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JAR
12-16-2009, 07:32 PM
good for him. A slump doesn't mean you should start rumors, ~cough cough~ Mike Logan. I really can't believe fans are writing hate mail, my gawd people! If KDKA puts the video up, I'll post it.


Apparently, a Sunday spent watching other teams on TV and then checking the subsequent published accounts -- the Steelers haven’t lost since last Thursday, which afforded ample opportunity for such research -- clued Clark in as to how unfairly the Steelers are being treated locally.

“You watch the Eagles, you watch the big plays,” Clark said. “You watch things given up. And I started checking other media outlets. You don’t hear the things about them in their media that you hear about us. So either we’re held to a higher standards (sic) or the people that write about us are turds.”

“We’re still (the) fourth-ranked defense in the NFL,” Clark said. “And I think it’s becoming increasingly more evident that we are held to a different standard, which is OK.

“I think you do that when you do the things we did last year. But I think what we have to realize and what other people have to realize is the reason we were on the cover of ‘ESPN The Magazine’ as a defense, the reason we were talked about the way we were talked about, because what we did is not supposed to happen.

“Is it impossible to happen again? No. Is it probable? Yeah, no, I mean, yes. It’s probable it can happen, but it’s tough. What we did was special. So as soon as we stop trying to be the ’08 Steeler defense and realize that we’re a different team and we have to go about things in different ways to make plays, and until, I think, we’re stopped being talked about on that level, it’s going to be every week, ‘Are y’all ready for this challenge with the struggles y’all been going through, and this and that?’”

“We just have to go out and play Sunday,” Clark said. “You have to leave that where it is. You gotta leave what happened against these other teams where it is and go out and perform now. It’s about what we’re going to do on this Sunday. We can’t carry that baggage into this game.”

Clark also cited “a bunch” of letters he received from fans, including one that maintained, in a nutshell, “Ryan, you and the defense thoroughly suck."

“When we win, you know, ‘Oh man, we doin’ it for our fans,’” Clark said. “When we lose, you don’t have no fans. It is what it is.”

He acknowledged that, from a player’s perspective, one negative letter or 10 negative letters “doesn’t discount the whole Steeler Nation.

“It doesn’t discount the people in California that send you letters ‘keep your head up, keep playing,’” Clark said. “We know it’s not the whole, it’s the minority.

“I have a bigger problem with y’all printing things about what people have done, and y’all wrong.”

“I’m not going to be depressed,” he insisted. “I’m not going to go home and beat my wife. I’m going to get on my knees every night and pray and thank God for the blessings I have every night, because even though you’re going through some losses, you can’t let this ruin your life, man.”

Remarkably, Clark is the Steelers’ reigning winner of the Chief Award, which has been bestowed since 1988 upon the member of the Steelers’ organization who best exemplifies Art Rooney Sr.’s spirit of cooperation with the pro football writers.

As recently as a couple of weeks ago he poured his heart out to the microphones and minicams while trying to express what he and his teammates were going through during what at the time was only a three-game losing streak.

He only called out one media member -- specifically by name -- at that juncture.

And there was no reference whatsoever to fans turning on the team.

“I kinda gave y’all my soul; never again,” Clark said.

“This year, increasingly, it’s made me realize you have to play for your organization. You have to play for your teammates. You have to play for yourself, for your family. Because the people on the outside, they don’t understand the frustration that you go through. They don’t understand the work that you put into it every day.”



http://pit.scout.com/2/929746.html

Chadman
12-16-2009, 07:37 PM
“We’re still (the) fourth-ranked defense in the NFL,” Clark said

Slightly concerning that he holds on to meaningless stats as a way of justifying the Steelers play.

Clark seems like a nice guy- but seriously, shut up & go out and make plays. Stop telling everyone how the media hurt your feelings- you have more important things going on right now.

Jooser
12-16-2009, 07:41 PM
“We’re still (the) fourth-ranked defense in the NFL,” Clark said

Slightly concerning that he holds on to meaningless stats as a way of justifying the Steelers play.

Clark seems like a nice guy- but seriously, shut up & go out and make plays. Stop telling everyone how the media hurt your feelings- you have more important things going on right now.

:Agree :Clap

The Man of Steel
12-16-2009, 07:58 PM
I don't advocate hate mail from fans but the perception of many is that the Steelers as a team have basically quit so I sort of understand why fans are becoming more hostile and resentful towards the players.

Jigawatts
12-16-2009, 08:05 PM
“We’re still (the) fourth-ranked defense in the NFL,” Clark said

Slightly concerning that he holds on to meaningless stats as a way of justifying the Steelers play.

Clark seems like a nice guy- but seriously, shut up & go out and make plays. Stop telling everyone how the media hurt your feelings- you have more important things going on right now.

:Agree :Clap

They'd be ranked higher in the win column if Clark and some of his buddies learned
to wrap up instead of going for the highlight reel knock out hit every chance they get.

AngryAsian
12-16-2009, 08:19 PM
People forget about stats as long as they see more hash marks under the win column. Of course you guys are going to get some media beatings when you run the table with the toughest schedule in the league and win a championship, only to follow it up with the 6-7 record losing to the crappiest teams on way to a 5 game skid. Take the good with the bad and quit living in the glow of last year. Is it fair to receive hate mail? Nope.... but this is the flip side of the media coin.

JAR
12-16-2009, 08:23 PM
I think mostly what he was bitching about is the rumors people are starting, like Mike Logan. The media ripping them a new one is fine, but starting outright lies is BS.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-16-2009, 08:50 PM
Clark is full of it. If anything, the media here goes easy on the Steelers because they know the Steelers are their meal ticket.

Lets say Ryan Clarks son is a straight A student, until this year, and his report card is full of D's and when he comes home he has no answers at all for why it is full of D's.....does Ryan Clark pat his son on the back and tell him nice effort, you will get them next time, or does he get upset and tell him he better never see D's again and ream him out? Right, so does that make Ryan Clark a fair weather dad cause he KNOWS his son is better than D's?

Well I know the Steelers are better than 6-7 coming back after a Superbowl with the same team minus one CB and one ILB. So STFU Clark and play some ball. Talk with your actions on the field instead of your mouth.

NKySteeler
12-16-2009, 08:58 PM
And the meltdown continues... He will probably catch alot of flack when they take the field this Sunday... God help him after another loss or two, or any blown plays/coverage. Strangely enough, if he'd catch a few passes from the opposing qb and provide adequate coverage this might not have been so bad...

I like the guy, but venting as such (as he's done) never ends well...

fordfixer
12-16-2009, 09:00 PM
Hopefully he uses some of that anger on the Packers this Sunday :tt1

SteelerNation1
12-16-2009, 10:45 PM
...and this strange journey of a season continues... :wft

stlrz d
12-16-2009, 10:57 PM
I agree with Clark. Good for him.

Shoe
12-16-2009, 11:02 PM
Wait, is he saying that he's not playing for the fans anymore? (The writing made it kinda hard to understand what he meant. If so:)

He says he gets on his knees and is thankful for all his blessings... Well (and for the record, I am a Clark fan) maybe he doesn't realize that it is the fans (ALL the fans, good and bad) who allow a man to make millions of dollars playing a game for a living.

Not just the blind supporters; but all. And he needs to also realize that this is something that fans are passionate about... and for many, it is a release--watching Steeler football every Sunday. Part of that release is having the ability to yell, boo, etc. Some (of these paying customers) have the further need to personally express themselves even more it seems, in the form of a letter.

Now, short of threats or actual damage aimed at players, I say anything should go. Again, it's our right to BOO. (And a letter is a form of booing.) I'm sure it doesn't feel good, but he needs to man up.

Taking an adversarial position against your own fan base is bush league.

grotonsteel
12-17-2009, 12:16 AM
“We’re still (the) fourth-ranked defense in the NFL,” Clark said

Slightly concerning that he holds on to meaningless stats as a way of justifying the Steelers play.

Clark seems like a nice guy- but seriously, shut up & go out and make plays. Stop telling everyone how the media hurt your feelings- you have more important things going on right now.

Very well said.... :Clap :Clap

sd steel
12-17-2009, 01:19 AM
“We’re still (the) fourth-ranked defense in the NFL,” Clark said

Slightly concerning that he holds on to meaningless stats as a way of justifying the Steelers play.

Clark seems like a nice guy- but seriously, shut up & go out and make plays. Stop telling everyone how the media hurt your feelings- you have more important things going on right now.

:Agree :Clap

They'd be ranked higher in the win column if Clark and some of his buddies learned
to wrap up instead of going for the highlight reel knock out hit every chance they get.

Flippy, I always love your posts, but no one is thinking "I'm going for a highlight hit", hitting is instinctual. Should they be wrapping up more? Yes, but there is no prethought notion that you are going for the knock out blow. That is why the helmet to helmet penalties are such BS. No doubt we have been tackling poorly this year, but its not because we are trying to hit too hard. It's because we aren't following through on the tackle with fundamentals.

On a side note Clark is out of line, keep your mouth shut and win games, and you won't get hate mail.

hellbanger
12-17-2009, 04:48 AM
I think mostly what he was bitching about is the rumors people are starting, like Mike Logan. The media ripping them a new one is fine, but starting outright lies is BS.

what rumor? I missed it

JTP53609
12-17-2009, 08:28 AM
i cant believe this is a story....the hate mail is bad, but clark is the most overrated steeler on the defense, the fans love his big hits, but i would rather see him try to make a play on a ball first before he goes for the big hit,

Mister Pittsburgh
12-17-2009, 08:45 AM
“We’re still (the) fourth-ranked defense in the NFL,” Clark said

Slightly concerning that he holds on to meaningless stats as a way of justifying the Steelers play.

Clark seems like a nice guy- but seriously, shut up & go out and make plays. Stop telling everyone how the media hurt your feelings- you have more important things going on right now.

:Agree :Clap

They'd be ranked higher in the win column if Clark and some of his buddies learned
to wrap up instead of going for the highlight reel knock out hit every chance they get.

Flippy, I always love your posts, but no one is thinking "I'm going for a highlight hit", hitting is instinctual. Should they be wrapping up more? Yes, but there is no prethought notion that you are going for the knock out blow. That is why the helmet to helmet penalties are such BS. No doubt we have been tackling poorly this year, but its not because we are trying to hit too hard. It's because we aren't following through on the tackle with fundamentals.

On a side note Clark is out of line, keep your mouth shut and win games, and you won't get hate mail.

Really? Anthony Smith ring a bell?

stlrz d
12-17-2009, 09:50 AM
I think mostly what he was bitching about is the rumors people are starting, like Mike Logan. The media ripping them a new one is fine, but starting outright lies is BS.

what rumor? I missed it

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9604 (http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9604)

NC Steeler Fan
12-17-2009, 10:25 AM
Well, I will say this much about Clark as he and Tomlin were miked up for the oakland game and they just ran that episode this weekend on "Sounds of the Game" on NFLN...

Clark was on the sidelines trying as hard as he could to cheer his teammates on the whole game. He kept talking about how last week doesn't matter we just need to go out their do our jobs and have fun. I really felt like he was trying to shake some kind of funk off of the D and get them fired up.

On the one hand, I was glad to see this from him as I genuinely like him. However, I was taken aback that our D appeared to someone on the inside to "need" such motivation.

That part was disconcerting to say the least...

P.S. anyone who writes hate mail to their own team ought to have their head examined.

Steeler Mafia
12-17-2009, 10:28 AM
“We’re still (the) fourth-ranked defense in the NFL,” Clark said

Slightly concerning that he holds on to meaningless stats as a way of justifying the Steelers play.

Clark seems like a nice guy- but seriously, shut up & go out and make plays. Stop telling everyone how the media hurt your feelings- you have more important things going on right now.

:Agree :Clap

They'd be ranked higher in the win column if Clark and some of his buddies learned
to wrap up instead of going for the highlight reel knock out hit every chance they get.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

:Agree 'Nuff Said!

JTP53609
12-17-2009, 11:16 AM
I just read the whole article (before I glanced over it)...the more ryan clark talks the more he annoys me. I did not know that hate mail meant a letter saying "you guys stink". He needs to understand that the Steelers are the most popular entertainment in Pittsburgh, and he plays infront of 65,000 fans and is watched by hundreds of thousands, so of course the play of the team will be critiqued on a weekly basis. I hate when they say "i dont come by your job and tell you what your doing", well my job does not go on tv and it is not entertainment, so of course it is not.....He needs to shut up and just play the game, I hope he does not go to a perenial loser next year or else the media better watch out..
on a side note, do the steelers really keep fan mail as motivation to post on bulletin boards.. and do people actually really write letters to the steelers..

aggiebones
12-17-2009, 11:29 AM
"If anything, the media here goes easy on the Steelers because they know the Steelers are their meal ticket."

Actually this is a BS statement.
There are a few guys maybe that write more peaceful stories, but there are a higher percentage that ride the Steelers very hard considering they are the best franchise in the league.
Come to DC if you want to see a media take it easy. They've finally after 15 years of ugly football, started complaining. They should have burned this city down after the last couple here.
Fact is there's alot of desperate 'media' members in Pittsburgh trying to cling to positions and the only way they can turn heads is to make stuff up and try to blow things out of proportion.
When people's personal lives suck, they seem to find solace in making others suffer, in particular the famous.
I love the US Open cause my golf game ain't the greatest and I enjoy watching them suffer a bit.
We won 2 of the last 4 Super Bowls. How can anyone here complain with a straight face? If this is your first year as a Steeler fan, then yes, that sucks. If not, shut up...to a degree.

flippy
12-17-2009, 11:35 AM
If Clark is not playing for the fans, bench him.

Last game we won, Ty Carter was playing FS.

JTP53609
12-17-2009, 11:39 AM
If Clark is not playing for the fans, bench him.

Last game we won, Ty Carter was playing FS.

:Agree
I cant believe he said that he should play only for his teammates, his family, his organization and himself because "the people on the outside don't understand the frustration you go through."

have fun playing somewhere else next year...

frankthetank1
12-17-2009, 11:45 AM
I have always liked clark but this is poor. man the eff up and dont complain about the fans and media getting on the team. he and the team should worry about winning the next game not about the letter he got from some guy who doesnt like how the team has been playing. how could a pro athlete be so sensative? has he never been heckled at a road game before?

steelsnis
12-17-2009, 11:49 AM
If Clark is not playing for the fans, bench him.

That's crazy talk. I still don't get why people don't understand that the players on the field don't give a rats-azz about the fans. This is a JOB. It's their career. They are playing to make money and impress their bosses, not because some mail-carrier or bus driver or accountant is cheering for them on Sundays.

Mike and Mike on ESPN talk about this a lot. Greenburg always talks about how important the fans are and Golic always calls him an idiot. As a long time NFL player, Golic has said that the players literally NEVER think about the fans and playing for them.

Players don't owe us anything. Nothing. If they aren't playing well or playing hard, then it's up to the coaches, general managers, or ownership to deal with them as they see fit. We as fans have ZERO say in this. And I'm fine with that. I'm not delusional enough to think that my allegiance to the Steelers has any bearing on how many games they win or how hard they play.

We care WAAAAY more about the outcomes of these games than the players on the field do. And that's because unless it's the playoffs or Super Bowl, they always have another game to prepare for. They have to let the last one go and move on. But not us, we hold on to every loss and stew over it until it spews out all over the place in the form of a message board or hate mail or whatever.

Uggh, now I'm just babbling. Sorry for the rant.

frankthetank1
12-17-2009, 11:52 AM
If Clark is not playing for the fans, bench him.

That's crazy talk. I still don't get why people don't understand that the players on the field don't give a rats-azz about the fans. This is a JOB. It's their career. They are playing to make money and impress their bosses, not because some mail-carrier or bus driver or accountant is cheering for them on Sundays.

Mike and Mike on ESPN talk about this a lot. Greenburg always talks about how important the fans are and Golic always calls him an idiot. As a long time NFL player, Golic has said that the players literally NEVER think about the fans and playing for them.

Players don't owe us anything. Nothing. If they aren't playing well or playing hard, then it's up to the coaches, general managers, or ownership to deal with them as they see fit. We as fans have ZERO say in this. And I'm fine with that. I'm not delusional enough to think that my allegiance to the Steelers has any bearing on how many games they win or how hard they play.

We care WAAAAY more about the outcomes of these games than the players on the field do. And that's because unless it's the playoffs or Super Bowl, they always have another game to prepare for. They have to let the last one go and move on. But not us, we hold on to every loss and stew over it until it spews out all over the place in the form of a message board or hate mail or whatever.

Uggh, now I'm just babbling. Sorry for the rant.

very true. if i was a player i most likely wouldnt care about the fans either but clark obviously does. if he didnt need the love from the fans he wouldnt of said what he said. it obviously bothered him. why read any mail from random fans?

JTP53609
12-17-2009, 12:07 PM
If Clark is not playing for the fans, bench him.

That's crazy talk. I still don't get why people don't understand that the players on the field don't give a rats-azz about the fans. This is a JOB. It's their career. They are playing to make money and impress their bosses, not because some mail-carrier or bus driver or accountant is cheering for them on Sundays.

Mike and Mike on ESPN talk about this a lot. Greenburg always talks about how important the fans are and Golic always calls him an idiot. As a long time NFL player, Golic has said that the players literally NEVER think about the fans and playing for them.

Players don't owe us anything. Nothing. If they aren't playing well or playing hard, then it's up to the coaches, general managers, or ownership to deal with them as they see fit. We as fans have ZERO say in this. And I'm fine with that. I'm not delusional enough to think that my allegiance to the Steelers has any bearing on how many games they win or how hard they play.

We care WAAAAY more about the outcomes of these games than the players on the field do. And that's because unless it's the playoffs or Super Bowl, they always have another game to prepare for. They have to let the last one go and move on. But not us, we hold on to every loss and stew over it until it spews out all over the place in the form of a message board or hate mail or whatever.

Uggh, now I'm just babbling. Sorry for the rant.

i agree with frank...obviously they do care what the fans think, if some guy wrote him a letter saying they stink, and he has to use it as motivation to post it on a bulletin board, than I guess fans do have an impact on players....
I hate when ex players or current players say the fans dont matter and are not important. It is true, we have nothing to do with the game, but if there were no fans then there is no buying tickets, jerseys, hats, coats etc. which means the nfl has no money, which means there is no nfl..so i guess we do kind of matter...

NC Steeler Fan
12-17-2009, 12:24 PM
You know, one of the most irritating things about message boards is
how a couple of comments from one person can be taken to the extreme.

First of all, I interpreted Clark's comments to mean that he wasn't playing
for the media as much as opposed to any fans.

And, besides just because a couple of guys outright say they may not play
for the fans, doesn't mean ALL NFL players feel that way.

Hines says he always gives the TD balls to someone in the stands wearing his jersey.

How many times do you hear players and coachs mention "Steeler Nation"?

It's just that these guys are human. They are going to have feelings that they
wear on their sleeves. And, sometimes, being the "Rhodes Scholars" that they
are, they are going to blurt out stuff to the media in sound bites. And, most
times I'll bet, if they are asked about what they said, they usually paint it in
a different context than was originally taken.

So, lighten up. Such talk at times like this often means nothing. A "W" is all
that matters...

Just my :2c

JTP53609
12-17-2009, 12:34 PM
clarks tattling to the media was unnecessary, he did not get hate mail, he got a letter saying that the steelers stink. I dont agree with the letter, but come on, get some thicker skin.

Steeler Mafia
12-17-2009, 01:02 PM
Like someone else previously stated, Man the "F" up! With the product that the Steelers have put on the field, both home and away, in the last 5 games, they have no one to blame but themselves. Hey Ryan, quit trying to put this on the fans or point the finger at someone else. That doens't mean that I condone the letter, but C'mon. What are you, in the 3rd grade? Shut up and do your job! And that goes for the rest of your teammates as well! You all get paid to play football. Most people would kill to get paid to do something they love.

RuthlessBurgher
12-17-2009, 01:18 PM
And, sometimes, being the "Rhodes Scholars" that they
are, they are going to blurt out stuff to the media in sound bites.

Myron Rolle resents this remark. :wink:

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/t2_rolle_bridge.jpg

JTP53609
12-17-2009, 01:26 PM
And, sometimes, being the "Rhodes Scholars" that they
are, they are going to blurt out stuff to the media in sound bites.

Myron Rolle resents this remark. :wink:

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/t2_rolle_bridge.jpg

he is a definite role model for kids to look up to, in addition to being very intelligent, he is a heck of a player..

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-17-2009, 03:53 PM
Sometimes the truth hurts Clark. No matter how much blame you could put on the coaches or injuries...There are players who are not performing up to standard. You watch the films! Who cares If the standard is set high...That's Steeler tradition. I don't care how hard you work in the week...It doesn't end on Friday's practice. Don't deflect...It is what it is...The players as well as the coaches were praised when things were going good...Did ya think it didn't work both ways? Nobody is questioning you don't work hard all week. The Steelers haven't came to work the last 5 games and that is when it counts. You could play better...You could work harder...And if they guy next to you isn't working hard or playing good...Open your mouth! Be a leader! You think you would have noticed you play for the Steelers not the Redskins after all these years!!!

cruzer8
12-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Anyone who takes the time to write that type of letter has serious problems.

:loser

NC Steeler Fan
12-17-2009, 04:35 PM
And if they guy next to you isn't working hard or playing good...Open your mouth! Be a leader! You think you would have noticed you play for the Steelers not the Redskins after all these years!!!

Actually, like I posted earlier, NFLN had Clark and Tomlin miked up for the oakland game
and you would have thought Clark was a one man cheerleading team as much as
he was talking up the D on the sidelines...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-17-2009, 04:53 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2q91dc0b]And if they guy next to you isn't working hard or playing good...Open your mouth! Be a leader! You think you would have noticed you play for the Steelers not the Redskins after all these years!!!

Actually, like I posted earlier, NFLN had Clark and Tomlin miked up for the oakland game
and you would have thought Clark was a one man cheerleading team as much as
he was talking up the D on the sidelines...[/quote:2q91dc0b]

Hey thanks! Does anyone have a like to that? I would love to here that!

sd steel
12-17-2009, 08:37 PM
Slightly concerning that he holds on to meaningless stats as a way of justifying the Steelers play.

Clark seems like a nice guy- but seriously, shut up & go out and make plays. Stop telling everyone how the media hurt your feelings- you have more important things going on right now.

:Agree :Clap

They'd be ranked higher in the win column if Clark and some of his buddies learned
to wrap up instead of going for the highlight reel knock out hit every chance they get.

Flippy, I always love your posts, but no one is thinking "I'm going for a highlight hit", hitting is instinctual. Should they be wrapping up more? Yes, but there is no prethought notion that you are going for the knock out blow. That is why the helmet to helmet penalties are such BS. No doubt we have been tackling poorly this year, but its not because we are trying to hit too hard. It's because we aren't following through on the tackle with fundamentals.

On a side note Clark is out of line, keep your mouth shut and win games, and you won't get hate mail.[/quote:l3pjeekk]

Really? Anthony Smith ring a bell?

Anthony Smith has rung many a bell! But the point I was getting at is it is an instictual thing. Not something you can hold back. But when the timing is right they also have to focus on wrapping up. I wish we still had Smith, I hear he had a big play last week, and he was a ball hawk. Just to much attitude I guess.

RuthlessBurgher
12-17-2009, 11:54 PM
Since we cut him, he's been on 3 teams this year (Green Bay, St. Louis, and Jacksonville). The fact that two other teams cut him this season confirms our decision to not offer him an RFA tender.

sd steel
12-18-2009, 12:50 AM
Since we cut him, he's been on 3 teams this year (Green Bay, St. Louis, and Jacksonville). The fact that two other teams cut him this season confirms our decision to not offer him an RFA tender.

You may be right. He might be too immature and uncoachable, but he is a hitter and a ball hawk. If he finds a home he might eventually turn into a real player. But you are proabaly right regarding the Steelers decision.

feltdizz
12-19-2009, 02:23 PM
Clark needs to grow a pair. Does he really expect sympathy after the D has given up 4 game losing drives... and 3 of those were the worst teams in the league?

I'm not saying he doesn't have a desire to win but the guy needs to understand any SB winning team on a 5 game skid will get criticized.

Shoe
12-19-2009, 09:16 PM
Players don't owe us anything. Nothing.

I respectfully beg to differ. They owe us (the collective that is "the fan") everything. The owners MOST CERTAINLY realize this, if not the player. Granted, they may not go out there and do it for us. But what is the point of playing? 1) MONEY, 2) to win.

Money, you notice, is #1. That's what it (pro football) is all about. If no money was made, then these would just be a collection of big guys gathering at a local park to play.

Put it in another context. Take the sport of MMA (mixed martial arts). Those guys are just now starting to reach big(ger)-time money. Now the merchandising, all the other stuff is starting to come, raising it to true big-time sport.

Up til now, these guys have been extremely approachable, accessible, appreciative of the fans. Why? Because the fans are basically the ones that allowed the sport to stay alive (at some points on life support) to perservere to what they now are.

Those guys could appreciate that, without the fans, they'd be loading palette trucks at Sam's Club, or painting houses, or whatever. Cuz that's what they were doing, to make ends meet in the early days.

NFL guys don't (apparently) recognize this, and it's sad. They don't appreciate.

BURGH86STEEL
12-20-2009, 12:58 AM
Players don't owe us anything. Nothing.

I respectfully beg to differ. They owe us (the collective that is "the fan") everything. The owners MOST CERTAINLY realize this, if not the player. Granted, they may not go out there and do it for us. But what is the point of playing? 1) MONEY, 2) to win.

Money, you notice, is #1. That's what it (pro football) is all about. If no money was made, then these would just be a collection of big guys gathering at a local park to play.

Put it in another context. Take the sport of MMA (mixed martial arts). Those guys are just now starting to reach big(ger)-time money. Now the merchandising, all the other stuff is starting to come, raising it to true big-time sport.

Up til now, these guys have been extremely approachable, accessible, appreciative of the fans. Why? Because the fans are basically the ones that allowed the sport to stay alive (at some points on life support) to perservere to what they now are.

Those guys could appreciate that, without the fans, they'd be loading palette trucks at Sam's Club, or painting houses, or whatever. Cuz that's what they were doing, to make ends meet in the early days.

NFL guys don't (apparently) recognize this, and it's sad. They don't appreciate.

I hate to get into this debate about, "without the fans, they'd be loading palette trucks."
I guess we can say that there are some fans that don't appreciate the players. Without the players, there would be no joy of winning. It is a two way street.

Booing is one thing but I don't agree with nasty letters or comments that fans make to players. I believe this is where this stems from.

Shoe
12-20-2009, 01:11 AM
I hate to get into this debate about, "without the fans, they'd be loading palette trucks."
I guess we can say that there are some fans that don't appreciate the players. Without the players, there would be no joy of winning. It is a two way street.

Booing is one thing but I don't agree with nasty letters or comments that fans make to players. I believe this is where this stems from.

:?:
They (those fans) appreciate the players, by the sheer act of paying the tremendous prices for tickets, apparel, etc. As for the letters/comments, hey man... like I said, people invest a lot in their sports team: not only monetarily, but emotionally.

Frankly, if it wasn't for that emotional investment, people would be much less willing to pay those prices for tickets, jerseys, apparel, mugs, foam fingers, decorating their den, etc. And not coincidentally, that kind of stuff helps pays the player salaries.

So when people have (paid for) that level an emotional investment, shouldn't they have the right to express themselves in any any (allowed by law)?

BURGH86STEEL
12-20-2009, 04:10 AM
I hate to get into this debate about, "without the fans, they'd be loading palette trucks."
I guess we can say that there are some fans that don't appreciate the players. Without the players, there would be no joy of winning. It is a two way street.

Booing is one thing but I don't agree with nasty letters or comments that fans make to players. I believe this is where this stems from.

:?:
They (those fans) appreciate the players, by the sheer act of paying the tremendous prices for tickets, apparel, etc. As for the letters/comments, hey man... like I said, people invest a lot in their sports team: not only monetarily, but emotionally.

Frankly, if it wasn't for that emotional investment, people would be much less willing to pay those prices for tickets, jerseys, apparel, mugs, foam fingers, decorating their den, etc. And not coincidentally, that kind of stuff helps pays the player salaries.

So when people have (paid for) that level an emotional investment, shouldn't they have the right to express themselves in any any (allowed by law)?

No matter how much fans invest, it does not give them the right to belittle or humiliate players. They are people too. Fans can be tough guys in letters or in the stands. Lock them behind a closed door with players and it will be a different story.

I don't think it is right for other fans to belittle or do nasty things to fans of other teams. Do you agree with that too? Do you agree with what happened to the Steelers fan in Chicago? In my mind, that type of behavior is no different.

Another perspective is these players have families. How will you take it if some drunk fan was belittling your son? What if you son called you up one day and said, "Dad, I got a letter from a fan that threatened to burn down my house." How will you feel about that?

They are just coming off a SB victory. I think they should deserve at least some slack for winning the SB. At least not to be written bad or demeaning letters. It is bad enough that our players have to deal with the heckling of other teams fans. They should not have to deal with trashy behavior from their own fans. This is just my take.

I really don't know what to say to people that condone bad behavior. I stay away from fans like that. Don't need to be associated with those actions and negative ways of thinking. After all, football is only a game. My life goes on whether the Steelers win or lose. It would not make me feel better to call a player an a** hole or anything else.

I know that each of the guys on this team has it in them to be champions. It is such ashame that fandom has lead to fans trashing their own players. What ever happened to pulling for the guys when they are down and not having a good season?

stlrz d
12-20-2009, 11:39 AM
I hate to get into this debate about, "without the fans, they'd be loading palette trucks."
I guess we can say that there are some fans that don't appreciate the players. Without the players, there would be no joy of winning. It is a two way street.

Booing is one thing but I don't agree with nasty letters or comments that fans make to players. I believe this is where this stems from.

:?:
They (those fans) appreciate the players, by the sheer act of paying the tremendous prices for tickets, apparel, etc. As for the letters/comments, hey man... like I said, people invest a lot in their sports team: not only monetarily, but emotionally.

Frankly, if it wasn't for that emotional investment, people would be much less willing to pay those prices for tickets, jerseys, apparel, mugs, foam fingers, decorating their den, etc. And not coincidentally, that kind of stuff helps pays the player salaries.

So when people have (paid for) that level an emotional investment, shouldn't they have the right to express themselves in any any (allowed by law)?

No matter how much fans invest, it does not give them the right to belittle or humiliate players. They are people too. Fans can be tough guys in letters or in the stands. Lock them behind a closed door with players and it will be a different story.

I don't think it is right for other fans to belittle or do nasty things to fans of other teams. Do you agree with that too? Do you agree with what happened to the Steelers fan in Chicago? In my mind, that type of behavior is no different.

Another perspective is these players have families. How will you take it if some drunk fan was belittling your son? What if you son called you up one day and said, "Dad, I got a letter from a fan that threatened to burn down my house." How will you feel about that?

They are just coming off a SB victory. I think they should deserve at least some slack for winning the SB. At least not to be written bad or demeaning letters. It is bad enough that our players have to deal with the heckling of other teams fans. They should not have to deal with trashy behavior from their own fans. This is just my take.

I really don't know what to say to people that condone bad behavior. I stay away from fans like that. Don't need to be associated with those actions and negative ways of thinking. After all, football is only a game. My life goes on whether the Steelers win or lose. It would not make me feel better to call a player an a** hole or anything else.

I know that each of the guys on this team has it in them to be champions. It is such ashame that fandom has lead to fans trashing their own players. What ever happened to pulling for the guys when they are down and not having a good season?

People who live vicariously through their team feel as if they "own" the team and can say or do what they wish.

There is a HUGE difference between yelling "Clark, wrap that guy up you idiot!" at your TV and taking the time to draft a letter, printing it out, putting it in an envelope, addressing the envelope, putting a stamp on it and putting it in the mail.

That's a whole different level right there.

http://www.deniro-fans.com/the_fan_picture_robert_de_niro.jpg

Shoe
12-20-2009, 01:55 PM
1) Hey, I'm not saying I'd go as far as to send a letter to a player.

2) No where did I say it would be OK to tell a kid I'm gonna burn his house down.

But if, for example, "a fan" chose to yell "Make a damn tackle you losers, as the players walk by... do I have a problem with that? No. (Would I say it? Probably not.)

If a fan chose send Nick Folk (Dallas' PK who has blown kick after kick this year) a letter saying that he blows and includes an application to UPS... would I do it? No. Would I have a problem with that? Not really.

Because the "end result" of all this passion that the fans have, is the money (i.e. the player salaries). You don't hear this level of fan committment to semi-pro sports, and it shows in terms of the money.

These guys make more in one game check than most of us make in a single year. Think about that. (That fact is so hard for both sides to even comprehend.) It shows the level of fan interest in their game. The player (in this case, Clark) should reflect on this, and what it means.