for the rest of the game and kicked the game winner as time expired.

The only problem is that Ike Taylor has an IQ of about 70. If he waits another half second, he recovers it past the 40.

When Cowher (and by Cowher, I mean Bobby April) did it in SB XXX, it was a great call.

The announcers haven't followed the Steelers enough to understand the depth of the problems on the Steeler defense.

The onside kick call won the game because it bought us time.

feltdizz
12-20-2009, 09:10 PM
Gutsy call... But after 5 losses by defensive collapses Tomlin gambled and the execution was perfect. Ike hasn't caught a thing ALL year and does the unthinkable. I truly believe our DB's are among the dumbest in the league outside of Troy of course.

RussBII
12-20-2009, 09:11 PM
I have zero problems with this call.

He said he was gonna be aggressive (albeit 3 or 4 weeks ago) and he finally was. It worked out...

<whew>

steelsnis
12-20-2009, 09:11 PM
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Based on the way this D has played in the 4th quarter all season long, why wouldn't you think that Reed would kick off to the 15-yd line, the Packers return it to the 43, milk the clock and score with like 34 seconds left?

Not a terrible call, IMO. Totally caught GB off guard and if Ike waits half-a-second longer it's a brilliant call.

Anyway, the point is moot now after that amazing pitch and catch btwn Ben and Wallace. People that hate Tomlin (LVG, jhansle, SteelerShades, etc) will use this as a call for his firing.

Others will concentrate on trying to get into the playoffs! Count me in with the latter group!

Va Steelr
12-20-2009, 09:12 PM
I agree,but at least we got a win and showed a little heart! Obviously,there is still
a lot of work to do! :Cheers :tt1

Va Steelr
12-20-2009, 09:13 PM
I agree,but at least we got a win and showed a little heart! Obviously,there is still
a lot of work to do! :Cheers :tt1

Snatch98
12-20-2009, 09:13 PM
lol a firing? if you ask me that call gave us a chance to win the game.

1. If Ike Taylor let the ball carry another yard he could have recovered the ball the required 10 yards. The packers weren't at all ready for it and Reed kicked it perfectly. Ike jumped the gun a bit and got a penalty. Everyone, including the announcers atre acting like Tomlin just lost the game at this point. Wrong

the entire time I'm thinking alright we nearly recovered that, had ike recovered Tomlin is the hero. Ike didn't recover it and now people are going to say he needs fired...a ridiculous notion.

2. Gb gets the shortened field and seeing as how our defense is having trouble stopping rodgers on 3rd down they maybe go down and score a TD or get a FG and are up one point with Big Ben getting the ball back in his hand.

How many games this year have we got the ball back this year with next to no time on the clock, only to toss a few hail mary's and lose? Big Ben got the ball back with 2 minutes left and a time out and the chance to win the game. Had we kicked off there is a good chance our defense doesn't stop GB and Big Ben has less time to do what he does best. It was a calculated gamble and certainly a call worth making. Once again it was almost recovered and Ben got the ball back with ample amount of time to do what he does best. That gamble allowed us to WIN THE GAME. Ben was obviously moving the ball with the offense....503 yards and 3 td's. I'd rather put the game on our offense and Tomlin did and we won.

Fired? LMAO. F.ucking retarded.

JTP53609
12-20-2009, 09:14 PM
i agree 100%, i callled it .....had we kicked off they would have scored with uner a minute left...no doubt about it...

RussBII
12-20-2009, 09:14 PM
Desperate times call for desperate measures.


M-m-m-m-money.

proudpittsburgher
12-20-2009, 09:15 PM
come on guys. Many on here hold Tomlin to the fire for the defense choking up leads and people all get on him to do something about it. Well he did, and if Ike lets the ball roll we get the ball back. Some of you are never going to be happy. And if you want him fired for oen mediocre season out of three, well, then, that's a you problem.

Shoe
12-20-2009, 09:15 PM
It is because we have TWO GLARING WEAKNESSES (both of which are a product of Polamalu's absence). Gay and Carter are about as inept as you can get.

feltdizz
12-20-2009, 09:16 PM
Bvad how was it a bad call if we lost 5 games due to the D and we gave up countless 3rd and longs and 14 points in the 4th today?

If Ike waits for one more yard it's genius. I really do not like Ike this year.

stlrz d
12-20-2009, 09:17 PM
Can we combine the two treads on the same topic please?

I am getting dizzy trying to keep up!

Wolfhound45
12-20-2009, 09:17 PM
Bottom line, the way this defense is playing right now, you have to use strategy like they used in the Arena Football League. Basically, whoever has the ball last, wins. I hate the call but it was the only call he could make.

Look at it the other way. He could have been saying to his defense "I trust you to get the stop." See what happened? Not a FG but a TOUCHDOWN!

Again, the only call he could make with that defensive unit playing like it has been.

Shoe
12-20-2009, 09:19 PM
HAHA.

I never thought of it like that, but you are probably right. You still can't make that call though IMO.

It's like hitting a hard 17 in blackjack--you just can't do it man. :wink:

feltdizz
12-20-2009, 09:19 PM
It is because we have TWO GLARING WEAKNESSES (both of which are a product of Polamalu's absence). Gay and Carter are about as inept as you can get.
Carter sucks... Gay Is bad but being his first year starting I can see understand.

Carter on the other hand has ZERO football skills... How do you consistently let
players run by you

msp26505
12-20-2009, 09:20 PM
Should we fire bad word Lebeau cause his defense has sucked all year? if you say no because of his body of work then you have to provide the same answer for Tomlin

What a ridiculous notion.

Tomlin has coached for three years. He inherited a team that missed the playoffs the year before his arrival and has taken that team to two playoff appearances and a Super Bowl win.

Just like Lebeau, Tomlin's body of work speaks for itself.

Snatch98
12-20-2009, 09:20 PM
I'm glad I'm not alone. I didn't read anything but the first post before making my own. I thought it was a great call the ONLY reason Big Ben had a chance to win the game. I'll take Big Ben when he's on with 2 minutes left and a timeout ANY DAY OF THE WEEK! Tomlin gave us a chance to win. Brilliant call is correct.

Starlifter
12-20-2009, 09:22 PM
let's also remember our defense had to stop them completely. all GB needed was a FG. yeah, no shock they scored 6 but I'm sure Tomlin was thinking to let them get their 3 quick and that would give us a couple of minutes to get back in FG range to win it.

costanza2k1
12-20-2009, 09:22 PM
The call rocked...when you have a sorry defense the Packers would've driven all the way down (just like every other game we lost in the last seconds this year) and scored leaving us no time. If we recover great if not we still have time to initiate and execute Big Ben's magic. Bow down people

brothervad
12-20-2009, 09:22 PM
Bvad how was it a bad call if we lost 5 games due to the D and we gave up countless 3rd and longs and 14 points in the 4th today?

If Ike waits for one more yard it's genius. I really do not like Ike this year.

Felt, what I am saying, is in normal situations it is a horrible call--but if you read my post you will see that my thoughts on this are that Tomlin had little choice.

I believe Tomlin has no faith in the D, and it's apparent that they have no adjustments to make. They cannot win with this D having the ball.

But under normal circumstance being up 2, giving a high potent offense 1/2 the field to work on, is not a good call.

Not sure if I mistated my post, or if you are mis-reading it.

brothervad

Snatch98
12-20-2009, 09:24 PM
HAHA.

I never thought of it like that, but you are probably right. You still can't make that call though IMO.

It's like hitting a hard 17 in blackjack--you just can't do it man. :wink:

What? It was the ONLY call to make at that point and one no one thought of but Tomlin and his coaching staff. If he doesn't kick it onside Ben has less time to do what Ben does best and thats win football games. You CAN'T say you CAN'T make that call when that call allowed us to WIN THE GAME. Period. It's unarguable if you ask me. The defense wasn't stopping anyone, better stated the defensive secondary. Tomlin gave ben the time he needed. End of story.

brothervad
12-20-2009, 09:25 PM
Should we fire bad word Lebeau cause his defense has sucked all year? if you say no because of his body of work then you have to provide the same answer for Tomlin

What a ridiculous notion.

Tomlin has coached for three years. He inherited a team that missed the playoffs the year before his arrival and has taken that team to two playoff appearances and a Super Bowl win.

Just like Lebeau, Tomlin's body of work speaks for itself.

so a first year playoff and 2nd year SB victory mean nothing for Tomlin huh? Yeah nothing on gameday during the past 2 seasons can be attributed to Tomlin at all.

My point is you don't fire a dude for one bad call....and the truth is given the D it's not a ridiculous as you want to make it.

brothervad

Flasteel
12-20-2009, 09:31 PM
I was going to start this thread myself.

It was a desperate move because Tomlin (along with every person watching) knew that there was ZERO chance that this sieve of a defense would keep the Packers from at least kicking a field goal.

At least this way, the offense got the ball back. Had they kicked deep, the Packers would have had the ball for the rest of the game and kicked the game winner as time expired.

The only problem is that Ike Taylor has an IQ of about 70. If he waits another half second, he recovers it past the 40.

When Cowher (and by Cowher, I mean Bobby April) did it in SB XXX, it was a great call.

The announcers haven't followed the Steelers enough to understand the depth of the problems on the Steeler defense.

The onside kick call won the game because it bought us time.

Almost word for word what I contemplated posting on the way home. Buck had zero idea of how off-base he was in questioning the call repeatedly. It was the only move we could have made, 'cause Green Bat was going to score no matter what.

It must be stated how pathetically stupid Ike Taylor is however. He's practically staring at the yard strip he needs to get to and decides to grab the ball instead of hit the guy moving in to cover it...simply retarded. I'm all for getting rid of both he and Gay in the offseason.

Snatch98
12-20-2009, 09:31 PM
HAHA.

I never thought of it like that, but you are probably right. You still can't make that call though IMO.

It's like hitting a hard 17 in blackjack--you just can't do it man. :wink:

What? It was the ONLY call to make at that point and one no one thought of but Tomlin and his coaching staff. If he doesn't kick it onside Ben has less time to do what Ben does best and thats win football games. You CAN'T say you CAN'T make that call when that call allowed us to WIN THE GAME. Period. It's unarguable if you ask me. The defense wasn't stopping anyone, better stated the defensive secondary. Tomlin gave ben the time he needed. End of story.

msp26505
12-20-2009, 09:31 PM
Should we fire bad word Lebeau cause his defense has sucked all year? if you say no because of his body of work then you have to provide the same answer for Tomlin

What a ridiculous notion.

Tomlin has coached for three years. He inherited a team that missed the playoffs the year before his arrival and has taken that team to two playoff appearances and a Super Bowl win.

Just like Lebeau, Tomlin's body of work speaks for itself.

so a first year playoff and 2nd year SB victory mean nothing for Tomlin huh? Yeah nothing on gameday during the past 2 seasons can be attributed to Tomlin at all.

My point is you don't fire a dude for one bad call....and the truth is given the D it's not a ridiculous as you want to make it.

brothervad

Somewhere along the line I think we got our signals crossed.

I'm saying that Tomlin in no way, shape or form deserves to be fired.

Losing makes us all a little crazy. :Cheers

msp26505
12-20-2009, 09:31 PM
Should we fire bad word Lebeau cause his defense has sucked all year? if you say no because of his body of work then you have to provide the same answer for Tomlin

What a ridiculous notion.

Tomlin has coached for three years. He inherited a team that missed the playoffs the year before his arrival and has taken that team to two playoff appearances and a Super Bowl win.

Just like Lebeau, Tomlin's body of work speaks for itself.

so a first year playoff and 2nd year SB victory mean nothing for Tomlin huh? Yeah nothing on gameday during the past 2 seasons can be attributed to Tomlin at all.

My point is you don't fire a dude for one bad call....and the truth is given the D it's not a ridiculous as you want to make it.

brothervad

Somewhere along the line I think we got our signals crossed.

I'm saying that Tomlin in no way, shape or form deserves to be fired.

Losing makes us all a little crazy. :Cheers

Wolfhound45
12-20-2009, 09:32 PM
Seriously, considering the past five weeks, what would you prefer?

1 - Our defense on the field, with 3:58 left, protecting a two point lead? Keep in mind, we are not even sure what kind of field position the Packers would have had even if we had kicked it away.

2 - Our offense on the field, down by one (best case scenario) or six (worst case scenario) with 2:06 and two timeouts.

The choice is obvious.

kindlecatsb'ng
12-20-2009, 09:33 PM
casey hampton said the D knew that Tomlin didn't think they could contain GB when calling this play in the postgame interview.

Happy Holidays now!

brothervad
12-20-2009, 09:35 PM
Should we fire bad word Lebeau cause his defense has sucked all year? if you say no because of his body of work then you have to provide the same answer for Tomlin

What a ridiculous notion.

Tomlin has coached for three years. He inherited a team that missed the playoffs the year before his arrival and has taken that team to two playoff appearances and a Super Bowl win.

Just like Lebeau, Tomlin's body of work speaks for itself.

so a first year playoff and 2nd year SB victory mean nothing for Tomlin huh? Yeah nothing on gameday during the past 2 seasons can be attributed to Tomlin at all.

My point is you don't fire a dude for one bad call....and the truth is given the D it's not a ridiculous as you want to make it.

brothervad

Somewhere along the line I think we got our signals crossed.

I'm saying that Tomlin in no way, shape or form deserves to be fired.

Losing makes us all a little crazy. :Cheers

It's all good...I was just saying anyone who says you should fire Tomlin...should at least be consistent. I am not one of those guys, however.

brothervad

RussBII
12-20-2009, 09:36 PM
casey hampton said the D knew that Tomlin didn't think they could contain GB when calling this play in the postgame interview.

Happy Holidays now!


In no way can the defense be "offended" at this call. Five 4th quarter leads lost (6 if you count the fact that we had two leads on the raiders.) The defense, specifically the secondary is _not_, repeat _not_, getting the job done.

I still think it might be a conditioning issue.

DukieBoy
12-20-2009, 09:40 PM
By quarter in games played this year, we have given up these points, by my count:

1st: 42
2nd: 65
3rd: 49
4th (+OT): 124

Some of the points are on the ST's, and a little on the O, of course. But our D has been about helpless in some 4th quarters, gave up 22 in the 4th, including the short field after the onsides kickoff, had no answer whatsoever to cover Finley.

I liked the on-sides kick call. I believe the Pack would have scored, gone ahead, and we'd have no time to respond. Our O was dominating their D, so I favored giving the O the best chance we would have to win the game, whether by recovering the onsides kick and scoring again, or by having some time left on the clock after the Pack's possession.

costanza2k1
12-20-2009, 09:40 PM
Merged like discussions...

papillon
12-20-2009, 09:48 PM
It's a good call and here's why.

1) If the Steelers don't recover it the onside kick the Packers have a short field and will leave the Steelers plenty of time to win the game (that's what happened).

2) If the Steelers recover the games basically over (If Ike waits this scenario plays out)

3) If the Steelers kick it deep and the Pack runs it to the 30 they will score and milk the clock leaving no time for Ben and the offense.

I like the play and the thinking behind it in retrospect.

Pappy

NorthCoast
12-20-2009, 09:49 PM
Count me in the group that agrees with the call (well, at least I don't disagree).

As others have pointed out, it gave Ben a little clock to work with because I had NO DOUBT the defense would have allowed GB to eat clock and possibly score again with no time left.

It was actually a pretty gutsy call and I don't think I could have made that one.

msp26505
12-20-2009, 09:51 PM
As much as the notion of it makes me cringe, this call is a little similar to Holmgren's call in SB XXXII.

He let Denver score late to get the ball back into Favre's hands because otherwise he would have run out of time. There was about a 98% chance of them scoring anyway, and being down a field goal with :02 remaining was worse than being down a TD with 1:00 remaining. (I'm going from memory here, so my times are probably wrong.)

Anybody who argues that you "don't make that call at any time" is too stubborn to realize that you MUST play the odds if you want to have a chance to win. It's like pulling the goalie in hockey.

Had they not kicked the onside kick, the final score would have been either 31 or 36 to 30 GB.

flippy
12-21-2009, 01:30 AM
That was the exact call I wanted right before it happened. I was surprised it played out just like I hoped it would.

I knew we either had to get the ball or let them score quickly so that Ben was on the field to win it in the end. That was our best chance. And I'm so happy Mike Tomlin played for our best chance of winning this game.

sd steel
12-21-2009, 03:43 AM
I was going to start this thread myself.

It was a desperate move because Tomlin (along with every person watching) knew that there was ZERO chance that this sieve of a defense would keep the Packers from at least kicking a field goal.

At least this way, the offense got the ball back. Had they kicked deep, the Packers would have had the ball for the rest of the game and kicked the game winner as time expired.

The only problem is that Ike Taylor has an IQ of about 70. If he waits another half second, he recovers it past the 40.

When Cowher (and by Cowher, I mean Bobby April) did it in SB XXX, it was a great call.

The announcers haven't followed the Steelers enough to understand the depth of the problems on the Steeler defense.

The onside kick call won the game because it bought us time.

Great post, and great call by Tomlin. I called it myself, and if Ike doesn't screw up it's pure genius! BTW get rid of T. Carter!

DukieBoy
12-21-2009, 08:36 AM
This article is interesting.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/12 ... nside.html (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/12/should-steelers-have-kicked-onside.html)

BURGH86STEEL
12-21-2009, 08:47 AM
I know the logic ... but that's fuzzy logic at best.

"You Play to Win the Game"!

That's not playing to win the game. That's what teams with nothing to lose (desperate) do.

What did the Steelers have to lose at that point? I know they gained 2 minutes on the clock with that decision.

I don't think Tomlin should be fired over one call.

Oviedo
12-21-2009, 09:05 AM
Totally smart call. As pointed out, the defense wasn't, yet again, stopping the Green Bay passing game. Less than a yard from being perfectly executed. Let's also not forget that it is just as much a gamble relying on our coverage team not to give up a huge return.

I think the call indicates that Tomlin knows there is something systemically wrong with our pass defense AND our coverage teams. IMO in both cases it is schematic and personnel and that can't be fixed mid season but it will be after the season.

frankthetank1
12-21-2009, 09:14 AM
It is because we have TWO GLARING WEAKNESSES (both of which are a product of Polamalu's absence). Gay and Carter are about as inept as you can get.
Carter sucks... Gay Is bad but being his first year starting I can see understand.

Carter on the other hand has ZERO football skills... How do you consistently let
players run by you

carter does suck but at least he can tackle. gay cant even tackle!! how do you consistently let a wr make catch right in front of you? does willie gay play in sneakers? i dont recall seeing a player lose his footing as much as gay does. he looks like me trying to skate

frankthetank1
12-21-2009, 09:20 AM
I know the logic ... but that's fuzzy logic at best.

"You Play to Win the Game"!

That's not playing to win the game. That's what teams with nothing to lose (desperate) do.

What did the Steelers have to lose at that point? I know they gained 2 minutes on the clock with that decision.

I don't think Tomlin should be fired over one call.

it was an awful call but fired? that is a little drastic. i recall cowher's steelers kicking an onside kick to start the 2nd half in the 95 sb. yeah it worked but if it didnt its just as bad of a call

Mister Pittsburgh
12-21-2009, 09:42 AM
I actually don't mind the call. We sealed their two players so all Ike had to do was let it go one more yard. I think the odds warrent doing it and it was the correct gamble. Tomlin could either gamble and his outcomes could be A) We get the ball with 3 minutes left to wear down the clock more and hopefully score which we had been moving the ball well against them, B) The recover with 3 minutes to go on a short field so if our D holds them at mid field they punt and we get the ball back or if they score they had been tearing us a new one with bigger passing plays so it wouldn't have taken very long so plenty of clock to get something going on offense.

The way we had been playing D in the fourth I understand his logic and don't think at that point it is killer. It did catch them off guard as planned and all Ike had to do was let it go one more yard. I am surprised he caught it.

stlrz d
12-21-2009, 09:53 AM
It was a great, gutsy call.

NorthCoast
12-21-2009, 10:08 AM
I know the logic ... but that's fuzzy logic at best.

"You Play to Win the Game"!

That's not playing to win the game. That's what teams with nothing to lose (desperate) do.

What did the Steelers have to lose at that point? I know they gained 2 minutes on the clock with that decision.

I don't think Tomlin should be fired over one call.

it was an awful call but fired? that is a little drastic. i recall cowher's steelers kicking an onside kick to start the 2nd half in the 95 sb. yeah it worked but if it didnt its just as bad of a call


Frank and others, I would sure like to hear your explanation on why it was "an awful call". And please do not use the phrase "got to trust your defense" in your answer because we all know that is a misguided judgement based on how they were playing in this game (and a few of the other losses as well).

Waiting for a cogent explanation................

Mister Pittsburgh
12-21-2009, 10:12 AM
Basically he set up a defining moment and made a statement to his defense. They didn't 'answer the bell' so to speak. They let the Green Bay offense march right down the field on them.

All Tomlin did was secure that his offense would get the ball to end the game instead of giving Green Bay more distance to cover to eat up more clock. It was the defense that let them score from the shorter distance. They could have stood up and made a play to hold them to 3 and out. They didn't.

frankthetank1
12-21-2009, 10:14 AM
I know the logic ... but that's fuzzy logic at best.

"You Play to Win the Game"!

That's not playing to win the game. That's what teams with nothing to lose (desperate) do.

What did the Steelers have to lose at that point? I know they gained 2 minutes on the clock with that decision.

I don't think Tomlin should be fired over one call.

it was an awful call but fired? that is a little drastic. i recall cowher's steelers kicking an onside kick to start the 2nd half in the 95 sb. yeah it worked but if it didnt its just as bad of a call


Frank and others, I would sure like to hear your explanation on why it was "an awful call". And please do not use the phrase "got to trust your defense" in your answer because we all know that is a misguided judgement based on how they were playing in this game (and a few of the other losses as well).

Waiting for a cogent explanation................

i take it back it wasnt an awful call. even with the poor defense i dont like giving a very good offense a short field. if they were up by a td it would make more sense but they werent. the smart thing about the call is it put the game in the offense's hands.

anger 82&amp;95
12-21-2009, 10:34 AM
Gutsy call... But after 5 losses by defensive collapses Tomlin gambled and the execution was perfect. Ike hasn't caught a thing ALL year and does the unthinkable. I truly believe our DB's are among the dumbest in the league outside of Troy of course.I'm not sure if I am the most surprised by the call itself, how close it was to working, or that Ike actually caught a football while employed as a Steeler.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Right call period. This was a shoot-out game and the Steelers D showed no signs of stopping the Packers. The onside kick gave the Steelers 2 chances. Recover and run out the clock...Or shorten the field for the Packers and if they score it's early. Plus the fact that the kicker was struggling. A TD didn't change the posession count so it was the right call. Anouncers can questions it...Gives them something to talk about. If they didn't question the call...Play the game call in your head. "Crickets" wouldn't be good for their career. Game anouncers always side on the side of percentages to cover their a$$. If it works, they praise the decision. If it doesn't, they drill the fact they were right.

Slapstick
12-21-2009, 10:41 AM
Out-freakin'-standing call!! Tomlin deserves a raise...

Ike Taylor, on the other hand...

MeetJoeGreene
12-21-2009, 10:45 AM
I couldn't agree less.

It was a desperate call because Tomlin KNEW, as did everyone watching, that there was exactly ZERO chance that the defense would stop the Packers.

If Ike is not so damn stupid and waits one second, he has a clean recovery.

At least this way the offense gets the ball back.

Yup. He still would have had it. carey davis was straddling the 10 yard line... he had the right idea. Ike probably just can't count to 10

cruzer8
12-21-2009, 11:02 AM
Loved the call!

BDESteel
12-21-2009, 12:34 PM
IMO, it was the short kick off before the onside kick that deserves the most scrutiny. We score 37 points and almost lose!! That's just crazy. Is there any possibility for Troy to come back against the Ratbirds? Please Troy, please get healthy fast. I can't take anymore of the circus clown act we're getting out of your colleagues.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-21-2009, 01:13 PM
Gutsy call... But after 5 losses by defensive collapses Tomlin gambled and the execution was perfect. Ike hasn't caught a thing ALL year and does the unthinkable. I truly believe our DB's are among the dumbest in the league outside of Troy of course.I'm not sure if I am the most surprised by the call itself, how close it was to working, or that Ike actually caught a football while employed as a Steeler.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Same thing I told my wife..."Let's not be too hard on Ike, it's the first ball he's caught all year!"

NWNewell
12-21-2009, 03:48 PM
Like was said above, if Ike waits a fraction of a second longer it's a great call.

... or if the back up plan for that scenario works out successfully by the offense being able to counter punch in the 2 minute drill successfully when the Packers scoring quickly, it's a great call.

frankthetank1
12-21-2009, 04:18 PM
IMO, it was the short kick off before the onside kick that deserves the most scrutiny. We score 37 points and almost lose!! That's just crazy. Is there any possibility for Troy to come back against the Ratbirds? Please Troy, please get healthy fast. I can't take anymore of the circus clown act we're getting out of your colleagues.

oh man how did i forget about that kick? that was much worse than an onside kick. it was a difference of what 15 yards? at least ike had a shot of recovering the onside kick. that short pop up was a horrid kick. reed has one touchback all season. there needs to be a change made on kick offs

Steelerphile
12-21-2009, 05:37 PM
It was a great call. Anybody who says it was stupid is a brain-dead kneejerk ultraconservative.

Oviedo
12-21-2009, 06:20 PM
IMO, it was the short kick off before the onside kick that deserves the most scrutiny. We score 37 points and almost lose!! That's just crazy. Is there any possibility for Troy to come back against the Ratbirds? Please Troy, please get healthy fast. I can't take anymore of the circus clown act we're getting out of your colleagues.

Troy is out for the season. he is too valuable to risk aditional damage or a reinjury to his knee that would require surgery. Surgery would set him back a year and then we are screwed next season too.

stlrz d
12-21-2009, 09:58 PM
IMO, it was the short kick off before the onside kick that deserves the most scrutiny. We score 37 points and almost lose!! That's just crazy. Is there any possibility for Troy to come back against the Ratbirds? Please Troy, please get healthy fast. I can't take anymore of the circus clown act we're getting out of your colleagues.

oh man how did i forget about that kick? that was much worse than an onside kick. it was a difference of what 15 yards? at least ike had a shot of recovering the onside kick. that short pop up was a horrid kick. reed has one touchback all season. there needs to be a change made on kick offs

I believe Tomlin addressed that in his presser and said they did it intentionally to try and prevent a return.

WaGgin74
12-21-2009, 10:34 PM
After sleeping on it and waking up feeling great it was a great call that a lot of people would not have the guts to make. Simply for the fact of Tomlin taking the game out of the defenses hand. What has the "D" done all year to make you think otherwise. Didn't like it at the time because of the element of surprise and the eeb and flow of the game. You know caught up in the moment happy to have a lead type of thing. I'm happy he wasn't caught in the moment and went with his guts. Defense has sold us all year in the 4th quarter and it probably would have fell that way again when you think about it.

feltdizz
12-21-2009, 10:35 PM
IMO, it was the short kick off before the onside kick that deserves the most scrutiny. We score 37 points and almost lose!! That's just crazy. Is there any possibility for Troy to come back against the Ratbirds? Please Troy, please get healthy fast. I can't take anymore of the circus clown act we're getting out of your colleagues.

oh man how did i forget about that kick? that was much worse than an onside kick. it was a difference of what 15 yards? at least ike had a shot of recovering the onside kick. that short pop up was a horrid kick. reed has one touchback all season. there needs to be a change made on kick offs

the fans booed!!! So did I... I also don't cheer our TD's until after KO's...so I understand the concern with ST's and D late in the 4th!

BradshawsHairdresser
12-22-2009, 01:17 AM
IMO, it was the short kick off before the onside kick that deserves the most scrutiny. We score 37 points and almost lose!! That's just crazy. Is there any possibility for Troy to come back against the Ratbirds? Please Troy, please get healthy fast. I can't take anymore of the circus clown act we're getting out of your colleagues.

Troy is out for the season.

Do you have an official statement to cite, or is that just your opinion? I was not aware that the team had put him on IR yet. What Troy said last week was that he was looking to return for the Miami game.

sd steel
12-22-2009, 01:38 AM
IMO, it was the short kick off before the onside kick that deserves the most scrutiny. We score 37 points and almost lose!! That's just crazy. Is there any possibility for Troy to come back against the Ratbirds? Please Troy, please get healthy fast. I can't take anymore of the circus clown act we're getting out of your colleagues.

Troy is out for the season.

Do you have an official statement to cite, or is that just your opinion? I was not aware that the team had put him on IR yet. What Troy said last week was that he was looking to return for the Miami game.


I heard Troy would be back this week. As far as the onside kick, which I already said was an awesome call, my 9 year old who is 10 now made that play this year. Everyone on my mitey mite team knows 2 things on kick offs. You can't be offsides, and you can't touch the ball before it goes 10 yards. We onside kick every kick because most kids can barely kick it 15 yards, so the difference in field position normally doesn't matter, and we get the ball about 50% of the time. But we had the exact play happen in our championship game, and my kid had the knowledge to let the ball go the extra yard. I wish I was a video/internet guy, so I could down load it, because it's on tape. The ball hits a high point at about 9 yards, and he sheilds it but doesn't touch it until 10 and a half yards. Pure beauty, and it basically won us a championship. How can Ike Taylor, pro CB not know the situation?

AkronSteel
12-22-2009, 01:45 AM
I thought the call was brilliant!! It was a win-win situation! You either get the ball on the onside or you give your offense enough time to get the ball back and do something with it!!! I'm personally tired of watching the defense give up last second drives this year!!! We have lost games with 15, 14, and 9 seconds left on the clock, plus two OT games!!! Might as well give Ben a chance to win the game in the end!!!