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SteelCzar76
12-15-2009, 11:24 AM
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations...howId=thedrive

http://stations.espn.go.com/stations...?id=listenlive

http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/espnradio1250/show?showId=thedrive

Mike Logan says that according to his guys still on the team, apparently many in the Locker Room do not believe anything that Tomlin says, the Defense is on edge because of how poorly the offense has played. And it's rumored that Ben outright ignores playcalls.

Hmmm,....i thought i was crazy and or ridiculous for saying for years now that Ben is not a superior QB, we have had a very pedestrian offense in terms of scoring for most of his tenure here, and that Coach Lebeau and the few defensive studs that we have on the roster are and have been the deciding factor as to whether or not we win or lose ?

JAR
12-15-2009, 12:03 PM
It's amazing how a not so good season sets the rumors flying. So they believed in Tomlin last year, they were all so close and even a "band of brothers" Now this year with the same players they don't listen to Tomlin, the defense blames the offense and Ben is a rebel.

JTP53609
12-15-2009, 12:04 PM
your right ben is a pedestrian qb, if you ignore his career 91 qb rating and 2 super bowls (one in which he led them 85 yards in the closing minutes) and countless fourth quarter comebacks, than what you get is an average "scott mitchell" qb. It is a shame we have him on our team, becasue if we would of kept tommy maddox around after that 04 injury than I think we win 3 super bowls instead of 2.....

dont say that he sucked in sb40, he did not have a good game but look at his playoff stats that year....

JAR
12-15-2009, 12:10 PM
your right ben is a pedestrian qb, if you ignore his career 91 qb rating and 2 super bowls (one in which he led them 85 yards in the closing minutes) and countless fourth quarter comebacks, than what you get is an average "scott mitchell" qb. It is a shame we have him on our team, becasue if we would of kept tommy maddox around after that 04 injury than I think we win 3 super bowls instead of 2.....

dont say that he sucked in sb40, he did not have a good game but look at his playoff stats that year....

But he made huge plays when they were needed.

ikestops85
12-15-2009, 12:20 PM
I haven't laughed since last Thursday evening. The original post gave me a big belly laugh. :lol: What absurd ideas. :lol: :lol:

Thanks for finally improving my pissy mood. :Cheers

SteelCzar76
12-15-2009, 12:20 PM
It's amazing how a not so good season sets the rumors flying. So they believed in Tomlin last year, they were all so close and even a "band of brothers" Now this year with the same players they don't listen to Tomlin, the defense blames the offense and Ben is a rebel.

Just "rumors" coming from a guy whom is still good friends with many cats still in the locker room ? Especially in light of the fact that everyone can and could see the rationale for the "alleged" grievances for years ? (Whether some will admit it or not )

( Using my best Nipsey Russell from 'Wilcats' impersonation):

" Riiiiiiiiiight" :lol:

JTP53609
12-15-2009, 12:28 PM
It's amazing how a not so good season sets the rumors flying. So they believed in Tomlin last year, they were all so close and even a "band of brothers" Now this year with the same players they don't listen to Tomlin, the defense blames the offense and Ben is a rebel.

Just "rumors" coming from a guy whom is still good friends with many cats still in the locker room ? Especially in light of the fact that everyone can and could see the rationale for the "alleged" grievances for years ? (Whether some will admit it or not )

( Using my best Nipsey Russell from 'Wilcats' impersonation):

" Riiiiiiiiiight" :lol:

cats, who are we the bengals....by cats do you mean players..

SteelCzar76
12-15-2009, 12:37 PM
It's amazing how a not so good season sets the rumors flying. So they believed in Tomlin last year, they were all so close and even a "band of brothers" Now this year with the same players they don't listen to Tomlin, the defense blames the offense and Ben is a rebel.

Just "rumors" coming from a guy whom is still good friends with many cats still in the locker room ? Especially in light of the fact that everyone can and could see the rationale for the "alleged" grievances for years ? (Whether some will admit it or not )

( Using my best Nipsey Russell from 'Wilcats' impersonation):

" Riiiiiiiiiight" :lol:

cats, who are we the bengals....by cats do you mean players..


Really,.....

JTP53609
12-15-2009, 01:41 PM
I am just in shock that there are actually people who think that Ben Roethlisberger is overrated or just "pedestrian"...do you know that he has the same career passer rating as the great drew brees, he has a far better passer rating than donovan mcnabb, brett favre, troy aikman and many others......
I am fine if you say that there are better quarterbacks, even if he is not in the top 5, but to say he is pedestrian shows how much you really know, the nfl is not through the eyes of your video games. Ben has been getting beat up (granted some is his own doing) and rushed almost every other time he drops back, he has had countless drops this year that would have resulted in easy touchdowns and he is the best at keeping plays alive.
How we have had the bristers, odonnell's, millers, stewarts, tomczacks, grahams and maddox's of the world and yet when we do get a franchise qb, people rat on him and call him pedestrian. You make steeler fans look bad, go boooooo on someone else, become a raven fan if you cant handle things going you way for one year you spoiled brat

feltdizz
12-15-2009, 01:50 PM
I don't think the team turned on Tomlin in one year. But I could see how some
younger DB's could turn on him when Ike and Gay are getting torched.

I don't see how anyone could be surprised Ben is ignoring play calls and doing his own thing. He has 2 rings and a 100 million dollar contract. It's obvious Ben is going to do what he wants.

NW Steeler
12-15-2009, 02:13 PM
I don't think the team turned on Tomlin in one year. But I could see how some
younger DB's could turn on him when Ike and Gay are getting torched.

I don't see how anyone could be surprised Ben is ignoring play calls and doing his own thing. He has 2 rings and a 100 million dollar contract. It's obvious Ben is going to do what he wants.

And if that is the case regarding Ben, then that is all the more reason to get a new OC in Pittsburgh and pull him back to reality. I believe Ben can become a better player, leader and winner with the right OC. I will be shocked if Arians returns next year. There is too much talent on this team to perform the way they have been. It has become painfully obvious that things will not be able to remain status quo going into next season. Tomlin has to make some moves to "send a message" and to improve this team for the future. Like many have said, he has yet to put his "stamp" on this team, even though he won the SB in his second year.

Jigawatts
12-15-2009, 02:43 PM
It's amazing how a not so good season sets the rumors flying. So they believed in Tomlin last year, they were all so close and even a "band of brothers" Now this year with the same players they don't listen to Tomlin, the defense blames the offense and Ben is a rebel.

Just "rumors" coming from a guy whom is still good friends with many cats still in the locker room ? Especially in light of the fact that everyone can and could see the rationale for the "alleged" grievances for years ? (Whether some will admit it or not )

( Using my best Nipsey Russell from 'Wilcats' impersonation):

" Riiiiiiiiiight" :lol:

I wouldn't be surprised if Logan somewhat exaggerated the truth. After all, he does
co-host a radio show which routinely gets whipped in the ratings department by Mark
Madden. I think he may be stirring the pot a bit to drum up some listeners. :stirpot

Nice Nipsey Russell impersonation though. :wink:

cruzer8
12-15-2009, 02:49 PM
What a bunch of complete and utter tripe.

ramblinjim
12-15-2009, 03:09 PM
Ahhh...yes, Ben's a pedestrian quarterback. Let's see how many Superbowl winning quarterbacks are currently in the league.

1.) Brady - yup, he's good
2.) Payton - HOF'er.
3.) Eli - not quite as good as his brother but good QB nonetheless
4.) Warner - probably going to get in the Hall of Fame
5.) Favre - HOF'er
6.) Ben - Pedestrian.

Now who of these have more than one ring?

1.) Brady - HOF
2.) Ben - Pedestrian

If we go back twenty years, we add Troy Aikman, John Elway and Joe Montana to this list (Young only won one as a starter). All three are already in the hall of Fame. If you go back thirty, we add Bradshaw. Phil Simms only played in one Super Bowl or he would go in here as well.

Winning is everything, Ben wins.

As for Logan saying that the team is disgruntled, they should be disgruntled. They're playing like Sheet and getting kicked around by teams that stink. We saw how good Oakland was this last week when they got kicked around by the Redskins and we are pretty sure the Browns probably won't win another game. The guys in that locker room should be disgruntled and they should be worried about their jobs.

eniparadoxgma
12-15-2009, 03:40 PM
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations...howId=thedrive

http://stations.espn.go.com/stations...?id=listenlive

http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/espnradio1250/show?showId=thedrive

Mike Logan says that according to his guys still on the team, apparently many in the Locker Room do not believe anything that Tomlin says, the Defense is on edge because of how poorly the offense has played. And it's rumored that Ben outright ignores playcalls.

Hmmm,....i thought i was crazy and or ridiculous for saying for years now that Ben is not a superior QB, we have had a very pedestrian offense in terms of scoring for most of his tenure here, and that Coach Lebeau and the few defensive studs that we have on the roster are and have been the deciding factor as to whether or not we win or lose ?

I would have paid attention to the above but I didn't have any knitting needles handy.

JTP53609
12-15-2009, 03:42 PM
Ahhh...yes, Ben's a pedestrian quarterback. Let's see how many Superbowl winning quarterbacks are currently in the league.

1.) Brady - yup, he's good
2.) Payton - HOF'er.
3.) Eli - not quite as good as his brother but good QB nonetheless
4.) Warner - probably going to get in the Hall of Fame
5.) Favre - HOF'er
6.) Ben - Pedestrian.

Now who of these have more than one ring?

1.) Brady - HOF
2.) Ben - Pedestrian

If we go back twenty years, we add Troy Aikman, John Elway and Joe Montana to this list (Young only won one as a starter). All three are already in the hall of Fame. If you go back thirty, we add Bradshaw. Phil Simms only played in one Super Bowl or he would go in here as well.

Winning is everything, Ben wins.

As for Logan saying that the team is disgruntled, they should be disgruntled. They're playing like Sheet and getting kicked around by teams that stink. We saw how good Oakland was this last week when they got kicked around by the Redskins and we are pretty sure the Browns probably won't win another game. The guys in that locker room should be disgruntled and they should be worried about their jobs.

dont you know jim, it is not about super bowls, who cares, ben roethlisberger does not look as good as those other qb's and he is not the pretty boy who gets slobbered over on bspn all the time. some fans would much rather have a qb who puts up great numbers and looks good rather than a qb who just wins.....
look at big bens postseason stats compared to peytons (ben has a qb rating that is higher). the all important regular season is what people judge by not the postseason, it is why the sportsworld is getting out of hand, people are married to numbers over the actual play.....

papillon
12-15-2009, 04:16 PM
Ben plays the quarterback position very ugly and that doesn't sit right with those that would rather him drop back and throw as soon as his back foot hits the ground. He scrambles, he holds the ball, he gets sacked, he fumbles, he throws interceptions, he rarely uses the protective slide, he runs right and left and then throws, you name it he does it in an unorthodox manner, but he wins and that isn't good enough for some.

He has deplorable games, he has brilliant games, he has games when he's good and bad in the same game, but in the end, he's won more than games at this point in his career than any other quarterback in history. Doing it once may be lucky, doing it twice makes you think, doing the third time makes it a pattern, doing it the fourth time makes it a trend and in his 6th year he's putting up numbers, but not winning, it happens.

He'll always be considered something less of a quarterback than Brady, Manning, Rivers and Brees by his peers, by the media and by his own fans, I think he's okay with that as long as he wins. This year is an aberration in the winning department.

Pappy

SteelTorch
12-15-2009, 05:03 PM
Guys, why are we even giving this post the attention it doesn't deserve? The OP is obviously a troll. Think about it - he waits until a losing streak to justify his absurd accusations? Not a coincidence.

feltdizz
12-15-2009, 05:37 PM
Ben isn't pedestrian but he damn sure looked like one last game. LOL!!!

I'm sorry but it's so obvious that our pass happy offense isn't working and Ben tends to look really bad if he relies on extending plays instead of throwing the damn ball....

I have no problem with Ben being our franchise but I think we can discuss his shortcomings like rational adults instead of calling everyone a hater or calling Ben a bum...

The problem this year is the D isn't making up for our offensive struggles... it's easy to gloss over a pick or a few sacks when your D is giving the ball right back or scoring themselves....

It's another thing to watch Ben take 8 sacks when it was clear the D was blitzing and the WR's weren't getting open. Whether you like it or not Ben has to demand better OL play and let the OC know this isn't working. The $100 million dollar man needs to act like he is the $100 million dollar man and not act like he has no control over the situation.

This team is begging for Ben to stand up and lead.. and this year I think he just fell back and let the team go to sh!t.

drprwnap
12-15-2009, 05:39 PM
I am just in shock that there are actually people who think that Ben Roethlisberger is overrated or just "pedestrian"...do you know that he has the same career passer rating as the great drew brees, he has a far better passer rating than donovan mcnabb, brett favre, troy aikman and many others......
I am fine if you say that there are better quarterbacks, even if he is not in the top 5, but to say he is pedestrian shows how much you really know, the nfl is not through the eyes of your video games. Ben has been getting beat up (granted some is his own doing) and rushed almost every other time he drops back, he has had countless drops this year that would have resulted in easy touchdowns and he is the best at keeping plays alive.
How we have had the bristers, odonnell's, millers, stewarts, tomczacks, grahams and maddox's of the world and yet when we do get a franchise qb, people rat on him and call him pedestrian. You make steeler fans look bad, go boooooo on someone else, become a raven fan if you cant handle things going you way for one year you spoiled brat


JTP-couldn't have said it better!!! I REMEMBER Terry Bradshaw. I remember Terry was TERRIBLE his first 5 years. Ben is light years ahead of Terry's early carrier. I have LONGED for another franchise QB since TB retired. We finally get one in Ben and people call him pedestrian??? :wft
Bring back Kordell Stewart :stirpot

feltdizz
12-15-2009, 06:13 PM
I am just in shock that there are actually people who think that Ben Roethlisberger is overrated or just "pedestrian"...do you know that he has the same career passer rating as the great drew brees, he has a far better passer rating than donovan mcnabb, brett favre, troy aikman and many others......
I am fine if you say that there are better quarterbacks, even if he is not in the top 5, but to say he is pedestrian shows how much you really know, the nfl is not through the eyes of your video games. Ben has been getting beat up (granted some is his own doing) and rushed almost every other time he drops back, he has had countless drops this year that would have resulted in easy touchdowns and he is the best at keeping plays alive.
How we have had the bristers, odonnell's, millers, stewarts, tomczacks, grahams and maddox's of the world and yet when we do get a franchise qb, people rat on him and call him pedestrian. You make steeler fans look bad, go boooooo on someone else, become a raven fan if you cant handle things going you way for one year you spoiled brat


JTP-couldn't have said it better!!! I REMEMBER Terry Bradshaw. I remember Terry was TERRIBLE his first 5 years. Ben is light years ahead of Terry's early carrier. I have LONGED for another franchise QB since TB retired. We finally get one in Ben and people call him pedestrian??? :wft
Bring back Kordell Stewart :stirpot

pedestrian is a word used to get attention. Over rated could be someone's honest opinion. I know tons of fans of other teams who think Ben is just a lucky/dumb QB with a great defense. I don't think Ben is over rated.. but I do think Steeler fans give him all the glory and none of the blame.

I remember Tommy Gun.. we pulled him off the XFL street and he was a legend.. for 2 years. Why? Because of Kordell and the long list of QB's who stank before him. This doesn't make me feel as though Ben is beyond criticism though.. it just makes me feel as though we finally have a franchise QB who he needs a year off between SB's... doesn't mean I will gush over the down years though. I'm a true Pittsburgh Steeler fan and I will talk about our QB in a heartbeat.

stlrz d
12-15-2009, 09:50 PM
Ben refuses to throw players under the bus and always accepts the blame, even when the blame isn't his.

What a poor leader.

feltdizz
12-15-2009, 10:06 PM
Ben refuses to throw players under the bus and always accepts the blame, even when the blame isn't his.

What a poor leader.


I don't think that is a noble leader IMO. If Ben accepts the blame when he isn't at fault then our staff is ignoring a weakness we can fix. After we beat the Colts and Peyton said "we had protection issues late in the game" everyone said he was a bum for calling his OL out. But WTF!!! It's not calling out the OL it's stating the obvious...

"I tried to reach out to Holmes but he never called me back" -Ben
"Ben never called me" -Holmes

I bet Holmes never forgot that one...

NJ-STEELER
12-15-2009, 11:05 PM
LOL at the defense mad at the offense for playing bad


bruce gradkowski says hello


down by 7 late in the 4th qr,,,the KC chefs say hello

sd steel
12-16-2009, 01:43 AM
First off if any of you guys read the initial post it said that the offense is pedestrian, not Ben. As far as who it came from....Mike Logan played for the Steelers and still has friends on the team. Now is he making stuff up to get ratings? I don't know, but being that he lives in the Burgh and hangs with guys on the team, i don't think he is gonna make stuff up completely. And where there is smoke there is fire.

I like Ben, but he is not a Brees or manning type of leader. In fact the stuff he does with the olineman and during warm ups looks forced in my opinion. When I talked to Kemo in 2007 I think, he basically told be that ben was an egotistical a$$, but that was before they won the Super bowl last year, and Kemo wasn't a starter yet. In fact i had the balls to ask Kemo what he thought about Ben going to each player before every game and shaking a hand or patting a back, and he said something to the extent of the coaches (Cowher, and Whiz) told him to do it. Now just because you win games and even age a couple of years it doesn't all of the sudden make you a leader. Then when I was watching training camp video this year when everyone else is stretching and warming up, 2 guys are screwing around. Yes it was one video, but the only 2 guys not taking part were Ben and Casey. Ever heard of "lead by example"?

You can flame me if you want, but from what I have seen, Ben is not a true leader on this team. He is a great player and a franchise QB who has helped win 2 Super Bowls, but he isn't a leader.

NJ-STEELER
12-16-2009, 02:16 AM
how do you measure leadership in someone. you have a right to your opinion but i think its completely inaccurate


first of all, he hangs out with his OL all the time, and those guys aren't exactly attracting the model types when they go out. does brady and giselle hang with the big uglies on the pats?

egotistical? maybe, i dont really see a starting QB in the league not having a 'big ego' compared to the average O lineman like kemo

he never has blamed anyone but himself after losses, including times when the OL was letting free men unblocked get to him. should he have thrown them under the bus like peyton did after our AFCC? is that a true leader?

does leading a Rah Rah type cheer before the game make brees a "great leader". if so, would you then consider joey porter to be a great leader?


the sound bites in SB hilights show him urging on the OL and offense knowing they would go down and score, in the same clips you can hear miller, kiesel among others say "your awesome, that was incredible" on one of his scramble throws... does that sound like something teammates would do if they thought he was 'egotistical'

should he have tried opting out of that final drive like peyton manning tried to do in the AFCC when the colts won the SB. he had to be told by his center to get on the field and he didn't care if hisn thumb was a bit dinged up...is that what a 'true leader' should do, like you suggested manning to be?

RuthlessBurgher
12-16-2009, 02:20 AM
First off if any of you guys read the initial post it said that the offense is pedestrian, not Ben. As far as who it came from....Mike Logan played for the Steelers and still has friends on the team. Now is he making stuff up to get ratings? I don't know, but being that he lives in the Burgh and hangs with guys on the team, i don't think he is gonna make stuff up completely. And where there is smoke there is fire.

I like Ben, but he is not a Brees or manning type of leader. In fact the stuff he does with the olineman and during warm ups looks forced in my opinion. When I talked to Kemo in 2007 I think, he basically told be that ben was an egotistical a$$, but that was before they won the Super bowl last year, and Kemo wasn't a starter yet. In fact i had the balls to ask Kemo what he thought about Ben going to each player before every game and shaking a hand or patting a back, and he said something to the extent of the coaches (Cowher, and Whiz) told him to do it. Now just because you win games and even age a couple of years it doesn't all of the sudden make you a leader. Then when I was watching training camp video this year when everyone else is stretching and warming up, 2 guys are screwing around. Yes it was one video, but the only 2 guys not taking part were Ben and Casey. Ever heard of "lead by example"?

You can flame me if you want, but from what I have seen, Ben is not a true leader on this team. He is a great player and a franchise QB who has helped win 2 Super Bowls, but he isn't a leader.

But he's lead his team to twice as many Super Bowl titles in his 5 seasons as Peyton and Brees have in their combined 19 seasons. :stirpot

Ben did seem to struggle with being a true leader early in his career (it was discussed on an ESPN E:60 interview a few weeks back), but I think that he has turned a new leaf. He took the entire o-line to Chicago for Hartwig's birthday during the bye week last season, and he had a big get-together with the OL on Ben's boat this summer (I've seen video of these big oafs with Ben on Jetskis and the like). Little things like that...spending time with the fellas...means more for team unity than buying your o-line gold watches or something like that.

JTP53609
12-16-2009, 08:26 AM
i dont by that he is overrated at all either because to be overrated you have to be getting alot of publicity...anytime anyone outside of pittsburgh talks about qb's it is always the big 3 (brees, manning, brady) than they talk about throwing rivers into the grop of elite, you NEVER, EVER hear big ben as one of the elite or best qb's in football, you only hear his name pop up when he is playing in a big game and the commentators say "maybe he should be in the top of the list among qb's"

stlrz d
12-16-2009, 09:44 AM
how do you measure leadership in someone. you have a right to your opinion but i think its completely inaccurate


first of all, he hangs out with his OL all the time, and those guys aren't exactly attracting the model types when they go out. does brady and giselle hang with the big uglies on the pats?

egotistical? maybe, i dont really see a starting QB in the league not having a 'big ego' compared to the average O lineman like kemo

he never has blamed anyone but himself after losses, including times when the OL was letting free men unblocked get to him. should he have thrown them under the bus like peyton did after our AFCC? is that a true leader?

does leading a Rah Rah type cheer before the game make brees a "great leader". if so, would you then consider joey porter to be a great leader?


the sound bites in SB hilights show him urging on the OL and offense knowing they would go down and score, in the same clips you can hear miller, kiesel among others say "your awesome, that was incredible" on one of his scramble throws... does that sound like something teammates would do if they thought he was 'egotistical'

should he have tried opting out of that final drive like peyton manning tried to do in the AFCC when the colts won the SB. he had to be told by his center to get and he didn't care if hisn thumb was a bit dinged up...is that what a 'true leader' should do, like you suggested manning to be?

:Bow :Clap

frankthetank1
12-16-2009, 10:18 AM
Ben refuses to throw players under the bus and always accepts the blame, even when the blame isn't his.

What a poor leader.


I don't think that is a noble leader IMO. If Ben accepts the blame when he isn't at fault then our staff is ignoring a weakness we can fix. After we beat the Colts and Peyton said "we had protection issues late in the game" everyone said he was a bum for calling his OL out. But WTF!!! It's not calling out the OL it's stating the obvious...

"I tried to reach out to Holmes but he never called me back" -Ben
"Ben never called me" -Holmes

I bet Holmes never forgot that one...

peyton did throw his oline under the bus. everyone knew a lot of the loss was the oline's fault. peyton didnt need to announce it to the media. anyone with half a brain could see the oline didnt play well. what good does it do to blame them out in the open? thats not what a leader does

JTP53609
12-16-2009, 10:30 AM
Ben refuses to throw players under the bus and always accepts the blame, even when the blame isn't his.

What a poor leader.


I don't think that is a noble leader IMO. If Ben accepts the blame when he isn't at fault then our staff is ignoring a weakness we can fix. After we beat the Colts and Peyton said "we had protection issues late in the game" everyone said he was a bum for calling his OL out. But WTF!!! It's not calling out the OL it's stating the obvious...

"I tried to reach out to Holmes but he never called me back" -Ben
"Ben never called me" -Holmes

I bet Holmes never forgot that one...

i wonder if ben said that after the time santonio was qouted as saying "usually i have to wait for the ball to come to me" but tonight I had to adjust to the zip on the ball from leftwich....he said that after the washington game last year...

SteelBucks
12-16-2009, 11:40 AM
[url]the Defense is on edge because of how poorly the offense has played.

The defense is PO'd at the offense? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

feltdizz
12-16-2009, 11:52 AM
[url]the Defense is on edge because of how poorly the offense has played.

The defense is PO'd at the offense? Shouldn't it be the other way around?


I know... The D is terrible this year. However the D was our O last year for about 5 games.

sd steel
12-17-2009, 09:05 PM
how do you measure leadership in someone. you have a right to your opinion but i think its completely inaccurate


first of all, he hangs out with his OL all the time, and those guys aren't exactly attracting the model types when they go out. does brady and giselle hang with the big uglies on the pats?

egotistical? maybe, i dont really see a starting QB in the league not having a 'big ego' compared to the average O lineman like kemo

he never has blamed anyone but himself after losses, including times when the OL was letting free men unblocked get to him. should he have thrown them under the bus like peyton did after our AFCC? is that a true leader?

does leading a Rah Rah type cheer before the game make brees a "great leader". if so, would you then consider joey porter to be a great leader?


the sound bites in SB hilights show him urging on the OL and offense knowing they would go down and score, in the same clips you can hear miller, kiesel among others say "your awesome, that was incredible" on one of his scramble throws... does that sound like something teammates would do if they thought he was 'egotistical'

should he have tried opting out of that final drive like peyton manning tried to do in the AFCC when the colts won the SB. he had to be told by his center to get on the field and he didn't care if hisn thumb was a bit dinged up...is that what a 'true leader' should do, like you suggested manning to be?

I went to school where they thought they could teach leadership. Leadership is something that is born into you, or brought on at a very young age. You can teach traits that good leaders have, but it's kind of hollow coming from a person who doesn't have the presence of a leader. Ben was not a leader in high school. He was a great athlete, but the leader of his team was the coaches kid. He could have been somewhat of a leader in college, but I'm betting he was just a great athlete. Whereas you get kids who QB their teams from 10 years old up, and are put in a leadership position at a very young age, and they become great leaders because of years of experience like manning and Brees, or they are leaders in their home because they have a bunch of younger siblings.

Ben isn't a natural leader, and he isn't well liked or a leader on this team.

stlrz d
12-17-2009, 09:53 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":62vswv2a]how do you measure leadership in someone. you have a right to your opinion but i think its completely inaccurate


first of all, he hangs out with his OL all the time, and those guys aren't exactly attracting the model types when they go out. does brady and giselle hang with the big uglies on the pats?

egotistical? maybe, i dont really see a starting QB in the league not having a 'big ego' compared to the average O lineman like kemo

he never has blamed anyone but himself after losses, including times when the OL was letting free men unblocked get to him. should he have thrown them under the bus like peyton did after our AFCC? is that a true leader?

does leading a Rah Rah type cheer before the game make brees a "great leader". if so, would you then consider joey porter to be a great leader?


the sound bites in SB hilights show him urging on the OL and offense knowing they would go down and score, in the same clips you can hear miller, kiesel among others say "your awesome, that was incredible" on one of his scramble throws... does that sound like something teammates would do if they thought he was 'egotistical'

should he have tried opting out of that final drive like peyton manning tried to do in the AFCC when the colts won the SB. he had to be told by his center to get on the field and he didn't care if hisn thumb was a bit dinged up...is that what a 'true leader' should do, like you suggested manning to be?

I went to school where they thought they could teach leadership. Leadership is something that is born into you, or brought on at a very young age. You can teach traits that good leaders have, but it's kind of hollow coming from a person who doesn't have the presence of a leader. Ben was not a leader in high school. He was a great athlete, but the leader of his team was the coaches kid. He could have been somewhat of a leader in college, but I'm betting he was just a great athlete. Whereas you get kids who QB their teams from 10 years old up, and are put in a leadership position at a very young age, and they become great leaders because of years of experience like manning and Brees, or they are leaders in their home because they have a bunch of younger siblings.

Ben isn't a natural leader, and he isn't well liked or a leader on this team.[/quote:62vswv2a]

Ha...info (articles, stories on ESPN, NFLN, etc) from last season and this season pretty much dispel that belief.

Sorry.

sd steel
12-17-2009, 10:16 PM
[quote="sd steel":2r4krde6][quote="NJ-STEELER":2r4krde6]how do you measure leadership in someone. you have a right to your opinion but i think its completely inaccurate


first of all, he hangs out with his OL all the time, and those guys aren't exactly attracting the model types when they go out. does brady and giselle hang with the big uglies on the pats?

egotistical? maybe, i dont really see a starting QB in the league not having a 'big ego' compared to the average O lineman like kemo

he never has blamed anyone but himself after losses, including times when the OL was letting free men unblocked get to him. should he have thrown them under the bus like peyton did after our AFCC? is that a true leader?

does leading a Rah Rah type cheer before the game make brees a "great leader". if so, would you then consider joey porter to be a great leader?


the sound bites in SB hilights show him urging on the OL and offense knowing they would go down and score, in the same clips you can hear miller, kiesel among others say "your awesome, that was incredible" on one of his scramble throws... does that sound like something teammates would do if they thought he was 'egotistical'

should he have tried opting out of that final drive like peyton manning tried to do in the AFCC when the colts won the SB. he had to be told by his center to get on the field and he didn't care if hisn thumb was a bit dinged up...is that what a 'true leader' should do, like you suggested manning to be?

I went to school where they thought they could teach leadership. Leadership is something that is born into you, or brought on at a very young age. You can teach traits that good leaders have, but it's kind of hollow coming from a person who doesn't have the presence of a leader. Ben was not a leader in high school. He was a great athlete, but the leader of his team was the coaches kid. He could have been somewhat of a leader in college, but I'm betting he was just a great athlete. Whereas you get kids who QB their teams from 10 years old up, and are put in a leadership position at a very young age, and they become great leaders because of years of experience like manning and Brees, or they are leaders in their home because they have a bunch of younger siblings.

Ben isn't a natural leader, and he isn't well liked or a leader on this team.[/quote:2r4krde6]

Ha...info (articles, stories on ESPN, NFLN, etc) from last season and this season pretty much dispel that belief.

Sorry.[/quote:2r4krde6]


Sorry, met him, no one is gonna throw the 100 million dollar QB under the bus. Nice guy...maybe, great athlete obviously, great leader, no and you will hear alot more about it in the coming days months and years.

Sugar
12-17-2009, 10:34 PM
If BB isn't a Leader then whatever your concept of a leader is can't be all that important. Just sayin'...

sd steel
12-17-2009, 10:44 PM
If BB isn't a Leader then whatever your concept of a leader is can't be all that important. Just sayin'...

Why is that? So was Ben a leader in 2005 when we won the Super Bowl? Just because ben is a good QB and a great athlete, it doesn't make him a good leader of men.

stlrz d
12-17-2009, 10:46 PM
[quote="stlrz d":3fqmdwnl][quote="sd steel":3fqmdwnl][quote="NJ-STEELER":3fqmdwnl]how do you measure leadership in someone. you have a right to your opinion but i think its completely inaccurate


first of all, he hangs out with his OL all the time, and those guys aren't exactly attracting the model types when they go out. does brady and giselle hang with the big uglies on the pats?

egotistical? maybe, i dont really see a starting QB in the league not having a 'big ego' compared to the average O lineman like kemo

he never has blamed anyone but himself after losses, including times when the OL was letting free men unblocked get to him. should he have thrown them under the bus like peyton did after our AFCC? is that a true leader?

does leading a Rah Rah type cheer before the game make brees a "great leader". if so, would you then consider joey porter to be a great leader?


the sound bites in SB hilights show him urging on the OL and offense knowing they would go down and score, in the same clips you can hear miller, kiesel among others say "your awesome, that was incredible" on one of his scramble throws... does that sound like something teammates would do if they thought he was 'egotistical'

should he have tried opting out of that final drive like peyton manning tried to do in the AFCC when the colts won the SB. he had to be told by his center to get on the field and he didn't care if hisn thumb was a bit dinged up...is that what a 'true leader' should do, like you suggested manning to be?

I went to school where they thought they could teach leadership. Leadership is something that is born into you, or brought on at a very young age. You can teach traits that good leaders have, but it's kind of hollow coming from a person who doesn't have the presence of a leader. Ben was not a leader in high school. He was a great athlete, but the leader of his team was the coaches kid. He could have been somewhat of a leader in college, but I'm betting he was just a great athlete. Whereas you get kids who QB their teams from 10 years old up, and are put in a leadership position at a very young age, and they become great leaders because of years of experience like manning and Brees, or they are leaders in their home because they have a bunch of younger siblings.

Ben isn't a natural leader, and he isn't well liked or a leader on this team.[/quote:3fqmdwnl]

Ha...info (articles, stories on ESPN, NFLN, etc) from last season and this season pretty much dispel that belief.

Sorry.[/quote:3fqmdwnl]


Sorry, met him, no one is gonna throw the 100 million dollar QB under the bus. Nice guy...maybe, great athlete obviously, great leader, no and you will hear alot more about it in the coming days months and years.[/quote:3fqmdwnl]

And now we know why.

Obviously the meeting didn't go like you hoped so now it's all negative from you regarding Ben.

sd steel
12-17-2009, 10:50 PM
[quote="sd steel":3peha7he][quote="stlrz d":3peha7he][quote="sd steel":3peha7he][quote="NJ-STEELER":3peha7he]how do you measure leadership in someone. you have a right to your opinion but i think its completely inaccurate


first of all, he hangs out with his OL all the time, and those guys aren't exactly attracting the model types when they go out. does brady and giselle hang with the big uglies on the pats?

egotistical? maybe, i dont really see a starting QB in the league not having a 'big ego' compared to the average O lineman like kemo

he never has blamed anyone but himself after losses, including times when the OL was letting free men unblocked get to him. should he have thrown them under the bus like peyton did after our AFCC? is that a true leader?

does leading a Rah Rah type cheer before the game make brees a "great leader". if so, would you then consider joey porter to be a great leader?


the sound bites in SB hilights show him urging on the OL and offense knowing they would go down and score, in the same clips you can hear miller, kiesel among others say "your awesome, that was incredible" on one of his scramble throws... does that sound like something teammates would do if they thought he was 'egotistical'

should he have tried opting out of that final drive like peyton manning tried to do in the AFCC when the colts won the SB. he had to be told by his center to get on the field and he didn't care if hisn thumb was a bit dinged up...is that what a 'true leader' should do, like you suggested manning to be?

I went to school where they thought they could teach leadership. Leadership is something that is born into you, or brought on at a very young age. You can teach traits that good leaders have, but it's kind of hollow coming from a person who doesn't have the presence of a leader. Ben was not a leader in high school. He was a great athlete, but the leader of his team was the coaches kid. He could have been somewhat of a leader in college, but I'm betting he was just a great athlete. Whereas you get kids who QB their teams from 10 years old up, and are put in a leadership position at a very young age, and they become great leaders because of years of experience like manning and Brees, or they are leaders in their home because they have a bunch of younger siblings.

Ben isn't a natural leader, and he isn't well liked or a leader on this team.[/quote:3peha7he]

Ha...info (articles, stories on ESPN, NFLN, etc) from last season and this season pretty much dispel that belief.

Sorry.[/quote:3peha7he]


Sorry, met him, no one is gonna throw the 100 million dollar QB under the bus. Nice guy...maybe, great athlete obviously, great leader, no and you will hear alot more about it in the coming days months and years.[/quote:3peha7he]

And now we know why.

Obviously the meeting didn't go like you hoped so now it's all negative from you regarding Ben.[/quote:3peha7he]

No, it went rather well, but he didn't have a presense about himself, and after talking to his teammates and seeing what they thought of him, and then seeing him not leading by example in training camp, and now hearing reports from ken laird and Mike Logan, it's pretty easy to see that he is not a great leader. Just because he hangs out with the lineman doesn't make him a leader, it makes him a buddy.

Sugar
12-17-2009, 10:55 PM
If BB isn't a Leader then whatever your concept of a leader is can't be all that important. Just sayin'...

Why is that? So was Ben a leader in 2005 when we won the Super Bowl? Just because ben is a good QB and a great athlete, it doesn't make him a good leader of men.

And I am simply saying that if he isn't a leader, what does it matter? By many accounts Brian Griese has great leadership skills, so what??

To me, the fact that the guy doesn't publicly crap on his teammates even when they deserve it is pretty high character- whether that's "leadership" or not is perhaps in the eye of the beholder.

stlrz d
12-17-2009, 11:23 PM
If BB isn't a Leader then whatever your concept of a leader is can't be all that important. Just sayin'...

Why is that? So was Ben a leader in 2005 when we won the Super Bowl? Just because ben is a good QB and a great athlete, it doesn't make him a good leader of men.

And I am simply saying that if he isn't a leader, what does it matter? By many accounts Brian Griese has great leadership skills, so what??

To me, the fact that the guy doesn't publicly crap on his teammates even when they deserve it is pretty high character- whether that's "leadership" or not is perhaps in the eye of the beholder.

Don't you get it? He met him and there was no "presence" and his teammates revealed things to some fan they don't even know...and then two radio talk show hosts say some things that jive with is perception so they are automatically true.

RuthlessBurgher
12-18-2009, 12:12 AM
Youngest QB to win a Super Bowl.

Most wins in his first 50 starts of any QB in history.

Only non-cheating active QB with multiple Super Bowl rings, and he's done it in just 5 seasons.

Peyton and Brees are great passers, no doubt. But together they have half as many titles as Ben in their 19 combined seasons.

I don't care what you call it...maybe it's "moxie" instead of "leadership" per se...but I want my QB to have it.

sd steel
12-18-2009, 12:27 AM
[quote=Sugar]If BB isn't a Leader then whatever your concept of a leader is can't be all that important. Just sayin'...

Why is that? So was Ben a leader in 2005 when we won the Super Bowl? Just because ben is a good QB and a great athlete, it doesn't make him a good leader of men.

And I am simply saying that if he isn't a leader, what does it matter? By many accounts Brian Griese has great leadership skills, so what??

To me, the fact that the guy doesn't publicly crap on his teammates even when they deserve it is pretty high character- whether that's "leadership" or not is perhaps in the eye of the beholder.

Oh and thanks for correcting my spelling.

Don't you get it? He met him and there was no "presence" and his teammates revealed things to some fan they don't even know...and then two radio talk show hosts say some things that jive with is perception so they are automatically true.[/quote:1afhg0q9]


Why do you have a problem with my perception of Ben? If you don't agree, that's fine. I'm just telling you what I think. I agree he is a great athlete, and he has won 2 Super Bowls for my favorite team, and I think he is a main reason why we have gotten to the next level. That being said, I think there is room for alot of improvement, and I think he needs to work harder, and I don't think he is a big leader on this team.

feltdizz
12-18-2009, 05:46 PM
He is called Big Ben because he played well on game day...
however his work ethic was always in question the other 6 days....

When you make 100 mill the finger will always get pointed at you...
Ben understands this but the fans of Ben do not.

frankthetank1
12-18-2009, 05:52 PM
He is called Big Ben because he played well on game day...
however his work ethic was always in question the other 6 days....When you make 100 mill the finger will always get pointed at you...
Ben understands this but the fans of Ben do not.

there have been a ton of great players that were known for half hearted effort in practice. allen iverson the most recent. who cares though? its practice

feltdizz
12-18-2009, 07:18 PM
He is called Big Ben because he played well on game day...
however his work ethic was always in question the other 6 days....When you make 100 mill the finger will always get pointed at you...
Ben understands this but the fans of Ben do not.

there have been a ton of great players that were known for half hearted effort in practice. allen iverson the most recent. who cares though? its practice

practice? PRACTICE??? LOL!!

No one questioned AI about practice when they went to the finals..

but when they were losing.... it was all about practice.

stlrz d
12-18-2009, 10:49 PM
[quote="sd steel":3mt7t4p5][quote=Sugar]If BB isn't a Leader then whatever your concept of a leader is can't be all that important. Just sayin'...

Why is that? So was Ben a leader in 2005 when we won the Super Bowl? Just because ben is a good QB and a great athlete, it doesn't make him a good leader of men.

And I am simply saying that if he isn't a leader, what does it matter? By many accounts Brian Griese has great leadership skills, so what??

To me, the fact that the guy doesn't publicly crap on his teammates even when they deserve it is pretty high character- whether that's "leadership" or not is perhaps in the eye of the beholder.

Oh and thanks for correcting my spelling.

Don't you get it? He met him and there was no "presence" and his teammates revealed things to some fan they don't even know...and then two radio talk show hosts say some things that jive with is perception so they are automatically true.[/quote:3mt7t4p5]


Why do you have a problem with my perception of Ben? If you don't agree, that's fine. I'm just telling you what I think. I agree he is a great athlete, and he has won 2 Super Bowls for my favorite team, and I think he is a main reason why we have gotten to the next level. That being said, I think there is room for alot of improvement, and I think he needs to work harder, and I don't think he is a big leader on this team.[/quote:3mt7t4p5]

I wasn't correcting your spelling, I was quoting you.

As for what you believe about Ben, I don't have an issue about that. It's the way you express it that I disagree with.

There's a difference between "I feel Ben has room to improve" and "he's not a leader, he never will be, etc".

Get me?

sd steel
12-18-2009, 11:53 PM
Get me?


Not really. Just because I don't state it in terms that you like, you feel the need to comment on all of my posts? If you don't agree or don't like what I write, feel free to ignore it. That's what I do to your posts.

stlrz d
12-19-2009, 01:01 AM
[quote="stlrz d":3sgeljzu]Get me?


Not really. Just because I don't state it in terms that you like, you feel the need to comment on all of my posts? If you don't agree or don't like what I write, feel free to ignore it. That's what I do to your posts.[/quote:3sgeljzu]

Which is why you keep responding...because you're ignoring.

sd steel
12-19-2009, 03:59 AM
[quote="sd steel":10bxwvy2][quote="stlrz d":10bxwvy2]Get me?


Not really. Just because I don't state it in terms that you like, you feel the need to comment on all of my posts? If you don't agree or don't like what I write, feel free to ignore it. That's what I do to your posts.[/quote:10bxwvy2]

Which is why you keep responding...because you're ignoring.[/quote:10bxwvy2]

No, I ignore your intitial posts because it is obvious that you don't know anything about football. But when you reply to me, I feel the need to defend my self. Like I posted before, you are a bandfag. Your knowledge of the game is weak, and I still believe that not only did you not play, you are probably from Canada. You jumped on a bandwagon. You live in Green Bay!

stlrz d
12-19-2009, 07:55 AM
[quote="stlrz d":2qa868yu][quote="sd steel":2qa868yu][quote="stlrz d":2qa868yu]Get me?


Not really. Just because I don't state it in terms that you like, you feel the need to comment on all of my posts? If you don't agree or don't like what I write, feel free to ignore it. That's what I do to your posts.[/quote:2qa868yu]

Which is why you keep responding...because you're ignoring.[/quote:2qa868yu]

No, I ignore your intitial posts because it is obvious that you don't know anything about football. But when you reply to me, I feel the need to defend my self. Like I posted before, you are a bandfag. Your knowledge of the game is weak, and I still believe that not only did you not play, you are probably from Canada. You jumped on a bandwagon. You live in Green Bay![/quote:2qa868yu]

Have another one. Daddy didn't love you so you went in the Army to prove to him you were a man and it didn't matter. So now you spend your nights drinking and posting hateful things about our QB because you met him once and he didn't have a "presence". Which really means he wouldn't sign his rookie card for you because he figured you were one of those losers who pushes kids out of the way to get autographs so you can sell stuff on eBay. And you're jealous because his daddy cares about him...and yours doesn't care about you.

[youtube:2qa868yu]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zN6MxLYB8hM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zN6MxLYB8hM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube:2qa868yu]

sd steel
12-19-2009, 11:44 AM
[quote="sd steel":3q6pq23a][quote="stlrz d":3q6pq23a][quote="sd steel":3q6pq23a][quote="stlrz d":3q6pq23a]Get me?


Not really. Just because I don't state it in terms that you like, you feel the need to comment on all of my posts? If you don't agree or don't like what I write, feel free to ignore it. That's what I do to your posts.[/quote:3q6pq23a]

Which is why you keep responding...because you're ignoring.[/quote:3q6pq23a]

No, I ignore your intitial posts because it is obvious that you don't know anything about football. But when you reply to me, I feel the need to defend my self. Like I posted before, you are a bandfag. Your knowledge of the game is weak, and I still believe that not only did you not play, you are probably from Canada. You jumped on a bandwagon. You live in Green Bay![/quote:3q6pq23a]

Have another one. Daddy didn't love you so you went in the Army to prove to him you were a man and it didn't matter. So now you spend your nights drinking and posting hateful things about our QB because you met him once and he didn't have a "presence". Which really means he wouldn't sign his rookie card for you because he figured you were one of those losers who pushes kids out of the way to get autographs so you can sell stuff on eBay. And you're jealous because his daddy cares about him...and yours doesn't care about you.

[youtube:3q6pq23a]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zN6MxLYB8hM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zN6MxLYB8hM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube:3q6pq23a][/quote:3q6pq23a]


Huh??? :shock: :lol: No I just think you're a dork who doesn't know much about football.

cruzer8
12-19-2009, 12:10 PM
I think you're both fools for carrying on with this BS and I wish you'd take it somewhere else.

But at least he's funny.

Jooser
12-19-2009, 05:44 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/neonstitches/mr-t.gif http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c385/astorix/mr-t.gif

:D

RuthlessBurgher
12-19-2009, 06:18 PM
That reminds me of something Demetri Martin would put on his Large Pad.

http://www.scq.ubc.ca/filter/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/drawing-mountains.jpg

http://content8.flixster.com/photo/99/02/41/9902418_tml.jpg

[youtube:2q80mhqo]9IbhWG2LLAA[/youtube:2q80mhqo]

Jooser
12-19-2009, 06:44 PM
:D nice

so basically, according to your graph, the more time we have to spend on the forum, the more we tend to make mountains out of mole hills? :idea:

RuthlessBurgher
12-20-2009, 01:10 AM
:D nice

so basically, according to your graph, the more time we have to spend on the forum, the more we tend to make mountains out of mole hills? :idea:

Or the more time we spend on this forum, the more Mr. T pities us fools. :mrgreen: